Lune's page

Accomplished Sneak Attacker can only be taken once. Doesn't help much.

It helps exactly 1d6. I never claimed more or less. That is basically 2 levels worth of Rogue. As mentioned Precise Strike makes up for another 1d6. But when it was for every one of your attacks and your Animal Companion's attacks that adds up fast.

If you go the Rogue/Hunter route, with TW feats shared between both AC and the PC, there is the TW feat Precise Strike so that both of you add +1d6 Precision damage when Flanking. It's not much, but it's there.

That is literally the build that I just mentioned 3 posts above yours. :) But I agree, it is a good build.

My son has a TWF Grippli Hunter/Rogue with a Chameleon Animal Companion that he uses to great effect. The Chameleon is spec'd for stealth, climb and grappling. They sneak along walls and ceilings, the Chameleon grapples them up with the tongue and the Grippli slices them to shreds with TWF sneak attacks. The character has a ton of skills, comes equipped with healing and very handy hunter spells and is fairly versatile and survivable.

Look, getting sneak attack on every attack is powerful. You are going to have to make sacrifices and investments somewhere to accomplish this. But when you get it this is a powerful mechanic. Diminishing a concept by saying it doesn't help much or isn't good both misses the point (the OP wants a build focused on sneak attacking on every attack) and is short sighted. Getting an extra 1d6 on every attack is powerful. Getting an extra 1d6 on every attack for both you and your Animal Companion is amazing. Especially when your Animal Companion has a lot of attacks and can pounce. Its even better when you are getting a +4 flanking bonus on every attack and likely getting bonus attacks (for both you and your Animal Companion) from AoOs thanks to Combat Reflexes, Paired Opportunist, large sized threatened area and Broken Wing Gambit. All of those attacks with +8 (+4 flanking +4 Paired Opportunist) sneak attacks.

I can offer a bit more direction.

I will probably run them through some classic PFS type scenarios at first. Likely heavily altered to include some ongoing plot hooks that I will be setting up for each character and the team as a whole. Once they have a couple of adventures under their belt I would like to have them handle a mission where they are going to speak with and convince some other Pathfinders to join them. These member will vary in rank and level and I plan on setting some of them up as recurring NPCs. Many will be allies, most will have some personal agendas, some may be Aspis double agents, spies or other villainous types.

I have yet to decide what kind of NPCs to setup as their Venture Lieutenant and Venture Captain. I have a few ideas for some of the other NPCs but could use more. I like to create adventures around motives as I feel this grants a more realistic environment so NPCs with motives and agendas are best.

One of the early missions that they will need to do after splitting off to form their lodge is to establish a base of operations. I have one that I have built that I plan on setting up as a "dungeon" for them to clear out and move into. Geographically they will get to choose where this is located on Golarion but not something so specific as "inside a volcano". Mostly they are choosing where on the world map they would like to be stationed at.

I was thinking that the base could either have been a buried forgotten Sky Citadel that has fallen into disrepair or the remains of a space ship. Either way I have a rather secretive NPC Pathfinder who is interested in the complex as a means of returning home ... to Akiton. So perhaps there could be some sort of broken portal there? Or a shuttle that he needs to obtain parts to repair?

I would like to have one of the BBEG late game mover and shakers to be Treerazor. I have ran across some scenarios that mention him. I am unsure if he is part of any modules. But I am looking for plots that involve him, his followers, cultists, etc. Or anything that could be easily adapted to fit.

Another thing I am thinking of doing is picking something like Jacob's Tower (from Zenith's Games) or some other similar dungeon and using each level of it as a point of advancement for the party. My groups typically like the GM to track leveling themselves rather than using XP. I was thinking that they will need to complete each level of the dungeon to advance a character level. I could even make it part of a curse that has fallen on the party. I do not yet own this product so I am unfamiliar with the end but I'm sure it is something I could work into the plot.

So basically while I plan on coming up with a lot of original content and modifying any pre-existing content that I use I could use some help coming up with existing sources to pull on for this endeavor. I know there are those more knowledgeable than I with existing scenarios, modules and APs. Could anyone offer some help, please?

I can offer a bit more direction.

I will probably run them through some classic PFS type scenarios at first. Likely heavily altered to include some ongoing plot hooks that I will be setting up for each character and the team as a whole. Once they have a couple of adventures under their belt I would like to have them handle a mission where they are going to speak with and convince some other Pathfinders to join them. These member will vary in rank and level and I plan on setting some of them up as recurring NPCs. Many will be allies, most will have some personal agendas, some may be Aspis double agents, spies or other villainous types.

I have yet to decide what kind of NPCs to setup as their Venture Lieutenant and Venture Captain. I have a few ideas for some of the other NPCs but could use more. I like to create adventures around motives as I feel this grants a more realistic environment so NPCs with motives and agendas are best.

One of the early missions that they will need to do after splitting off to form their lodge is to establish a base of operations. I have one that I have built that I plan on setting up as a "dungeon" for them to clear out and move into. Geographically they will get to choose where this is located on Golarion but not something so specific as "inside a volcano". Mostly they are choosing where on the world map they would like to be stationed at.

