ReconstructorFleet's page

Perception: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (8) + 3 = 11

Elena doesn't notice anything worth writing home about.

Hah! Thanks. XD I'll alias up and get loaded now.

So, uh, how do I add my character and such to the game on the characters section? ^^;;;

This is actually my first PBP in a few years, so I'm rusty on getting my stuff loaded up and ready to go.

I'm in. :D

Nah, she wasn't accepted in the other game, so she'd definitely be sticking around here. XD

Hey Larissa! There's actually a really cool Wizard Archetype in the Sword Coast Adventurer's guide that's literally "I'm a Wizard with Fighter Type Melee Sword options." :D Have you seen it? It's my new favorite thing, and it allows you to be a really fighty wizard. ^_^ I just got the book, and I'm in love with it.

I'm in. ^_^

The difference is timing: your game doesn't close recruitment until June 10th, this one closes recruitment in seven days. ;) If I get the character in for this one, I'd send in a different submission for yours. If I don't get the character in on this one, it stays the same for yours.

In short: Shenanigans.

Introducing Elena D'Augustino, Swashbuckler Rogue and adventurer extraordinare!

My preferences: She can fight, she can do intrigue, this is a character with a lot of options, I'm up for what everybody else wants.

Introducing Elena D'Augustino, Swashbuckling Rogue and noblewoman. (who's pretty much going right into Swashbuckler Rogue out of the Sword Coast Guide)

I'm a big fan of 5e, and I'm interested. Are you allowing items from the Sword Coast guide? What kind of setting details can you give? :D

I'm going to pull my name from the running. Life is more complicated, and I don't think I'll have the kind of time to play a full Kingmaker PBP. It's pretty intensive, if memory serves. :D Have fun though, everyone!

So I'm definitely interested. The characters I'm most interested in playing now in Kingmaker are an Unchained Monk, or a Gunslinger (Bolt Ace). I actually played Kingmaker before, and we made it two books in before the game fell apart.

The Unchained Monk would be a follower of Irori, and would be in it for the challenge of taking on the vast armies of bandits, as well as the uncertain nature of the task ahead. Seeing her transition to the later portions of Kingmaker would be a hilariously good time.

The Bolt Ace would be a mercenary with a preference for fighting people at extreme ranges, and a murky history as a town guard.

Let me know if you like me for it.

Character: Vigilante, Swashbuckler, Or Unchained Monk
Backstory: currently unknown, I'd tailor it to the adventure path.
Preferred Adventure Paths: Jade Regent, Council of Thieves, Hell's Rebels, Kingmaker

Ahem. Thank you Shisumo.

╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Criticism: if this is unchained, why remain chained to the worst, most restrictive bonus feat list in Pathfinder!?

Okay. That said, what about my other two questions?

EDIT: Ahem. Thank you Rynjin.

So far, I'm loving what I hear about Unchained Monk. Let's get past the will save and go by the other factors for a moment?

+Full BAB (easy access to feats).
+Style strikes applying to every flurry.
+Ki Powers that Mean Something.

Let's talk about what I mean by Ki Powers that mean something for a moment.

Observe every monk archetype before now: we have "spend a ki point for an extra attack", which is decent when you get it, and loses value as you level. We have "Spend 1 ki for 20 foot move speed for one round", which is nearly useless. We could list examples for hours, but the gist is: ki powers, except for the ones that let you recreate spell effects for X minutes/hours, were amazingly useless. Duration too short, effects too weak, cost too high, you name it, they were awful.

Now, I'm reading that monks get a ki power that's +30 foot move speed for 1 minute through a swift action? That's awesome. Abundant step at lower levels so I could actually use dimensional dervish during a character's life span? Amazing. The point I'm getting at is this: if all the ki-powers have improved staying power for their cost, then suddenly, your limited points pool becomes amazingly useful, as the effects last longer and are powerful enough to make them worth investing in.

I'm waiting to get my copy of the book, but my questions for people who do have all the information are:

1- Are the other Ki-powers equally cost effective?

2- Did they FINALLY fix the bonus feat list to just be any feat you qualify for, or is it still that ridiculously useless list? (If I hear "Still The Dumb List", I'm flipping the table, taking my ball, and going home.)

3- Besides going dimensional dervish or flying kick, what abilities are there that allow a monk to not be trapped in the old problem of the Immobile damage dealing target vs. The speedster who can't use his mobility to fight effectively after moving? Not including style feats of course. I just want to know what's specifically built into the class to avoid that.

Thanks!

-RF

*pulls up a chair*
*watches the days go by*
Soon. Soon.

