There was some mention of Quivering Palm taking a Standard now. If so it's not the same. Or useful.
Non AC defensive Abilities:
Evasion + Imp Evasion
Still Mind
Flawless Mind
Ki Powers
Abundant Step
Diamond Body
Diamond Mind
Diamond Resilience
Diamond Soul
Empty Body
Ki Guardian
Qinggong Power
Slow Fall
Wholeness of Body
Returning to offensive options Style Strikes should not be underestimated. Being able to prevent folks from moving away, free trip attempts on a successful attack, knocking folks back/prone, staggering an opponent the sheer tactical glee of these things is amazing. That's on top of any time you swap in a trip or whatnot during a normal flurry.
It is a Standard now, and the level you can first select it at is 16. So you start with 10+ 8 (1/2 monk level) + Wis. So base dc of 18 which depending on what you're up against most things will probably make unless you're fighting a bunch of humanoids. Cause that thing will seriously mess up a class with poor fort saves.
What are all the AC related defensive abilities + ki costs?
Hmm for AC related ones you have
Style Strike - Defensive Spin gives +4 dodge bonus to AC vs the target you hit
Furious Defense was mentioned earlier 1 point +4 dodge bonus to AC immediate action
Formless Mastery 1 point +4 dodge bonus to AC vs opponents in the stance of a style immediate action
Fun fact you can kick both Furious Defense AND Formless Master on the same immediate action for a combined cost of 3 points. 1 for each ability and I assume the third is the combo cost/tax
Non AC defensive Abilities:
Evasion + Imp Evasion
Still Mind
Flawless Mind
Ki Powers
Abundant Step
Diamond Body
Diamond Mind
Diamond Resilience
Diamond Soul
Empty Body
Ki Guardian
Qinggong Power
Slow Fall
Wholeness of Body
None of which (that the Monk had) are any sort of replacement for AC, which is the subject we were discussing.
That was an extension of the discussion about how Miss Chance, Mirror Images, DR, and the like make AC almost unnecessary.
Not sure what Diamond Resilience or Ki Guardian are, but none of the rest fit that bill.
It is a Standard now, and the level you can first select it at is 16. So you start with 10+ 8 (1/2 monk level) + Wis. So base dc of 18 which depending on what you're up against most things will probably make unless you're fighting a bunch of humanoids. Cause that thing will seriously mess up a class with poor fort saves.
Which makes it the same as Quivering Palm in that respect, which was barely useful as-is, except now it takes your whole (attacking) round to perform instead of being just a part of your full attack.
The Brawler's Knockout is a much better designed version of Quivering Palm in core, and LIGHTYEARS ahead of this version.
Non-AC defensive abilities are great! Monk has access to exactly 0 of them in-class, so that point is moot....does DR/- count?
Yes. Is that what Diamond Resilience does?
Of course that doesn't change my statement. I was speaking of Monk, not Unchained Monk.
What's with all these short durations on the Ki using stuff?
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Yes. Available at 12th level, spend 1 ki point for DR 2/- for 1 minute. Becomes 4/- at 16th level and 6/- at 19th.Yes. Is that what Diamond Resilience does?Non-AC defensive abilities are great! Monk has access to exactly 0 of them in-class, so that point is moot....does DR/- count?
Too little too late. At the level it becomes available it's a pittance.
The Formless options sound like... well, not for PCs. They sound like they're for NPC Monks to use against PC Monks. Because, honestly, how many times do Monks show up in printed products? (*not counting* Ruby Phoenix Tournament!)
Even worse, how many of those Monks have style feats? With the exception of Ruby Phoenix... I can only recall seeing a handful of Monks and none of them with Style feats. But I haven't read even close to all of the modules Paizo has printed nor a fraction of a percent of the PFS scenarios. So I could be wrong, but I doubt it, based off what I've gathered is Paizo's typical choices for NPC design over the years.
1 minute is 10 rounds, do you often find your combats lasting longer that 3-6 rounds?
I have never seen an NPC with a Style feat I did not create with my bare hands because I felt like giving out an ass-whooping to the PCs for some reason or another. And I mostly run APs when I run games.
