New kobolds


Second Edition

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Sovereign Court

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This thread became incredibly pure and I love it. ^_^


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mosquit0 wrote:

It'd be really interesting if they became one of very few small races to not have the automatic -2 to Strength, heh. Like, if they were +Dex, +Int, -Wis, or something?

But not having either -2 Str or Con would be pretty different from pretty much everything we know about kobolds!

Goblins already have no Str penalty, suffering a Wis penalty instead. Making Kobolds too similar to Goblins is definitely a bad call.

Thanks for that, I genuinely completely forgot what goblins got in 2E and was going off their 1E stats, heh.

But yeah, I don't think they need to overcomplicate it with multiple penalties, or bonuses to two mental scores, or anything. I'd be quite happy with +Dex/+Int/-Str.

Liberty's Edge

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Mosquit0 wrote:
Thanks for that, I genuinely completely forgot what goblins got in 2E and was going off their 1E stats, heh.

No problem. I'm always happy to be of assistance. :)

Mosquit0 wrote:
But yeah, I don't think they need to overcomplicate it with multiple penalties, or bonuses to two mental scores, or anything. I'd be quite happy with +Dex/+Int/-Str.

This is my favored distribution as well. Very consistent with their portrayal and a unique distribution mechanically.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I also think with ancestry feats, heritages and the floating bonus, raw stat similarities don't matter so much in causing ancestries to feel too similar.

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Malk_Content wrote:
I also think with ancestry feats, heritages and the floating bonus, raw stat similarities don't matter so much in causing ancestries to feel too similar.

That's true in the long term, I agree. In the short term, the small number of Ancestries and lack of many specific combinations make me still inclined to want new and different distributions, especially for thematically similar Ancestries (which Goblins and Kobolds are in many ways).

Grand Lodge

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Since Kobolds can be diverse among themselves, what about two free ability boosts as Humans?

I'm all for Kobold-only feats to make them look adorable and plushie until they start to burn everything around them as sorcerers or pierce someone's eyes with their spears.

Liberty's Edge

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Leafar Cathal wrote:
Since Kobolds can be diverse among themselves, what about two free ability boosts as Humans?

Well, the free +2 that all Ancestries get lets everyone be diverse now, and I don't see low Dex or high Str Kobolds as normal or common. I definitely don't see them as more diverse than Halflings or Elves, to pick two random examples.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Since Kobolds can be diverse among themselves, what about two free ability boosts as Humans?
Well, the free +2 that all Ancestries get lets everyone be diverse now, and I don't see low Dex or high Str Kobolds as normal or common. I definitely don't see them as more diverse than Halflings or Elves, to pick two random examples.

Well kobold are know miners and mining is definitely str and while I do agree +2/+2 seems to not fit kobolds. But I do hope they change kobold -2 to something other than str or con...

Silver Crusade

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oholoko wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Since Kobolds can be diverse among themselves, what about two free ability boosts as Humans?
Well, the free +2 that all Ancestries get lets everyone be diverse now, and I don't see low Dex or high Str Kobolds as normal or common. I definitely don't see them as more diverse than Halflings or Elves, to pick two random examples.
Well kobold are know miners and mining is definitely str and while I do agree +2/+2 seems to not fit kobolds. But I do hope they change kobold -2 to something other than str or con...

*taps chin*

While light, Plushies aren't that agile.

Grand Lodge

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Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?

Silver Crusade

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Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?

Yes.


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By "The scenario" do you mean Age of Ashes?

In that case, yes, a kobold pc would really shine in that ap.

Personally I still think that goblins are so iconic and unique in PF that they're the best choice for the CRB.

I certainly hope plushies kobolds reach those lofty heights one day, though!


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Roswynn wrote:

By "The scenario" do you mean Age of Ashes?

In that case, yes, a kobold pc would really shine in that ap.

Personally I still think that goblins are so iconic and unique in PF that they're the best choice for the CRB.

I certainly hope plushies kobolds reach those lofty heights one day, though!

Bold plushies are best plushies.

Grand Lodge

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Roswynn wrote:

By "The scenario" do you mean Age of Ashes?

In that case, yes, a kobold pc would really shine in that ap.

Personally I still think that goblins are so iconic and unique in PF that they're the best choice for the CRB.

I certainly hope plushies kobolds reach those lofty heights one day, though!

Oh, silly me. Not scenario, but setting, Golarion as a whole.

I don't know, I'm just in love with the new kobolds and have so many good ideas for them. I'll probably make an important and silly Kobold as my first villain.


