One more added note for the blooded hag: if they take a bloodline arcana which affects sorcerer spells as a hex, it should affect witch spells instead. This means, RAW, there's some bloodline arcana that won't function at all unless the character is multiclassed as a sorcerer (including that of the aforementioned psychic bloodline). Again, not something that altogether destroys the archetype's usefulness (there are plenty of bloodline arcana that don't specify sorcerer spells), but an oversight nonetheless.
I appreciate the review, EZG! Quite proud of how the book came out, and especially pleased that you enjoyed it! That said, I'll go ahead and put in some replies to your criticisms so there's something documented as an "official" RAI interpretation for the things you had questions on.
Regarding the Blooded Hag, not switching hex saves to Cha was an oversight; I fully intended hexes to be Cha-based. I can see Int being used, of course, and would saw RAW it would be, but RAI is Cha for hexes. Bloodline powers, however, are not in fact treated as hexes; that only applies to bloodline arcana, which the blooded hag can't take normally, but can take in place of and treat as a hex. If you do go the "hexes are still Int-based" route, it'd make the Sage bloodline absolutely perfect for this.
How the archetype overlaps with bloodlines that provide a familiar, however, was not an oversight. The fact that they still possess a familiar does indeed make the 1st level bloodline power from Arcane bloodline useless. It also makes the 3rd level bloodline power of Serpentine less powerful, but at least that's got a function still. Keep in mind that there's the Sage and Envenomed bloodlines, which just so happen to replace the bloodline powers that provide familiars, though. As an example of this in action, if the blooded hag chooses the psychic bloodline, their spell remain arcane spells, but they can pick up the bloodline arcana as a hex to change over to psychic spellcasting. This obviously benefits some bloodlines more than others (Sage and Psychic in particular come to mind), but only as much as it would benefit a sorcerer, and you not only gain it later than a traditional sorcerer, but lose a hex in the process.
I believe your other major concerns regarded the insufflator's hag's breath. The intention was indeed to allow it to provoke AoOs, I simply forgot to specify that. In retrospect, I should have made it a spell-like ability, since they provoke by default, but it is what it is. RAW it doesn't provoke, RAI it does, and I'll leave it up to the GM to determine their preference. As for Wicked Breath on the insufflator, it uses the range of the feat, not that of hag's breath. This does mean Wicked Breath spells always have 10 ft. more range for line or 5 ft. more for cone than hag's breath hexes.
I should probably also note an intention that I missed for the whitelighter, even though you didn't actually comment on this particular hiccup: they should be able to cast spells on unintelligent enemies (i.e. anything with less than 3 Int) if they've witnessed them harming their allies. RAW, if their ally is getting eaten alive by wolves, they can't really do anything about it unless an ally transfers chosen charge status to one of the wolves. It does conjure a rather comical image of the whitelighter sipping tea, telling their ally the wolves are probably just playing and that he probably didn't need that arm anyway since he has another perfectly functional one... but I would assume the guy getting eaten isn't going to find the situation as amusing. I also failed to classify the wood witch's domain spells; they're arcane, just like the rest of their spells.
I'm honestly very surprised you weren't able to poke too many holes in the book. Surprised, and quite proud. Once again, EZG, thank you for the review!
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering what archetypes you guys think were either cool concepts that fell flat in execution or need to be updated to make them more relevant with newer official content.
I think for me, the White-Haired Witch is one such archetype. My very first time looking through the witch's hexes, I saw Prehensile Hair and thought, "I'd love to have this be permanent..." And lo, from on high came the White-Haired Witch... except it has a number of problems that make it a lackluster archetype. Since their attacks still rely on Strength/Dexterity and their 1/2 BAB progression to hit, but require Intellect to deal damage and make successful grapples, it makes them somewhat MAD, and they completely lose out on hexes, many of which would prove useful to allow them to hit more competently. Personally, I'd have given them a bonus to their attack rolls on their hair attack equal to 1/2 their Witch levels (giving them pseudo 3/4 BAB with such attacks), and perhaps allowed them to take a limited selection of hexes as well as rogue talents at 10th level or higher, and maybe even give their hair a 10 ft. reach out the gate and have it gain an extra 5 ft every 5 levels.
Anyone else have some archetypes they would like to use if it was just better mechanically?
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I do want to add a note: while I agree with his assessment about 98%, I do want to note that there's a slight issue with how he assessed the Colorburst Infusion. He states that it's "minimum level 8," when it's an 8th level wild talent. This could be misinterpreted as it being usable by an 8th level kineticist, which I agree would be absolutely absurd for an infusion that replicates the effects of prismatic spray. Because it's an 8th level talent, however, it would normally not be available to a player earlier than 17th level. It is possible to powergame your kineticist to get it as early as 13th by taking a light kineticist with the Kinetic Prodigy feat and either brutal mutation or the elemental scion archetype (since they'll be treated as a 16th level kineticist by then for the purpose of selecting infusion wild talents), which is 1 level ahead of prepared 9/9 casters. I do feel it's somewhat balanced by the fact that, to spread its effects out, it requires a form infusion and no form infusion available to light spreads it further than a 20 ft. radius (or 30 ft. cone or 60 ft. line if you use dragon pact kineticist, but they can't pick it up until 17th anyway) when the default spell is a 60 ft. cone. However, it is incredibly easy to abuse in conjunction with flurry of blasts (as well as the improved/greater variants), the elemental annihilator's flurry of devastation, or the elemental purist's elemental apocalypse. In retrospect, it is a fairly broken infusion, and could have done to reduce the chances of its effects even manifesting, making it unavailable for simple blasts, and/or causing its base blast to deal minimum damage and only be able to affect a number of targets up to 1/2 Con mod. *shrug* Might be something to look into as errata.
Oh, and I also somewhat disagree with stacking of crit rate being such a big no-no for the arrow mutation and kinetic lancer, but I can see his point on those as well, given how much raw damage even a baseline blast can put out (especially with a kinetic blade/whip full attack with haste factored in). Considering it stacks after things like keen, one cannot stack their blasts' critical rate higher than 17-20, requiring them to also take kinetic lancer or energy roper archetypes alongside arrow mutation. This could be increased as high as 16-20 on a kinetic lancer or 17-20 on an energy roper if you include keen blast from Legendary Kineticists, but if your GM is already allowing both KoP and LK into their campaign in its fullest, they just might be biased toward kineticists enough to allow it.
Question about the Telekinetic Muscle feat in KoP3: Does it affect carry weight at all?
As written, no it does not. It only affects Strength checks or Strength-based skill checks (such as Climb or Swim). Depending on the GM you might be able to get away with having it affect something like, say, Intimidate if you possess Intimidating Prowess, but it really depends on if your GM interprets "adds your Strength score to..." as making the skill based on your Strength.
You do make a good point, though; I could imagine Telekinetic Muscle affecting carry weight. That'd be a decent idea for a wild talent or feat. You'd need to be somewhat careful with how it stacks with other effects and items such as ant haul or muleback cords.
Heh, ya know, now that I think of it, we really should have included a personal range ant haul 1st or 2nd level wild talent; I could easily see it as an aether or viscera talent.
1- I'm assuming it's two, but I agree it could have been clearer.
2- Vital Strike is it's own action so I guess no.
3- It seems the only things you can do with them is what's written under bonded manifestation. Otherwise they would have just called them natural attacks and solved all of their problems.
4-They use the damage of the ectoplasmic manifested phantom, whatever it may be, so it should work.
5- Again, I would just look at the attack part of the phantom sheet and use those numbers
6- with how much he exciter changes the phantom I doubt they would stack.
1 - Gotcha. I'm running with the assumption that the fact that each tendril acts individually means each performs an individual attack, but it's probably best to leave that to the DM to determine.
2/3 - This means I can pull VS and IVS out of my feats. I was also going to go with Cornugon Smash and Hurtful, but all Hurtful does is guarantee I could use my weapon instead of my tendrils to make the swift-action attack.
4/5 - I've seen opinions go both ways, so it's another thing I'll need to figure out with the DM. Considering phantoms get feats anyway though, it seems like it'd be almost too easy to beef up your tendrils by giving them any feat you can that enhances their slams. *shrug* At worst, I'll just have wasted time plotting the phantom's feats out.
6 - I was figuring. Honestly it's more beneficial to go Gendarme anyway, so that's the direction I'll be taking this. It does mean an additional companion to plot out, but that's fine.