I was thinking that the base could either have been a buried forgotten Sky Citadel that has fallen into disrepair or the remains of a space ship. Either way I have a rather secretive NPC Pathfinder who is interested in the complex as a means of returning home ... to Akiton. So perhaps there could be some sort of broken portal there? Or a shuttle that he needs to obtain parts to repair?

I would like to have one of the BBEG late game mover and shakers to be Treerazor. I have ran across some scenarios that mention him. I am unsure if he is part of any modules. But I am looking for plots that involve him, his followers, cultists, etc. Or anything that could be easily adapted to fit.

Another thing I am thinking of doing is picking something like Jacob's Tower (from Zenith's Games) or some other similar dungeon and using each level of it as a point of advancement for the party. My groups typically like the GM to track leveling themselves rather than using XP. I was thinking that they will need to complete each level of the dungeon to advance a character level. I could even make it part of a curse that has fallen on the party. I do not yet own this product so I am unfamiliar with the end but I'm sure it is something I could work into the plot.

So basically while I plan on coming up with a lot of original content and modifying any pre-existing content that I use I could use some help coming up with existing sources to pull on for this endeavor. I know there are those more knowledgeable than I with existing scenarios, modules and APs. Could anyone offer some help, please?

Well between Precise Strike (both the Animal Companion and character get this on all attacks) and Accomplished Sneak Attacker you don't need a lot of levels in Rogue to keep up with your sneak attack damage. So you could easily do this kind of build with only 3 levels or Rogue. Every level after that only drops 1 level from your Animal Companion which isn't a huge loss for a couple of levels.

Also, Cavalier doesn't grant their teamwork feats to their Animal Companion. Well, outside of Tactician that is, which is a rounds per day 1/day ability. So for maybe one fight you could get permaflank/all sneak attacks off. That seems to be moving away from the OP's goal a bit. But I suppose if one values Animal Companion progression over permaflank/always sneak attacking then that is another option.

I posted this elsewhere on these boards but didn't get any bites. Maybe this is a more suitable place.

I plan on running a home game where the PCs will all be members of the Pathfinder Society. This will not be an actual PFS game, but I would like to draw heavily upon the vast amount of content available from PFS scenarios and rich story that has been developed. The slight twist here is that the PCs will be involved in forming their own lodge. In fact, I was considering having them form their own faction. This will be based in Golarion but will involve some obvious divergences from the plot and story line that has already been developed. Mostly these divergences will revolve around their lodge (faction?), adventures and changes that they accomplish via those adventures.

I would like to find some preconstructed material that would be good to use for this concept. I have played a fair amount of PFS but very few adventure paths (mostly only Emerald Spire). I would like to call on the help of those more familiar than me to help string together some scenarios, modules and maybe adventure paths to help build a campaign around. I thought using some of the scenarios involving the Shadow Lodge and adjusting them would be a good place to start. I could either adjust them so that the Shadow Lodge is investigating their lodge or replace all references of the Shadow Lodge with their lodge.

I have also like the idea of including scenarios that involve the Aspis Consortium heavily as I plan on having some recurring Aspis NPCs. In fact, I have already started building some of them.

Other than that I'm not sure where to start. What would really be helpful is a list of related PFS scenarios. I find that longer story arcs are more easily adaptable to this kind of endeavor. Perhaps my google-fu is failing and I haven't found the correct search terms. But if such a list exists of multi-part scenarios that could be a good launching point for me.

I'd love to give more information on my campaign premise but it is still very much in the concept stage. I plan on taking input heavily from my players about what they would like to see from the campaign (within the confines of the concept), where they would like to adventure, etc. That may play a part on my selection for inspirational adventures. But I'd be happy to answer any questions about this that people may have.

Also I am not opposed to 3rd party content as long as it is easily adaptable to Golarion and the concept I have put forth.

Step 1: Play any small race. Take Combat Expertise as your first level feat. If you don't want to sink a 13 into Int then take Dirty Fighting instead.

Step 2: Take 3 levels of Hunter. For your Precise Companion class feature choose Outflank. For your 3rd level feat take Pack Flanking. Hunter tactics shares your teamwork feats with your Animal Companion. So now both you and your mounted (always considered adjacent) Animal Companion are always flanking and always get +4 to hit (outside of things that can't be flanked liked Minotaurs and Barbarians, of course).

Step 3: Start taking your Rogue levels. Enjoy the sneak attacks every round. If you start adjacent to an enemy then you can full attack sneak attack.

Bonus steps!: Take a mount with pounce. It uses it's movement and gets a full flanking attack at +4 to hit. Don't forget the higher ground bonus for attacking targets smaller than your mount. Charging bonuses (and penalties) apply to both you and your mount. Netting a +7 to hit before BAB, Ability score bonuses, Enhancement, etc will be a nice way to ensure you hit (especially because you are mixing two 3/4 BAB classes).

The Teamwork feats really write themself on this build. Precise Strike to keep up with precision damage. Paired Opportunist and Broken Wing Gambit to generate extra attacks for you and your mount.

Boon Companion helps keep up your Animal Companion levels while you are sinking some levels in to Rogue. Accomplished Sneak Attacker helps keep up your sneak attack damage while taking levels in Hunter.

