Quick Questions:
1) If ive taken the two-handed fighter archetype, can I take advanced weapon training options in place of choosing other weapon groups?
2) If no, can I just pick up the Advanced Weapon Training Feat because I already have the "Weapon Training" class feature?
3) Does mythic power attack and greater power attack mean +6 damage per 4 levels?
Thanks in advance :)
Quick Questions:
1) If ive taken the two-handed fighter archetype, can I take advanced weapon training options in place of choosing other weapon groups?2) If no, can I just pick up the Advanced Weapon Training Feat because I already have the "Weapon Training" class feature?
The two-handed fighter's class feature is, as you say, called Weapon Training - exactly the same as the vanilla fighter. The designers could have named the two-handed fighter's version something else, like "Two-handed Weapon Training", if the didn't want the two-handed fighter to benefit from things calling out Weapon Training.
But, since two-handed fighters don't gain more than one weapon group, it stands to reason that they can't switch out additional groups for advanced weapon training. If I where to GM a two-handed fighter, I might still allow it, since I'm all for giving fighters shiny things, but it's definitely not RAW.
I see no reason why a two-handed fighter wouldn't be able to choose the Advanced Weapon Training feat.
Quick Questions:
1) If ive taken the two-handed fighter archetype, can I take advanced weapon training options in place of choosing other weapon groups?2) If no, can I just pick up the Advanced Weapon Training Feat because I already have the "Weapon Training" class feature?
3) Does mythic power attack and greater power attack mean +6 damage per 4 levels?
Thanks in advance :)
What Blymurkla said. It's technically Weapon Training as a fighter would get it normally, but it only works with two-handed melee weapons of whatever category you choose. So I'd say yes to both #1 and #2.
#3 is also a yes. At 1st you'd get +4 (+3 and 50%, which functionally would be a +1), and 4th you'd get +9 (+6 and 50%, which is +3). By 15th level, you'd have a +24 (+12 and 100%, which is another +12.)
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Thanks Midian, thats my reading. (seems pretty beneficial, which is why i'm double checking.)
But, since two-handed fighters don't gain more than one weapon group,
Do they not? It says that it replaces weapon training 1, 2, 3 & 4 with an ability that functions: "As the fighter class feature, but the bonuses only apply when wielding two-handed melee weapons. " (Not getting weapon training in multiple groups is something i hadnt even considered)
Oh, and question 4: If i'm medium and using a large longsword, does it count as a two handed weapon for things like weapon training, or is it just an oversized one handed weapon?
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But, since two-handed fighters don't gain more than one weapon group,Do they not? It says that it replaces weapon training 1, 2, 3 & 4 with an ability that functions: "As the fighter class feature, but the bonuses only apply when wielding two-handed melee weapons. " (Not getting weapon training in multiple groups is something i hadnt even considered)
Hm. I confused my self. Thought the bonuses only applied to the "two-handed weapon group", but there is no such group.
I retract my previous statement. You gain additional weapon groups, so you are eligible for advanced weapon training.
Hm. I confused my self. Thought the bonuses only applied to the "two-handed weapon group", but there is no such group.
I retract my previous statement. You gain additional weapon groups, so you are eligible for advanced weapon training.
Neat. Anything on question 4?
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I would refer to this FAQ
Does the archetype's weapon training require you to pick a group? I would say yes, as it states "As the fighter class feature, but the bonuses only apply when wielding two-handed melee weapons." Meaning in my ears that you still have to pick a group, but only 2 handed weapons in that group works with this archetype.
As to question 4 I would say it's still in the one handed category nothing changes that. It's to big for you, but it's not counted as a two handed weapon in RAW, so outside of PFS I would work with your GM to maybe allow it.
As to question 4 I would say it's still in the one handed category nothing changes that. It's to big for you, but it's not counted as a two handed weapon in RAW, so outside of PFS I would work with your GM to maybe allow it.
Bastard Sword FAQ says otherwise.
For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it.
