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A while back I attempted to get the most hp at lvl 4 possible. Now im back with another character idea. Im trying to build an assassin character. Preferably this character would be able to consistently be able to eliminate a foe within one round

The goal: deal 140 damage to an opponent before they can act at level 6 against an AC of 24.

Where I am at: 91.5

Ninja 5, wizard 1 (divination)

Wizard for acting in surprise round and for initiative purposes and accuracy, using prescience to ensure hits.

Improved initiative
Two Weapon Fighting

Ninja tricks:
Vanishing trick
Rogue talent (Underhanded)

Surprise round:
3.5 (weapon) + 7 dex + 18(3*6 underhanded rogue talent) = 28.5

First round (assuming I go first):
3.5(weapon)+ 7 dex + 3.5*3 (sneak atk) = 21

second attack from two weapon fighting, 3rd attack from using ninjas ki ability

21+21+21 = 63

63+28.5 = 91.5 on average assuming all attacks hit.

Looking for assistance in building a character capable of this damage output at level 6. Thanks in advance!

When I read your post I immediately thought: Eldritch Scoundrel.

The rogue gets soo many feats. it feels like it can basically do anything out of combat that it wants. Add to this 6th level spell casting and you have a really versatile character that can basically do whatever he feels like doing.

Add to this characters power by doing Variant Multiclassing into Magus and your damage will become ludicrous. Particularly beyond level 11, however If you take prescient attack arcana to always get sneak attack against enemies.

As far as suggestions for RP, when I make evil masterminds I generally model their character after one of the 7 deadly sins.

Best of luck!

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
OMagi wrote:


Finding haleen +1hp/lvl
Finding next of kin +1hp/lvl

This shouldn't impact your build much, but Finding Haleen is a campaign trait; if you're not playing Legacy of Fire, it shouldn't be available. Worse, Finding Your Kin is the same trait---d20pfsrd just changes the name and drops most of the text for legal reasons. This does not let you take the same trait twice. ;-)

(If you mean something else by Finding Next of Kin, nevermind, but this was all I could find for that.)

Ah thanks for this catch! Also i realized they were both campaign traits, meaning I cant use them both

Wow sorry for taking so long to get back to this post. Impressive displays on some of these builds.

That paladin build seems pretty solid. I cant do paladin in this campaign since we are doing an evil campaign, but will consider it for future. I think i regard healing as maybe a little less significant. perhaps half as many hit points since it requires an action and a resource.

Dr and energy resist should be worth more because it happens on its own. So double for that bonus.

Worked up something last night:

Barbarian 2/Fighter 2(unbreakable)
18 con by point buy
Terrapin race for +2 con
Belt of con +2
raging vitality +2 con when raging
Rage +4 con

toughness, raging vitality, endurance, diehard(both from unbreakable fighter lvl 1), unbreakable(fighter lvl 2), bonus traits(via antiheroes rules... something better than this???)

Finding haleen +1hp/lvl
Finding next of kin +1hp/lvl
warded against nature (drawback for bonus trait)
berserker of the society +3rounds of rage/day

Bonus traits: pragmatic activator(for UMD), dont know of another to take...

Assuming max rolls (via retraining):
12+12+10+10 = 44 base
per level: +9 from con(while raging) +2 from traits +1 FCB +1 from toughness = 52
diehard = +29
False life wand = 7.5 average

Grand total:
132 HP, DR5/Blud, SR 15, Energy resist fire and electricity 5
Equip full plate and a tower shield alone and youre looking at 27 AC
(provided im not missing anything saying i cant do that)
Now that is tanky... but i think we can do better... Any advice on a better feat or trait to take with the bonus traits feat?

Any1 want to take a stab at trying to get to 200 raw hp?


Also i see a lot of sythesis summoner mentions. What makes them so great? I am not well versed on them

Thanks for the input! You mentioned a few things I missed about boosting rage bonuses to con.

I wonder if there is a way to get bonuses to this morale boost kind of like Moment of Greatness

Ive also considered doing something involving Unconquerable Resolve and dipping into any class that can grant temp hp.

Id also think any class that can heal itself for any meaningful damage could contribute at least a little to this number. Health healed means they will have to go through even more health.

