Major__Tom's page

Actually, those levels (econ, loyalty, etc) are kind of low. They'll get a lot higher as they go on. Don't worry about it.

However:

They roll a random magic item they want and they just take it???!!!??? That's not how it works. They can buy it, at full price, but by no means can they just take it. Also, if they are not 'selling' magic items for BP, the items pretty much stay the same. You could have one or two from each district disappear and be replaced each month, but that's a lot of paperwork, I wouldn't do it.

Also, how many towns do they have? My group ended up with eight, with the king in charge of one, and all the players having one or more towns that were 'theirs'. Even with selling magic items for BP, there were more than a few times when they had to negotiate who would get to build an arena this turn, and who would be stuck with yet another brothel.

500 gp a month is rich? No, it's not. It's not enough to even make a roll. For four players, that works out to 1 BP a month. Or a very small fraction of what they can get by adventuring.

I agree with Chriso - about the Duke. First of all, XP for random encounters will have to be divided by 25 (20 + PCs, whatever that is). 2nd, the monsters will chew through the retainers like nobodies business. After a few trips where 1 or 2 (or none) of the retainiers returns, there should start to be jokes about the red-shirted ensigns that the Duke takes with him. Wives weeping, knowing they'll never see their husbands again, 10 year old boys attempting to assasinate the Duke because he took his father out and ran away and left him to die, and so on. And if you really want to make it nasty, after the first time that no retainers return, you could lower loyalty by 1 per retainer lost, or something like that. That would pull one score back down in a hurry.

If you can only carry one, there is only one answer:

+1 silver (or cold iron) dagger - magical and silver, simple weapon, and short - so you can use it IF YOU GET SWALLOWED.

If you are worried about getting disarmed, or a melee weapon if you are an archer type, the choices are myriad. But you should always have a dagger.

Dorje - +1000. Absolutely right. The party does not know the adventure, only you do. And the advice about reading the adventure several times is perhaps the most important. Skim through once fast, then go back and read carefully, keeping in mind the party makeup that will be playing it. This can help you anticipate unusual things that the module author may not have covered. (No one can cover everything a party will do).

But key is having the confidence to look at them with a straight face and BS your way through. And the best way to do that is to know the mod.

Notes - I used to use them, but that was 30 years ago. It doesn't take long - you spend two hours writing up an encounter, having everything at hand, and the party slices through it in 10 minutes. Or they go left when you thought they'd go right, and skip it entirely. Keep the notes to what you really need. The idea about weird items to insert, or names and places of important NPCs you can hand to the players sounds like a good one, for ex.

You have several options. Apparently, some of the above posters are seriously accomplished artists. Good for them. But... two hours of map work before each session? Even 30 minutes is WAY too much.

I am not an artist. Actually our group has an extremely good cartographer, but since he only runs Cthulu, it doesn't do much good in a Paizo AP.

Remember that in the original D&D (1st & 2nd Ed), the players were not shown maps. They had terrain described to them, and THEY drew their own maps.

Encounter maps - I find it much easier to draw them on the fly, although admittedly, I won't have the - what must be - breathtaking maps of some of the above posters. If you don't want to do that, much as I hate to admit it, 4th Ed has numerous flip maps for encounters that can save you a ton of time, and that work very well. My son runs a 4E game, and he has mulitple maps for villages, swamps, forest, mtns, crypts, dungeons, desert, grassland, roads, rivers, lakes, etc. and he only has four of the flip map products.

As far as travel time, sit down before the game, figure out how long it should take them at normal speed, and adjust. It's just a bit of math.

Oh, and the person who warned you about vinyl maps was absolutely right, Ours still has outlines of the dragon's cave on it from several years ago. Faint, but you can still see them if you look:)

I don't know about strange, but I can certainly provide stupid.

We were playing in the Ravenloft setting - the one that is set in 1890 (Red Dawn, or Red Blood, something like that). Party magic - one ancient sword. Party opposition - a vampire, with full D&D immunities/strengths.

Through research, we discover that it takes 1/2 damage from silver!!! ANd we have shotguns!!! Daylight hours spent collecting silver to make shotgun pellets out of. Special point made to never be alone. Stupidity begins now.

We are holed up in a defensible basement, when someone realizes that the sherriff of the town was left at his office, and he's a good shot, we need him. Dusk is just falling, so after some discussion (we shouldn't split up, yes we should, back and forth), our fighter takes off running to get the sheriff.

20 minutes pass, he's not back. More discussion, we should all go, no we shouldn't. This time two people take off to get the sherriff.

30 minutes go by, no one has come back. A single PC - the rogue, decides he can sneak through the darkness and find out what happened.

