Mechanics of being small?


Rules Discussion


Though I haven't quite read cover to cover, I'm not seeing anything in 2E analogous to size modifiers in 1E. Besides the specific abilities that apply modifiers based on relative size, are there any size modifiers to stats like stealth, AC, attack rolls, etc?

Thanks.


There don't appear to be any stat modifiers. There are a few things I've found it affect: cover (I think), what you can mount, whose unconscious/prone body you can share a space with (only your size or smaller), whose space you can move through (small can move through huge enemy spaces/medium through gargantuan).


Could you elaborate re: cover?


Small character weigh half as their medium counterparts if you need to get carried. And certain feats and actions are restricted by size category-- mostly combat maneuvers. If you want to shove people around you probably want to be medium, but otherwise being small seems to a bit safer.


Del_Taco_Eater wrote:
Could you elaborate re: cover?

Characters your size or larger tend to provide "Lesser Cover" giving a bonus to AC against ranged or reach attacks. It obviously depends on line of sight and GM adjudication (if you're higher than both, the targets probably won't have cover). I'm probably remembering the specifics wrong, but that's the gist of it. It's very similar to the rules for soft cover in PF1.


If you were looking for adjustment like +1 to AC for being small, PF2 ditched that.

There are a handful of things that care about creature size, but there aren't inherent bonuses to stats like there were in PF1.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Small character weigh half as their medium counterparts if you need to get carried. And certain feats and actions are restricted by size category-- mostly combat maneuvers. If you want to shove people around you probably want to be medium, but otherwise being small seems to a bit safer.

Small characters are half the height of medium characters, not half the weight. Since the core rulebook is vague about the average weights of the Small ancestries, I would not go as far as the mathematical extrapolation of them weighing only one eighth of what a medium character of twice their height would weigh, but anything above that would have to be reflected in a stockier build.


David knott 242 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Small character weigh half as their medium counterparts if you need to get carried. And certain feats and actions are restricted by size category-- mostly combat maneuvers. If you want to shove people around you probably want to be medium, but otherwise being small seems to a bit safer.

Small characters are half the height of medium characters, not half the weight. Since the core rulebook is vague about the average weights of the Small ancestries, I would not go as far as the mathematical extrapolation of them weighing only one eighth of what a medium character of twice their height would weigh, but anything above that would have to be reflected in a stockier build.

The assumption is that a medium character is 6 bulk and a small character is 3. See the petrified condition.

have been turned to stone. You can’t act, nor can you sense anything. You become an object with a Bulk double your normal Bulk (typically 12 for a petrified Medium creature or 6 for a petrified Small creature),

People have had their bulk vastly discounted above the normal 5-10 pounds = 1 bulk formula so that you can actually carrying someone should the situation arise. Of note, this also seems to include their equipment, which is a little odd but probably for the best.


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I think the weight of a character corresponding to less bulk is simply a way for the rules to encourage you to carry your fellow party members out of danger while discouraging you from trying to carry large amounts of treasure. The 2:1 bulk ratio probably occurs for similar reasons, as it seems unlikely that a halfling is actually half the weight of a human.


David knott 242 wrote:

The 2:1 bulk ratio probably occurs for similar reasons, as it seems unlikely that a halfling is actually half the weight of a human.

Based on what logic? The CRB states that halflings "rarely grow to be more than 3 feet in height" which is half that of a typical human. Why wouldn't they weigh/bulk half as much, too?

(Real world data shows they would weigh even less than half, though that doesn't account for second breakfasts.)


Midnight Anarch wrote:
Based on what logic? The CRB states that halflings "rarely grow to be more than 3 feet in height" which is half that of a typical human. Why wouldn't they weigh/bulk half as much, too?

Bulk is an abstract measure, so that is whatever the designers deem feasible. But weight does not scale 1:1 with height. D&D 3e even had a table for the enlarge spell, while PF simply went with doubling size and multiplying weight by 8.


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You don't just double someone's weight when you double their height, as they double in width as well. This means you cube the height ratio to find the weight ratio of enlarging someone. 2x the height = 8x the weight.

Andre the Giant was 88 inches tall and 540 pounds. Shrinking his height by half but maintaining the same ratio wouldn't make him 44 inches tall and 270 pounds. That would be a ridiculous height/weight ratio, not at all matching his full-size body.

This is why fantasy giants are quite unrealistic. To support so much mass their bone structure would have to be drastically different than it is for humans.

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