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I actually recall a time, back when, when kobolds WERE the humanoids that got name-dropped on Paizo's voicemail...


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Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?

Yes

Liberty's Edge

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Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?

No

Silver Crusade

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The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No

To the plushie dungeon with you!


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Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!

Best. Dungeon. Ever.


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Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!

Ah. I see. It would appear that you are a member of the Spanish Inquisition.


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Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!

15 minutes with the plushy bolds should do trick and 'change'his opinion.

Silver Crusade

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Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!
Ah. I see. It would appear that you are a member of the Spanish Inquisition.

No, Plushies.


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Rysky wrote:
Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!
Ah. I see. It would appear that you are a member of the Spanish Inquisition.
No, Plushies.

I mean, you’ve gotta build up to the plushies. You first stick them in the comfy chair before you bring the plushies in.

Silver Crusade

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Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Jokey the Unfunny Comedian wrote:
Rysky wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Leafar Cathal wrote:
Does anybody feel that, although goblins are Paizo's brand recognition, the new Kobolds would fit the CRB (and the scenario) better?
No
To the plushie dungeon with you!
Ah. I see. It would appear that you are a member of the Spanish Inquisition.
No, Plushies.
I mean, you’ve gotta build up to the plushies. You first stick them in the comfy chair before you bring the plushies in.

It’s more like a small pit and I just pile the plushies on them so they’re comfy.


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Ah, the infamous kobold plush trap (or is it plush kobold trap), from which few can escape. {shake's fist at the fiendishly clever Tucker}

Edit: Makes mental note to stat up plush critter version of Sarlacc pit. ("In its belly, you will find a new definition of comfort and snuggling as you are slowly, blissfully digested over a thousand years.")


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May the gods forgive me...but Oblivion Oath's Iruxi and this thread inspired me to do THIS.

Silver Crusade

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Cool!


oholoko wrote:
But now i need to know... What happened to kobolds, don't get me wrong i am not in the 'Kobolds suck now' camp or the 'I love their cute new faces' one. I am still conflicted about my favorite little dragon boys so i need to know, did something happen for the change? Is it just visual? Will there be new kobold abilities to show?

Ok, what is this referencing? Its clearly referencing something, but I don't know what and I want to know.


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Have you not seen the new art direction for kobolds, Draco? Check out the cover of the 2e bestiary.

This is just my opinion, but they are adorable and yet somehow still badass.

If you were just wondering if that was all, yes I believe oholoko was just asking if there was any in-lore reasoning behind the change in appearance or if it was just a visual retcon (which I believe it is).


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MaxAstro wrote:
Have you not seen the new art direction for kobolds, Draco? Check out the cover of the 2e bestiary.

I live under a rock. I'll go look that up now.

Edit:
Huh. Not sure I'm a fan, but I don't really have anything against it either.

Regardless, I've always been a fan of Maim 'bolds. A few examples:
https://d.facdn.net/art/doodlies/1503792714/1503792714.doodlies_kt._09-16_f a.jpg
https://d.facdn.net/art/duskthebatpack/1534450579/1534450579.duskthebatpack _maim_-_ko-fi_color_sketch_for_duskthebatpack_sirocco_3_full.png

And Sefeiren 'bolds, which are harder to link samples for. Literally the only general rated images I can find and they're not even representative of why I like her style.
https://d.facdn.net/art/slither/1531785861/1531785861.slither_frillbolds_by _sefeiren.png (specific character designs koboldized)
https://d.facdn.net/art/sefeiren/1301006581/1301006581.sefeiren_zam_ske7as. jpg (relatively generic)

This one is better, if you'll allow some suggestiveness, but that I've edited out anything explicit.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/5k5vw980tht100w/kobold-valentine.png


Of the kobolds on the cover of the new Bestiary, I hereby name them Larry (the red one), Curly (the blue one), and Moe (the black one). In my games, this trio of kobolds will forevermore be known as the...

Spoiler:
Demon Dogs!

Why? Because I just did... and the Lords of Light demanded it.

EDIT: Hmmm... Larry isn't really a typical fit for a fantasy setting. Maybe I should've named that one Shemp instead... Nah! That just aids Larry in becoming more memorable. I'll give the name, Shemp, to the next kobold that comes along.


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Thundarr the Barbarian wrote:

Of the kobolds on the cover of the new Bestiary, I hereby name them Larry (the red one), Curly (the blue one), and Moe (the black one). In my games, this trio of kobolds will forevermore be known as the...