Intercept Blow allows your character to take a feat so your Animal Companion can defend you similarly to how your character can try to protect your mount with Mounted Combat. I recommend both. Flanking bonuses apply to Intercept Blow as it is an attack roll.

For the mount I would recommend Toughness, Power Attack and Combat Reflexes. Don't get armor proficiencies, it is a trap. Just get mithril chain shirt barding and eat the -0 ACP to attacks. Get it a magic saddle. There are several that give the rider a competence bonus on ride checks. That works good with your Mounted Combat feat. Ask your GM if you can have a masterwork military saddle that works like a masterwork artisan tool and grants a +2 to all ride checks rather than just to stay in the saddle. Your goal is to get to being able to consistently make DC20 ride checks to "Control mount in battle". With 3 ranks, +3 trained bonus, +2 Dex, +2 circumstance that gets you +10 by 3rd level. Talk with your GM about what your animal is likely to do if you do not directly control it in battle. Most GMs are fine with it doing what comes natural to a creature of it's kind which should work for you under most circumstances.

You get a +4 circumstance bonus for using Handle Animal on your Animal Companion. This is great for training purposes. Do not forget to invest in the Skirmisher Ranger tricks for your companion! These are great. Also, the Blackthorn Rancher trait gives your Animal Companion 3 extra HP.

Make sure you can take your mount everywhere and that it can move in any environment. Narrow Frame feat helps for the mount. But also grabbing scrolls or even a wand of Carry Companion could be a good idea. Spells that grant other forms of movement you can cast on your Animal Companion via share spells. Monkey Fish is a great early entry option, Touch of the Sea is situationally better. Air Step can help avoid some hazards. Fly is a class skill for Animal Companions. Invest in it and make sure it takes the Air Walk trick. ...also take the Air Walk spell.

I plan on running a home game where the PCs will all be members of the Pathfinder Society. This will not be an actual PFS game, but I would like to draw heavily upon the vast amount of content available from PFS scenarios and rich story that has been developed. The slight twist here is that the PCs will be involved in forming their own lodge. In fact, I was considering having them form their own faction. This will be based in Golarion but will involve some obvious divergences from the plot and story line that has already been developed. Mostly these divergences will revolve around their lodge (faction?), adventures and changes that they accomplish via those adventures.

I would like to find some preconstructed material that would be good to use for this concept. I have played a fair amount of PFS but very few adventure paths (mostly only Emerald Spire). I would like to call on the help of those more familiar than me to help string together some scenarios, modules and maybe adventure paths to help build a campaign around. I thought using some of the scenarios involving the Shadow Lodge and adjusting them would be a good place to start. I could either adjust them so that the Shadow Lodge is investigating their lodge or replace all references of the Shadow Lodge with their lodge.

I have also like the idea of including scenarios that involve the Aspis Consortium heavily as I plan on having some recurring Aspis NPCs. In fact, I have already started building some of them.

Other than that I'm not sure where to start. What would really be helpful is a list of related PFS scenarios. I find that longer story arcs are more easily adaptable to this kind of endeavor. Perhaps my google-fu is failing and I haven't found the correct search terms. But if such a list exists of multi-part scenarios that could be a good launching point for me.

I'd love to give more information on my campaign premise but it is still very much in the concept stage. I plan on taking input heavily from my players about what they would like to see from the campaign (within the confines of the concept), where they would like to adventure, etc. That may play a part on my selection for inspirational adventures. But I'd be happy to answer any questions about this that people may have.

Also I am not opposed to 3rd party content as long as it is easily adaptable to Golarion and the concept I have put forth.

On the topic of mapping outside of printed material I have recently found some Steam software that has been really helpful: Dungeon Painter Studio. Hopefully I'm not breaking rules as this isn't really an advertisement (I don't work for the company or anything). It is great software and does exactly what I need it to do. It is considered early access software right now so it is pretty cheap but is a full product as far as I can tell.

I agree with TwilightKnight. Anecdotal evidence aside my statement was that I doubted that there was profit in it, not whether they exist or if they are purchased. That takes overcoming overhead and actually having a profit margin. If empirical evidence exists I would be interested in it. Perhaps I am wrong.

I fully understand that profit isn't the only reason to do something. In fact I fully support doing things just for the enjoyment of yourself and others. If there is enough support of these products on VTTs then it helps the product themselves profit too and that is good for gamers in general.

Regarding prep time for adventures ... well, I just can't see it taking longer than physical prep. It might have to do that I work in IT and am a PC gamer as well so spend much of my time at a keyboard. Doing anything on a PC is just second nature to me. But even without that with mapping alone it saves so much time on a VTT. Time into setup can be said for both mediums. I've sat at some tables with pretty intricate setups face to face. I can setup a game quickly and easily enough in roll20 that it just isn't worth it to me to buy it even if it sold for a couple of dollars. It also helps to practice for "home" (we are still playing via roll20 for home games) games.

With how easy it is to setup a roll20 table for play of a scenario I do not think there would be any profit in buying it from companies who have done it for you. In my experience it is easier to setup for a VTT than it is for a face to face game. Maps are often easy to copy/paste into VTT software. Sometimes there is a small challenge with getting the grid to lineup but after having done it a few times it is easy. Having everything else at my fingertips is easier than having to juggle books and electronics for reference at a live table.

