Vedavrex Misraria

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* Pathfinder Society GM. 3,114 posts. No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 11 Organized Play characters.

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Additional resources still has a note saying:
"Several options in this book are being withheld to appear on Chronicle sheets."

Is that still the plan? With PFS likely soon becoming a closed system I'm wondering if there are any plans to legalize content from that book outside of Chronicle sheets. Also, perhaps I'm unaware, but has that plan come to fruition? Have options from that book made it to Chronicle sheets?

I tried to find another example of this happening with content from another book but to date Paths of the Righteous is the only one to include such wording in the additional resources that I could find any information on.


I have a character that I am planning on going into Living Monolith soon and I would like to complete his Special requirement to get into Living Monolith of "Must have a handcrafted stone scarab worth at least 1,000 gp created and bound to his forehead in a sacred ritual with at least one sphinx or living monolith present." I have already obtained an emerald to fill the role of the stone scarab and affixed it to the front of his skull with sovereign glue. He is of the Scarab Sage (Jewel Sage) faction so I felt it was more thematic. Now I just need to find a scenario that has a sphinx in a potentially friendly encounter in it. I'm not looking for any spoilers (aside from the sphinx bit, I suppose). I know I don't have to complete the special requirement but for this character I would really like to.

A little about the character:
Ob'Seth is a Pahmet dwarf who had served as a tomb guardian in the great pharoah Osezis II's tomb in Osirian. He sought to serve the Jewel Sages in a more direct way and joined the Pathfinder Society. He has met Amenopheus a couple of times and completed missions with him and even worked with him once.

He is a Monk (Sohei)2 / Fighter (Phalanx Soldier) 3 and will be taking one more level of Fighter before diving headlong into Living Monolith and staying there throughout the rest of his career. He wields an Adamantine Lucerne hammer one handed and a Living Steel Heavy Shield in his other. He wears a set of enchanted Obsidian Stone Plate and has a Boulder Helmet. Next level he will be taking the Stalwart feat which he already meets the requirements for. He also has Crane Style. He typically serves the role of a tank and keeps the enemy's attention by threatening a wide area and smacking them squarely in the face with his massive hammer.

He embodies the element of earth in more ways than most dwarves to the extent of his flesh even resembling sandstone. Unlike many dwarves he is less boisterous and more stoic (think Teal'c of Stargate fame).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a scenario that I could have him ran through that has such a potentially friendly encounter with a Sphinx that might be fitting for such a fellow?

When I come up with character concepts it is typically in a fashion that the character themselves know what they are training towards and has a fairly good concept of what abilities they will attain. Dragon Disciple characters are a slight exception as I'm sure they know that their dragon bloodline is becoming more pronounced but might not know the extent to which it will manifest. Along those lines I was thinking what if the concept for the character was that they intended to further themselves as a successful adventurer but didn't know or even understand what the changes were that were happening to them. I don't just mean they don't know what feats or spells they are gaining access to. I mean overt things, obvious things... things that people can easily see by simply looking at them.

My first thoughts go towards Alchemist. They have discoveries that change their body in instantly apparent, permanent, visible ways. I'm thinking of discoveries like Chameleon, Deadly Excretions, preserve organs, Mummification, Vestigial arm, Parasitic Twin, Phantom Limb, Tumor Familiar, Tentacle and Wings. Instead of the Alchemist actively studying these discoveries and purposefully applying them they could just... happen. He wakes up one day and "Ope... guess there is a tentacle coming out of my side there. That is weird, never noticed that lump on my shoulder wink at me before. Hm... shoulder blades are a little itchy, must be those feathers that are sprouting out of my back now. Wait... what the hell?!"

I like the idea of the character growing claws from his otherwise normal hands. Just because... "I dunno, I guess I just have claws now for some reason. Maybe something I ate? Must be my highly carnivorous diet did it. You know what? I'm just going to not worry about it. This is fine. I'm sure no one will notice."

Claws can be obtained several ways but I like Ranger or Shifter most. Shifter grants some fun options for this kind of concept too. I think I would like these things not activating consciously for the character but operating as a sort of defense mechanism or adaptation thing. Like if the character is having trouble seeing at night, "Oh... ok. I guess I can see in darkness with no problem now? That is handy. I feel kinda like a bat. Wonder if I can... *trips a pit trap, sprouts wings and starts flapping around* ... yep. I guess I'm sort of a bat now. Huh... guess my voice is coming out as squeeks to them now?"

The Wolverine aspect really interests me here as there are some interesting Rage Powers that could add to this. Animal Fury is one of them along with it's follow up Rage Powers. Lesser Fiend Totem is another to gain a gore attack.

Some other things that could go in this toolbox:
Hunter: I like the idea of an animal companionless Hunter so that you can use your Animal Focus on yourself. The ones that add to skills are competence bonuses so they do not stack with those granted by Shifter and are often the same exact bonus anyway. But you can have two different ones active at a time. For this I particularly like the Feral Hunter. Another option would be to use Primal Companion hunter and use Evolutions on yourself instead of Animal Foci.

Ranger: If I were to go with Wild Hunter Ranger I could get Claws via Combat Style and Animal Focus by second level for a couple of minutes per day. Less appealing would be the Shapeshifter which would give Claws via the forced Combat Style and at 3rd level a few options for abilities that stack with most things as they are untyped (with Bear being the notable exception as an enhancement bonus to Str). Also, these are polymorph affects which don't stack with anything the Shifter does.

Anyone have anything else I could add to the toolbox here? Things that alter the character permanently are preferable but also some things that give temporary buffs like that of the Hunter and Shifter are also interesting. I'd love a way to get Evolutions to the character permanently but I do not know of a way to do so besides Synthesist and that isn't adding it to the character, it is wearing it's Eidolon.

What else could help with this concept? Items and equipment? Spells? Feats? Races? Would being a Human with Racial Heritage open up any avenues for fun mutations?

Falcon form says, "Your shape changes to that of a Small falcon. While in this form, you gain a bite attack (1d4 damage), two claw attacks (1d3 damage), a fly speed of 60 feet (good), low-light vision, and a +4 racial bonus on vision-based Perception checks. At 8th level, you gain darkvision with a range of 120 feet, and your racial bonus on Perception checks increases to +6. At 15th level, you gain blindsense with a range of 60 feet and your fly speed increases to 90 feet (perfect)."

Wild Shape says:
"At 4th level, a shifter gains the ability to turn herself into the major form of one of her aspects and back again. This ability functions as beast shape II, except as noted here. The shifter can turn into the major form of only one of her aspects at a time. Using wild shape to change to a major form or back is a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. Often a particular aspect’s major form grants abilities beyond the normal effect of beast shape II. Each major form details the abilities the shifter gains with that major form and at what level; she gains these instead of the form abilities from beast shape II, but she still gains beast shape II abilities that are size dependent."

There is a bit there about form abilities but that isn't applicable to my question. That deals with abilities that come after the bit that says, "If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability:..." It does not deal with natural attacks.

Beast Shape is a Polymorph spell. Polymorph subschool says, "In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks."

Falcon is based off Hawk. Hawk says, "Melee 2 talons +5 (1d4–2)"

Talons are very clearly different than claws. Deinonychus form really confuses this as it switches which ones get the Shifter's Claws bonus but otherwise this is fairly consistent in the rules. I actually feel that is why it needs to specify in the Deinonychus which gets the bonus as it is different than it would be in any other part of the game. However... this leaves it pretty unclear about the Falcon form. Do they get a Bite, 2 Claws and 2 Talons?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So with the recent Blog and FAQ change I am still a bit confused on how armor works for Familiars despite some other threads with similar questions. Prior to this I know that Familiars and Animal Companions alike had access to neck slots and armor (barding) slots. But this seems to have been taken away from Familiars while Animal Companions get to keep it?

I'm confused about three things on this:
1. What about non-magical armor? Can a Familiar still wear a Mithral Chain Shirt?

2. Why was this change made specific to Familiars? If someone were to have asked prior to this change which is more powerful to allow armor on Familiars or Animal Companions I think we all would have said Animal Companions. Personally, I didn't see a problem on either side of it. But with the change the Familiars get hit with the nerfbat and Animal Companions are left how they are? It seems like an odd choice from a balance perspective.

If it wasn't for balance reasons, was it for flavor reasons? Was it designed with Wizards using Mage Armor on their Familiars instead of getting them armor?

3. The specific circumstances I am concerned with are for a character that I have. He is an Eldritch Guardian Fighter with a Brownie Improved Familiar. Prior to the change rules were still a bit fuzzy on what he could use. Now the rules have changed but there are still some questions.

If I understand things correctly before he could have barding (armor was still a bit unclear) and a neck slot item. He could also use an Ioun Stone but my character would have to set it spinning for him. Now it appears he can wear non-magical armor (but not magical?) and lost the use of a neck slot and the rules are now silent on Ioun Stones or other slotless items. I'm guessing that my character isn't the only one affected by this change.

I imagine a lot of people had neck slot items for their Familiar. Less of them probably had armor as most Familiars are Wizard's Familiars or classes capable of casting Mage Armor. But what about my Fighter? Even though he shares feats with his Familiar (including armor proficiencies), is more martial than probably any other class with a Familiar, his Familiar can no longer wear magic armor? And if he had it previously it just... falls off? But he can wear normal armor with no issue? I understand that he could take the Extra Item Slot feat to allow him to use it but I already had planned on him taking that for the Belt slot which he will need (both the character and Familiar are archers).

I'm not left with a lot of options here, I think. Without being able to cast Mage Armor I could have him wear non-magical armor but can never enchant it. With Familiars not having scaling AC and Dex like Animal Companions do and only gaining half the benefit to AC from armor from Tiny size that isn't going to keep his AC relevant. Lack of a neck slot prevents getting his natural armor higher. It isn't like his AC was stellar to begin with.

...I guess I just feel like the loss of armor for Familiars was an unnecessary nerf. I'm sure it has something to do with feeling like it hit my character harder than most. I don't suppose leadership would consider giving them the armor slot back?

6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

So... this issue had been buried when it was declared that Sylvan wasn't a valid choice to take with Eldritch Heritage. But now that it is again, could someone take Exotic Heritage, Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan) and Boon Companion to gain a full animal companion?

Lets say I were to take a level of Cleric with a neutral deity like Pharasma and chose to Channel Negative Energy. I also take the Versatile Channeler feat. Then I take another class that has a separate Channel Energy class feature like Life Oracle, Life Shaman, etc.

What happens when I go into Envoy of Balance and take the Spiritual Equilibrium class feature?

The envoy of balance’s class levels count as cleric levels for determining the effects of her channel energy ability.

Would it affect both pools of Channel Energy? Or only one? Would I have to choose which it affects?

So I have a concept and I'm kinda just toying with a few ideas. The parts I'm pretty certain on are:

1. URogue/Cleric of Count Ranalc. I would love to get Night subdomain and Trickery on a deity but there are no good options to do so. Count Ranalc is doable and while I can't get Trickery I can get Travel and that is a pretty damn good domain. The character isn't getting to level 8 Cleric so the 8th level abilities do not matter.

2. Gnome. Because of the above and just because I think it will make for a fun character I'd like to go Gnome. It also makes thematic sense having Count Ranalc and Gnomes both being from the First World.

3. Gray Warden. Well, if I am going URogue/Cleric I may as well make the best of it and advance spell casting and sneak attack.

Everything else is a bit up in the air right now. I have a few concepts in mind but am a bit disappointed in a few things. I'm fairly feat starved in the build and the only real bonus feat I get is from a URogue Talent.

So, the first concept I had was to put the Combat Reflexes that Gray Warden requires to good use. That means using a reach weapon. This could be good as it could help keep the squishy character safe from being too close to combat. The problem is that I'm pretty limited on weapon choices. I don't like the idea of using a Longspear for this character. It just doesn't fit the concept well for me. Whip seems like a good option but it isn't something that the classes get proficiency with so I'd have to pay a feat tax to use it. And to make it a passable weapon I'd also have to get Whip Mastery which requires Weapon Focus that can't be taken at first level without +1 BAB. That leaves the feats looking like this:

Build 1:

Enforcer (1st)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip (3rd)
Weapon Focus: Whip (Talent)
Whip Mastery (5th)

That is pretty terrible as it makes you not be able to do anything to enemies that have even +1 armor until level 5. Level 5 and after it is alright... I guess. Bleh.

