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Yes, I could find some references.
And I better understand Rysky's points actually.
I think Paizo steers quite clear of anything that is not clearly legal.
So, when I subscribe to receiving Pathfinder RPG line products, which does not specify any edition IIRC, I think I cannot really claim that when I receive these products that they were unsolicited even if they are from the new edition of Pathfinder RPG.
Failing my Will save:
That's really completely different. More akin to "You're subscribed to our AP line? We're going to add a module subscription too, unless you cancel it."
The cable companies got in trouble for adding speciality channels the customers hadn't requested and charging for them, not changing the programming on the channels they already had.
I tend to agree with you.
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If the cable TV companies offered a completely new offer and stopped offering their previous line and heavily advertised the fact that the old was coming to an end, while the new was taking over with a very specific date, and all of this was announced more than a year before the change, with advance warning by email, I do not see on what basis people could complain about having to spend money on something they do not want.You mean except for that being specifically _illegal_ here?
When this was an issue with the cable companies, the argument Shaw, Rogers, etc. were making was that they were giving warning and people had plenty of time to cancel.
If I read your example correctly, the cable company added channels and increased the bill so that you had to actively opt out of the new chsnnels to avoid getting charged more than you expected.
That's not what's happening here, you have to acknowledge. Paizo is still distributing RPG material: rulebooks and bestiaries for the core line, campaign setting material for the campaign setting line.
But beyond that, it's all moot because they have and continue to alert the subscribers to the upcoming change. That would satisfy most people. So unless you're being academic or obtuse, it seems the argument is not particularly useful.
I mean, you know the change is coming and that you need to send an e-mail between now and June requesting to stop in time to not receive 2nd Edition material, so... problem solved?
Is there a way to subscribe to the subscriptions and have them not start until the 2nd edition products come out? Or do I have to just time it right?
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I have a question that may be stupid but I’m new to this subscription thing. The subscription to Adventure Paths grants Paizo Adventage, which, if I understood correctly, gives you a 15% off in other products. I asume that 15% off applies to the items we are getting from the other subscriptions but it states the discount will only apply after the first AP in the subscription is sent. Does it mean that, if I subscribe to various Pathfinder subscriptions to jump into 2E hype train head on I won’t get the 15% in the other products until the next subscription shipment?
TL:DR - If I subscribe to various subscriptions to start with the first batch of 2E content, will I get the 15% off in all the other items of that first shipment?
I think the discount only applies to the Adventure Paths...
Sorry, no, ignore me. You were talking about something different than the AP discount.
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TL:DR - If I subscribe to various subscriptions to start with the first batch of 2E content, will I get the 15% off in all the other items of that first shipment?
Under the Pathfinder Advantage, as it now stands, any qualifying products which ship with the first AP volume in your subscription will receive the discount.
However, Paizo has not yet announced whether subscription benefits will change with the new edition. To be sure, you should wait until that has all been announced.
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TL:DR - If I subscribe to various subscriptions to start with the first batch of 2E content, will I get the 15% off in all the other items of that first shipment?Under the Pathfinder Advantage, as it now stands, any qualifying products which ship with the first AP volume in your subscription will receive the discount.
However, Paizo has not yet announced whether subscription benefits will change with the new edition. To be sure, you should wait until that has all been announced.
I am in this boat. I plan on subscribing to the Rulebook, Adventure path and Pathfinder Campaign Book Subscription but I am waiting to see if and how the terms / advantages of subscribing change.
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I'm fine as long as they keep it so i just have to subscribe to the AP line.
I'm not staying a subscriber if I have to subscribe to multiple lines to qualify for Pathfinder Advantage, I can't afford it, I'm already at my subscription limit.
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I'm still feeling a bit hurt from this same phase in Starfinder roll-out. When we asked if something like Pathfinder Advantage would be available for Starfinder, we were assured that yes, there would be something very similar. And then they announced Paizo Advantage for superscribers, and it was actually very different, because you had to subscribe to everything. The excuse given then was that it was because the AP was every other month, but they didn't change it when the AP went to monthly.
And now I'm very concerned the same nonsense is going to happen here, of requiring all kinds of expensive subscriptions I don't want to get the discount.
Probably best to wait until the 2E options are available on the “start with” list.
For the Core and Modules lines, they already are....
I'm still feeling a bit hurt from this same phase in Starfinder roll-out. When we asked if something like Pathfinder Advantage would be available for Starfinder, we were assured that yes, there would be something very similar. And then they announced Paizo Advantage for superscribers, and it was actually very different, because you had to subscribe to everything. The excuse given then was that it was because the AP was every other month, but they didn't change it when the AP went to monthly.
And now I'm very concerned the same nonsense is going to happen here, of requiring all kinds of expensive subscriptions I don't want to get the discount.
I completely understand. I felt the restrictions for Starfinder where a bit on the heavy handed side as well. In the end PDFs made it financially make sense for me to sub to the Adventure Path and Rule book subs so im holding out to see those continue as part of the deal. I was simply not interested in a lot of what was coming out of the accessories subscription and knew I would never do more than grab something from there every now and then so it locked me out of super sub benefits. I am hoping if they do go a similar route to what they did for Starfinder (hoping not but we will see) it at least allows a combination of the two lines rather than all of one or the other.