Another hour goes by, the sherriff's daughter shows up, she says that her father was torn to shreds by the vampire. The two of us remaining decide to hole up in the church. On the way there, fifth party member disappears. It's now me, my magic sword, and the sherriff's daughter, who of course was a vassal vampire.

Final battle, I managed to wound the vampire for eight points of damage before going down, total TPK entirely due to our stupidity.

It has become a byword in our gaming circle, 'We've stayed together all day, there are undead out there and it's just dark, time to split up."

I agree, a level or two of rogue, then whatever you want. But you do need to be able to find magical and otherwise traps. The idea of stone shape or dispel magic is nice, but you won't always have that, trapfinding is forever:)

I agree that it's tough being last man out, but you can still make it work for you. Personally, I'd do rogue then bard, a bard in the party is never a hindrance (in combat, I mean), and makes a wonderful skill monkey.

Actually, it all depends on having good players. Our group has been together for roughly 35 years (pre 1st ed), and have fought everything and everybody. Trying to restrict knowledge doesn't work. Having them play within the knowledge their PCs would have does work.

Example - we've become so jaded by that, that when a PC picks up a ring od delusion, or a potion of same, I just tell them - the ring is featherfall, and is so good it's actually Double featherfall, just put a D behind the ring. And they go on as though their PC really had a ring of featherfall, until of course, the first big fall. And there has never been a case of the PC finding a low roof to try it out, although there have been several of them climbing way up high to try it out.

Another thing we've found that I don't consider metagaming - is the go left rule. All modules - probably inadvertantly - are written with the idea that if you have a choice of left or right, you will go right. If you go left, invariably, you reach the treasure before you reach the BBEG. We have played dozens, if not hundred of modules, including a few of the PF APs, and it is the one invariable rule of gaming. If you don't believe me, try it, it always works. I have had modules published, RPGA tournaments by the score, and even when I know about it and try to avoid it, it still works out that way.

No, not at 1st level. Naked at 1st level - what's the difference between that and normal starting gear? As soon as you find a stick (club), a barrel top (shield), and some sand (for a sleep spell), the party is pretty well equipped just as they were when they started.

I have run this type of adventure, and where it really works is for high level. Start at 15th (even 12th would be okay), and take it through 20th.

High level PCs have access to verbal only spells, fighters that can defeat monsters with their bare hands (ok, not +2CR monsters, but monsters), etc. They also have enough magical stuff that they'll be really motivated to get it back.

The best place for this is the underdark, drow make wonderful foes, and they have enough magic stuff that the party can start to equip themselves after just a few encounters.

If that is too high a level, it could work with a 5th-7th party, they would be touch enough to start out naked and have a chance. No offense, but in a 1st-12th level adventure, exactly what would they have at 1st level that they would still be interested in recovering at 12th? Family heirlooms?

Yes, the Vancian spell system is just like democracy. It is clearly the worst possible magic system, except for all the other magic systems.

There may be some that work better, (not spell points, see the 3.5 psionicist, especially at mid to high levels - 15+ for complete gamebreaking domination), but it WILL NOT be D&D without it. Too many years, too many spells.

Also, in 1E, and maybe 2E, there were some wounds that did not respond to CLW. I'm thinking wounds inflicted by a mummy could only be healed by a Cleric of 15th level, with a full Heal spell. And they didn't heal naturally until they received a Cure Disease by the same 15th level cleric. Might have been a different monster (lycanthropes?), but I know that rule existed.

Alternative for modern rules - NPC General is currently poisened, with 1 Con point left, has just a few seconds to utter his last soliloqy before failing his next save and going to 0 con - Dead. If he is also covered in blood, PCs may not think of Neut Poison, instead healing wounds that make him a more handsome corpse, but don't do anything to save him.

GM 95% of the time, or more. It's what I love. And it really is the best of both worlds. Over the years, especially judging at Cons for the RPGA, you couldn't beat it. I got to do what I loved, I got credit for 'helping' at the con, and generally, I even got in for free, since I always judged enough slots to qualify for that.

Question - I see that the majority of responses are from the 95%GM group. Do you find, on those rare occasions when you do play, that you have to rein yourself in to keep from being a GM-Player?

You know, having to tell yourself not to correct the DM when he makes a rules interpretation you know is not strictly RAW, keep yourself from suggesting things for the monster to do that you know would be better than an inexperienced DM does? I do find that it is something I have to watch out for.

Depends on your campaign. Having done this for 35 years, we've pretty much lost patience with taking hours, or even whole sessions, to get someone back. Been there, done that dozens of times. If they have the cash, we usually handwave it, get'em raised, and go on.

