trischai wrote:
This is all up to you and your GM to provide that. Some GMs prefer railroady adventures, because it's easier to run and, to be honest, some of them do not want to spend hours of their week to craft and build that's out of the book just because one of his players want to do something way off the scope of the adventure. Still, there are some of us (GMs) that gives the players the ability to go full creative with the narrative. I GMed Curse of the Crimson Throne to two different and distinct groups and the adventure came out DRASTICALLY different for both of them, even though I was using an adventure path. By the end of book two, both groups had a total different mindset of Korvosa, it's rulers, it's political biased system, it's flaws and it's economy. One groups became the rebels and formed a resistance within the city sewers, denying any help from important NPCs. They figured things out and I had to adapt a lot. I allowed them to do so, because I saw reason on that. The other group played by the rules while working with the NPCs to change what was wrong with the city. Both groups handled most situations in a very different way and approach. By the end of the adventure path, both groups had different outcomes for their characters. What happened in our game sessions was cannon for both groups, even if they don't know each other. They changed Golarion, but just because I allowed them to do so. Of course, it does require more working and writing. The fifth book didn't work at all for one group so I never ran it. I had to adapt and learn with them, which made me step up in my GM skills and waste way more time than intended preparing the sessions, but it was all worth it.
Bardarok wrote:
I had the same experience. I ordered the playtest books from the Brazilian Amazon and I received them two days after the release. Considering how long it would take if I ordered directly from Paizo, I thought it was kinda impressive.
Oag wrote: I pre-ordered the Core Rulebook, Bestiary, Lost Omens and GM screen. Paizo is giving $10 off shipping on orders over $100, and since I have the Adventure Path subscription I am getting 15% off all four items. I don't know if that is better than Amazon, but it was enough to make me stick with the manufacturer. Amazon is worth for those who live abroad. It's hard to beat their shipping costs and delivery times. I'd subscribe in no time if they confirm the free pdfs, that would cover Paizo's shipping costs.
Edge93 wrote: The rules may provide us a lot of flavor to work with, but the fact is their job is first and... I don't like the perspective of "if you don't like a CLASS FEATURE, change it as GM to suit what you believe it's the best", specially when we're talking about the Core Rulebook only. I understand when subsystems (like hero points) are left behind to suit table preferences, but not class features. Still, I'm a Paizo fan and I'm sure they'll deliver the best game they could've made.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
From what we've seen, the rules are likely: You spend ten minutes praying and you get all your focus points back. Let's set up an example where the party faced three encounters and found a secret room, so they decide to take an hour break. Then, the Champion decides to spend her focus points healing someone with her magic and then spends ten minutes praying to get her focus points back. Neat! Then she spends all her focus points again healing someone else and then the she prays again and regains all her focus points, to spend right after healing someone else. Neat and mechanical. And then the champion prays once again to regain her focus points to do the same thing again. 40 minutes have passed, the champion prayed four different times only because it's mechanically better. The party doesn't even care about the Champion's prayers at this point (she's like a fanatical, tbh). It would be way better if: - Champion prays for an hour. The Champion gets her focus points back and also heals the group X hit points, that can be used the way she wants, to show the mercy of her deity. She can spend her recently recovered focus points to heal someone with Lay on Hands, but she wouldn't have it to smite things up unless another hour is spent. The Champion also has the "Holy Defender" class feature that besides healing, everytime she prays for an hour, it also gives everyone X temporary hit points as a Holy Shield of her deity. - The Wizard studies for an hour. He can reorganize his spell slots, based on the encounters he already had. If he has quick preparation feat, this takes only ten minutes, so he can spend his next 50 minutes as a Scout or writing scrolls. - The Bard plays his flute while everyone is resting. Besides a small heal, the bard also inspires the next skill check any ally would make. - The Fighter uses that hour break to treat everyone's wounds, patching them with mundane healing techniques, the same way he did back in his village. The fighter could use that hour to fix his shield that broke, but instead, he prefers to help his friends. The fighter has a skill feat called "Poison expertise", that lets him end one of treated party member a poison effect in that hour, which is handy. - Oh, what about the Sorcerer? She spends her "hour break" clearing her thoughts and she regains a spell slot or two. Since she's from the draconic bloodline, she can also rest her lungs to make a breath attack again. No dedicated healer were required and everyone has flavor decisions to make in that hour break.