** spoiler omitted **

Why? Because I just did... and the Lords of Light demanded it.

EDIT: Hmmm... Larry isn't really a typical fit for a fantasy setting. Maybe I should've named that one Shemp instead... Nah! That just aids Larry in becoming more memorable.

I just keep thinking now that they got their names by randomly looking over words on a parchment and choosing the ones that look the coolest before forcing a weak peddler to translate their new terrifying common names.


Apologies if this was higher in the thread or elsewhere, I couldn't seem to find anything, but has anyone got a link or an image of the new design? I haven't seen it.


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Here you go: Bestiary, 2nd Edition


Draco18s wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:
Have you not seen the new art direction for kobolds, Draco? Check out the cover of the 2e bestiary.

I live under a rock. I'll go look that up now.

Edit:
Huh. Not sure I'm a fan, but I don't really have anything against it either.

Regardless, I've always been a fan of Maim 'bolds. A few examples:
https://d.facdn.net/art/doodlies/1503792714/1503792714.doodlies_kt._09-16_f a.jpg
https://d.facdn.net/art/duskthebatpack/1534450579/1534450579.duskthebatpack _maim_-_ko-fi_color_sketch_for_duskthebatpack_sirocco_3_full.png

And Sefeiren 'bolds, which are harder to link samples for. Literally the only general rated images I can find and they're not even representative of why I like her style.
https://d.facdn.net/art/slither/1531785861/1531785861.slither_frillbolds_by _sefeiren.png (specific character designs koboldized)
https://d.facdn.net/art/sefeiren/1301006581/1301006581.sefeiren_zam_ske7as. jpg (relatively generic)

This one is better, if you'll allow some suggestiveness, but that I've edited out anything explicit.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/5k5vw980tht100w/kobold-valentine.png

Those links don't seem to be working, though tbh,I don't think fur-affinity lets you link just the images themselves.


Shemp, the Kobold wrote:
Here you go: Bestiary, 2nd Edition

Oh snap I didn't even make the connection that they were kobolds. Cool, thanks!


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I love kobolds personally but the new ones seem unnecessarily cutesy. They look kind of like toys. Plus the stylized big head stubby limbs aesthetic feels like it steps on goblins' toes a bit.

To be honest, without this thread explicitly saying so I wouldn't have even thought they were kobolds.

Personally some of my favorite kobold designs have come from Paizo. Stuff like these.
This one from Monster Codex
And this one from Inner Sea Races

That said, excited for kobold ancestries not having an intentionally garbage statline. Even if I have to pretend they don't look like what they look like.

BluLion wrote:
Those links don't seem to be working, though tbh,I don't think fur-affinity lets you link just the images themselves.

The hyperlinks don't work for me either but manually looking up the link after you get the error seems to work for me.


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Squiggit wrote:

I love kobolds personally but the new ones seem unnecessarily cutesy. They look kind of like toys. Plus the stylized big head stubby limbs aesthetic feels like it steps on goblins' toes a bit.

To be honest, without this thread explicitly saying so I wouldn't have even thought they were kobolds.

Personally some of my favorite kobold designs have come from Paizo. Stuff like these.
This one from Monster Codex
And this one from Inner Sea Races

That said, excited for kobold ancestries not having an intentionally garbage statline. Even if I have to pretend they don't look like what they look like.

BluLion wrote:
Those links don't seem to be working, though tbh,I don't think fur-affinity lets you link just the images themselves.

The hyperlinks don't work for me either but manually looking up the link after you get the error seems to work for me.

To the plushy dungeon with him!


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Giving a character a big-ish head and small limbs is a typical character design trick to let the viewer understand they're smaller than human adults even when taken in isolation - because they look like children this way, and we automatically make the connection without even needing to think about it.

Same reason Lini and Lem look the way they do in the new art (and in the old as well, but perhaps to a lesser extent, plus the new art direction imo succeeds in making them less like typical halflings and gnomes from other IPs and more distinctly PF. Same with the kobolds).


I know why they do it. I just think giving all the small races the same body type when before there was some variety dilutes them a bit. Before if someone wanted to play a cute, superdeformed monsterish race goblins fit perfectly and for someone who wants something more spindly and scrawny kobolds worked well while still filling a similar design niche.

Now there’s really no option for a player interested in the latter aesthetic and I think that’s a shame. But Paizo and most of the people here don’t seem to think that’s a problem or seem to like the old kobold designs much, so it is what it is.


