If a druid gains multiple personality disorder and the personality does not align with the Neutral Requirement for being a druid does the druid become an Ex druid until he cures his madness?
Example: Aedric the druid is Neutral Good and developed MPD with the identity of Grandor the slayer whos sole purpose in life is to watch the world burn and he begins going on a killing spree. Obviously the character is insane, but can this condition cause him to lose his druid powers?
Druids can be of any neutral alignment, so neutral evil druids are just as possible as neutral good druids. (This is a change from some earlier editions of the game.)
There are alignment shifts that would make it impossible to be a druid (basically the four corner alignments, LG CG LE CE), and there are actions ("ceasing to revere Nature") which would cause a druid to lose his powers even if his alignment doesn't shift. Generally it's a GM judgment call as to if/when this happens.
So if aedric takes a day off and grandor goes out and burns down a forest aedric is no longer a druid? or is grandor no longer a druid?
And do personalities from MPD have their own alignment? or is the alignment of the host of the personality all that matters for determining druid powers/ex-druid?
I think you'd get a better answer if you made the question about a Paladin. (No, I'm not trying to turn this into a Paladin thread, just think that applying it on a similar perspective, just a different creature, would give you a more clear idea on how you'd rule it.)
I think you'd get a better answer if you made the question about a Paladin. (No, I'm not trying to turn this into a Paladin thread, just think that applying it on a similar perspective, just a different creature, would give you a more clear idea on how you'd rule it.)
With that perspective in mind the question is "To what degree should being afflicted with MPD cripple a a character, completely, partially, or only with the listed mechanical penalties?"
Which is a GM FIAT call, as is the case with all alignment-based (or other similar) restrictions. Not exactly a good answer, but since that's what most everyone says when it comes to threads like these, it's really the best answer to go with. (Which makes me question why threads like these keep coming up when the answer to each one of them is basically exactly the same. Maybe for additional insights on different perspectives for GMs, but even that's pushing it...)
If I were GM, I probably wouldn't even have a character with MPD in my campaign unless he was properly mediated by the player with that character, mostly because it's a problem that 99% of players don't want to deal with, even if they aren't playing the character who has MPD, since such characters can be extremely disruptive and counter-intuitive to the table. It's called Chaotic Stupid for a reason; MPD, in my eyes, just gives players yet another out to play Chaotic Stupid.
And even if I did, I would most likely outright deny them powers if their MPD would cause them to do something that would otherwise normally make them lose their powers.
This is in GM turf, but some RAW suggest altered minds are not always "known" to divinities or other supernatural forces. A LG Cleric afflicted with Lycanthrope, for example, will become the werewolf without being aware of it. The behaviors made by the werewolf are of a different mind. When the moon does not call out the beast, the cleric remains a cleric in good standing. Only when the cleric realizes that they ARE the were wolf do they have a moral imperative to do something about themselves.
The Vigilante can have two completely separate alignments. The NG Druid/Vigilante can be the tree hugging druid one minute and the Lawful Good crusader the next.
So, in your scenario, if the character is insane and aware they are acting out of control and in violation of their class code, should lose their abilities until atoned, unless the insanity somehow grants them a dual identity like effect - where they completely move between the two as if two different creatures.
This is in GM turf, but some RAW suggest altered minds are not always "known" to divinities or other supernatural forces. A LG Cleric afflicted with Lycanthrope, for example, will become the werewolf without being aware of it. The behaviors made by the werewolf are of a different mind. When the moon does not call out the beast, the cleric remains a cleric in good standing. Only when the cleric realizes that they ARE the were wolf do they have a moral imperative to do something about themselves.
For the example with the cleric afflicted with lycanthrope, it is totally reasonable to say once the moon is no longer out he retains his powers as a cleric. How about while the moon is out and he is a werewolf? Does he maintain the ability to use things such as channel energy while a werewolf?
This is in GM turf, but some RAW suggest altered minds are not always "known" to divinities or other supernatural forces. A LG Cleric afflicted with Lycanthrope, for example, will become the werewolf without being aware of it. The behaviors made by the werewolf are of a different mind. When the moon does not call out the beast, the cleric remains a cleric in good standing. Only when the cleric realizes that they ARE the were wolf do they have a moral imperative to do something about themselves.For the example with the cleric afflicted with lycanthrope, it is totally reasonable to say once the moon is no longer out he retains his powers as a cleric. How about while the moon is out and he is a werewolf? Does he maintain the ability to use things such as channel energy while a werewolf?
Depends what the werewolf transformation does to him psychologically.
He would still possess the ability to do so, but much like a primal animal, it won't use manufactured weapons (or in this case, class features) naturally inclined to the werewolf because it's just not part of its instinctual ability, unless it was trained by a master to do so.
