Kavlor's page

Again, I don't think we shouldn't strive to create cool and awesome things. It's just that I think a professional company like Paizo shouldn't create content impulsively, but rather with a mindset of "how will this expansion improve the player experience?"

I'll just try to explain what exactly I'm having trouble with, addressing both my personal biases and what I consider a more objective issue.

My gripe with races like the Shisk, Kashrishi, and Goloma is that, in my opinion, they're created without any stated purpose. Simply because the creators thought it was a cool or funny idea at the time. And then they either dismiss it as a failure or simply get distracted by other concepts, overlooking them in other materials. This applies to a lesser extent to some other races that I find more successful and interesting, like the Surki, but nonetheless. This is, at least, my subjective impression of these races.

The first problem I encounter with these races is that it's not entirely clear what fantasy they appeal to and how they could be used to interest others. Two points intersect here:
1. They are completely original, not borrowing material from real mythology and culture or other iconic fantasy.
2. In 2nd Edition, due to changes in how races work, authors have significantly less opportunity to describe the cultures of various peoples in detail.

This means that such races often lack detailed descriptions, even descriptions outside of Paizo's materials. This makes it unclear how to use them and what their purpose is beyond their immediate gameplay mechanics.

Yes, I understand that the change in the amount of text required per race in 2nd Edition is an objective factor, and it's not reasonable to demand that all races receive a detailed ten-page description of their culture and habitat. But it's precisely these races that suffer the most from this inability to do so.

If we're talking about iconic creatures from mythology like centaurs and minotaurs, players may already be familiar with this concept from many other sources, desire its implementation, and understand how to work with it. Or, if less European, sarangai and anadi.

On the other hand, hobgoblins and bugbears didn't receive much detailed description from Paizo in 2nd Edition. But they are iconic creatures from D&D, encountered in many places, and you can get a rough idea of ​​what to expect from them from other fantasy settings.

But what is a Shisk? What excites them? Why should I play one? How do they interact even with the inhabitants of their own region? There are no answers to these questions, and we can only speculate.

That's precisely why I personally advocate adding either real mythological creatures, iconic fantasy creatures, or variations of 1st Edition creatures. Because I believe it's worth recognizing the limitations imposed by the 2nd Edition format and not trying to game them, but embracing and adapting to them.

Similarly, due to the lack of all the above-mentioned questions, and probably due to the need to invent them, we rarely encounter original Paizo races. And even when we do, they're usually isolated individuals, like the Konrasu and the Awakened Beasts in Wildwood, rather than fully-fledged cultures and societies.

My personal dissatisfaction with them is that I'm not a big fan of the "Mos Eisley cantina vibe" when applied to fantasy. I agree that fantasy can be extremely diverse, given the diversity of real historical cultures. But in my view, it's better to strive to emulate the representations of these cultures in production rather than attempt to create something entirely new. After all, fantasy largely stems from a desire to emulate the past and folklore.

That said, I certainly don't think original races are a bad thing. I fully support the vast diversity of species in Starfinder. In this case, the local, alien, strange, and extremely diverse Galaxy is precisely what perfectly meets the requirement that Starfinder strives to fulfill. Especially since, unlike the single planet in the case of Golarion, which isn't really all that large, the Galaxy is vast enough that races exist in the background, and we barely consider interactions with them.

In any case, I personally don't quite understand the point of adding original races like the Shisk and Goloma.

I mean, my slight disagreement with their inclusion stems from a simple principle: they exist essentially separately and aren't integrated into the setting. For example, I don't recall these two races taking part in any other adventures. Furthermore, they were given very brief descriptions, without giving us a full introduction to them, their way of life, and much more, unlike many of the aforementioned cultures of the Mwangi Expanse. And they seem to have no connection to real mythology or imagery, allowing players to draw upon the missing information.

Ultimately, I get the feeling they exist in the setting solely to increase the overall number of playable races, and nothing more.

I don't mean to say I'm categorically against them; sometimes they do produce interesting concepts. But I'm trying to understand why they're added and then not used or developed? And are there even fans of adding new races like these?

So Earth laws? Earth norms? And a bit modern at that. It's better than nothing, but do we have anything from Golarion/Paizo? What standards are devs using? Is there even univocality among them? Is the lack why we're seeing what some think are discrepancies?

I'm not a fan of applying modern moral standards to fantasy and the Pathfinder universe, which is a more archaic setting. I was simply trying to show that, from a purely legal standpoint, many other stories and adventures in the universe are no better by those same modern legal definitions. Therefore, the thread's author's position, in my view, isn't the most logically consistent, and therefore I disagree with the idea that future adventures need to be adjusted to reflect this position.

Are you implying that restricting religious freedom is okay?