So, if I'm using a Large Bastard Sword in two hands, it applies with abilities and effects that work on Two-handed Weapons, such as Greater Power Attack, Backswing, and so on.
As to question 4 I would say it's still in the one handed category nothing changes that. It's to big for you, but it's not counted as a two handed weapon in RAW, so outside of PFS I would work with your GM to maybe allow it.Bastard Sword FAQ says otherwise.
For class abilities, feats, and other rule elements that vary based on or specifically depend on wielding a one-handed weapon, a two-handed weapon, or a one-handed weapon with two hands, the bastard sword counts as however many hands you are using to wield it.So, if I'm using a Large Bastard Sword in two hands, it applies with abilities and effects that work on Two-handed Weapons, such as Greater Power Attack, Backswing, and so on.
I guess it really all depends on whether or not "handedness" changes when you start applying the oversized rules.
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Yeah the bastard sword is a 2 handed martial weapon or 1 handed exortic weapon. But that is a special case.
You can use a one handed weapon in two hands putting 1½ strength and 1½ power attack to it, but that's just how it works when you use a weapon with 2 hands.
It doesn't change that most of them are one handed weapons and this archetype needs to pick a group with two handed weapons for weapon training and many abilities only works with a two handed weapon.
In any case a large longsword would just be a greatsword with -2 to hit
Isn't the bastard sword a weapon that is both a one and two handed weapon? So the bastard sword FAQ just specified it's one of you use in one hand and two if two. It's not saying a long sword becomes a two handed weapon when used in two hands.
Read the FAQ again. The FAQ says it's one-handed for physical attributes (such as hardness, hit points, etc)., but counts as two-handed for certain effects that rely on two-handed weapons, of which things like Two-Handed Fighter features would apply.
In the case of a Longsword, it's a one-handed weapon for physical attributes, but counts as two-handed for the fighter's features that rely on two-handed weapons as long as he's wielding it in two hands. Which again, Two-Handed Fighter features would benefit from.
Arguing otherwise is illogical to the precedent being presented, and is giving the Bastard Sword an unusual hidden ability that isn't otherwise there. It's silly that I can take a Bastard Sword and two-hand it for 2x Strength and Power Attack, but I can't do that with a Longsword, which is practically identical, if only a difference with proficiency and damage dice.
There's also this FAQ, which is a more general inverse of the FAQ above.
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Darksol, in the weapon's chart, it is a one handed weapon. All One Handed weapons can be used with two hands, the difference with the Bastard Sword is that it must be if the character does not have the Exotic Weapon Proficiency. All One Handed Weapons (excluding the Rapier) count as a Two Handed Weapon as far as damage and effects go when wielded in that way, even if it is a One Handed weapon in the Weapon chart.
I've read the FAQ Darksol, I just don't agree with you on the meaning of it for on Bastard Sword weapons.
So you're saying you'd allow Two-handed Fighter features to work with Bastard Swords, but not Longswords?
So... what's the verdict?
4a: Is a large longsword/wahammer/scimitar etc counted as a two-handed weapon?
4b: Is a large bastard sword counted as a two-handed weapon?
Quick Questions:
1) If ive taken the two-handed fighter archetype, can I take advanced weapon training options in place of choosing other weapon groups?2) If no, can I just pick up the Advanced Weapon Training Feat because I already have the "Weapon Training" class feature?
The two-handed fighter's class feature is, as you say, called Weapon Training - exactly the same as the vanilla fighter. The designers could have named the two-handed fighter's version something else, like "Two-handed Weapon Training", if the didn't want the two-handed fighter to benefit from things calling out Weapon Training.
But, since two-handed fighters don't gain more than one weapon group, it stands to reason that they can't switch out additional groups for advanced weapon training. If I where to GM a two-handed fighter, I might still allow it, since I'm all for giving fighters shiny things, but it's definitely not RAW.
I see no reason why a two-handed fighter wouldn't be able to choose the Advanced Weapon Training feat.
Two-handed fighter can get more than one weapon group, He's just restricted to two-handed weapons. E.g. Heavy Blades, but not longswords, Axes, but not battle axes, polearms.