I'm not saying that VTT play is superior to face to face play in its entirety but aspects of it definitely are.

Ok, so they aren't all sanctioned? Thats what I thought. Was trying to figure out how I missed that happening.

Sounds like fun. I'd be down for that.

Are they? I never see them getting ran.

Jared: I think you had some really good ideas about other things that could be allowed. Honestly, I'd love it if they were made playable in PFS1. But if they weren't being allowed in the type of alternate community I'm referring to would be interesting as well. It would probably make it more appealing to the masses as well.

Honestly, it seems like a minor adjustment on Paizo's end if they sanctioned them. I'm sure that idea has been talked about by people on the forums here if not Paizo staff themselves.

It wasn't really what I had in mind but it is a good idea. Again, not sure if I'm the best person for the job but I'd be willing to chip in some of my free time toward the endeavor if help is needed.

I think it is telling as well. It would take more than a single person. It would take a community of people. Perhaps a community that already exists. As far as the list you gave I can definitely see working within those lines. In fact, that was pretty much what I had expected. Thank you again for your information, Kevin. I appreciate it greatly.

Sasha: While all of the things are technically true I can tell you that with limited replays that it is in decline. People are looking for other outlets to play PF1 and ways to play PFS1. I have stated this upthread already.

Nefreet: Ok, good. We agree. We both think that Paizo will not take advantage of this opportunity.

As far as squandering an opportunity goes the opportunity as stated would be to support a community. Not monetary support. I'm not slighting Paizo for being in it for the money, they have the mouths of their employee's families to feed. I get it. But there exist people who want to support their community even without money.

If you find enough interest, can prove that interest to Paizo, and they support you, cool.

Again, I am not looking to do this myself. As I stated in my original thread and several times since, I was just wondering if it was possible without legal issues or running afoul of Paizo policy. It was just an idea I had. It sounds like I am far from the first to have such an idea.

Nefreet: You were referencing the first fate in my post directly before yours? I had said in that post that while I definitely see an opportunity for Paizo here that I thought that they would not take advantage of it. So I guess we agree?

And I don't know as there would be profit in this unless products are continued to be made and bought. Which I'm doubting Paizo is interested. That is why I'm thinking the second fate I listed being more likely.

If I wasn't clear in my original post allow me to clarify: I am not interested in doing this myself. I was just interested if it were possible. You are entirely correct that I lack the legal expertise to navigate this myself. Someone else more skilled in many aspects of leading such a community and endeavor is needed. I thank you all for your input.

Well I think we are all on the same page with the ability for this to work.

I do disagree with Nefreet about the lack of interest ("support" I'm assuming meant interest here?) during the pandemic. In fact, I think if anything that it has gained interest due to the captive audience situation. Several people (myself included) currently have little to no social contact outside of online gaming. Of course without either of us having access to hard numbers this is all just personal opinion based on anecdotal experience. It is entirely possible that our experience on this topic differs and even if hard numbers did exist they would only be based on whatever audience was sampled. In the end it doesn't matter what you or I think.

If some community wants to create a Definitely Not PFS1, track replays in whatever way they see fit and hand out Definitely Not Chronicle Sheets ... they can. If they think it is worth their time and effort it sounds like it is doable so long as no money is changing hands. Unless I missed something?

I don't mean to come across as critical or combative here. I was just looking for an answer to if it could be done legally and without violating some sort of policy of Paizo's or something.

I wanted to make this a separate post as I think it is a separate topic. I do agree with what others have shared here and in other threads. I don't post as much as I used to but I still come and read some threads. I kinda wish there was a separate forum for PFS1 than PFS2. I understand some reasons why Paizo would want them in the same forum, though. But if you just look through the list of PFS1 related posts there are a number of people asking questions like "What kind of character would you have liked to play in PFS1 and never got to?" and "What scenario would you like to replay the most but can't for credit?

There are people looking for PFS1 games to play in via any method possible (roll20 or other VTT options, online games, cons, etc.) If you go to other online communities people are talking about the same things discussed here. Unfortunately those communities are devolving into listing evergreen scenarios repeatedly due to the limited replays. Some of them are having more non-PFS games, discussing options like I presented, talking about issues with the replay tracking issues and generally just looking for some way to continue playing the game they love with the community of people they enjoy.

I think that there is definitely an opportunity for Paizo here. From what I have seen I think it is unfortunately an opportunity that they will squander. The way I see it if the community wants to continue to play in a PFS-like environment their options moving forward are limited. It will inevitable meet one of only a few fates.

1. Paizo will provide a way to support their community and allow for some option for these players to continue.

2. Some other community will step forward to fill the void and allow for an alternative organized play method to PFS1.

3. Sadness for all.

Personally I do not care which method is chosen. Except 3. I want to avoid 3 at all costs. Option 1 I don't see as likely. It would be nice as it would involve the least effort to create a tracking system, etc. Option 2, well... it seems as I'm not the first to ask about it that there is at least some interest in it. I'm guessing if the option existed that there would be a LOT of interest in it. From what I have seen discussed here and elsewhere and from what I know of friends and others I have played with they are looking for some option (any option!) to continue.