The other idea was to just pay the Combat Reflexes feat tax and do other things with the build. Generally I like this idea more but the problem is that all the nice intimidate stuff that the build gets goes to waste in combat. And that is a damned shame. The concept goes something like this:

Build 2:
Considering Rogue as first level:
Toughness (1st)
Combat Reflexes (Talent)
Channel Smite (3rd) (along with a Phylactery of Negative Channeling ASAP)
Accomplished Sneak Attacker (5th)
Versatile Channeler (7th)
Extra Channel (9th)
Martial Dominance (11th)

If I went Cleric as my first level I could make it like this instead:
Channel Smite (1st)
Combat Reflexes (Talent)
Versatile Channeler (3rd)
Accomplished Sneak Attacker (5th)
Extra Channel (7th)
Martial Dominance (9th)

Martial Dominance is the only way I can find to get an attempt to Demoralize in with the action economy. Sure, I'd love to go with a Shatter Defenses/Cornugon Smash type build but there are problems with that. For that to work I would need to point buy for a 15 Str which gets lowered to 13 from racial modifiers. This hampers having a high Dex to offset the crapper BAB the build will have which is only made worse by having to take Power Attack penalties to hit every time I attack. And it is 5 feats with two feat trees that have a +1 BAB requirement.

What I really want is a way to demoralize as a swift action. I know the Omen Trait will allow me to do that 1/day. I think I've painted myself into a corner. The only other way I can come up with to get a swift action demoralize is to take a level of Mesmerist and take the Intimidating Glance feat. Someone talk me out of doing this, please. I don't want to take another 3/4 BAB class just to get this online.

Actually, regarding Mesmerist there are some good reasons to consider this. Tricks are nice. I wouldn't necessarily even have to take Intimidating Glance if I take the Fearsome Guise Trick. That would allow me to get a free demoralize check 1+Cha times per day. If I did get the Intimidating Glance then that would free up the Trick for Compel Alacrity which would allow me to shift 10ft 1/encounter 1+Cha/day. That could setup flanks to allow more frequent sneak attacks and works well with Sidestep. If nothing else Psychosomatic Surge gives some temporary hit points. Painful Stare gives a static +1 damage on all attacks I would make. Consummate Liar plays well into the build and Knacks and Spells certainly wouldn't hurt either. Basically the only thing I would lose is that BAB.

I guess I really don't know why I want to put Intimidate to use in combat...I just do. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get Shatter Defenses but just can't fit it in. Without it demoralizing is just a debuff. I mean I like what it lends for RP to the character. I also would enjoy getting a Cruel weapon which would pair off with it nicely. If I ever decide to fit in a 4th level of URogue then Debilitating Injury would bump up the debuff to -6. And yeah, I know that I could go with Thug or Rake but I do not want to give up Trapfinding. I know it isn't as valuable but take this as a concept over effectiveness decision.

Any other suggestions for this concept outside of "don't do it, do something else instead"? Any other ways to get an Intimidate in without disrupting action economy that I'm not aware of? Are there other ways to make a Gnome Gray Warden?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

So the relevant rules for this are in the PFS FAQ

It says:
What are the rules for upgrading weapons, armor, and wondrous items?

You may upgrade one weapon, armor, or wondrous item to another as long as the new item occupies the same slot, is made of the same material, has the same general shape, and has all of the abilities of the original item. For example, you can upgrade a +1 longsword into a +1 frost longsword or a cloak of resistance +1 into a cloak of resistance +2. You may also upgrade a magic weapon or armor into one of the named weapons or armors, such as upgrading a +1 banded mail into a banded mail of luck. As another example, you can upgrade a belt of incredible dexterity +2 into a belt of the weasel from Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Equipment , which grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity as well as other benefits.

To upgrade a magic item, pay the difference in price between the new item and the original item.

I have a few questions.

1. Can one upgrade a +1 Flaming Longsword into a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword?

My personal opinion:
This seems to meet every item of the checklist: same slot, made of the same material, same general shape, and has all of the abilities of the original item. I see no reason why not.

2. Can one upgrade a +1 Flame Burst Longsword into a Flame Tongue?

My personal opinion:
Again, it hits all points of the checklist. A Flame Tongue is just a slightly modified +1 Flaming Burst Longsword. It just has a 1/day power added on.

3. Can one upgrade Rhino Hide into Mammoth Hide?

My personal opinion:
Same slot? Check. Same material? ...well it depends on how granular you want to get. I'd rather not have to deal with another lame "expect table variation" answer on this one. It seems like it would be a fairly common question when dealing with materials whether it is this specific upgrade path or not. Are we looking for same material like "metal" or "leather or hide"? Or are we looking for something more specific like "steel", "mithril", "rhino hide" or "mammoth hide"? I can see it going either way and while I have a preference I wouldn't want rules based on it. I just want consistency.

4. Can one upgrade Chainmail (Mithral or otherwise) in to Celestial Armor?

Celestial Armor stats:

Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Weight 20 lbs.; Price 22,400 gp


This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.


Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good; Cost 11,350 gp

My personal opinion:
Same slot? Check. Made of the same material? Celestial Armor doesn't mention what it is made out of at all. If I were to guess at what it is made of I would have to guess Mithril due to it's weight and due to it being considered light armor. But that is just a guess. Suggesting that it is made of steel like regular Chainmail is and that the lightness is due to magical qualities is an equally valid guess. I think we can at least be fairly certain it is made of metal?... or can we? I mean... just a guess again but I doubt that Druids are able to wear it due to it's supposed metalness.

Moving along, it is the same general shape, and has all of the abilities of the original item. Well...kinda. It does everything that +3 Mithril Chainmail does except that it has a crazy high max Dex bonus. To me this is no different than saying that a Flame Tongue does everything that a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword does except that it also has a once per day ability. The Flame Tongue doesn't mention what it is made out of other than to say that it is a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword. Sorta like how Celestial Armor just says that it is +3 Chainmail. Heck, depending on how granular you want to get I could easily see the +1 Flaming Burst Longsword being made out of Adamantine before it is upgraded into a Flame Tongue. Since the entry on Flame Tongue doesn't mention what it is made out of other than being a +1 Flaming Burst Longsword I would think that Longsword could be made out of any metal.

5. Can one upgrade Eyes of the Eagle into Lens of Detection?

My personal opinion:

Same slot - check.

Same material - check, "crystal" vs "prism" seems close enough I think if we are allowing rhino hide to be the same as mammoth hide.

Same general shape - check, I think? I assume they are shaped about the same. There isn't a lot of text in the entries to tell. But the FAQ says "general" I think for a reason.

Has all of the abilities of the original item - check. ...mostly. Eyes of the Eagle have the added effect of if you remove one it stuns you for a round.

I'm fully on board with same material and same general shape. Material seems as close as you can get without going more specific than "general". Abilities seems close enough to me but the stun bit might be enough for some to think it would ruin it all.

The crux of the matter:
A. How granular is it intended that "same material" be? Is it intended to be like "metal" or more specific like "steel"? Are we to be as general as "leather/hide" or as specific as "rhino hide" or "mammoth hide"? Is "crystal" the same as "prism" in the above example or is it intended that we have to be so pedantic as to look for a specific material word?

B. How general is "general shape"? Are most eye slot items going to be the same "general shape"? Are lenses, goggles and monocles all about the same? I'm assuming eye patches and blindfolds are too different? With weapons I would think that they have to be the same type of weapon but could see an argument for weapon groups I guess.

For an upcoming home game I am thinking of making a Halfling Paladin that goes into Dragon Disciple. I do not have all of the details on the setting or campaign rules but I believe that it will be based in Golarion. We have been talking about running a system where things have to happen in game to unlock the use of non-core material. It seems like an interesting concept so I’m inclined to support this concept and play in it.

One of the facets of this campaign concept that I suggested was to allow 1 non-core item in the character based on character background. I like to write character backgrounds for each character that I play. The problem is that I do not know a ton of lore about Golarion and to be frank with the amount of content that is out there currently it can get a bit overwhelming. I was hoping for little direction on where to start reading for what lore would best fit my concept.

Let me tell you a bit about my character concept. I would like to make a sword and board style Halfling that goes into Dragon Disciple via mostly Paladin levels with a dip into Gold Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer. The character will focus more on melee early on and fall into the arcane side of things later. My plan is to go for Mithral Agile Breastplate and Light Shield. I’ll be going for a Str based attacker. Even with the racial negatives to Str I make up for it with a size bonus to hit and scaling Str bonuses from Dragon Disciple. I will be trying to work in Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash and Power Attack. With Fey Foundling and Greater Mercy the concept is to have a pool of self-healing to the character able to get in and stay in for extended fights. It will actually be refreshing to get back to a character who can benefit from the big six.

So, with that being said the only non-core things that this character would use are:

Fey Foundling
Greater Mercy
Bracers of the Merciful Knight
Oath of Vengeance Paladin

Now, Fey Foundling is obviously what I would need to start with at first level for the concept to work correctly. And with taking a level or two in Sorcerer to get the Gold Draconic Bloodline it muddies his ancestry a bit. I’m fine with that and would actually like to embrace it. I know the typical places that are popular for Halflings to live in but I’m not sure where would be the best place for this character to be from. I’m thinking a deeply forested region where fey are prevalent.

I’m not going for the annoying Halfling trope. I would rather break stereotype there and do something completely different. I would the character to encompass everything you typically picture in a dragon knight. Chivalric, virtuous, calm and collected, insightful and wise. But not drab and boring either. I plan on having the character sport a multi-colored fauxhawk that he will be keeping up with Prestidigitation. He will retain the cheery, adventure loving wanderlust from his Halfling heritage. As for where the Fey part comes in, I’m not sure because I can easily see that leading down the path of “annoying Halfling” so I think I may have to downplay that a bit as far as how he acts but will likely have the character keenly aware of all parts of his heritage and actively trying to dispel negative stereotypes through action.

So what I basically need help with here is firming up how this character’s heritage came to be and where this all went down at. My DM isn’t big on “high fantasy” (a rather subjective term, really given the genre) so I would prefer not to have anything too fantastic. Not sure how I can do that with both Dragon and Fey ancestry but that is my goal here. Maybe something with a Quetzacoatl? They are kinda somewhere between a Fey and Dragon sorta, right?

Anyone have ideas where in Golarion I could fit him into? Any ideas for fitting his ancestry in without getting overly fantastic?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I will be playing in a new home game soon and have been excitedly considering character concepts. This is one of the most entertaining things in my life, by the way. It may seem silly but designing characters at the start of a new game is something I cherish when it happens and always look forward to.

This time is a bit different, though, as it is the first home game I will be playing in after getting involved deeply into PFS. I am finding that most of the concepts that I am considering are ones that will not work in PFS. It isn't due to roleplaying issues or compatibility of the concepts with organized play. They are all mechanical reasons. Either feats or classes that are banned in PFS or they use rules that are ambiguous enough that I would have to deal with table variation to the point of making the concept unplayable.

I'm not here to complain about it though. My thought was that I'm likely not alone with this issue. If I werre a member of campaign leadership I would want to know what areas of organized play my player base (or prospective player base) thinks can be improved. As long as the ideas do not conflict with the setting, disrupt the balance of the organized play environment or are precluded by specific PFS rules they are likely worth at least considering.

This is all supposed to be constructive so lets keep this to a couple of guidelines:

1: Only post concepts that are blocked due to banned materials or ambiguous rules. Things that can be remedied by something being allowed or cleared up.

2: Post the source that the content you would like to work comes from.

3: Post why you want to play it and why it would be good in PFS (or at least not worse than in a home game).

With any luck leadership could use this thread as feedback on what their players would like to see and could use this as a guide to see which resources need attention for being permitted in PFS.

I have an Aasimar Seeker Nature Oracle that will be getting the Celestial Servant (already has this), Monstrous Mount and Monstrous Mount Mastery feats and trying to decide on which feats to get for her Griffon Animal Companion. This is a PFS character.

First of all the concept of the character is to be able to pinch hit and fill any role. She is currently only 2nd level but I have big plans for her. The idea isn't to take the spotlight away from anyone. If someone is better than her in a party then she is happy to let them take that role. But in PFS it is good to diversify as you never know what will be at your table and the goal with this character is to help fill in at any table. It is a combination of a thought experiment with a role playing concept I really wanted to try.

As a Seeker she can handle the role of trap scout. She has the Skilled racial trait which helps with her perception checks. With a 14 Int she has a decent number of skill points as well. The downfall I am finding to Seeker is getting rid of the class skills which would really help with a Nature Oracle with a Mount.

A 19 Cha goes a long way to making her competant as a party face, Skilled gives a +2 bonus to Diplomacy as well. I plan on getting a Circlet of Persuasion and Cha headband as well so this is only going to get better. Of course as a buffer and healer she has that covered fairly well just by being an Oracle. Nature Mystery helps here as well in a few ways. The only role she doesn't really fill well is artillery or blaster but later on she could get a few spells to fill in for that as well. Her save DCs should be pretty high so she shouldn't be too bad there.

