Funny, I came to this thread, not recognising the necromancy until I saw my long dead post. I was going to suggest Nushiwa (Coyote People) using the same feats and archetypes as Kitsume, only with +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Wis to reflect Wile E. Coyote. Roadrunner could be do with Tengu with some home brew speed buffs.
Because in myth and legend as well as real life there is a tradition of figures giving up normal attributes or coming from unusual backgrounds in order to tap into divine power. Good examples--- Moses having a stutter (something removed from movie versions) could be seen as a Oracle "Curse". Simularly, The great peacemaker of the Iroqious Confederacy is said to have a stutter. Odin giving an eye for wisdom. Tiresias loosing his sight but also having the experince of living life both as a man and woman. Joan of Arc could be considered to have a campaign specific "wrong gender" curse. Francis of Assisi's voluntary poverty could be seen as tied to his holiness. The Itako, blind Japanese mediums. Beserkers, loosing themselves in frenzy to tap into Odin's magic. Yes, it is the Barbarian's class but it is also a "divine madness". Many cultures consider madmen to be holy. Cassandra, being cursed to never being believed. Now you may not see all these characters as Oracles, but you can see why all of these could be inspirations for an Oracle Curse. I think these experiences collectively are what the curse mechanic is trying to emulate.
Creative solutions are solutions for solving a problem in the scenario, like in this case if there was something 9 feet off the ground or to have the barbarian get the gnome across freezing water. They are not for empowering general munchkinry, which is something this can fall into feasibly. Letting them try reasonably weird stuff is not the same thing as letting them always succeed.
I was looking at the Monk rules and noticed there wasn't an alignment restriction (and they had gotten tougher on other alignment questions). So, I thought, gee, let's make it a CG "bar fighter" and screw the RP suggestions, multiclass into rogue at second level. And she's so totally a Cayden Cailyn fangirl. Seriously, I want to make a HtH character and have always hated monk fluff (no better reason than it's not to my taste). So my question to you: Is this idea something that will be killed because I just pointed it out? Have anyone else any cool and interesting twists in the play tests?
The one thing I like about the 1E half elves and orcs (and why I play them a lot) is that they feel distinctly between the races i.e. something distinct. You can see a half elf become a summoner because as a child she longed for friends her age and getting a distinct advantage to be summoner. You can see a half orc shaman take up calling upon spirits because they can't compete physically with your full orc peers. That is what is cool in 1e and is likely to be lost if the half races are not distinct. Half elf/orc will likely be ignored as more Human-ish options are added with a 2e APG and Ultimate Books and there are less options for half races, who are essentially ignored/forgotten. It encourages the game to return to the bad days of 3.0-3.5 DnD when the half elf/orc were such poor options that they seldom if ever saw play.
Suggestion: go anti hero I have a pre vigilante class "vigilante' that might give some ideas. Character started out as my summoner's herold vanity/daughter (other "twin" daughter was my squire) who adventured in the summer to to pay for his daughters first class Taldan Education. My character "played hooky" in the fall and joined the Silver Crusade (rather than Daddy's Soverign Court) because Paladins are naive and a little unskilled in figuring things out, and she could beg forgiveness if they did figured it out (some of the values have since stuck) and with an 8 wis, this seemed like a great idea. Besides, going on adventures let her earn money for really awesome shoes and a great wardrobe! If I were to do a variation of this as a real vigilante, I'd do a NG "good girl" social identity and a CN vigilante identity. I might buy her as a vanity another PC. This could be really twisted with something like a splinter soul social gray paladin ID and CN Callistran Zealot vigilante id (and if anyone knows how to make that work for PFS, I'm impressed). I could come up with a lot of variations of this type of anti hero vigilante.
I love the summoner. I love being able to create and define the relationship between summoner and Eidolon. This is followed up by oracle for simular reasons. You define the relationship between the Oracle and the divine. My favorite was a bone Oracle who had Zyphus wanting to be her boyfriend. That can be played so many ways.
