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63 posts. Alias of Kysune.


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Lady-J wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.

certain gods can change your paladin code of conduct there may be one out there that allows you to use underhanded tactics

Don't really want to go off-topic with this. I don't want to mess with multiple PFS GM's interpretations of the Paladin and what is "valid" and not that they try to require atonement for breaking the Paladin's Code of Conduct. It's semi annoying as a regular Paladin, it's a headache throwing in a Rogue/Ninja into it. I'm not interested.

Now maybe switching my 1 Cleric level to Fighter or Barbarian would be interesting. The question is would I be getting more out of 1-3 levels of Barbarian or Fighter than the 1 level from Cleric and the rest in Ninja? I need to have 8 levels of Ninja/Scout for the "Skirmisher" ability to synergize with Spring Attack.

Edit: The remaining feats I was planning to pick up with the next 3 levels of Ninja/Scout is "Offensive Defense" rogue talent, Invisible Blade ninja trick, and Hunter's Surprise rogue talent.

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Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.

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I'm willing to redesign my character with changing the 1 level of Cleric possibly. The big bonus from Cleric was the +10 move speed from the Travel domain. I wasn't sure if the Rage ability from Barbarian would stop me from using Ki powers.

And yeah, the Scout ability to deal sneak dmg after moving 10ft is a big game changer and coupled with Spring Attack I'd be able to get sneak attacks off the majority of the time. My thought was even though I can Spring Attack, the enemy can always charge and catch me with an attack, so the Heavy Armor was a means to help prevent myself from eating a +2hit charging power attack after spring attacking the enemy and moving away. Maybe Heavy Armor wasn't the best option?

To help with Spring Attack synergy I think the Cleric's Travel domain and the Barbarian were the two biggest options since they both provided a +10 move speed.

Also, my goals for the next couple of levels was to get Offensive Defense, Cornugon Smash, Invisible Blade, and Hunter's Surprise. Any other good feat options or better off dipping elsewhere?

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Thanks for the suggestions guys. Any other gear suggestions anyone can think of?

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Bane Wraith wrote:

Edit: Disclaimer; Not a PFS player.

Stupid question... but for PFS, would you benefit from something which (Partly for fluff & flavor's sake) inhibits the sound your armor makes? Otherwise consider a material or something that reduces its armor check penalty or benefits your stealth. So you can be sure to benefit from invisibility and stealth as you progress into higher levels.

The character is a different take on a "Samurai" as she dashes in, swings hard, and then dashes out. Striking at vital points. I was not too impressed with the Samurai class presented in Ultimate Combat and felt that I could maybe make a better "Samurai" this way.

The Vanishing Tricks is just there to hopefully provide "cover" to quickly retreat or to get sneak attacks when a flank is not possible. Also, my stealth is a 0 (1 rank + dex & class skill bonus offsetting the -6 from Heavy Armor and Shield).

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Hey all,

Been gone a while but just came back and trying to find out how to continue onward with my Rogue.

Class/Level - 8 (Ninja/Scout 7 + Crusader Cleric 1)
Race – Half-Orc

Traits:

* Fate’s Favored
* Acrobat
* Darkvision 60ft
* Sacred Tattoo: +1 luck bonus to saves
* Orc Blood
* City Raised: +2 Knowledge Local

Languages:

Common, Orc, Tien, Ancient Osiriani, Ancient Thassalonian, Undercommon, Giant, Abyssal

Stats at 8th level:

Str: 18 (+2 racial included)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Saves:

Fort: 10
Reflex: 11
Will: 8

Levels so far:

1) Ninja 1: Bab +0 | Dodge (lvl 1)
2) Ninja 2: Bab +1 | Ninja Trick: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Katana)
3) Ninja 3: Bab +2 | Power Attack (lvl 3)
4) Ninja 4: Bab +3 | Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick, +1 Str
5) Ninja 5: Bab +3 | Mobility (5)
6) Ninja 6: Bab +4 | Ninja Trick: Combat Trick Spring Attack
7) Crusader Cleric 1: Bab +4 | Furious Focus (lvl 7), Heavy Armor Prof (Crusader)
8) Ninja 7: Bab +5 | +1 Str

Gear:

Cloak of Resistance +2
Boots of the Cat
Swarmbane Clasp
+2 Katana
+1 O-yoroi
+1 Heavy Darkwood Shield

Reason I took 1 level of Cleric:

+2 to Fort/Will saves
Luck Varient Channels 5/day
Travel Domain: +10 move speed, Agile Feet 3/day
Crusader Feat: Heavy Armor Proficiency
Cantrips and ability to cast Cleric spells from Divine Scrolls.

So now I'm currently at 61hp, 25 AC, 10 Fort, 11 Reflex, 8 Will, 5 uses of Vanishing Tricks, and 4d6 Sneak Attack while Power Attacking at no penalty.

What suggestions for next levels and especially what suggestions for gear? I'm at 7901 gold and I don't have a lot of equipment. Could really use some suggestions since I've been gone from PFS for about a year or more.

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Does True Seeing negate all bonuses from the spell Blink? I know it negates the +2 attack bonus but does True Seeing remove the miss chance penalty for melee attacks and targeted spells?

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Just a quick question but if you had the Brilliant Energy enchantment on a sword couldn't you suppress the magic for a round to be able to "turn off" the Brilliant Energy enchantment? Or is it just perma on once the weapon has been enchanted with it?

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*bump* Any suggestions?

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Class – Unbreakable Fighter 1 / Master of Many Styles 10
Race – Halfling
Traits -
* Helpful
* Fate’s Favored

Weapon - Scimitar
Armor - Mithral Breastplate (should count as light armor for Evasion.)

Stats -
Str: 14 (-2 added)
Dex: 16 (+2 added)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 9 (+2 added)
10, 5, 5, 0, 0, -4

1) Unbreakable 1: Bab +1, Cautious Fighter (lvl 1), Die Hard (Unbreakable), Endurance (Unbreakable)
2) Monk 1: Bab +1, Crane Style (monk 1), Improved Unarmed Strike (monk), Stunning Fist (monk), +1hp fcb
3) Monk 2: Bab +2, Power Attack (lvl 3), Crane Wing (monk 2), Evasion (monk), +1hp fcb
4) Monk 3: Bab +3, +1 Str, Maneuver Training (monk), Still Mind (monk), +1hp fcb
5) Monk 4: Bab +4, Stalwart (5), +1hp fcb
6) Monk 5: Bab +4, Purity of Body (monk), +1hp fcb
7) Monk 6: Bab +5, Risky Striker (lvl 7), Crane Riposte (monk), +1hp fcb
8) Monk 7: Bab +6/+1, +1 Str, +1hp fcb
9) Monk 8: Bab +7/+2, FREE (lvl 9), +1hp fcb
10) Monk 9: Bab +7/+2, Improved Evasion (monk), +1hp fcb
11) Monk 10: Bab +8/+3, Improved Critical: Scimitar (lvl 11), Improved Disarm (monk), +1hp fcb

Wearing a Mithral Breastplate I will lose Fast Movement and Wisdom bonus to AC but it should provide more protection and I should be able to still use Evasion.
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[/spoiler]
Using a 1 handed Scimitar with the other hand free to block an attack and make an AoO against someone that misses me. Power Attack & Risky Striker should tear through large or bigger opponents. I'm able to fight defensively at all times at a -1 penalty to hit for 5/- DR. Maybe I should take Deflect Arrows since I'm keeping 1 hand free?

