Pyrurge's page

Excellent! It's even better now. Now, the rest of the typos:
Page 11, Inventor Class Progression - it's wrong and seems like a repeat of swashbuckler's table. Also, Legendary Inventor's fluff text is a direct copy of a Mythical Inventor.
Page 25, Intelligent legendary item quality - what bonuses does it choose?
Page 57, Hellflame - it seems like I missed that it deals additional (basically double) damage to good creatures. Evil damage is rather situational, but this spell utterly wrecks good targets - it scales like scorching ray at base and deals double the damage to good enemies. The base damage should be scaled back to 2d6+2d6/4d6+4d6 to reflect spells like Chilling Darkness, sorry about that.
Page 58, Dragon Dedication - you can probably add d12 jaws unarmed attack without finesse for Str-dragons. Dragon Transformation unarmed attacks lack finesse, so it's an active downgrade for Dex-dragons. Jaws' decriptions lacks closing parentheses.
Page 61, Elemental Transformation - so do Slam attacks not scale with Striking at all, dealing 2d10+2d6 even with Major Striking runes? The base damage can be adjusted to d10 to remove confusion. There should be a finesse option for Fire and Air too (probably for Water, too).
Page 101, Bend the Blood - further Heightened aren't bolded.
Page 114, Rainbow Dome - Frequency isn't bolded.
There are still some instances of "savings throws".

The feats and spells are very well done. I hope I'll be able to use this system in the future.

Page vi, Mythic Tier - Tier 4 to level 22? How are tiers calculated exactly, shouldn't it be Tier 1 to level 21 and Tier 2 to level 22, or Tier 3 to level 21 (because you gain 2 boosts and a feat) and Tier 4 to level 22? If you exchange an ancestry/class/general feat for a mythic feat, does that affect your tier?
Page vi, Surge - Should the bonus to all checks apply to saves too?
Page 9, Fighter description - "If martial skills are truly an artist"
Page 10, Major Weapon Specialization should be bold.
Page 11, Legengary Inventor has a wrong description.
Page 12, Strategic Strike misses a white space between additional and 6d6.
Page 13, shouldn't Magus gain a 10th level spell slot on 23rd level as per future-proofing guidelines? Also, there should be a special feature that describes the flavor and mechanics of their 10th level spells. Same for Summoner. Mythic Heightening should be 21st level or be listed after 22nd level features, same for Summoner.
Page 17, Sneak Attack - should be 5d6 as per table.
Page 19, Major Eidolon Specialization is listed twice, one of these should be normal WS for summoners. Eidolon's proficiencies should be increased with mythic boosts too.
Page 23, Legendary Spellcasting feat - so when do you gain a 10th level slot, at 20th or 24th level?
Page 23, Futureproofing - should classes that only get 9th level spells gain a 10th level slot at 21st or 23rd level?
Page 28, Standard Progression - the text above says that characters should gain a mythic feat at 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th, and 25th levels, so why the chart lists mythic feats at 18th and 23rd levels?
Page 33, Mindbreak - shouldn't the damage scale a bit? The failure effect is very debilitating, usually effects like confused last for 1 round on failure instead of 5.
Page 43, Evocative Blast - the 1-action version scales weirdly, shouldn't it deal half damage of normal blast? Instant Movement lacks any component.
Page 49, Whirring Doom - lacks components, also really weak. Whirlwind Strike doesn't have a penalty and doesn't consume a focus point.
Page 50, Daemon Powers - spells aren't italicized. Daemon Dedication's dimension door isn't italicized.
Page 51, Devour Soul - should have a requirement of grabing the target.
Page 55, Infectious Rage - shouldn't Success also grant a chance to break the effect early?
Page 57, Hellflame - deals damage and scales like a 2nd level spell, probably should deal 3d6/6d6 damage at base.
Page 58, Dragon Transformation - you should mention how the 1d6 energy damage from Jaws scales, probably should scale with weapon damage dice. Also, Draconic Powers should probably have the choice of Int or Cha.
Page 61, Elemental Transformation - how Slam damage scales with weapon damage dice? You should spell that out, including the energy damage, like dragon's jaws. Elemental Cascade's damage starts like the damage of a 2nd level spell, probably not a mistake, but still.
Page 64, Fey Dedication - circumstance bonus starts at +2 instead of +1.
Page 65, Wild Hunt - Wild Hunt actions aren't bolded. Nymph's Beauty lack the Focus Beauty action.
Page 68 - it's Hierophant, not Heirophant.
Page 74, Marshal Abilities - the feats are uncapitalized.
Page 75, Unwavering Skill - chose, not choose.
Page 78, Occult Defenses - critical success always means the foe is unaffected.
Page 80, Unparalleled Digestion - Engulf's Effect isn't bolded.
Page 83, Curse of Nature Unloving - "piercing, and slashing, as well as to".
Page 88, Autonomous Spell - "of yourtheir cantrips". Also, busted as hell, at least make it a reaction and once per day.
Page 89, First Taboo - Will is uncapitalized.
Page 91, Eternal Fear - Success is incredibly strong, and it's a selective AoE too? Make it frightened 1.
Page 100, Vampire Decication - Surge benefit has an extra white space, Embrace isn't bolded.
Page 101, Bend the Blood - Heightened benefits aren't bolded.