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It's not "who gets inconvenienced" it's "inconvenience v. appearing to be dishonest money-grubbers."
Requiring action to cancel is not just going to burn goodwill with those people, but also people they talk to about it. That burn is also not just going to be over an inconvenience but over a business practice that edges into territory that gets people mad enough to take it to the government.
If someone wants to view Paizo as "dishonest money-grubbers" I suppose that's on them. I don't see it.
I'm still feeling a bit hurt from this same phase in Starfinder roll-out. When we asked if something like Pathfinder Advantage would be available for Starfinder, we were assured that yes, there would be something very similar. And then they announced Paizo Advantage for superscribers, and it was actually very different, because you had to subscribe to everything. The excuse given then was that it was because the AP was every other month, but they didn't change it when the AP went to monthly.
And now I'm very concerned the same nonsense is going to happen here, of requiring all kinds of expensive subscriptions I don't want to get the discount.
I didn't realize they did this for Starfinder.
It will be interesting to see what they do. Superscriber benefits with Pathfinder don't exist (beyond a forum tag), which to me has always been a missed opportunity (and why I stopped being one).
Anyone care to provide the links to the subscriptions? I have yet to find the appropriate pages.
From the menu at the top of the page, hover over Store and click on Subscriptions. That brings you here.
You can also get to a subscription from one of the items that will be in it; for example on the Core Rulebook page there's a link after the description that says "Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscription."
Keep in mind that the details there are for the current subscriptions, and they haven't made final announcements yet about what (if anything) will be changing for the second edition.
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When I first saw the trailer for a new edition playtest about a year ago, admittedly my first reaction was, "But... but...!"
Now the closer it gets, the more excited and anxious I get. The enthusiasm Erik, Jason, Mark and the gang have for it in the videos is just infectious. I can tell they can't wait for everyone to see what they're unveiling.
And they way they're patiently and painstakingly staying up 25 hours a day, jazzed on coffee and no-doze to keep an anxious fan base in the loop.
Thanks, guys. For real. I've been table topping my whole life. And this stuff is important to me. Can't wait.
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Ah!
I see my mistake. Even though the title of this thread is Pathfinder Second Edition Subscription Questions for some inexplicable reason I came here thinking I'd see Pathfinder Second Edition Subscription Answers.
0:)
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Ah!
I see my mistake. Even though the title of this thread is Pathfinder Second Edition Subscription Questions for some inexplicable reason I came here thinking I'd see Pathfinder Second Edition Subscription Answers.
0:)
It's actually, um, right there in the first post. A whole bunch of FAQs and answers. And Erik hopped on and answered a bunch more.
I’m one of the people waiting to see whether PDFs are included in the subscription or not before I decide on subscribing. Hopefully there will be an answer soon.
I'd be shocked if they weren't - no reason to subscribe otherwise (unless the price breaks can beat amazon.com).
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I’m one of the people waiting to see whether PDFs are included in the subscription or not before I decide on subscribing. Hopefully there will be an answer soon.I'd be shocked if they weren't - no reason to subscribe otherwise (unless the price breaks can beat amazon.com).
Yeah, they probably wait before saying anything because they want to include something special in it, but they are not sure they actually can.
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If I have subscriptions to basically everything, and am buying a copy of the deluxe version outside the subscription, are any of these slated for GenCon pickup?Very likely yes, but we haven't made any announcements about Gen Con pick up yet.
When you do make a decision, please make a very big, noticeable, announcement. I have subscribed to several items that are available now for PF2 (still waiting for APs and World Guides, will skip accessories) and plan to attend Gen Con. I hope to come back with a very full and heavy suitcase.
Any idea how soon the subscriptions pages will be updated.
I want to sign up for some of the new PF2's, but only pre-orders are available, even on things that are continuing.
I'm pretty sure that you'll have to wait until the last PF1 products are releasing, so that PF2 products will be the "current" or "next" product in the line.
According to the OP, you should be able to sub to the RPG/Rulebook and Modules/Adventures lines now, choosing the first PF2 product as your starting product. For the rest of the lines, you'll have to wait until June or July (or until it's been created, in the case of the Accessory line; don't know if it's available yet).
It might be worth noting that if you pre-order an item and then subscribe to the appropriate line at a later date, the system has historically been pretty good about converting your preordered item into a subscription item without doubling your order.
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Uh, that's really on the subscriber to check on in on their subscription to see what they're paying to get.As a note on this point: Just continuing subscriptions on into PF2 is going to come across as something like negative-option billing for people who have decided PF2 isn't for them. So you probably want to be a bit proactive in asking people and perhaps assuming "yes" isn't the best choice.
One: They did, they subscribed to something that said it was for PF1 products and that's what they were paying to get.
Two: The cable companies around here made the _exact same argument_ when they were trying to keep negative-option billing from being banned. Note that those arguments failed.