Any ideas for Fast Healing as an option and/or DR? With an average of about 81 hp plus some DR and self healing, I think that might qualify

You could hydrolic push to move enemies closer to the fighter, or move them away as a readied action when your fighter is about to be attacked to push the enemy away from your fighter(potentially invalidating your fighter as a target for being attacked)

Use walls to split your enemies. So you only have to fight half of them at a time. Then when the first half is killed, dismiss the wall and fight the other half. At worst they have to spend a few turns moving around the wall (still a significant amount of protection, as they could potentially have been full-round attacking in that time instead)

Use mist or darkness (especially if everyone in your party has darkvision) to block line of sight. Use of this is most effective when dealing with ranged targets.

Soften earth and stone is great because you can selective hit most of your enemies and leave out your allies. You can inhibit movespeed (and ability to take 5 ft steps) therefore preventing the ability to use full round attacks if they want to follow your allies.

Another great spell is Black Tentacles. This can destroy your enemy backlines. and you can either range the enemy backline or focus only on enemies not in the spell range. The goal for spells like this is to separate enemy forces generally.

The overall goal for Battlefield control is to put an Action Penalty on your enemies. Find ways to make you enemies spend more actions either in attempts to get to you; stop, slow or delay their ability to full attack you; and limit enemy vision(really hard to attack what you cant see).

Hi I am looking to build a level 4 for an upcoming session and I am very interested in the idea of building just an HP sponge.

I want as much HP as possible, even potentially at the risk of being completely unviable. This includes using every feat, every archetype that simply boosts hp to the max and when all options are exhausted, then finally work towards actually hitting enemies.

What class, archetype would you recommend? Is there any sample build you can provide to demonstrate the numbers? My goal is at least 100hp at level 4 (preferably 200hp)

Assume crafting is allowed and Default starting gold for the level. The most ive been able to come up with so far is about mid 80s with a barbarian while raging using a con boosting race, Finding Next of Kin trait, and toughness.

The idea: To be unable to be targeted by target/touch spells by simply not being a target that is visible. The idea is specifically to counteract touch spells like snowball.

What are some methods you know of to protect yourselves from spells like snowball, most specifically in the form of no longer being able to be targeted.

A few ideas I've thought of:
Invisibility/Vanish (Have a familiar cast it on you as a readied action to seeing an opponent cast a spell OR just cast it on your turn)
Create pit directly on yourself using a ring of feather falling
Wall of <basically anything>
Obscuring mist (only grants total concealment which is a 50% miss chance as they could still attack the square they saw you in)

Any other unique ways to block line of sight?

Agodeshalf wrote:

Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

In this case, all from different sources, all untyped.

Ah, so it does. +9 then to NA. Thanks!

Took a while to read all that. That was really insightful! Oddly enough I had not considered Counterspells. Very good idea!

Syries wrote:

Untyped bonuses stack when they are from different sources.

Sorc+D.D provides a +5
Dragon Form provides a separate untyped bonus of +4
You get a total of +9 nat AC.

Source please? I havent been able to find anything that states what you are claiming, though it does not seem incorrect to say that untyped from different sources can stack.

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So based on rules for natural armor:

A natural armor bonus improves armor class resulting from a creature’s naturally tough hide. Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to armor class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses. Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature’s existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor’s overall bonus to armor class. A natural armor bonus doesn’t apply against touch attacks.


Bonuses: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

+7 natural armor

Natural armor does not stack unless it explicitly states so or is an enhancement bonus (however enhancement bonuses do not stack with themselves so barkskin and amulet of natural armor would not stack).

Sorcerer is untyped and therefore produces a +2
DD is untyped but specifically states it stacks producing another +3
Dragon form produces untyped of +4 which is greater than the sorcerer bonus and therefore replaces(but does not stack with) that bonus

Therefore when not in dragon form his NA is +5 (sorc + DD)
while using Form of the Dragon it increased to +7 (3 DD + 4 FotD)

All would be welcome at my table.
A note about fighter, RP really makes the character in my experience.

Surprisingly one of my most notable characters of all time was a fighter that had one purpose in life... to seek out and fight strong opponents. The first words out of his mouth everytime(almost) he met someone knew was 'Are you strong?' And if they didnt respond 'no' he would challenge them to a duel.

He ultimately died a happy man, in combat, while trying to lead a zombie to a city to raise a zombie apocalypse so that he would have an endless horde of enemies to fight. Unfortunately he never got to finish constructing his dojo where he was going to train other people to 'be strong'.


Nevertheless, RP should probably be very strong for an experienced playing coming in to a group.

As far as additional character ideas, I'd recommend Cleric as they have RP built in to the character creation with gods and such as well as the fact that they are good (but not overwhelmingly) at basically anything they do. Kind of a yoda of classes. Great at all, Master of none.