For combat, though, she doesn't do much directly. She relies on her Animal Companion for that. Currently her Animal Companion is a Celestial Horse (or Featherhorse if you prefer, hehe) named Raisins. At 5th level Raisins is going to digivolve to Belatrix (a Celestial Griffon) and at 7th level I will be able to ride her while flying. Thanks to Nature's Whispers, a Mithral Agile Breastplate and a Mithral Heavy Shield she should be fairly survivable in melee. Her attacks are terrible though. Outside of the occasional Gozreh's Trident I doubt she will be contributing directly to combat much. I was considering getting a Transformative Spear that I could use as a Lance but her attack bonus is so low I doubt it is worth it.

So with this in mind I am looking for ways to help the Griffon be able to meaningfully contribute in combat consistently. Here are some things I am considering:

Toughness: This is a must have. Regardless of my other choices I am definitely going to take this.

Improved Unarmed Strike -> Dragon Style: For charge based Animal Companions (especially those with pounce) this is a pretty solid strategy. However, with the Griffon flying after 7th level it makes this less appealing as difficult terrain will rarely interfere with charge lines and allies will rarely be in the way.

Hover or Skill Focus: Fly: With average maneuverability and Large size that nets a -2 modifier to fly checks. It does have a workable static Dex of 15 which scales with level. By 7th level it will have a +2 to Str and Dex from Animal Companion chart bonuses. With a rank in Fly as a class skill that would make it's Fly skill a 6. Reading the Fly skill that makes this kinda bad. One idea I had to fix this without spending feats and skill ranks is picking up a Sky Marine's Elite Saddle to get a +5 competance bonus to Fly checks. I probably am getting this anyway as my character could use the bonus to Ride checks as well anyway and the Featherfall effect seems valuable.

Improved Unarmed Strike -> Grapple line of feats: This would help with locking down an enemy and making sure the Rake attacks hit after a charge. Grapple isn't really something I'm interested in, though.

Weapon Focus (Claws? Talons?): I think I'm going to skip this to avoid a rules quagmire. Griffons have Talons on the front and get Rake attacks on the back. The normal Griffon statblock lists the Rake attacks as "Claws". So I probably can't get Weapon Focus on both Talons and Claws without spending two feats like Great Cats can. Besides I'm also considering picking up Evolved Companion to give my Griffon Wing Buffet attacks. On a multiattacking Animal Companion with 4 different types of natural attacks Weapon Focus isn't very desirable.

Death from Above: +5 on charge attacks from the air rather than +2 seems good. Unlike Weapon Focus it applies to all attacks on a charge and with Pounce that can be devastating.

Power Attack: Its scaling damage. It might be better on a one big attack type Animal Companion but then again with a potential 7 attacks (8 with Divine Power) coming the enemy's way each turn dealing more damage per attack seems good. It also will help with punching through DR.

Combat Reflexes -> Bodyguard -> In Harm's Way: Even with a high standing AC the character isn't going to have a lot of HP. The Griffon, on the other hand, will. It will have Toughness, a good Con and +3HP from the Blackthorn Rancher trait. The downfalls are that a Griffon doesn't have reach so part of Combat Reflexes goes to waste. On the other hand being Large sized at least threatens more squares. Righteous Might will give it reach, so there is that. Bodyguard helps with AC but she should already be pretty high with Cha to AC, Breasplate, Shield, Barkskin and the occasional Shield of Faith. I'm not sure if it is worth investing 2 feats from my Animal Companion to up my already high AC. In Harm's Way is good for being able to take a hit for me, though, but I'm not sure it is worth the 3 feat investment.

Armor Proficiencies: I don't normally do this on Animal Companions. Mithral Chain Shirt barding is cheap and has a 0 ACP so proficiency isn't necessary. It has a good natural armor bonus and Dex. Barkskin will help as well as the occasional Shield of Faith. I doubt heavier armor proficiencies will be needed and besides it all adds to weight which I need to try to keep low.

Teamwork Feats: I thought about some of these but I don't get enough feats for it to be effective. The saddle that I plan on getting allows for sharing of the rider's to the Animal Companion so it is possibly doable with one or two feats late in my build. Precise Strike could be a good boost in damage. Outflank and Pack Flanking could help with lousy to hit bonuses on my character but generally I think of that as a lost cause anyway. Still it would help with the Griffon hitting if my buffs weren't enough. The biggest problem is this cuts into my character's feats which are already in short supply.

Narrow Frame: Its useful for getting the Griffon into tight places. Unfortunately it lacks the usefulness of Belt of the Weasel or Corset of the Viskkanya which would give him Compression and actually let him get into and out of places he couldn't normally fit. For this reason I tend to think that Extra Item Slot might be better. Speaking of which...

Extra Item Slot: Belt of the Weasel could be good but that precludes being able to get a Strength Belt. A Belt of Thunderous Charging seems ideal for a Griffon. I could take this feat twice and also get the Griffon a Corset of the Vishkanya.

Flyby Attack: This feat is terrible. Its worse for a pouncer. Same goes for the Spring Attack line of feats.

Other generally useful feats: I could take Dodge, Iron Will or any of the saving throw feats. I kinda feel like several of these would be a waste. It will already have stellar saves due to gaining my character's Cha bonus to saves (via Friend to the Animals). It's AC should already be fairly high. Run? Endurance? Diehard?

Any other ideas? Opinions on which of these might be most useful? Any obvious choices I may have missed?

Any other suggestions about gear options or character options that would be applicable to this Griffon?

I know of the Hosteling enchantment for armor. But for characters who do not wear heavy armor or carry a tower shield that wont work. I understand that you could just buy a tower shield and carry it around but I do not want to do that. I had been told recently that there was an item that does this as it's express purpose but I do not remember what that item was or what source it was in.

The situation I would use this for is for my Aasimar Nature Oracle. She currently has a horse that will eventually become a griffon via the Monstrous Mount feat. (the feather horse!) She doesn't get Reduce Animal or Carry Companion on her spell list. She does have a decent UMD but wont be able to invest a lot of skill points in it as she levels up. I need another method of reliably being able to bring my buddy with me into places that it wouldn't otherwise be welcome or fit easily into.

I have a Kitsune character that has levels in Mouser Swashbuckler and Kata Master Monk. He fights with Bite attacks and Unarmed Strikes while in Fox Shape.

Kata Master gets the Penache class ability:

At 1st level, a kata master gains the swashbuckler’s panache class ability. At the start of each day, a kata master gains a number of panache points equal to her Charisma bonus (minimum 1). Her panache goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than his Charisma bonus (minimum 1). A kata master gains the swashbuckler’s derring-do and dodging panache deeds. A kata master can use an unarmed strike or monk special weapon in place of a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon for granted swashbuckler class features and deeds.

This ability replaces stunning fist.

Swashbucklers get the Precise Strike Deed as a class ability:

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit. As a swift action, a swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to double her precise strike’s damage bonus on the next attack. This benefit must be used before the end of her turn, or it is lost. This deed’s cost cannot be reduced by any ability or effect that reduces the amount of panache points a deed costs (such as the Signature Deed feat).

Monks get a better version of Improved Unarmed Strike that states:

A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Technically when the character is Biting and using Unarmed Strikes he isn't necessarily using ANY hand. He can use Precise Strike with any of his attacks. But how many of them can he use it with at once?

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Improved Familiar

When choosing a familiar, the creatures listed here are also available to you. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).

A 5th-level neutral spellcaster with the Improved Familiar feat can gain a brownie as a familiar.

One thought is that the Brownie entry is a case of specific trumping general. So regardless of the general rule of who can pick which kind of Improved Familiar there is more restrictive specific information regarding who can take a Brownie as a Familiar. I mean if we want to get overly pedantic with the reading of that line from Brownie then it would also mean that Eldritch Guardians and the like cannot take Improved Familiar at all (supporting arguments in these two threads). But we know that isn't true anymore due to the this ruling.

So you can be a LN or NG follower of Erastil. Both of those alignments have a neutral component. I know I'm a bit of a grognard by making this reference but back in my day we used to call an alignment with two neutral components "True Neutral". In fact, that term is still in use today even within the rules text. Take a look in the alignment chapter, it is still there. My point is if they wanted to be succinct and precise in their writing they could have used "true neutral" rather than "neutral". I believe there is an argument to be made that they could have meant neutral along one of the axis and not explicitly True Neutral. To infer either way requires one to make a statement about what the intention of the wording is. Without developer input I am afraid we will never know what the intention was.

If it matters this is for a character concept I have for an Elven Eldritch Guardian with a Brownie Familiar. Personally I think it is a little weird that one of the most naturey gods in Golarion is going to be all, "Ew! A Brownie! You aren't allowed to both associate with one of those disgusting Fey and still worship me!" while Gozreh is saying, "Chill. I like the little dudes. ...but I don't like archers enough for you to be a Deadeye Bowman."

Since we know that Paizo does not prefer an overly pedantic reading of individual Improved Familiar entries regarding what constitutes as a "5th level spellcaster" the only thing we need to know is if they prefer an overly pedantic reading of "5th level neutral spellcaster". Personally, I believe that them stating "neutral" is just reinforcing the general rules for Improved Familiar. I admit I am bias but I just can't see Erastil disliking Brownies that much.


Bladed Brush

Note: This is associated with a specific deity.

You know how to balance a polearm perfectly, striking with artful, yet deadly precision.

Prerequisite(s): Weapon Focus (glaive), must be a worshiper of the associated deity.

Benefit(s): You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a glaive sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon. When wielding a glaive, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing or slashing melee weapon and as if you were not making attacks with your off-hand for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s or swashbuckler’s precise strike).

As a move action, you can shorten your grip on the glaive, treating it as though it lacked the reach weapon property. You can adjust your grip to grant the weapon the reach property as a move action.

I wonder why this was disallowed for PFS but allowed into the book. If it was a power issue then it seems like it should have just not made it to print. If it isn't then I'm not sure why it was ban hammered.

Regardless of the reason I would love the opportunity to use it. I have a very concept rich setting specific character I would love to play that would use it as I am sure others do. It hits right at the heart of Shelynites and seems like exactly the kind of thing you would want to have available to accomplish the types of followers Shelyn would have.

From a Designer standpoint I know some of the people who worked on the book that this is in: Paths of the Righteous. I'm sure they didn't intend to create options for them to not be usable. I see that there is a section in the Additional Resources stating, "Several options in this book are being withheld to appear on Chronicle sheets." Without giving spoilers if it is better to just tell me to shut up and wait to play some newer scenarios and I might get what I would like then I'm all ears.

Otherwise... can we please have this cookie? The underpowered martials want to have nice things. :)

I'm having troubles locating the rules for this. But say I was interested in taking levels in both Druid and Sylvan Sorcerer... how would I determine the level of my character's Animal Companion?

How does this interact with Boon Companion?

Robes of Arcane Heritage?

This forum used to be listed here. Why is it not anymore? Can it be added back there please?

I like to go there to quickly access the advice and rules forum. I also used to go there to get to the PFS forum. Its kinda annoying that the PFS forum isn't in the rest of the Pathfinder forum list. It also doesn't really make sense for it not to be.

Tumor Familiar

Benefit: The alchemist creates a Diminutive or Tiny tumor on his body, usually on his back or stomach. As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature. The tumor can reattach itself to the alchemist as a standard action. The tumor has all the abilities of the animal it resembles (for example, a batlike tumor can fly) and familiar abilities based on the alchemist’s caster level (though some familiar abilities may be useless to an alchemist). The tumor acts as the alchemist’s familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on). When attached to the alchemist, the tumor has fast healing 5. An alchemist’s extracts and mutagens are considered spells for the purposes of familiar abilities like share spells and deliver touch spells. If a tumor familiar is lost or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized procedure that costs 200 gp per alchemist level. The ritual takes 8 hours to complete.

Swap Places
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally who also has this feat, you can move into your ally’s square as part of normal movement. At the same time, your ally moves into your previous space as an immediate action. Both you and your ally must be willing and able to move to take advantage of this feat. Your ally must be the same size as you to utilize this feat. Your ally does not provoke an attack of opportunity from this movement, but you provoke as normal. This movement does not count against your ally’s movement on his next turn.

Lets say you are a Halfling and get the Improved Swap Places which allows for you to swap places with your ally if you are one size different. Also lets say you have a way to give your Familiar a Teamwork Feat like Swap Places such as via the Eldritch Guardian's ability to share Combat Feats. And let say you have a Tumor Familiar from having some levels of Aberrant Bloodline Bloodrager and the Aberrant Tumor Feat. That you use this feat. While attached.

Cmon. Imagine it. What happens there? Do you become your Familiar's Tumor?!

... a sick part of me wants to do this now.

I have an idea rolling around in my head. Nothing solid yet, just looking for tools to put in the toolbox.

I'm thinking of making an unarmed Magus that uses the Possessed Hand line of feats.