DR 2/- at level 12 is equal to a Barbarian at the same level, mind it increases at lvl 13 to 3/- for the barb. Anyone wearing Medium Adamantine Armor, or 1 point less than those in Heavy Adamantine Armor. and 2 points off every hit adds up. Take 5 hits and you basically had an extra full Hit Die in health.
Yes. Available at 12th level, spend 1 ki point for DR 2/- for 1 minute. Becomes 4/- at 16th level and 6/- at 19th.Yes. Is that what Diamond Resilience does?Non-AC defensive abilities are great! Monk has access to exactly 0 of them in-class, so that point is moot....does DR/- count?
A Barbarian is getting DR 6/- at that level with no resource expenditure.
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Unchained Monk Class Table
1- Bonus Feat, Flurry of blows (bonus attack), Stunning fist, Unarmed strike
2- Bonus Feat, Evasion
3- Fast movement, Ki Pool, Ki strike (magic)
4- Ki power, Still mind
5- Purity of Body, Style strike (1/round)
6- Bonus Feat, Ki power
7- Ki strike (cold iron/silver)
8- Ki power
9- Improved Evasion, Style strike
10- Bonus Feat, Ki power, Ki strike (lawful)
11- Flurry of Blows (bonus attack)
12- Ki power
13- Style Strike, Tongue of the Sun and Moon (nice!)
14- Bonus Feat, Ki power
15- Style strike (2/round)
16- Ki power, Ki strike (adamantine)
17- Style strike, Timeless Body
18- Bonus Feat, Ki power
19- Flawless mind
20- Ki power, Perfect self
13th level is better than 17th, but again I question why it's so late...it's a 3rd level spell effect. Wizards got that s!@+ 8 levels ago. Clerics 6 before. Seems like something you'd logically get at 9th or 10th, and always has.
Can you still technically take the Qinggong archetype? Gain even MOAR Ki Powers?
One of the options is just Qinggong Power which is just take a power from the Qinggong list
I'm aware. But I mean can I still trade, say, Purity of Body out?
Basically, is there a specific disallowance? If not, it works.
What's with all these short durations on the Ki using stuff?
I was asking myself the same thing. Sure it's on par with a warpriest's blessings but fairly disappointing when you consider Ultimate Magic allowed you to cast barkskin on yourself at 10 minutes per level or give you a free feat like deny death. Really Ultimate Magic made some substantial changes to how a monk could actually function and gave players some fairly powerful options. Unchained is starting to feel like they gave a brawler a warpriest's blessings, tweaked flurry of blows slightly then called it a day. Sure it sounds like an unchained monk might be able to destroy a brawler all while standing on a standard monk's throat with no effort at all but I have to admit I'm feeling a lot more excited about the changes rogues than I am for monks.
I'm curious how other people build monk AC. My 13 Dex, high Wis PFS monk usually had either the highest AC in the party or was very competitive with an extremely tanky other character (counting her qinggong barkskin power as active, as well as her wand of mage armor). Is that not usually the case for other people? I've seen a few posts here saying that they agree that monks usually have high AC and a few saying that monks usually have low.
I prefer a 'balanced' approach when I build a Monk. I try to keep Str, Dex, and Wis equal (or nearly equal), trailed by Con and Int (once again roughly equal to each other) and last by poor, poor, Charisma.
That has a lot of disadvantages, of course. I don't have the hitting power of a Monk that concentrates on Strength, or the extremely high AC of a Dex or Wis build (or the attack bonus of a Dexterity based Monk with Weapon Finesse).
However, while I'm not the 'best' at any one thing, I usually come in a pretty close second or third . . . and there are no glaring weaknesses.
I have seen some folks design monks that totally focused on Strength . . . at the expense of other stats. Those monks tend to have very low AC. Of course, they punch harder as well.
But yes, Mark, I agree with you. I've seen rather more Monks with high AC than low AC.
MA
I'm curious how other people build monk AC. My 13 Dex, high Wis PFS monk usually had either the highest AC in the party or was very competitive with an extremely tanky other character (counting her qinggong barkskin power as active, as well as her wand of mage armor). Is that not usually the case for other people? I've seen a few posts here saying that they agree that monks usually have high AC and a few saying that monks usually have low.I prefer a 'balanced' approach when I build a Monk. I try to keep Str, Dex, and Wis equal (or nearly equal), trailed by Con and Int (once again roughly equal to each other) and last by poor, poor, Charisma.
