Help build / gear my Rogue! (PFS)


Advice

The Exchange

Hey all,

Been gone a while but just came back and trying to find out how to continue onward with my Rogue.

Class/Level - 8 (Ninja/Scout 7 + Crusader Cleric 1)
Race – Half-Orc

Traits:

* Fate’s Favored
* Acrobat
* Darkvision 60ft
* Sacred Tattoo: +1 luck bonus to saves
* Orc Blood
* City Raised: +2 Knowledge Local

Languages:

Common, Orc, Tien, Ancient Osiriani, Ancient Thassalonian, Undercommon, Giant, Abyssal

Stats at 8th level:

Str: 18 (+2 racial included)
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 14

Saves:

Fort: 10
Reflex: 11
Will: 8

Levels so far:

1) Ninja 1: Bab +0 | Dodge (lvl 1)
2) Ninja 2: Bab +1 | Ninja Trick: Weapon Training (Weapon Focus: Katana)
3) Ninja 3: Bab +2 | Power Attack (lvl 3)
4) Ninja 4: Bab +3 | Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick, +1 Str
5) Ninja 5: Bab +3 | Mobility (5)
6) Ninja 6: Bab +4 | Ninja Trick: Combat Trick Spring Attack
7) Crusader Cleric 1: Bab +4 | Furious Focus (lvl 7), Heavy Armor Prof (Crusader)
8) Ninja 7: Bab +5 | +1 Str

Gear:

Cloak of Resistance +2
Boots of the Cat
Swarmbane Clasp
+2 Katana
+1 O-yoroi
+1 Heavy Darkwood Shield

Reason I took 1 level of Cleric:

+2 to Fort/Will saves
Luck Varient Channels 5/day
Travel Domain: +10 move speed, Agile Feet 3/day
Crusader Feat: Heavy Armor Proficiency
Cantrips and ability to cast Cleric spells from Divine Scrolls.

So now I'm currently at 61hp, 25 AC, 10 Fort, 11 Reflex, 8 Will, 5 uses of Vanishing Tricks, and 4d6 Sneak Attack while Power Attacking at no penalty.

What suggestions for next levels and especially what suggestions for gear? I'm at 7901 gold and I don't have a lot of equipment. Could really use some suggestions since I've been gone from PFS for about a year or more.


im just gona list some items you may find useful belt of str,belt of con, headband of wis, headband of cha, hat of disguise, ring of protection, ammulet of natural armor, burglers bracers, trap springs gloves, vest of escape, an ion stone with a wayfinder. there may be more but these are the ones i could remember off the top of my head


Either get rid of the shield or take a different 7th level feat. Furious Focus only works when you are wielding a weapon two-handed. As far as equipment goes Lady-J makes some good suggestions.

Also, instead of cleric did you consider warpriest for your dip? You lose channeling and 10ft of movement but gain a free feat [weapon focus] and if you went a second level you get fervor.

I have to look a little more at equipment before I make a recommendation.


Edit: Disclaimer; Not a PFS player.

Stupid question... but for PFS, would you benefit from something which (Partly for fluff & flavor's sake) inhibits the sound your armor makes? Otherwise consider a material or something that reduces its armor check penalty or benefits your stealth. So you can be sure to benefit from invisibility and stealth as you progress into higher levels.

If you're planning to be the skill-monkey for the group, and think you're going to take place in an adventure that calls for it, I'd also recommend a Traveler's Any-Tool.

Others already recommended some generic, always-good items, and others still will likely recommend more. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.


Bane Wraith wrote:

Edit: Disclaimer; Not a PFS player.

Stupid question... but for PFS, would you benefit from something which (Partly for fluff & flavor's sake) inhibits the sound your armor makes? Otherwise consider a material or something that reduces its armor check penalty or benefits your stealth. So you can be sure to benefit from invisibility and stealth as you progress into higher levels.

If you're planning to be the skill-monkey for the group, and think you're going to take place in an adventure that calls for it, I'd also recommend a Traveler's Any-Tool.

Others already recommended some generic, always-good items, and others still will likely recommend more. I'm just throwing in my 2 cents.

i think there is an armor enchant that boosts stealth and if the armor is made out of metal it can be made mithril or if its wood it can be made of dark wood it reduces acp by 2 but for some reason it doesnt boost max dex


PRD; Equipment, Core Rulebook wrote:


Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Emphasis mine. ...I'm not sure what you're talking about. Of course Mithral boosts maximum dex... o.o

Edit: Oh, I see. You're talking only about darkwood. Nevermind.

The Exchange

Bane Wraith wrote:

Edit: Disclaimer; Not a PFS player.