A point there, if they have the money, it is doubtful that they are carrying 5000 individual gold pieces around. Almost certainly, some of it would be in gems - i.e. diamonds. Back when a stoneskin took 1000 gp of diamond dust, they kept pretty good track of diamonds. Now, not so much.

It's really up to you. You can make it into a roleplaying/bargaining encounter, or you can just let it go. Depends where you are in your campaign, and your adventure. Also, if they are short of funds, I have more than once had the temple or a merchant make up the difference, for a 'favor to be named later'. Wonderful hook to get them into an adventure they wouldn't touch otherwise.

Bottom line, if they want the character back, they should get it. Not too easily, they did die, after all, which was rather careless of them. But it should not be too frustrating either. It's supposed to be about having fun.

How about some comedy relief?

Flumphs!

Flail Snails!

Norkers.

Giant Radioactive Firebreathing doppleganging Space Hamsters!

FR all the way. We kind of have to stay with it, since I got to write part of it (the Shining South) - for 2E, I admit, but nearly all of the stuff in the 3.5 version is based on my stuff. (Okay, and the three notebooks full of notes Ed Greenwood sent when I got the project). But since some of the spells and magic items were invented in our basement, we have to stay with FR.

Converting APs - not really a problem. I just picked out some spots they haven't been to before, changed a few names, and dropped it in.

Oh, and planescape and spelljammer also intersect very well with FR.

Dark Sun is fun too - just finished five months (RT) in Athas.

The original ranger (1st ed) was based almost entirely on Strider. He cast what would be CLW, and there was a paragraph stating that rangers of 10th or 12th and above could use crystal balls and other scrying objects. That's not Robin Hood, that's Strider!

That said, the archtypes show that it would be easy for you to have a spell-less Ranger. Even 3.5 with the starting options rules had one for a ranger with no spells.

I agree. Number one problem with APs, they end just when the characters are getting interesting. Need some that go to at least 20, more would be better.

Sorry Drake, but that's not how I remember the old sense of epic.

Per 1st edition

1-6 was low level (fighters got 1 attack per round, clerics still only had CLW for healing.

7-12 was mid - Fighters at 3/2, wizards got stone/flesh at the end of this run. Everyone finished up their hit dice, got 1-3 points per level from then on.

13-18 was high - fighters went to 2 attacks, wizards got wish and limited wish, clerics got earthquake, resurrection. ThACOs and Saving Throws maxed out somewhere in this range.

19-29 epic - 29 is as far as the spell progression charts ran.

But it's all in how you played it, YMMV.

Also, we liked a lot of things about the epic book, the magic system NOT included. Love to see what Paizo could do with it.

I would be completely with the GM here but for one fatal flaw.

He rolled at random to see if he should kill the dog! You kill the dog only to prove that this foe is extremely, highly, degradingly, (add numerous adjectives here) EVIL!

Haven't you ever seen a western? No matter how much lead is flying through the air, the horses are fine. And anyone who shoots a dog will NOT live through the movie. (exception - Killer Nazi German Shepards).

I can remember starting the Rune Lords adventure. THere is a dog that is to be killed by the goblins. My players spent their only healing potion to save the dog. When it was later killed anyway, they swore blood oath, and beating the goblins wasn't enough, they hunted them down and killed every last one.

Realistically, yes, the mount should be attacked, and if it's someone like Tuskgutter, they probably should be attacked every time, in preference to attacking the PCs. But heroically, it's kind of lame. Save it for the BBEG - "Ha, Lenny, I've heard of you and Spot, the Wonder DOg" Take that - (wand flashes) see how you like riding Wiggle, the Wonder Carp".

We found only one adjustment was necessary, and it's not to halflings and gnomes. We just rejected the small/medium/large weapon charts. The idea of a halfling carrying a small longsword was just stupid. He can carry a short sword, and consequently, does the same damage as anyone with a short sword.

Oh, and in Tolkien, halflings absolutely had superior magic and poison resistance. Both Elrond and Gandalf comment on this in several places.

Level 0, at most. If they want to publish advice, cool. My group doesn't need it.

Clean up the 3.0 epic rules some, and as someone above said - more epic monsters, NPCs, traps, adventures, etc.

Level 13-15 isn't high level, that's mid level. 16+ is where they start really getting powerful, and it works fine.

One complaint - APs are really well done, but they stop too soon. They need to go to epic - finish at 20th. Biggest complaint from my group, just as their PCs are getting really interesting, the AP ends and they have to start new PCs for the next one.

By RAW, you get XP for overcoming obstacles, not necessarily defeating monsters. So if they can roleplay through an encounter instead of fighting it, they should get full XP.