Like even in fantasy context, its basically saying "You can't idolize or be fan of someone" since fantasy religions are kind of glorified celebrity fandoms

Well, strictly speaking, I can understand their motivation. The gods are extremely powerful forces that exert their will on the world, but mortals have no way to hold them accountable for the consequences of their influence. At the same time, divine casters, especially clerics, are conscious servants of these gods, their interests, and their goals. These may not necessarily serve the good of the country, even if they remain technically legal. In fact, such views have some similarities to the idea of ​​a citizen of a state being accused of treason for acting in the interests of a foreign power. Because while in the real world, religious matters are largely a matter of personal views and social values, here they are a much more complex matter. So the Pure Legion's views are certainly extreme, but I believe there is a grain of truth to them.

Like, when worshiping and wanting to serve a god gives you the ability to throw fireballs, it stops being a matter of just personal choice and becomes a matter of public safety, just like any other possible regulation of magic training or weapon ownership.

Furthermore, I'll say that I personally don't see any real problem with us playing as mercenaries, as the events of the AP have repeatedly drawn us into actions that would be considered questionable, to put it mildly.

For example, in the case of the Hell Rebels, we're essentially organizing a terrorist organization from a formal legal perspective. And Hellbreakers storgly repeat this.

And in the case of Ironfang Invastion, and in general with all Nimrathas military forces, they are largely unlawful combatants, as they don't wear uniforms that identify them as combatants, nor are they in the chain of command of the government. Many Nimrathas forces and the player squad in this AP effectively acted on their own initiative. And because of this, they, like most guerrilla forces, are formally unlawful combatants without usual immunity for actions for combatants.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that while we are clearly mercenaries in this mission, the characters are not necessarily legally mercenaries, as the following criteria must be met by Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1977 (Article 47), which is the main international document on this issue:

1. Specifically recruited (locally or abroad) to participate in an armed conflict.
2. Actual direct participation in hostilities.
3. Motivation is primarily private gain, and the promised financial compensation significantly exceeds the pay of regular military personnel of similar rank.
4. Not a citizen of a party to the conflict and does not reside in territory controlled by a party to the conflict.
5. Not a member of the armed forces of a party to the conflict.
6. Not sent by a state not party to the conflict in an official capacity (as a member of its armed forces).

Personally, I believe the third rule is likely not met here, and the fourth may very well not be, depending on the characters. Moreover, being a mercenary is not actually an automatic crime under international law. International Convention against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries of 1989 and the African Convention of 1977 can hardly claim the status of globally important sources of international law due to the fact that they are recognized only by a very small number of countries.

I'll note my point that I'd prefer the game adhere to a definition of morality and the concept of "war crime" no later than the seventeenth century. Otherwise, fantasy reminiscent of the past simply becomes modernity in a less technologically advanced world. This is important to me because such things represent a problem in that my suspension of disbelief simply ceases to function. Frankly, with many elements of the second edition, I find it difficult to believe that a world built on such principles would work.

I'd like to point out that, at least in my personal opinion, the decision to remove slavery from the setting was largely mistaken, so I don't share your opinion.

Secondly, it's questionable, to say the least, to try to assert standard Earthly concepts of "war crimes" in a more archaic world. Especially in categories like the ones you've presented, such as prohibiting false surrenders or conducting reconnaissance operations without uniform, disguised as civilians.

This would be a shame for multiple reasons—Rahadoum should be able to restore its territorial integrity, and realistically it is much stronger than a newly-constituted Corentyne state and should be able to just seize the place. But you are probably right—Paizo's description of how the locals resent and fear the Pure Legion and prefer an alternative seems to be setting up the place to fall under Corentyn as a matter of self-determination, even if it's the self-determination of Orani pied-noirs or Capetown Afrikaners.

I'm wondering if Khari could become an independent city-state as a neutral territory? Something like Tangier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier_International_Zone

Kavlor wrote:

Although I still have a question about why the books are so different in tone and narrative. I mean, they were obviously developed by the same company and written simultaneously, but it feels as if each book was written with a different artistic vision. At least, that's my expectation based on the available information.

This one is easy for me : Hellfire dispatches is the story Paizo wants to tell, and maybe even play, internally.

While Hellbreakers is the AP they want / need to sell.

Well, if that's the reason, I think it's rather sad, because I'd like to see more serious, bold, and mature stories. I agree that the first edition had serious problems, but the alternative isn't particularly good either, as the end result would be very bland.

I am curious what is the issue with Hellbreakers?

I have my reasons, but they mainly stem from the fact that, in my personal view, Hellbreakers oversimplifies certain themes.

For example, I thought the resolution of the goblin relationship in the adventure was overly simplistic, even though relatively recently (at least for humans) the two sides were fighting a near-war of extermination, and there are still many people alive who witnessed that war and were deeply affected by it, whether through personal trauma or the loss of family. I wasn't convinced by how the conflict would be resolved relatively easy after all that had happened for both sides, at least how book portrait.

Similarly, there were s other details. For example, I was somewhat dissatisfied with the portrayal of the Hellknights. Caedo, personally, didn't seem like a very good example of a Hellknight (especially compared to Owlcat's Regill), nor was he a particularly memorable villain. Compared to, say, Hell Rebells, I think Barzilai is much more impressive.