Stupid question... but for PFS, would you benefit from something which (Partly for fluff & flavor's sake) inhibits the sound your armor makes? Otherwise consider a material or something that reduces its armor check penalty or benefits your stealth. So you can be sure to benefit from invisibility and stealth as you progress into higher levels.

The character is a different take on a "Samurai" as she dashes in, swings hard, and then dashes out. Striking at vital points. I was not too impressed with the Samurai class presented in Ultimate Combat and felt that I could maybe make a better "Samurai" this way.

The Vanishing Tricks is just there to hopefully provide "cover" to quickly retreat or to get sneak attacks when a flank is not possible. Also, my stealth is a 0 (1 rank + dex & class skill bonus offsetting the -6 from Heavy Armor and Shield).


Ah.. So you're absolutely reliant on flanking positions or surprise rounds/ high initiative for that ever-important sneak attack? Hmm...

Well as others suggested, first thing to do is to get rid of that shield and perhaps invest in a buckler. or Ring of Force Shield (Ultimate Equipment) that at least has a Chance of benefiting your AC, while being usable with Furious Focus when needed. It would take out a good chunk of gold, but worth it if you're relying on high AC while dashing in and out. Again, not a PFS player; I only hope this is legal.

The Exchange

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Any other gear suggestions anyone can think of?


I think this could have been done better as a Ninja and heavy armor Cleric are basically opposites. Multiclassing into a Crusader Cleric figuratively and literally weighs you down. On the Cleric side you cant cast anything but weak orisons, your channel is heavily underleveled.

Using any armor above light will inhibit several of your Ninja abilities and youre wasting your dexterity and skills.

I have no idea how youre character works out in games.

As a Ninja I would suggest focusing on Dexterity, using Wakizashis, and making a critical strike build for combat.
----------------
One major suggestion I can give is to replace your armor with Mithril material ones to decrease weight, but more importantly shrink the armor check penalty. Mithril Chain Shirt only costs about 1100g, Mithril full Plate is 10,500g.

Frankly most people are against heavy armor because of its numerous penalties compared to Mithril Breastplate which functions as or almost as Light armor with a -1 armor check penalty at worst.

You may want to replace the shield with a buckler. You can use it defensively like a Light Shield to go "sword and board" or keep wearing it but toggle the use of your Katana two-handed for increased damage bonus and another damage bonus from Power Attack.


ChaosTicket wrote:

I think this could have been done better as a Ninja and heavy armor Cleric are basically opposites. Multiclassing into a Crusader Cleric figuratively and literally weighs you down. On the Cleric side you cant cast anything but weak orisons, your channel is heavily underleveled.

Using any armor above light will inhibit several of your Ninja abilities and youre wasting your dexterity and skills.

I have no idea how youre character works out in games.

As a Ninja I would suggest focusing on Dexterity, using Wakizashis, and making a critical strike build for combat.
----------------
One major suggestion I can give is to replace your armor with Mithril material ones to decrease weight, but more importantly shrink the armor check penalty. Mithril Chain Shirt only costs about 1100g, Mithril full Plate is 10,500g.

Frankly most people are against heavy armor because of its numerous penalties compared to Mithril Breastplate which functions as or almost as Light armor with a -1 armor check penalty at worst.

You may want to replace the shield with a buckler. You can use it defensively like a Light Shield to go "sword and board" or keep wearing it but toggle the use of your Katana two-handed for increased damage bonus and another damage bonus from Power Attack.

they said they went ninja as a replacement for samuri cuz the samuri class sucks and they are emulating a samuri with the ninja class with a dip into cleric to boost saves and allow heavy armor wearing


The thing is you're piling 2 classes with medium BAB, losing a lot on the attack front.
Ninja trick Spring Attack, not even sure what it is, but if it works like Spring attack, I don't see the point why you would need Heavy Armor.

If you're gonna move attack, move back, then why do you need Heavy Armor? That's just penalizing you on your Tumble skill check due to high penalties from shield and Heavy Armor.

If you can make do without Cleric casting I'd look into the following:

Cavalier > gets you Tactician, you can give other people 1 teamwork feat that will last 4 rounds with 1 level of Cavalier. Can only use 1 once a die, but can work for big fights. Plus other stuff.
Samurai > Similar to Cavalier. The orders could be interesting, but I'd be reticent to either Cavalier/Samurai because they're really strong thematic classes.

Slayer > Full BAB and it gets you Studied Target. If you hit Sneak Attack you can study as immediate action instead of move, and you're basically getting +2 hit / +1 damage from 1 dip.
2 Levels get you a Slayer Talent, which can be a Rogue Talent, and I'm guessing a Ninja one. You're getting +3 to Fort/Ref Saves, but losing a bit on the Will side.