Two-handed fighter can get more than one weapon group, He's just restricted to two-handed weapons. E.g. Heavy Blades, but not longswords, Axes, but not battle axes, polearms.Quick Questions:
1) If ive taken the two-handed fighter archetype, can I take advanced weapon training options in place of choosing other weapon groups?2) If no, can I just pick up the Advanced Weapon Training Feat because I already have the "Weapon Training" class feature?
The two-handed fighter's class feature is, as you say, called Weapon Training - exactly the same as the vanilla fighter. The designers could have named the two-handed fighter's version something else, like "Two-handed Weapon Training", if the didn't want the two-handed fighter to benefit from things calling out Weapon Training.
But, since two-handed fighters don't gain more than one weapon group, it stands to reason that they can't switch out additional groups for advanced weapon training. If I where to GM a two-handed fighter, I might still allow it, since I'm all for giving fighters shiny things, but it's definitely not RAW.
I see no reason why a two-handed fighter wouldn't be able to choose the Advanced Weapon Training feat.
Unless it's a Bastard Sword.
Because apparently it's okay to wield it in two hands and get bonuses with it, but any other weapon just doesn't work...
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I've read the FAQ Darksol, I just don't agree with you on the meaning of it for on Bastard Sword weapons.So you're saying you'd allow Two-handed Fighter features to work with Bastard Swords, but not Longswords?
A long sword is never a Two Handed Weapon like the bastard sword. Long swords are one handed weapons wielded in two hands.
A long sword is never a Two Handed Weapon like the bastard sword. Long swords are one handed weapons wielded in two hands.I've read the FAQ Darksol, I just don't agree with you on the meaning of it for on Bastard Sword weapons.So you're saying you'd allow Two-handed Fighter features to work with Bastard Swords, but not Longswords?
Ok, shame about the large longsword or warhammer not counting by RAW, but guess ill have to use a large bastard sword or a greatsword, thanks :)
A long sword is never a Two Handed Weapon like the bastard sword. Long swords are one handed weapons wielded in two hands.I've read the FAQ Darksol, I just don't agree with you on the meaning of it for on Bastard Sword weapons.So you're saying you'd allow Two-handed Fighter features to work with Bastard Swords, but not Longswords?
Even a Large Longsword, which is what the OP is asking?
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Ok, shame about the large longsword or warhammer not counting by RAW, but guess ill have to use a large bastard sword or a greatsword, thanks :)
A Large one-handed weapon wielded by a medium character is a Two-handed weapon.
A Medium One handed weapon wielded by a medium creature with both of their hands, is a one handed weapon that get's 1.5 str modifier to damage.
Ok, shame about the large longsword or warhammer not counting by RAW, but guess ill have to use a large bastard sword or a greatsword, thanks :)A Large one-handed weapon wielded by a medium character is a Two-handed weapon.
Im pretty sure that's what the people above were debating with each-other about, some people think a large 1h = a 2h others think only a large bastard sword = 2h. Its about whether or not the classification of 1h changes to 2h because the character can only use it in two hands. I personally don't have the foggiest, and was hoping to have that answered :)
Im pretty sure that's what the people above were debating with each-other about, some people think a large 1h = a 2h others think only a large bastard sword = 2h. Its about whether or not the classification of 1h changes to 2h because the character can only use it in two hands. I personally don't have the foggiest, and was hoping to have that answered :)Ok, shame about the large longsword or warhammer not counting by RAW, but guess ill have to use a large bastard sword or a greatsword, thanks :)A Large one-handed weapon wielded by a medium character is a Two-handed weapon.
Well, I linked two FAQs that suggest that, as long as you're wielding the weapon in two hands, you're counting it as a two-handed weapon for effects and abilities that require two-handed weapons.
The Bastard Sword FAQ says that it counts as a two-handed weapon if you're wielding it in two hands for class features, feats, and abilities. The thing is, James Risner is saying that, because the FAQ is specific to the Bastard Sword, only the Bastard Sword (and no other weapon) gets that benefit.