Nice try. It specifically lists what levels you can take Ki Powers, and what you would be replacing at what levels. :(

If you want to fight in the thick of a melee, and remain effective, then play Flowing Monk, and disrupt everything.

If you intend to dart in and out of combat and throw combat maneuvers to disrupt individual enemies and small groups, play Standard + Qinggong.

If you want to be able to disrupt ANYTHING that has its feet on the ground, from levels 1 through levels 20, play Underfoot Adept (Halfling Required), take the Level Bonus at every level and apply it to the Halfling Racial bonus for Monks. And add in Qinggong Monk wherever possible. And take Stunning fist at level 11 so you can apply the other half of the Halfling Monk Level Bonus that you don't get until you have Stunning Fist. Just remember to take Vicious Stomp at level 3 and Combat Reflexes at level 1, and party hard.

And if you intend to deal damage as opposed to disrupt, play a different class.

It does not. Master of Many Styles is POTENTIALLY amazing due to the sheer number of high powered style feats it can have active simultaneously. But if you want to hit things consistently and effectively, you're better off just picking one set of style feats and sticking to them with a version of Monk that has Flurry.

Dabbler has pretty much summed things up, otherwise.

Oh! Right, and I almost forgot:

"SHO NUFF!"

http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

Consider the legend of Tucker's Kobolds, and rejoice. Be sneaky, apply fire and outflank whenever possible.

I took part in the playtest, guys. It's brilliant, and balanced.

Technically, you can do both. You just can't replace abilities that Monk of the Sacred Mountain already replaces.

If you do want to play a "thick of the melee" monk, then I would suggest combining Flowing Monk with Monk of the Sacred Mountain. They stack together, and do the job nicely.

it IS in the Monk Weapon Fighter Training Group, and nothing can save the Monk Weapon Adept archetype, unless you go Sohei and add that on top. Except that you can't.

So there's nothing short of homebrew that can make the Weapon Adept archetype useful.

I'd also suggest Crane Style. If you're going to take Dodge, you might as well take a -1 penalty to all attacks in able to get +4 AC and the ability to deflect 1 melee attack around, AND counterattack after deflecting.

ReconstructorFleet wrote:

Because for better or for worse, I think that unless you take Vow of Poverty, getting a permanent enhancement bonus to ANY weapon should cost you something.

Bladebound magus.

You have a good point. I suppose the main reason I'm so iffy on the idea, is that I'm already giving this heavy duty weapon training. Seeing as Monk has enough problems with items as it is, I'll add a rewrite that adds it as built in.

And now that you mention it, I do think I prefer 4/7/10/13/16 for the increasing enhancement bonus.

Thanks guys! Any more thoughts? :D

I don't know Rainzax. For built in, permanently enchanted weapons for a character, I feel like there NEEDS to be some kind of cost in money and time. Even Monk's AC bonus has a cost...although that cost is giving yourself a high enough wisdom mod during Point Buy that it counts as being Light Armor + Enchantments across 20 levels. XD And I based the 300 GP cost on the standard masterwork cost/the cost for gunslinger to take their busted starting gun and make it masterwork.

Trogdar wrote:

Dabbler wrote:

The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.

Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.

MAD is part of the accuracy problem, so if you don't resolve it you haven't beaten the accuracy problem. I would add an automatic enhancement to ki-strike - that way, you get 1d6+4 (weapon training) +5 (enhancement) at top level, with the AoMF adding properties. That said, I also got rid of the pseudo-full BAB, so that the monk had 3/4 BAB + Weapon Training. Then adding wis-to-hit helped alleviate MAD, and you're hitting pretty much as often as a full BAB class.

It's still +5 better across twenty levels regardless of what your strength or dexterity stat is.

In all seriousness though, the idea here is a quick fix bandaid that takes the broken bits of monk, and makes them reasonably functional for quick play. I do agree completely that they should make enhancing Unarmed Strike a part of the class. I disagree with how you go about it though.

My issue is that the monk would end up getting for free what other classes need to pay a boatload of money for, and for better or for worse, equipment is a HUGE part of High Level Play. One way or the other, a Monk is going to have a boatload of cash as he or she levels, and they should have to spend it on something. OR they need to make Vow of Poverty actually playable. It has to go one way or the other.

So here's my thought. Martial Artists have been performing body conditioning exercises since the dawn of recorded history to make themselves better fighters.Therefore, New Class Feature: Conditioning Exercises.