Aeon, Alignment, and Demon lack spellcasting benefits, additional skill feat, or 4 Hit Points per feat clause. They probably should get 4 HP per feat.

Heal N damage should be worded as heal N Hit Points.

Savings throw should be saving throw.

Mythic spellcasting archetypes shouldn't say "spell list in this book", it's not the Core Rulebook. Remove every instance of "in this book".

I'll proofread the rest of the book, starting with Mythic Feats, later.

I like this even more now! An excellent addition to the game.

That's a valid point, but I struggle to think of the solution. The raw value of Int, if we ignore Will saves, is much greater than that of Willpower - 8 skills, Lores, Perception, and skill trainings are vastly superior to 3 skills, even if they are applicable in combat (as Perception is applicable in every combat by virtue of being used for initiative, and skills like Crafting and Medicine are essential for every party). Willpower needs to have Will saves to remain competitve.

The one solution I have is to copy WhiteShark's buff to Int - characters would also receive a number of skill increases equal to their Int mod, in addition to skill trainings and everything else. Would that make Int too powerful, when combined with the other changes I made?

On an unrelated note, those are Sample Ability Scores through level 20 if we don't cut the ability boosts from backgrounds
10 10 10 10 base
12 12 10 10 ancestry
14 14 10 10 background
16 14 10 10 class
18 16 12 10 free
19 18 14 10 level 5
20 19 14 10 level 10
21 20 16 10 level 15
22 20 16 12 level 20

Do you mean giving Int Will save on top of everything it already has? It would only work if you could apply the highest of Int and Wpw to Will saves. Otherwise, you'd be left with an ability score that determines Will saves, Perception (most importantly), Arcana, Crafting, Lore, Medicine, Nature, Occultism, Religion, Society, Survival, and the number of starting skill tranings, and an ability score that getermines Deception, Diplomacy, and Intimidation. It's pretty obvious which one is better. Even if you could choose a mental ability score to add to Will saves, Intelligence decides a lot more than Willpower. I think that you underestimate the power of Perception and 9 skills with additional skill trainings.

Alternating increments can work well, yeah. 3 boosts at 1st, 5th, and 15th levels, and 2 boosts at 10th and 20th levels result in 13/20 boost distribution compared to the standard 20/30. 65% versus 66%. Pretty neat.