I believe the class combo is perfect, but I may be missing some key feats or I may have missed or arranged the feats wrongly. Any advice?

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graystone wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:
graystone wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:


So I've been pondering for a while on playing a Halfling character with the -10 penalty (instead of -20) alternate racial trait to snipe while stealthed. This has led me to want to play a high Dex, low Str stealth class in PFS and make it work decently.
Look at the Far Strike Monk. At 3rd level, you get Invisible Blade that makes sniping stealth checks a -10 instead of -20. Combined with the Halfling ability Swift as Shadows that reduces sniping penalties by 10, and you get 0 minuses to sniping. ;)
Yeah, I know. Except I'm stuck with thrown weapons which means I throw a bunch of mundane cheap weapons or I throw 2 weapons total with the returning property since any after that would drop at my feet when they return. Throwing weapons are pretty subpar in general and I already have a rope dart Far Strike Monk.
Why are you stuck with thrown weapons? You can take a crossbow oriented class + 3 levels of monk. You gain 2 ranged feats, the sniping buff, an unarmed attack and good saves and only lose 1 BAB. No flurry? No big deal IMO.

True, good thinking. I'll have to see what I can come up with on that.

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graystone wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:


So I've been pondering for a while on playing a Halfling character with the -10 penalty (instead of -20) alternate racial trait to snipe while stealthed. This has led me to want to play a high Dex, low Str stealth class in PFS and make it work decently.
Look at the Far Strike Monk. At 3rd level, you get Invisible Blade that makes sniping stealth checks a -10 instead of -20. Combined with the Halfling ability Swift as Shadows that reduces sniping penalties by 10, and you get 0 minuses to sniping. ;)

Yeah, I know. Except I'm stuck with thrown weapons which means I throw a bunch of mundane cheap weapons or I throw 2 weapons total with the returning property since any after that would drop at my feet when they return. Throwing weapons are pretty subpar in general and I already have a rope dart Far Strike Monk.

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How about 8 levels of Bolt Ace Gunslinger & 3 levels of vanilla Slayer? Or would it be better if I just went 5 Gunslinger and 6 Slayer? The Sniper archetype doesnt seem to really bring anything that I couldn't do with the Assassin Scope.

Full BAB between Gunslinger and Slayer.

Thinking that may work well. I could use Gravity bow to deal 2d6, 19-20 x3 crit. Take Improved Critical at 9th level, get Holy enchantment on the xbow and do something like.

2d6+9 + 2d6holy + 1d6 or 3d6 sneak attack on surprise round, 17-20 x3

A full round attack would be something like 2d6+9 + 2d6holy / 2d6+9 + 2d6holy / 2d6+9 + 2d6holy / 2d6+9 + 2d6holy at 11th level. That's based on having a +1 Holy Xbow with a 24dex and including Point-Blank Shot. Which would come out to 16d6+36dmg (with 17-20, x3 crit) on a full attack, not including any Sneak Attack damage.

Would 5 or 8 levels of Bolt Ace and rest Inquisitor be a better choice? They both would rely on Dex and Wis so that may work well?

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I don't really see Stealthing while Running as useful in PFS but it sounds fun. Would it be worth it to go Half-Elf to gain access to using wands and scrolls on a Wizard spell list without a UMD check? Taking the Elven Spirit feat at 1st level doesn't really put me behind because I'd be picking up Skill Focus: Stealth anyways to gain Hellcat Stealth later.

Halfling - able to snipe and stealth much better.
Half-Elf - able to use Wizard scrolls & spells, able to stealth while running.

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Well, I could take the Half-Elf race and take the Alt racial trait "Arcane Training" to use Wizard wands without a UMD check. And also take Elven Spirit at 1st level as a feat to pickup "Silent Hunter" alt racial trait (reduce Stealth penalty by 5 when moving full speed and able to run while stealthed at -20 penalty). It would grant me access to use Gravity Bow and Reduce Person without having to multiclass. I'd be able to pickup Skill Focus: Stealth with Half-Elf also. I'd be a bit behind on the stealth check compared to a Halfling though.

Not sure if Gravity Bow and some of the other Wizard Spells would be worth it to go Half-Elf over Halfling.

EDIT: I did forget that Slayer can pickup Ranger Combat Styles so that would be perfect to take the Xbow Combat Style via Slayer Talents.

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Arachnofiend wrote:

The Sniper Slayer is the best you'll get for this... I don't remember how, though. There was an errata for the archetype that replaced Deadly Range with something more useful for 1-shot-1-kill sniping but my search-fu is too weak to find it.

Don't get your hopes up, I don't think it was something that made the build actually viable.

You mean this? Slayer errata for ACG

The Ranged Tactics Toolbox has the Sniping (normal +5 competence bonus to Stealth 1,875gp, improved +10 7,500gp, greater +15 16,875gp) enchantment for Sniping while Stealthed.

It also contains "Assassin's Sight" which for 5k allows you to set your Xbow from 0-30ft SA range to 30-60ft SA range. Allowing you to Sneak Attack anything within that range increment that you set your Assassin's Sight to. There's also a Greater Assassin's Sight which has 3 ranges (0-30, 30-60, 60-90) and gives a +4 competence bonus on attack rolls to confirm crit hits within the set range. Both of these Sights can only be mounted to the stock of a light or heavy Xbow.

All the above is legal for PFS.

EDIT: So the Sniper Slayer gets a bonus equal to their level in damage on the first attack that the enemy is unaware of them. He also gets the ability to SA within his 1st range increment, which is a tad better than the Assassin's Sight that takes a full-round action to adjust the range increment it's set to, or a standard action for the Greater Assassin's Sight. Not sure I'm sold on the Slayer, maybe someone can persuade me further?

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B. A. Robards-Debardot wrote:

I think I need to know a few things first, so that we can get the optimum fun for you whether or not its super optimized for DPR.

The first question I have for you is this, "Why do you want to snipe?"

That is are you expecting a mechanical benefit or do you just want to be stealthy for your character concept. I ask this, because most people use sniping to catch enemies flat-footed so they can sneak attack. As such there are only a few classes that really benefit a lot from the sniping.

The second question, "How married are you to the crossbow?"

Sadly crossbows aren't as awesome in Pathfinder as they are in real life. Archery with bows on the other hand tends to be one of the deadliest combat styles around.

The third and often most underlooked question, "What do you want to do when you're not shooting things?"

Does your character bring any out of combat skills to the party? are you a sneaky fellow who disable traps, pick locks? are you a master hunter who lies in wait for his prey, knowledgeable about many creatures? Do you protect the innocent, prowl the night?

1) Why do you want to Snipe? I play in PFS, but I thought it would be interesting to be at a 30-160ft range and pepper enemies without them knowing where the damage is coming from. Allowing me to continue shooting while the enemy is clueless where I'm at. I understand this isn't the most optimal approach in PFS though.