So judging from what was posted here and in the previous thread there is no legal issue with what I proposed? It wouldn't run afoul of some Paizo rule or policy?

I understand it couldn't be named Pathfinder Society but Nefreet indicated that "Chronicles" are IP implying that they could not be used. I couldn't find anything to indicate that. Is that true?

I guess for me it breaks down to:

1. You can play PFS scenarios, modules, etc as part of a home game and not report them as a PFS.

2. You can do the same and report them as PFS.

3. You couldn't do it as a home game and report them being played on a specific character to a different community.... why?

Again, I'm not trying to be combative. Perhaps there is an actual legal reason, policy, etc. I'm just looking for an answer.

Also, thank you Kevin for posting. I appreciate it personally. I also agree with what you say about if someone (more likely an existing community) were to pickup the torch and run with it they would need to have the respect of the community to do so. I have some ideas about who that could be but no idea if they would be interested. But the first step is knowing if it would even be possible.

Not really sure where to share this. Some of this is just sorta thinking out loud. No offense is intended and hopefully this isn't breaking any sort of rule, policy, etc. Its just questions of curiosity.

I was thinking about how PFS1 is declining. I know there are still a lot of people who want to play but I'm betting a lot of it has to do with limited replays. I get it, part of that is by design for Paizo trying to push people to get onboard with PFS2. And that is great for those who enjoy it. But for those who would still like to flesh out some builds for PFS1 and never got to their options for doing so are limited.

But what if they weren't? What if replays were less limited? I know that there is no way to change the rules for PFS1. But theoretically speaking is there anything stopping a community from building an alternative organized play environment for playing Pathfinder 1? The rules could be nearly identical to current PFS1 rules but with replays made more open (but not unlimited).

Would this be ... legal? Does it go against any policy or anything? If a community wanted to create a system and environment to carry out a plan like this is it possible without running afoul of Paizo? Are scenarios, chronicles, boons, etc. legally off limits for such a concept?

Is it blasphemy to bring this up? Perhaps some kinda taboo?

And before anyone brings it up, I personally lack the time, motivation, skill and ability to accomplish anything like this myself. Consider me more of an idea man on this. If such a project were possible, legal and didn't cause any other sort of problem I would support it though. I'm guessing I wouldn't be alone. Mostly this just stems from wanting to play more PFS1 but being limited by replays.

Oh, hell. You are correct. Sorry.

Not really sure where to share this. Some of this is just sorta thinking out loud. No offense is intended and hopefully this isn't breaking any sort of rule, policy, etc. Its just questions of curiosity.

I was thinking about how PFS1 is declining. I know there are still a lot of people who want to play but I'm betting a lot of it has to do with limited replays. I get it, part of that is by design for Paizo trying to push people to get onboard with PFS2. And that is great for those who enjoy it. But for those who would still like to flesh out some builds for PFS1 and never got to their options for doing so are limited.

But what if they weren't? What if replays were less limited? I know that there is no way to change the rules for PFS1. But theoretically speaking is there anything stopping a community from building an alternative organized play environment for playing Pathfinder 1? The rules could be nearly identical to current PFS1 rules but with replays made more open (but not unlimited).

Would this be ... legal? Does it go against any policy or anything? If a community wanted to create a system and environment to carry out a plan like this is it possible without running afoul of Paizo? Are scenarios, chronicles, boons, etc. legally off limits for such a concept?

Is it blasphemy to bring this up? Perhaps some kinda taboo?

And before anyone brings it up, I personally lack the time, motivation, skill and ability to accomplish anything like this myself. Consider me more of an idea man on this. If such a project were possible, legal and didn't cause any other sort of problem I would support it though. I'm guessing I wouldn't be alone. Mostly this just stems from wanting to play more PFS1 but being limited by replays.

Bump.

Anyone have any information on this?

Looking forward to Gencon. Hopefully see some of you there. In fact, I'm planning on buying a present for someone I've only met once at Gencon a couple years back in the hopes I see them again. No spoilers on what it is! :D

Ah, thank you for that too! :D

Rope trick. Make sure you bring a bag full of your 7 best friend rats so no one else can get in. They can't get past the fat rat butts. But if just one rat leaves the Terrasque can lavish in all of the space freed up. Best. Spell. Evar.

Portable holes and other extra dimensional storage systems make for easier teleportation of large groups or bodies of dead companions you intend to raise later.

That being said, I find Breath of Life to be particularly effective in such situations as well.

Additional resources still has a note saying:
"Several options in this book are being withheld to appear on Chronicle sheets."

Is that still the plan? With PFS likely soon becoming a closed system I'm wondering if there are any plans to legalize content from that book outside of Chronicle sheets. Also, perhaps I'm unaware, but has that plan come to fruition? Have options from that book made it to Chronicle sheets?

I tried to find another example of this happening with content from another book but to date Paths of the Righteous is the only one to include such wording in the additional resources that I could find any information on.

Sounds good, thanx guys. :)

Wei Ji the Learner: Actually familiar with those two. They don't work for ... reasons. ;)

Thanx, Jeff.