If you do so, those are Sample Ability Scores through level 20 (SotDL-style Ability Scores)
10 10 10 10 base
12 12 10 10 ancestry
14 12 10 10 background
16 12 10 10 class
18 14 12 10 free
19 16 14 10 level 5
20 18 14 10 level 10
21 19 16 10 level 15
22 20 16 10 level 20

Perhaps, backgrounds can still give 2 boosts with this variant of these rules. If you dump Intelligence in this set-up, you effectively dump both Intelligence and Wisdom (except for the Will saves). It's more punishing to leave ability scores low.

This thread is largely inspired by WhiteShark's
Condensed Ability Scores.

Alternative Ability Scores presented in GMG are a very interesting concept of rebalancing the classic 6 ability scores by fundamentally changing them. However, it does have some issues - mainly, Strength becomes the new God Stat, while Dexterity becomes functionally useless. Refusing to split Dex into Agi and Dex fixes some problems, but Intelligence still needs a significant buff, and Wisdom is left slightly underpowered. So let's go one step further, and merge the mental stats too.

I propose reducing the number of attributes from 6 to 4, leaving ability scores very similar to those of Shadow of the Demon Lord - Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Willpower:

• Strength does everything that both Strength and Constitution do;
• Dexterity is mostly unchanged, but can be added to damage rolls with finesse attacks (if better than Strength);
• Intelligence does everything both Intelligence and Wisdom do, with the exception of Will saves;
• Willpower does everything Charisma does, and also applies to Will saves;
• Backgrounds only give one boost;
• The free boosts at 1, 5, 10, 15, and 20 are reduced in number from 4 to 3.

Constitution apex items become Strength apex items, Headband of Inspired Wisdom becomes Intelligence apex item, and Sage's Lash becomes Willpower apex item. Clerics, Druids, Monks, and Rangers can choose Intelligence or Willpower as their spellcasting attribute at the character creation. Thief racket can be reconceptualized as a skill-monkey racket, perhaps allowing you to reroll critically failed skill checks twice per day and giving trainings in Stealth and Thievery. Given that Strength-based characters now only need to concentrate on a single attribute, Bulwark trait can be removed from the game.

Sample Ability Scores through level 20 (Default Ability Scores)
10 10 10 10 10 10 base
12 12 10 10 10 10 ancestry
14 14 10 10 10 10 background
16 14 10 10 10 10 class
18 16 12 12 10 10 free
19 18 14 14 10 10 level 5
20 19 16 16 10 10 level 10
21 20 18 18 10 10 level 15
22 20 18 18 12 10 level 20

Sample Ability Scores through level 20 (SotDL-style Ability Scores)
10 10 10 10 base
12 12 10 10 ancestry
14 12 10 10 background
16 12 10 10 class
18 14 12 10 free
19 16 14 10 level 5
20 18 16 10 level 10
21 19 18 10 level 15
22 20 18 12 level 20

All in all, these new ability scores look remarkably balanced. Strength is important for HP and Fortitude saves, Dexterity is important for Reflex saves and several practically useful skills, Intelligence is important for Perception and utility skills, and Willpower is important for Will saves and social situations. Thoughts?

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And the unarmed damage die increases of Lethal Form and Adapt not stacking is fully intentional, which is why I repeated that rule in Adapt. The part in Adapt is purely for the purpose of making the early game a little less sad. An earlier version had them stacking and d10 agile finesse weapons or thinking of giving something to already d12s was a bit silly…

Can't say I'm a fan of that choice, then. Adapt looks like it's supposed to be Shifter's main combat feature, akin to Fighter's weapon proficiency or Rogue's Sneak Attack; having it suddenly drop in power after 7th level feels janky and unrewarding. +2 to one attack is usually slightly worse than just making two attacks, and after gaining Lethal Strikes, downgrading it to such a degree (+1 to your attacks for the rest of the turn as an action is barely worth it, or not worth it at all) makes the "+1 to hit" option startlingly bad. It still retains its more utility-based uses, but becomes nigh-unusable as a direct damage boost it was before, and, as I see it, Shifter needs some boost to attacks - Animal Barbarian is pretty similar, yet still gains +2/+5/+12 damage to all attacks as it levels, without the need to constantly spend an action to Rage. +1 to hit and +1-4 to damage felt like it was the right choice, considering Shifter's other benefits. These benefits are not enough on their own, though.