Overall, the overall tone of the adventure about fighting evil is quite optimistic and, in my opinion, somewhat naive.

Again, these are my personal complaints, but I do admit that the adventure, on the other hand, avoids many of the more straightforward problems found in some other APs. For example, there's sometimes a discrepancy between the AP's advertising and the actual plot, as was the case with Wardens of Wildwood. Or there are abrupt changes in the story, events, and characters' goals, as was the case, for example, in Second Darkness and Gatewalkers. In this regard, I have no complaints; the events follow logically from the premises, and there are no major revelations that necessitate abandoning everything that came before.

I'd like to point out that the available war notes from Hellfire Dispatches show that it's actually a very good book, especially compared to Hellbreakers, which I personally have a very low opinion of due to its simplification of many complex topics. But Hellfire Dispatches actually presents a very sober view of the war effort, without excessively glorifying the brave and kind people of Andoran fighting against Cheliax. Here is lore compilation from book: https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/1s2fcu5/lost_omens_hellfire_ dispatches_lore_updates/

If you look at the Hell Knights, you see that their position is quite logical, given their views. Nail, Torrent, and Scar are located outside of Cheliax, so naturally they refused to follow orders. Godclaw... personally, I expected a schism and at least partial allegiance to Cheliax from them, but I can understand their neutrality. Finally, Pike aren't all that bad, and I can understand why they act the way they do.

On the other hand, Gate is too closely associated with diabolism. Pyre and Rack are ideological accomplices of the crown. Glyph are hardly full-fledged Hellknights, while Line was specifically formed from loyalists. Finally, I personally believe the Wall are not particularly happy to submit to the crown, but they didn't have much of a choice. After all, when your order was formed to defend a specific city, and an army is advancing on it, deserting would be a direct violation of your oath.

I can also understand why Scourge and Chain are divided, although I expected a more determined and stubborn resistance from Scourge. On the other hand, I'm interested in the fate of Chain citadel, as it held not only innocent political prisoners but also absolute scumbags who are quite difficult to kill by conventional means and require magical means to contain. A prison riot in such a situation promises to be... interesting.

On the other hand, Andoran is also portrayed as quite uneven, as various factions of the Eagle Knights are in conflict with each other. The very adherence to democracy in a wartime environment may be questionable. Tieflings are lynched simply based on their skin color and suspicion, while the Lumber Consortium profits. It's a very good and believable demonstration of democracy in a wartime environment. The only thing missing is former aristocrats somehow assisting Cheliax.

At the same time, unstated but quite obvious underhanded actions are evident. For example, the Duke of Taldor blocked the Sellen River under the ostensible goal of preventing the war from escalating, taking advantage of the princess's inactivity, but actually harming Andoran and aiding Cheliax with his actions.

Andoran itself is reluctant to enter into direct and open conflict with Taldor, nor are its potential allies. So Galt, Highhelm, and Kyonin are gathering the Bellis Company with their "volunteers" (roughly equivalent to the Chinese troops in Korea) to assist Andoran with a formally unaffiliated group, without committing their forces to the main front.

I'm somewhat concerned that Andoran is seeking help from the Shackles, as they're primarily useful against enemy trade, not against a real fleet. Each pirate captain is interested in their own gain, not in achieving Andoran's goal of victory in the war. Realistically, I'd expect 50% of the pirates to desert before reaching the theater of war, and the remaining 50% to plunder everyone in sight instead of helping the war.

Plus, it's clearly shown that all the major powers in the region are reluctant to get involved in the conflict between the two states. Qadira and Taldor are only marginally involved, but Absalom, Osirion, and Katapesh are rightly reluctant to fight for each other's interests.

I like that it's quite accurately shown that not all Cheliax residents who don't want to rebel against the country are villains, slave traders, torturers, and commit other atrocities. For example, the Khari are even more repulsive to the alternative, and overall, this resonates realistically with the views of the European and Jewish populations in North Africa on the independence of these countries.

Plus, I was really pleased that this book eliminates the Hellbreakers' naive and optimistic outlook. Isger is now moving more toward a failed state fragmented into many parts. The League has nominally won, but individual cities care more about themselves than the country as a whole, and they don't even control the capital. The goblins want the humans expelled, and I'm glad about that, because the AP, in my opinion, portrayed the end of the war's legacy, which almost reached genocide, as overly simplistic. We're left with worshipers of Asmodeus who refuse to leave, and then there's the Iron Rose. Plus, Isger's army is completely uncontrolled and acts independently.

I think it's generally clear that the conflicts with Molthune and Nidal won't end with Hell Destiny, though I expect the war between Andoran and Cheliax to end with this book. Moreover, the rebellion against Nidal will likely end in failure or at least a stalemate. Otherwise, there would be no point in a book about the region that explores its post-war geography and politics.