Swashbuckler > Great for level 1 dip. Full Martial Weapons. Makes use of CHA, same as Ninja.
Panache which can be recovered by confirming Critical hits.
Weapon Finesse for free and can use CHA for prerequisites instead of Int. You do lose on the Saves side, only gaining +2 to Ref.

If you're serious about the Shield, Swashbuckler is a great choice, because you're limited to 1 handed piercing weapon to make use of her abilities.

On the other hand, Ninjas get access to UMD, invest a little and you can cast anything you want if it's low level or just use wands to avoid the check on Mental Scores.


Letric wrote:

The thing is you're piling 2 classes with medium BAB, losing a lot on the attack front.

Ninja trick Spring Attack, not even sure what it is, but if it works like Spring attack, I don't see the point why you would need Heavy Armor.

If you're gonna move attack, move back, then why do you need Heavy Armor? That's just penalizing you on your Tumble skill check due to high penalties from shield and Heavy Armor.

If you can make do without Cleric casting I'd look into the following:

Cavalier > gets you Tactician, you can give other people 1 teamwork feat that will last 4 rounds with 1 level of Cavalier. Can only use 1 once a die, but can work for big fights. Plus other stuff.
Samurai > Similar to Cavalier. The orders could be interesting, but I'd be reticent to either Cavalier/Samurai because they're really strong thematic classes.

Slayer > Full BAB and it gets you Studied Target. If you hit Sneak Attack you can study as immediate action instead of move, and you're basically getting +2 hit / +1 damage from 1 dip.
2 Levels get you a Slayer Talent, which can be a Rogue Talent, and I'm guessing a Ninja one. You're getting +3 to Fort/Ref Saves, but losing a bit on the Will side.

Swashbuckler > Great for level 1 dip. Full Martial Weapons. Makes use of CHA, same as Ninja.
Panache which can be recovered by confirming Critical hits.
Weapon Finesse for free and can use CHA for prerequisites instead of Int. You do lose on the Saves side, only gaining +2 to Ref.

If you're serious about the Shield, Swashbuckler is a great choice, because you're limited to 1 handed piercing weapon to make use of her abilities.

On the other hand, Ninjas get access to UMD, invest a little and you can cast anything you want if it's low level or just use wands to avoid the check on Mental Scores.

im thinking this is a character they are already playing and just came into a decent amount of gold and are wondering what to do with it so redesigning the character seems to be off the table


Lady-J wrote:


im thinking this is a character they are already playing and just came into a decent amount of gold and are wondering what to do with it so redesigning the character seems to be off the table

Oh. Against a CR7 that build has a 60% chance of hitting it with a +11 to attack. 4 from STR 5 from BAB 2 from weapon.

I'd definitely go with STR then, we need to up chances of hitting the enemy.
Also I'd drop the shield and go full 2handed. With only 1 attack and having delayed 2 attacks by 1 level you need to put a lot of effort and make it worth.

If you can change Cleric archetype, go Evangelist if you don't have a Bard, you will get Inspire courage, helping not only you but the party get some +1 to hit/damage.

Or just straight cleric. Giving up a domain for Heavy Armor Prof is not worth imo.
Also it doesn't make much sense moving around the battlefield with Spring Attack in Heavy Armor, you'd be eating a lot of Attack of Opp, unless that's what you want to do.


Once the Scout ability to deal Sneak damage any time you move comes online, you're set for Spring Attack Sneak Attack; but you're still limited to only one strike per round unless something engages you or you decide to engage for a full attack. You might want to simply invest in more Ki and maybe Shadow Clone so that you can go full attack when it matters most - Extra Ki and a CHA item add a significant amount.

The Exchange

I'm willing to redesign my character with changing the 1 level of Cleric possibly. The big bonus from Cleric was the +10 move speed from the Travel domain. I wasn't sure if the Rage ability from Barbarian would stop me from using Ki powers.

And yeah, the Scout ability to deal sneak dmg after moving 10ft is a big game changer and coupled with Spring Attack I'd be able to get sneak attacks off the majority of the time. My thought was even though I can Spring Attack, the enemy can always charge and catch me with an attack, so the Heavy Armor was a means to help prevent myself from eating a +2hit charging power attack after spring attacking the enemy and moving away. Maybe Heavy Armor wasn't the best option?

To help with Spring Attack synergy I think the Cleric's Travel domain and the Barbarian were the two biggest options since they both provided a +10 move speed.

Also, my goals for the next couple of levels was to get Offensive Defense, Cornugon Smash, Invisible Blade, and Hunter's Surprise. Any other good feat options or better off dipping elsewhere?


River Shadowhand wrote:

I'm willing to redesign my character with changing the 1 level of Cleric possibly. The big bonus from Cleric was the +10 move speed from the Travel domain. I wasn't sure if the Rage ability from Barbarian would stop me from using Ki powers.