That has a lot of disadvantages, of course. I don't have the hitting power of a Monk that concentrates on Strength, or the extremely high AC of a Dex or Wis build (or the attack bonus of a Dexterity based Monk with Weapon Finesse).
However, while I'm not the 'best' at any one thing, I usually come in a pretty close second or third . . . and there are no glaring weaknesses.
I have seen some folks design monks that totally focused on Strength . . . at the expense of other stats. Those monks tend to have very low AC. Of course, they punch harder as well.
But yes, Mark, I agree with you. I've seen rather more Monks with high AC than low AC.
MA
Cool, a middle ground; makes sense. I think you'll find that if you keep building like that, the overall offense boosts of the Unchained monk will let that type of build output significantly more damage than you could before.
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It's a psychologically built-in bias for us all to increase our perceived value of losses of something we already have (it's part of how sacred cows come to be). I think (but of course, one can never be sure) that if you read it yourself, you will agree that there is a net gain for both classes (also in particular, if someone is telling you that the rogue was weakened, or that it had to trade out for what it got, you should be very skeptical of that person, as to my knowledge, the rogue strictly received new benefits and still has all its original features).I will say the best thing about my PFS monk is her respectably high AC. Even if I decided to forgo the wand of mage armor, at level 8 she would end up with a AC of 28 when fully buffed, which isn't bad. Mage armor of course brings that total up to 32.
Getting more on the topic of Pathfinder Unchained, I have to say reading this thread I'm a little disappointed. It does sound like there have been some improvements over the core monk but from the sounds of it pretty much every gain comes at a trade off and the overall class is still so much worse than the sacred fist at unarmed combat that there's really no point in not playing a sacred fist if I want to play an unarmed combatant (though proficiency in monk weapons is a minor boon that's hardly worth mentioning since it can easily be cheesed with a one level dip in unarmed fighter).
I'll reserve my judgement until I have the opportunity to see the full class details but I have to admit that I was willing to buy this book just for the improvement to monks and rogues but at this point I'm starting to feel that these classes being meaningfully weaker than every other class is simply part of the design philosophy at Paizo and there's no point in waiting for that to change.
Not trying to imply anything here, but I'm curious.
At one point during the development of the Unchained Monk, did you also feel it was a good idea or consider giving them a net gain similar to the Unchained Rogue?
From what I've seen, it looks like the Rogue was considered to already have a niche, but needed to be better at it. Namely to help compete with the Slayer, Ninja, and Investigator, who all did the Rogue's job as well.
While the changes to the Unchained Monk suggest that the goal was to give them a different niche compared to other melees. Namely, one that relies on a resource pool more heavily than others in order to do things that were better than the usual always on or less versatile resource pool mechanics.
Overall, I feel that the Unchained Monk is certainly better than the CRB version, especially for how I plan to play one. But the areas I was expecting or hoping for improvement, namely the MADness, weren't really changed.
Knocked a friend down and stole his book. Writing this post before the cops arrive. =)
Would have to actually BUILD an Unchained Monk to see how it comes out in play, but quick impressions:
-Most of the Ki Powers are meh at best. Durations are far too short to justify the cost, or the abilities have weird, obnoxious restrictions.
--Standout bad: Wind Jump (I have always HATED the "It's like flying! Except you have to land at the end of your turn! So...it's really NOT like flying." abilities), Wholeness of Body (as ever. Quick fix is to make it 1d8 per 2 Monk levels, plus level, maximum 5d8. As a Cure spell up to Breath of Life, basically.), Formless Mastery (For the low, low price of not getting to use some of the best, most flavorful, and all around interesting Feats in the game, you can spend Ki to have a higher AC against no NPC you'll ever encounter!), Ki blocker (This is only relevant if you expect to fight a guy multiple times thatday for some reason), and Quivering Palm (good GOD, 4 Ki to use, and now it takes a Standard? That is...wow.)