Sorry to bump so early but I had another idea in the very likely event that I can't Vital Strike with the tendrils, but I'm not sure if it'll work:
If I take a level in Ghost Rider Cavalier, how does that interact with Exciter Spiritualist? Will the phantom I already had gain the ability to become a mount? Will it do so, but lose that ability since it needs to be manifested? I presume that (similar to getting an animal companion or familiar through two different sources) I wouldn't gain a second phantom, correct?
I've been working on an exciter spiritualist build with some intention on making heavy use of the lashes granted to them by the spiritualist's bonded manifestation ability. After taking a closer look, though, I'm beginning to doubt my original plans will work out, meaning I'll need to rework a few things. Before I do though, I'm gonna need some clarifications, because so far the wording for the abilities seems incredibly vague. For reference, here's the text of the ectoplasmic variant of the ability, with the section I'm concerned with bolded:
Ectoplasmic Bonded Manifestation wrote:
When a spiritualist uses this ability and chooses ectoplasmic form, she gains an ectoplasmic shield that protects her without restricting her movement or actions. She gains a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class; this bonus applies to incorporeal touch attacks. The ectoplasmic shield has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure chance. At 8th level, the spiritualist also sprouts a pair of ectoplasmic tendrils from her body. Once per round as either a swift or a standard action (spiritualist’s choice), the spiritualist can use one or both tendrils to attack creatures within her melee reach (using the attack bonus and damage dice of her ectoplasmic manifested phantom) or to manipulate objects. She can even use that action to have one tendril make an attack and the other manipulate an object, as long as that object can be manipulated with one hand. At 13th level, the phantom’s ectoplasm clings to the spiritualist like a suit of armor. This grants the spiritualist a +6 armor bonus to AC without imposing an armor check penalty, an arcane spell failure chance, or any reduction in speed. At 18th level, the spiritualist can take a full-round action to attack all creatures within her melee reach with her tendrils (using the attack bonus and damage dice of her ectoplasmic manifested phantom). When she does, she rolls the attack roll twice, takes the better of the two results, and uses that as her attack roll result against all creatures within her melee reach. If the better attack roll threatens a critical hit, the spiritualist chooses one target that she hit to confirm the critical hit against. The other attacks that hit are considered normal hits rather than critical threats.
1 - If I choose to have both tendrils attack, is that effectively one strike or two I'm allowed to make?
2 - Am I allowed to make my tendril strikes with Vital Strike?
3 - Can I use the tendril strikes for anything aside from the swift or standard attack issued by the ability (such as using a tendril to strike with the Hurtful feat)?
4 - If the phantom has Improved Natural Attack (slam) do my tendrils still use the normal damage or the damage after it's augmented by the feat?
5 - How about my attack rolls if the phantom possesses feats such as Weapon Focus? And do I add my Str/Dex bonus or theirs?
2: Yes.
3: Powerful strike and INA don't stack because they both improve your attack as if you were a larger size. Either stacks with Enlarge Person because that actually changes your size. That makes two steps. No idea how you got five.
4: You're making the attack, not the phantom. Besides, "Emotional focus abilities that affect or require a manifested phantom are lost, except for any aura gained by the phantom at 7th level" which also stops you using Powerful Strike.
5: No, see 4.
6: I agree with Onyx. Edit: I mean Pennate.
7: No.
I was referring to the damage die steps, rather than steps of effective size. That means I don't have to waste a feat on INA though, so that's good.
Powerful Strike is something I'm able to use via the Exciter's Excitation ability (unless I instead choose to go with the Strength Bonus ability, which I likely never would). It applies its effects to tendrils I gain when I partially manifest the phantom with Bonded Manifestation at 8th or higher. Since gaining Power Attack is part of that ability, then the character should be gaining Power Attack on top of the increased tendril damage as part of temporarily gaining Powerful Strike.
As an aside, I find it funny that my character apparently becomes less intimidating when they go into an anger-fueled rapture (considering they lose the benefits of Skill Focus (Intimidate) in the process).
1. Nothing in the trait's description prohibits you from selecting a spell you don't know. Also, remember that the trait only affects the level of a spell that has been affected by metamagic and cannot allow a caster to prepare a spell in a lower level slot, so there could be no "-1st level" spell.
That's about what I figured. I'm thinking I should apply it to something like shadow conjuration or ectoplasmic hand so I can bring in a flank buddy in the middle of a rapture.
Pennate wrote:
2. If your rapture counts as a rage for the purpose of the feat, then I would say yes.
It acts in all ways like a bloodrage except for not counting as one for the purpose of qualifying for feats/abilities and you can't rapture after quitting a rapture for 1 minute, so sounds like Furious Spell is a go.
Pennate wrote:
3. Improved Natural Attack and Powerful Strike are both effective size increases, so they would stack with Enlarge Person, but not with each other.
Huh. I would have thought enlarge person was going to be what caused stacking problems. Well if that's the case, there's little point in bothering to take INA. Side note: I actually miscalculated it as a step lower than it should be, so it should have been 4d6 > 4d8 > 6d6 > 6d8. Which, without INA, would instead be 3d6 > 3d8 > 4d6 > 4d8. Still fairly impressive I think.
Pennate wrote:
4. I doubt the phantom could use its feats when sequestered in your mind.
Fair enough; my line of thinking was that since it's a passive effect that directly alters the damage dealt by the phantom's slam, it should equally affect the tendrils you get from your phantom when partially ecto-manifesting it. It was a stretch anyway.
Pennate wrote:
5. I think that there was a question posed a while back for a similar situation that used Familiar-granted Alertness as an example. I believe the ruling declared that any feat, class ability, prestige class, etc. that required Alertness would only function when the Familiar was within arm's reach; therefore, the Spiritualist might feasibly qualify for Power Attack-related options, but could only use them when enraptured.
That's fine, since the only thing he has that requires Power Attack is Cornugon Smash anyway, which is something I only intend him to use in rapture.
Pennate wrote:
6. The Exciter's bonus is untyped, while the Monk's Fast Movement is an enhancement bonus, so I don't see why the two wouldn't stack. The Winding Path Renegade's ability is "treated as an enhancement bonus," so similar logic would apply. The Bloodrager is not a Barbarian, so its bonus could potentially stack with the Exciter's.
This certainly opens up some interesting options! Right now it looks like Scaled Fist UC Monk is my best bet, but dipping a level in Bloodrager could be a fun option. Since rapture functions as bloodrage, that means any bloodline powers would function in rapture as well, creating a few interesting options depending on my choice of bloodline (black blood and undead bloodlines are really striking me here). Not sure if I'd bother with WPR since it'd require a four level dip, though, I was more bringing that in as an example.
Pennate wrote:
7. No; Vital Strike can only be used on as part of an attack action, a specific type of standard action.
I had a feeling. However, could I perhaps make a Vital Strike with Power Attack active and have the Cornugon Smash/Hurtful combo trigger that way?
So I recently was checking out the Exciter archetype and thought it'd be an interesting thing to try out. I do have a few questions first, though:
1 - If I take the Magical Lineage trait, can I select a spell I don't yet know so I can take advantage of it with a higher-level spell? If not, can I use it with a 0th level spell? As worded it seems like no, unless it can cause a spell to count as -1st level, which I doubt.
2 - Does Furious Spell allow me to cast a spell that normally has a thought component during my rapture? If so that makes it a far superior choice to Intuitive Spell (which was what I was originally going to go for).
3 - Would the effects of enlarge person (usable as a Sp via the Fractured Mind archetype), the Improved Natural Attack (tendril) feat, and the Anger phantom's Powerful Strike (gained during a rapture via the Excitation ability) stack to effectively increase my tendrils' damage to five steps above normal for a phantom of that spiritualist level, or would enlarge person and Powerful Strike not stack? As I'm reading it they all should stack since Powerful Strike doesn't actually make you change your size. So essentially, if I use enlarge person before a fight and spend my rapture in excitation and with bonded manifestation active, then by 8th level (not counting any other classes I dip into) I should be dealing 3d8 with my tendrils, which advances to 4d6 at 9th, 4d8 at 13th, and 6d6 at 17th.