Ferious Thune: Probably wont work if I want to enter Living Monolith before 7. :(

Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide p. 19 wrote:

All roleplaying requirements for prestige classes, such as particular ceremonies or killing a devil, are waived in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild. Prestige class options and adjustments are found at paizo.com/pathfindersociety/rpg/additional.

I said in my original post:

I have a character that I am planning on going into Living Monolith soon and I would like to complete his Special requirement to get into Living Monolith of "Must have a handcrafted stone scarab worth at least 1,000 gp created and bound to his forehead in a sacred ritual with at least one sphinx or living monolith present." I have already obtained an emerald to fill the role of the stone scarab and affixed it to the front of his skull with sovereign glue. He is of the Scarab Sage (Jewel Sage) faction so I felt it was more thematic. Now I just need to find a scenario that has a sphinx in a potentially friendly encounter in it. I'm not looking for any spoilers (aside from the sphinx bit, I suppose). I know I don't have to complete the special requirement but for this character I would really like to.

A little about the character:
Ob'Seth is a Pahmet dwarf who had served as a tomb guardian in the great pharoah Osezis II's tomb in Osirian. He sought to serve the Jewel Sages in a more direct way and joined the Pathfinder Society. He has met Amenopheus a couple of times and completed missions with him and even worked with him once.

He is a Monk (Sohei)2 / Fighter (Phalanx Soldier) 3 and will be taking one more level of Fighter before diving headlong into Living Monolith and staying there throughout the rest of his career. He wields an Adamantine Lucerne hammer one handed and a Living Steel Heavy Shield in his other. He wears a set of enchanted Obsidian Stone Plate and has a Boulder Helmet. Next level he will be taking the Stalwart feat which he already meets the requirements for. He also has Crane Style. He typically serves the role of a tank and keeps the enemy's attention by threatening a wide area and smacking them squarely in the face with his massive hammer.

He embodies the element of earth in more ways than most dwarves to the extent of his flesh even resembling sandstone. Unlike many dwarves he is less boisterous and more stoic (think Teal'c of Stargate fame).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a scenario that I could have him ran through that has such a potentially friendly encounter with a Sphinx that might be fitting for such a fellow?

LOL!

You know, I didn't think of the Possessed Hand feats for this build. I have that all setup for another build, though.

When I come up with character concepts it is typically in a fashion that the character themselves know what they are training towards and has a fairly good concept of what abilities they will attain. Dragon Disciple characters are a slight exception as I'm sure they know that their dragon bloodline is becoming more pronounced but might not know the extent to which it will manifest. Along those lines I was thinking what if the concept for the character was that they intended to further themselves as a successful adventurer but didn't know or even understand what the changes were that were happening to them. I don't just mean they don't know what feats or spells they are gaining access to. I mean overt things, obvious things... things that people can easily see by simply looking at them.

My first thoughts go towards Alchemist. They have discoveries that change their body in instantly apparent, permanent, visible ways. I'm thinking of discoveries like Chameleon, Deadly Excretions, preserve organs, Mummification, Vestigial arm, Parasitic Twin, Phantom Limb, Tumor Familiar, Tentacle and Wings. Instead of the Alchemist actively studying these discoveries and purposefully applying them they could just... happen. He wakes up one day and "Ope... guess there is a tentacle coming out of my side there. That is weird, never noticed that lump on my shoulder wink at me before. Hm... shoulder blades are a little itchy, must be those feathers that are sprouting out of my back now. Wait... what the hell?!"

I like the idea of the character growing claws from his otherwise normal hands. Just because... "I dunno, I guess I just have claws now for some reason. Maybe something I ate? Must be my highly carnivorous diet did it. You know what? I'm just going to not worry about it. This is fine. I'm sure no one will notice."

Claws can be obtained several ways but I like Ranger or Shifter most. Shifter grants some fun options for this kind of concept too. I think I would like these things not activating consciously for the character but operating as a sort of defense mechanism or adaptation thing. Like if the character is having trouble seeing at night, "Oh... ok. I guess I can see in darkness with no problem now? That is handy. I feel kinda like a bat. Wonder if I can... *trips a pit trap, sprouts wings and starts flapping around* ... yep. I guess I'm sort of a bat now. Huh... guess my voice is coming out as squeeks to them now?"

The Wolverine aspect really interests me here as there are some interesting Rage Powers that could add to this. Animal Fury is one of them along with it's follow up Rage Powers. Lesser Fiend Totem is another to gain a gore attack.

Some other things that could go in this toolbox:
Hunter: I like the idea of an animal companionless Hunter so that you can use your Animal Focus on yourself. The ones that add to skills are competence bonuses so they do not stack with those granted by Shifter and are often the same exact bonus anyway. But you can have two different ones active at a time. For this I particularly like the Feral Hunter. Another option would be to use Primal Companion hunter and use Evolutions on yourself instead of Animal Foci.

Ranger: If I were to go with Wild Hunter Ranger I could get Claws via Combat Style and Animal Focus by second level for a couple of minutes per day. Less appealing would be the Shapeshifter which would give Claws via the forced Combat Style and at 3rd level a few options for abilities that stack with most things as they are untyped (with Bear being the notable exception as an enhancement bonus to Str). Also, these are polymorph affects which don't stack with anything the Shifter does.