Upgrading the d12s can be fixed by changing Adapt's damage die increase to the flat increase similar to the one of Barbarian's.

That's a remarkably competent work. Some notes: there's a "feaunt" typo in Ancestry Feats 5th feature, "mathcing" and "resuslts" in Maneuver Adaptation feat, "Adabtability" in Unlimited Adaptability feat, Immediate Search's trigger is unfinished, and Supreme Flight's level is 18 instead of 16. Also, you would technically be unable to increase your unarmed attack's damage die with Adapt upon gaining Lethal Form, because you can't stack multiple damage die increases.

Incredible Senses come too early, considering that you only get Vigilant Senses at 9th. It should be closer to Ranger's or Rogue's Perception progression.

Shifter Venom seems remarkably useless, but I guess that's the usual trend with poison-style feats. Powerful Venom somewhat redeems it, but that's two feats spent on a subpar ability.

Overall, this looks really solid. I'll probably use it with my group, once the immediate mistakes are fixed.

For those of you who didn't like Witch's design in PF2e I would recommend taking a look at the Legendary Cabalist. This class became the official Witch of my group. I'm not getting anything out of it, but all the problems I have with the current class are solved by Cabalist. For example: Thematic gain more focus being part of the core of the class instead of just a feat like the brewmasters’ society that allows your familiar learns alchemical formulas when it levels up. Speaking of feats this class is packed with awesome feats! for example: Hair Travel which allows the Cabalist with 1 action to move using her hair gaining a +10 status bonus to speed and the hair gains the spider climb effects. Plus, all the new feats paizo releases for Witch i just add to Cabalist list.

I've personally found Cabalist, or at least some of its animas, problematic due to some really unbalanced circumstance bonuses to its spell DC. +1+1/4 of your level bonus to DC is a LOT - even +1 is very notable and, as far as I know, without precedent; +6 to DC just breaks the game's math, and it's generally rather easy to trigger it. I'd flat-out ban the animas with that effect, or nerf them to just grant the +1 bonus.

Similarly, Bizarre Weaponry feat chain is problematic too, with an entry feat that gives you rather powerful natural weapons at expert proficiency at the 1st level, a 4th level feat that straight-up allows you to attack with Int instead of Str (and use it for damage too), an 8th level feat that grants a d20 fatal trait on Empowered Tongue, and a 12th level feat that increases your proficiency with your bizarre weapons to master at 12th level, to legendary at 18 level, and gives you Magus' Spellstrike. It makes you a better martial than most martials, breaking several conventions in the process. Maybe that's required to make unarmed Cabalist actually useful, but that's going really, really far.

These two factors combined convinced me to just use Witch and buff it instead of trying to nerf Cabalist to make it balanced. Legendary Kineticist and Mesmerist were fine, but Cabalist is… iffy.

If I were, for example, to play a rune patron witch instead of wizard I would lose 33% of my spell slots and an extra max level slot for the ability to cast discern secrets cantrip. Same familiar, same casting stat, same armor, saves, weapons...really?? Archetypes have more differentiation but this is an entire class!

I've noticed the same thing. You can see it my first homebrew Witch buff proposal here. It quickly became apparent, however, that people didn't like the change to spellcasting (a safer and easier option with a past precedent) in favor of better hexes, so I tried to make a second version.

I still think that even with my proposed, egregiously buffed hex cantrips, Witch needs another buff to really compete.

No. Demoralize and Scare to Death are two different and unrelated actions, and Versatile Performance and Frightening Appearance only affect Demoralize. Likewise, Flourishing Finish is distinct from Demoralize. So, feats that affect Demoralize do not affect these two actions.

