Nonmagical armor buffed with spells on animal companions or familiar without the slot?


Pathfinder Society


So, according to the recent blog post here: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljwv?A-Few-More-Answers

Animal Companions and Familiar can only wear magic armor (barding), if they use the Extra Item Slot (armor) feat. They can still wear nonmagical armor if they are they are one of the listed types that can wear armor without the feat. This is a PFS specific rule that differs from how it works in other Pathfinder games.

My question is if it is legal in PFS to cast Magic Vestment or similar spells on armor worn by an animal companion or familiar that does not have Extra Item Slot (armor).

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No.

Animal companions come with the barding slot."An animal companion has access to the armor and neck magic item slots automatically, as long as its body shape is eligible for these slots."

Familiars do not.

By default, familiars do not have any magic item slots, but they can unlock magic item slots associated with their respective body shape.

I do not believe that they are going to make a distinction between magical and mundane slots.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

No.

Animal companions come with the barding slot."An animal companion has access to the armor and neck magic item slots automatically, as long as its body shape is eligible for these slots."

Familiars do not.

By default, familiars do not have any magic item slots, but they can unlock magic item slots associated with their respective body shape.

I do not believe that they are going to make a distinction between magical and mundane slots.

Well then that means you can no longer put even a simple saddle on your horse unless you've taken the feat for that slot.

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For saddles i think they're trying to go with "your body needs a saddle slot or you can't put a saddle on it"

Scarab Sages 5/5

Linda clarified in a previous thread, that if the creature has an armor or saddle slot available based on body type, they can wear mundane versions without taking a feat.

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Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:


If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

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Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:


If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

... they are either making this incredibly weird or explaining it very poorly.

Full suit of plate armor on a weasel: no problem

Enchant it... ERKS! It won't go on....

???

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:


If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

... they are either making this incredibly weird or explaining it very poorly.

Full suit of plate armor on a weasel: no problem

Enchant it... ERKS! It won't go on....

???

I agree, hence me asking if she meant to say that or if it was only taking about animal companions.

There seems to be a decent chance that she didn't mean it. I asked it along with the question of if animals without the saddle slot can wear mundane saddles and her response was that the leadership would need to discuss that part more. Maybe she meant both, maybe she was just talking about the saddle question needing more time.


Thomas Hutchins wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:


If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

... they are either making this incredibly weird or explaining it very poorly.

Full suit of plate armor on a weasel: no problem

Enchant it... ERKS! It won't go on....

???

I agree, hence me asking if she meant to say that or if it was only taking about animal companions.

There seems to be a decent chance that she didn't mean it. I asked it along with the question of if animals without the saddle slot can wear mundane saddles and her response was that the leadership would need to discuss that part more. Maybe she meant both, maybe she was just talking about the saddle question needing more time.

"If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot" seems like a pretty clear-cut answer to me.


Which brings me back to my original question. If you have a familiar capable of wearing armor but who hasn't taken the item slot feat, is it illegal in PFS to cast magic vestment on their mundane armor?

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Michael Haneline wrote:
Which brings me back to my original question. If you have a familiar capable of wearing armor but who hasn't taken the item slot feat, is it illegal in PFS to cast magic vestment on their mundane armor?

Lets give that answer time to percolate a little bit before building off of it.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Michael Haneline wrote:
Which brings me back to my original question. If you have a familiar capable of wearing armor but who hasn't taken the item slot feat, is it illegal in PFS to cast magic vestment on their mundane armor?
Lets give that answer time to percolate a little bit before building off of it.

Alright. Also, in response to your earlier post:

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Linda Zayas-Palmer wrote:


If you have a saddle or armor slot, you can definitely wear mundane saddles or armor without taking Extra Item Slot

link

This seems to be saying that familiars with an armor slot can wear non magic armor

... they are either making this incredibly weird or explaining it very poorly.

Full suit of plate armor on a weasel: no problem

Enchant it... ERKS! It won't go on....

???

I figured it'd be more like a PC trying to wear a second magic necklace or a third magic ring. You can put it on, it's magical properties just don't activate.

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Which might be possible, but the point of magical item slots on critters was always that they lacked the anatomy for the thing to go on and thats why they couldn't wear them. Snakes can't just not inherently connect with the orthographical oneness of magical armor you just can't get armor on a snake.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Which might be possible, but the point of magical item slots on critters was always that they lacked the anatomy for the thing to go on and thats why they couldn't wear them. Snakes can't just not inherently connect with the orthographical oneness of magical armor you just can't get armor on a snake.

That WAS the point, but PFS obviously has a different idea in mind with only letting ACs and familiars use magic items they have an item slot feat for. I don't like it either, but whatever, I'm just trying to understand what is and is not allowed now.

ACs already felt kind of undesirable to me due to the number of GMs I've seen in the short time I've played PFS who control ACs in a way clearly engineered to get them killed - moving them in a manner designed to provoke attack of opportunities from as many enemies as possible, refusing to make AC trained in the acrobatics skill attempt acrobatics checks to avoid attacks because "only circus animals tumble", and generally using the guideline that GMs should control ACs to run ACs in the most suicidal manner they can given their handler's order. Yet I get the impression that PFS leadership still regards them as hugely unbalanced 2nd characters for the players, which is why they slap these extra restrictions on them.

Scarab Sages 4/5

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Michael - I think what you've experienced is a rarity. I've seen many animal companions at tables, and I've never seen a GM take control of them. Generally, the player is allowed to control them. More often than not, the GM doesn't even ask about whether or not the AC has the appropriate tricks to do what the player is having it do. That's changed a little bit in the last few years since the blog detailing how they work, but for the most part, they are treated like 2nd characters.

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Michael Haneline wrote:


That WAS the point, but PFS obviously has a different idea in mind with only letting ACs and familiars use magic items they have an item slot feat for. I don't like it either, but whatever, I'm just trying to understand what is and is not allowed now.

There's two totally different things going on here. Lets not combine them.

One is that they look like they're trying to change how slots work on animal companions for the new season. As with any time they change the rules they will change the rule, they will clarify the change, then clarify the clarification , and then clarify the clarification to the... you get the idea. This will bork a few things in the process.

So, right now, I don't think anyone has any idea how familiars are going to work with armor in a month. Its not deliberate its just what happens when there's a big rules change.

Hating AC's must be a local/regional thing. I don't think I've ever seen that

3/5 5/55/55/55/5 *** Contributor

Ferious Thune wrote:
Michael - I think what you've experienced is a rarity. I've seen many animal companions at tables, and I've never seen a GM take control of them. Generally, the player is allowed to control them. More often than not, the GM doesn't even ask about whether or not the AC has the appropriate tricks to do what the player is having it do. That's changed a little bit in the last few years since the blog detailing how they work, but for the most part, they are treated like 2nd characters.

I imagine that there is some pretty strong regional variation on this. My local meta absolutely pushes back on ACs being run as second characters tactically. I've never seen a GM force an AC to go out of its way to provoke attacks of opportunity, but the usual ruling is that that the companion will move in a straight line to the nearest point where it can attack the creature you designated, which may provoke, even if there was a more circuitous path that would not have provoked. And GMS definitely check what tricks you have trained.

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