For Magus I'm thinking either Esoteric, Beastblade, Kensai or Hexcrafter. I kinda like where all of them could go. I also was thinking of taking a single level (or maybe two?) of Monk because Improved Unarmed Strike doesn't give all of the benefits of a Monk's Unarmed Strike and when you hand decides to go for a walk on it's own it would cut down on the number of hands you have to do stuff with. For Monk I'm thinking maybe Sohei? Or Master of Many Styles could be decent?

Heh... if you use Crane Style or such feats would your hand be considered "free" if it is like... actually free. As in free from your body and roaming on it's own? Or if you activated Elemental Fist and then detached your hand would it keep the bonuses?

I would definitely want to get all of the Possessed Hand feats except maybe Hand Knowledge. I think I would also want to go for Improved Familiar and give the hand a template. Celestial or Clockwork both sound like cool options.

I would also likely go Human for the number of feats required to make this work.

Has anyone considered anything like this before? Anyone have any suggestions or other ideas to throw into this kind of concept?

I have been inspired by a number of threads (here, here and here) and have decided I want to try building a Sacred Fist that uses Crusader's Flurry.

I have pretty much settled on a few points of this build:
1. Likely going to need to be Human to fit all the feats in that I want.
2. I want to go with a Large sized Bastard Sword so that likely means worshipping Ragathiel. Not a bad choice in deity at all. Reasoning:

A big part of the concept here is to have the typical build and demeanor of a Barbarian with a bit more control and less chaotic, raging, kill happy (still a murder hobo though, heh). But when entering combat he can focus his considerable strength and skill into swinging this big slab of metal around faster than most other warriors can swing a weapon an eight of the size. His agility with such a weapon should be a shock value both in RP and mechanics.
I considered going Gorum with a Greatsword but I just like the flavor of a Large sized Bastard Sword more. But perhaps there is something I haven't considered here. I am open to being enlightened as to some superior concept I may have missed.

3. Going with my first level as Bloodrager. There are a number of reasons for this:
I need to gain proficiency in my deity's weapon as this does NOT come standard with Sacred Fist. Personally, I think that was something accidentally overlooked when creating the archetype but as this is for PFS it needs to be 100% legal. That means I have to take a level in a martial class. I briefly considered the madness of taking a level in Titan Fighter and going with a Huge sized Bastard Sword. But the lack of a bonus feat and the -4 to attacks quickly sobered me on the idea. I also considered Barbarian but that doesn't play well with Monk.
Bloodrager seems like the natural choice. There are no alignment restrictions like Barbarian, I get Fast Movement to emulate a Monk's normal speed bonuses and I can go with Destined as my Bloodline. It seems thematic and Destined Strike can help a bit and is a free action so can be done with everything else without disrupting action economy. It also allows free use of wands for the Wand of Mage Armor that is going to be needed.

That is about where the framework of my build ends and where my questions begin.

Vital Strike:
I was strongly considering going with the Vital Strike line of feats. A Large sized Bastard Sword deals 2d8 damage. This is just the weapon damage and stacks with all effective and actual size changes. Thus going to Large size (via a variety of means: Enlarge Person, Righteous Might, etc.) and getting the Impact enhancement on my weapon or using Lead Blades on my weapon would increase it's damage to 4d8. With Vital Strike that would make it 8d8. Improved Vital Strike would be 12d8.

Vital Strike would be useful in any turn that I can't use Crusader's Flurry, mostly when I have to move to reach my enemy. Even without it carrying around a weapon that can deal 4d8+modifiers damage with each hit is good for flurrying as well. This all also makes crits tasty. Even better with the thought of having a Keen weapon. Yeah, I know it will be a while before I can have a +1 Keen Impact Large Adamantine Bastard Sword, but it is good to have goals. And besides, Lead Blades can carry me for a while until I can afford that Impact enhancement.

There are also a variety of feats that are great with this. Devastating Strike and Furious Finish can be great with such a build.

Style Feats:
Yep, I pretty much have no idea what is best here. I was strongly considering the Dragon Style line of feats but if I am going with Vital Strike then I don't want to charge.

Ascetic Style doesn't really help because there aren't many feats that I want to use with Unarmed Strike via my Bastard Sword. I did consider Stunning Fist, but I could just get Cornugon Stun if I wanted to do that. I suppose there is the Scorpion Style line of feats that could be decent. Its too bad it isn't an actual Style feat even though it has "style" in the name. I could get Belier's Bite, I guess. I don't think I'll need the bleed damage as I should be dropping foes fairly easily with the sheer damage of my attacks.

Elemental Fist could be decent, I suppose as I could apply that damage through the sword. Then I would be dealing some unholy combination of d6s and d8s. I could even use it in combination with Dragon Style... but I don't think I want to do that due to the aforementioned problem with not being able to charge while Vital Striking. Also, I'm not sure if the Sacred Fist levels count for the Special line in the Dragon Style feats to allow the character to count as a Monk of the Four Winds. If it did then it would make it slightly more worthwhile for when I would be able to get to Dragon's Roar. The character would likely never get there whether I play it in PFS or not though as the 3rd bonus style feat would come online at 19th level with this build.

Actually, am I missing where it says that Elemental Fist has to be used on Unarmed Strikes only? If such a restriction doesn't exist then that could open up some possibilities.

So what does that leave? I don't want to do any kind of grappling thing and honestly do not care to focus on unarmed strikes much. I can't mix styles so using Ascetic Style + another unarmed striking style (like Panther, Wolf, Janni, etc.) wont work. I'm not going to have a hand free so things like Crane and Snapping Turtle Style are out.

I gave some serious consideration to Swordplay Style but dealing with -2 from an inappropriately sized weapon, -2 from Flurry and Power Attack negatives doesn't seem wise to also stack Combat Expertise or Fighting Defensively as well. While I am confident that with all of the Warpriest's buffs and the high Strength the build will have I will be able to overcome the normal negatives of Flurrying with a Large Bastard Sword I do not plan on tempting the fates even further with stacking further negatives.

Dragon Style at least gives some resistances and I suppose having the ability to charge over difficult terrain when I otherwise wouldn't be able to move over that terrain and attack might eventually come up as being useful. Shaken could also help with Dragon Ferocity. But it also requires I get Stunning Fist which I wouldn't be using without having Ascetic Style, so... meh. Or if I got Wolf Style it could be situationally useful. I guess I could also grab Vicious Stomp which could be situationally useful there as well. I don't really want to spend feats on something that is so tertiary to the build and only situationally useful though.

Channel Smite:
I was also looking into using these feats with the build. With Versatile Channeler I could channel either positive or negative energy. This also opens up getting a Phylactery of Positive or Negative Channeling to add +2d6 damage when channeling.

I could also take the Extra Channel Energy feat if I wanted to increase the number of times/day I can use this. Improved Channel is also a possibility. Greater Channel Smite doesn't really seem worth getting, though.

The only real downfall is that this does eat into action economy slightly by using a Swift action that I could be using to activate one of my subpar Styles or more likely use for Fervor buffing or healing. But on turns I'm already buffed as much as I'd like and just want to deal extra damage this can help.

Other stuff:
Let see... for feats I already mentioned Power Attack, right? That is a huge damage boost when two handing a weapon that is too hard to turn down. It also makes Furious Focus appealing but not sure if I can fit it in the build with the distinct lack of bonus feats. Toughness is always good, but again, not sure if I can fit it in. Horn of the Criosphyinx can be good if I DO plan on going with the Dragon Style line of feats. Again, I feel that Vital Strike seems better, though.

For equipment I already mentioned the goal of a +1 Keen Impact Large Adamantine Bastard Sword. Other enhancements that I found appealing were Furious, Conductive (for channeling Fervor), Spell Storing, Vicious and Holy. Alas, one can't have it all and choices have to be made. Ki Intensifying could be nice if I went with Wolf Style, I guess.

I also already brought up the Wand of Mage Armor which I think will always be needed in the build. Monk's Robe will also help with AC and if I do get Stunning Fist it could help with that too. It wont be until later that I get it but can't think of a better body slot item to get. Of course, Str, Con, Dex and Wis items will always be beneficial. I'm not sure what combination of belts, headbands and Ioun stones I will get to accommodate the build best. Amulet I'm likely to leave to natural armor as I don't need AoMF though the aforementioned Phylactery of Channeling also seems good.

Any other suggestions for gear, feats, etc. are welcome so long as they fit with the concept.

So, I have an Ectoplasmatist and my attack bonus isn't all that high. I am looking for ways to increase it.

Some things to know:
1. I am using Weapon Finesse and Slashing Grace so I already have Weapon Focus. So I realize that a Dex belt comes at high priority as it increases both my hit and damage. For reference this is the build I am going with:

Ectoplasmatist 1 / Bladebound/Kensai Magus 3 / Master of Many Styles Monk 1 / then the rest Ectoplasmatist
Yes, I realize that it isn't the most optimal build but it accomplishes the concept that I am going for. My feats will be:
Weapon Finesse (human)
Weapon Focus (Kensai)
Combat Reflexes (1st)
Slashing Grace (3rd)
Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus)
Crane Style (bonus)
Snapping Turtle Style (5th)
Deflect Arrows (7th)
Crane Wing (9th)
Weapon Trick: Stylish Riposte (11th)
Crane Riposte (13th)

The character is currently 3rd level and is being played in PFS and is being played through Emerald Spire. I have barely spent any gold and almost have enough for my Dex belt which I will be picking up after my next session (being played tonight).

2. The Ectoplasmic Lash is considered to be a weapon that is wielded in your hand. That means that it should work with such things as Deliquescent Gloves which help in the damage department but not the attack bonus.

3. Amulet of Mighty Fists doesn't work as it isn't a Natural Attack.

4. Greater Magic Weapon does work because it is a "weapon".

5. Due to my Bladebound/Kensai Magus levels I will be able to use my Arcane Pool to give it an enhancement bonus until it gets outstripped by the rest of my Ectoplasmatist scaling bonus.

6. There are a few other spells that will help later like Shocking Grasp against opponents who have metal on them and personal buffs like Aid, Haste, Heroism, etc.

7. I know there are a bunch of debuffs that could be applied to make an opponent easy to hit. Unless they are something I could fit into my pre-existing build and can be done regularly without interfering with my usual schtick I will probably skip them. Example: I don't want to carry a net due to weight issues on a low Str build and because I don't want to spend a turn basically debuffing my target before tearing in when I'm likely already using a turn to buff as is.

8. Same thing goes for situational modifiers. I already know about such things as flanking, higher ground, prone targets, etc. I use those whenever I can.

9. There are a few corner case items that are helpful but most are prohibitively expensive (currently) like the Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone. Well, I guess I could afford the cracked version, hm... well, these kinds of things can help if you know of others. Luckstones sadly do not add to attack bonus.

10. While expendable things like potions and round/day magic items are helpful I am looking for things that are more sustainable in the long run. Still, as long as it doesn't hit the belt pouch hard it is likely at least worth considering. Also, I just wanted to end on 10.


Topic says it all. Just want a simple straight forward ruling.

Ok, last build for the night. This is another consideration I have for an upcoming PFS Emerald Spire game.

Well, I don't actually have a full build here but I have a solid concept. The idea is to go with Ectoplasmatist for a single level to get the Ectoplasmic Lashes, then 3 levels of Bladebound/Kensai Magus and make the Ectoplasmic Lash an intelligent weapon. Then the rest of the levels would go into more Ectoplasmatist.

The roleplay here is that the Lash is actually a disembodied tentacle of Cthulhu that whispers insane thoughts into the character's mind. It is doable with a Chaotic Neutral character. I wouldn't push the evil barrier, but would play heavily on the "the end is nigh" crazy sauce.

Conceptually I have posted several thoughts on the topic here and here.

I am torn on the idea of a Slashing Grace build for this. While the build is pretty MAD I don't think that Slashing Grace alone will solve the problem. It wouldn't work with Spell Combat but would work with Spiritual Combat. If I use a shield it wont work at all and I think the build would need it if I plan on getting into melee frequently (and I do). I could use a Buckler and the difference is fairly negligible.

Going 1 Ectoplasmatist, 3 Magus, 3 URogue is straight out. That is spreading it too thin. It does give me everything I want out of the concept but at too great of a cost and cuts the build FAR too thin. At least with the planned build I would be basically full 3/4 BAB with the free Weapon Focus from Kensai.

The major problems with the build are as follows:
1. If I don't go for a Slashing Grace build then I will need to have a good Strength to be able to hit consistently and have reasonable damage. I cannot forgo Con completely as this is a melee build. Int I need to be at least an 11 so that I can actually cast Magus spells and 13 if I want to go with a tripping build using Combat Expertise. Wis I need high to keep the DCs of the Spiritualist spells high. That makes Cha the dump stat and I will probably have to dump it hard. Even with min/maxing his ability scores I accept that the build isn't going to be very strong. My goal at this point is to mitigate the weaknesses of the concept.

