I've always heard that it's a fool who tempts the GM.
"This dungeon is a cakewalk! Those monsters are trash! I am invincible!"
That's the equivalent to asking for a tarrasque to get dropped on you.
But at some level, isn't it part of good GMing to let the players feel like badasses? Should a GM interpret this style of boasting as a call for increased difficulty, or allow players to feel like BAMFs for a bit?
I guess my question boils down to, "Is it better to quash overconfidence or stoke player egos?"
It's a mix. You have to know your players. Many of us game as a release from the stresses of life. We need to unwind. Need to make sure evil loses. So getting a tarrasque (and several other Spawn of Rovagug) dropped on our heads isn't gonna do that. It's a cooperative game.
Flip side, it can sometimes be annoying to the GM and/or other players.
One thing of note: the way some RPGs are designed, you level up and face tougher foes, level up, do it again. You really don't get to revel in your power often. You don't get to find your old rival and show them just how powerful you really are (Insert World Made of Cardboard Speech here). Which I feel is sometimes a failing. Once in a while, you really need to see how far you've come. Remember when a +1 shield was great treasure. How you feared that barbarian because he hit you for 16 damage and you had 22 hp...now he can't touch you.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know it's tempting, but smiting your players might get you in trouble with the law . . . .
|
It's a mix. You have to know your players. Many of us game as a release from the stresses of life. We need to unwind. Need to make sure evil loses. So getting a tarrasque (and several other Spawn of Rovagug) dropped on our heads isn't gonna do that. It's a cooperative game.
Flip side, it can sometimes be annoying to the GM and/or other players.
One thing of note: the way some RPGs are designed, you level up and face tougher foes, level up, do it again. You really don't get to revel in your power often. You don't get to find your old rival and show them just how powerful you really are (Insert World Made of Cardboard Speech here). Which I feel is sometimes a failing. Once in a while, you really need to see how far you've come. Remember when a +1 shield was great treasure. How you feared that barbarian because he hit you for 16 damage and you had 22 hp...now he can't touch you.
I agree its something that always bothered me about the levelling system of enemies in computer games. If your always facing a tough challenge you never actually feel heroic or that your effort is worth something. Sure the occasional goblin raid's a cakewalk for a 12th level party but it gives that contrast that feeling you have actually grown in power. Similar effect can be achieved by a "boss monster" that your party struggled to beat showing up again later in a group. It may still be a tough fight but if its a tough fight against an orc and then a tough fight against eight orcs you can reminiss about how when just one of them was a serious threat to the party.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
^65 million boars at 2XP apiece, for 8 weeks . . . .
^65 million boars at 2XP apiece, for 8 weeks . . . .
Ah. High level in Elden Ring, farming Hefty Beast Bones I see....
My preference as GM is to set a difficult task for the players and then be happy for them when they (hopefully) finally succeed. I can’t remember it ever happening, but if the players want to boast about their achievements (especially if it is in character) then it should be encouraged.
It doesn’t bother me if someone focuses on one thing like defense. It bothers me more when they manage to min max so much that they are top at everything. The game is meant to be cooperative.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
A good GM does not look at the players as advisories; he looks at them as audience for his art. His job is to entertain them by developing interesting stories for their character. After a game session the players should be excited and happy.
Creating encounters is a delicate balance that is actually pretty difficult to do. An encounter can server a lot of different purposes in the campaign. Some of them should be fairly easy for the player to accomplish, while others should seem to be nearly impossible to accomplish. The actual encounter may not be that important, but it leads to something that is important. It could be that one of the targets in the encounter has something that provides a clue. Other times it is just to add a bit of excitement to the game. These types of encounters are fairly common, and the purpose of them is to advance the story and keep the player entertained.
Other encounters are designed to major highlights of the story. These encounters are designed to test the characters and should seem incredibly tough. If the GM is good at his job he can make an encounter that is fairly hard seem nearly impossible to accomplish, so when the players do prevail at the end they look back with a major sense of accomplishment. This requires knowing both the players and the character fairly well. This type of encounter is the most difficult to create, but is the height of the GM’s art.