2) How married are you to the crossbow? Well, I want high stealth and most classes end up spreading a 20pt stat buy a little thin. I figured going Xbow would allow me to dump Str and focus on Dex more. I absolutely do not want to be a Zen Archer.

3) What do you want to do when you're not shooting things? Initially I thought I'd go with a Trapsmith Rogue or a Trapper Ranger to find traps and disable mechanical/magical traps or unlock things even though there's not a ton of traps in PFS. Not always someone around that can do that so at least I'd have that covered as a side.

I would say the feeling I want out of the character is a Stalker. I was initially debating on an Elf with the alt racial trait to Stealth while Running at a -20 penalty (which is impossible normally) or a Halfling that has only a -10 penalty to staying hidden at range and Sniping.

I'm pretty open on ideas but I'm not so sure on the Gunslinger options.

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Hey all,

So I've been pondering for a while on playing a Halfling character with the -10 penalty (instead of -20) alternate racial trait to snipe while stealthed. This has led me to want to play a high Dex, low Str stealth class in PFS and make it work decently.

So my question is, "How do you make a Crossbow user work the best in PFS?"

Originally I considered the Farstrike Monk as they reduce the sniping penalty an additional -10, to a 0 penalty...but the issue with thrown weapons is once you throw them you no longer have them to throw again. Also, the other two problems are that thrown weapons generally aren't far range (10-40ft generally) and if the weapon returns (Returning enchantment) then you get it back at the end of turn which means you can't flurry with it, leaving you with common mundane weapons to throw during a flurry or a very expensive wardrobe of weapons.

So, I decided Xbow would probably be the option that would fit best but I didn't know what class would work better. Some classes that come to mind that would work well - Xbow Fighter archetype, Sohei Monk, Inquisitor, and Ranger.

What class would work best? I would want to stealth and snipe during combat so that would be my primary focus. Class and build suggestions please?

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Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

Also, have a few buff spells handy, because both schools have types of enemies that are broadly immune to you.

So, since you can't enchant vermin, be ready with an enlarge person or a haste.

Any campaign details? That might help...

PFS actually. I could pickup Threnodic Spell or Coaxing Spell, albeit they both increase the spell level by 2. Lesser Rod of Threnodic costs 9k but doesn't seem like there's a metamagic rod for Coaxing. Maybe there's some options to be able to affect undead or vermin/oozes via Sorcerer Bloodlines or something else?

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Nyaa wrote:

Both suck. Blasting also sucks unless you are 11+.

Have you read Treantmonk's guide to wizards?

Yes, I've read that. I'm not playing a Wizard exactly though and although Treantmonk went long lengths to draw out the guidelines for what is most optimal, it can be fun at times to go outside of realm of building the same thing every time. With that said, I'm wondering which of Necromancy and Enchantment are typically better and which one is probably best to make as one of my Opposition Schools as a School Savant Arcanist.

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Hello,

Curious as to what people think is the stronger Arcane spell list from 1st - 6th level spells. Take into consideration of using Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter traits on one spell within either of these schools to add metamagic.

My character focus: Blasting is nice and I may have a few spells selected to do some big numbers but I'm looking to focus on some spells that really mess some monsters up.

I'm currently not sure if the Dominate, Charm, Confusion, etc route is the way to go or if something more like Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion, Vampiric Touch, Fear, etc route would be better. I can grab Reach meta rods or take the Reach metamagic feat and apply for free via Magical Lineage if needed.

I'm just looking to have a caster that has a different feel from the 90% that cast fireball and magic missles all day.

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Chris Mortika wrote:

In both cases, the archetype reduces the effects of Smite Evil, weakening it. In each case, the archetype then enjoys other benefits as compensation. It seems that you want to apply that reduction once but enjoy both of the compensatory powers.

(And I'm suggesting that we move this out of the PFS forums.)

This is a question in regards to PFS ruling specifically. I do not think this should be moved elsewhere.

I do see what you mean about enjoying two benefits with the reduction of one. Your point stands.

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It's very unfortunate then, as you'd think if they both altered it to the same thing it would be an exception. So much for my thought on a Positive Channeling focused Paladin (Sacred Servant would have offset the reduced channel dice from Hospitaler, while Hospitaler would have provided channels per day without having to burn precious Lay on Hands for them.) :(

Both archetypes still give up features of Paladin so the combination isn't broken by any means. Just would have been a fun combo.

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Really curious on whether Hospitaler and Sacred Servant can be combined. The only things that they overlap or both replace is Smite Evil which they both change it to the SAME thing

Sacred Servant -
Smite Evil (Su): This functions as the paladin ability, but the sacred servant can smite evil one additional time per day at 7th level, and every six levels thereafter (instead of 4th level and every three levels thereafter). This replaces smite evil.

Hospitaler -
Smite Evil (Su): This functions as the paladin ability, but the hospitaler can smite evil one additional time per day at 7th level, and every six levels thereafter (instead of 4th level and every three levels thereafter).

Since they don't alter anything else and since what both of them change is to the EXACT same thing. Can these two archetypes be combined?

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Rodinia wrote:
Will you mostly fight archery style, or will you mostly fight with a polearm? It usually works best to commit mostly to one or t'other. Although switch hitting is a thing, where you can do both but aren't quite as good at either as is a specialist. What's your objective?

Main objective is to be able to use AoO's to get strikes on advancing enemies and to UMD (or 100% success on Wizard wands) buffs on myself with my standard action. If I went MotSM, instead of whipping a bow out I could fall back on casting 2nd-4th level spells from scrolls with no issue (Thanks to Arcane Training) to fight at range. I believe 2 prestige gives you 4-5 Scorching Rays on 1 scroll, could do likewise with other spells.

I mainly want to focus on using my Reach weapon though I think, like a Reach Cleric. Backing off with a 5ft step or acrobatics check and using my standard to use wands or scrolls. Then getting AoO's from my Reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. Grabbing an Improved Familiar I've get another standard per turn to UMD a wand to buff myself or allies.

I also want to focus on Disarming unarmed, taking the -4 penalty, to grab the enemies weapon and either drop it in my square so they can't pick it up or 5ft back and later toss it towards my team. The Lore Warden gives a little boost to combat maneuvers and by 7th level the Lore Warden bonuses negate the -4 penalty to "snatch" the weapon from the enemy.

Thats my main focus I think. Reach combat with a familiar and UMD focus for buffs and ranged combat if forced to.

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Avoron wrote:

I think it really depends on how often you expect to need to use a bow.

I would personally probably go with Monk of the Sacred Mountain to become more effective at defense. And if you want to have better unarmed strike damage, Monastic Legacy requires still mind. And two or three monk levels as opposed to four means better weapon training progression.

But if you want to focus somewhat on fighting with ranged weapons, Zen Archer is definitely the way to go.

Thanks for your input. I was off a little on the Zen archer but the site was down yesterday when I tried to edit it. I would only need a 2 level dip in Zen Archer for the Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus: Composite Longbow, and Perfect Strike (which gives me 2 uses a day or at level 10, 2 Zen & 8 Lore Warden, I would have 4 uses a day).