Oh, I made a post full of buff proposals for hexes a while ago. Would've shared it earlier if that had come up initially — maybe the alternate takes will help with ideas.

Yeah, I've seen them. Those proposals are interesting, but seemingly made with buffing it to the level of the strongest hex in mind, maybe slightly higher; my proposal tries to bring hexes to the level of Inspire Courage.

Still, this Nidge Fate idea is very good, and I can add disabling light blindness on allies to Shroud of Night.

Between polearms, cleric domains and embedded ioun stones, I'm starting to worry that this archetype isn't going to do much for Wizard spellcasting.

Paizo are evidently extremely careful about power creep (which is rather justified, given how the 1st edition fared in that respect). APG classes are generally weaker than their CRB counterparts, new feats are generally on the same power level or weaker (with some very rare accidental outliers), and Flexible Preparation taking away the third of your slots shows that the new archetypes are not going to be power upgrades either. I very much doubt that Runelord's going to empower Wizard - more likely, it'll be a pure flavor choice.

That being said, I'd be fine with the witch getting more spells known for free than a Wizard. Maybe like 3 or 4 per level up instead of 2?

No, that wouldn't be nearly enough. Even if Witch got access to the entire spell list automatically, I'd still rate Bard, Cleric, and Druid significantly higher.

Maybe look for a fitting school or trait and limit the slot to spells with that school/trait? My only gripe with that is that non-school traits are often not broad enough to give a good slection and limiting by school traits is probably too close to specialist wizards.

That is a solution, but I dislike it due to its inelegance. Choosing by school traits clashes with the theme and flavor of Witch class, and is too close to specialist Wizards too. I can whip up a custom restriction for each Patron Theme pretty easily (only spells with Will saving throws for Curse, only heals and summons for Wild, etc.), but it'll be hard to balance and very heavy-handed. House rules are at their best when they are concise and easy to understand and remember.

I personally think you overvalue how much of a restriction specialization (or universalism) is. I played as a Wizard a few times (that's my favorite class, even in 2e), and I didn't have much trouble filling the specialist slots with school spells. Sure, sometimes you'd want to prepare something else in that slot, but the situations where there are no spells of a particular school that fit into a slot of a particular level were fairly rare - almost nonexistent, if you were willing to be creative. A spare True Strike, Feather Fall, False Life, or Magic Missile never hurts, and Drain Bonded Item is so powerful a feature that I'd choose a specialist Wizard spellcasting with DBI instead of a buffed Witch's one any day of the week.

Universalism is likewise fine - the fact that you're unable to prepare a fourth spell per level is offset by effectively having a versatile selection of the three spells you did prepare, and in my opinion, being able to sometimes flexibly choose to cast a second True Strike or Haste instead of Fireball is well worth the hassle. There's no need to divide prepared and spontaneous casters like that - Universalist simply has a combination of both worlds, which is not an objective drawback. Not to mention the ability to cascade your spells with Bond Conservation.

We can agree to disagree on the matter of Wizard's spellcasting restrictions. However, I must say that even if Witch's spellcasting, in vacuum, becomes superior to any other class, is that a problem when other classes' features may serve as a counterweight? The classes are balanced as the whole, and besides, Paizo didn't see a problem with sharing a playtest class with the spellcasting I propose - there's nothing wrong with it from the design perspective. They only ended up changing it as a response to the need to shift the focus to Hexes (to the detriment of the class, in my opinion).

I won't comment much on Sorcerer, given that I don't have much experience with the class, but Sorcerer still has 4 slots that they can use to cast any of the three remaining spells. This restriction is less of a big deal to them than to the prepared spellcasters, who must cast the fourth spell they have; the bloodline spells can be treated as a bonus you can sometimes cast, not as an obligation to fulfill.