An alternative would be a buff centralized character, most likely a wizard, and utilize spells like haste, enlarge person and other spells that will make your allies feel powerful. Every melee character loves when they get haste casted on them!!

I am trying to build a protection oriented caster of some sorts. This is sort of inspired from skyrim's warding spells where you can protect yourself from enemy spells.

What are some useful spells and rules that could help with this build that may not be commonplace knowledge?

The overall objective is to exhibit protection from virtually any offensive spell.

Current spell list of spells that I want to confirm I am protected against:
Snowball - no spell resistance or save, touch attack
Fireball - lots of damage
Dominate Person - devastating effects on a party if i get turned
Magic Missile - unavoidable attack
Black Tentacles - no save, CMB to grapple
Summon Monster - many mini minions, quite scary

I currently have things like resist energy, protection from arrows, protection from evil... are there any other spells and effects I may have forgotten or what do you use when you're up against a super strong caster to protect yourself? New character is going to be level 5, campaign should end around level 12.

The motivation that sparked this was a BBEG in a previous campaign that could use intensified maximized snowball that he could change the element type and hit for.. I think it was about 120 damage. Same story for fireball etc. He also got 2 cast a turn on most turns. We encountered this at level 10 and got absolutely destroyed.

@meirril We believe there are limitations to his divination. such as he cant do it while in combat, and he seems to have no means of countering invisibility as of yet, but it cant be hard for him to accomplish if the need arises.

Our method of prepping involves blinking our eyes at yes or no questions and using Secret messages via [url = https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/secret-speech/]this spell[/url]

And wow.... that dust is something. :O

And the pyrausta is an improved familiar unlockable at level 3. correct me if im wrong about it being able to use scrolls. figment familiar archetype evolution to give it +8 to UMD

All of you gave great advice!

@avr That is all insightful... assuming im playing into his hands and im actually always where he wants me to be at every step of the way is marvelous plot construction and a factor i had not considered. Additionally i had not thought about the possibility of a channel energy effect while silenced.

@MrCharisma... That is a good idea as well and one i had not considered. Potentially a solution though that many a GM would disapprove of, or simply make the bigger stronger entity a bigger and stronger BBEG, but definitely something to consider.

Haha I like what you're preaching, David. Forgive me then for asking advice on how to kill an enemy on the advice forums.

But you're right, I'd probably be greeted with more recommendations if it wasn't a part of my current game.

I dont know that this is the monster but his abilities seem very similar to what out BBEG has demonstrated he is capable of doing, and rather than list out every single ability he seems to have that we have seen him do, i thought it might be easier for yall to give advice with a monster sheet.

But instead I guess the other players and I will simply... figure it out.

Our current plans are for the wizard to use invisibility on himself and his familiar. give the familiar a scroll of silence and send the familiar with the ninja for a sneak attack. as soon as the ninja attacks, the familiar will cast silence on the ninja as the Drow seems to be fairly weak vs martial. Then have the eidolon, whom we can probably also make invisible get within range and constantly trip him to keep him inside the silence effect. Summoner uses haste and we hopefully dish out enough damage to kill.

I'd like something a little more certian than that. Wizard uses divination and enchantment magic to basically ensure whatever situation we want to get ourselves into happens. So we could reasonably get close enough to get a surprise attack on the drow king.

Hi. My colleges and I are trying to think of a creative solution to outsmart our campaign BBEG. Some info about our campaign:

We are playing a Dark Souls similar campaign. We all have multiple lives. Each time we die our stats decrease a little until they reach 0 and we die permanently. The BBEG is a drow king whom I presume is this monster. Additionally he seems to have a means of remote view us basically at all points in time, so plotting against him is very difficult. we have determined that he cannot do this ability though while he is in combat and that it is some type of divination magic.

We have a summoner (trip master), a ninja, a slayer, and a wizard. Any recommendations of a conceivable situation where we can win this fight?

any idea for preventing it from running away? to track it or ensure youre able to administer the killing blow?

spell combat doesnt require a free hand.

Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

You can hold the charge and deliver the spell through the weapon at a later time, how im reading it. You can also cast a spell with one hand while wielding a two handed weapon

James Jacobs-..."if you're wielding a 2H weapon, you can let go of the weapon with one of your hands (free action). You're now only carrying the 2H weapon, not wielding it, but your free hand is now free to attack or help cast spells or whatever. And at the end of your turn if your free hand remains free you'd be able to return it to grip your 2H weapon so you can still threaten foes and take attacks of opportunity if you want."