You know, this statement makes me sad, and a couple of the posts make me sad. I wish I didn't live in a society where everyone one was offended so easily. It is telling that a lot people here assume I mean to mock, even though I though it was clear I wanted to avoid that. But that is their problem, not mine.
I tend to see the half races being very simular to being on the autism spectrum (like myself) i.e. being "out of phase" with the society around them and have portrayed this in two of my favorite PFS characters, though never directly mentioning that I'm doing it. Both were fellow player favorites. Perhaps because of that I was considering this. So, no I haven't done Down Syndrome and only have known people slightly with the condition, but believe me I was starting to study it. The idea that I'd just go with "stereotypical ideas" wrong headed because my very asking is an indication that I hope to do it justice, which is a pretty good indication I'm trying to do just that. This has made me realize, that it is a big 'if' but even if I could pull it off, but is even more likely some people would assume the worst right off. So no, I will not be doing this character. But I'm not sure I like some of the reasons.
I, for awhile, have been thinking of creating a developmentally disabled character, perhaps having Down Snydrome and representing this by dumping Int. It would be possibly a Chosen One Paladin of Andoletta or a spiritualist whose spirit is his guardian/protector. In both cases, I'm thinking of making the familar and/or Spirit sometimes the senior partner in decision making. On the other hand, if handled badly, this character concept could be offensive. I wonder how others would handle such a character?
Scenario: 3-18 Godsmarket Gamble
Me: Look, this is tramatic, but food will comfort you. Here, have a coupon for free BBQ at MARVs!
Scenario 5-09 The Traitors Lodge
Spoiler:
We are running through a maze being chased by Minotaurs and, due to fear effects, are separated. I see illusionary (unknown to me) soliders being chased by another minotaur. I run one way and then yell to the soliders "Guys, I this is the way out," In order to get soliders between me and the Minotaur. GM: That's not exactly good. Me: No, it's not. I then erase the "good" on my Neutral Good alignment on my sheet. (This was the same character, a 16 year old female, who spent an entire scenario refering to Erastil as "the old horney god".)
No, I don't think there are enough classes since there are still niches and concepts yet unexplored by the available classes. So I still care. It is just a matter of finding those niches and machanically constructing a class to fit them. I disagree with this. I think too many classes cover the same ground. Take the concept of a swashbuckler. To make one you can use the swashbuckler class. Or make a duelist or a Cavilier or figher or rogue with some kind of archetypes combos and come up with the same thing concept wise. You can make members of classes that play totally differently. For example, I have two old school Summoners (one retired). The first is the Combat Eidolon Type which got the class hated. The other, the Summoner counts on summons and when it's suggested the 12 int Eidolon should be fighting (she's very much a skilldolon) his reaction is "and endanger my wife and the mother of my children." I have a lotus geisha bard who worships Kurgess and is Golarion's first cheerleader. And she is not Tien and neither is my kitsume. I had a Vigilante before there were Vigilantes. So the idea that we need a million more classes to support new ideas is not one I agree with at all. And I think yes, there are probably too many. Skald is pointless. Spiritualist could be a Summoner/unchained archetype. Swashbuckler sucks and can be done already and I could definitely keep going, but the fact is, you can create pretty much anything you want. And if you're not new to the game, it's not my fault you don't use all your options or have bought into the mentality that what I just described is somehow reskinning. So yes, I don't usually pay more than passing attention to the newer classes.
I think a lot of people would be truthfully. After all, a dead kid is dead and easily forgotten in time by the non immediate family. Life goes on and all that. An abused kid reminds us of our failures. It reminds of a line from 'Fight Club' that was changed. If you think you'll be offended don't read: They removed Helana Boham Carter's line "I want to have your abortion" because studio execs didn't want to offend pro life potential customers. It was changed to "I haven't been f*** like that since grade school". It went past Carter's radar because of the difference between American and British schooling. But the execs were happy.