And yeah, the Scout ability to deal sneak dmg after moving 10ft is a big game changer and coupled with Spring Attack I'd be able to get sneak attacks off the majority of the time. My thought was even though I can Spring Attack, the enemy can always charge and catch me with an attack, so the Heavy Armor was a means to help prevent myself from eating a +2hit charging power attack after spring attacking the enemy and moving away. Maybe Heavy Armor wasn't the best option?

To help with Spring Attack synergy I think the Cleric's Travel domain and the Barbarian were the two biggest options since they both provided a +10 move speed.

Also, my goals for the next couple of levels was to get Offensive Defense, Cornugon Smash, Invisible Blade, and Hunter's Surprise. Any other good feat options or better off dipping elsewhere?

heavy armor isn't that bad if its mithril or celestial plate if your still looking at barbarian as a potential there's an archetype that is called armored hulk if you don't plan on getting either mithril or celestial plate but still want to wear heavy armor although if you don't mind alignment restrictions/code of conduct since your trying to emulate a samuri you could do a couple levels into paladin for cha to saves heavy armor prof smite evil and a small amount of self heals per day


Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

The Exchange

Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.


River Shadowhand wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.

certain gods can change your paladin code of conduct there may be one out there that allows you to use underhanded tactics


Wheres your bag of sand?

The Exchange

Lady-J wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.

certain gods can change your paladin code of conduct there may be one out there that allows you to use underhanded tactics

Don't really want to go off-topic with this. I don't want to mess with multiple PFS GM's interpretations of the Paladin and what is "valid" and not that they try to require atonement for breaking the Paladin's Code of Conduct. It's semi annoying as a regular Paladin, it's a headache throwing in a Rogue/Ninja into it. I'm not interested.

Now maybe switching my 1 Cleric level to Fighter or Barbarian would be interesting. The question is would I be getting more out of 1-3 levels of Barbarian or Fighter than the 1 level from Cleric and the rest in Ninja? I need to have 8 levels of Ninja/Scout for the "Skirmisher" ability to synergize with Spring Attack.

Edit: The remaining feats I was planning to pick up with the next 3 levels of Ninja/Scout is "Offensive Defense" rogue talent, Invisible Blade ninja trick, and Hunter's Surprise rogue talent.


River Shadowhand wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
River Shadowhand wrote:
Matt2VK wrote:

Not sure where your skills are at but if you have a high stealth check, think about grabbing the feat: Hellcat Stealth. Allows you to make a stealth check at -10 while being observed.

Then use a Elixir of Hiding (+10 stealth for a hour) and you can try hiding in plain sight.

I've got 1 point in stealth. Vanishing Trick gives me invisibility whenever I want (5 ki, 1 ki per use with 7 rounds duration each time.) I've been putting my skill points elsewhere since in PFS using stealth in general is difficult.

Armored Hulk gets rid of the +10 move speed and only gains it back at 5th level. I'm 7 levels of Ninja already and at best I'd be 4 levels of Barbarian (5 right when the character retires). Paladin was an option but the character has more of a stone cold assassin and uses unfair tactics to kill her target (Spring Attack and Invisibility) so I FEEL that Paladin just doesn't jive well, just my opinion and reason why I won't multiclass Paladin.

certain gods can change your paladin code of conduct there may be one out there that allows you to use underhanded tactics

Don't really want to go off-topic with this. I don't want to mess with multiple PFS GM's interpretations of the Paladin and what is "valid" and not that they try to require atonement for breaking the Paladin's Code of Conduct. It's semi annoying as a regular Paladin, it's a headache throwing in a Rogue/Ninja into it. I'm not interested.

Now maybe switching my 1 Cleric level to Fighter or Barbarian would be interesting. The question is would I be getting more out of 1-3 levels of Barbarian or Fighter than the 1 level from Cleric and the rest in Ninja? I need to have 8 levels of Ninja/Scout for the "Skirmisher" ability to synergize with Spring Attack.

Edit: The remaining feats I was planning to pick up with the next 3 levels of Ninja/Scout is "Offensive Defense" rogue talent, Invisible Blade ninja trick, and Hunter's Surprise rogue talent.

fighter will allow you to move at normal speed in mithril armor at level three you will also get some bonus feats and heavy armor proficiency and if you go one more level you can pick up weapon specialisation for +2 dmg 3 levels in barbarian will get you +10 move speed in medium or less armor rage if your worried about not being able to use ki stuff in rage just dont use rage you will still gain the benefits from superstitious outside of a rage but have none of the penalties rage power (superstitious) uncanny dodge trapsence alternatively you can do invulnerable rager you lose uncanny dodge and trapsence but get dr1/- and either fire resist 1 or cold resist 1

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