4 - I can see a case for this being reduced some if I can't take Improved Natural Attack (tendril), either because my tendrils aren't permanent or because the class description doesn't specifically call them natural weapons. Could I potentially circumvent this by having the phantom take Improved Natural Attack (slam), or do the phantom's feats only function while they're fully manifested? I'm expecting this to be a no (which is fine since it means no need to track feats on the phantom at all), but might as well ask while I'm here.
5 - Further question: can I treat the ability to use Powerful Strike as having Power Attack for the purpose of selecting feats, or do I need to have permanent access to Power Attack (making it essentially a feat tax for feats that would require it)?
6 - If I took three levels of monk, would their Fast Movement stack with the Excitier's? Exciter's Fast Movement only calls out the barbarian's Fast Movement as not stacking. I plan on taking one level of Scaled Fist UC monk, but this could put more weight into the viability of taking three levels instead. Similarly, would this stack with Fast Movement from a bloodrager or a Winding Path Renegade brawler?
7 - Not entirely completely related but this will help determine the importance I'm putting on some skills. Suppose I charge in with Power Attack active, hit my foe, and my free Intimidate from Cornugon Smash and successfully demoralize my foe. Can I use Vital Strike as the swift-action melee attack granted by Hurtful in that case?
These books have a lot of options that can be niche for a generalist kinetic but allow you to build a lot of quirky specialized builds if that's the way you want to run it.
Indeed. I liked the original Legendary Kineticists a bit more, but there are definitely some fun options here.... Countering Infusion becomes much nicer in conjunction with the Kinetic Disruption feat, for example. And becoming a kinetic lich is cool, as is being able to use a quarterstaff or club with wood, and several others.
That said, I must still waggle my finger for Enhanced Composite Blast's example not being legal...you'd need to use negative admixture with fire blast, since gravitic boost only boosts physical blasts.
Dagnabbit. Just assume I said (random physical blast) instead.
The problem with using negative admixture as an example is it wouldn't work for Enhanced Composite Boost. RAW, negative admixture doesn't count as the modified blast, it's simply a void-element energy composite blast that deals half negative and half [energy type] (so for example, negative admixture fire blast is half negative, half fire, where negative admixture positive blast would be half negative, half positive).
Counting only Paizo and LK content, this works with with aetheric boost, gravitic boost, and cerebral empowerment, as all three have language that state that it "otherwise counts as the simple blast."
I did actually have a feat planned for negative admixture as well for the KoP series, but it was nixed since it was a bit too niche. At present though, negative admixture and positive admixture are technically only usable with universal infusions. I'll consider bringing it into future products though, especially since we now have positive admixture to mess around with.
Alright, was looking through things, and...how does the Countering Infusion wild talent counter a supernatural or extraordinary ability? More specifically, what's the DC of the Spellcraft check? Normally it's 15 + spell level, but without a spell...for that matter, should it even be a Spellcraft check if it isn't a spell?
Ya know, I actually hadn't considered that when designing that, so good catch! I'm gonna say it uses the typical 15 + spell level, using the effective spell level if it has one (such as the levels of spells used as SPAs which are provided by racial traits or the effective spell levels of wild talents), 1/2 the user's effective class level for the ability if it's provided by a class and doesn't have an effective spell level (such as a sorcerer's bloodline abilities or a cleric's channel), or its 1/2 HD (such as a dragon's breath weapon), in that order. Not sure if that'd be too wordy though, so I'll let Ehn weigh in on it as well; perhaps he can come up with a more graceful solution that doesn't use as many words.
Again, thanks for pointing that out. One more thing to add to the errata list. Also, if you use this assessment, it goes for spellturning infusion as well.
No worries, was just looking at it and going...how does this actually mechanically function...? Then went off to look at counterspell rules and how the kineticist's blast already interacts with it in case I was missing something. But yeah, it's a cool idea, though I'm honestly unsure as to whether I would take it normally, given that it's still quite niche...does make me ponder an infusion that suppresses a target's ability to use attacks that use the given element, though...
As Jason noted, it would be quite a niche build, as I doubt a player's going to just randomly take countering infusion because they have nothing else they feel like taking. However, I could easily see someone designing a denial-based soundweaver (since soundweavers have access to a larger selection of simple blasts) or at the least an aether and/or void kineticist. Give them countering and spellturning infusions and Kinetic Disruption (and, if they can access cold, fire, or water blast, Kinetic Counter). Granted there's still plenty you can't counterspell, but even a dedicated caster needs to focus on certain feats or abilities to function as a denial mage without preparing counterspell or spell turning in every spell slot available.
As for other feats, I'd say Atheist Abjurations, Cooperative Counterspell, Improved Counterspell, and Ordered Mind wouldn't function with countering infusion, since they all call out spells in particular or a particular school (which kinetic blasts do not belong to). However, Parry Spell could work; it'd save you two burn, but at the cost of two feats. If you have a spell list, Spell Bluff would work with the appropriate kinetic blasts as well. If allowed, you could also use the Spell Duel Prodigy trait, and it should work with countering infusion.
Tels: I like it and the at will mage hand also works well for someone without hands. ;)
I guess I could take Chosen one as one of my traits and start off with the gloves and the tattoo at first. It'll just push back when I can buy a ring of eloquence so I can speak. Though, I could communicate slowly with the gloves. [prestidigitation to make a small crappy sign and mage hand to hold it up and/or point]
Thanks a lot! This really fits the character well. LOL looks like the first three magic items I get aren't going to be from the 'big six'.
Onyx Tanuki: I just thought of something. Create water "can be created in an area as small as will actually contain the liquid". Could you make ice in a square if you created the ice in a square container? You know, like a snow brick mold? If so my dream of low level ice architecture might come true!
As long as you have the appropriate molds to set it in and know the approximate volume of ice it'd take to fill it, then yes, you absolutely could use basic cryo to fill molds with ice. You of course still must possess the means to extract the ice, and if you put too much in then you'd have the shave the rough bits off yourself (or at least smooth it down with ice sculptor or a similar ability) but it's a perfectly viable alternative to just dropping a chunk of ice and breaking out a pick.
Something I should point out is that Basic Cryo needs errata to be more in line with Basic Electro. It's supposed to provide 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level to nat armor and to attack rolls on cold-based blasts. As such you're getting +1 natural armor, not +2. You won't be at +2 until 5th. Still, that's pretty decent AC at 3rd~
Ok, cool. It seemed pretty strong so it's not too much of a shock that it needed errata. I'm still quite pleased with the talent so thumbs up on some awesome products. ;)
PS: I also pleased that the character still has over half her wealth she can spend on fun stuff, since she's competitive without any buff items. I'm thinking of buying a Hand rotary quern so I can turn the ice from Basic cryo into crushed ice. Now I just have to figure out the price for syrups...
PPS: With basic cryo's create water, do you pick the form it comes in? For instance a cube, sheet or sphere? Does it form a single mass or can it be like pile of sleet pellets? Is snow possible? How 'solid' is the ice?: for instance, create water can be summoned at close range so is 16lbs/level of ice falling from 25' going to injure someone or is it just going to break apart?
Sorry for all the questions, but there are a lot that pop up with creating a solid vs a liquid. I'm thinking of taking craft: [ice]sculptures and/or stone[ice]masonry and maybe profession: cook [for snow cones and ice cream!] so what form the ice can come in is fairly important to figuring out that can be done with it.
I'd say it takes the form of a single crude chunk. Probably roughly spherical, but very rough, like you're manifesting an ice boulder of about 7.6 kg per level (as you said about 16 lbs). I could see weaponizing it by dropping it over someone's head for sure, although you're very likely to deal more damage and have an easier time hitting with your cold blast.
And don't forget, ice sculptor is a talent. You could get hella creative by combining it with basic cryokinesis. Might need to get a friend to convert the ice into snow for your snowcone business, though, unless your GM judges that you can use ice sculptor to break it into snow.
Anyway, hope you enjoy your Alolan Ninetails ice kitsune!
Alright, was looking through things, and...how does the Countering Infusion wild talent counter a supernatural or extraordinary ability? More specifically, what's the DC of the Spellcraft check? Normally it's 15 + spell level, but without a spell...for that matter, should it even be a Spellcraft check if it isn't a spell?