I have reviewed my comments and cannot find any instance in which your right to be bothered has been disrespected. If I have missed it, please do show me. You misunderstand. I do not feel disrespected nor do I mean any disrespect. I am merely pointing out there are two issues that run parallel and are somewhat interconnected. One is the issue of the portrayal of child abuse in an RPG. The other is Paizo's constant pulling back whenever there is controversy or some fans objecting. I think I'd be more comfortable with Paizo pulling back in this case, if they hadn't pulled back so many times before from portraying less but somewhat controversial subjects like religious persecution and sexism. Hope that clarifies things.
The line is child abuse. I have no interest in discussing "should that be the line". The fact that I am bothered by the self censorship is, I think, a separate line that is disturbing in a different way. I respect your right to a line. Respect my right to be bothered by the Paizo's tendecy to 'clean up' after the fact even when they probably shouldn't (ex: Sarenae persecution in Taldor, Erastil being sexist but good).
I'm going to cover the Gods that attract me as Paladin patrons. Erastil If I were to run as a gm an incarnation of Erastil, I would base it Hershal from the Walking Dead(the pastor/farmer w/ the large family). He has a lot of skills, wisdom, and common sense, compassion but balanced with the needs of the people around him. He's a strict father, but he's also beloved and has earned that love. Those who worship Erastil try to be that compassionate, wise member of the community. My paladin of Erastil would be a person who at one point all of this was a challenge but because it was a challenge they now embody it. Changeling, half orc or elf seem to be pretty good racial choices here. Sheyln "Beauty above me, Beauty below me, Beauty all around me." Sheyln is all about seeing the worth in things and people, even if it's not initially obvious, and bringing it out. A paladin of Shelyn would embody this, giving others and encouraging others to be their best selves. They probably had this experience themselves too. Think of that really great teacher you had, who's encouraging and supportive, but can also say enough is enough. That is who I see a Paladin of Sheyln being. Think Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan. Think the movie version of Wonder Woman, and you get some idea who a Paladin of Sheyln would be. Hope that's helpful.
Large sized Dodo Bird, whose blue and gold feathers match an Eagle Knight's uniform speaks up. Hi, I am Bertie. I am Ariel's Eidolon. I am writing having escaped from the plane which Ari Summons me to ask the canidates a very important question. Some would say I'm unfettered, but I plan to return after this important question. I have loved and protected my half human since the gate opened in her chicken coop when she was just a girl and through over thirty missions. I love her to death. However, when she became a Coparal and then Captain in the Eagle Knights I found it odd that I did not get simular promotions in rank. I'm mean, I do my fair share of the work, but I have not gotten a single promotion in rank. I think this is terribly racist for an organization that fights against slavery. BUT I DON'T PAID, AND DON'T GET PROMOTED. SOME WOULD SAY I AM A SLAVE---NOT TO ARI, BUT TO LIBERTIES EDGE AND THE EAGLE KNIGHTS. AND I THINK YOU'LL ALL AGREE PATHFINDER MISSION CONSTITUTE A HAZEDROUS WORK ENVIROMENT. So I ask, do you know how either canidate stands on the ERFEPC (equal rights for extra planer creatures.) I will advise Ari to vote accordingly. Please sign my petition, I have donuts for all who do so.
NG“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.” ― Mahatma Gandhi
This thread will need a score card.
I prefer Oracles, Shamans, Witches, Druids because they "feel" like people who have an intimate relationship to the divine rather than being the officiant of a religion....like clerics tend to by default. For example, Joan of Arc feels like a NG Battle Oracle with a campaign specific "wrong gender" curse to me. Her relationship with the divine is speaking with Saints and Angels. The cleric's "default" relationship feels like four years of seminary. So I tend to play clerics who break this up and doesn't go with "the default". My PFS cleric is a Cleric of Groteus. He has the profession: beggar and carries a wooden holy symbol in the form a a piece of plywood tied by rope around his neck saying "the end is near". My theoretical cleric of Erastil is the town matchmaker, makes a mean pie (Clerics need more skills) and is friendly everyone and has bit of a country feel to her and who has been training her whole life rather than getting a "fancy" education. She could also be a rural cleric of Sheyln. So my answer is, any god who helps me break the mold and whose structure for the clerics doesn't feel too pre-defined. So Asmodeus, Besmara, and Iomedae are out, at least for me. Groteus, Sheyln, Erastil seem very 'open concept'. Desna, Cayden Caylen, and Milani seem somewhere in the middle of this continuum. Hope that makes sense.