--Standout Good: Insightful Wisdom (EVERY Monk is a Sensei!), Ki Guardian (These are all like Teamwork Feats without the Teamwork. I like.), Ki Metabolism (It's the Internal Alchemist's Breath Mastery, but better. I like that ability.).
--Undecided: One Touch (Neat for if you don't take Flying Kick and have to move and make a Standard. Helps with Stunning Fist), Ki Volley (Would have to see it in play, but seems neat)
-The Style Strikes, on the other hand, are pretty much universally pretty rad.
-Fast Movement is still an Enhancement bonus to speed. I'm very sad about this.
-Flawless Mind comes in WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too late to matter.
Overall, I'm more excited to play one than I thought, but many of the abilities I'd probably never touch.
Cool, a middle ground; makes sense. I think you'll find that if you keep building like that, the overall offense boosts of the Unchained monk will let that type of build output significantly more damage than you could before.I'm curious how other people build monk AC. My 13 Dex, high Wis PFS monk usually had either the highest AC in the party or was very competitive with an extremely tanky other character (counting her qinggong barkskin power as active, as well as her wand of mage armor). Is that not usually the case for other people? I've seen a few posts here saying that they agree that monks usually have high AC and a few saying that monks usually have low.I prefer a 'balanced' approach when I build a Monk. I try to keep Str, Dex, and Wis equal (or nearly equal), trailed by Con and Int (once again roughly equal to each other) and last by poor, poor, Charisma.
That has a lot of disadvantages, of course. I don't have the hitting power of a Monk that concentrates on Strength, or the extremely high AC of a Dex or Wis build (or the attack bonus of a Dexterity based Monk with Weapon Finesse).
However, while I'm not the 'best' at any one thing, I usually come in a pretty close second or third . . . and there are no glaring weaknesses.
I have seen some folks design monks that totally focused on Strength . . . at the expense of other stats. Those monks tend to have very low AC. Of course, they punch harder as well.
But yes, Mark, I agree with you. I've seen rather more Monks with high AC than low AC.
MA
That does sound great but I'd like a more objective measure than "significantly more". Does it let you keep up with other classes like the alchemist, barbarian, and gunslinger?
That does sound great but I'd like a more objective measure than "significantly more". Does it let you keep up with other classes like the alchemist, barbarian, and gunslinger?Cool, a middle ground; makes sense. I think you'll find that if you keep building like that, the overall offense boosts of the Unchained monk will let that type of build output significantly more damage than you could before.I'm curious how other people build monk AC. My 13 Dex, high Wis PFS monk usually had either the highest AC in the party or was very competitive with an extremely tanky other character (counting her qinggong barkskin power as active, as well as her wand of mage armor). Is that not usually the case for other people? I've seen a few posts here saying that they agree that monks usually have high AC and a few saying that monks usually have low.I prefer a 'balanced' approach when I build a Monk. I try to keep Str, Dex, and Wis equal (or nearly equal), trailed by Con and Int (once again roughly equal to each other) and last by poor, poor, Charisma.
That has a lot of disadvantages, of course. I don't have the hitting power of a Monk that concentrates on Strength, or the extremely high AC of a Dex or Wis build (or the attack bonus of a Dexterity based Monk with Weapon Finesse).
However, while I'm not the 'best' at any one thing, I usually come in a pretty close second or third . . . and there are no glaring weaknesses.
I have seen some folks design monks that totally focused on Strength . . . at the expense of other stats. Those monks tend to have very low AC. Of course, they punch harder as well.
But yes, Mark, I agree with you. I've seen rather more Monks with high AC than low AC.
MA
Basing your comparisons around Alchemist, Barbarian or, especially, Gunslinger is a bad idea. Each of these three classes has the capability of completely wrecking most combat encounters a GM will throw against a party, completely by themselves.
So are most combat classes.
Inquisitor can do it. Magus can do it with difficulty.
This new Monk could probably do it if you set your mind to it. With more difficulty than some.
If their Bonus Feats lists still didn't suck so hard it'd be easier. Was REALLY hoping they'd shake that up. Add Style feats, or some of the new Monk flavored Feats like Hamaulatsu and stuff.
So are most combat classes.