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BluLion wrote:
Those links don't seem to be working, though tbh,I don't think fur-affinity lets you link just the images themselves.

Whoops. Because I'd copied the link it was HTTPS, so by not being logged in the server 403'd on you. Relinking without the S for those that couldn't figure out web technology enough to fix things themselves. :B

(And yeah, you can hotlink FA images; their site security is terrible. They've been hacked on no less than 3 occasions in the last eight years or so).

Maim 'bolds:
http://d.facdn.net/art/doodlies/1503792714/1503792714.doodlies_kt._09-16_fa .jpg
http://d.facdn.net/art/duskthebatpack/1534450579/1534450579.duskthebatpack_ maim_-_ko-fi_color_sketch_for_duskthebatpack_sirocco_3_full.png

Sefeiren 'bolds:
http://d.facdn.net/art/slither/1531785861/1531785861.slither_frillbolds_by_ sefeiren.png (specific character designs koboldized)
http://d.facdn.net/art/sefeiren/1301006581/1301006581.sefeiren_zam_ske7as.j pg (relatively generic)

Dark Archive

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Squiggit wrote:
I just think giving all the small races the same body type when before there was some variety dilutes them a bit.

I like to go the 'have cake and eat cake, too' route of saying that different populations of various races look pretty diverse, so that catfolk in one area look like Carolina Eade's catfolk, while catfolk from another area look more like the ones in the Bestiary.

I'd go the same way with kobolds. Some are cute waddling plushies with scales. Some are scary scrawny bite-sized lizardfolk.


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Set wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
I just think giving all the small races the same body type when before there was some variety dilutes them a bit.

I like to go the 'have cake and eat cake, too' route of saying that different populations of various races look pretty diverse, so that catfolk in one area look like Carolina Eade's catfolk, while catfolk from another area look more like the ones in the Bestiary.

I'd go the same way with kobolds. Some are cute waddling plushies with scales. Some are scary scrawny bite-sized lizardfolk.

I normally don't consider game art canon and promote my own vision of the setting in other games, but considering I kinda worship PF artists I'm all for official artistic rendition. Whatever they tell me kobolds, catfolks and asparagus-people look like on Golarion, that's pretty much exactly what I'm showing my players.


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If we're talking favorite kobold designs, I'm definitely partial to the one's by Chris Zito. Long-eared lizard dogs are just so damn adorable.

Here's a few examples:
(General range of designs)
(A specific character he plays as part of a streamed 5th Ed game)
(And my kobold gunslinger that I commisioned him to draw for me)

It's just one of the major designs for these little boyos that I've latched onto and associate with them. That said, I really like the new designs for 2nd Ed, and cant wait to get the full page art for them.


Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:

If we're talking favorite kobold designs, I'm definitely partial to the one's by Chris Zito. Long-eared lizard dogs are just so damn adorable.

Here's a few examples:
(General range of designs)
(A specific character he plays as part of a streamed 5th Ed game)
(And my kobold gunslinger that I commisioned him to draw for me)

It's just one of the major designs for these little boyos that I've latched onto and associate with them. That said, I really like the new designs for 2nd Ed, and cant wait to get the full page art for them.

Those are delightfully wacky.

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Ediwir wrote:

It’s a bit like someone telling you that Absalom is secretly controlled by a group of Ventrue.

No no no, it's clearly Ventrue Antitribu, PRAISE CAINE!


I know he isn't a kobold, but I have always thought of Snarf of Snarfquest as a cool design for a civilized kobold.


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Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:
If we're talking favorite kobold designs, I'm definitely partial to the one's by Chris Zito. Long-eared lizard dogs are just so damn adorable.

I think I've seen them before. Definitely cute, though they don't really feel like kobolds to me.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:

If we're talking favorite kobold designs, I'm definitely partial to the one's by Chris Zito. Long-eared lizard dogs are just so damn adorable.

Here's a few examples:
(General range of designs)
(A specific character he plays as part of a streamed 5th Ed game)
(And my kobold gunslinger that I commisioned him to draw for me)

It's just one of the major designs for these little boyos that I've latched onto and associate with them. That said, I really like the new designs for 2nd Ed, and cant wait to get the full page art for them.

Those are delightfully wacky.

That's pretty much the exact best way to put it.


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I just love all the kobolds unconditionally. Both new and old designs and I am planning on using both designs going forward, just for different clans/tribes in different parts of my own setting.

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