Witch is a class that's considered underwhelming by many. It can be built well in a right campaign, but can also be disastrously weak in different circumstances due to its focus on hexes (which can be too situational) and familiar (which is not something an entire class should depend on). Compared to the likes of Bard, Cleric, or Druid, Witch sacrifices its durability (with 6 HP per level and no armor proficiency); compared to Sorcerer and Wizard, Witch sacrifices its spellcasting (getting 3 spells per level like non-specialized spellcasters instead of their 4). All these classes have their own additional tools, often as powerful as what Witch gets to compensate for its weaknesses. Most homebrewers try to buff Witch's strong side, the Hexes and ability to Sustain Spells with Cackle. That's a valid path, but I prefer another one.

The Playtest Witch was a specialized spellcaster, getting 4 spells slots per level, and wasn't very different from its finalized form. The most meaningful change, besides losing one fourth of its spells, was that Basic Lesson got separated into a feat and Patron Themes, with focus spells converted into very powered-down one-action cantrips. It was a positive change, but I don't consider it to be that overwhelming. Hexes are no Compositions, being much more situational, and, in current form, are not something that a class should be built on.

Thus, I propose a buff in two steps:

1) Make Witch a specialized 4-slots-per-level spellcaster like in Playtest.

2) Remove some unnecessary restrictions from the weaker Hexes, with Shroud of Night affecting all creatures without Greater Darkvision, and Wilding Word affecting every creature type.

While that's a powerful buff, I don't think it to be overwhelming. There are five points of comparison:

1) Fervor Witch and Cloistered Cleric are both prepared Divine casters. Witch gains more slots, Stoke the Heart, a familiar, and a bigger selection of focus spells. Cleric gains Divine Font (which I consider to be comparable to the expanded spellcasting, maybe even better with investment in Charisma), more HP, a domain, better Will saving throws, possibility of specializing in Heal/Harm, and, most importantly, access to the entire divine list without needing to Learn any Spells. Overall, I think they are equal, with each having their own niche, instead of Cleric being overwhelmingly superior.

2) Primal Witches and Druid are both prepared Primal spellcasters, but Druid gains much better defense, having access to Hide armor and more HP, better Will saving throws, much better focus spells (or comparable ones, if Witch has access to Glacial Heart), order benefits like an animal companion, and, again, access to their entire spell list instead of a small slice of learned spells. Again, in my opinion, the buffed spellcasting evens those odds.

3) Occult Witches were clearly inferior to Bards in almost every respect. Inspire Courage and Dirge of Doom are much more powerful than Hexes, and Bards also have 8 HP per level and access to light armor. This way, at least, Witch is better at actual spellcasting.

4) Wizard is a harder sell. They now have similar spellcasting (with specialist wizards trading the restrictions on prepared spells for one more versatile spell of the highest level, and universalists being straight up more versatile with their slots), Patron Familiar is slightly inferior to Arcane Thesis, because Wizard can actually choose theirs, and Spell Substitution/Blending is no joke, and, finally, the school spell is put against Discern Secrets. The Hex wins, because Witch can get actually good focus spells, but Wizard has access to Clever Counterspell and Spell Penetration too. Overall, I'd say that Buffed Witch may be slightly more powerful, but Wizard still has a niche in other Arcane Theses.

5) Sorcerer puts spontaneous spellcasting, blood spells, and Blood Magic against prepared spellcasting, Hexes, and Patron Familiar. Blood Magic is unique, while a familiar is not, but the same can be said about Hexes. Still, spontaneous spellcasting will always have its niche, and Charisma is a stronger key stat due to Demoralize and Bon Mot existing.

By and large, the buff seems to make Witch more or less as powerful as other spellcasters without the need to comprehensively alter every Hex or class feature, which is a win in my book. I'm open to your opinions on the matter.

It seems like you missed that Animal Skin feat gives a Dexterity modifier cap of +3. That makes it equal to medium armor and inferior to full plate armor, until you get Greater Juggernaut at 13th level, making it equal to full plate. You still need high Dexterity for that, unlike with medium and heavy armor, and you're seriously weaker outside your rage.