2. Taking 3 levels of Bladebound/Kensai hurts the Spiritualist progression. It puts off the Ectoplasmic Armor, delays the only reasonable scaling increase of the main weapon by 3 levels and delays spellcasting.

3. I am at a bit of a loss of what to do with good feats for making the character effective at combat. The biggest obvious problem is going to be a low to hit bonus but other than pumping Str I don't have any way of reasonably improving that. Going Slashing Grace helps shore this up slightly but hurts in other ways. I have considered a Trip build but with a low CMB that will be hard to land. Going with a Dex based Slashing Grace build is counter intuitive to this until I could get Fury's Fall.

Still, with all of the problems considered I think the build has some merit. It will have stellar Fort and Will saves. If I go with a Dex based Slashing Grace build then Reflex wont be too shabby either. Weak defenses can be shored up nicely with spells. There are plenty of temporary hit point buffs, long duration buffs and the like to bring me close to a martial level. The problem, of course, being that I will likely have a 10min/level working day. It does have a fair amount of versatility especially with the selection of spell lists available for wand usage.

The real issue is that I am having trouble coming up with effective ways to capitalize on the few benefits the build offers. I like it from an RP perspective and really want to do what I can to get it to work from a mechanical perspective. I think I need some help on this one...

Anyway, how do you think this might work for an Emerald Spire game? I don't know what is included but would a Cthulhu worshiper put a kink in anything or might it work particularly well?

This is one of the builds that I am considering for an upcoming PFS Emerald Spire game. The build is largely inspired by Tankster. The theme of the build is a Dwarf who has the latent blood of several dragon breeds within him. Extreme Endurance I attribute to latent Silver Dragon blood, Dragon Totem I will be taking for Red Dragon and Draconic I will be taking for Blue Dragon. I considered replacing the Silver with White so he could be an American Dragon ... (pun), ok, bad joke.

Without further ado, here is my build concept:


Str 16
Dex 14
Con 15+2
Int 8
Wis 10+2
Cha 8-2

Fighter levels are Unarmed Fighter
Barbarian levels are Invunlerable Rager

Fighter 1
Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Crane Style (bonus), Endurance (1st)
Barbarian 1
Fast Movement, Rage, Invulnerability
Barbarian 2
Rager Power: Animal Fury, DR 1/-, Die Hard (3rd)
Fighter 2
Harsh Training, Stalwart (bonus)
Barbarian 3
Extreme Endurance: Cold, Combat Reflexes (5th)
Barbarian 4
Rage Power: Reckless Abandon, DR 2/-
Barbarian 5
Power Attack (7th)
Barbarian 6
Rage Power: Dragon Totem, DR 3/-, Cold Resistance: 1
Barbarian 7
Steel Soul (9th)
Barbarian 8
Rage Power: Dragon Totem Resilience, DR 4/-
Barbarian 9
Cold Resistance: 2, Improved Stalwart (11th)
Barbarian 10
Rage Power: Dragon Totem Wings, DR 5/-
Barbarian 11
Greater Rage, Extra Rage Power: Guarded Life (13th)
Barbarian 12
Rage Power: Lesser Draconic Blood, DR 6/-, Cold Resistance: 3
Barbarian 13
Extra Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction (15th)
Barbarian 14
Indomitable Will, Rage Power: Draconic Blood, DR 7/-
Barbarian 15
Cold Resistance: 4, Extra Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction (17th)
Barbarian 16
Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem, DR 8/-
Barbarian 17
Tireless Rage, Rage Power: Greater Draconic Blood (19th)
Barbarian 18
Rage Power: Increased Damage Reduction, DR 9/-, Cold Resistance: 5

Here is a breakdown of how he will look at 7th level:


DR 6/-

17 = 10 +7 (+1 Breastplate), +1 Defender of the Society, +2 Dex, +1 Shield (Bill), -2 Reckless Abandon, -2 Rage

Attack: (considering +2 Str Belt)
+13 = 7 BAB, -2 (Fighting Defensively), +6 Str, +2 Reckless Abandon

Damage: (considering +2 Str Belt)
1d8 +15 (+9 Str, +6 Power Attack)

Mechanically the obvious concept is that the only feat that I really need to deal damage is Power Attack and I can reserve all of my other feats and rage powers to further the Invulnerable Dragon theme.

How do you all think this might work for Emerald Spire? Without spoilers I know that it is a dungeon crawl so the dwarfy dark vision will be a plus. Also, it isn't a mounted build and I have heard that is terrible. Barbarians also tend to do well in dungeon crawls.

I like the build well enough but it does step on the toes mechanically of another build that I am already playing. Also, the only other person that I know will be playing in the game is set on playing a high AC Swashbuckler mish mash of classes.

I know it is a 20th level build but that is possible in PFS now. I actually was recently at a convention that had a table of 19th level characters all hit 20th that night. And starting with a module is a good way to get me on my way to that magical number.

I had a random thought about mixing Spellbreaker with the Spell Sunder line of Rage Powers. After some thought I think Viking is the best class to use for this as they get both a lot of feats which are needed for the build and Rage Powers. Here is my concept build, please let me know what you think:


Spellbreaker Fighter

Str 14+2 (human)
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8

Fighter levels are all Viking levels.

Fighter 1
Two-Weapon Fighting (bonus), Improved Shield Bash (human), Shield Focus (1st)
Fighter 2
Fearsome, Missile Shield (bonus)
Fighter 3
Shield Defense, Ray Shield (3rd)
Fighter 4
Berserker, Step Up (bonus)
Fighter 5
Following Step (5th)
Fighter 6
Rage Power: Superstitious (bonus)
Fighter 7
Disruptive (7th)
Fighter 8
Rage Power: Witch Hunter (bonus)
Fighter 9
Extra Rage Power: Spell Sunder (9th)
Fighter 10
Spellbreaker (bonus)
Fighter 11
Extra Rage Power: Sunder Enchantment (11th)
Fighter 12
Combat Reflexes (bonus)
Fighter 13
Rage Power: Eater of Magic (13th)

The only thing I feel that I am missing for build options is the ability to get the Cut from the Air Advanced Weapon Training. But the difference between that and Ray Shield are small enough to not miss.

Some items of consideration:
1. The only thing I think I wont want to block using Ray Shield is Disintegrate. I can't find any way around that. Even so I plan on getting an adamantine shield.

2. I also plan on taking the Shield Trained trait to allow me to Two-Weapon Fight with a heavy shield and ... I dunno, a Battle Axe? Warhammer? Can't really decide.

3. I guess I am going to go with a Spiked Shield. I could go for Bashing but that would only make it a +1 weapon as I wont have room in the build for Shield Master. Its too bad too as it is a powerful option. At least with Shield Spiked I could split up some enhancements.

4. With the free scaling bonuses I will be getting from Viking for armor I am thinking of getting creative to my enhancements to the shield. Maybe Arrow Catching and Arrow Deflection? Ghost Touch seems like it would be important so I can always get those bonuses but it is a +3 bonus, so... maybe not? Impervious could be good combined with Ray Shield so I don't lose my prized possession. Or perhaps since I am going with Superstitious I should go all out throwing caution to the wind and go for some Spell Resistance as well?

5. With the loss of Weapon Training (admittedly the largest loss in the build) and the lack of Power Attack or Weapon Specialization I will not be winning any awards for damage. Only going one feat deep into Two-Weapon Fighting doesn't help either. Still, the to hit bonus should be high and Rage does help. Other than getting higher enhancement bonuses on his weapons, higher Strength and the Furious enhancement there isn't much else I can find that will help. There are some minor baubles like the bane baldric that could help sometimes. Any other ideas?

I have been working on some stuff for my homebrew game and found that I had forgot to create a necromancer but have been using some of their undead minions. I am in a bit of a pinch and have created other necromancer types so am a bit burnt out on it. I will admit that some of this stems from laziness with this particular task. But hey, why reinvent the wheel if someone else already has something useful? :)

Does anyone have a build laying around for a necromancer of about this level? It doesn't have to be an actual necromancer, just anything that can animate undeads. Bones Oracles, Gravewalker Witches, etc. are all fair game. My only requirement outside of that is that the party is currently in a frozen north area of the campaign setting so something thematic to the region might work well. Some of the things they are going to be using for minions will be Frostfallen. This character wont be the actual BBEG, but rather one of his generals.

So I may have painted myself into a bit of a corner here. A while ago in a home game that I run I introduced a tower that group of mercenaries called the Shadow Clan discovered. It is said that in times past that this tower served as a training ground and test of skill. Those who passed the tests were deemed worthy of becoming one of the renowned Shadow Masters (title only, not really a Prestige Class or anything).

The problem is that I brought this up back when the party was only level 6 or so. I had plans on what I was going to use for the tower. I was going to be running a modified Jacob's Tower and am still strongly considering purchasing it for other future uses. My party decided against pursuing that particular path at the time but ever since then has shown a deep desire in every one of them to go back and pursue that tower. The problem is that they have since long outgrown it. They will likely be 12th or 13th level before they have a chance to pursue other goals than the adventure they are currently on. That outright eliminates Jacob's Tower as an option.

I am also at a point in DMing where I am coming up with several original options for them at once to avoid railroading and am busy on the other paths they might take. I want something predesigned to use and modify for this tower and am coming up empty handed. I was hoping that some of the good experienced DMs of this board might be willing to offer some suggestions.

Here are my requirements:

1. When I say "tower" that is misleading. I want it to either be a barried tower that they have to go down into, or a series of sub-basements. There is another reason for this. The end of this campaign will lead them into the Underdark of my homebrew world and have them face some threats there. There are other important reasons as well like the fact that the party now has easy access to flight and there would seem to be no reason to not start at the top of the tower if it were above ground. Even with it being underground I suspect they are clever enough to burrow but that at least offers some difficulties to most of the party. I can wiggle around some of this and modify existing works to match this requirement well enough, I'm sure.

2. It needs to be big. Probably nothing close to mega-dungeon size. A full module would be nice though. Even a large one.

3. It needs to appeal to the rogueish types. Obstacle courses, labyrinths, traps, skulking, puzzles, etc are all valuable to this kind of thing. If the purpose of the place is to test the skills of a band of shadowy assassins then this seems important. The whole thing doesn't need to be this way. Maybe just some of the earlier levels.

4. Easily modifiable to fit the aforementioned points. Well, I would likely settle for modifiable.

Also, a little background on the campaign:


This campaign follows a group of adventurers who came under hire from a man that was later revealed to be a Steel Dragon. He brought them under his tutelage due to the rising dragon related activities in the area. The first part of the campaign started out with a modified version of Dragon's Demand. Many of the foes were made more dragony and the impetus of the BBEG's academic interests were not on the Dark Tapestry but rather on the Underdark. This was forshadowing but was never deeply pursued. At the end of this arch their former sensei revealed himself as the Steel Dragon he is during the destruction of Belhaim (modified from the original work) and this set off a chain of adventures revolving around the dealings of dragons as the movers and shakers of events happening around them.

They have also visited a modified Menagerie from Dragon's Unleashed. They explored a gnomish mine named Castengrove (original work of mine) that had been massacred by one of the Swarmlords. They very nearly stopped the sale of an ancient evil relic that is actually the egg of a Phoenix/White Dragon amalgam and sacred to a band of Ice Trolls known as the Stormborn. Sadly, the leader of this band escaped with this relic in hand. They have freed a swampland of a magical Blight, slain the Swarmlords and at least one of their masters and an evil Unseelie Fey Blighted Black Dragon. They have restored a World Tree in this same region and built a new Druid Caern that can be used as a teleportation circle linked to several other Caerns on this world. They have brought with them survivors from many of their past adventures (including survivors from Belhaim) and established a base of operations in Castengrove.

Their current adventure has them pursuing the Stormborn in the Frozen North and the relic/egg containing their deity. They have some other avenues they are likely to pursue after this. One of them is the tower I have mentioned. Another is a siege upon their base of operations while they are away that I plan on handling a lot like True Dragons of Absalom. The others I will be working on with original works. It is this tower that I need help with.

The above spoiler is really the long way of saying that this is a largely Dragon-based campaign where Dragons are the movers and shakers of their adventures. This will probably represent one way I would be modifying whatever module I decide to use.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I am considering a build for an Ectoplasmatist. Before I dive into my build concept I kinda need some information on how the mechanics of the class works. I would rather not deal with table variation so any input on this would be helpful as I was planning this for PFS play.

That being said I do not know who designed the archetype but some input from that person would likely be helpful. I know there has already been a FAQ for that book so perhaps this could be added to that. I know I am not alone with these questions (please FAQ request this post). Even without a FAQ I have had very positive results from designer's intent posts so even just that would be very helpful. I appreciate anyone taking their time to help. Thank you in advance!