If I wanted to not provoke when shooting a bow I'd dip 3rd level, but I'm more than capable of fighting in melee so I don't think I really need Point Blank Mastery. 4th level dip doesn't really give me much to really matter.

I'm also no sure how I feel about the Monastic Legacy feat. It bumps my unarmed strike damage from 1d6 to 1d8 at 10th level (2 monk levels + (8 lore warden levels / 2) = treated as a 6th level monk for unarmed strike)

I do have access to the Wizard spell list, without having to UMD wands, so I can easily use Gravity Bow & Enlarge Person (buy large arrows and I'm shooting 3d6+3 per arrow). Alternatively, I have access to lots of great melee buffs from the Wizard list also. Not sure how useful I'd be at range without all the free Zen Archer feats.

MotSM I've got the two bonus feats, which I could get Combat Reflexes and Dodge, and in place of Evasion I get +1AC natural armor bonus and free Toughness feat. Which with Zen Archer my bonus feats are tied up getting Precise Shot and Rapid Shot.

Anyone else care to suggest which Archetype I should dip 2 levels in? Zen Archer or Monk of the Sacred Mountain?

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I've been playing around with going straight 11 levels of Fighter and I'm after much messing around I'm still seeing a ton more benefits by dipping Monk.

I'm planning on using a 2handed reach weapon, so Imp Unarmed Strike lets me use feats like Step up effectively. I see controversy and table variation with getting AoO's from Spiked Armor against archers and casters, especially after I used my turn to attack and my hands are occupied. Regardless, it's just easier if I have the Monk's Imp Unarmed Strike as it states legs, knees, and head can be used, so I safely threaten 5ft and 10ft at all times.

I get 2 bonus feats, great boost to all my saves, and some Monk archetypes offer some really good bonuses. I could use some help weighing the bonuses though of a few archetypes. I plan on taking between 2-4 levels in Monk and the rest Fighter. I've narrowed it down to two archetypes.

1) Zen Archer:
Everyone's favorite overpowered Monk archetype. Taking Zen Archer would allow me to be an effective switch hitter with zero effort. Screw Flurry of Blows, lets wear Light Armor and pickup Rapid Shot.
1st level - Take Precise Shot and I get Free Perfect Strike which I can use even in armor.
2nd level - Take Rapid Shot...and avoid having to waste a feat on PBShot. I also get free Weapon Focus: Longbow.
3rd level - Ignore Zen Archery, I don't have the stats for it. I also get free Point Blank Mastery.

As you can see it's worth a 4 level dip into Zen Archer which leaves me with 7 levels in Lore Warden. I become excelent at 5ft and 10ft threatening and I'll have Step Up to make their life miserable and with Zen Archer I'm now able to do plenty of damage while staying in the back if needed.

2) Monk of the Sacred Mountain:
Replaces Evasion with Toughness and a +1 natural armor bonus. Two things that will constantly help me stay alive longer. My bonus feats can go towards Combat Reflexes and Dodge, which saves me from having to spend a Fighter feat on Combat Reflexes.

Both archetypes lose Evasion, Zen Archer loses Still Mind. Which archetype would you take?

My stats so far are:
Str: 16 (racial +2 included)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 13 (qualify for Imp Disarm)
Wis: 10
Cha: 12 (+1 at 4th level to qualify for Eldritch Heritage)

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Jorin wrote:

Understood. I was just giving my reasoning. I rarely make a build with dips. When I do it is only 1. I think I've used 2 levels 1 time. When I get to 3 or more, I'm never happy with it. If I'm taking 3 levels in something else, I'm pretty obviously not happy with the class I started building from. So if I'm not happy with it, why continue the build at all? I'll just do something different.

A few weeks ago a guy was proposing a warpriest build. It had 2 (or 4) levels of monk, 1 (or 3) levels of fighter, and 3 levels of magus. So his 11th level warpriest build had only 3 levels of warpriest. Yes, it got a bunch of swift action and low level buffs. But other than that it wasn't really good at anything. He gave up the higher level powers on 4 classes to get some decent synergy on the low level powers. Plus it wasn't really good at the 'thing' it was designed for until about level 8, when PFS retires at level 12. I would never have been happy with the character.

I completely understand what you mean. I was wanting to make 100% fighter that could act as a swiss army knife with wands and scrolls. Don't have a Cleric or a Wizard in a PFS scenario? No problem, just UMD a wand of CLW to heal an ally or a wand of Create Pit against that ridiculously hard to kill robot.

I thought about using a regular reach weapon, but they are all two-handed. Which stops me from being able to get AoO's after pull out a scroll or wand and activating that spell. The whip seemed useful as it only takes up 1 hand and I've got the extra fighter feats to do it. Plus I can still attack and get AoO's at 5ft while still threatening 10ft, and I can attack at 15ft without the Lunge feat.

I figured since I'm taking advantage of using a 1handed weapon and keeping a hand open for wands or scrolls I may as well have Deflect Arrow. Ranged attacks are somewhat common in PFS but if I come in contact with an enemy Alchemist that uses bombs I've already won. Being able to deflect a 6d6 bomb once a turn is great. I was wondering if I should go for Snatch Arrow feat also so I could, as an immediate action, throw that arrow, handaxe, or bomb right back at the bad guy.

Grabbing evasion seemed like a smart choice though. I've seem a lot of people drop due to multiple fireballs. Couple scenarios ago my monk avoided about 50dmg from two successful Reflex saves vs fireballs.

I'm thinking I could grab a familiar still if I went with the below stats -

Str: 16
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 14
Wis: 8
Cha: 13

If I lower Int down from 14 to 12 I have to emulate a 13 or 14 int score to use 3rd or 4th level Wizard spell wands, which means there's now a chance of failure for 3rd-4th wizard wands.

This drops my Will save down 2 points but I guess I could spend my 2nd trait on "Focused Disciple" or "Indomitable Faith" to help my Will save. Also, the 2 level Monk dip adds a +3 to Fort/Reflex/Will saves which is a nice boost for a Fighter. Which maybe you (Jorin) and Imbicatus didn't notice earlier in addition to the 2 free feats and Evasion that Monk gives me?

The Exchange

Jorin wrote:

Personally I'm usually not a big fan of dips into other classes. Maybe 1 level if really needed. But not usually the 2 or 3 levels. You start losing too much of the primary class. Granted the main thing in the fighter class is feats and you have a bunch of those. So fighter is probably one of the few where I would consider more levels of something else, but I still probably wouldn't do it.

If I really want wand wielder from a few levels of magus, why not a few more to get the familiar for another arcana? At that point you are mostly a magus, why not just go all magus? {shug} It is a personal choice.

Well, I think there's some faults here. I'm not wanting to build a magus exactly. I'm wanting a full BAB fighter that is an "Arcane Pretender" similar to one of the NPC's in the NPC Codex book. If I go 6 levels of Magus for the Familiar, I have to continue to 7th just so I can get a decent improved familiar.