I am against it wholesale. However, inspiration is cool. For example, I'm building a whimsy oracle based off twisted Disney Princess tropes and describing it a bugs bunny meets snow white. I'm using Whimsical Prank i.e. magical dirty tricks, and describing it as birds flying in with a pie each round, dropping a pie on opponenets heads, and flying off.
A half elf, bastard daughter of a Kyonin diplomat and a Taldan noblewoman. She was dumped at a hunting lodge in the Veradun forest with the hope that she would be quietly forgotten. Instead the fey decided to meddle. Whimsy Oracle or Feyspeaker Druid. A half elf, bastard daughter of a Kyonin diplomat and a Taldan noblewoman. Taken out of the way and trained as a swashbuckler in by a shifty noble for their own purposes. Swashbuckler.
I would look at Black Sails. It is very much a Law vs Chaos type show with many of the characters qualifying as Good or becoming Good (and other becoming less good). But Captain Flint, Billy, Miranda definitely qualify for good. Madi is good throughout and Silver arguably becomes good. Watch Firefly, and you can easily picture "good" Pirates existing, in that verse. It's a show about mostly CG smugglers after all. You can see the Rebels in the Star Wars Universe engaging in piracy for the greater good from time to time.
Does "ace " mean asexual in this context? I thought the first person using it was using it like "cool" or "rad." The only person I know to use Ace in that context was this Ace.
Is what it says on the tin. Basically, I designing a place which is cursed and I'm wondering how people would approach it. Some thoughts: The whole building is an intelligent cursed item. Setting is a demiplane with lingering effects. Setting has permanent magical effects in place. Basically, what rules would you use?
Not directly. But Baba Yaga is also linked to the fey, and the transformation of mortal maidens into swanmays through ritual, simular to the hag/changeling ritual would suggest a relation.
My read is that those hexes are in addition to the normal hex gained at level one, balancing out the bane.
Changeling young unchained rogue, age 13/eventual Oracle. Smuggled herself onto the boat to escape this strange old ugly lady who was following her around. Caught a week out. The party paladin has taken her under his wing and is trying to reform her, but she just realized she has claws. The whole party is playing young characters with npc parents/guardians and treating the whole thing like Stranger Things meets Pathfinder.
Hmm often asks the right questions-- I'll continue.
Mine come from a conversation I had this weekend with store coordinators like myself and a couple venture officers. All of the complaints came down to "This person or that person said that would never happen again" followed by us debating when Pathfinder 2.0 would come out because Starfinder is obviously a stealth playtest (Consensus, 2019 or 2020). Which underlies the problem of the Campaign management. They've got a credibility problem that is increasing because of a legacy of broken promises, less outreach by Paizo (fewer open playtests, the end of RPG Superstar) and finally the apparent overturning of established precedent with little to no explaination (Lore Warden). Yes, these are not all directly tied to the PFS, but they are symptoms of the same problem I believe. I also suspect that over time, being asked to look at every piece of minutia can get tiring and hearing from whiny players and perhaps worries about the bottom line. What they should do? Come clean. Explain you desicions and openly and forcefully address these problems. Since I suspect part of the problem is the workload, hire some people to deal with these "PR" issues. But be honest.
Campaign leadership feels that PFS players have abused their trust on some level. I know not everyone here is guilty and some examples are highly subjective as in "Look, I only did ten Aasimars. Mike Brock said it was okay!"