However spell combat is undoubtedly unuseable while using a two handed weapon.

monsterous physique may be the way to go. perhaps get a form that has 4 arms and wield a light weapon in one, cast spells with one and wield a greatsword in the other two?

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/monstrous-humanoids/garg oyle/four-armed-gargoyle/

qualifies for spellcombat and spellstrike

Colour out of Space

I need a reliable way to defeat this creature. bonus points if it meshes with the idea ive already got running.

The character im making is level 7 and has 40k gold

My currenty idea is to use a cleric (for no particular reason other than good saves and the necessary spells i want) that uses a gun (to hit touch Ac against most creatures)

I want dimensional anchor, spell immunity, align weapon, and fly on my spelllist if possible.

Scenario 1:
A wizard casts summon monster 5.
An enemy cleric casts wall of force interposing a wall between the summoned monster and the wizard. This blocks line of effect, so my question is whether or not this would cause the summoned monster to wink out of existence.

Scenario 2:
the wizard casts summon monster 5 then casts emergency force sphere which now interposes a wall of force blocking line of effect between the wizard and his summoned monster. Does the summoned monster remain or does it wink out?

Can Crown of Swords be used in an area of silence?

More specifically, if an enemy hits me and both he and I are in an area of silence, can I use the crown's immediate action to summon a Spiritual Weapon despite being in an area of Silence.

Hi I have a character concept in mind and I really like inquisitor for the build, but it lacks one things... I am trying to add the spells "Blindness/Deafness" and "Bestow Curse" to their spell list.

The only ways I've found to do this are samsaran mystic life alternate racial trait and to take the hexenhammer archtype. Samsaran is banned in my game and hexenhammer feels like it is giving up too much for this benefit.

Can any find another alternative I may be missing?


@ Grandlounge

Wow inquisitor fits the idea soooooo well. Is there any way you know of to make a more debuff centered inquisitor? Specifically adding Blindness/deafness and bestow curse to their spell list?

Bump for morning crowd

@ Lemeres

Hmm.... actually frostbite magus might be a good way to go... Thanks for the tip. Let me know if any1 thinks of another class/build that could be promising! Thanks in advance!

Im mainly trying to stick to a melee build, or a character that can at least be comfortable in melee but that first comment sounds like a really cool idea. Perhaps I could combine that with a locate object/person spell/ or curse several people at once :)

Never even looked at the occultist, briefly glanced at it. Looks interesting and worth investigating to see if it matches my idea. Thanks for the recommendation!

Let me know if you have any more :)

Im looking to make a BBEG that is sent to ambush my players. Im wanting him to be a reoccurring individual, but im struggling determining his class, Level, skills etc.

The idea is to make a bounty hunter that focuses on changing the situation to better suite him and he will be introduced into the campaign as an assassin.

The current build i have in mind is a Magus of 7th level using Blindness/Deafness and Bestow Curse to gradually wear down the party, making them weaker so he can finally fight them. Hopefully this will make the encounter hard, but not TOO hard.

Suggestions for a bounty hunter class/build?

I think it means the scars and the ability to make the scar tattoos is Ex but the casting is spell completion. Therefore it would provoke.

(Ex) abilities specifically say they does not provoke attacks of opportunity when used. Additionally they can be used in an AMF and cant be dispelled. So then what benefits does Spell Scars have from being an (Ex) ability instead of a (Su) or even (Sp)?

Does casting a spell via Spell Scars provoke an AoO despite the fact thats it an Extraordinary Ability?

Can a character take a 5-ft step then drink a cure light wounds potion in the same turn if they are disabled?

Dasrak wrote:
The Animate Dead spell explicitly says that a destroyed Skeleton or Zombie cannot be animated again, so no you cannot.

Derp... Cant believe I missed that line. Thanks

If I use Animate Dead on a corpse to turn it into a skeleton and the skeleton later dies, can I use Animate Dead on its corpse?

I am lead to believe no, but if that is the case what if I used Restore Corpse on the skeleton corpse beforehand?

2bz2p wrote:
This is in GM turf, but some RAW suggest altered minds are not always "known" to divinities or other supernatural forces. A LG Cleric afflicted with Lycanthrope, for example, will become the werewolf without being aware of it. The behaviors made by the werewolf are of a different mind. When the moon does not call out the beast, the cleric remains a cleric in good standing. Only when the cleric realizes that they ARE the were wolf do they have a moral imperative to do something about themselves.