As you can see, this allows the Monk a cheap and easy way to enhance his unarmed strike. If the costs of enhancing his unarmed strike don't seem to make sense, keep in mind that I used the prices for taking a previously enhanced magic weapon, and further enhancing it using Item Creation feats for purposes of enhancing a Monk's unarmed strike beyond a +1 Enhancement Bonus. While conventional wisdom is that Monk's unarmed strike needs cost double the normal price to enhance it, frankly, this is supposed to be a useful class feature, and it never takes Monk's weapon enhancement bonuses to Unarmed Strike beyond +5.

Because for better or for worse, I think that unless you take Vow of Poverty, getting a permanent enhancement bonus to ANY weapon should cost you something. This way is in line with what martial artists have done throughout history, and is a reasonably fair way to give monk some cheap enhancement to offset the ridiculous pricing on the Amulet of Mighty Fists.

What do you think?

Dabbler wrote:

The change to flat damage with weapon training I like, but it does not home in on what are identified as the primary problems the monk has with unarmed combat and in general: MAD, poor accuracy, and lack of effective enhancement.

Sure it does dabbler, that flat damage includes a to hit bonus just like weapon training. That monk is picking up 5 points of to hit over 20 levels, thats huge.

Aye. +5 over twenty levels. Enhancement is still a problem, but if you just pump it up to +5 with the Amulet, or use this variant of monk to wield a Monk Weapon (trust me, there are FAR superior results using monk weaponry thanks to the Weapon Training Bonus), and you'll be hitting smooth and stylishly.

It covers Accuracy and potentially enhancement, because weapons instantly become better. OR it makes Unarmed Strike a plausible choice, assuming you can forgo enhancement special abilities in favor of flat bonuses. It's pretty elegant actually. Although, if we want to get fancy, I'd add a few new tricks to Unarmed Strike across 20 levels to make it a good weapon choice.

It does. But since both fixes replace or augment existing features, I thought I'd spell it out the way Paizo does, and avoid any confusion.

I wrote up a big treatise on this a while back. I'll dig it up when I have the chance. In short: this is how you make Current Monk work correctly within it's current design theory. It's two changes and no hassle. It's a good band-aid devised by members of my gaming group (Namely one Dan, and one Dave,) and it does the job nicely. We've played around with it, and we think it works. Anyone who wants to playtest it, please do, we want to know if everyone else agrees.

So! Tell me what you think, anybody who is up for playtesting it please run with it, and lets find out if it works as well as I think it does.

If you're going on to play the cleric in higher levels you need the high wisdom to be a good caster, because not all situations can be solved by melee. With guided hand you make your top stat your to hit stat.

High Wisdom not only gives high DCs, but bonus spells and a really good will save.

So you have a flexible battle cleric, that will only deal a little bit less damage but be a great caster alongside.

Think about Frightful Aspect and a quickened Divine Power at level 16; will it really matter if you do 3d6+35 or 3d6+32 with one hit?

Because of the maxed out wisdom, you can do such a thing more often.

Precisely. It's not about your DCs, it's about being able to play the character across 20 levels.

Now, if you know you aren't going past level 10, you might be able to squeak by on a 15 for your entire career.

For the most part though, the majority of clerics are going to want to get that massive Wisdom stat, so as to keep their spellcasting strong.

Guided Hand, with Point Buy, is a stopgap for a serious math problem.

Your average cleric needs Stength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Charisma. It's a brutal combination that leaves your statline in shambles in low point buy.

Since you want Maximum Wisdom for a Cleric anyway, Guided Hand lets you ignore your STR to an extent, and hit someone consistently, at a decent rate. Your damage will be lame, but a Melee Cleric gets a LOT of attack/damage buffs, so it doesn't matter as much.

Channeled Smite is not necessarily a trap, IF you go Guided Hand and Improved Channel Smite.

If you take it on it's own though...it is pretty trappy.

Against most undead you'd use it on, you're often better Channeling to heal the party as you damage it. Sometimes though, it's nice to be able to swing a big pool of dice at the big bad.

...

You'd think that a party of Wizards + 1 Sorcerer would all prep Color Spray a half a dozen times each, stun everything they encounter, and then stab them while they're down until they die.

In all seriousness, it sounds like you've got a group of players that forgot the great secret of spellcasting: It's a Magikarp Power. At low levels: not particularly amazing unless you cherry pick your moves VERY carefully. Overwhelming at high levels.

They decided to believe their own hype instead of read the fine print, methinks.

Fighter Combat Maneuvers vs. Monk Combat Maneuvers.

I would like to take a moment to dispel the notion that Monks are as good as Fighters at Combat Maneuvers.