3.5 and earlier, you got either 1/2 or 1/4 XP (different for different editions) for running away. For a random encounter, not to be repeated, I give 1/2 as a standard. If the monster is the BBEG, or its minions, and will be encountered later, I'll give 1/2 at both ends, when they run away and when they finally defeat it. No doubling up.

And since PF, per RAW, does specify overcoming obstacles, escaping a fight would certainly count. Frankly, too many players are of the 'never say die' type, and refuse to run away. When it happens, I think it shows intelligence, and should be rewarded, at least in part.

The only thing that should be fatal is stupidity. Yes, if the PC does something abyssmally stupid, he should die. If the party does the same thing, then a TPK might be in order. There are lot's of ways for the party to lose, or PCs to lose, without a TPK.

Useless in Dungeons! Nothing could be farther from the truth. The exploits of Bacon, the Wonder Boar, and Foo-Foo the Wonder Dog (for Dwarf and Gnome, respectively) will never be forgotten. I don't actually remember the cavaliers names, but I do their mounts. And to reject a class because their capstone ability is weaker than the others seems rather petty. When a PC hits epic level (and we do still use the epic rules, until Paizo gets some out), they can do so many things. Capstone is cool, but certainly not make or break.

I agree, with a couple of stipulations.

1. You don't restrict them from manufacturing their own items. That way, the 1/2 price for selling is matched by the 1/2 price for making. All's good.

2. The Magic Item Compendium has a nice take on it. Their contention is that if you give a party of halflings and dwarves a +2 falchion or Greataxe, which none of them can use, you haven't actually given them any treasure at all. So you do need to tailor the items just a bit. I'm not saying it should always be something useful, after all, it is iconic that you find the potion of plant control right after you fight the shambling mounds, and never fight plants again:) But you do need to give some consideration to usefulness, especially at low levels.

You have several choices

1. Make everyone start over at 1st level. If the party is any good, this means that they will protect the 1st level PC, who, after one night's XP, is probably moving up four or five levels. How is that 'earned'?

2. I think the most common solution is already listed above. The new PC comes in with - either the base XP for the lowest level in the party, or at the same Xp of the lowest level in the party.

3. Our group doesn't believe in this, people come in at the same level as everyone else. Very seldom do we have more than a 1 level gap in our PCs, they come in at the lower level. When someone dies, they pay for a raise dead, unless they want to build a new character. We have one player who loves to build new characters, that is almost always his option. No one else ever does that.

Our group has been together for over 30 years. The newbies have been there for more than a dozen years. We have tried all of the methods listed above, and frankly, the one that works is to let them come in at the same level as everyone else. In fact, the one that my players really like is to let them come in at exactly the same XP as everyone else. That way, only one player keeps track of XP, and she lets everyone know when it's time to move up.

Not only did I share the kingdom rules with my players, I put each player in charge of his own city, they all conferred on the capitol. When each player 'owns' a city, they are less likely - in my group at least - to min/max. They wanted balanced cities, and very seldom consulted the list to see what the benefits were, they decided what they needed and let the numbers fall where ever. Of course with the variety of buildings, they still had no trouble getting all their kingdom numbers way up there.

But with players responsible for their own city, they wanted balanced cities. They worried about defense, loyalty, and common sense additions to their city. The lady with a city on the plains insisted she have multiple granaries, a mill, and facilities to support the same. The gent with the city over 150 miles from everyone else city went for defense, and a little bit of everything to support his people. The kings second town, which was mostly populated by kobolds, had many more 'lower class' buildings, not so many high class shops and mansions. My wife decided that her town, only 30 miles from the capitol, would be where the rich retreated. (the rich always do). So she paid extra. Instead of a port, she build a marina - double the cost, I didn't bump up the benefits at all, she didn't care. Regular housing, only a couple of blocks, where the servants lived. Everything else was mansions and villas.

It seems like the more ownership you give your players, the more they will take it seriously, and not just as number crunching. It worked that way for us, anyway.

My group finished at size 120 or so, taking a little over five years of game time for the whole thing. They'd actually had their fill of exploring well before that, but they kept gaining new cities, and had to explore enough to include the cities in their kingdom.

I would like to see TWO kingmaker sequels. The first deals with the existing rulers, and pulls them off into a multi-planaer adventure, allowing some testing of epic rules and post 20th level adventuring. The 2nd, deals with the kids, 1st level, attempting (and failing) to hold onto the kingdom, becoming rebels, and fighting to take back what should be theirs.

Hey, a guy can dream!

We really liked the 3.5 XP chart. I realize it's not OGL, so Pathfinder couldn't use it. So it's our houserule. Through three complete AP's so far, we use the CR from the mods, awarding points as from 3.5, and so far the levels seems to come out just right. I don't know if that's fast or medium, but it seems like people move up every three or four sessions, sometimes a little faster.