Inquisitor can do it. Magus can do it with difficulty.
This new Monk could probably do it if you set your mind to it. With more difficulty than some.
If their Bonus Feats lists still didn't suck so hard it'd be easier. Was REALLY hoping they'd shake that up. Add Style feats, or some of the new Monk flavored Feats like Hamaulatsu and stuff.
To some extent yes, but they aren't nearly as overwhelmingly disruptive as the above are*. I mean, Bomber!Alchemists can cause all kinds of merry heck with campaigns but dishing out so many status effects you might as well take the enemies off the battleboard if the damage from the bombs didn't kill them already. Barbarians can be all but immune to spells and the damage output... Unless the enemy has Wind Wall or Fickle Winds up, you might as well only put enemies on the board and then take them off if a Gunslinger is around; the damage output is just insane.
The only others that really come close are Paladins during a Smite, or Rangers vs. a campaign of their favored enemy. But even then, they're abilities aren't active in every encounter.
At least the Alchemist runs out of bombs though... So there is that.
Mostly the problem with that, like they even did mention before this the Pathfinder rpg line of products, so they don't include any golarion specific feats, so on this part kind of out of luck. Pretty sure Hamatulatsu is golarion specific.
There's other feats though, like Ki Throw, or Cloud Step/Spider Step (though I understand slow fall is a little different now?), or other feats that might be appropriate for the Monk to take, like Wind/Lightning Stance etc.
Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.
Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.
Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!
So are most combat classes.
Inquisitor can do it. Magus can do it with difficulty.
This new Monk could probably do it if you set your mind to it. With more difficulty than some.
If their Bonus Feats lists still didn't suck so hard it'd be easier. Was REALLY hoping they'd shake that up. Add Style feats, or some of the new Monk flavored Feats like Hamaulatsu and stuff.
To some extent yes, but they aren't nearly as overwhelmingly disruptive as the above are*. I mean, Bomber!Alchemists can cause all kinds of merry heck with campaigns but dishing out so many status effects you might as well take the enemies off the battleboard if the damage from the bombs didn't kill them already. Barbarians can be all but immune to spells and the damage output... Unless the enemy has Wind Wall or Fickle Winds up, you might as well only put enemies on the board and then take them off if a Gunslinger is around; the damage output is just insane.
The only others that really come close are Paladins during a Smite, or Rangers vs. a campaign of their favored enemy. But even then, they're abilities aren't active in every encounter.
At least the Alchemist runs out of bombs though... So there is that.
So does it keep up with the fighter? Does it keep up with the slayer? Does it keep up with the "N non-favored" ranger/paladin? The swashbuckler? The Cavalier? The Brawler? The Bloodrager? These are the rest of the D10 full BAB classes.
Does it keep up with a fates favored melee investigator/cleric/oracle/shaman/warpriest? An investigator? Bard? Battle Bard? Skald? Magus? Druid and his companion? Hunter and his companion? These are the 3/4th bab classes the monk used to compare to.
I can't see the Unchained Monk yet, But from what I've been hearing it'll still have a difficult time keeping up with any of these other front liners. You're still needing to run similar stats as you would for a warpriest/cleric/bard/skald, but you don't get the +1/2 to damage rolls or armor (your BAB makes up some of the attack difference). You don't get the armor and wildshape bonuses of the druid. Or the static damage boosters of most the other D10's.
I do feel that the Unchained Monk is better damage dealer than the original monk, but that it's still closer to the bottom/ is the bottom of "usable" front liners. (usable is excluding old rogue as forum mentality prescribes)
There's other feats though, like Ki Throw, or Cloud Step/Spider Step (though I understand slow fall is a little different now?), or other feats that might be appropriate for the Monk to take, like Wind/Lightning Stance etc.Mostly the problem with that, like they even did mention before this the Pathfinder rpg line of products, so they don't include any golarion specific feats, so on this part kind of out of luck. Pretty sure Hamatulatsu is golarion specific.
Or even Feats that are generally applicable to more than a small subset of builds.