In the first type of encounter the player will often be bragging and joking. This is fine because it shows they are enjoying the game. They also build up suspense and give the players a sense of actually being heroes. The second type of encounter will give the players a sense of accomplishment and pride. If every encounter is the second type they lose value and instead of being something special they become the norm. When that happens, the campaign becomes boring.
Throwing a tarrasque at a player who is bragging is the sign of a poor GM. Any idiot can throw a monster that can kill the party outright. To me that only proves the GM’s incompetence. It takes a skilled GM to craft an encounter that is going to challenge both the players and the characters. Often a particular player will often not live up to the characters potential. So, while the character might be able to handle the encounter the player struggles with it.
I was going to comment further and saw that Mysterious Stranger pretty much nailed it.
I just take that kind of comment as them asking for something more challenging. I don't dump massively more powerful creatures on them. I subtly tweak the fights and tactics of the monsters to better challenge that particular player.
As far as squashing overconfidence or stroking egos? I'm all for the stroking of ego. The fall is that much more satisfying when the player built themselves up all by themselves.
One of my favorite sayings to highly armored characters at lower levels: "Your AC means nothing when you are too weak to carry all that armor."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Player: "My character is invincible."
Me: "Prove it. Roll initiative."
I've only had that happen on one occasion. Way back in a 2e D&D game I was asked to be a guest DM by a friend. I hadn't even gotten set up before one of the players told me, "Just want to let you know this party can't be killed. We're too good as players and we have magic blahdee blahdee blah...".
One died in the first round and they all got mad and stalked out. I wasn't even trying to kill anyone but was just feeling out their capabilities with a couple of traps and a low-level monster encounter.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Player: "My character is invincible."
Me: "Prove it. Roll initiative."I've only had that happen on one occasion. Way back in a 2e D&D game I was asked to be a guest DM by a friend. I hadn't even gotten set up before one of the players told me, "Just want to let you know this party can't be killed. We're too good as players and we have magic blahdee blahdee blah...".
One died in the first round and they all got mad and stalked out. I wasn't even trying to kill anyone but was just feeling out their capabilities with a couple of traps and a low-level monster encounter.
It sounds like they and the GM were a bit into a rut. Things were easy because the opposition was always the same.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bleed them dry with Tucker's Kobolds and bathe in their tears!
@Mark Hoover. Someone should tell your rogue player to get a dagger. Also you can hold a bow in your off hand while fighting one-handed. You don’t necessarily have to drop it. Sometimes you do, but a lot of times not.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Important distinction to make. Is it the player saying this, or the character?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Important distinction to make. Is it the player saying this, or the character?
Life isn't fair (for the character). The character suffers due to the actions and choices the player makes. They also succeed and thrive based on those same choices.
If some of the player say: I'm invincible " my gm will only say: the day become dark and in front of you there is a huge golem but in reality is the god Gorum, and he tell you: for so long I was waiting for a challenge come on let's do this to the death ;)
If the GM needs to use a god or a tarrasque the player’s bragging might have some justification. If I GM cannot challenge the players without resorting to that level of threat either something is really wrong, or the GM is lacking.
My post was a joke, but I i tell somethin I will go like this: for me the gm is another player in the game only that he got more power, he can create monster with the same CR of the party but can change the builds and the strategy to kill the pc, of course takin in consideration that give a chance to the PC to kill them but they must find the way to do it of and try to see what the gm is thinking it's like playing chess
The First Blade, and a pack of Zentragt might be a fun challenge for an appropriately leveled group. Not all stories feature Gorum that strongly though.
If some of the player say: I'm invincible " my gm will only say: the day become dark and in front of you there is a huge golem but in reality is the god Gorum, and he tell you: for so long I was waiting for a challenge come on let's do this to the death ;)
Do we have Gorum stats? I now want Gorum stats.
Do we have Gorum stats? I now want Gorum stats.
The First Blade is Gorum’s herald. Stats for it are in Inner Sea Gods.