Ya know, I actually hadn't considered that when designing that, so good catch! I'm gonna say it uses the typical 15 + spell level, using the effective spell level if it has one (such as the levels of spells used as SPAs which are provided by racial traits or the effective spell levels of wild talents), 1/2 the user's effective class level for the ability if it's provided by a class and doesn't have an effective spell level (such as a sorcerer's bloodline abilities or a cleric's channel), or its 1/2 HD (such as a dragon's breath weapon), in that order. Not sure if that'd be too wordy though, so I'll let Ehn weigh in on it as well; perhaps he can come up with a more graceful solution that doesn't use as many words.
Again, thanks for pointing that out. One more thing to add to the errata list. Also, if you use this assessment, it goes for spellturning infusion as well.
How do composite blasts interact with the onslaught blast? Would a 7th level kineticist get 8 1d6+1/1d6 blasts (my assumption) before taking into account the burned and excessive blaster class features or would the kineticist get 4 2d6+2/2d6 blasts in keeping with how onslaught blast works normally?
It'd be 8 1d6 blasts. For composites, you're just performing twice as many blasts since they have an additional die per blast. And before anyone asks, if you're going with KoP content and include Complex Negative Admixture, that blast in particular would provide you triple the blasts as a simple blast would.
As for other ways a kinetic blast might gain additional damage dice (such as from a kineticist's diadem), I'll let Ehn field that.
graystone wrote:
Just got Legendary Kineticists I & II and I'm pleases whith the options. Now I can make a ice fox kineticist!
Kitune with Superior Shapeshifter[blood of beasts]: fox shape feat at 1st.
Planar Gates Tattoo[Legendary Kineticists I]: no hands needed for blasts.
Onslaught Blaster (Kineticist Archetype)[Legendary Kineticists II]: full action attack instead of gather energy; no hands needed.
Legendary Kineticist (Variant Class)[Legendary Kineticists I]: burn not hp based so Con can be lower plus tiny creatures use Dex instead of Str for swim/climb so minus dex/str skills easier to take.
Element water/cold [Shroud of Water, Basic Cryokinesis{Legendary Kineticist II}]
Talent: Elemental Whispers{Horror Adventures}[hedgehog(Emissary archrtype)- +2 will saves, guidance at will, second save vs mind-affecting effects, 1 use of a 1st-level domain power.]
feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot
At 3rd level that tiny fox has AC: 25(Shroud of Water [+5AC], Basic Cryokinesis[+2nat AC], dex 18+4 size +6 ac, tiny +2 ac), Fort: +6, Ref: +9, Will: +4, +11 to hit touch AC blasts [3d6 +1 cold]. Full round action to extend range [120']. All that's needed is a 1,300 GP tattoo and 1 burn for Shroud of Water!
Something I should point out is that Basic Cryo needs errata to be more in line with Basic Electro. It's supposed to provide 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level to nat armor and to attack rolls on cold-based blasts. As such you're getting +1 natural armor, not +2. You won't be at +2 until 5th. Still, that's pretty decent AC at 3rd~
Ehn covered pretty much everything that needed to be said, but I'll at least try and give my perspective on this.
Bestial Kineticist - You really don't see archetypes for animal companions too often, and I wanted to have something that would be compatible with a lot of different classes and archetypes that weren't kineticists. One of the more unfortunate things about this is how much errata it's gonna need with the release of Arcane Anthology, but hey, the book was submitted before AA was out, so it is what it is. *shrug* I'll note the errata below.
Metakinetic Savant - This is one of those archetypes that's going to really need to rely on GM fiat more and more in the future, especially if other 3pp content is used which adds other metamagic feats. Again, AA's release means a little errata here. It's probably my least favorite of the archetypes, but it's very easy to plug it into most other archetypes. Even if you don't replace any of the base metakinesis abilities, it's a sidegrade for internal buffer and a VERY solid upgrade to metakinetic master.
Nihilicist - One of my babies in this book. As Ehn said it did take some tweaking to get it to work well, but I love where it ended up. It was in part inspired by the Monk of the Healing Hand archetype, acting as a character willing to sacrifice not only their life, but their very existence and the memory thereof for the greater good.
Onslaught Blaster - This is one of the parts of the book I didn't have nearly as much of a hand in, aside from helping with balancing things out math-wise. It does fill a role that people really wanted however, expanding one of the infusions (Flurry of Blasts) into an entire playstyle.
Order of the Scion - Not exactly an archetype, but it just adds an order which allows for a kineticist lean on the base cavalier. This is another thing hit by the introduction of AA, but not quite as much so, since the wording still supports its additions without much errata.
Planar Custodian - Something of a "hybrid" archetype, splicing the kineticist's abilities into a druid. There is a little bit of errata to be added, but it should play nicely with AA as is.
Planestouched Oracle - Is it odd that I'm surprised when one of our archetypes fits on one page of a book? :P Anyway, despite its simplicity, this is a smoother hybrid archetype IMO than the planar custodian ended up being.
Telekinetic Bladeshifter - Another of my babies~ Originally I wanted this to be sort of a kineticist/fighter hybrid, and frankly I think it could have been a hybrid class with a little more polish, but as it is it feels more like a class hack, which I'm completely fine with.
Legendary Kineticist - I'll fully admit - and I may be in the minority here - that I'm a fan of the baseline kineticist versus the legendary kineticist, but I think Ehn did handle this remake of the class quite well, and it's something a lot of people wanted to happen.
Kinetic Mystic - And the last one I feel I can truly consider my offspring. As mentioned, it's essentially in the spirit of the old "class hybrid" prestige classes, in this case combining aspects of the kineticist and the magus. What you come out with is a way to really enhance both your kinetic blasts and your attacks.
Beyond the above, I don't have a whole lot to add. Overall, I'm very proud of how the book came together, and I had a blast working on it~
Now, I'll go ahead and include my errata; ya'll can take these as suggestions, though I do hope Ehn approves of these, and they might be applied to any reprints of the book:
- For the bestial kineticist's Wild Tricks, the whole exception for Wood Blast can be removed. It was meant as a workaround for wood not having a wood/wood composite blast, which it now does as per AA.
- For the bestial kineticist's Elemental Form, if the bestial kineticist has Positive Blast, I'd say to count it as the aether subtype. Unfortunately I couldn't find any other subtype that fits it without being linked to an alignment. Also, while I'm sure you all know what it means, feel free to ignore where it states "elemental subtype" except where it specifically states it adds THE elemental subtype. Everything else is meant to be "subtype provided by its element".
- Metakinetic Savants should count Positive Blast as Evocation [light] and Verdant Blast as Conjuration (creation) [light]. I could also see a case for Conjuration (healing) and Conjuration (creation, healing) respectively but I personally prefer the former.
- Planar Custodians should be able to pick the Badlands domain. It's something that should be pretty clear since it's mentioned elsewhere, but it was something we went back and forth on including and ultimately did include it (but in the process accidentally omitted from the list of viable domains).
- Already mentioned, but Basic Cryokinesis should add 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level in natural armor, not 1 + your kineticist level.
- Add Basic Phytokinesis or Wood Blast as prerequisites to Brutal Club. Wouldn't make much sense to be able to shape a wooden weapon if all you have is positive energy, right?
- Life After Undeath can be chosen now as a wood wild talent, and can be chosen in place of Basic Phytokinesis. Yay!
- Similarly, Lingering Energy is a wood wild talent now as well, though its prerequisites stand (although it's not that useful unless you're fighting a horde of unintelligent shambling zombies).
- Lastly - and this is more a point of pseudo-OCD - Trueno's art is backwards in the title page, and this wouldn't bother me if not for the fact she's asymmetrical. I understand it was done for layout reasons but bruh! I'm triggered!
*clears throat* Alrighty, that's pretty much it. It does rather disappoint me that this is the last of Ehn's planned kineticist books, but between the LK and KoP series, I think we've turned what was originally a fun-but-flawed class into something that rivals - no, even exceeds - the versatility of many 9th level casters, and I think that's a hell of a feat all on its own. It's been an absolute honor to have worked with him, and I do really hope he'll be willing to include me in at least some of his future projects.
Ehn covered pretty much everything that needed to be said, but I'll at least try and give my perspective on this.
Bestial Kineticist - You really don't see archetypes for animal companions too often, and I wanted to have something that would be compatible with a lot of different classes and archetypes that weren't kineticists. One of the more unfortunate things about this is how much errata it's gonna need with the release of Arcane Anthology, but hey, the book was submitted before AA was out, so it is what it is. *shrug* I'll note the errata below.