For the example with the cleric afflicted with lycanthrope, it is totally reasonable to say once the moon is no longer out he retains his powers as a cleric. How about while the moon is out and he is a werewolf? Does he maintain the ability to use things such as channel energy while a werewolf?

So if aedric takes a day off and grandor goes out and burns down a forest aedric is no longer a druid? or is grandor no longer a druid?

And do personalities from MPD have their own alignment? or is the alignment of the host of the personality all that matters for determining druid powers/ex-druid?

If a druid gains multiple personality disorder and the personality does not align with the Neutral Requirement for being a druid does the druid become an Ex druid until he cures his madness?

Example: Aedric the druid is Neutral Good and developed MPD with the identity of Grandor the slayer whos sole purpose in life is to watch the world burn and he begins going on a killing spree. Obviously the character is insane, but can this condition cause him to lose his druid powers?

If I am a Lion Shaman for example and my Lion animal companion dies, can I replace the Lion with any animal I would prefer or do I need to seek out a Lion to replace the one I lost?

If you are taking continuous damage, such as from an acid arrow or by standing in a lake of lava, half the damage is considered to take place while you are casting a spell. You must make a concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the damage that the continuous source last dealt + the level of the spell you’re casting. If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and does not distract you.

From the bolded section I'd think you "Are considered" to be taking damage from both sources while trying to cast the spell and the damage from each should add the DC.

Therefore the DC is: 10 + .5 (pain strike damage) + .5 (burn damage) +SL

Firebug wrote:

I've got a character that has been fairly "DoT" like. Basically completely focused on Acid Splash. Yes, Splash, not Arrow.

Medium 1/ Sorcerer 1/ Witch 1/ Oracle 1
Important Bits:
Medium, no archetype, channeling Archmage for the +2 damage bonus. Also providing a d8 for starting HD, moderate armor proficiency and simple weapons. Spirit surge should likely only be used to augment knowledge checks or to force a failed concentration check to be successful.
Witch, Winter Witch archetype from Reign of Winter Players Guide, specifically for the Hex: Frozen Caress. As a swift action when you case a touch spell (Acid Splash is a touch spell), you grant the spell the cold descriptor and add 1d4 cold damage to the spells effect. This is important. Also grants a familiar, I recommend either Arctic Hare(+4 init), or Rat(+2 Fort), stick it in a box and mostly forget it except for the passives. If you wanted to take Improved Familiar, probably pick up something like a Lyrakien Azata, Truespeech and has the ability to use wands (per PFS anyway) unlike other types of familiars.
Sorcerer, Crossblooded archetype from Ultimate Magic, Orc bloodline for +1 damage per die + some other stuff, and Draconic(White/Silver). Because the Acid Splash will have the cold descriptor from Frozen Caress, Draconic Bloodline will give both damage dice (1d3 acid, and 1d4 cold) +1 damage. You can also pick up the Bloodline Mutation Blood Havoc from Magic Tactics Toolbox, but you will have to cast Acid Splash from your Sorcerer list. Meaning either you will likely need to advance Sorcerer levels instead of one of the others past 4, or only get the 'extra damage' when they are in 25' range.
Oracle is mostly here for Freezing Spells(which doesn't affect acid splash), the idea originally was to use Burning Disarm but changing it to cold damage, making it a lose-lose: "If you save, you drop your metal weapon, if you fail the save you are slowed". It also has better HD, skills, BAB progression and better casting progression...

That seems really cool, I had not thought of cantrips. However I do not see how acid splash does DoT? or rather last for 2 rounds of damage

Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

From the above if you have casted frostbite and are holding the charge and someone touches you, for example monk flurry of blows, do they get hit by the charges? or Do you have to explicitly touch the opponent not the other way around? Would they be standard actions that would gave bonus damage on hit?

Sorry in advance if this seems like some form of exploitation of rules.

As the title suggests. Say an enemy is burning and under the effect of Pain strike.

These are two forms of continuous damage, so my question is if the enemy tries to cast a spell does he make 2 concentration checks one with a DC = 10+.5(burn damage)+SL and then one with DC 10+.5(pain strike damage) + SL, or 1 concetration check with DC = 10+.5(burn damage)+.5(pain strike damage)+spell level?

Chess Pwn wrote:
my issue with DoT stuff is that if enemies die in 2 or 3 rounds then your DoT doesn't have the time to be useful to kill things.

Im aware of this being the norm, however it does not change the fact I am interested in doing this build. Also if I am correct this forces concentration checks by using DoT instead of burst damage, so there is an advantage by doing this. (Under continuous damage)

Im trying to make a DoT specialist in pathfinder with the warlock from WoW as my inspiration.