I still hope that, judging by the descriptions of Hell Destiny and the upcoming Cheliax book, the infernal monarchy will lose. I still claim that a world in which Cheliax had won this war would be much more interesting. But I'm at least convinced that this book takes a very sober approach to its depiction of war. If Hellbreakers is a 3/10 for me, then I expect Hellfire Dispatches to be an 8/10.

Although I still have a question about why the books are so different in tone and narrative. I mean, they were obviously developed by the same company and written simultaneously, but it feels as if each book was written with a different artistic vision. At least, that's my expectation based on the available information.

Does anyone know what each of the Kardaji Bay nations are based on? I don't know that much about bronze age civilisations and would love to do some research.

IMO:

Midea, Theiron and Mishirya - greek colonies in Asia
Khattib - something new to Mesopotamia or Elam
Hukaris - Assyrian or Akkad
Unbroken League - mix of above

A set of thoughts regarding the Padishah Empire of Kelesh, as we now know much more about it and its people, thanks to the latest AP release. We've received information on six new satrapies of the Padishah Empire of Kelesh, so we now have at least minimal information on ten of the fourteen states that made up the empire, plus the remaining lands under direct imperial control.

Below is a collection of my observations and conclusions:

* The Althameri are one of the main peoples of the empire, likely dominant in the Ayyarad satrapy, as well as in the central lands of the empire. Drawing analogies from real history, they seem to me more similar to various Iranian-speaking Scythian peoples, such as the Sakas and Pathrans.
* The Aishmayar are the population of the Mishyria satrapy, or rather its ancient inhabitants, who have since become known as Mishyrians, as well as Beshzens. We've already established their satrapy. They seemed to me a very strange mix of religious beliefs, in some ways even reminiscent of Mycenaean Greece.
* Khattibi - quite obviously, these are the indigenous population of the satrapy of Khattib, in addition to the Vudrani who also live there (since it directly borders it). They have a very strange vibe based on the descriptions. The temple cities in the jungle and the geographical location somehow make me think of something like the city-states of the Indus Valley civilization.
* Midean - the population of the satrapies of Midea and Thieron, Greek settlers living in Asia. This fact was a big surprise to me, as I thought Midea would be closer to the culture of Kelesh and Ninshabur. After all, Kelesh is clearly Persia, and its historical enemy was Media, which is very consistent with Midea.
* The Susianam are a people who most likely lack a satrapy and are distributed along the entire southern coast of Casmaron, primarily inhabiting Khattib. I don't know anything about them, so I can't draw any conclusions.
* The Tzorehiyi are a people who inhabit the steppes and plains of the Padishah Empire. Their ethnic satrapy is likely the previously mentioned Zelshabbar on the border with the Grass Sea, or they live in the Whistling Plains; I'm not sure of their location. They are possibly related to the Althameri and Karas.

The Qadira are of pre-Keleshitic origin, which later assimilated into settlers from all over the Padishah Empire. Tirakawhan is located in Garund, so the indigenous population is most likely dominant there. I like to think of this place as analogous to Zanzibar. The Hukaris population is primarily descended from Ninshaburians and is possibly one of the largest groups with their presence. The Unbroken League is a mix of city-states, with different groups having Midian, Ninshaburian, and Khattibi origins.

This is what we already know about the various satrapies. Beyond this, there are also other ethnic groups for the remaining four satrapies, which have not yet been mentioned anywhere.

* Amai Birti - definitely do not have their own satrapy
* Jalunahs and Qalahs - may very well have their own satrapies.
* Ninshaburians, Yenchaburians, and Karas groups within the empire may also have their own lands, depending on how far east and north the empire extends.
* It's difficult for me to comment on the Casmar people, as there is virtually no information about them, nor about their way of life.

I believe the Empire at least nominally lays claim to the Whistling Plains, Windswept Wastes, and the Parchlands, but likely holds no tangible, de facto control over them. This means that Kelesh likely lacks true and complete control over the southern coast of the Castrovin Sea. They may have trading ports connected to the rest of the Empire via rivers, but it's unlikely they have complete control over the area. On the other hand, Kelesh has no authority over Kaskkari or the Grass Sea.

Of non-human groups, we know that dwarves inhabit Qadira. The Empire likely has a significant number of centaurs. Cyclopes, fauns, harpies, and minotaurs are likely present in the southern coastal lands. Khattib and the Unbroken League are likely the primary habitats of the Kashrishi. A certain number of catfolk and lizardfolk inhabit the central deserts.

Oh, so Tolkien was the one who made hobgoblins a type of goblin after all? It seems this wasn't a creation of Wizards of the Coast. And thus, it is entirely okay for Paizo to make hobgoblins related to goblins.

There is a funny detail connected with this. The thing is that the word "goblin" as well as the prefix "hob" existed in the English language before. However, Tolkien made one unique mistake that determined the entire appearance of the hobgoblins. The thing is that the prefix "hob" in English means the fact that this creature is smaller than normal. So Tolkien literally created his main creation "hobbits". However, in the case of "hobgoblin" Tolkien made a mistake by saying that hobgoblins are taller than ordinary goblins, although in his letters he noted that it should be the other way around. And thus, in all fantasy, hobgoblins in their modern form were formed as taller relatives of goblins.