Steal from them! The rogue at the fort (forget his name), is certainly capable of sneaking into camp and making off with some of the party's gear. Just a few tracks in the right direction, and many PCs (not all) forget everything else when someone robs them.

The escaped prisoner gambit is also excellent.

So each gold mine produces up to 15 BP a turn? Yes, that would certainly neate the need for MI sales.

We recently finished the Kingmaker campaign - the best Paizo has ever done!

I disallowed only the summoner, but then I have six players, with plenty of melee types, another melee type (eidolon) would have been superflous anyway, no one even wanted to play a summoner.

MIC - no problem at all. And we didn't find that the items were underpriced (except maybe for the weapon and armor crystals, everyone had one or two of those by the end), rather when items from the MIC came up for purchase, they were nearly always not worth the money.

And remember the natural one when withdrawing money means it's alwasy a fail. If they withdraw too much (enough to raise unrest to 20), the LOSE. The campaign is OVER! That alone kept my PCs from being to greedy.

Spell Compendium - not really a problem, adjudicate on a case by case basis.

Crafting - Simple. I just did not let them exceed their limits. I.E. If you want to make a +3 weapon/ring/whatever, you had to be 9th level, per the original rules. Generally, what they could make, they could afford to buy, it stayed that way through the whole campaign. But then my players were really into roleplaying as kings and officials, and really didn't see themselves as item factories.
Not to mention that events can play a part. I mean the random events listed. It takes time to make big time magic items, and if it's interrupted, money lost, start over. Sure, they can have unlimited wands of CLW, who cares? But if they start to load up on the big stuff, it's time to make them do their jobs as kingdom officials/protectors of the realm. Make someone start over on that staff of power three different times, and they might decide it's just not worth it.

Oh, and you really must allow the sale of items for BPs, the army build system pretty much breaks down without it.

The 20 followed by 20 rule was optional in both 2.0 and 3.5. But it was 20, 20, AND a hit. So if a high level PC is fighting a bunch of mooks, who need a 20 to hit him anyway, the chance is not 1 in 400, it's 1 in 8000. We have used that rule for almost 20 years, and it has resulted in the deaths of about five PCs, and maybe 10 decent monsters, 3 of them BBEGs (one was a 1400 HP monster, which my wife killed on the first hit - triple 20s - the rest of the table applauded enthusiastically - there were still 3 more BBEG monsters for them to fight in that battle.). Sure, it comes up once in a while on lesser monsters, that can be hit with a low number, so the chance is closer to 1 in 400, but most of those monsters would be killed by a simple crit, so it doesn't really matter. My players like the rule, and we'll certainly stick with it.

Oh, and in 1st edition or maybe 2nd, there was an optional rule that falling damage was cumulative - 1st 10' was 1d6, 2nd 10 was another 2d6, etc. So the DM didn't just make that up. Also, regen rings never worked posthumously, you always had to be wearing them when you took the damage. You could use them to regen limbs if you lost a limb, but never from death.

Star Wars Saga system has the best version of this I have seen. You can use armor, but it's generally stupid. Classes aren't exactly the same, but it's pretty easy to decide what will apply to what - Warrior to Fighter, Scout to Ranger, Jedi to Monk, Noble to wizard, scoundral to rogue, etc. In their system, class AC and armor bonus do not stack, although there are several feats and talents that let that happen, to a limited degree.

Luck - while the idea is cool, be careful with the execution. If my DM made a secret roll and told me something lucky happened, I would feel as if my character had just become an NPC, and my initial reaction would be to crumple up my PC, throw it at the DM, and walk away. Players are much more protective of their own luck (read - THEY get to roll the dice), than almost anything else. If you want to keep the luck score secret, that might be acceptable, but I think the players should get to roll the dice.

Optional humorous old Boot Hill luck roll. Luck was a single die number, I think it was derived (Wis+Con/4) or something like that, so it was usually 8-10. WHen the player would die (and only then), they could make a luck roll on a D20, less than luck meant they lived - ONLY if they could come up with a reason why the bullet (usuallY) had not killed them. And they could only use each reason ONCE!. New players were always advised to save the old 'Bullet glanced off my pocket watch' excuse for when they couldn't think of anything else.

Do remember that the Hobbit was a children's book.

"We're going to face the last remaining dragon in the world, one that slaughtered our entire nation by himself. Weapons - we can throw rocks."

"Oh look, Beorn gave us all masterwork bows and arrows. Cool. Oh look, spiders. Let's shoot all the arrows at the spiders and throw the bows away."

After Bard slays Smaug.