Metakinetic Savant - This is one of those archetypes that's going to really need to rely on GM fiat more and more in the future, especially if other 3pp content is used which adds other metamagic feats. Again, AA's release means a little errata here. It's probably my least favorite of the archetypes, but it's very easy to plug it into most other archetypes. Even if you don't replace any of the base metakinesis abilities, it's a sidegrade for internal buffer and a VERY solid upgrade to metakinetic master.
Nihilicist - One of my babies in this book. As Ehn said it did take some tweaking to get it to work well, but I love where it ended up. It was in part inspired by the Monk of the Healing Hand archetype, acting as a character willing to sacrifice not only their life, but their very existence and the memory thereof for the greater good.
Onslaught Blaster - This is one of the parts of the book I didn't have nearly as much of a hand in, aside from helping with balancing things out math-wise. It does fill a role that people really wanted however, expanding one of the infusions (Flurry of Blasts) into an entire playstyle.
Order of the Scion - Not exactly an archetype, but it just adds an order which allows for a kineticist lean on the base cavalier. This is another thing hit by the introduction of AA, but not quite as much so, since the wording still supports its additions without much errata.
Planar Custodian - Something of a "hybrid" archetype, splicing the kineticist's abilities into a druid. There is a little bit of errata to be added, but it should play nicely with AA as is.
Planestouched Oracle - Is it odd that I'm surprised when one of our archetypes fits on one page of a book? :P Anyway, despite its simplicity, this is a smoother hybrid archetype IMO than the planar custodian ended up being.
Telekinetic Bladeshifter - Another of my babies~ Originally I wanted this to be sort of a kineticist/fighter hybrid, and frankly I think it could have been a hybrid class with a little more polish, but as it is it feels more like a class hack, which I'm completely fine with.
Legendary Kineticist - I'll fully admit - and I may be in the minority here - that I'm a fan of the baseline kineticist versus the legendary kineticist, but I think Ehn did handle this remake of the class quite well, and it's something a lot of people wanted to happen.
Kinetic Mystic - And the last one I feel I can truly consider my offspring. As mentioned, it's essentially in the spirit of the old "class hybrid" prestige classes, in this case combining aspects of the kineticist and the magus. What you come out with is a way to really enhance both your kinetic blasts and your attacks.
Beyond the above, I don't have a whole lot to add. Overall, I'm very proud of how the book came together, and I had a blast working on it~
Now, I'll go ahead and include my errata; ya'll can take these as suggestions, though I do hope Ehn approves of these, and they might be applied to any reprints of the book:
- For the bestial kineticist's Wild Tricks, the whole exception for Wood Blast can be removed. It was meant as a workaround for wood not having a wood/wood composite blast, which it now does as per AA.
- For the bestial kineticist's Elemental Form, if the bestial kineticist has Positive Blast, I'd say to count it as the aether subtype. Unfortunately I couldn't find any other subtype that fits it without being linked to an alignment. Also, while I'm sure you all know what it means, feel free to ignore where it states "elemental subtype" except where it specifically states it adds THE elemental subtype. Everything else is meant to be "subtype provided by its element".
- Metakinetic Savants should count Positive Blast as Evocation [light] and Verdant Blast as Conjuration (creation) [light]. I could also see a case for Conjuration (healing) and Conjuration (creation, healing) respectively but I personally prefer the former.
- Planar Custodians should be able to pick the Badlands domain. It's something that should be pretty clear since it's mentioned elsewhere, but it was something we went back and forth on including and ultimately did include it (but in the process accidentally omitted from the list of viable domains).
- Already mentioned, but Basic Cryokinesis should add 1 + 1/5 your kineticist level in natural armor, not 1 + your kineticist level.
- Add Basic Phytokinesis or Wood Blast as prerequisites to Brutal Club. Wouldn't make much sense to be able to shape a wooden weapon if all you have is positive energy, right?
- Life After Undeath can be chosen now as a wood wild talent, and can be chosen in place of Basic Phytokinesis. Yay!
- Similarly, Lingering Energy is a wood wild talent now as well, though its prerequisites stand (although it's not that useful unless you're fighting a horde of unintelligent shambling zombies).
- Lastly - and this is more a point of pseudo-OCD - Trueno's art is backwards in the title page, and this wouldn't bother me if not for the fact she's asymmetrical. I understand it was done for layout reasons but bruh! I'm triggered!
*clears throat* Alrighty, that's pretty much it. It does rather disappoint me that this is the last of Ehn's planned kineticist books, but between the LK and KoP series, I think we've turned what was originally a fun-but-flawed class into something that rivals - no, even exceeds - the versatility of many 9th level casters, and I think that's a hell of a feat all on its own. It's been an absolute honor to have worked with him, and I do really hope he'll be willing to include me in at least some of his future projects.
With Legendary Kineticists II now out, I thought this would be a good time to bump this thread so if anybody has questions about it they can feel free to ask here~
The intention behind Elemental Main Gauche is that you're holding a physical weapon and use your "blast" to create your offhand, as opposed to making a weapon in your main hand. It's not something that should work with a main-hand blast unless you pick up something like Hadou Admixture (Titangrip Technique).
My understanding of precise strike was that you could technically have an offhand weapon, you just can't use it to attack. So while you could use EMG with it, you wouldn't actually be able to use your main gauche blast in precise strike attacks. In cases where you specifically can't use an offhand weapon (such as Dervish Dance), keep in mind that just because you can create a main gauche doesn't mean you have to.
That said, yes, you *could* use Kinetic Partisan with Kinetic Katana, making it viable for precise strike. To be fair, you can do the same with a manufactured katana if you possess Slashing Grace (although you need to be 5th level, or 3rd as a human, to do it). I'd honestly errata it to say that you wield such weapons one-handed, though, as that was the intention.
Thanks for adding the Paizo link, guys~ And I'll go ahead and link to the book's page on Open Gaming Store to give everyone yet another option for purchasing it.
Anyone who's had the chance to buy the book from any of the sites and read it in more detail, feel free to drop a review for the product on any of the sites on which it's available. I'd love to know what you guys liked or disliked about it so the next book I push out can be even better!
Could you give a brief blurb on each of the archetypes?
Any new hexes, feates, or familiars you're particularly excited by or proud of?
Sure! I'll give a brief rundown of all the new archetypes I included. A lot of them arose from either ways I wanted to hybridize the witch with another class or things I thought might make a witch feel different a bit different to play as.
First is the blooded hag. Rather than following a patron, their source of power is their bloodline, making this something of a witch/sorcerer blend. They cast spontaneously and can select bloodline powers in place of hexes. Fairly simple, aside from a few rules tweaks to make things fair.
Like the blooded hag, the brewer is a sort of witch hybrid, this time with the alchemist. This is probably one of my favorites. It represents a major playstyle shift, though; while the brewer loses a good chunk of spells as well as their cantrips, they become able to create not only extracts in the same fashion as an alchemist, but unique splash weapons that deliver offensive spell effects. They can pick up discoveries to this end, as well as treating their familiar as an alchemist so it can use their extracts and mutagens.
Impetuous dervish is next. The closest analogy I can think of is the witches from Left 4 Dead. At the cost of a spell per day per level, they get a flurry, except they also get to use natural weapons and touch attacks.
The insufflator plays around with one of the new metamagics I included - Wicked Breath - and expands upon it. As the name of the feat suggests (as well as the archetype's name), insufflators turn their spells and hexes into breath attacks. Wyrmwitch, eat your heart out.
Next up is the legionmaster. Admittedly this one's not the most creative idea I had: if you're familiar with the summoner's broodmaster archetype, or the hunter's packmaster, you'll have a pretty good idea of how this works.
Another one that was inspired by existing archetypes is the mentor, which draws upon the wizard's instructor archetype. However, there's a little more to it. Have you ever wanted to be the familiar rather than the witch themselves? Or maybe be a patron? This is your chance!
The polytheistic witch brings us back to the hybrid archetypes this time splicing occultist influence into the mix. While this limits the number of spells they pick up quite a bit, the fact that you're getting multiple patrons is going to make this feel more like you're relying upon your patrons for your magic, I feel.
The sanguisuge was the first archetype I developed for this, and one Ehn himself seemed especially keen on when I showed him my early drafts of the book. It takes a little from the kineticist, and a little more from the arcanist, rolling them into a witch that uses their familiar as a living battery that fuels their abilities.