If he does maintain his sanity, then he would be able to use his channel energy, spellcasting, domain powers, and so on of his own accord, assuming he doesn't lose his powers due to his transformation. Of course, since this is a Druid we're normally talking about, I find it doubtful that Lycanthropy would result in them losing their powers.
So if aedric takes a day off and grandor goes out and burns down a forest aedric is no longer a druid? or is grandor no longer a druid?
And do personalities from MPD have their own alignment? or is the alignment of the host of the personality all that matters for determining druid powers/ex-druid?
Burning down a forest isn't necessarily a reason to fall. It can be beneficial. Clears out dense undergrowth, allowing new plants to grow. Returns nutrients to the soil.
There are a lot of different types of druids. It might be fun having multiple personality druids switching between domains and archetypes.
For your lycanthropic Cleric, it sounds like the Moon Goddess has just got another convert.
These are all potentially fun concepts. Wheaton's Rule definitely should be front and center in all this. I can see this kind of thing getting ugly if GM and Player aren't on the same page
From my understanding someone who has this form of insanity has their identity split into different faucets of their own personality. You don’t develop new personalities, but rather your personality splinters into multiple forms. So the druid what gets this form of insanity would probably splinter along the lines of various aspects of nature. One could be the kind gentle teacher, another may be a bestial warrior, another could be based on the destructive power of fire. Keep in mind that fire is just as much part of nature as plants and animals so fire based druids are equally valid.
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If a druid gains multiple personality disorder and the personality does not align with the Neutral Requirement for being a druid does the druid become an Ex druid until he cures his madness?
Example: Aedric the druid is Neutral Good and developed MPD with the identity of Grandor the slayer whos sole purpose in life is to watch the world burn and he begins going on a killing spree. Obviously the character is insane, but can this condition cause him to lose his druid powers?
I suggest against using mental illness in your games. It often devolves into discrimination of the mentally disabled. I try to steer clear of having players role play bigotry that happens in real life. Let them mock elves and dwarves, but not the disabled and not by gender.
Regarding Druids and Fire, recall that the Fire Domain is a Druid legal domain option. I've done a pyro/volcano worshipping druid before. They can be fun. Fire is an aspect of nature. Being a druid can certainly mean letting the world burn. Though worshipping fire doesn't inherently mean being evil about it. The main challenge is that Druids have high wisdom, so they will likely consider the consequences of their actions, so even the most chaotic druid isn't going to be an impulsive fire starter.
But to answer your question, the GM needs to distinguish if alignments are determined by what your character does, or, why your characters does things. If the distinction is in what you do, not why you do it, then the alternate personality should affect your alignment and possibly make you need atonement. If the why matters more than the what, then the alternate alignment shouldn't be able to affect your alignment or force you to need atonement.
I will note that since the Druid is Wisdom based and Multiple Personality Disorder is saved against by will, the druid really shouldn't be overly affected by this affliction in pathfinder. Anything the Druid can do to improve their will save will further render this illness meaningless. Taking Improved Iron Will would grant a re-roll for this check.
Fire is appropriate for a Druid, even a plant based one, though it seems antithematic on the surface. It is part of the Cycles and the Balance. Without fire, undergrowth chokes out new growth, old and weakened plants allow disease and parasites to grow stronger and affect healthy plants. Some plants actually require fires to complete their reproductive cycles.
Fire is also very useful to prepare villages for their proper return to Nature.
Agree with Murdock, to a point. It is really easy to get offensive and over the line with insanity. It is part of the Horror line-up for a reason. There is really very little more horrific than losing control of your own mind. It CAN be handled well, but you are dealing with something that go bad really really easily.
Module U1 (Gallery of Evil) had a nice splitting of a single NPC, the main bad guy, into multiple versions of himself through a magic device. Though this is not truly the same, maybe looking through the module could give you some guidelines on how to play Multiple Personality in a more fantastical way and less real-life mental illness way.
This is in GM turf, but some RAW suggest altered minds are not always "known" to divinities or other supernatural forces. A LG Cleric afflicted with Lycanthrope, for example, will become the werewolf without being aware of it. The behaviors made by the werewolf are of a different mind. When the moon does not call out the beast, the cleric remains a cleric in good standing. Only when the cleric realizes that they ARE the were wolf do they have a moral imperative to do something about themselves.
The Vigilante can have two completely separate alignments. The NG Druid/Vigilante can be the tree hugging druid one minute and the Lawful Good crusader the next.
So, in your scenario, if the character is insane and aware they are acting out of control and in violation of their class code, should lose their abilities until atoned, unless the insanity somehow grants them a dual identity like effect - where they completely move between the two as if two different creatures.
Unfortunately not.
For the purpose of meeting a qualification for a feat, class, or any ability, he is only eligible if both of his alignments meet the requirements.