TheGoofyGE3K wrote: What's so game/immersion breaking of spending 10 minutes to perform a prayer that lets a holy warrior heal the wounded person in front of them? Haven't seen the episode yet, but it seems like something that is quite flavorful if played up for flavor When that process can be repeated as long as you like during the day, it's almost easier to assume that everybody will have full HP for most fights and so HP becomes a battle resource - as long as you can rest between the fights, it won't matter that much. Some parties won't have that healing capability, which makes it harder to design encounters and campaigns. Besides that, the Champion becomes an Oprah for healing - YOU GET HEALING, let me pray, NOW YOU GET THE HEALING, let me pray, EVERYONE GETS HEALED, let me pray once more. I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't find it interesting as a story teller. The Stamina / HP of Starfinder would be a better approach imho. I'm a huge fan of giving everyone things to do in their 10 minutes break - I really am. Maybe throughout the levels we'll see more uses of focus points and healing won't matter anymore, but the LOH spam wasn't interesting to watch.
thejeff wrote:
Take Ironfang Invasion as an example. It's all about exploration in wilderness for it's first two books and still you wouldn't make random encounters at every player's step. My problem is not being fully healed at every encounter (even though I consider that a design problem), but the way you make it. It was silly with CLW wands and it's also silly praying for half hour.
Ediwir wrote:
You could actually say the same of 5e as well. Spending hit dices to heal also takes an hour (you only heal by the end of that hour) that can't be interrupted by any activity. Also, long rests only provides half of your hit dices to spend, so it's not smart to spend all of them at once. At streaming, it was a little bit silly Carina praying each 10 minutes to get her focus back to do the same healing as she pleases. I know that in a dungeon she probably wouldn't be able to do that as GMs would make it harder to use, but still, broke the immersion to me. If focus points are based on Charisma and Carina had 18 of it, it means she can heal 24 HP each 10 minutes (6 HP per focus point), enough to heal the whole group in less than an hour. I know, this is how magic works, but most encounters will assume that everyone will be fully healed, which is a perspective I'm not fond of.
I'm not sure how I feel about healing so easily with treat wounds and Lay on Hands on a 10-minutes regular basis, seems powerful at first levels but I'm waiting to see the scale of it. I feel like 5e's style is way more elegant, spending hit dices for that. A limited resource makes hit points valuable and you still don't need a dedicated healer for that. To be honest, HP should be a daily resource, the same way slots are. One of the 1e problems with encounter design was the assumption that everyone would be full HP at all encounters, everytime, because of CLW wands. I thought the designers would try to stay away from that for 2e.
Sorcerer will always be tricky and I'm yet to see a proper use for them besides being the spontaneous arcane caster with scales. Having different spell list is a great move, but the class needs polishing, specially with Quick Preparation around. IMHO, Wizards should be the methodic ones. It's all about studying formulas and magical components. Once you figure it out how the spell works, you can study them over and over again, so it becomes easier for you. You learned it. Sorcerers should be diverse and wild. Indomitable. The same fire ball from Wizard? No sir, the Sorcerer has no formula for that. He just releases it the best way he can. It's magic is unstable, savage, wild like the nature. I'd love that approach. The bloodlines should shape the sorcerer (sometimes even against his will) and bring more with them. Two sorcerers of different bloodlines should share only the class name, but play in two different styles. Sorcerers should be as diverse as the fighter (sword and shield, two-handed swords, two-weapon fightning, bow, crossbow, lance, mounted combat, etc), but with magical approach. I'm all for a 12 HP Fiend Bloodline with some sort of "burn" mechanic attached to it. You can push yourself harder, but at some risk, your magic can consume your own body. I'm all for 6 HP Arcane Bloodline sorcerer that has the "gift" of magic and tries to understand it the best way he can to avoid collateral damage. I'm all for 8 HP Fey bloodline sorcerer that cannot hide it's "feyish" appearance and uses it to be as pretty as exotic, making it good for social interactions, making it sort of a skill-oriented bloodline. I believe it would be fun enough to play any of those bloodlines and it would make the class way different from Wizards. But... ship has already sailed and I'm pretty sure Paizo wouldn't take a step so far away.
jakewell wrote:
Surely will, the same way we have for 1E now. You can check basically every monster stat-block online and every rule/class rules, and it seems like we'll have it for 2e as well at day 1. What you won't find for free is the adventure path itself, which it's more than fair.
Like people said above, the rules will be online at release day. You don't need a huge investment to play the game, Core and Bestiary would already do it for you. You can expect monthly books in the adventure path form. That's Paizo's bread and butter and, well, they need an income to keep the business running. Besides that, you can expect a new bestiary each year, one "lore" book (Player + GM companion) each 3~ months, and a hardcover rulebook (aka splatbooks) each semester, maybe? Do expect a ton of accessories like different GM screens, condition cards, thematic dices and so on.