I still think we need Shifter class as class Archetype for Druids that would make them decent martials.

With Tar-Baphon to the north and Cheliax to the West that starts to put some major strain on The Shining Kingdoms and the southern Kingdoms of The Eye of Dread. How will Andoran work as a group of 'Plucky Rebels' rather than a nation? Will the Eagle Knights make some uncomfortable choices if it means defeating Cheliax? Maybe Nirmanthas and Oprak are able to bury the hatchet after Ironfang Invasion to stand up against a resurgent Cheliax, or will they be ground between the Lich and the evil empire? If Andoran falls, can Eutropia's Taldor and Kyonin, ravaged from their fight against Treerazer, pull themselves together from their recent troubles in time to push back the literal legions of hell?

I absolutely agree. The only thing that could compare to Andoran's victory in my opinion is if Cheliax literally became a copy of Germany after WWII, in a situation where Andoran and other parties to the conflict begin to cooperate with yesterday's bureaucrats of the regime simply because they need to somehow manage the lands. In exchange for the secrets of Asmodeus, Andoran provides a generous amnesty program for yesterday's devils and aristocrats. The country is divided into military occupation zones. A separate part of the country is made an independent state for halflings, evicting all humans from there. The underground of infernalists is extensive and present in all major cities of the country, organizing the evacuation of former supporters of the monarchy in Bloodcove.

This would be an interesting setting, and an extremely dark one, which I would gladly watch. But I doubt that we will ever show Andoran in this form.

In fact, my biggest hope is that Cheliax wins the war. Because I think, quite unironically, that would be a more interesting storyline than the standard victory of good in the form of Andoran.

Thought of another ancestry that might make sense in the Pathfinder setting. And what about the Selkie? A good choice for an aquatic race that doesn't lose on land.

2) Aiuvarin should require that your ancestry is not Elf, and Dromaar should require that your base ancestry is not Orc. Because an Elf with 2 Elven parents or an Orc with 2 Orcish parents is just an Elf/Orc, respectively.

Actually, I don't quite agree. It allows you to play a character who only has a small portion of his bloodline that is not, say, elven. For example, a character who is 3/4 or 7/8 elf could be an elf with half-elf bloodline.

Some thoughts on who else could be in the playable races list:

Harpies - Let's be honest, they are basically the race we all think of when we think of flying people. And they would fit the theme of Casmaron perfectly. My main hope is that they will remain monogender. Especially since we already have the Surki.

Cyclops - Pathfinder has already done some work fleshing out the Cyclopes, and I could see an opportunity to give them their own flair in the setting. Especially given their innate talent for prophecy. A big ancestry intended for casters?

Fauns - The last of the folk from classical Greek mythology, but this time more closely related to the fairies.

Urmahlullu - Essentially the Wemics from Mesopotamian mythology. Haven't appeared in the Pathfinder universe, but let's be honest, I'd consider them a nice addition.

Fairy-Touched: I think we're missing a lineage like this that covers possible offspring from interbreeding with different varieties of fairies. Probably a Nephilim variety.

Garuda -- I think when it comes to Woodra, another type of flying ancestor would make a lot of sense for that region. Especially since they're already in the local mythology, and we know how much Pathfinder loves to plunder mythologies from around the world for playable races.

Rakshasa spawn -- I'm not really that excited about these, but I'm more interested in seeing how Paizo implements them. I liked how they handled the Oni, and now I want to see Rakshasa. And to be fair, I would like to see more demons, simply because I like the narrative of the war between the gods and titans at the dawn of creation, and the demons trying to turn humanity away from the worship of the gods in favor of the fallen titans.

For the gnomes, I would like to be able to play as the gnomes who survived the Bleaching. And perhaps something more aquatic-themed. Perhaps something inspired by turtles or crabs? Or, if I recall, there are myths in Korea that can be interpreted as merfolk whose lower body is not a fish, but an octopus. That could be an interesting option.

Well, my interest: Golden Road, Shining Kingdoms, Old Cheliax > Casmaron > other Avistan > Tian Xia > Garund > Arcadia.

I am very interested in what the society and cultures of the Padishah Empire might be like. For example, it could easily have a satrapy of civilized harpies.

I just had an idea for a great sports-themed AP that easily turns into a political thriller.

If Taldor is an obvious analog of the Byzantine Empire, then it's easy to remember the most important sport in Byzantium. Chariot racing, which provoked urban riots of thousands in Constantinople.

So the AP on this topic starts with a relatively low-level story about the rivalry between sports teams and the dirty tricks of the opponents. But then things get much more interesting as details are revealed about the backers of our opponents and their plans to cause urban riots in Oppara and overthrow the ruler of the country.

Dungeon crawls also have one problem that prevents me from enjoying them. The thing is that most of the dungeon feels like a forced obstacle on the way to the final point, and does not involve the players in any way.