Which is ridiculous. The FAQ isn't designed to ninja-buff the Bastard Sword to be more versatile than any other weapon in the game, and that's precisely what happens when we take the FAQ at face-value.
There's also the "Titan Mauler/Titan Fighter" FAQ, which says that if you wield a two-handed weapon in one hand (because you have a class feature that lets you), you treat it as a one-handed weapon for all purposes (besides its physical stats, of course), such as Power Attack, Strength modifiers, and so on.
If you take the inverse of that FAQ, that also means that if you wield a one-handed weapon in two hands, you treat it as a two-handed weapon for all purposes, which is exactly what the Bastard Sword FAQ told us in the first place.
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Oh, and question 4: If i'm medium and using a large longsword, does it count as a two handed weapon for things like weapon training, or is it just an oversized one handed weapon?
Weapon Training is for a general group of weapons, having an oversized weapon would not change the training the character has or could get.
It is still a One Handed weapon for the sized creature it was made for.
^ See, im seeing two seperate opinions: Murdock, Darksol etc on one side, and then others saying its still going to be one handed.
On the one hand, darksol is providing some form of quotes of similarish stuff to support his side, whereas the other side is sticking to the more restrictive interpretation, which is almost always the safer bet. I still dont know which is right.
(oh and just so we dont get lost by quoting "weapon training" out of context (and risk thinking we're talking about the base fighter's weapon training) when I asked question 4 i was referring to: "Weapon Training (Ex): As the fighter class feature, but the bonuses only apply when wielding two-handed melee weapons.")
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Im pretty sure that's what the people above were debating with each-other about, some people think a large 1h = a 2h others think only a large bastard sword = 2h.
Actually that's not.
We were debating whether or not the Bastard Sword FAQ extended beyond the Bastard Sword, something that we are told to not do with FAQ.
A large 1h is a 2h weapon for you, period. So a large longsword and a greatsword are both 2h weapons.
A 1h used in two hands is a 1h weapon "used with two hands".
A bastard sword used in two hands is a 2h weapon, period by FAQ.
So i can use a large longsword or a large warhammer and still benefit from all of the two-handed fighter archetype's abilities? (if I know that for certain then i'm happy)
So i can use a large longsword or a large warhammer and still benefit from all of the two-handed fighter archetype's abilities? (if I know that for certain then i'm happy)
What he's saying is that, because the Bastard Sword FAQ is specific to the Bastard Sword, only the Bastard Sword lets you use it two-handed and receive Two-handed Fighter features, whereas any other weapon wouldn't. So, a Large Longsword or Warhammer wouldn't receive the benefit, but a Large Bastard Sword would.
And as I've said, that ninja-buffs the Bastard Sword in an unintended manner. The FAQ isn't written to let a Bastard Sword have extra hidden functions, in the same vein that TWF with Armor Spikes is granting a function that works outside of the unwritten rules regarding TWF.
Especially when we have a more general FAQ whose claim is inverse: that a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand treats that weapon as one-handed for abilities and effects that work on one-handed weapons, using Power Attack (whose effects vary based on the type of weapon wielded) as an example.
Therefore, it stands to reason, based on multiple FAQs, that a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands treats the weapon as two-handed for abilities and effects that work on two-handed weapons.
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So, a Large Longsword or Warhammer wouldn't receive the benefit, but a Large Bastard Sword would.
I'm not sure why this is so hard to convey.
That is explicitly not what I'm saying.
A large Longsword is a two handed weapon for a medium PC, period.
A medium Bastard Sword used in one hand is a one handed weapon, period by FAQ.
A medium Bastard Sword used in two hand is a two handed weapon, period by FAQ.
So i can use a large longsword or a large warhammer and still benefit from all of the two-handed fighter archetype's abilities? (if I know that for certain then i'm happy)What he's saying is that, because the Bastard Sword FAQ is specific to the Bastard Sword, only the Bastard Sword lets you use it two-handed and receive Two-handed Fighter features, whereas any other weapon wouldn't. So, a Large Longsword or Warhammer wouldn't receive the benefit, but a Large Bastard Sword would.