Next on the list is the sightless seer. This archetype makes use of one of the new types of familiars: the matoyasite crystal. I'm sure most people can guess the inspiration for this. Sightless seers obviously don't have their own visual senses, but instead see through their crystal familiar and gain "sixth" senses through some of the new hexes.
The warweaver is another drastic playstyle shift. This essentially transforms our 1/2 BAB 9th level caster into a 3/4 BAB 6th level caster, making them less powerful spellweavers but more useful with actual weapons. They become especially powerful with finessable weapons (something I did intentionally to allow for very powerful natural attack builds).
The whitelighter is halfway inspired by one of the rules of traditional witchcraft: never cast spells on people who don't desire it. Although this is admittedly a little relaxed, it provides an interesting mechanic that limits what they can target. Those partying with a whitelighter are going to need to position themselves very carefully on the battlefield. (One note: while I initially only allowed them to target animals attacking them or their familiars without first gaining permission, this is going to be errata'd to be a little more relaxed, allowing them to cast on animals which are hostile toward their party members. I just imagined a situation where the bard is getting eaten alive by wolves while the whitelighter is just standing by like, "Oh don't be dramatic, they're only playing! You probably didn't need that leg anyway.")
The final new witch archetype is the wood witch, which brings us back to the hybridization, this time between witch and druid. They are limited to plant-related patrons, but also are granted the Plant domain as well as the kineticist's wood blast and all of its composites (not accounting for those in Psychic Anthology if any... damn, I probably should have held off until I could pick up a copy of it and see if they had any new wood composites, but oh well), which they can use as a cantrip and 4th level spells.
The next new archetype- what was that? Yeah I did say that last one was the final archetype. For witches. Familiars get a little love too. Conduits give up some personal benefit from their masters' spells to make them better at delivering them, kidnappers can steal targets away, and messengers can be used to deliver not only magic, but send missives.
Speaking of familiars, there's four new ones. One is based on the hoop snake, and another upon the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz. The other two, like the ioun wyrd, are constructs with very interesting abilities: a book which gives its master a free cantrip, and the aforementioned matoyasite crystal.
The new hexes certainly aren't likely to replace the existing ones in anyone's hearts, but I'm pleased with them. You've got means to use a hex as an AoO, a mini-Tactician, a way to utilize "detect" spells differently, a harmful counterpart to the healing hex line, and a few other odds and ends that might entertain you.
Feats are also something that, while a bit niche, are going to prove useful I think. The new metamagics play around with hexes and curses (plus giving you breath spells as I mentioned before), and there's a few that can sorta make your witch play like a wonky magus, and a line that lets your familiar cast patron spells to some degree.
Oh right, patrons. Did I mention there's 13 new ones? I won't spoil what exactly they do, but I do have a few favorites, with Glass and Revelry among them. They cover quite a wide variety of themes, pull a large selection of spells from various sources, and every one of them gives an ability for you to consider if you want a patron familiar.
I've even included a few new materials that might prove useful to a witch; hauntwood and matoyasite. You didn't think the crystal was only used to make familiars, did you? Perhaps the only thing this book is missing that you might expect is new spells, and frankly, I think adding new spells would have been overkill.
So yeah, I've mostly kept this project close to the vest pending its release, but here it is~ It's currently available on RPGNow, and I'll link any other sites when I can.
In any case, this thread's going to be here for anyone to ask questions regarding the book's contents, and I'll try and give the best answers I'm capable of. Here's hoping you guys enjoy the book!
How does fusion kineticist work with extra wild talent, same level 1 cap?
Seems like the "If you have the expanded element class feature" part of
"If you have the expanded element class feature, you can select a wild talent from any of your elements that’s at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wild talent from your primary element that you can currently use."
Seems like it wouldn't change anything & the max lv for your secondary element is the same as it would be otherwise for your class progression, since you don't have the class feature.
Correct?
(& to clarify, you can still take it to gain more of the level appropriate wild talents for your secondary element that you could have otherwise through leveling, right?)
I'd say from 7th level on, it functions as if your main element is your primary, and your sub element is an expanded element. If you can somehow manage to gain the feat before 6th level, you'd be limited to 1st level wild talents in your sub element.
The exception to this would be Brutal Mutation, and that has specific rules for fusion kineticists.
K-kun the Insane wrote:
Okay, I'm new to this discussion and got KoP 1, 2, & 3 over Christmas to help me create assets for a story I'm working on the has a party where 5/7 characters are essentially multiclass kineticists and another being full kineticist.
Not sure if this has been asked in the past 500+ posts, but does Kinetic Smite from the Divine Conduit archetype have daily uses? Also is the 1/2 CON mod to attack and AC optional? My 3rd level Divine Conduit (photokineticist) has 16 CON and 15 CHA, so can she smite with +2 attack and AC with +3 damage, or does it have to be +1 to attack and AC with +3 damage?
As written, Kinetic Smite is only limited by how much burn you can accumulate. This actually makes divine conduit a beautiful pairing with utilitarian mutation from KoP4.
As for the bonuses, you can add 1/2 your Con in place of your Cha. Doesn't mean you must. So basically you're adding either +1 from your Con or +2 from your Cha. It basically allows you to dump Cha if you so choose, since Con is still your main "casting" stat.
The big problem here, though, is that, RAW, you don't gain any damage at all. I'm pretty sure this was an oversight on our part, but as it is, your bonus to damage is still equal to your paladin levels, of which you possess 0. Personally, I would count divine conduit levels as paladin levels for this purpose, and I'd be surprised if Ehn disagrees.
Is it possible he was using two or even three mist monsters against you at once? Also, has he shown any resistance or reluctance to the idea of GMing? It's possible he intentionally sabotaged his own turn as a GM so it'd be over as quickly as possible and he wouldn't have to do it again, if that's the case.
So i can use a large longsword or a large warhammer and still benefit from all of the two-handed fighter archetype's abilities? (if I know that for certain then i'm happy)
What he's saying is that, because the Bastard Sword FAQ is specific to the Bastard Sword, only the Bastard Sword lets you use it two-handed and receive Two-handed Fighter features, whereas any other weapon wouldn't. So, a Large Longsword or Warhammer wouldn't receive the benefit, but a Large Bastard Sword would.
And as I've said, that ninja-buffs the Bastard Sword in an unintended manner. The FAQ isn't written to let a Bastard Sword have extra hidden functions, in the same vein that TWF with Armor Spikes is granting a function that works outside of the unwritten rules regarding TWF.
Especially when we have a more general FAQ whose claim is inverse: that a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand treats that weapon as one-handed for abilities and effects that work on one-handed weapons, using Power Attack (whose effects vary based on the type of weapon wielded) as an example.
Therefore, it stands to reason, based on multiple FAQs, that a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands treats the weapon as two-handed for abilities and effects that work on two-handed weapons.
I believe you're half-right here. If you wielded a longsword of your own size in two hands, yes, you get the 1.5 Str and Power Attack, but it's still a one-handed weapon for feats and abilities. A feat's wording is important here. For example, you wouldn't be able to use Cleaving Sweep with any one-handed weapon - even if you're using it in both hands, because it specifies only two-handed weapons. The bastard sword and katana are the only exceptions since they can be wielded as two-handed weapons so long as you have proficiency with them as martial weapons. A feat such as Furious Focus works with a one-handed weapon of your size wielded in two hands because it specifically states as much.
This changes with one-handed weapons a size larger than you, or light weapons two size categories larger. The weapons rules state that the effort for such weapons changes, so a Medium character with a Large one-handed weapon or a Huge light weapon would treat such weapons as two-handed. Because they're now two-handed, they will work with feats and abilities that function only for two-handed weapons, such as the two-handed weapon fighter archetype abilities or the Cleaving Sweep feat.
Think of it this way: under most situations such abilities and feats don't work with weapons because you can wield them in two hands, they only work if you would have to wield them in two hands.
What you just described is literally a summoner, so... yeah.
Next best thing I can think of might be an Eldritch Guardian. It's a fighter archetype that makes use of a familiar and shares their feats with it. You could go pure EG, or you could take one level of Beast-Bonded witch; your BAB will suffer a bit, but you'll be able to grant feats to your familiar and you'll get some cantrips to play with and makes replacing your familiar if it gets killed quicker and cheaper. Take a cat with the Mauler archetype and flavor it as your stuffed tiger buddy.