How much would it have changed if the group had simply teleported to the very bottom of the dungeon and killed the final boss, ignoring the minions on the way? I understand the limitations related to the level and power of the character, but let's ignore them.

Seven Dooms, as far as I know, managed to alleviate this problem somewhat. Each of the dungeon levels had a threat that could destroy Sandpoint, so it made sense for the players to participate in all of it. But most APs like this do not have this.

In that case, I'll note that from the perspective of my DM and my fellow tablemates, we'll probably skip this AP. Dungeon crawls are probably one of the least interesting types of adventures for us. Nothing personal, but it's just not our thing.

It's been a while since this thread was last updated, so I wanted to recap the progress of these predictions and what each story means.

Sky King Tomb: I think it has to do with the line "Great legacies reclaimed when they were thought lost", given the ending of this story.

Season of Ghosts: definitely "A humble village grows where there was nothing before", there are very few alternatives.

Seven Dooms of Sandpoint: no alternatives "An immense red bird rains fire on a small town"

Wardens of Wildwood: it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly what line is hinting at these events. Maybe "The return of great evils thought lost to time"?

Curtain Call: in the case of this story, I think the correct comparison would be "Beloved mortal entertainers make some deities laugh with delight, but others consume them and choke them with cruelty". Fits the operatic theme and direct involvement with the gods very well.

Triumph of the Tusk: It's hard to pin down given how little we know about these events. Maybe "Old gods fall and new gods rise in their place" or "Ultimate power within the grasp of almost countless hands" given the general events of the War of the Immortals that will be touched upon here?

Spore War: No guesswork here, it's definitely "A pale cataclysm ravages the lands, leaving corruption and tangled thorns in its wake".

Shades of Blood: Even given how little we know right now, this is an easy guess. "New lands rise from the ashes of ancient civilizations".

This leaves me with a few questions. Where do Rusthenge, Prey for Death, and the new Gravelands adventure fit into this paradigm? Anyone have any clues?

And of course, we still have a few phrases that I didn't connect to anything:

1) Two great powers declare war, and many neighbors have to pick sides
2) The sun destroyed
3) They see countless spirits shrieking in agony
4) A crowned phoenix with a peacock tail, whose return heralds vengeance upon the world

I'm most interested in events 1 and 4, to be honest. I like big wars because they have to change a lot (otherwise there's no point in them), and I also want to see Xandergul again. Oh, and the death of the Sun is interesting too. The only thing that worries me about this situation is that options 2 and 4 clearly involve high-level adventures, considering that we're unlikely to be in secondary roles against Xandergul, just as apocalyptic events like the destruction of the sun are likely to be at level 20 and possibly even with mythic rules.

I'll be honest - I'm not the biggest fan of this book. Some information would have been nice, but I would have appreciated a regional guide to Avistan much more.

6) Legislative introduction of equality between the inhabitants of the prefectures and provinces, providing them with equal protection and rights in accordance with imperial laws.

Do we have more information about lands outside the Inner Sea such as Droon or Iblydos? Also, do we have more information about The Wardens of the Wild?

CastleDour wrote:

I am so excited about this article on Norgorber! We may finally learn about his background as a mortal. I can never get enough of him!!! Thank you Paizo.

There comes the reveal of the three evil halflings behind the curtains of Norgorber.

This is heresy. Everyone knows that there are four halflings.

I note that in such a situation, Rahadoum can safely remind neighboring nations of the problems that following the will of the gods has led them to. And they could abandon this stupid practice, like the residents of Rahadoum. Because the gods can give orders to their priests, however, the nations of Golarion do not yet have the ability to call the gods to court so that they answer for all their crimes,

My guess at the moment. Gorum's murder is the result of a conspiracy. It definitely involves Szuriel, Norgorber, Razmir, and possibly Moloch.

In Prey for Death we kill Razmir and learn about the existence of a conspiracy, but without any details. I'm guessing that Razmir was somehow planning to gain godhood through this ritual, we have hints that Razmir has been planning to make himself a full-fledged god for a long time, and the level range is suitable for fighting him.

In Curtain Call, I suspect our opera will turn out to be connected to Norgorber's ritual to weaken and secretly kill Gorum. We fail to disrupt most of the preparations, but we manage to notify Gorum of the impending attack, and he will take the battle over Golarion, during which he will be killed in an unequal battle, although Gorum will be able to show himself quite well.

These are my suspicions about the development of the plot at the moment. I won't put money on it, but I don't have any better options yet.

Well, I was initially very skeptical about this book, considering it a simple remaster, but if the volume has grown so much, then I think I will watch it much more carefully.

I will make the assumption that the concept of mythic destinies will be similar to the OwlCat game, and different mythic destinies will correspond to different planar forces that are involved in this process. Thus the apocalyptic rider is associated with Abaddon. And the undying legend is an analogue of the power of mortals, as was the Legend in the computer game. The remaining seven types of mythical leveling can also be associated with other main planes.