And as I've said, that ninja-buffs the Bastard Sword in an unintended manner. The FAQ isn't written to let a Bastard Sword have extra hidden functions, in the same vein that TWF with Armor Spikes is granting a function that works outside of the unwritten rules regarding TWF.
Especially when we have a more general FAQ whose claim is inverse: that a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand treats that weapon as one-handed for abilities and effects that work on one-handed weapons, using Power Attack (whose effects vary based on the type of weapon wielded) as an example.
Therefore, it stands to reason, based on multiple FAQs, that a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands treats the weapon as two-handed for abilities and effects that work on two-handed weapons.
I believe you're half-right here. If you wielded a longsword of your own size in two hands, yes, you get the 1.5 Str and Power Attack, but it's still a one-handed weapon for feats and abilities. A feat's wording is important here. For example, you wouldn't be able to use Cleaving Sweep with any one-handed weapon - even if you're using it in both hands, because it specifies only two-handed weapons. The bastard sword and katana are the only exceptions since they can be wielded as two-handed weapons so long as you have proficiency with them as martial weapons. A feat such as Furious Focus works with a one-handed weapon of your size wielded in two hands because it specifically states as much.
This changes with one-handed weapons a size larger than you, or light weapons two size categories larger. The weapons rules state that the effort for such weapons changes, so a Medium character with a Large one-handed weapon or a Huge light weapon would treat such weapons as two-handed. Because they're now two-handed, they will work with feats and abilities that function only for two-handed weapons, such as the two-handed weapon fighter archetype abilities or the Cleaving Sweep feat.
Think of it this way: under most situations such abilities and feats don't work with weapons because you can wield them in two hands, they only work if you would have to wield them in two hands.
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Think of it this way: under most situations such abilities and feats don't work with weapons because you can wield them in two hands, they only work if you would have to wield them in two hands.
Excellent write up, if the issue is a well written example based write up then you fixed the issue.
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There's also the "Titan Mauler/Titan Fighter" FAQ, which says that if you wield a two-handed weapon in one hand (because you have a class feature that lets you), you treat it as a one-handed weapon for all purposes (besides its physical stats, of course), such as Power Attack, Strength modifiers, and so on.
That's only the Titan Mauler, who has the ability to wield an appriotely sized two handed weapon in one hand. So a Medium Titan Mauler can weild a Medium Scythe as a One-handed weapon.
The Titan Fighter only has the ability to wield a two handed weapon in two hands, but he can wield a weapon sized for a creature one step larger than himself. So, in example, a Medium titan Fighter can weild a Large Scythe as a two handed weapon. A normal character is unable to wield a two handed weapon sized larger than themselves.
But we're all agreed a large warhammer (when used by a medium character) is a two-handed weapon for the sake of all the Two-handed fighter archetype's class abilities? ^^
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The large sized weapon is considered a Two Handed weapon for the Medium creature. He has to wield it in that way with the penalty because of the size difference. My only point above is that Weapon Training does not consider the size of the weapon when you choose what to train in.
It would be considered Two Handed when you use it, and would benefit from the particulars when doing so.
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But we're all agreed a large warhammer (when used by a medium character) is a two-handed weapon for the sake of all the Two-handed fighter archetype's class abilities? ^^
Doubt everyone will agree on anything here, but I agree with this.
Do remember that when weilding an oversized (or undersized) weapon, you take a -2 penalty per size catagorey difference. Doesn't always matter, but I've had power attack PCs that manage to miss quite often with their oversized weapons.
The Titan Fighter is at -4 at first level, since they get -2 from the class ability and a further -2 from the weapon being oversized. So with first level power attack, that's -5 on the attack rolls. And the Titan Fighter doesn't have rage.
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Well we can agree with the new perspective that a large one handed weapon is counted as two handed for the archetype, on most accounts but the weapon training calls to pick two handed weapons from a group, I think that one ignores the size and focuses on the chart, but that's just my opinion.