My problem is not moving on from what we had. I do find it silly that elves takes so much time to grow up, but it made sense with the whole Forlorn thing - the idea of seeing your friends grow up, marry, have children and die at the same time the elf is still a child, physically and emotionally. I'm just trying to understand if: 1) Elves at 20's are now adults, physically and emotionally (they weren't in 1e). 2) If they start adventuring later (90+ years), which is plausible, what do they do in their 70 years before adventuring? Do they try to learn new skills and takes longer than the other races? It just looks dumb for an elf to take years to learn how to swim, for example. If they take the same amount of time to learn new skills as the other races, it should be reflected in game statistics IMO. 3) If they're mature enough at 20's, it only makes sense to see them as children in the Elvish point-of-view. To other races, they're full grown up adults and not really different from their 110 years old counterparts. I'm just trying to understand what's the tea with Elvish ages now and I apologize if my posts sounds sarcastic or something, it's not my intention.
thejeff wrote:
I agree. If Elves mature as quickly as humans, Forlorn makes no sense to me, since nothing will stop them adventuring in their 20's.
Roswynn wrote:
Oh, silly me. Not scenario, but setting, Golarion as a whole. I don't know, I'm just in love with the new kobolds and have so many good ideas for them. I'll probably make an important and silly Kobold as my first villain.
James Jacobs wrote: Elves grow up/mature as quickly as humans, but then they slow down a lot. You can still play a 100 year old elf who, biologically, is akin to a 20 year old human, more or less, and it's that sort of elf who is a Forlorn elf if they grew up among humans or other races that grow old and die much more quickly. If they grow up/reach maturity as quickly as humans, wouldn't they be able to understand "life and death" the same way a human does? The whole Forlorn idea to me was that Elves weren't capable of understanding the idea of other people growing old and they staying as a child for so many years, because they wouldn't understand it anyway, they wouldn't be mature enough for that. It's like trying to explain to a child why someone dear to them passed away. They'll mourn and miss the person, but not the same way an adult would do.
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
I just... don't feel it's enough. At the moment, I feel like I'm the only one at my group looking forward 2e. I try to share what I learn here with my group and they're all meh about it. I can't convince them to watch an hour video. It gets lonely. :(
A little bit offtopic: In the playtest book, we have that description of Elven lifespan: Quote:
Is that a retcon? If I recall correctly, Elves wouldn't be mature (physically and emotionally) until around their first century, which makes it so painful for an elf to grow up in a human environment, where they see all their friends live and die before they can even reach maturity. Seems like Elves now grow up as fast as a human, but to other elves (and to other elves only), they're still a child until their nineties.
thejeff wrote: It's not particularly the ears. It's the facial structure that looks more uncanny valley to me. As it was supposed to be. Elves in Golarion have always been like that. Beauty is always relative (since it's a social construction), but imho, what makes an Golarian elf appealing to humans is the mix of "odd" features and it's long lifespan, making them look mysterious, intelligent and sometimes sad, when they stay far too long within a human community.
RakeleerRR wrote: However, and meant as no slight to the Oblivion Oath team (whom I have honest affection for, especially Sara who is constantly channeling positive energy around here) they are not professionally charming people. I totally disagree sir. My heart melts everytime I see Jason and Sara at screen and I'm not even bisexual. :( Jokes aside, I do believe Paizo has great storytelling to get close to Critical Role, but I'm not sure how they can improve their marketing to get people to watch their streams. I've been watching Oblivion Oath the past two weeks and they have 140~150 viewers, which sounds low considering it's the best way at the moment to learn new rules. I think the playtest left a bad taste in most people's mouths and left much to be desired. We could see more hype in the forums on blog previews prior playtest.
I don't think so. What do you have in mind? What is changing comparing to 1e or to Playtest? If it's comparing to 1e, I do believe they already did that in a more generic way: streamlined rules, easy to pick up and play, easier to teach, etc. A side-to-side rules change would take more than a page anyway and it can lead to wrong interpretation, driving people away from 2e CRB.
As a brazilian, I can relate to what you're feeling. What I did in the playtest was pre-ordering the books at Amazon.com.br and they arrived way earlier than I expected - around 2~ days after the official release. Although I can't find any 2e books at Amazon at the moment, I believe it's just a matter of time before pre-order starts. Amazon might be your best bet if you want the books to arrive as soon as possible. I'm considering Paizo's subscription, though - if they provide the free pdf with it (they haven't decided on that yet), I can wait longer for the books to arrive while I can read the pdf on day one.
Quick question, although I'm not sure if it can be answered at the moment: one aspect of the playtest I really liked was different feats types having different power levels. This way, a Class feat had more impact combat-wise than a general feat and a general feat was slightly better than a skill feat. I like that system to avoid trap choices and helps new players to know which feats are more impactful at all times. Does 2e still keep that?