I decided to think about what adventures we had without changes, and where, on the contrary, these changes were present. Here's what I picked up.

Age of Ashes - from my point of view, this is a story with quite significant changes, since our ruling regime in one of the nations collapsed.
Extinction Curse, Agents of Edgewatch and Abomination Vaults are adventures on the main island of the setting, and the first two have extremely significant stakes. But I don't remember any of them having long lasting effects.
Fists of the Ruby Phoenix is also far from the most important. We saved the tournament, but we hardly changed the world.
Strength of Thousands - Quite important in my opinion, considering the person who returned to Golarion at the end of this story. This changes the entire balance of power in the region.
Quest for the Frozen Flame - I honestly don't see how this will change the fate of the region.
Outlaws of Alkenstar - The very purpose of the adventure here is to maintain the status quo.
Blood Lords - this could potentially make a huge difference. Geb is more of a reactive person than a proactive one, and a change in chancellor would make a huge difference. But he is replaced by players, and the story avoids specifying the personalities of the players. So I don't think there will be much change here.
Gatewalkers and Stolen Fate are extremely high stakes, but again the same problem. We maintain the status quo rather than change the world. More precisely, in the case of the second AP, serious changes can be made, but they are too invisible.
Sky King's Tomb - yes, definitely an extremely significant change in dwarven culture
Season of Ghosts and Seven Dooms for Sandpoint are, unfortunately, still stories of individual small settlements. In both cases there is a huge threat, but little change in the world.

The main thing that interests me is what type of Lost Omens material will be released.

We already know what the rulebook will be - mythic rules, two new classes, and a deity remaster.

I can roughly imagine what type of AP there will be - I expect at least one AP there, designed to use mythic rules. Possibly a six-parts, but from my point of view I can expect it to be up to level 20.

The main thing I'm interested in is what kind of Lost Omens material we'll get. A guide to the Outer Sphere? This is my easiest guess so far, but I would be glad to hear other options.

Another thing I think we're missing in the current era of AP is that stories no longer actively try to change the setting. APs of the first edition very often had a fundamental influence on the setting in their consequences. The emergence of several new nations, a change of rulers, the Fifth Crusade, the emergence of new gods, and several others.

Compared to this, the second edition stories, and especially the three-part stories, are less likely to me to look like things that can change the setting. Yes, they regularly have big stakes, but this is no longer a change from the status quo. Perhaps it would be better if three-part APs influenced subnational units? Changes in the individual city of Varsia. Or in one of the River Kingdoms?

Golarion is the prison for Rovagug. Almost all the forces in the universe are not interested in Rovagug being freed and starting the destruction of all things. So they reserve their strength and attention to supervise this dungeon, as well as the others who are watching. In addition, there are still some forces who want his release, and they are trying to resist them. So Golarion is a keg of gunpowder in divine politics, where the interests of almost every divine being in the setting are tied.

I'll support this discussion with the fact that removing Drow actually have lot of sense. The Warhammer analogy in this case is incorrect and cannot be used as a justification for keeping drow in the Pathfinder canon.

Dark elves in DnD are a people with purple skin and white hair who live underground. This is a consequence of divine intervention. They are divided into several city-states, ruled by noble aristocratic houses. The government is matriarchal. The main objects of worship goodess that connected with demons.

The Dark Elves in Warhammer are a people of pale-skinned, dark-haired elves who live on the surface. Power in it belongs to a relatively standard feudal formation, where the monarch is at the top of power. Their separation from the rest of the elves is not biological, but cultural. They worship a cruel pantheon of gods, who, however, are in no way connected with demons.

I think it's obvious which trope the drow in Pathfinder is closer to.

William Vaughn wrote:

My favorite part of this is they say its one of the skymetal dragons. That just makes me wonder what an abysium dragon would be like.

I'm personally curious about what a djezet dragon would be like, the only dragon naturally liquid at room temperature!

Dragon slime.

Now I hope to see a much more dangerous opponent - horacalcum dragon.

I decided to add another concept that popped into my head. In my opinion, such an AP would be a great addition to a book dedicated to the Hellknights, presenting their order as non-evil protagonists. In addition, this would be a good starting point to give more information about Rahadoum, since at the moment we know very little about this country.

Themes: Rahadoum, Hell Knights, lawful vs lawful.

Location: Khari

Background: After the end of the Glorius Reclamation conflict, Khari found itself under the control of the Rahadoum army. Nevertheless, the government was in no hurry to officially incorporate the city into the country. They were cautious due to the possible attack of Cheliax and concerns about a rebellion among the believers. Therefore, they decided to give the city temporary self-government under their patronage, retaining the possibility of worshiping deities, but under strict control.

To manage the city, they decided to turn to the Order of the Scourge, who are known for their impartiality and desire to find the true culprits. The Hellknights ruthlessly set about maintaining the city's fragile order, but gained respect through their neutrality among the followers of the city's two largest deities, Iomedae and Asmodeus.