I however don't see the benefit to use large size weapons, where there already is two handed weapons that would give you the same benefits but without the penalty for a large weapon.
Longsword turns into a greatsword, but with -2 to hit for size.
Warhammer tunrs into a earth breaker, but with -2 to hit for size.
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I however don't see the benefit to use large size weapons, where there already is two handed weapons that would give you the same benefits but without the penalty for a large weapon.
Longsword turns into a greatsword, but with -2 to hit for size.
Warhammer tunrs into a earth breaker, but with -2 to hit for size.
In real life? The large longsword IS a greatsword.
Pathfinder, on the other hand, doesn't work like that. They are two distinct weapons, each with seperate feats and class/race abilities. For example, an Elf Wizard gains the Longsword training via Elven Weapon Familiarity. They don't learn to use Greatswords. That Elf Wizard can use the same training to Wield a Large Longsword (-2 to hit), but they'd be non-proficent with a Greatsword (-4 to hit). Then you have feats, like Weapon Focus (Longsword), which could be applied to Longswords, including medium and large Longswords, but wouldn't also apply to Greatswords. Deity specific weapons are also often made into larger or smaller versions, to suit the PC's needs. Oddly, Reach weapons don't lose the Reach property when you take Smaller versions, so if you want a one-handed reach weapon, take an undersized Longspear.
That's the basics.
In addition, there are many weapons that don't have an equivelent larger or smaller weapon, by another name. The Morningstar, for example, has no eqivelent weapon, larger or smaller, so if you wanted a two-handed Morningstar, you'd have to take a Large one. Dealing Bludeoning and Piercing simotaneously, the Morningstar is a good low level weapon for defeating DR.
Regarding the Titan Mauler, the advantage is being able to deal more damage with a one-handed weapon, than is normally an option. For example, a Titan Mauler can wield a Greatsword in one hand, leaving their second hand free for another greatsword, a shield, or another weapon. So a Titan Mauler could potentially be dealing 2d6 in one hand, and 2d6 in their second hand (at pretty hefty penalty to hit).
Regarding the Titan Fighter, the advantage is being able to deal more damage with a two handed weapon, than is normally an option. A Large Greatsword, for example, does 3d6 damage. In addition, a Large Greatsword will have double the HP of a normal two handed weapon, so the Titan Fighter's weapons are more Sunder Resistant than most.
Seems to be a lot of talk about titan maulers and titan fighters cropping up for some reason... Anyway, keeping on track:
Well we can agree with the new perspective that a large one handed weapon is counted as two handed for the archetype, on most accounts but the weapon training calls to pick two handed weapons from a group, I think that one ignores the size and focuses on the chart, but that's just my opinion.
Not to nitpick, but it doesnt say you "pick" two handed weapons from the groups, just that you get the normal weapon training group, and then the bonuses only apply while using two-handed weapons. Not sure if that makes a difference :)
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I however don't see the benefit to use large size weapons, where there already is two handed weapons that would give you the same benefits but without the penalty for a large weapon.
Longsword turns into a greatsword, but with -2 to hit for size.
Warhammer tunrs into a earth breaker, but with -2 to hit for size.In real life? The large longsword IS a greatsword.
Pathfinder, on the other hand, doesn't work like that. They are two distinct weapons, each with seperate feats and class/race abilities. For example, an Elf Wizard gains the Longsword training via Elven Weapon Familiarity. They don't learn to use Greatswords. That Elf Wizard can use the same training to Wield a Large Longsword (-2 to hit), but they'd be non-proficent with a Greatsword (-4 to hit). Then you have feats, like Weapon Focus (Longsword), which could be applied to Longswords, including medium and large Longswords, but wouldn't also apply to Greatswords. Deity specific weapons are also often made into larger or smaller versions, to suit the PC's needs. Oddly, Reach weapons don't lose the Reach property when you take Smaller versions, so if you want a one-handed reach weapon, take an undersized Longspear.
