Placing Treasure: Question

[OriginalAragorn]

Hi there,

I’m trying to figure out the GM guidelines in Chapter 12, particularly about Placing Treasure. If I follow the guidelines on Table 12-5, it states that a party with APL2 (to use an example) should have 550gp of treasure per encounter for Medium progression.

So here are my questions:

1. When Table 12-5 says “Treasure per Encounter,” I assume I should just add up all the treasure I place and divide it by the total number of MONSTER encounters, and this should be close to the Treasure per Encounter.. right? Granted, some encounters will have 0 treasure and others will have a large horde. But the average should be 550gp (in my example of APL2, Medium Progression).

2. When I’m placing non-magical valuable items (such as Masterwork weapons and Jewelry/Gems), which value do I use when totaling the treasure horde amount: the Price or its Value to the PC’s? For a Masterwork Lt. Crossbow (which costs 335gp), would I use the 335gp as the value in the horde or 167gp (50% value – which the PC’s could sell it for)?

3. Same question with Magic Items. Chapter 15 says +1 Weapons are worth 2000gp, but a PC could only sell it for 1000gp. So which value is used when I try to arrive at the “Treasure per Encounter?”

I also have the same questions on Table 12-4 (Wealth by Level):
-Similar to the above question, is a +1 Weapon worth 2000gp or 1000gp? If I’m allowing a PC to start at 3rd level, they should have about 3000gp of wealth. So it seems pretty important to distinguish which value to use.

Thanks!

[Kelsea Wessel]

I will always use the purchase price of something as the value I consider when creating a treasure. I do this because if I used the likely resale value, players could potentially get an item that is more powerful than they should be getting at their level.

EDIT: Or more good gear than I want to give them. I'm stingy with item drops though.

[OriginalAragorn]

Dale Wessel wrote:

I will always use the purchase price of something as the value I consider when creating a treasure. I do this because if I used the likely resale value, players could potentially get an item that is more powerful than they should be getting at their level.

EDIT: Or more good gear than I want to give them. I'm stingy with item drops though.

Thanks Dale! That is my inclination as well.

Does anyone else have a different approach?

When figuring out the wealth of a treasure horde (and/or the wealth of a PC), do you use Purchase price of a magic item or the Re-Sale price (50%)?

[Major__Tom]

I agree, with a couple of stipulations.

1. You don't restrict them from manufacturing their own items. That way, the 1/2 price for selling is matched by the 1/2 price for making. All's good.

2. The Magic Item Compendium has a nice take on it. Their contention is that if you give a party of halflings and dwarves a +2 falchion or Greataxe, which none of them can use, you haven't actually given them any treasure at all. So you do need to tailor the items just a bit. I'm not saying it should always be something useful, after all, it is iconic that you find the potion of plant control right after you fight the shambling mounds, and never fight plants again:) But you do need to give some consideration to usefulness, especially at low levels.

[Some call me Tim]

Major__Tom wrote:

2. The Magic Item Compendium has a nice take on it. Their contention is that if you give a party of halflings and dwarves a +2 falchion or Greataxe, which none of them can use, you haven't actually given them any treasure at all.

Well, you have given them treasure, merely what it resale value is worth. A +2 greatsword that is inappropriately-sized or otherwise unusable is the same as giving them a ruby worth 4000gp. It's even better than giving them 4000gp because a greatsword is a lot easier to carry.

Now, some of this depends on if you run a Mage-Mart world where its easy to buy and sell weapons. Where PCs can trade in those unusable weapons on something they want.

Tom is right that at low levels you need to make sure that useful items are found. There is nothing worse than running around at 5th level with no appropriate magic weapons and facing DR/magic creatures because you were fighting kobolds and the nearest Mage-Mart is half a world away.

As your PCs progress use the wealth by level to keep an eye on them. Are they too poor or too rich? When you do, consider how useful the items are in valuing them. A folding boat in the desert is not worth 7200gp. A +1 giant-bane bastard sword is worth a lot more than 8300gp when you are fighting an of ogres, trolls, and giants.

If the PC are getting too rich be stingy with the loot. Too poor, give them some more.

As an aside, make sure you don't but all the treasure in just one or two well-hidden places. The PCs might miss or bypass the horde only to suffer later because of a lake of treasure.

[kikanaide]

Some call me Tim wrote:

A great response, followed by: The PCs might miss or bypass the horde only to suffer later because of a lake of treasure.

I laughed out loud at that one. Great response, though, really... just an epic typo.

[mdt]

kikanaide wrote:

Some call me Tim wrote:

A great response, followed by: The PCs might miss or bypass the horde only to suffer later because of a lake of treasure.

I laughed out loud at that one. Great response, though, really... just an epic typo.

Two actually. :) Hoard vs Horde and Lake of Treasure vs Lack of Treasure.

I had this mental image of the party staring at a lake of diamonds, vetching and moaning because their were no monsters to fight for it, meanwhile the horde of minotaurs were all waiting behind the secret door in the rock behind them, giggling and waiting for the elf to notice the secret door and open it up. :)

[Some call me Tim]

kikanaide wrote:

Some call me Tim wrote:

A great response, followed by: The PCs might miss or bypass the horde only to suffer later because of a lake of treasure.

I laughed out loud at that one. Great response, though, really... just an epic typo.

I'm glad I made you laugh. Of course I'm horrified that I made two typos in one sentence.

I just can't believe my typos got a laugh, while my witty analysis of the interaction of casting awaken animal on a bear and ranger favored enemy got absolutely nothing.

[mdt]

Some call me Tim wrote:

kikanaide wrote:

Some call me Tim wrote:

A great response, followed by: The PCs might miss or bypass the horde only to suffer later because of a lake of treasure.

I laughed out loud at that one. Great response, though, really... just an epic typo.

I'm glad I made you laugh. Of course I'm horrified that I made two typos in one sentence.

I just can't believe my typos got a laugh, while my witty analysis of the interaction of casting awaken animal on a bear and ranger favored enemy got absolutely nothing.

You worked too hard for that one. The two typo's seemed much more natural and funny. :)

[Some call me Tim]

mdt wrote:

You worked too hard for that one. The two typo's seemed much more natural and funny. :)

I actually started out writing a serious response, that since an awakened animal is magical beast, favored enemy wouldn't count because well, a magical beast thinks differently, why, because it smarter. I wish I could say I spent more time thinking about it.

I can't believe I didn't get a least a couple of groans outta it. I wonder if a lot of people didn't know who Yogi Bear is. Shrugs.

Anyway, I was thinking more about the "unguarded" treasure. I am going to have to figure a way to put that into a campaign. I can just imagine my players finding unguarded treasure and thinking, "It can't be this easy. We better look around first."