"Cool. We now all have +3 armor, +3 shields, +3 helmets, and +3 axes (mithral in 1st ed was automatically +3) - against an army of orcs wearing leather armor. Yes, the 13 of us DO count as an army by ourselves."

Old 1st edition saying - 'In a world with only 1st level magic users, the 5th level MU is an archmage - I.E. Gandalf".

The books are unmatchable, but do not translate very well to D&D. Which is okay.

To continue - technically the LEVELs stack, if you have two classes that have sneak the levels stack for purposes of damage (see numerous 3.5 prestige classes with sneak attack). You do NOT get 2d6 at 2nd level, you have to wait for third.

No. But at 3rd level (2nd level of either, it would become 2d6. Levels of sneak add together, they don't specifically stack.

Well, I was the GM, so that's not a problem. And while I have not closely examined the DF RPG, your impression mirrors mine.

The wizard and I came up with a number of spells, clearly all based from the books. Following the rules for force powers, he had a good spell selection. He was also THOROUGHLY afraid of the White Council, and of breaking any of the rules of magic. We came up with a version of a slow spell (I know, not strictly DF canon), and that's what he used about half the time, since it couldn't kill anyone.

If was the vamp and the werewolf that really kicked butt. Following the talent trees and the feats - the werewolf started with a mere 2d4 bite (ala the old wolf from D&D 1st ED). Add a few feats, a couple of talents, and by 9th level she was doing 4d10 damage with a bite. I also ruled that since she did indeed use magic (only 1 spell, but she was using it), she could take the 'force/magic' talents, so she grabbed DR10.

The vamp - we went with two 'vampire powers'. He could charm - obviously - and he could 'vamp out'. Using the Saga rules, that meant he got double attack for free - when he was using his 'vampire stamina'. Later on, he bumped it to triple attack, and even bumped up the time for his 'vamping out'. He also took a feat for doubling that. Thus, if he wanted it was possible for him to do up to 6 attacks in a round, with increased str(+8). Of course after about five rounds, he was in BIG trouble, he never ever took it that far. (Will saves to keep from feeding on the nearest person - HIGH will saves).

The merc and the cop were variations on the soldier, obviously, with extra skills for the cop, and extra resources for both (roleplaying mostly, but some material as well).

The crook - one of Marcone's, basically a scout, with good monetary resources, and a boss who had a very strict, if warped, code of honor. The hook was that he had to keep an eye on the wizard and report back, in case the wizard became as big a pain as HD.

I even included destiny points. But since I didn't want to ever have to actually deal with them, they had really far ranging destinies.

The cops - take down Marcone
The crook - take over Marcone's spot.
The wizard - replace ancient Mai on the council
The merc - kill ancient Mai (they had a history, brave fearless merc would run like a whipped puppy if he even heard the name).

I didn't want to use Eb, so I made the Gatekeeper the wizard's original mentor. I had a great deal of fun with that, his basic training method was to show up if the wizard screwed up, hit him with a stick, bawl him out, and leave.

The one rough spot, and it was important, is exactly how to restrict the magic. In SW, you get to use each force power you know once per day, unless you spend 'dresden points', to recover it. But clearly, Harry used the same spell over and over. We tried just putting a number on it, if he knew ten spells, that meant he could cast ten spells in a day. But that doesn't take into account difficulty. Clearly a tracking spell, or a force shield, take less effort than one of the earth magic spells Harry knew. That was something we are/were still working on (we're doing Gamma world right now, and just finished nine months doing Kingmaker, so it's been a while since we played DF)

Oh, I also included element preferences - Harry clearly fire, Ramirez water, Elaine probably air (because of the lightning) - not a big deal, it just added +2 to the use magic roll to cast the spell, and an extra dice of damage to the effect.

We really wanted to play Dresden files, (before they came out with the game rules), but the magic system was just too different. What we found that worked, and extremely well, was to use SW Saga rules, of course subbing magic for the Force. Classes were - cop, crook, wizard, merc, WCvamp, werewolf (the Billy kind, not the others), 1/2 fey.

The surprising thing - as we ran through, is how close it came to the books. By the time the werewolf was 10th level, it came very close to matching in power Billy as described in the later books. Likewise the WCVamp. The wizard was a bit underpowered compared to Harry (of course), but probably compared evenly with Elaine or Ramirez.

Mojorat: You are correct. Epic 3.5 spells were 10th level spells, not uper 9th. The casting system didn't work very well, I had one wizard who learned the frog spell, the rest were happy to use higher level spell slots to memorize spells like quickened maximized horrid wilting, and so on. But there were some good examples of spells more powerful than a wish.