So without further ado, here are the questions:

1. While I'm fairly certain there is no issue with taking Weapon Focus for weapon-like spells and bombs where does that leave Lash? Judging from this FAQ it seems like it is all allowable. Bombs are (Su) and so is Lash so ... I'm good. Right?

2. The Lashes don't actually take up hands... or do they? The fluff seems to indicate that they do not with "ectoplasm tethered to her by wispy, ectoplasmic tendrils" but then it also says "she can wield them both as light melee weapons". I can't tell whether they mean that they sorta just come out of her like a tentacle as a separate appendage or if that while they are tethered that they still have to be held to be swung like a weapon.

I am assuming that you need Two-Weapon Fighting to use two Lashes effectively because it says that they are wielded like weapons. But whether they take up an actual hand or not seems fuzzy. The level 4 ability allowing them to manipulate objects at a distance could either mean that they are separate autonomous appendages or that you still have to hold them to use them in this way. Spiritual Combat also is unclear. The ability saying "an ectoplasmatist can make all of her attacks with a single light or one-handed ectoplasmic lash wielded in one hand, and also cast a single spiritualist spell" could be interpreted in two different ways. The first is that it is saying "wielded in one hand" to signify that this ability wont function if you manifest the two-handed bludgeoning Lash, or it could support the concept that it takes a hand to "wield" the lash.

We could go with the fluff of the archetype concept in that basically it replaces a Phantom with with Ectoplasmic Lash in a sense that they harbor this mentally. But if we are likening it to a Phantom they are interchangeably described as an extension of the character's own consciousness and as a separate creature. Mostly, though, when the Phantom isn't manifested it is treated as part of the character. But where does that leave Ectoplasmic Lash? Manifested, partially manifested, "harbored" or somewhere in between? Its certainly not a separate being, but separate appendage?

This is important for several reasons. IE: How do Deliquescent Gloves work with these attacks (or do they at all)? Can I use a shield while using both Lashes? How about a buckler? Does it even allow for the use of Slashing Grace or any of the feats that require a free hand (Crane Style, etc.)?

3. How would one improve these attacks? I get that an Amulet of Mighty Fists wouldn't work as it isn't a natural attack. It is, however, still a "weapon". ...or is it? It is wielded as a weapon. But is it treated as a weapon for other things? What about Greater Magic Weapon? We covered whether it can be treated as a weapon for feats (I think they can) but what about other effects? Say you were some funky combination of Paladin and Ectoplasmatist: could you use your Divine Bond on your Lashes? Likewise what about a Magus using his Arcane Pool to enhance his weapon? Hell... for that matter could a Bladebound Magus make his Lashes an intelligent Black Blade? It could certainly make for an interesting concept!

I am considering building an Ectoplasmatist and am looking at what tools I want to put in my toolbox here.

So first of all I am considering going with Slashing Grace so it is going to be feat tight at the early levels. I am thinking of dipping to pick up Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse early but am open to suggestions about the best dip to grab theses. With the best thing for Ectoplasmatist being more Ectoplasmatist I don't really want to go more than a level deep to get it.

I also wanted to go with Two Weapon Fighting and Combat Reflexes as these are light reach weapons. These feats are so good for the build that I am really looking for a way to get them in earlier, hence why I am looking for a way to pick up some of these feats earlier.

For reference Secret Wizard has a very similar build here. It didn't inspire my concept but it is pretty close to what I am thinking about.

The build poses some challenges and some questions though. Here are some of them:

1. While I'm fairly certain there is no issue with taking Weapon Focus for weapon-like spells and bombs where does that leave Lash? Judging from this FAQ it seems like it is all allowable. Bombs are (Su) and so is Lash so ... I'm good. Right?

2. The Lashes don't actually take up hands... or do they? The fluff seems to indicate that they do not with "ectoplasm tethered to her by wispy, ectoplasmic tendrils" but then it also says "she can wield them both as light melee weapons". I can't tell whether they mean that they sorta just come out of her like a tentacle as a separate appendage or if that while they are tethered that they still have to be held to be swung like a weapon.

I am assuming that you need Two-Weapon Fighting to use two Lashes effectively because it says that they are wielded like weapons. But whether they take up an actual hand or not seems fuzzy. The level 4 ability allowing them to manipulate objects at a distance could either mean that they are separate autonomous appendages or that you still have to hold them to use them in this way. Spiritual Combat also is unclear. The ability saying "an ectoplasmatist can make all of her attacks with a single light or one-handed ectoplasmic lash wielded in one hand, and also cast a single spiritualist spell" could be interpreted in two different ways. The first is that it is saying "wielded in one hand" to signify that this ability wont function if you manifest the two-handed bludgeoning Lash, or it could support the concept that it takes a hand to "wield" the lash.

We could go with the fluff of the archetype concept in that basically it replaces a Phantom with with Ectoplasmic Lash in a sense that they harbor this mentally. But if we are likening it to a Phantom they are interchangeably described as an extension of the character's own consciousness and as a separate creature. Mostly, though, when the Phantom isn't manifested it is treated as part of the character. But where does that leave Ectoplasmic Lash? Manifested, partially manifested, "harbored" or somewhere in between? Its certainly not a separate being, but separate appendage?

This is important for several reasons. IE: How do Deliquescent Gloves work with these attacks (or do they at all)? Can I use a shield while using both Lashes? How about a buckler? Does it even allow for the use of Slashing Grace or any of the feats that require a free hand (Crane Style, etc.)?

3. How would one improve these attacks? I get that an Amulet of Mighty Fists wouldn't work as it isn't a natural attack. It is, however, still a "weapon". ...or is it? It is wielded as a weapon. But is it treated as a weapon for other things? What about Greater Magic Weapon? We covered whether it can be treated as a weapon for feats (I think they can) but what about other effects? Say you were some funky combination of Paladin and Ectoplasmatist: could you use your Divine Bond on your Lashes? Likewise what about a Magus using his Arcane Pool to enhance his weapon? Hell... for that matter could a Bladebound Magus make his Lashes an intelligent Black Blade? It could certainly make for an interesting concept!

These questions all really need to be answered before I can effectively make a build. I think I'm going to post the questions separately in the rules forum. But I am also looking for build advice particularly in the following areas:
How to pick up some of these as bonus feats with minimal dippage.
How to enhance the attacks.
Itemization and gear for such a build.

Please let me know what you think about my Gun Juggler build:

Str 9
Dex 16 (+2)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 12

Gunslinger = normal Gunslinger
Bard = Juggler
Monk = Far Strike Monk
Alchemist = Grenadier

Gunslinger 1
Deeds: Deadeye, Gunslinger's Dodge, Quick Clear, Grit, Gunsmithing, Two-Weapon Fighting (human), Deadly Aim (1st)
Bard 1
Fast Reactions: Deflect Arrows (bonus), Bardic Performance, Cantrips, Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1
Bard 2
Combat Juggling, Evasion, Point-Blank Shot (3rd)
Monk 1
Flurry of Blows, Precise Shot (bonus), Fast Thrower: Quick Draw (bonus), Unarmed Strike (bonus)
Gunslinger 2
Nimble +1, Rapid Shot (5th)
Gunslinger 3
Deeds: Gunslinger's Initiative, Pistol Whip, Utility Shot
Gunslinger 4
Weapon Focus (bonus), Empty Quiver Style (7th)
Gunslinger 5
Gun Training 1
Alchemist 1
Alchemy, Bomb 1d6, Extra Bombs (bonus), Mutagen, Throw Anything, Stabbing Shot (9th)
Alchemist 2
Discovery: Explosive Bomb, Alchemical Weapon, Precise Bombs (bonus)
Monk 2
Evasion, Far Shot (bonus), Empty Quiver Flexibility (11th)
Gunslinger 6
Nimble +2

Important Items:
Handy Haversack
Gunman's Duster

This is for PFS play.

So the idea here is to be able to juggle guns to help with reloading and be able to throw other things when not shooting guns. This would allow him to two weapon fight with guns and still be able to reload. The rest of the build also lends itself well to throwing weapons.

I considered taking out the Alchemist levels and extra Monk level and just going with more Gunslinger. It would still give him the same amount of feats except Precise Bombs and Throw Anything (which would be less important though still good) and more BAB, Deeds and Gun Training 2. Regarding the Far Strike Monk level it is there for efficiency. It gets me 2 feats for one level. It also helps pick up some nice saves, allows me to go unarmored cutting out the cost of armor and making that Gunman's Duster that much more desirable. It also gives me Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat for when I'm out of weapons or cannot bring them with me. Flurry of Throws pretty much goes to waste as it doesn't stack with Two-Weapon Fighting or work with Guns at all. It is honestly hard to imagine why most Gunslingers DON'T go with a level of Far Strike Monk. A second level of Monk adds to saves again and gives another bonus feat while picking up another BAB.

I also considered taking MORE levels of Alchemist. That would give me the ability to get to Explosive Missile and more higher level extracts. Explosive Missile is very thematic and it works well with the build. The down side is that it would give less total feats which I am already short on.

I also also considered going with some levels of Fighter to get more feats and Weapon Training (+Gloves of Dueling).

There are some other feats that are missing here that I would have really have liked to work in. Rapid Reload would have been good to pick up but I can't find where to fit it in at. I understand how good it is but I also figure I could buy multiple guns and juggle them. I also could just throw things when I am finished with the bullets in one gun. I figure with the extra "hand" I will be able to use Pepperboxes without trouble. I think most GMs would allow me to reload two of them at once, even.

Improved Two Weapon Fighting is also something I regret not being able to fit in. Since the whole idea of the build is around firing as many guns as many times as possible it would be great. Sadly, I'm not sure where I would fit it.

Also, there is the third feat in the Empty Quiver line: Empty Quiver Flurry. This could solve the reloading issue. Again, not sure what I could skip to get it in any sooner.

Not sure how to solve these issues but if I could then the build would be perfect. Alas, I cannot have it all.

A couple of questions I had was exactly how far does Empty Quiver Flexibility go? Weapon Focus should apply. What about Gun Training? Deadly Aim should work with it right?


So I have been enchanted with this Prestige Class since I first saw it but due to it being printed in an early Paizo product it is not legal for PFS play. It is too bad too because it is filled with campaign world based flavor and feel that it would add a lot to the PFS community. Also with some of the new books coming out that have bolstered Starknife and thrown weapon builds in general you could actually have an effective character out of the deal too.

Any chance this might get reprinted in a PFS legal source?

Elven Eldritch Guardian

The Build:

Str 12
Dex 16 (+2)
Con 15 (-2)
Int 8 (+2)
Wis 13
Cha 10

Fighter levels are all Eldritch Guardian
Witch is Beast Bonded Witch

Fighter 1
Familiar, Point-blank Shot (1st)
Fighter 2
Share Training, Steel Will
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Precise Shot (3rd)
Fighter 4
Deadly Aim (Fighter 4)
Fighter 5
Weapon Training, Improved Familiar (5th)
Fighter 6
Steel Will +2, Weapon Focus: Longbow (Fighter 6)
Fighter 7
Armor Training, Weapon Specialization: Longbow (7th)
Fighter 8
Rapid Shot (Fighter 8)
Fighter 9
Weapon Training, Point Blank Master(9th)
Fighter 10
Steel Will +3, Snap Shot (Fighter 10)
Witch 1
Cantrips, Hex: Ward, Patron Spells, Witch's Familiar, Transfer Feats, Extra Item Slot (11th)
Witch 2
Hex: Feral Speech

This is for PFS play.

The concept is for a very fey/sylvan elf with a brownie familiar who is also very fighty. I was considering making them both switch hitters as I can make them both fairly durable, but I couldn't afford to get the feats for any of the X Grace feats and still be passable at archery. I should be able to hook that Brownie up with some pimp gear. Mithril Chain Shirt will go a long way for the little guy. And with DR 5/Cold Iron and some passable HP due to Fighter HD with a decent Con (improved later with a belt) he should even be able to take a hit (or more likely not get hit).

By 8th level the Brownie will be doing 1d4+6 damage and will be getting 3 attacks per turn. That is before item bonuses or buffs. Most of the build speaks for itself aside from the last couple of levels. I want to be able to give the Brownie some Greater Bracers of Archery and the only way that I can figure to give him a feat is with the Beast Bonded Witch archetype. Its not so bad as by that level I will already have all the BAB that I need. The few spells will be nice. Ward is basically equivalent to Extra Item Slot for a +2 Ring of Protection and +2 Cloak of Resistance. And I get to give him an Item slot for the bracers. Feral Speech is also very in theme.

Suggestions? What traits would you take?


So lets say I have a character that has Eldritch Guardian levels and gets Improved Familiar to obtain an Brownie Familiar.* What kind of gear could this Familiar use?