I don't doubt they won't send emails though beforehand.It would be just as easy to send emails that, instead of requiring those who don't want PF2 stuff to take properly timed action, offer a quick way of subscribing to the PF2 stuff that matches the existing PF1 subscriptions.
Looking at it from a customer goodwill perspective:
Requiring people say no to not get something they don't want comes across as wanting to grab some money from people who don't want it. IOW, you will have people who see it as 'picking their pocket'.
Requiring people to say yes to get the new line of products proactively says to people "we want to do this the right way" and only creates a very mild inconvenience.
I agree, this is being handled with only Paizo's interests in mind.
I have already started the process of cancelling my subscriptions and have already had problems. I agree that this looks like an attempt to stick people with products they don't want - they have a PF 2E Adventure Path that appears to be shipping at the same time the last issue of the final 1E Adventure Path releases so if you want the last one with the Pathfinder Advantage benefit, you have to take both of them. Total cash grab.|
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Uh, that's really on the subscriber to check on in on their subscription to see what they're paying to get.As a note on this point: Just continuing subscriptions on into PF2 is going to come across as something like negative-option billing for people who have decided PF2 isn't for them. So you probably want to be a bit proactive in asking people and perhaps assuming "yes" isn't the best choice.
One: They did, they subscribed to something that said it was for PF1 products and that's what they were paying to get.
Two: The cable companies around here made the _exact same argument_ when they were trying to keep negative-option billing from being banned. Note that those arguments failed.
I don't doubt they won't send emails though beforehand.It would be just as easy to send emails that, instead of requiring those who don't want PF2 stuff to take properly timed action, offer a quick way of subscribing to the PF2 stuff that matches the existing PF1 subscriptions.
Looking at it from a customer goodwill perspective:
Requiring people say no to not get something they don't want comes across as wanting to grab some money from people who don't want it. IOW, you will have people who see it as 'picking their pocket'.
Requiring people to say yes to get the new line of products proactively says to people "we want to do this the right way" and only creates a very mild inconvenience.
I agree, this is being handled with only Paizo's interests in mind.
I have already started the process of cancelling my subscriptions and have already had problems. I agree that this looks like an attempt to stick people with products they don't want - they have a PF 2E Adventure Path that appears to be shipping at the same time the last issue of the final 1E Adventure Path releases so if you want the last one with the Pathfinder Advantage benefit, you have to take both of them. Total cash grab.
Or ya know, a simple post in the Customer Service forum or an email and they will just send you the one. I think you're demonizing them a bit much, my guy.
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Just gonna chime in, customer service at Paizo is responsive and conscientious. You let 'em know, they'll sort it out.
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Just gonna chime in, customer service at Paizo is responsive and conscientious. You let 'em know, they'll sort it out.
What Cole said :)
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I agree, this is being handled with only Paizo's interests in mind.
I have already started the process of cancelling my subscriptions and have already had problems. I agree that this looks like an attempt to stick people with products they don't want - they have a PF 2E Adventure Path that appears to be shipping at the same time the last issue of the final 1E Adventure Path releases so if you want the last one with the Pathfinder Advantage benefit, you have to take both of them. Total cash grab.
I'm not sure what you mean by "started the process" since "the process" is contacting Customer Service and asking them to do it, but here's an example of how to get it done.
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My question is just the opposite. Is there a way for me to subscribe to the Adventure Path beginning with first 2nd Edition adventure or do I just have to wait until the start with finally shows it?
My question is just the opposite. Is there a way for me to subscribe to the Adventure Path beginning with first 2nd Edition adventure or do I just have to wait until the start with finally shows it?
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Start your Pathfinder Adventure Path subscription in early July. Choose to begin your sub with Adventure Path #145: Hellknight Hill (Age of Ashes 1 of 6), which will ship in late July.
It would be convenient to have an option to "pre-subscribe" under these circumstances, but I don't believe they have the technology to handle it.
I'll give it a try. Thanks
I'll give it a try. Thanks
If that works, let me know. I’d like to do that too!
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I'll give it a try. ThanksIf that works, let me know. I’d like to do that too!
Unfortunately there is no way to preorder the Adventure path. We will have to wait until the subscription shows Age of Ashes part 1 in the Start With window.
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This might be a good point if PF2 were a modestly different game to PF. Since it's connection to PF is extremely tenuous it's essentially saying you subscribed for PF content but we're going to send you expansions for Shadowrun but with Pathfinder on the cover. PF2 is incompatible content for the subscription's spirit.Yes, I could find some references.
And I better understand Rysky's points actually.
I think Paizo steers quite clear of anything that is not clearly legal.
So, when I subscribe to receiving Pathfinder RPG line products, which does not specify any edition IIRC, I think I cannot really claim that when I receive these products that they were unsolicited even if they are from the new edition of Pathfinder RPG.
It’s not “extremely tenuous” though. It’s not incompatible to 1st Edition, you just need to do some updating, just you like you had to do if you wanted to bring any DND stuff into Pathfinder.