I'm sorry, but 12 pages of backstory for a 1ST LEVEL PC has a place in my house. The place is the shredder we keep under the computer desk. I wholeheartedly agree that most of the PCs background/story will be determined in play. Kingmaker was a wonderful example. The players rolled up their characters, picked a few traits, and that was enough for us to run with. They developed into quite unique individuals over the course of the campaign.

Anything over a short paragraph is wasted effort. You just need to give both players and DM a steer to work with, the rest follows easily.

Example: One of our players had created a half-orc cleric, ex-hooker, greataxe wielder. He had missed the first session, and we met his cleric when she was confronting a bunch of bugbears. As negotiations broke down, she pulled a 'bluff'. She pulled out a gold piece, told the bugbear leader 'watch this', tossed the coin in the air, pulled out her axe and rolled a natural 20, confirmed the crit, and did max damage (48 or 56..) way enough to cut his head clean off. After that, there was nothing in her background that could ever be significant, compared to what we had witnessed.

In the first place, as most writer's workshops will tell you, there are actually only seven plots. Everything is a variation of one of them.

That said, I have not only written, but have had published adventures based on Big Jake and Hang'em High (as a two parter). As the editor told me, you can get away with almost anything, if it can be called satire.

The Xanth books offered much amusement and adventure (take magic and bump it up ten fold, in ways they don't expect). When they throw a fireball, suddenly it has a 60' radius, and does double the damage. A stoneskin turns them to solid stone. Dispel Magic = death spell, because everything in Xanth is magic.

Dumas' Three Musketeers is a font of adventures for swashbucklers, I got five RPGA tournament rounds out of it without seriously scratching the surface. I never did it, but Count of Monte Christo would also work very well.

Jumanji would make a fun one night adventure where anything goes (all the better because, theoretically, you could put everything back after the adventure, leaving them with nothing but XP for their trouble).

If I told my players that they had to run a temp character until I could work them in, they would crumple it up, throw it at me, and leave, telling me to call them when they could play their PC. And if I was playing, I would do the same. There is never an excuse for a DM taking longer than 30 minutes (5 is better) to work a new PC back into the game.

XP should ALWAYS be split evenly. If you die, we even use the old rules - you get an extra 1000 for being dead. Even if the rogue sneaks in ahead and disarms ten traps and ambushes a guard by himself, we split the XP. Over the years, it always evens out.

PCs joining the party should always be at least the level of the lowest level member of the party. If you want them to start behind, they start at the minimum necessary for that level.

Not truly realistic, but my players always split up magic so that it goes to whoever can use it most. It makes a certain kind of sense, if you give the +4 armor to the tank, rather than sell it in town, the tank can absorb many more hits, which keeps the monster from getting to you. And as someone said, if the extra magic is in someone's backpack, at the very least, a loan could be arranged.

Sounds like your DM needs a lot more practice. Or maybe, go with the consensus, find a good DM.

Our most notable epic fail goes back to 2nd edition. Of course we use the Skip Williams suggested fail, you have to roll 2 1's in a row to damage self or party member.

Our ranger, an archery specialist (doesn't mean the same thing in 2nd Ed that it does now, but still potent), spyed a thug on the bridge into town, menacing an old woman. He aimed an arrow to hit the thug in the hand as he reached for the old woman's basket. Double ones, he hit the old lady in the thigh. (Our DM wouldn't force him to kill the old lady just because of a ONE bad roll).

Later, feeling responsible, the ranger is hanging around the old woman's farm, when he spies goblins stealing her milk cow. Right, Double ones, he killed the cow!

Last scene - he feels really responsible now, he is going to offer to pay for the cow. He looks in the window, and she wakes up and sees her attacker in the window. DM ruled that a system shock roll was called for, let the ranger make it, Anything under a 92% and she would be okay. Result of course, 00. The old lady collapsed dead, of a heart attack. We, and the rest of the authorities ran the ranger out of town, the player started a druid who never got near a missile weapon.

There is one major flaw in the 'Unbeatable champion", which the PCs can certainly use to their advantage. The barbarian champion wants to kill PCs, so he's doing damage, not jousting. The PC champion in my game, who did have most of the mounted combat feats, and was thoroughly drunk (dwarf F13 on Warpig), took three or four shots, maybe 100 pts plus in damage, and eventually cleanly unseated the barbarian.

If you really want to control it, go back to 1st & 2nd edition rules. Age 1 year for EVERY casting of haste. And it was scaled, that was for humans and halflings. Dwarves/gnomes - it was 3 years, and elves was 10. If you do that, potions of longevity and elixers of youth will become very important, make sure they show up every once in a while in the treasure. Haste will still be used, but not as an every battle occurrance, rather an every really important battle occurrance.