*I understand it is a point of contention whether an Eldritch Guardian qualifies or not...:
For the sake of argument lets just say that this character is able to meet the requirements through whatever means necessary. If he has to take a number of Wizard levels to qualify for Improved Familiar that doesn't prevent him from also having Eldritch Guardian levels.

Could he use a bow and arrows? (using all the combat feats the character has thanks to Eldritch Guardian)
Wonderous Items?

I found this but it doesn't really answer the question.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The simple question is: do these feats work together?

Your swift strikes ward off enemies attacking nearby allies.

Prerequisite: Combat reflexes.

Benefit: When an adjacent ally is attacked, you may use an attack of opportunity to attempt the aid another action to improve your ally’s AC. You may not use the aid another action to improve your ally’s attack roll with this attack.

Normal: Aid another is a standard action.

Combat Patrol


You range across the battlefield, dealing with threats wherever they arise.

Prerequisites: Combat reflexes, Mobility, base attack bonus +5.

Benefit: As a full-round action, you may set up a combat patrol, increasing your threatened area by 5 feet for every 5 points of your base attack bonus. Until the beginning of your next turn, you may make attacks of opportunity against any opponent in this threatened area that provokes attacks of opportunity. You may move as part of these attacks, provided your total movement before your next turn does not exceed your speed. Any movement you make provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

So, can a character who has both feats set up a Combat Patrol and if another character who is within that Combat Patrol gets attacked move to a point adjacent to that character and use an AoO to use Bodyguard to increase their AC?

I have read several posts on this combination and have seen a lot of great feedback from Jason Nelson (the creator of Combat Patrol). I have a pretty strong feeling that the answer is "yes" due to the number of people who understand that it works this way, the feedback given by Jason and the fact that the Animal Companion Protector Archetype is given both feats as bonus feats. It seems to me like these are pretty clear indicators that they work with each other but despite all this and the fact that my son has been playing a character that uses this as his primary schtick for over a year with a multitude of GMs all who had a prior understanding of this combination from previous experiences we have ran into our first resistance to this recently.

A PFS GM at our FLGS has stated that they do not believe that they work together. Apparently they are so adamant about this that they are not willing to allow the combo despite other local GM rulings. In fact, unless I read the situation incorrectly it sounds as if they are completely unwilling to GM for the character. Despite this reaction I respect this GM very much and otherwise see very eye to eye with them and would rather avoid this as a topic of contention.

Unfortunately, I do not understand their perspective on this topic well enough to provide a counter point on this topic. As I know this GM frequents these boards hopefully they might drop by and explain their perspective. I am not trying to be dismissive of their perspective, I just don't understand it well enough to restate it in any way that would do it justice.


The basic questions is whether or not I can purchase items that come in separate pieces piecemeal or not in Pathfinder Society.

Examples include things like the Strand of Prayer Beads. If I have a character that just wants to get the Bead of Karma and doesn't want the Bead of Smiting could he purchase a Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed at a price discounted by the value of the Bead of Smiting (16,800gp) for a total of 29,000gp?

Or what if I were to purchase a Noble's Vigilant Pillbox and then then swallow one of the pearls? Could I then replace one of the pearls at the cost of the pearl itself? If not but I wanted to replace the pearl would I have to sell the entire pillbox back at half price (reduced by the cost of the swallowed pearl) and then buy a new one at full price?

I am sure there are other items that are much akin to this situation but these are the two that I am most interested in.

Can one have a weapon made out of two special materials? As an example:
Can I have a Cold Iron and Wyroot Longspear with the spear head being made out of Cold Iron and the haft being made out of Wyroot?

What about a Mithrial bladed Bardiche with a Darkwood haft?

Living Steel and Whipwood Ranseur?

Darkwood and Cold Iron Tetsubo?

If this is allowed then do you pay the full price for both materials?

So... now that Jingasa is gone... *sigh*

To be fair it likely was too cheap. But it is a completely different item now. I don't want to spend a bunch of time complaining about the change as it will do no good. In an effort to look forward constructively my most current concern is where to get a luck bonus to AC from now?

I have a $10 gift card that I am unable to redeem that I won at a recent convention. Worse yet, the phone number that is listed on the gift certificate is not a valid phone number. The phone number is 1 425 250 0080.

Please contact me via messaging and I can give the gift card claim code.

Alright, so I am considering the following build for PFS:


Phalanx Soldier Fighter
Sohei Monk

Fighter 1
Stand Firm, Endurance (bonus), Diehard (1st)
Monk 1
Flurry of Blows, Devoted Guardian, Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Dodge (bonus)
Monk 2
Evasion, Combat Reflexes (bonus), Power Attack (3rd)
Fighter 2
Unflinching, Crane Style (Fighter 2)
Fighter 3
Phalanx Fighting, Iron Will (5th)
Fighter 4
Stalwart (Fighter 4)
Living Monolith 1
Soul Stone, Ka Stone, Toughness (bonus), Steel Soul (7th)
Living Monolith 2
Stone Blood
Living Monolith 3
Fortified Flesh (DR 1/-, 10% Fortification), Vital Strike (9th)
Living Monolith 4
Stability, Tombsight
Living Monolith 5
Fortified Flesh (DR 2/-, 20% Fortification, Immune to Disease), Greater Ka Stone, Improved Critical (11th)
Living Monolith 6
Attunement to Stone
Living Monolith 7
Summon Sphinx, Improved Stalwart (13th)

I was also considering the possibility of going with Unarmed Fighter instead as it would remove the need to go Monk. But I found by going 2 levels of Monk I pick up some nice abilities, especially with Sohei. I get to flurry in armor (officially), I pick up an extra feat that I can use for a much needed Combat Reflexes and get to snag Evasion. There is the Devoted Guardian which matches both in theme and in it's awesome ability to allow me to always act in the surprise round. That should be nice with swift action Enlarge Persons. The bonus on initiative doesn't hurt either. The +3 bonus on all saves is also tasty. The small loss of hit points and a single point of BAB is the only downfalls.

So the idea is to combine a few concepts into one character.

I wanted to be a Dwarf from Qadira and have the whole Egyptian vibe going on. Kinda like Stargate but less tech, more magic. He will be a dark skinned dwarf with stony brown hair and beard. I really want the character to epitomize Dwarfyness, Qadiran, Scarab Sages, Sphinxyness, stoneyness, Guardianishness, durability, steadfastness, etc. (these are all real words, I assure you.)

I had considered the following build but didn't like the lack of shield:

Fighter 1
Endurance (bonus), Diehard (bonus), Power Attack (1st)
Monk 1
Flurry of Blows, Devoted Guardian, Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus), Dodge (bonus)
Monk 2
Evasion, Combat Reflexes (bonus), Iron Will (3rd)
Fighter 2
Unflinching, Crane Style (Fighter 2)
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Steel Soul (5th)
Fighter 4
Stalwart (Fighter 4)
Living Monolith 1
Soul Stone, Ka Stone, Toughness (bonus), Pushing Assault (7th)
Living Monolith 2
Stone Blood
Living Monolith 3
Fortified Flesh (DR 1/-, 10% Fortification), Vital Strike (9th)
Living Monolith 4
Stability, Tombsight
Living Monolith 5
Fortified Flesh (DR 2/-, 20% Fortification, Immune to Disease), Greater Ka Stone, Improved Critical (11th)
Living Monolith 6
Attunement to Stone
Living Monolith 7
Summon Sphinx, Improved Stalwart (13th)

The Dwarven Longhammer is more fitting and I would love to use it rather than a Lucern Hammer. I do not believe it is officially considered a polearm, though, even though it has reach. It isn't in the polearm Fighter Weapon Group.

In either build I will be going with the following:
Craftsman in place of Greed
Giant Hunter in place of Hatred

Traits: 2 of the following - probably the first 2.
Defender of the Society
Glory of Old
Temple Guard

I definitely will be going with Stoneplate and likely a Boulder Helmet for my adjacent attacks. Outside of that I'm not sure what to get for gear. Any suggestions are welcome. Build opinions as well.

With any luck maybe I will one day see this character through to 16th level and become immortal. That should make all the Highlander references that I plan on making with the character make sense. ;)

I heard somewhere that Paizo was considering changing the races that give bouses like this somewhere but can't remember where. I had thought it was a thread somewhere on these boards but couldn't find it when I searched back through my recent threads. Does anyone know where this might have been? Is there anywhere I could show my support of this potential change?

My perspective, by the way, is that 1/2 was too powerful for many of these abilities but 1/6 is so restrictive that I doubt anyone would take that option over giving up 6 hit points. I wonder if anyone actually disagrees with that view point as I have discussed it with several people IRL and have yet to hear a different opinion expressed. I think the pendulum has swung too far to the other side on this one.

A reasonable compromise seems like it would be 1/4. Or does anyone think that is still too powerful?

I am sorta formulating an idea in my head... let me get some of this stuff out and see if I run across any speed bumps.

Alright, so... how many of these things can work together?:

Underground Chemist Rogue Archetype
The relevant parts:

Chemical Weapons (Ex)

At 2nd level, an underground chemist is able to retrieve an alchemical item as if drawing a weapon. She adds her Intelligence modifier to damage dealt with splash weapons, including any splash damage. She adds 1/2 her level to Craft (alchemy) checks.

This ability replaces evasion.
Precise Splash Weapons (Ex)

At 4th level, an underground chemist can deal sneak attack damage with splash weapons. The attack must be her first attack that round, qualify for dealing sneak attack damage (such as against a flat-footed target), and be directed at a creature rather than a square.

This ability replaces the rogue talent gained at 4th level.

Bomber Rogue Talent

Bomber (Su)

Benefit: A rogue with this talent can make a number of bombs per day equal to her Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). These bombs act as alchemist's bombs, except they deal damage equal to the damage dealt by the rogue's sneak attack (the rogue doesn't add her Intelligence modifier to this damage).

Grenadier Alchemist Archetype

Martial Weapon Proficiency

At 1st level, a grenadier picks one martial weapon to become proficient in the use of.

This ability replaces Brew Potion.
Alchemical Weapon (Su)

At 2nd level, a grenadier can infuse a weapon or piece of ammunition with a single harmful alchemical liquid or powder, such as alchemist’s fire or sneezing powder, as a move action. This action consumes the alchemical item, but transfers its effect to the weapon in question.

The alchemical item takes full effect on the next creature struck by the weapon, but does not splash, spread, or otherwise affect additional targets. Any extra damage added is treated like bonus dice of damage, and is not doubled on a critical hit. The alchemical treatment causes no harm to the weapon treated, and wears off 1 minute after application if no blow is struck. At 6th level, a grenadier can use her alchemical weapon ability as a swift action. At 15th level, this ability becomes a free action.

This ability replaces poison resistance.
Precise Bombs (Ex)

At 2nd level, a grenadier gains the precise bombs alchemist discovery as a bonus discovery.

This ability replaces poison use.

Explosive Missile Discovery

Explosive Missile

Prerequisite: Alchemist 4

Benefit: As a standard action, the alchemist can infuse a single arrow, crossbow bolt, or one-handed firearm bullet with the power of his bomb, load the ammunition, and shoot the ranged weapon. He must be proficient with the weapon in order to accomplish this. When the infused ammunition hits its target, it deals damage normally and detonates as if the alchemist had thrown the bomb at the target. If the explosive missile misses, it does not detonate.

Hybridization Funnel

Hybridization Funnel

Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Weight 2 lbs.
Slot none; Price 200 gp

This two-spouted funnel is used to safely mix two alchemical splash weapons into a single flask. Using the vial requires 10 minutes and a DC 25 Craft (alchemy) check; a half-elf has a +5 bonus on this check. Failing the check means both splash weapon are destroyed. Success means the two materials are safely mixed into one vial that is the same volume as a normal splash weapon vial; when thrown as a splash weapon, the mixture has the effects of both component substances and creatures are affected as if hit by both. The mixture becomes inert after 24 hours. Only liquids may be mixed with the funnel. The bearer can use it to mix an alchemical splash weapon with either holy water or unholy water, but the Craft (alchemy) DC increases to 30; half-elves still get the +5 bonus on this check. The funnel does not work on potions, elixirs, extracts, or other materials. Mixing a substance with a similar or identical substance (such as alchemist's fire with alchemist's fire) has no effect. A mixture cannot be combined with another mixture.

If the bomb from Grenadier is delivered with an attack qualifying as a Sneak Attack does it do the Bomb Damage Plus the Sneak Attack damage? all targets hit?

As a separate yet related question: Explosive Missile says "one-handed firearm bullet". Can you fire a one-handed firearm bullet from a Sling?

If I get a positive on all the above then my next questions will be regarding Slipslinger Bombardment.

Is there any legal way to combine these two?