Jason Bulmahn wrote:
Which is something I'm looking for and I believe it's an improvement of 1e. Unless the GM is trying to ruin the fun, the same set of rules to both players and GM doesn't make sense nowadays and leads to a broken set of rules.
Roswynn wrote:
I believe Jason just "rolled with it", aka, GM fiat. People were desperate and willing to hear the charismatic goblin, maybe?
You can't compare anything to Critical Role at the moment, because they're made by professionals. Matthew Mercer is a hella of storyteller, he's engaging, he knows how to keep everyone entertained (audience included) and he also has amazing players, willing to make it happen. The system itself is not the problem, but what kind of players you'll bring with it and what kind of people you want to watch it. I have two players that are Pathfinder experts. They'd be BORING to watch, despite their system knowledge. They're that kinda of player that you're describing a room and they're already "I'm using that power that let me sense anything within 60ft even if it's invisible and ethereal and..." you know? That thing doesn't work in entertainment so well, but it would work with a more mechanical-oriented viewer. If I'm there for the plot, I'd be bored as hell if someone interrupt a room description to remind the GM about their super power that don't let his character be surprised. Even though the GM has the final word, you're still playing with the same sets of rules as your players. If I cast two spells on the same round against those players, they'll surely ask if one of them was quicken, interrupting the flow again. Some will find pleasure in a more tactical game - some won't. It seems like people are staying with Critical Role for the story, not the mechanics.
Noir le Lotus wrote:
The cow level is a lie
Roswynn wrote:
I feel your pain. I'm about to finish Curse of the Crimson Throne as GM (lvl 16) and the system is taking the best of me. I dont even have fun anymore. Most of the encounters are not challenging as written, so I try to step up and making them more fun, but everything seems to be rocket taggish. I don't find fun in 2 hours combat. To prepare a 4 hours session, I have to spend at least twice the amount of time. I love how you can do anything with Pathfinder. I hate how you can do anything with Pathfinder.
ChibiNyan wrote:
XP is important in organized play. I've seen some GMs use it as well, even though I prefer milestone in general.
pjrogers wrote:
In my experience, having a huge range of options, including those who are not that great is a recipe for narrowing the best choices and leaving someone behind. I'm yet to see a wizard without color spray and grease at first level if they know what they're doing - which shouldn't be required to play the game (or a wizard) at all. To be honest, I do prefer a system where everyone can contribute somehow without reading a list of 1k feats or spells to be effective.
Lyee wrote: Yeah, on Spell Roll vs Skill, I think the main reason for that is the Sorcerer, who can definitely be really good at Spell Rolls with arcane spells and be Untrained in Arcane. Which is, imho, thematically interesting. I know how to use spells, but I don't really know (or care about) how they work. I know my limitations and I know what can I do. Talent, not science, is what defines a Sorcerer.
People always forget that most aspects that seems off (tight math, +1/level, "defined roles") is ignored by most, specially those new to RPGs. Most people will just pick what suits them, not what mathematically is a better choice, with a few exceptions. It's a game about playing the character you want, after all. For those people, 1E is a nightmare. There's a huge discrepancy between a well-optimized character and what a "fun concept" character can do in battle, even at low levels. That leads to frustration and GM adaptation. I'm not a fan of defined roles as well. I like to tell my player that wants to play an archer that fighters, rangers, rogues, paladins, bards or even druids are good choices, each one with a bonus. Fighter will hit easier and harder, but druids and bards will also have spells. Rangers will be close to the fighter, but they can track targets easier and might get an animal companion. Rogues can hit harder with sneak attack, have more skills, are nimble and stealthy as heck. Paladins will be a little behind the fighter and rogue damage-wise, but you can also have divine powers to compensate that. That's the power of choice. 2e is trying to achiev that removing the whole feat taxes that are not interesting at all. In 1e, some builds requires you to be human just because of that sweet extra feat at 1st level. Is that a choice? It's a sweet spot that different feats have different power level as well. If everything was just "feat", people would always decide on those feats that give more combat power. You won't feel guilty to get a skill feat that seems fun because you're giving up combat power in 2e. At first I didn't find any necessity of an exploration mode - until I realised it's aimed to new GMs, to give them a guideline of how much a character can walk while detecting magic, while being perceptive and so on. It's there to guide those who are new. Bulk instead of weight is a nice addition as well. Of course, everything can be improved, we can run the playtest for another year and we would still find things to get improved and the tight schedule doesn't help. I wish I could have more time to playtest the system without sacrificing my regular 1e sessions. We tried to keep it up, but my group is in the climax of CoCT, so they weren't that interested in the playtest. What I don't expect is that 2e will please everyone in every aspect - that would be impossible. Some will prefer 1e the same way people prefer and play 3.5. And that's fine. Both versions can co-exist.
About Inarus the WandererOffense
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