Although in the old rules it also said you should keep track of natural aging and haste aging separately, we found that too much paperwork. So watch out for the wizard voluntarily hasting himself whenever he does anyone else, to get older and add Wis and Int points.

Oh, and personally, I don't have a problem with Haste. It's a useful spell, but not really overpowering.

Yes, and No. It sounds like a fun, challenging adventure. You have warned them, and it sounds like one of the PCs is continually warning them. So from that aspect, no.

However, it is really hard to get PCs to run away. I remember a Star Wars where we were all 4th & 5th level, fighting are way through a pyramid, when Darth Vadar walks around the corner. We STILL didn't run away. After several hours of frustrating combat, the rescue ship we had called smashed through the side of the pyramid. My jedi stayed behind to buy them time, Vadar cut off both of my arms, and they seized me with a tractor beam and got out of there.

I have also designed numerous encounters or run encounters from published mods that I was sure would result in a flee or TPK. I can remember one TPK (because a PC was secretly evil, and turned on them for a chance to become a demigod), and one flee (because the last one standing was a druid who was an abject coward). For the TPK, they had already established the means of cloning themselves, for the Flee, the druid eventually reincarnated all of them.

Your players always surprise you. From the sound of it, I would give the BBEG odds of no more than 50/50. It's simple math. Five players, one DM. FIve times the chance to think of something you didn't. Not to mention plain old luck/karma coming into play. Let us know how it goes.

Go with an old standby

1. Party meets tribe, everything is cool, tribe promises to help if party heals daughter of chief (cleric just has to memorize remove disease in the morning). Make sure he has used it, if he has it already, on a crew member or as many as necessary so that he can't heal daughter that night. Or else she is not available until morning.

2. During the night, large - dinos, great ape (think Kong), dragon, choose your favorite CR15 or so monster, attacks tribe. Kills some warriors, runs off. Daughter is missing.

3. Tribes reaction - not favorable. Big bad whatever was quiesent until they showed up, they are responsible. Crew members held hostage until daughter returned, monster defeated. (Party may actually be able to off the whole tribe, depending on power level, but not without losing their entire crew).

4. Tracks remarkably easy to follow, throw in a few wandering monsters - your choice, bullettes, cockatrices, whatever.

5. Find missing warrior, near death. Knows that big bad was under control of devil/demon/vampire, whatever. If BBEG can be defeated, monster will return to rest and not bother tribe. Knows directions to lair (tracks work as well). Your call - warrior can be turned by BBEG, goes with party and attacks them in final battle.

6. Face big monster in big cave, BBEG lurks in background, helping with spells or buffs. Daughter is held in cage (way up high), rogue may be able to free her during battle. BBEG may or may not face PCs, probably runs away to fight another day, but your call. If you pick a glabrezu, he might want to face the fighter. If it's a vampire, he probably won't.

7. Reward party if they take steps to face BBEG and leave big monster alone. Possible roleplaying with Kong.

8. Possible hook at the end, if there's time. Daughter is in love with rogue, wants to travel with him. Chief doesn't think that's funny at all. (Probably rogue doesn't either, as she prattles on about settling down with seven kids and so on).

Sure, the rescue the princess is trite and has been done a thousand times. That's because it works. You can always add variations to make it not so similar;

Maybe the princess has a Cha of 3, not only ugly, but mean and whining. And maybe the chief rewards the party by letting them pick which one will marry the daughter, and become the new chief of the tribe (allowing the party to sneak out at night, hopefully). Maybe Kong (or the big monster) is a tribal totem, if the party kills it the tribe will be devastated. Just use your imagination, and your knowledge of the party, and have fun.

I agree - Spell Mastery. Not only to have 8th & 9th level spells always available, but make sure you have Fabricate or Major Creation on the list as well. (By 17th level, Spell Mastery will probably yeild 8 or 9 spells). That way, if you're ever in an adventure that begins "You wake up naked in...", you can fashion holy symbols for the cleric types, and have spells you can cast until you can get your hands on spellbooks, and transfer spells to it.

Noblejohn - you said that since the ranger has a higher perception than you, it's pretty much useless. Just how much higher. 20? Unless it's something like that, I would think that it's hardly useless. I know of no party that just wants to depend on one party member to detect ambushes, etc. And unless the difference really is 20, some of the time your result will be higher than his. Some of the time, he'll actually fail completely, and you may fail completely, and the unobservant wizard may make the perception check.

Laithorian - If you've never had anyone use the appraise skill, you're not trying to cheat your PCs often enough. Is everyone they've ever had financial dealings with completely honest? Quite the campaign world you have there:) Someone should ALWAYS have appraise, even if they only have a few points in it. And unlike perception, that is a skill that can be covered by just one PC.