Going this route would be tempting to just go Human for the bonus Skill Focus from Focused Study and getting my +1hp per level back from FCB's (Since the reason for H-Elf was to gain access to a Wizard Spell List, going Magus I just get theirs). But doing that my Arcane Strike is stuck at 7th level and my Familiar doesn't improve past 7th level. Only way to fix either of those is to go full Magus, so then I'm a 3/4 BAB class, with half the feats a Fighter would have, less skill points per level, and no Weapon Training 1 or 2. I think this really throws me away from my original concept also, which I don't like.

The Exchange

Imbicatus wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what the monk levels are giving you, and why you are taking whip mastery when you only have proficiency in the scorpion whip.

If you really want to be a whip master, and want to excel at wand use, I would drop the monk levels, and dip Magus 3, and take the Wand Wielder arcana. True Strike on command will make sure your whip maneuvers will work.

Monk levels are giving me the following -

1) Deflect Arrows - knock away 1 arrow, thrown weapon, or bomb each turn that is thrown at me as long as I have 1 hand free. I'll be wielding a whip in 1 hand and the other free to grab a wand (spring-loaded wrist sheath) or grab a scroll from a handy haversack.

2) Combat Reflexes - works great with a whip since I threaten both 5ft and 10ft with Imp Whip Mastery.

3) Evasion - still works in Light armor. Take no damage if you succeed your reflex save, giving me a chance to avoid some damage from AoE spells like Fireball, elemental breath attacks, etc.

~~~~~~~~~

Adventure's Armory says "Scorpion Whip - If you are proficient with Whips, you are proficient with a Scorpion Whip" 1d4dmg, x2 crit, Slashing dmg, Disarm/Trip/Reach". I guess I could list my feats for just Whip and not Scorpion Whip since Whip Mastery will let me do lethal damage with them. Scorpion whip does 1dmg more though. I would argue that proficiency in whip and feats in whip count also for scorpion whip.

Whip Mastery is needed for Improved Whip Mastery, simple enough. Imp Whip Mastery lets me threaten 5ft and 10ft, which lets me use the Combat Reflexes that I picked up from Monk to get up to 3-4 AoO's a turn.

~~~~~~~~~

Magus 3 level dip suggestion - So if I dip 3 levels in Magus I pick up Wand Wielder arcana then during a full-round attack I activate a wand along with my full attack. Since my Magus caster level is only 3 my concentration check is horrible but since I'm using a whip, at 10ft or 15ft range, there's no need to make a concentration check. If I'm attack at 5ft would I need to concentrate with a wand? I know wands don't provoke AoO's. This seems like a good idea. I'm missing the free Combat Reflexes and Snatch Arrow feat from Monk and also losing Evasion though. Anyone else want to advise which they think is better? The 2 level monk dip or the 3 level magus dip?

The Exchange

Sorry ElterAgo, I guess I didn't lay out the questions very well. Here:

What are some solutions to gaining Eldritch Heritage without destroying my character? I guess I'd remove the trait Clever Wordplay, what are some good replacement traits that would compliment this character?

1) "Would a trip build be less effective than having a Familiar? I feel like going the Trip build may be trapping myself for some rough PFS scenarios with those immune to trip."
2) "How could I fix my stats to get a 13 Charisma without destroying my Fighter's stats?"
3) "Is it worth the cost of 3 feats and upping Charisma to 13 to gain a familiar?"
4) "Is there some other great feat options that would work for this build instead of taking 3 feats for Trip or 3 feats for a Familiar?"

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Just talked to one of my local PFS friends and he caught a few errors with my latest build. Going the 2 traits to dump Charisma and get UMD as a class skill I'm not able to qualify for Eldritch Heritage.

Updated H-Elf UMD Fighter:

Class – 9 Lore Warden / 2 Monk
Race – Half-Elf

Traits -
* Clever Wordplay (use Int mod instead of Cha mod for UMD)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 to UMD & it's a class skill)

Alt Racial Traits –
* Arcane Training - Favored Class Wizard, can use spell trigger & spell completion items for FC as a 1st-level wizard.
* Ancestral Arms – EWP: Whip
**Elven Spirit Feat – use feat to take Envoy racial trait: Gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf's level. This racial trait replaces elven magic. (this opens up Arcane Strike at full caster level)

Stats -
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 added)
Con: 12 (-2 added)
Int: 14 (+2 added)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Elven Spirit (lvl 1), Acestral Arms: EWP Scorpion Whip (H-Elf), Weapon Focus: Scorpion Whip (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, Whip Mastery (fighter), Combat Expertise (lore warden)
3) Monk 1: Bab +2, Skill Focus: UMD (lvl 3), Deflect Arrows (monk), FoB (monk), Stunning Fist (monk), Improved Unarmed Strike (monk)
4) Monk 2: Bab +3, +1 Str, Combat Reflexes (monk), Evasion (monk)
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Improved Trip (5)
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Improved Whip Mastery (fighter)
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Greater Trip (lvl 7)
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Str, Fury’s Fall (fighter)
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Power Attack (lvl 9)
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Arcane Strike (fighter)
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, Improved Initiative (lvl 11)

At Level 11 -
Me: 79hp (Assuming my Con is still 12)
Looking at roughly a +28 to Trip maneuvers. (+10 BAB, +4 Lore Warden, +4 Str, +3 Dex (Fury's Fall), +2 Imp Trip, +2 Greater Trip, +3 from a +3 Whip.)
UMD Checks @ 11th level: d20 + 23 bonus

Note 1: Has access to Paragon Surge Half-Elf spell from ARG.
Note 2: Can use 1st level Wizard wands/scrolls with no UMD check. Can use up to 4th level Wizard wands/scrolls with only an activation check (no need to emulate ability score or class feature).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just wish I could still have an Improved Familiar to use my UMD bonus to throw buffs on me quicker so I'm able to play a little more aggressive/offensive.

I'm back to the Trip Feats, to be honest Lore Warden does have some good synergy with combat maneuvers. It seems like most of my stats would take a hit to pull Charisma back up to 13 to qualify for Eldritch Heritage. Suggestions?

The Exchange

ElterAgo wrote:

At one time there was a fighter at our local with a similar concept. he made it just to prove it could be done, but he said it ended up being one of his most successful characters.

I believe he just went straight fighter. Got all his two-weapon combat feats from fighter bonus feats. He dumped charisma, intelligence to 14, and took dangerously curious. The human alternate racial trait for multiple skill focus. Kept his UMD and perception at max ranks.

Then used most of his prestige to buy a variety of level 1 buff wands (and a few useful buff, condition removal, and utility scrolls). If there was a cooperative caster in the group he would hand them 1 or 2 of his wands and ask him to use them on me if a fight breaks out.
If there was not a cooperative caster, he would use them on himself before a fight started. Occasionally he would roll a 1, but he had a bunch of wands.

On paper, and being modest in my bonuses at lvl 11 I'm looking at -

+19/+14 when power attacking for 1d4+17dmg, 4 AoO's per turn, roughly 25AC, improved familiar using my +23 UMD checks with buffing wands or using scrolls. That's assuming I spend half my money on scrolls, wands, or rods.

