Trust Me; I'm A Lawyer.


Advice


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Options in the new edition have shown me how awesome the idea of lawyer is as a character background.

It's just so thematic for so many types of characters: Clerics of Abadar, Asmodeus, Sarenrae, Pharasma, amongst other dieites along with scoundrel rouges, bookish wizards, charismatic sorcerers and many more.

So, Let's see what Lawyer PCs people have put togther; I'm sure some folks have thought up creations beyond my wildest dreams.

Also, I feel, depending on the GM and campaign, that legal lore can be a super useful skill (shame for my Cleric of Sarenrae that it keys of INT though).

The only thing that's a negative for the lawyer concept is that the Truth domain isn't very stong. (Don't get me wrong; I love the Word of Truth thematically [and vaguely remember something in PF1 that was similar that I also thought was cool], but it isn't very strong unless you have a very nice GM that is on board with it).


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Max Deception and Performance (oratory).

Boom! Lawyer!

seriously though, sounds like a nice and tried concept, i do expect some gems from this thread! (hopefully!)


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In a PF1e Council of Thieves game I had a wizard who was also a lawyer (got reincarnated into a gnome at one point and was using magic or possibly a hat of disguise to keep up appearances and attend court and such).


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I think Word of Truth seems super useful for roleplaying and social encounters, but I do agree it would require a nice GM. Or at least a GM who's on board with the idea that people who are servants of a deity are likely treated as generally trustworthy and respected folk and Word of Truth takes it a step further. I like to let Clerics and Champions get some free goodwill, depending on where they go (and which deity they represent)

Say, level 1, a request from the village to go hunt down some roving goblins? Get in front of a gathering of the village and guarantee that the party will put an end to the scourge, activate Word of Truth. Holy light fills the scene, the villagers are nice and impressed and who knows; you might get something extra for the display to help you on your way. Or an NPC might not exactly trust your party because of a botched social roll earlier; pop that beacon of truth and reassure them that you aren't here to swindle them or whatever. I might be a pushover, but I think if it's explained well I'd be happy to let Word of Truth at least give bonuses to skill checks and be appropriately impressive for people who might not be accustomed to big displays of divine assurance

Incidentally, it is pretty good for general "civilized" business. Need a notary? Find someone who can use Word of Truth and call them up if you need to check on the veracity of that affidavit. I imagine Clerics of Abadar (edit: actually, Abadar doesn't have the Truth domain. So maybe Irori?) might use it to sit in on depositions or whatever, and if something is in doubt they could attest to the truthfulness of what they heard. It'd also be useful for contracts or other things where multiple parties could otherwise lie about what they said or did. Good alternative to some sort of magically binding contract, which I'd bet is more LE's shtick than LN

As for a lawyer character, I think a Bard with the Polymath muse could use Versatile Performance starting from the very beginning to use Performance (oratory) for all of their litigation needs. That'd be more of an advocate than what feel like are the more bureaucratic functions of Cleric-lawyers. The character could have been a roving barrister, moving between hamlets like the circuit judges mentioned in Fall of Plaguestone, barding it up by collecting tales but also defending (or prosecuting) criminals, negotiating contracts or settlements, etc. When you think about it the world probably doesn't have too many lawyers, and at any rate most of them are almost certainly settled in large cities. An adventuring lawyer doesn't sound all that far-fetched


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John Lynch 106 wrote:
In a PF1e Council of Thieves game I had a wizard who was also a lawyer (got reincarnated into a gnome at one point and was using magic or possibly a hat of disguise to keep up appearances and attend court and such).

I really hope you flavoured it as one of those wigs they wear in courts in Commonwealth countries.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An order of the leaf druid that specializes in tree law.


Abadar doesn't need the truth domain, afterall one of his big things is Law. Also his followers are: Merchants, Lawyers, and Judges.


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Goblin scoundrel rogue. They specialize in "monster" law filing counter suits for wrongful injury on the behalf of the families of all the monstrous humanoid races that thoughtless adventurers killed without proof or due process. Not above using his rogue skills to plant a little evidence to win his cases.

Make him a razortooth goblin for that winning smile.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Some Kind of Chymist wrote:

Options in the new edition have shown me how awesome the idea of lawyer is as a character background.

It's just so thematic for so many types of characters: Clerics of Abadar, Asmodeus, Sarenrae, Pharasma, amongst other dieites along with scoundrel rouges, bookish wizards, charismatic sorcerers and many more.

So, Let's see what Lawyer PCs people have put togther; I'm sure some folks have thought up creations beyond my wildest dreams.

Also, I feel, depending on the GM and campaign, that legal lore can be a super useful skill (shame for my Cleric of Sarenrae that it keys of INT though).

The only thing that's a negative for the lawyer concept is that the Truth domain isn't very stong. (Don't get me wrong; I love the Word of Truth thematically [and vaguely remember something in PF1 that was similar that I also thought was cool], but it isn't very strong unless you have a very nice GM that is on board with it).

azik the souless

goblin
barister and wizard
once a humble manservent to a mighty barrister he one day decided to cast aside his soul for the forbidden books of the law ...and picked up a little magic along the way
looks- goblin with giant affectation spectacles and a huge barrister wig wearing the fines andoran gentleman's clothing

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
baahk36 wrote:

Goblin scoundrel rogue. They specialize in "monster" law filing counter suits for wrongful injury on the behalf of the families of all the monstrous humanoid races that thoughtless adventurers killed without proof or due process. Not above using his rogue skills to plant a little evidence to win his cases.