What we have to do is realise we've (collectively, I know I'm perfect in my modest opinion) fed the paranoia. What we can do? When we see someone acting entitled, ask them, is it worth it? Talk about the history with new players so they understand the "why" of why things are do your part to prevent petty crap from hitting the desk of our campaign organizers. Keep our arguments civil. Don't call people liars or assume bad faith unless you have a real good reason to, and even then let them hang themselves rather than cutting people down. Basically, be excellent to each other.
I did this in PFS, and bought the appropriate vanities (squire, herold) to represent the kids "going on educational expeditions/family outings". It also helps that Spoiler: .
character is a Summoner and Mum's his Eidolon Same concept might work for a spiritualist even better. Also, something like Kingmaker where the family lives in the settlement and supplies replacement PCs/leadership cohorts might be fun.
I am a player of not one but two old school Summoners (one has a non combat Eidolon) so while I don't have skin in this game, I know what skin means to people. That said I totally understood that there was a reason why Summoners were eventually banned. There was a clamoring for it from the bottom up and leadership eventually responded. They were also sensitive to the desires of those who had started characters (and bluntly, neither of my characters flavor would have translated well). There seems to be no clamoring to change the Lore Warden. Quite the opposite in fact; many asking why the heck are they messing with it. Many are citing both flavor and mechanical reasons for it's retention. In that context, how can campaign leadership not either grandfather or allow the both versions of the Lore Warden?
If I finish my cross time transporter, we will be able to murder hobo alternative realities for resources AND answer this question. And I want a Columbian Mammoth herd.
Pathfinder is a living game. And life is change. Until it goes the way of 3.5, you WILL see change, for better or for worse. If things don't change for a long time, don't have a continuing controversy about whether they should be legal, unlike say the classic summoner, there is a reasonable assumption that settled rules will remain settled. Players need to be able to make reasonable assumptions that settled rules will remain stable or have some hint that they won't, and be willing to take the risk anyway (I did this with a Summoner w/ a non combat Eidolon). Nerfs that catch people by surprise erode trust and goodwill and thus should be avoided. Many of the Nerf of late seem to fall into this category based on the existence of this thread. Therefore simply saying that "things change" is not an adequate answer.
The two classes each represent the Gunslinger being more defined around a specific idea but at odds about how to define the Gunslinger. Thus I'm really conflicted, as calling either one Gunslinger +1 pushes the other into "just another archetype" territory.I'd be wary of assuming that every non-archetyped class has a specific concept. Gunslinger may ultimately exist around "use guns", and when you can't point to one concept of "gunslinger" it just means you're trying to narrow down something that isn't narrow. I agree and I find myself enjoying making Characters being whatever. I have a pfs cleric of groetus, who has profession:begger and a holy symbol flavored as a wooden plank that says "the end is near". Someone else could make a cleric or whatever totally different. You don't need an archetype (though it may help mecanically), what makes your character is your ability to play the character, period. Archetypes that flavor in a way that fit a specific version of the class may be useful, but they don't make them representative of all the possibilities.
Interestingly, in my head cannon the reason why half races are rare as individuals but are common as adventuers is because they, in many cases can't help but being outcasts to some degree. So while they make up 1% of the population, 50% of all half breeds are adventuers.
I'm starting a half elf who is beginning his adventuering career at age 100 because he's starting to see his grandchildren die of old age. I got the idea for the Arodenite bishop of Oppara who is a half elf and one of the few mortals alive who cast spells in his name.
I usually find a few things that make the character who they are and race can be a factor, especially with the half races, the plane touched, and changelings. The reason behind this is their difference sets them apart. My half elf summoner is a summoner because she longed for a friend who didn't "outgrow" her. When a dimensional rift opened in her chicken coop, she intuitive attached it to herself and therefore the creature who always comes out. My half orc had the a light spell placed in her room by the Cheliaxian nuns who raised her so she didn't gain the "unfair" advantage of darkvision. As a result, she read under the sheets all the time and turned into a bookworm. My human bone Oracle earned the romantic interest of Zypus while attending the premere performance of Among the Living where Zombies killed her brother. Race is not a factor for what make her her, so she's human. Basically, like others before stated, play a character who is person rather than a stereotype. |