I miss out on a few things going Half-Elf, like not getting Focused Study I miss out on a free "Skill Focus: Perception" at 8th level, I forfeit my Favored Class Bonuses to HP, and lose 1 skill point a level not being Human, but going Half-Elf I'm gaining Arcane Strike (+3dmg at lvl 10, my CL goes off my Half-Elf level due to the Envoy Elf racial trait that I pick up, thanks to the Elven Spirit feat.) I also gain access to buy, and use, a wand of Paragon Surge, not sure in PFS if Humans can access this spell in ARG to emulate it but I doubt that most tables would allow it. If anything it would be a point of controversy.

All in all going Half-Elf seems like a nice trade off, and the swap to an Improved Familiar seems like a stronger option than putting all my eggs in 1 basket to being that "guy that trips almost everything." I should still be able to trip someone when I want. I just have my familiar activate a wand (using my +23 UMD check) of Truestrike on me first.

The Exchange

Witch seems to have some good spells like Screech, CLW, and others but there's a lot of spells on the Wizard list that it seems like the Witch is missing.

Examples of Wizard Spells that I'd be missing if I picked Witch:

Gaseous Form - against grapples or swallow whole
Haste - obvious reasons
Blur - against rogues, 20% miss chance is useful in general also
Dimensional Anchor - against teleporting outsiders.
Resist Energy - versatile against various elementals, arcane casters, or some outsiders. Throw this on at the beginning of a fight and negate 10dmg from every hit that Fire elemental is doing.
True Strike - Auto trip? I believe so.
Communal Protection from Evil - level 2 group buff vs Evil and Summoned creatures. Good use of a standard.
Expeditious Retreat - extra movement, or an extra 15ft acrobatics roll movement
Touch of the Sea - for those times when you have no choice but swim
Shield - great since I'm not using a shield

Seems the classic Wizard list provides the biggest selection of buffs. Did I miss anything?

Also, should I swap my trip feats for an improved familiar and getting Power Attack & Arcane Strike earlier? I'd up my dmg quite a bit and improve my action economy with a familiar but I'd be losing +7 to trip and the free AoO generated from them getting tripped.

The Exchange

Is it worth spending the 3 feats on Improved Trip, Greater Trip, and Fury's Fall for a Lore Warden fighter? Or am I better off getting Power Attack and Arcane Strike earlier and then getting Skill Focus: Knowledge Arcane, Eldritch Heritage, and then Improved Familiar by level 10?

I know trip builds can be strong and this one should be exceptionally strong but a bit worried about going against non-trippable monsters (flying or tons of legs). I believe familiars use your UMD check so having an Improved Familiar would increase my action economy and my character's nature should provide my Familiar with wands and scrolls to use. Thoughts?

The Exchange

*bump*

Any suggestions for what Arcane Class to choose as my Favored Class for Half-Elf's 'Arcane Training'? I tanked Charisma so Bard and Summoner are out, but there's still Wizard, Witch, and Magus.

Also if you see any issues or have any suggestions for my latest build, Half-Elf with Whip & UMD, please feel free to leave a post. Thanks! :)

The Exchange

Well, I tried your approach with the Dangerously Curious and Clever Wordplay combo. Decided to switch things up a little differently as I was getting frustrated with the poor choice of weapon selection and the feat tax. Also figured since Lore Warden gives Combat Expertise, bonuses to CMB manuevers, and I'll be wanting to use my turn for buffs and maximize my time with attacks of opportunities I came up with this.

UMD Battlefield Control Fighter:

Class – Fighter (Lore Warden)
Race – Half-Elf

Traits -
* Clever Wordplay (use Int mod instead of Cha mod for UMD)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 to UMD & it's a class skill)

Alt Racial Traits –
* Arcane Training (Favored Class Wizard, can use spell trigger & spell completion items for FC as a 1st-level wizard.)
**Elven Spirit Feat – use feat to take Envoy racial trait: Gain the following spell-like abilities once per day: comprehend languages, detect magic, detect poison, and read magic. The caster level for these effects is equal to the elf's level. This racial trait replaces elven magic. (this opens up Arcane Strike at full caster level)

Stats -
Str: 16
Dex: 16 (+2 added)
Con: 12 (-2 added)
Int: 14 (+2 added)
Wis: 12
Cha: 7

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Elven Spirit (lvl 1), Skill Focus: UMD (H-E), EWP: Whip (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, Weapon Focus: Whip (fighter), Combat Expertise (lore warden)
3) Monk 1: Bab +2, Deflect Arrows (monk), Whip Mastery (lvl 3)
4) Monk 2: Bab +3, +1 Str, Combat Reflexes (monk), Evasion (monk)
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Improved Trip (5)
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Improved Whip Mastery (fighter)
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Greater Trip (lvl 7)
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Str, Fury’s Fall (fighter)
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Power Attack (lvl 9)
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Arcane Strike (fighter)
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, Improved Initiative (lvl 11)

UMD Check 11th level: d20 + 23 bonus
Can use 1st level Wizard wands/scrolls with no UMD check. Can use up to 4th level Wizard wands/scrolls with only an activation check (no need to emulate ability score or class feature).

I know this build takes up a lot of feats as if I had went Slashing Grace or etc, but I'm able to make attacks (via opportunity) and still use my standard to use wands/scrolls. At 6th level I'll get AoO's from 5-10ft and I'll have 15ft reach. Whip is 1handed so my other hand is free for deflecting arrows/bombs or pulling out wands/scrolls and casting. EWP: Whip counts for Scorpion Whip in Adventure's Armory book so I'll have the exact same weapon but lethal damage right away.

Any suggestions? I think I have everything correct here. I didn't go for the damage boosters (Power Attack or Arcane Strike) first but instead went for crowd control to trip foes and provide AoO's for myself and allies.

P.S. - Thanks for the suggestion on Clever Wordplay, it allowed me to dump Charisma, boost Int a little for more skill points and raise Str to have damage right off the bat.

EDIT: Any suggestions on what Arcane Class would be most advantageous? Witch, Wizard, or Magus? Excluding Summoner and Bard since I dumped Charisma.

The Exchange

RainyDayNinja wrote:

You know you can't use Weapon Finesse with the longsword, right? You can use a rapier instead and pick up Fencing Grace from Advanced Class Origins, which will give you Dex to attack and damage.

Also, the Defender of the Society trait only works in medium or heavy armor, which you're not proficient in as a Lore Warden. You might swap it out for Clever Wordplay, which lets you use Int for UMD instead of Charisma. That way you can take Charisma down to 10 or lower and boost Int, which helps your concept all around (although you wouldn't qualify for Eldritch Heritage, if that's really important to you).

Also, you need 8 levels in fighter to qualify for Greater Weapon Focus, so the 2-level dip in monk means you can't get it until 10.

I'd also recommend getting at least 11 Wisdom, so you don't have to emulate ability scores for those level 1 divine spells.

Yeah, I noticed that after posting..but I was picturing a Traditional Chinese Sword weapon being used. I've got 3 credits saved and I could swap the progression around to 1st & 2nd level Fighter then 2 levels of Monk, which would let me get Slashing Grace at 2nd level.