Make him a razortooth goblin for that winning smile.

now I want to run a goblin legal game based on simon and simon or better yet mattlock.

gave a goblin lawyer and his crack team of goblin experts


Temperans wrote:
Abadar doesn't need the truth domain, afterall one of his big things is Law. Also his followers are: Merchants, Lawyers, and Judges.

With liars and merchants (false advertising) there is definitely a strange relationship with the truth there. Probably best he doesnt have the truth domain.


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It’s just a little odd, since Abadar had a special truth spell first time around. (I’d love to see a deity-specific domain for the core deities.)


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Some Kind of Chymist wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
In a PF1e Council of Thieves game I had a wizard who was also a lawyer (got reincarnated into a gnome at one point and was using magic or possibly a hat of disguise to keep up appearances and attend court and such).
I really hope you flavoured it as one of those wigs they wear in courts in Commonwealth countries.

Being from one of those Commonwealth countries, almost certainly.


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Wait until the new races come out in I think October, and you could be a lizardfolk lawyer. Now, they ain't one of your big-city, slick lawyerin' types, but damned if they don't know the law inside and out.

Incidentally this reminds me of a PF1 idea for an urban barbarian with lawyer as a profession skill. They will be so much easier to build now!


John Lynch 106 wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Abadar doesn't need the truth domain, afterall one of his big things is Law. Also his followers are: Merchants, Lawyers, and Judges.
With liars and merchants (false advertising) there is definitely a strange relationship with the truth there. Probably best he doesnt have the truth domain.

Well part of his Law thing is stopping corrupt court systems and unfair trade practices. False advertisement sounds very much like a no no.

Asmodeus (the other law god) would definitely enjoy some corrupt courts that don't just break the rules (loop holes are fair play).


Temperans wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Temperans wrote:
Abadar doesn't need the truth domain, afterall one of his big things is Law. Also his followers are: Merchants, Lawyers, and Judges.
With liars and merchants (false advertising) there is definitely a strange relationship with the truth there. Probably best he doesnt have the truth domain.

Well part of his Law thing is stopping corrupt court systems and unfair trade practices. False advertisement sounds very much like a no no.

Asmodeus (the other law god) would definitely enjoy some corrupt courts that don't just break the rules (loop holes are fair play).

It was a joke. He’s got very strange worshippers given their RL reputation. Perhaps he’s also the god of redemption :P


I just wanted a chance to mention Asmodeus more. No better god for soulless back stabbing evil lawyers.


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Quote:
No better god for soulless back stabbing evil lawyers.

I cordially agree, speaking as one myself. Naval officers in particular have so many nice regulations to deal with as they go out conquering the enemies of Cheliax.


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I surprised no one has thought of a Barrister Bard. Inspire Competence on your expert witness. Inspire Defense on your client while they undergo cross-ex. Loremaster's Etude wile deposing a witness.


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Lol I can see it a Bard just yelling, "Objection!" While pointing at an enemy fiercely, as a reaction. Then forcing the target to reroll the dice.

Thank you so much for this.


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Emeric Tusan wrote:
An order of the leaf druid that specializes in tree law.

While he may not be an expert in tree law, my cleric of Shelyn will go toe to toe with that druid on bird law


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If we ever get a Strix ancestry we can make Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law.

Dark Archive

Sorcerer lawyer here. Formerlly parcticing in Egorian before being banished and taking refuge in the Pathfinder Society. Devil blood. It helps with the lawyering.


Temperans wrote:
soulless back stabbing evil lawyers.

That's a lot of words to say "lawyer" ;)


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In PF1 the Negotiator archtype for the Bard was exactly that.

And I had a tiefling Negotiator as an NPC that my players had to deal with occasionally. They had a kind of love hate relationship with him as he was sometimes on their side, sometimes not.

In PF2 I agree with those above that the Bard would be best as a lawyer but I think the Enigma muse works better than the Polymath. After all, learning the secrets and truth of the law is key to using it. Combined with all the memory/recall knowledge stuff an enigma Bard gets, there is no loop hole, obscure precedent or little known law that the Bard could not find. And exploit.

On the other hand, Clerics of Abadar and Asmodeus work really well thematically. Maybe multiclass Bard?


Oh..ok
now i wanna change my librarian to a law librarian now.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I am playing through Ashes with a goblin lawyer, cleric of Asmodeus. He recently found some law books and case law and is in heaven. He is also putting together an adventuring contract for the party. I hope that they read it first...


Emeric Tusan wrote:
An order of the leaf druid that specializes in tree law.

Later, a politician running on the Green Old Deal platform.

Envoy's Alliance

My first PFS2e character is a Lawyer Monk follower of Abadar. So far he has spent most of his time trying desperately keep the influx of goblins on the strait and narrow.

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