Anyone have anything else I could add to the toolbox here? Things that alter the character permanently are preferable but also some things that give temporary buffs like that of the Hunter and Shifter are also interesting. I'd love a way to get Evolutions to the character permanently but I do not know of a way to do so besides Synthesist and that isn't adding it to the character, it is wearing it's Eidolon.

What else could help with this concept? Items and equipment? Spells? Feats? Races? Would being a Human with Racial Heritage open up any avenues for fun mutations?

Rhaleroad: Deinonychus gets claw and talon attacks at the same time.

If I were depending on logic I would say a Deinonychus' claws get the shifter claws damage bonus and it's talons do not. But it is specifically opposite from that for some reason.

merpius: Yes. That is what RAW says. But what it doesn't say, as Derklord points out is, "When using polymorph effects that list granted natural weapons, you do not gain the base creature's natural weapons." It doesn't say that you ignore the rules for polymorph spells and spell like abilities. In fact, it says that you use them. It tells you what you ignore from them.

The FAQ doesn't really clear this up. The question states something that is untrue in the first sentence. Perhaps when the errata is printed in the rules it will clear this up. But the RAW combined with the FAQ still leaves things unclear. ... as evidenced by the varying opinions in this thread alone if nothing else.

blahpers: I figured they were referring to the form abilities listed in the Beast Shape spell after it says, "If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability:"

I mean, truly there is no knowing completely as there is nothing in Beast Shape called "form abilities" but that is the text that I think closes encompasses it.

tchrman35: Already quoted that in my original post. That is the confusing part. Especially if you take in what the FAQ I linked in my last post says.

I found this FAQ entry but it still seems a bit unclear.

First of all the assumption that the question starts with isn't supported within the verbiage of the class. It says, "The shifter major forms are supposed to tell me everything I need aside from the size adjustments..." but that isn't said anywhere in the Shifter class that I can find. It says what I quoted above. It then goes on to say, "...but a few things seem to be missing, such as the owl’s fly speed and some of the natural attacks." which is what I am pointing out.

So then it goes on to say, "You still only get the listed abilities plus size-dependent effects (size bonuses and penalties and any natural armor). If the creature has no listed base land speed, use 30 feet as the base land speed. Here are the missing abilities:"

It says "You still..." as if this has been established somewhere in the rules for Shifter. It isn't. The rules for the class actually say the opposite.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be combative but things seem not just confusing but contradictory.

Sorry, blahpers, I appreciate the help. But I'm asking for a rules based answer here. Is there developer input that supports your opinion? I'm not saying it is wrong, I'm just looking for clarity. If that is how it works what are you basing that on?

Example:
Falcon form says, "Your shape changes to that of a Small falcon. While in this form, you gain a bite attack (1d4 damage), two claw attacks (1d3 damage), a fly speed of 60 feet (good), low-light vision, and a +4 racial bonus on vision-based Perception checks. At 8th level, you gain darkvision with a range of 120 feet, and your racial bonus on Perception checks increases to +6. At 15th level, you gain blindsense with a range of 60 feet and your fly speed increases to 90 feet (perfect)."

Wild Shape says:
"At 4th level, a shifter gains the ability to turn herself into the major form of one of her aspects and back again. This ability functions as beast shape II, except as noted here. The shifter can turn into the major form of only one of her aspects at a time. Using wild shape to change to a major form or back is a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. Often a particular aspect’s major form grants abilities beyond the normal effect of beast shape II. Each major form details the abilities the shifter gains with that major form and at what level; she gains these instead of the form abilities from beast shape II, but she still gains beast shape II abilities that are size dependent."

There is a bit there about form abilities but that isn't applicable to my question. That deals with abilities that come after the bit that says, "If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability:..." It does not deal with natural attacks.

Beast Shape is a Polymorph spell. Polymorph subschool says, "In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks."

Falcon is based off Hawk. Hawk says, "Melee 2 talons +5 (1d4–2)"

Talons are very clearly different than claws. Deinonychus form really confuses this as it switches which ones get the Shifter's Claws bonus but otherwise this is fairly consistent in the rules. I actually feel that is why it needs to specify in the Deinonychus which gets the bonus as it is different than it would be in any other part of the game. However... this leaves it pretty unclear about the Falcon form. Do they get a Bite, 2 Claws and 2 Talons?

You aren't interested in Pathfinder? And you are posting in the PFS forum?...

I would like to echo others in their surprise and dissatisfaction of the complete lack of PFS games for an entire slot. My son and I are not interested in Starfinder and will have nothing else to do during this time that Paizo is offering. We may end up going to WotC's area to play some M:TG.

What is surprising to me is that there are likely several in the same position and Paizo isn't likely to fill their room with Starfinder only during that slot. So, what? They are just going to turn a blind eye to their loyal PFS following for an entire slot? Tell them that there is nothing for them to do here unless they want to try Starfinder? If so I can understand the "shove down our throats" comment above.

Is it too late to possibly open up some PFS events during that slot? Several of the scenarios we wanted to play are already full the day after registration was opened. It seems like a good time to open up a few more of those tables. Hell, I would even offer to run one if needed.

I'm just happy that I bought the digital version only. That way after all of the changes and fixes are complete I will have it all available written in the form Paizo wants it to be.