For reference, the Beast-bonded witch is in Ultimate Magic, and the Eldritch Guardian fighter and Mauler familiar are in the Pathfinder Player Companion: Familiar Folio.
The flavor text has nothing to do with the mechanics, but still could be useful.
Combined with Monkey Style, the feat just comes out as an extra +2 AC against ranged attacks while I'm prone, though, doesn't it? It'd be fine if I had to wait until 5th for Monkey Style, but as it is, probably not top priority unless I get into a situation where I've gotta crawl along while waves of enemy ranged attacks are going to be coming my way. I do appreciate the suggestion though!
It's expensive, but a scatter weapon with the Interfering weapon enchantment would let you fire at an entire field of enemies if just one enemy moves. This could be replicated nonmagically with Snap Shot and Combat Patrol, but that would cost you many feats and a full round of actions.
Also, you cannot use Vital Strike with a scatter weapon. A scatter weapon also only misfires if every roll on the attack misfires, so your chances of misfiring are low.
Check out this post to see what a culverin can do to a ship full of pirates.
If you did want to bring a similar build to PFS, the Gun Scavenger archetype is legal and will let you modify any gun into a scatter weapon, including a double musket.
Ouch, +5 bonus is steep, but it's probably preferable to Combat Patrol, and absolutely what I'd go for with a culverin. And I was absolutely planning on taking Snap Shot (and possibly Improved Snap Shot) on the ranger build if I have room (and because they're both part of the Faithful (Erastil) combat style, I have no need to take Rapid Shot with it either).
Potentially dumb question: can I perform a free action outside of my turn? I've been told no, that only immediate actions can be done outside of my turn, and I've seen nothing that states I can do free actions outside my turn, but I may be wrong. Granted, this just rates how valuable Combat Reflexes would be, since I could load and fire AoOs with any firearm if free actions are allowed, but if not, I just need to make sure my double hackbut is loaded, and I can only use AoO with it twice.
Just a thought, but you could possibly take a level in the Unarmed Fighter archetype of Fighter instead of MoMS if you want to keep full BAB - you'd lose a +2 bump to reflex & will, stunning fist and some minor monk abilities of course. Unarmed Fighter also bypasses the style feat prereqs.
While I can't do that with the Fighter 16 build (since Trench Fighter and Unarmed Fighter don't stack), that's actually the favored option over MoMS for the gunslinger 17, ranger 16, and barbarian 16 builds (which I still need to actually... build >_>). If I work with a GM who'll allow MoMS on an unchained monk, that's going to be better than UF no matter what, but I'm trying to minimize any reliance on asking a GM for house rules to be applied.
Do firearms have an exception like crossbows that allow them to be used while prone?
Yes they do. Part of the early strategy for using this build is dropping prone ahead of time. Monkey Style removes the AC penalty against melee attacks from being prone as an added benefit of not provoking AoO when I get back up, which is one of the main reasons it's something of a necessity for this.
I'm... not a fan of Kip-Up for this. I'd need 3 levels of swashbuckler, and wouldn't even be able to do it as a swift action without spending grit/panache. What I get in 3 levels I can get from 1 level of monk (though I still lose 1 BAB for doing so).
Savage Technologist, however, I like. I may have to plot one out to see how the leveling works out for it if I go gunslinger (musket master) 3, fighter (unarmed fighter) 1, barbarian (savage technologist) 16.
I do like the idea of taking Furious Finish and popping rage, then immediately doing Furious Finish, which, unless I'm mistaken, I can do every 3 turns (rage, use FF, spend two rounds fatigued). I'd definitely miss Burrowing Shot, but this means I can skip Deadly Aim too. Not likely to take EQS though; I'd considered it, but don't see too much reason to be dealing 1d8 with an attack that targets normal AC when I could take a 5-foot step back and shoot them in the face for 6d6 with an attack that targets touch AC.
Hmm... well now I'm wondering if/how I can get the double hackbut to count as 1h. Musket master only counts it as such for reloading, but if there's a different means to make it count as a 1h for all purposes...
Unattended in my games has always been something not being held, or is not part of someone's inventory list. So pretty much anything just laying about the room is good to go. YMMV.
Also...we all know that any goblin baby outside of it's cage is considered unattended. Goblin parents are the worst.
Since a goblin baby is still a creature, this isn't gonna work without using the foe throw infusion unless they've been dismembered first. Just an FYI.
I'm fairly sure the intent was for it to be a solid object. Things like air or water are pooled together such that you'd have to separate small bits out of them to work (at which point you may as well just use whatever container or object was used to divide the smaller amount from its larger pool). Raindrops might be viable, but you'd have to be able to concentrate on a single raindrop as it's falling long enough to snatch it out of the air to use. Much easier would just be to use any loose rocks or whatever are laying around or use your own weapon or a bag of solid objects of negligible value (like a sack of marbles or pebbles).
Titan mauler barbarian so you can use a large double hackbut. Then take furious finish and the full vital strike chain.
Would titan mauler stack with the tiefling's oversized limbs? Also I'd need at least 3 levels for any benefit. Furious Finish also seems like something that'd work better with a Medium double hackbut since the die size is so large; if I'm using a Large double hackbut (which is 6d6 damage) I'm guaranteed at least 12 damage on just baseline VS, 18 on IVS, and 24 on GVS. Granted, the maximums are pretty nasty (36/72/108/144), but I'm not 100% how much it's worthwhile.
However, I'll absolutely look into barbarian and UC barbarian as options. Even for a single-level dip, it could be worthwhile if I end up with Furious Finish.
Isn't Master of Many Styles not a legitimate archetype for an Unchained Monk? I thought Unchained Monks could only take archetypes written specifically for them.
Damn, you're right, it doesn't. I just checked, and apparently the unchained monk is the only UC class specifically locked out of all archetypes linked to baseline. Which sucks since MoMS is one of the archetypes that actually would still work with UC monk. Again, this isn't for PFS, but I'm still trying to adhere to rules as closely as I can, so it's safest to just replace UC monk with baseline monk. This means BAB drops by 1, and one hit die drops a step (d10 to d8), but I'm gaining +2 Will. Not the worst trade, but I'd be getting access to the BAB-locked feats one level later (VS at 7th rather than 6th, IVS at 12th instead of 11th, GVS at 17th instead of 16th, Burrowing Shot at 10th instead of 9th).
Well, again, I'd be likely to retrain out of it and into another Gunslinger level so I could grab Monkey Style back with the bonus feat there (or I could completely ignore it and just take 4 gunslinger levels right out the gate, allowing me to just take Monkey Style outright at 5th with either the 1st level Fighter feat or the level feat), and I didn't intend to take a second style anyway. So it's not at all a major loss, just one that makes Monkey Style come late.
Actually now that I think of it, I should have just taken the monk level at 2nd...
How essential is Monkey Style/the level of MoMS? There aren't any penalties for using a firearm while prone, you can't be knocked prone while you already are, and I imagine any reasonable GM would consider the gun sitting on the ground to be sufficiently supported.
It's actually fairly important for being able to crawl and get up without provoking AoO. Getting back up from being prone is usually a move action that provokes, meaning I won't be able to move outside of taking a 5-foot step on any given turn. Getting the quick-action slippers makes it less important, as it then only prevents me from threatening when I get up, but it's still useful to have. That said, I could easily enough retrain that level out for an extra fighter or gunslinger level later on once the foot-slot is secure; the extra fighter level would give me weapon training 4 (but loses me 2 Fort and 2 Ref), while another gunslinger level gives me a bonus combat/grit feat (and only costs me 1 Fort and 1 Ref). If I take the ranger path mentioned above, like the Fighter route I lose 2 each of Fort and Ref, and gain 1 extra 1st level spell per day and hide in plain sight, so unless I focus on a sniping build that's probably the least rewarding trade-off.
Thank you so much for the shout-out, master Jolly. You and Onyx did a superb job with this one!!
Thanks dude, just finished reading the review. I'm glad you had so much love for Cantikinesis and the archetypes that centered on it. I have to admit those are my favorite archetypes in the book, too!
You know, if you're doing 6d6 base damage per hit then dex to damage is superfluous IMO. Also Deadly Aim would be a bad idea.
Vital Strike might be worth it since weapon damage dice will dominate the damage you do for once. Which might make the ranger class and the Faerie's Strike or Grasping Strike feats useful.