Good catch on Defender of the Society. Not sure if burning a feat for Medium armor would be worth it....or if I should just pickup a different trait. Clever Wordplay requires a book I don't have and burns both my Traits which doesn't seem like a big payoff. I kind of like the idea of Eldritch Heritage for the +4 initiative; I should probably also pickup Improved Initiative which I'd easily have a +12 between those two and my Dex mod.

Thanks for pointing out Greater Weapon Focus, I think I had that in the build before I swapped in the 2 Monk levels. Could easily change this to Weapon Specialization: Longsword for a free +2dmg per hit.

How hard is it to emulate ability scores? Is the check to emulate an ability score equal to your total Mod + roll or just your total Mod -15? From the way I'm reading it it's your d20 roll + total UMD mod, which means I'd need a 26 or higher on my roll to emulate a 1st level Divine spell.

I could drop Dex down to 17 to free up 3 build points. Could up Wis to 12 and throw the left over point into Int.

The thought of using a Rapier is somewhat tempting but it means I have to buy another book. The Inspired Blade Swashbuckler archetype does look nice. I just recently bought the ACG but I plan on picking up some other books before I'd pickup the 'ACG Origins' so I'm going to pass on the Rapier idea.

I appreciate your feedback; keep the ideas/suggestions flowing. :)

The Exchange

Hello all,

*PFS Character build*

I've recently decided to try putting together a UMD Fighter with a backstory that studied and tried really hard but just couldn't cut it as a Wizard. I'm focusing her on UMD to activate cleric/ranger/wizard/etc Wands and Scrolls to "emulate" a caster but still be martially inclined.

I've thought of trying the Eldritch Knight, it gets a few bonus feats but not near what a Fighter gets. EK also has bad saves and hardly any skill points per lvl. So I've thrown together the following. (It's a rough draft so be gentle.)

UMD Fighter:

Class – 9 Fighter (Lore Warden) / 2 Monk
Race – Human

Traits -
* Fighter Society (+1 AC if wearing armor)
* Dangerously Curious (+1 UMD & class skill)

Stats -
Str: 13
Dex: 18 (+2 racial added)
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 13

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Weapon Focus: longsword (lvl 1), Focused Study (human), Weapon Finesse (fighter), +1hp
2) Monk 1: Bab +1, Deflect Arrows (monk), +1hp
3) Monk 2: Bab +2, Skill Focus: Knowledge Arcane (lvl 3), Dodge (monk), Evasion (monk), +1hp
4) Fighter 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, Slashing Grace (fighter), Combat Expertise (fighter), +1hp
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Eldritch Heritage - Arcane: Familiar (5), +1hp
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Power Attack (fighter), +1hp
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Quick Draw (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Dex, Greater Weapon Focus: longsword (fighter), +1hp
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Magical Aptitude (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Improved Critical (fighter), +1hp
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, FREE (lvl 11), +1hp

Notes -
Focused Study: 1st lvl Use Magic Device, 8th lvl Perception
Familiar - Rabbit (+4 initiative)

I don't want to use Dervish Dance, doesn't fit the character's background so I kept Str up to 13 to still have access to Power Attack. Piranha Strike only works on Light Weapons and Slashing Grace only affects One Handed weapons so these two Feats at not compatible in PFS.

For melee I'll be sporting a "Sword Saint" style of carrying 3 Scabbard of Vigors and quick-drawing my longsword out 3x a day to get +3atk/+3dmg for 3rnds. Her other hand is kept empty to deflect arrows, and to use scrolls or wands.

Lore Warden and Monk both give 4 skill points a level, +1 for 12int and +1 from Human's Skill trait, I'll have 6 skill points a level to play around with while having bonus feats from Fighter.

Level 1 she should have a +9 UMD which seems decent, I'm hoping that's a good start. What level would she be pretty reliable for UMD'ing wands or scrolls in combat?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some of this I threw together quite fast but the overall concept is there. A fighter that tries her best to mimic a caster with UMD checks, decent skill points per level (lore warden), familiar, and evasion to compliment her high Dex score.

I've thought about a Half-Elf with Adaptability (free Skill Focus), Arcane Training race trait, Elven Spirit feat to gain the Elf Envoy race trait to have a Wizard CL to avoid UMD checks, but I would still have to UMD for any Ranger, Cleric, or etc spell. Feel free to leave comments if you think this is a better route than the above Human build.

If anyone has suggestions or corrections please feel free to reply. Hoping this will be a decently fun character concept and build.

The Exchange

Deighton Thrane wrote:

They're open to classes without a specific list. So you would need to take the beastmaster ranger to get one, or another druid style Animal Companion class.

Also wanted to mention, since I forgot to earlier, Arcane Strike shouldn't necessarily be a high priority for a mounted character. Arcane Strike uses a swift action to use, Mounted Combat and Indomitable Mount use an immediate action. So any turn you use Mounted Combat or Indomitable Mount you can't use Arcane Strike. Then if you go cavalier, it's also your challenge and greater tactician action. So it'll be nice when you can use it, but you won't always be able to.

Great catch on the swift action uses. Thanks.

The Exchange

So how does one get a Giant Gecko for a mount? I know the Bestiary 3 says they are legal but if I'm not mistaken that's for Druids as the Ranger, Cavalier, and Paladin AC lists are limited to a smaller list of acceptable mounts. Can someone clarify where it says that these AC's in the Bestiary are open to all classes with an AC?

The Exchange

Gregory Connolly wrote:

Summoner is probably the best. You can get a eidolon mount with 3 attacks and pounce, and you have a 3/4 BAB 6 level caster for the rider. The eidolon will be better than an animal companion, but the Summoner will be weaker than a Druid or Cavalier. In a full 1-20 campaign nothing beats a Druid, but for PFS Summoner is good.

Most full BAB or 3/4 BAB classes can be made awesome at mounted combat. Are you looking for the most DPR, the coolest or a list of viable options?

I'm just looking for fun and flavor, with some decent'ness to it. I was thinking Mad Dog barbarian with a Panda mount for interesting'ness but I guess Summoner would have a lot of fun choices to make things interesting.

I'm not sure whether to go with a Gnome or a Halfling though.

The Exchange

Deighton Thrane wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:
Mad Dog Barbarian would be a good choice. I would need to take Skilled Rager to use Handle Animal while raging but it seems like a good choice. I could select a Moose or Panda from Animal Archive this way.
Mad Dog Barbarian doesn't get rage til level 4, so unless you want to stick with it for a while, you don't have to worry about it. Also, I've always thought the best use for the mad dog was to send your dog out to drag your enemies to you so you could full round attack them, but I suppose rage works just as well on a mounted charge as full attacking with a greatsword.

I believe according to the PFS FAQ that you can't use another class to gain access to an animal companion on a different class. I believe if I take an AC from Mad Dog that is outside of the Cavalier list then the AC's levels don't stack. Including the link concerning AC's levels from Druid & Cavalier not stacking if the AC isn't on both lists.