Unfortunate for those who own a hard copy of the book. Their print doesn't change when errata complete.

Bump.

...I can't be the only one affected by this and confused by the new rulings.

Also there is the logic thing. I know it is sometimes controversial to bring logic into a Pathfinder game. I think I can't put it better than BNW did in the other thread:

Thomas Hutchins wrote:

Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:

If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

... they are either making this incredibly weird or explaining it very poorly.

Full suit of plate armor on a weasel: no problem

Enchant it... ERKS! It won't go on....

???

So with the recent Blog and FAQ change I am still a bit confused on how armor works for Familiars despite some other threads with similar questions. Prior to this I know that Familiars and Animal Companions alike had access to neck slots and armor (barding) slots. But this seems to have been taken away from Familiars while Animal Companions get to keep it?

I'm confused about three things on this:
1. What about non-magical armor? Can a Familiar still wear a Mithral Chain Shirt?

2. Why was this change made specific to Familiars? If someone were to have asked prior to this change which is more powerful to allow armor on Familiars or Animal Companions I think we all would have said Animal Companions. Personally, I didn't see a problem on either side of it. But with the change the Familiars get hit with the nerfbat and Animal Companions are left how they are? It seems like an odd choice from a balance perspective.

If it wasn't for balance reasons, was it for flavor reasons? Was it designed with Wizards using Mage Armor on their Familiars instead of getting them armor?

3. The specific circumstances I am concerned with are for a character that I have. He is an Eldritch Guardian Fighter with a Brownie Improved Familiar. Prior to the change rules were still a bit fuzzy on what he could use. Now the rules have changed but there are still some questions.

If I understand things correctly before he could have barding (armor was still a bit unclear) and a neck slot item. He could also use an Ioun Stone but my character would have to set it spinning for him. Now it appears he can wear non-magical armor (but not magical?) and lost the use of a neck slot and the rules are now silent on Ioun Stones or other slotless items. I'm guessing that my character isn't the only one affected by this change.

I imagine a lot of people had neck slot items for their Familiar. Less of them probably had armor as most Familiars are Wizard's Familiars or classes capable of casting Mage Armor. But what about my Fighter? Even though he shares feats with his Familiar (including armor proficiencies), is more martial than probably any other class with a Familiar, his Familiar can no longer wear magic armor? And if he had it previously it just... falls off? But he can wear normal armor with no issue? I understand that he could take the Extra Item Slot feat to allow him to use it but I already had planned on him taking that for the Belt slot which he will need (both the character and Familiar are archers).

I'm not left with a lot of options here, I think. Without being able to cast Mage Armor I could have him wear non-magical armor but can never enchant it. With Familiars not having scaling AC and Dex like Animal Companions do and only gaining half the benefit to AC from armor from Tiny size that isn't going to keep his AC relevant. Lack of a neck slot prevents getting his natural armor higher. It isn't like his AC was stellar to begin with.

...I guess I just feel like the loss of armor for Familiars was an unnecessary nerf. I'm sure it has something to do with feeling like it hit my character harder than most. I don't suppose leadership would consider giving them the armor slot back?

Yeah. I have a "human" "rogue". It is actually a Half-Orc (with most of the more human like racial traits) Barbarian with a level of Trapper Ranger. She fills the role of a Rogue. She has a starting Int of 18 and a ton of skills. She has Trapfinding but often prefers to use her "B.L.P" (what her Adamantine Greatsword has carved into it... Big Lock Pick) with Trap Wrecker. If characters ask her what she is she tells them that she is a "Trapscout. But I'm pretty competant in a fight too!" She has the Sunder line of feats and the Spell Sunder line of Rage Powers.

However, perception is reality. She might get a bit of side eye from carrying around her B.L.P. but she otherwise looks like a Rogue. She has a Mithral Agile Breastplate, Engineer's Workgloves, Lens of Detection, Boots of Striding and Springing, Circlet of Persuasion and soon an Ebon Wayfinder. She has a bunch of mundane skill items and has the skill points to backup being a "rogue".

I actually created the character as a sort of dare formed from one of the Rogue hate threads prior to URogue coming out. Basically someone said that pretty much anything could Rogue better than Rogue can. I took it as a challenge and tried to pick the most unlikely of classes to compete with a Rogue at doing Rogue things. So far it has worked fairly well. I'm fairly certain she can outfight a Rogue and keeps up fairly well with her skills.

My point here is, though, that she is a Barbarian in Rogue's clothing. The name of the class means nothing. Classes are just a gathering of tools in a tool box. You get out of them what you want to accomplish the concept you are trying to flesh out. That isn't to say throw fluff to the curb. I enjoy role playing my character. I just don't like being bound by the iconic description of the archetype. My character definitely doesn't know that she is a "Barbarian". Why should she have to conform to typical Barbarian things?

Same thing goes here. Why should a "Halfling Knight" have to take levels in something like Cavalier? Just to assuage the iconic concept? If what you want to do you can get from other classes better then I say go for it. "Knight" is just a concept. Anything can be a "Knight". A Wizard could be a "Knight" (don't challenge me on this... I might have to accept it and build a character around it. ;) ). A Hunter could certainly be a "Knight".