Deadly Aim is there as a feat tax for Burrowing Shot. With such a high-damage weapon, Burrowing Shot is just brutal, since its effects appear to have no duration attached, implying they're permanent aside from taking an hour to attempt a Heal check to treat deadly wounds or taking added damage to remove the bullet as a standard action. I lose a swift action (meaning I won't be able to stand from prone that round), but by the time I have it I should be able to afford some quick-action boots. Unfortunately the only other classes I could use for the bulk of the build and get the weapon training class feature required to pick up Burrowing Shot are Myrmidarch (magus) or Arsenal Chaplain (warpriest), both of which are 3/4 BAB classes (and for this I wanted to stick to full BAB to help mitigate the -4 penalty to attack rolls).
Faerie's Strike and Grasping Strike are both viable, though, and if I give up some of my feats I could quite easily take ranger as the bulk of my build. It's a bit of a shame there's no firearms-focused combat styles, but crossbow would probably fit the best since I can still benefit from Improved Precise Shot and Shot on the Run; however, faithful (Erastil) could also provide an interesting AoO-focused build with access to Snap Shot and Improved Snap Shot. I could stick to baseline, or go with wild hunter or freebooter; I think baseline would be my best bet for maximizing attack rolls though, so long as I know what kinds of enemies I'll be up against.
So, as usual, I've gotten an idea - which is never a good thing, anyway - for a build centered on using a hand cannon (similar to Momo or Ursula of the Breath of Fire series). Of course the main problem here is that these weapons in PF have a penalty to attack rolls, knock you prone if they aren't mounted/you aren't supported, and take a full-round action to reload. I can't do much about the attack roll penalty, but I can handle the other problems. I will note that none of this is PFS legal (considering culverins and double hackbuts themselves aren't PFS legal, as far as I'm aware) but otherwise I'm doing my best to stick to non-3pp content and not consider house rules with the build.
Firstly, I'd need at least 3 levels of Musket Master (Gunslinger). Musket Master allows me to drop the action to reload from full-round to standard (by treating my 2H firearms as 1H for the purpose of reloading). From there, Rapid Reload drops it to a move action, and using alchemical cartridges drops it to free, allowing me to make full-attacks with my double hackbut.
Next I need to deal with getting knocked prone. This means 1 level of Master of Many Styles (Monk) with Monkey Style. This allows me to stand as a swift action without provoking and removes the AC penalty for being prone. I can still fire firearms while prone, and as I understand it dropping prone is a free action, so this means I should be able to quick-stand after firing, or just drop to the ground if there's some way an enemy can do something to me while I'm prone. I could take Unarmed Fighter instead, since both are functionally identical for a 1 level dip, but the Unchained monk works with Master of Many Styles and has full BAB progression, meaning the only difference between a 1 level dip here and in Unarmed Fighter is that this dip gives me an extra +2 Ref save.
From here, though, I have a number of options:
- I could continue to build levels as a Musket Master. This allows me to pick up Dex to damage and makes repeated misfires a little less risky. I could combine this with Siege Gunner to make my culverin hit a larger area, but I'm losing two bonus feats for feats that are effectively useless for this build.
- Trench Fighter is another option for Dex to damage, and is fairly easy for me to multi-archetype with other fighter archetypes since it only replaces Armor Training.
- If I take Weapon Master (Fighter), I get to reroll those misfires a few times per day due to Reliable Strike.
- Two-Handed Fighter is far from ideal, but interestingly doesn't mention the weapon needing to be melee for some of its abilities, allowing me to add 2x Str to my weapon's damage with Overhead Chop despite it being a firearm.
- Baseline ranger with the Archery, Crossbow, or Faithul (Erastil) combat style picks up several useful feats, as well as some magic to aid him.
- Skirmisher (ranger) doesn't have magic, but does get access to some interesting tricks.
- Sniper/Stygian Slayer (stalker) gets sneak attack, invisibility, and easier use of spell completion items, as well as studied target.
Honestly, it's a bit of a tie for me between Trench Fighter, baseline ranger, or Sniper/Stygian Slayer. I'm leaning Trench Fighter for the advanced weapon training options and bonus feats, though.
As for race, I'm looking at either a human or a tiefling. Human is pretty obvious: bonus feat. For the tiefling, it'd be for the oversized limbs variant ability, which would allow me to use a Large double hackbut for a devastating 6d6 damage or a Large culverin for 3d8.
So, for the build.
Musket Master 3, Master of Many Styles 1, Trench Fighter 16:
As noted above, these first three levels are to allow me to get a faster reload time on my weapon. By not combining with Siege Gunner, I can focus on single-target damage.
Vital Strike means that Rapid Reload isn't 100% necessary for this build, but having free reloads is still very nice; otherwise whenever I make a Vital Strike I would need to choose between moving and reloading. Vital Strike's also a bit better since this means I only have one chance per attack routine to misfire rather than four. It does sacrifice some damage though, since Vital Strike's extra damage isn't multiplied on crit, and I'm losing an attack by not taking Rapid Shot, but the damage is more reliable.
For a tiefling variant of this, I'll have to move Rapid Reload (double hackbut) to 5th and skip Rapid Reload (culverin), as well as maybe taking Rapid Reload for the Weapon Specialist advanced weapon training instead of Weapon Specialization. If allowed to take both a variant ability and a variant heritage, this takes Asura-spawn with oversized limbs; it'd still be worth taking the baseline if I can't do a variant heritage, but if I'd be required to take the Fiendish Heritage feat or I'm not allowed to choose oversized limbs, I'd likely just stick to human.
I love the Utilitarian Mutation. It shifts the focus of a Kineticist completely without really breaking it. Worse "abuse" is free Kinetic Healer(which is honestly second only to heal for in-combat healing) and that's not a bad thing. Less blasting from you means the enemies live longer. :)
Kinetic Lancer... well, if you'll pardon the word play, is an archetype I'm jumping for. ;3
Kinetic Healer is honestly the main reason for the "once per minute" limitation. Although this does allow you several more free uses of Kinetic Healer and means you'll be able to fully heal the entire party between fights if you can get a good ten or twenty minutes of downtime. If my math and understanding of FCBs is right, a halfling could get up to 18 points of internal buffer with this mutation (3 naturally, 3 from 3 Extra Buffer feats, 3 from taking the FCB 18 times, double all of these with Utilitarian Mutation). Even if you can't take the FCB until you actually have the internal buffer class feature, that's still 16 points, which is a hell of a lot. Of course, same could be said for a halfling kinetic chirurgeon who takes Extra Buffer 3 times, but then you'd have to live your life as a kinetic chirurgeon, and nobody wants to live their life as a kinetic chirurgeon.
Slowly reading through KoP4 and I noticed something that probably got overlooked because many aren't aware of the ramifications of the changes between 3.5 and Pathfinder. Specifically, the Greater Shadowbend talent.
The reason why, is the shades spell. See, in 3.5, shades limited the spells you could mimic with it to only sorcerer/wizard spells, like the shadow conjuration spells do. In the change to Pathfinder, the usefulness of shades was increased by removing that limitation, so now shades can be used to cast any conjuration spell of 8th level or lower off of any spell list. Heal,planar binding, any summon spell of 8th or lower, raise dead/resurrection, greater restoration etc. In addition to this, shades has no material component cost, and doesn't specify needing to pay the cost of the spell it is mimicing...
So, Greater Shadowbend is potentially very, very, very good for a kineticist to pick up.
You're absolutely right; it's an incredibly powerful wild talent for people who have a good bit of spell knowledge, giving access to every illusion [shadow] spell as well as every conjuration spell 8th or lower and every wizard evocation spell 7th or lower. I do feel there's just enough to balance it from being completely broken, though, in that it's a light/void combo talent, is gated behind two previous weaker iterations, costs 3 burn, and can be shut down to some degree at least if the enemy can blot out any magical light you create and keeps to the shadows. Certainly not to downplay it though, because yeah, that's a lot of options open to you.
This talent series, along with advanced kinesis, was our attempt to allow for a more caster-like kineticist, and IMO it makes a great excuse to create a Supernova Blast build. Or better: make a halfling Light/Void kineticist with the Utilitarian Mutation and full FCB bonus.
It doesn't say anything in the text for either the baseline or UC barbarian that their rage ends automatically with fatigue, so as long as you can maintain your rage, you shouldn't lose it. You just won't be able to enter a new rage until the fatigue has depleted.
Ron Sannachan