There are a few methods with which I may be able to accomplish this, but im aiming for around 5-7th level maybe a little higher with a soft cap at 9th as most of our games reach their conclusion by then.

Some methods I've thought of up to this point are:

Summoning monsters, Buffs, and vanilla DoT effects.

Some options Ive found include but are not limited to:

pain strike
molten orb
boiling Blood
touch of combustion
aggressive thundercloud
flaming sphere
summoning monsters
spiritual weapon
heat metal
burning gaze
acid arrow
blood blaze
excruciating deformation
fleshworm infestation
summon monster
summon swarm
touch of bloodletting
spiritual weapon

Looking for advice on other spells to use, links to already existing builds, further inspiration regarding what classes/races to use for this build, and general recommendations.

My current idea is to go a Witch and have my familiar casting Ill Omen via Wand of Ill Omen meanwhile im laying out debuffs and DoT or hexes when creatures simply arent worth my spells :), however Ive also considered a UMD specialist for access to more spells.

Thanks in advance for your recommendations!

Chill Touch, Frostbite and similar spells grant multiple charges per casting so you would be able to hold the charge repeatedly until you've all the available charges.

However by casting another spell you lose the remaining charges...

I cant find anything in the rules that would allow you to keep the charges or multiple melee touch attacks as the spells call them.

These specific touch spells have a duration of instantaneous which is Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting. rather than a timed duration which means to me you have to be holding charges as that is the only option from the rules regarding touch spells that would allow you to even keep the spell active for more than a turn to begin with.

In regard to the Holding the charge stated above it says until the spell is discharged not just a single attack so I would say that the holding the charge option is applicable to multiple attacks from a single spell until the spell is discharged entirely.

And then it says If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates therefore you'd lose any charges you have yet to use.

Thanks. This was an enemy for my pathfinder group, and there was concern that as GM I was breaking this rules by doing this.

From touch spells in combat
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. ****If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.**** You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

The touch spell dissipates after casting another spell. Despite having multiple uses.

Chyrone wrote:

Hello folks,

I made a mob of cleric/rogues to fight the party.
It is a huge sized, so 15x15 ft.

If they occupy their space with a PC in one of the middle squares, can they do sneak attack, on top of their regular mob dmg?

Or use channel smite on top of mob dmg?

Certainly, most mob creatures factor abilities like this in. For example Inquisitor Troop has fast healing symbolizing cure light wounds being cast by members of the troop which is similar to a mob.

from the mob page specificaly:

Mob Attacks: Creatures with the mob subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature within reach or whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. A mob’s stat block has “mob” in its Melee entry with no attack bonus given. If the base creature’s natural attacks did extra damage, e. g. fire damage, energy drain, etc., the mob attack does that extra damage as well. If the base creatures has multiple attacks with different kinds of extra damage, the creature mob does all the extra damage of all its attacks with its mob attack. The amount of damage a mob deals is based on its Hit Dice. Unless stated otherwise, a mob’s attacks are non-magical. Damage Reduction sufficient to reduce a mob attack’s damage to 0 or other special abilities can give a creature immunity (or at least resistance) to the mob’s attacks. Some mobs also have other special attacks in addition to normal damage. Mobs threaten all creatures within their reach or within their area, and attempt attacks of opportunity as normal with their mob attack.

and Special Attacks: A creature mob loses any special attacks that rely on the base creature’s size, strength, weapons, combat maneuver bonus, or reach. It retains all the base creature’s ranged and area special attacks except those that rely on manufactured weapons.

Though special attacks such as breath weapons, spell-like abilities, or hurled natural weapons (a manticore’s spikes, for example) originate from all or most of the creatures that make up the mob , their parameters (range, area, and so on) are identical to those of the base creature’s attack.

Spell-like Abilities: A creature mob keeps all of its spell-like abilities. Abilities with a range of “self” or “touch” affect the creature mob as a whole.

I'd say it is more than reasonable you can use channel smite.

Not 100% sure about Sneak Attack, but from this line If the base creature’s natural attacks did extra damage, e. g. fire damage, energy drain, etc., the mob attack does that extra damage as well. If the base creatures has multiple attacks with different kinds of extra damage, the creature mob does all the extra damage of all its attacks with its mob attack. i'd say that applies to sneak attack.

Both sneak attack and channel smite should be considered in the mobs automatic damage rather than when they feel like smiting to simulate some of the enemies are using channel smite whereas some are busy casting cure lights wounds.

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