PFS FAQ

The Exchange

Deighton Thrane wrote:
So, I've been trying to put a mounted ranger build together quickly, and while I'm probably missing something, you could probably go Mad Dog Barbarian first level, get you D12 hit die, a BAB, Fast Movement and more importantly any Animal Companion you want. After that go beastmaster ranger with the mounted combat style. Level 3 you should probably take boon companion, but after that you can get back on the mounted combat feats. You also lose your 6th level combat style feat though. So you'll get your mounted combat feats a little later, but you can choose any animal companion, including the Roc, if you want a flying companion, plus you get spells and favored enemy. I'd still probably go with a cavalier for the bonuses on the charge and the extra teamwork feats (seriously, escape route is broken levels of powerful) but the ranger build doesn't look as bad as I first thought. Just take a little longer to get going is all.

Mad Dog Barbarian would be a good choice. I would need to take Skilled Rager to use Handle Animal while raging but it seems like a good choice. I could select a Moose or Panda from Animal Archive this way.

The Exchange

Deighton Thrane wrote:

Well, since you're small and you want to use either a lance or shortbow while mounted, lead blades and gravity bow change damage from d6 to d8, or d4 to d6, which is okay, but not great. Longstrider is better, but most mounts should have a decent move speed anyway.

As for mounted skirmisher, you need 14 ranks of ride, so unless you're going to play into seeker level, it's not going to come into play, and you should have enough ride to not fail ride checks anyway, especially if you're a cavalier, since you don't take an ACP while on your mount, although the extra evasion of an attack is nice, you also have to choose between avoiding an attack or a will save.

If you did go Ranger, you could go with instant enemy for a ridiculous bonus to damage on a charge. And being able to heal your animal companion, to keep it from dying can be pretty handy. But most of the feats you get from Mounted Combat style, you want to get before you get them as bonus feats. Although the ranger would probably make a better mounted archer if that's what you wanted to build.

Also, forgot to mention, it's worth taking beast rider archetype for the cavalier, gives you a lot more choice on which animal companion you want. At level 7 you can take a Deinonychus that while your performing a ride by attack gets to pounce with 5 attacks as well. First few levels you are stuck with a pony or wolf though.

Ah, very helpful info. Just to throw out another option here, what do you think of the Dungeon Rover, Ranger archetype? I'd need to find a trait that makes Ride a class skill (Beast Bond trait, Horse Lord (Qadira) trait, Militia Veteran trait, or Savanna Child trait).

Taking Dungeon Rover I could ride either a Giant Centipede, Giant Scorpion, or Giant Slug. Not sure how much enemies like to trip PC mounts or if any of these mounts seem to be worth it.

Giant Centipede - can't be tripped, 60ft darkvision, and 20ft climb speed, and can poison enemies
Giant Scorpion - +12 vs trip, 60ft tremorsense, 30ft darkvision, 2 grabs via claws, and can poison enemies
Giant Slug - 30ft ranged acid spit, blindsense 30 ft, DR 5/slashing or piercing, can't be tripped, blindsight 30ft

The Exchange

Deighton Thrane wrote:

I would suggest taking a halfing or a wayang if you're focusing on a melee build, since they're easier to deal damage with than a gnome, either through risky striker feat, or just not having a strength penalty.

Straight cavalier will get you the biggest bonuses to your charge. A one level dip in Dragoon gets you mounted combat and skill focus ride for a one level delay in AC abilities. Inquisitor with an AC doesn't need his companion to have the teamwork feats to get the bonuses, Hunter gets a lot of the same, plus both get spells. Ranger would probably be my last choice, even with the mounted combat fighting style, they have limited choices for animal companions, won't get one til 4th level, and need Boon companion to make it capable in combat, 4th level casting won't make up for it. Personally I'd just choose whichever fits the character you...

Really appreciate your input! I was thinking Gnome due to their ability to grab Darkvision via ARG and their Spell-Like Abilities qualifying for Arcane Strike. Is there anything that I'd be regularly using my Swift actions for as a mounted character? I know Risky Striker is great but it requires my enemy to be Large size or bigger (2 sizes bigger than me or more).

The 1 level dip in Dragoon does sound really useful. I don't think I'm interested in the Inquisitor's 3/4 BAB, same with Hunter. I was thinking Ranger would be a strong choice though as I can use wands of Ranger spells without a UMD check (Longstrider on mount via "Shared Spells", Gravity Bow, and Lead Blades all look good).

I'm not sure how great some of the Mounted Style feats are for Ranger that they get early and if it's worth spending a feat for Boon Companion to make up the difference when compared to a Cavalier. I know I would not be able to grab Trick Riding till about the end of my PFS career and Mounted Skirmisher would be out of the question for PFS. Is the Cavalier that much better that I wouldn't really miss these feats or the Ranger spells/wands? Also, both are full BAB and 1d10HD per level but Ranger gets +2 skill points per level, not sure how Skill point starved a Cavalier normally is.

EDIT: Also, if I remember correctly a Ranger would have a bigger selection for a mount than Cavalier.
Cavalier - A small Cavalier has a choice of "pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level"
Ranger - A ranger can choose from "badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper or constrictor), or wolf."

I believe the "Undersized Mount" feat would also increase the choices of the mounts available from the above Ranger list. I believe I'm missing out from choosing a Boar though.

Would love to hear some thoughts about this. :)

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Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:

I wouldn't do it.

A) pfs headquarters is on an island, and you're on a boat a lot. Not always good for mounts.

B) pfs is a lot about archaeology, and twisty dungeon passages are not good for mounted charges.

C) aside from the one adventure a year you get to charge someone for a zillion points of damage, you'll basically be a sub par fighter most of the time, and your mount will be 'in the stable' while you crawl through a sewer or something.

My best advice is to save this character for Kingmaker.

I'm looking to play a small sized race so in theory I should be able to charge as often as any tiger/lion that pounces or any barbarian that pounces/charges. My mount will be medium sized so I'm looking at it taking up the same size/space as my small character.

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Hello,

I'm thinking of making a Gnome or Halfling character focused on mounted combat. Can someone advise which classes work best for this? I know Rangers can get access to some mounted combat feats early and I know Cavaliers get some helpful abilities for mounted combat. I'm not sure which class is better or if there's any other good class options for mounted combat.

If someone could give advice on what feats to take and in what order I'd greatly appreciate it also.

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This would be for PFS btw.

It seems that the most likely suggestion to work would be the 1 level Cleric dip. I guess my two options would be a 1 lvl dip Monk, 1 lvl dip Cleric, then rest Druid. Or, a 1 lvl dip Monk and rest Cleric and settle with domains that give druid spells.

Does it sound worth it?

I believe you choose 1 of the two favored weapons and stick with that, I don't think you get both.

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Hello all,

Are there any classes or archetypes that allow the mixing of Cleric and Druid? I'm curious if it's possible to play a cleric based character and gain access to certain druid spells (outside of ones granted via domains).

Alternatively, I'd be interested if anyone knows how to make a druid that can learn 'Guided Hand'.

What I'm trying to accomplish:
I'm trying to make a Cleric with a 1 or 2 level dip in Monk and get Guided Hand to make Wisdom my stat for spells, ac, and to-hit. There's quite a few druid spells though that I really would like to have but not sure how I would acquire them.

If someone can provide some options then they get a free cookie. :)