I was mostly talking about the weapons mentioned in questions. I mostly taking the fighter into consideration for my previous answer, the wizard thing is another question. Unless it's to use specific feats/weapon I would perfer to not take the -2 to hit and just roleplay it as a large version of the londsword/warhammer
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I was mostly talking about the weapons mentioned in questions. I mostly taking the fighter into consideration for my previous answer, the wizard thing is another question. Unless it's to use specific feats/weapon I would perfer to not take the -2 to hit and just roleplay it as a large version of the londsword/warhammer
Well, the longsword and the Warhammer are bad examples of why you'd want an oversized weapon, since they do have larger equivelents. It would only be class/deity/feat/race/ability reasons that would compel a character to take oversized versions.
I will note that -2 to hit, is really minor for full BAB classes with high Str mods on the character. At 1st level, an 18 str fighter will be +5 to hit (+7 with masterwork and weapon focus). Most 1st level opponents, in PFS, won't have the AC to need +5 (or +7) to hit. And if they do, you can always switch weapons.
As for the damage increase, it's normally pretty minor, but so is power attack at low level. The advantage of the Larger weapon would be damage increase without an additional feat (as in, power attack). And if your 1st level character has zero BAB, this can be a nice option, since you are ineligble for power attack.
Joining in on your discussion for a moment, but i mentioned longswords because I was thinking about the heritor knight, and I mentioned warhammers because of the divine fighting technique to apply GVS to AoO.
Additional questions, while im here:
5: Does Overhand Chop apply to Devastating Blow?
6: Does Overhand Chop apply to Vital Strike? (Found a very old thread on this saying yes, figured id check in case of clarification/errata though)
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Though for the more Cheesy applications. Take a Masterwork Large Oak Club (1d8) and apply the Oil of Shillelagh, to make the weapon deal 3d6 and have a +1 enhancement bonus (which, between the Masterworking and the enhancement, eliminates the oversized penalty). You can then have Enlarge Person in a Potion, to further increase your weapon to 4d6 base damage.
That's a lot of steps, I know, but it's pretty cheesy. A first level druid can accomplish all this without potions (enlarge person via the Grown subdomain of the Plant Domain). And since the Oak Club has a listed cost of nothing, a Larger version costs nothing, so you only pay the masterworking costs (300gp).
That's one of the more cheesy uses of oversized weapons.
The masterwork bonus does not stack with enhancement bonuses, since it is also an enhancement bonus.
^ I was thinking that.
Anyway, anything on questions 5 and 6?
Joining in on your discussion for a moment, but i mentioned longswords because I was thinking about the heritor knight, and I mentioned warhammers because of the divine fighting technique to apply GVS to AoO.
Additional questions, while im here:
5: Does Overhand Chop apply to Devastating Blow?
6: Does Overhand Chop apply to Vital Strike? (Found a very old thread on this saying yes, figured id check in case of clarification/errata though)
5. Yes. You are making a single melee attack using the Attack Action. Devastating Blow doesn't have "As a Standard Action" or similar verbiage, so it would apply.
6. Yes. Vital Strike requires the Attack Action, and any other forms of single attacks (such as Charge or Spring Attack) would not apply (though Overhand Chop would apply during Charge or Spring Attack).
5. Yes. You are making a single melee attack using the Attack Action. Devastating Blow doesn't have "As a Standard Action" or similar verbiage, so it would apply.
Erm:
Devastating Blow (Ex)At 19th level, as a standard action, a two-handed fighter may make a single melee attack with a two-handed weapon at a –5 penalty. If the attack hits, it is treated as a critical threat. Special weapon abilities that activate only on a critical hit do not activate if this critical hit is confirmed.
It seems to have "as a standard action" wording, does that make it a no, or is it still a yes?
it's still a yes, but it can't be combined with vital strike, but you are still only making 1 attack that round so overhand chop would apply.
it's still a yes, but it can't be combined with vital strike, but you are still only making 1 attack that round so overhand chop would apply.
Ah, that's fine i wasn't expecting it to work with vital strike at the same time as devastating blow. Thanks :)