IN SHORT: a Fighter is potentially +6 better on CMB across 20 levels with Combat Maneuvers, and can have more effective combat maneuvers at MUCH lower levels.

I like your hotfix.

My Thoughts:

-Add Punishing Kick to Bonus Feats
-Mathematically, Incrementally increasing Unarmed Damage Dice is a really bad class feature. Can we Cap unarmed strike damage at 1d6, and add a Static Bonus to attack and damage with Unarmed Strike/Monk Weapons to the tune of +1/+1 at levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20? Give Unarmed Strike unique qualities somehow?

...but yeah. This is some really cool stuff.

Am I the only one bugged by the fact that this sample monk has Weapon Focus at level 1, when it can't meet the BAB Requirement yet? Or the fact that it has Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a Temple Sword it already has proficiency with?

Lets get a legal example of a monk to work with here. :(

DERP! How did I miss that? Thanks Grick.

Simple question: Would someone being knocked prone lower their CMD? How about if they were blinded?

Got a Combat Maneuver specialist to worry about, and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Honestly, rather than a 2nd Edition, why not just a "revised edition" of the current books that makes alterations for balance purposes beyond errata?

It always annoys me that people forget that a Paladin can drop things like Divine Favor and Divine Power on themselves, meaning that even against non-evil enemies, they're still capable of fighting it out after spending one standard action.

And that it stacks with smite when the enemies ARE evil.

All Monk REALLY needs, is the accuracy boost from Weapon Training, offset by reduced damage dice to make it balance out for damage...and then an increased effective Size Category so they can use Combat Maneuvers effectively at higher levels against larger creatures.

Assuming you don't want to rebuild it from scratch. It could use rebuilding from scratch. But the above would be an amazing bandaid.

Interesting! What levels did you end up saying they could choose Weapon Qualities at?

what if we focused all of the monks wisdom based abilities on con instead. what if i wanted to play an unwise monk, still learning the ways of the world. their abilities would be a representation of their physical conditioning instead. it's probably too radical to even seriously contemplate.

And that would literally fix ALL the MAD problems, and could easily qualify as being the function of internal energy based on a greater understanding of your body's physical capabilities. It also represents traditional monk physical conditioning worldwide...hell, you just need to change the normal AC bonus to a Natural Armor bonus instead of an untyped bonus, and it all fits together nicely.

It just irks me that we have to go away from the image of the wise old monk who is wise to the world. -_- I desperately want the traditional image of the wise old monk to WORK, but it's current features kind of make it a MADdening process.

...I've been waiting to throw that pun in this entire thread.

rainzax wrote:

my main beef with "WIS to hit" is that it overloads the ability score (especially if you allow it to damage too!). It would suddenly be doing the job of ST, DX, WIS (itself), and CON.

ST? - to hit, (to damage!)
DX? - to AC
WIS? - Stunning Fist, ki
CON? - Wholeness of Body (healing), especially if this becomes 'fixed'

This is a fallacious post.

First, no Monk is going to dump Con; even if the stupid WoB was balanced. I don't know of any class that dumbs Con, so using Con as a discussion point is pointless.

Second, why is it ok for a fighter to use STR in place of everything, but not a Monk (str to hit, for damage, for ac)?

Or why is ok for a Wiz to use INT and nothing else, or a Cleric using Wisdom?

There are plenty of classes that only need one stat, why not include Monk (or at the very least reduce the MADness to 2 stats)?

Conclusions: ...Argh.

If you're playing a bodyguard monk, then this assumes it is a monk that wants to stay close to one target, and doesn't need to move very fast.

I would suggest going "Flowing Monk + Monk of the Sacred Mountain + Qingong Monk"

It is a monk that wants to stand in one place all the time, gets bonuses to AC and CMD for standing in one place, gets bonuses to AC for being in range of multiple opponents, and can throw people around willy-nilly. If someone power attacks or charges them (or worse, both,) it can do even more terrible things to them. It is a monk that SPECIALIZES in fighting in melee with lots of enemies.

Toss in a little Qinggong powers where possible to add a few nasty spells or powers here and there, as well as Crane Style, and I'd say you'd be in business.

There's already a maneuver master monk.

Yes. But it is a bad archetype, and it should feel bad.

My thoughts:

It doesn't fix their MAD, or the fact that they're trapped in a Full BAB/Three Quarters BAB nightmare, or the fact that Slow Fall should really be some kind of Feather Fall Spell-like Ability. It does however, mitigate a number of the issues, possibly to the point that the class could be played normally with a minimum of grumbling.