Of the base Bonus Feats list, you have:
-Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Spring Attack, Improved Critical, Mobility, and Deflect and Snatch Arrows as Feats that are usable with any build, even though Mobility is meh, Spring Attack is generally pretty bad, and most people probably wouldn't take Deflect/Snatch Arrow if they weren't a bonus.
-Catch Off Guard, Throw Anything, Improved Grapple, Bull Rush, Feint, and Disarm as Feat that are very niche.
-Scorpion Style, Gorgon's Fist, and Medusa' Wrath as hilariously bad trap Feats that people pick because they sound awesome and then cry about picking later once they understand the mechanics.
So, realistically, 3 Feats people would normally take, with 6 more Feats for specialized builds or people who want to have a Feat they can occasionally do something cool with.
Why not throw in some good Feats. Just in core, Lunge and the Blind Fight line are INCREDIBLY thematic Monk Feats.
Ki Throw, Spider Step, Cloud Step, Wind Stance, Lightning Stance are already available as Qinggong Powers
Read the fine print on Qinggong powers. You spend Ki to gain that for a round. Not really a good trade on any of the Feat powers.
Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!
The monk's defining class feature is anime. This is the anime class. We must simply learn to deal with that (or celebrate it, as the case may be).
Just from the CRB (and not including the feats already on the Monk's bonus feat list):
Acrobatic, Acrobatic Steps, Agile Maneuvers, Alertness, Athletic, Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Critical Focus, Defensive Combat Training, Diehard, Endurance, Extra Ki, Fleet, Greater Bull Rush, Greater Disarm, Greater Grapple, Greater Sunder, Greater Trip, Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Sunder, Lightning Stance, Lunge, Nimble Moves, Run, Stand Still, Step Up, Strike Back, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Whirlwind Attack, and Wind Stance.
Every one of those are thematic and fit the concept of the monk.
MA
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I'll save further comment for later, but reading this thread... I'm no longer excited about the Unchained Monk. It seems like it lost almost as much as it gained. Why the hell did they nerf their Will saves and make FoB more restrictive? And I don't really think Wis to hit is all that good... Wis to damage would be better.
I guess I'll just use the new spell list for Summoners and maybe the Unchained Rogue (I don't know much about it yet, but it can't be worse than the base class).
Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
We haven't even seen the monk's final form!
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We haven't even seen the monk's final form!Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
What did the scanner say about the Unchained monk's power level?
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What did the scanner say about the Unchained monk's power level?We haven't even seen the monk's final form!Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
I believe it is somewhat less than ten thousand.
Why the hell did they... make FoB more restrictive?
How did they make it more restrictive? From what I've heard new FoB sounds like a straight upgrade, basically being a free Haste that stacks with Haste.
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I believe it is somewhat less than ten thousand.What did the scanner say about the Unchained monk's power level?We haven't even seen the monk's final form!Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
Less Goku, more Krillin.
At least it ain't Yamcha.
Yeah, it's just Flurry except at some levels it gets less attacks, but all at a higher attack bonus.
Think of this less as a new Monk, and more as the Brawler with some magic tricks.
I believe it is somewhat less than ten thousand.What did the scanner say about the Unchained monk's power level?We haven't even seen the monk's final form!Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
Less Goku, more Krillin.
At least it ain't Yamcha.
Krillin strongest there is!
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Yeah, it's just Flurry except at some levels it gets less attacks, but all at a higher attack bonus.
Think of this less as a new Monk, and more as the Brawler with some magic tricks.
Krillin strongest there is!I believe it is somewhat less than ten thousand.What did the scanner say about the Unchained monk's power level?We haven't even seen the monk's final form!Why can't we just get a Monk that can Fly. Monks should be able to fly if they try hard enough.Because thats TOO anime. Next we'll have yellow haired, energy shooting, flying monks!At least two of those are already possible.
Just working on the third.
And mechanical limbs for Alchemists.
Less Goku, more Krillin.
At least it ain't Yamcha.
I liked Tien more. He basically killed Cooler once.
And then Cooler was basically a high level wizard and made a million clones of himself. I need a DBZ campaign now...
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Tien's Tri-Beam was pretty rad. Destructo Disk is cooler.
Unfortunately all the cool attacks are worthless. Besides Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade.
*pulls up a chair*
*watches the days go by*
Soon. Soon.