Specifically I would like to get a Pseudodragon Familiar that has the Figment Archetype.

I had seen the Witch's Animal Patron with Patron Familiar be suggested as a way to gain Speak with Animals of it's Kind as an ability to the Familiar so that the Improved Familiar then has it to give up. But the Figment specifically discludes Witches being allowed to use them so I do not see that as working.


I found this a bit odd. In the Pathfinder Society FAQ it asks:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?


It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items. An animal companion could benefit from an item with a continuous magical effect like an amulet of natural armor if its master equipped the item for the animal companion. Animal companions of any type may not use manufactured weapons.

Animal companions are also limited by their individual anatomies. In Pathfinder Society Organized Play, animal companions always have access to barding and neck-slot items so long as they have the anatomy. For example, a horse and pig can always have access to barding and neck-slot items. A snake does not have access to either. However, an item called out to be used by a specific animal is usable by that animal regardless of slot.

Additionally, animal companions have access to magical item slots, in addition to barding and neck, as listed on the inside front cover of the Animal Archive so long as they select the Extra Item Slot feat. The Animal Magic Item Slots table found in Animal Archive is not a legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy). Second, access to specific magic item slots may be granted at a later date by another legal source. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.

An animal or familiar has to have an intelligence of 3+ to activate an ioun stone. If the animal or familiar has less than a 3 intelligence, they may not activate an ioun stone.

The brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars, granted by the Improved Familiar feat, use the Biped (hands) section of the chart. The carbuncle and voidworm protean, familiars granted by the Improved Familiar feat, uses the Serpentine section of the chart. If you do not own a copy of the Animal Archive, your animal companion may only use barding and neck-slot items.

The Additional Resources state:

...the improved familiars on pages 28–29 and the inside back cover are legal for play, except augur kyton, beheaded, ceru, coral capuchin, doru div, dweomercat cub, faerie dragon

So the Faerie Dragon isn't even legal for play.*

*the exception:
I know that there is a specific boon that allows you to gain the ability to get one.

Pseudodragon is, however, allowed.

Additional Resources under Bestiary wrote:
Familiars: all familiars listed on pages 131-133, and imp, pseudodragon, quasit

Is it possible that the first quoted bit actually meant to be referring to Pseudodragons? I am left a bit confused about the differences between Pseudodragons and Faerie Dragons and Wand use. Why would there be something allowing a specific restriction be lifted for a familiar that isn't normally even allowed in PFS play? Especially while there is something remarkably similar that IS allowed in PFS play and they don't get the nod for Wand use?

I am baffled. Can someone please offer a bit of clarification?


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I have read the sticky thread above regarding upgrading your gear in PFS. It covers alot and is helpful. However my question is not covered there. I apologize if is answered elsewhere and I have missed it.

Is one able to upgrade a Belt of Giant Strength to a Belt of Thunderous Charging?

So here is my build:



Str 15-2
Dex 16+2
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 13+2

All Fighter levels are Weapon Master Fighter
All Monk levels are Weapon Adept

Fighter 1
Weapon Focus: Shuriken (Fighter 1), Point Blank Shot (1st)
Ninja 1
Poison Use, Sneak Attack 1d6
Ninja 2
Ki Pool, Ninja Trick: Flurry of Stars, Startoss Style (3rd)
Fighter 2
Weapon Guard, Rapid Shot (Fighter 2)
Monk 1
Flurry of Blows, Improved Unarmed Strike, Perfect Strike, Deflect Arrows (Monk 1), Startoss Comet (5th)
Monk 2
Weapon Focus (bonus, retrain to Precise Shot), Dodge (Monk 2)
Fighter 3
Weapon Training +1, Startoss Shower (7th)
Fighter 4
Weapon Specialization: Shuriken (Fighter 4)
Fighter 5
Reliable Strike, Deadly Aim (9th)
Fighter 6
(Fighter 6)
Fighter 7
Weapon Training +2, (11th)
Fighter 8
(Fighter 8)

FYI - This character is based loosely on Kennen from League of Legends fame. The only weapon the character will use outside of Shuriken is a single Star Knife. Shuriken I plan on being the staple for this character, though.

There weren't any Alternate Racial Traits that I found very tantalizing besides Fleet of Foot. I have no idea what Traits I'm going to use.

At 10th level this is what his attack routine will look like when spending 2 points of Ki:

(+8 BAB, +1 Weapon Focus, +3 Weapon Training, +1 Small Size, +6 Dex, +1 Masterwork, -2 Flurry of Blows, -2 Rapid Shot, -2 Flurry of Stars, -3 Deadly Aim)

So, 7 attacks. Those bonuses are not considering any magic items except the Gloves of Dueling and a +4 Dex belt. Both should easily be affordable by that level. There isn't a lot more that can add to the Shuriken attacks without getting magical Shurikens which is a waste. I could grab a Wand (or potions) of Greater Magic Weapon I suppose and that might help some.

Damage will look like the following:
17 (1 base weapon damage, +6 Deadly Aim, +2 Weapon Specialization, +6Startoss Style, +2 Str)

So 17 damage per hit. If I could get all attacks to hit in the full attack above (doubtful as those are pretty low bonuses) then the damage would be 119 with absolutely no variation as no dice get rolled for damage. If I add in a Wand of Flame Arrow to enchant that ammo it ups the average damage to 143.5.

Yeah, I'm not actually very pleased with the build to be honest. I was hoping it would be a fair amount more effective. Hopefully I'm missing some no brainer things to help. I am fine with playing a build if it isn't so much effective but is still fun. The build could still make a good scout.

I have the last 3 feats unpicked as I'm not sure what to get. I was considering a lot of things. Maybe Far Shot and Clustered Shots? I considered going with Eldritch Heritage: Shadow feats because that can be fun on a Ninja type character. Or maybe going with Extra Rogue Talent to pick up some Ninja Tricks like Shadow Clone and Vanishing Trick. Then again that is going to cut into my Ki Pool which I intend on spending mainly on Flurry of Stars. I suppose I could pick up Extra Ki but that doesn't really seem like a wise investment especially when I can just get a Wand of Mirror Image.

I really was hoping to up that damage more. That is the biggest let down of the build. There are some items that can help to up the damage that I can think of. The Robe of Stars is going to be a must have item. Any spells that buff ammo will be helpful.

I can't think of much more that would help. Anyone have any ideas?

So since the Weapon Masters handbook is not only out but legal for play in PFS I thought I would post my build concept and see what you all thought and if it looks fairly viable.

The Build:

Str 16-2
Dex 13+2
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 8+2

Halfling with Warslinger trait

Fighter 1
Weapon Focus: Sling (1st), Slipslinger Style (Fighter 1)
Fighter 2
Bravery +1, Point-Blank Shot (Fighter 2)
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Rapid Shot (3rd)
Fighter 4
Power Attack (4th)
Fighter 5
Deadly Aim (5th)
Alchemist 1
Throw Anything (bonus)
Alchemist 2
Slipslinger Grenadier (7th)
Fighter 6
Bravery +2, Quick Draw (Fighter 6)
Fighter 7
Armor Training, Slipslinger Bombardment
Fighter 8
Weapon Specialization (Fighter 8)
Fighter 9
Weapon Training, Greater Weapon Focus (9th)
Fighter 10
Bravery +3, Arc Slinger (Fighter 10)

Purity of Faith
Defender of the Society

I want both Weapon Training and Armor Training. Weapon Training because I will have only one weapon I ever use so it just makes sense especially with Gloves of Dueling. Armor Training as I will be going deep into Fighter so Mithral Full Plate will really be the best armor for him.

I don't plan on ever using Alchemist Bombs and my Fort saves should be stellar so I was planning on going Vivisectionist/Trap Breaker. Poison is nice but expensive and difficult to use in PFS so I don't mind losing that.

Equipment of choice will be a Darkwood Slingstaff, Mithral Full Plate (Celestial Full Plate doesn't exist in PFS) and a Mithral Buckler. I am likely going to seek out getting a wand of Flame Arrow and once I get into Alchemist I will be pumping out the Alchemical Ammo. I'll also carry a variety of stone types for overcoming DR. Boots of Striding and Springing will be a high priority item as well. As long as my party doesn't run in front of me though, I should have no issue pulling enemies to my party and it isn't even a priority to run up to engage with the character but he can excel in both roles.

Outside of that I don't have much but I think everything else should fall into place fairly naturally. His AC should be crazy high for when he does engage in melee. His ranged DPR should be well enough to attract some attention.

What do you think? Any suggestions?

I have been thinking about this topic a lot recently due an Aasimar character I have that took the Celestial Servant feat. She has a Celestial horse and the feat actually changes it's type to Magical Beast.

So the Knowledge skill rules tell us that we use Knowledge: Arcana to identify Magical Beasts. It does seem a bit odd in this circumstance as you would think a Celestial critter would be identified with Knowledge: Planes but such is not the case.

So, does that mean it is no longer identifiable as a horse? I am torn on this. I know the rules say that things are identifiable by their type. So by RAW I would think it really isn't identifiable as a horse anymore because it isn't even an animal.

I could see a Commoner with a rank in Knowledge: Nature saying, "Nope. Definitely not a horse er even an animal. See the light comin outta it's nostrils and from behind it's eyes? Yep, that thar critter ain't natural. Don't know what it is but it certainly aint no horse."

I could also see the reverse. Take a Dwarf Zombie as an example. It is no longer identified with Knowledge: Local. It is identified with Knowledge: Religion. But are you telling me that when you see a stocky humanoid Zombie with a long beard that it is unreasonable to make a Knowledge: Local check to know that it was once a Dwarf?

There is obviously some gray area here. We all know about the Vampires that like to masquerade as ... not Vampires. If it were possible to know that they definitely are no longer identifiable as a humanoid because they don't ping on your Knowledge: Local meter anymore then how do they do this? Same goes for any number of other fantasy races trying to pass themselves off as human. Like Aasimar, Tiefling, Undine or any of the other elemental races.

I know that the Disguise skill exists for when you want your X to look like a Y. But what if you aren't trying to disguise anything and are just trying to gauge NPC reactions? In other words: would I need to use disguise on my Celestial horse to avoid people from knowing it is Celestial if I don't want them to? What if I DO want it to look different? I know it must look somewhat different or it wouldn't require a different Knowledge skill to identify it.

Please keep in mind that my particular conundrum is with a PFS character. While I am interested in personal opinions on this topic I would appreciate it if you tagging which things you are saying is your personal opinion on how you would rule on something and which you believe is the RAW interpretation and why.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

First I have to pay tribute where tribute is due. This is originally (as far as I know) a Jiggy concept.

This was what he said for the build concept:


• Court Bard gets the opposite of Inspire Courage, using performance to cause enemies to take penalties to attack/damage. Let's say he's using Perform (oratory), so basically he tells people how much they suck, and they get thrown off their game.
• Then he hits 2nd level and picks up Versatile Performance, letting him use Perform (oratory) in place of Diplomacy and Sense Motive. Now he can use Antagonize (via Perform) to tell people how much they suck, and they're preoccupied to the point of an additional -2 against everyone else (-3 total).
• Then you pick up Snake Style, letting you use an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check and treat the result as your AC against one attack. But you have Versatile Performance, so you're using Perform (oratory) instead. So when someone does attack you, you tell them how much they suck, and they blow it and miss.
So the sum total is this: you start telling everyone how much they suck, and they're all messed up. Then you single out one guy to inform of his mother's disappointment in him, and he becomes to preoccupied to attack anyone effectively but you. But then when he does attack you, you mock him until his sobs throw his aim off.
A**hattery for fun and profit! ;)

I really like the idea of this build but am wondering how I would go about building it. And honestly past level 3 I am a bit lost on which way to go with it.

I wonder if anyone has tried anything like this before and how they went about it. One concern is how to pick up Snake Style without having to spend a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike. Bards don't get bonus feats and I had some thoughts of other feats I was considering anyway.

The concept also lacks what the character can do in combat after they have got done making fun of everyone and the baddy gets up in their face. Yeah, they can sit there and not get hit but how can they actively contribute to victory? I get that this isn't their primary role but I was considering some things. The concept has a lot of potential as just buffing and debuffing.

Here are some feats I was considering:
Bodyguard (which requires Combat Reflexes)
Arcane Strike +Gloves of Arcane Striking
Swift Aid (Ugh... requires Combat Expertise)
...the rest of the Snake Style feats
Snake Style seems like it would work well with the Whip, so... the Whip Mastery feats
And... if going Whip there are always the Trip line of feats.

Yeah, that is a lot of feats so I guess I should stop there. I mean... Cornugon Smash + Shatter Defenses would be great for this too but that is a crap ton of feats. I don't even know how combat focused I want to make the guy. Like I said, a bit lost past 3rd level.

What do you guys think?

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