A year ago, Malduoni decided to end the temporary position of the city of Khari, for which he sent a Pure Legion officer to study the situation in the city to make a final verdict. What he did not know, however, was the fact that his officer, as an active patriot of his country, decided to falsify reports and independently provoke a religious war in the city in order to prove the inability of believers to live according to the laws of the country.

Book 1 (levels 1-4): The PCs are a group of dottari led by Hellknights who are sent to investigate a murder. One of the veterans of the war against Glorius Reclamation was killed by a group posing as followers of the Iomedae seeking vengeance for their fallen comrades. It is necessary to investigate the circumstances of the murder, while two groups of believers are ready to start urban battles. Players need to act not only as detectives, but also as diplomats to communicate with the priests of Iomedae and Asmodeus, who don’t trust each others. Their final discovery is that a third party orchestrated the murder, although its motives are still unknown.

Book 2 (levels 5-7): The main culprit of what happened is faced with the failure of his plan to organize an uprising in the city, and decides to create conflict in a different way. One of the prohibitions on the part of Rahadoum was the ban on calling outsiders serving the gods. To this end, he attracts a group of arcanists who bind angels and devils to begin a battle between them on the streets of the city. The PCs must continue to search for the culprits, and when the outsiders find themselves on the streets of the city, their new task is to find those who carried out this, making their way through the battle-torn streets.

Book 3 (levels 8-10): A Pure Legion officer left Khari to build a case against the city's authorities when his true identity was revealed through the PC's efforts. The Hellknights command fears that this will be followed by an attack on Khari by the Pure Legion. Therefore, they ask the PC to go to the Legion military base where this officer is located in order to obtain guaranteed evidence of his machinations and deceit.

Conclusion: Through the efforts of Order of the Scourge and the PC, they manage to stop the conflict and prevent an attack on the city. Proof of the machinations of a Pure Legion officer is presented as proof that being too ideological can violate the Laws of Mortality much more reliably than worshiping a deity. This is the reason for Malduoni to declare Khari not part of Rahadoum, but an allied free city where worship of the gods will be allowed. In addition, the Hellknights are gaining popularity in the country itself for the success of the investigation, and the authorities of Rahadoum are now thinking about creating a new Order within the country.

At one time, I saw a thread on this forum where they suggested creating their own AP ideas that various people have in their heads. I propose to try to revive such a section.

I'll try to start with my own example.

Topic: Arcadia, daemons.

Location: Arcadia

Background: The ancient empire of Razatlan had lost much of its former power, but things began to change for the better when a new ruler came to power eighty years ago. Throughout most of his reign, he proved himself to be a great and wise sovereign, but he had one fear - the fear of death. In an attempt to cheat death, he tried to seek deals with many creatures, and one creature answered him - Charon. The Horseman agreed to keep his body alive in exchange for increasing sacrifices from among his enemies, forcing the Emperor of Razatlan to either sacrifice his political opponents or start wars to kill the people there. Due to the policy adopted in the city of Segada to limit the penetration of the inhabitants of Avistan deep into Arcadia, little was known about this, but a couple of weeks before the start of the AP, one of the Razatlan regiments captured Segada.

Book 1: The PCs are a group of natives of Arcadia from Elesomare hinterlands, recent arrivals from Avistan, and longtime residents of the Elesomare colony who have been sent to negotiate with the Cheliax Anchor's End colony. However, upon arrival at the colony, it turns out that the settlement was seriously damaged when a detachment from Segada arrived, plundered the colony and captured many of the inhabitants of the colony. Local residents have already sent a message to the metropolis about what happened. Players will have to help cope with the destruction in the colony itself, and then go to the city of Segada in order to understand the situation. Although they fail to rescue the captured colonists, they drive the empire's troops out of the city and learn general information about the empire.

Book 2: Even together, the forces of Segada, Elesomare and Anchor's End are unable to do anything against a large state, and therefore it is decided to send the PCs to search for a possible ally - the Ulfens from Port Valen. Fortunately, there is Sveinn Blood-Eagle in this settlement, who can become a worthy ally, but he has no plans to leave the settlement. The local colonists have poor relations with the locals, and the PCs must resolve the conflict either by making peace between them or by force.

Book 3: Andoran decided not to send an army to Arcadia, but Cheliax took advantage of the violation of the Segada Protocol to expand its influence. Meanwhile, Segada hears rumors that there is still active fighting against Razatlan on the other side of Arcadia, in Deadshot Lands. The PCs must cross enemy territory as a small group, helping the remaining pockets of resistance along the way.

Book 4: The PCs arrive in Deadshot Lands, where they must help the local inhabitants, as well as find a powerful relic that would indicate the PCs' role as protectors of Arcadia. How fortunate that rumors have recently spread about one such artifact - a Star Gun located in a tomb from ancient times. Players need to get inside the tomb, fighting both its defenders and competitors for possession of this artifact.

Book 5: The PCs have proven themselves worthy defenders of Arcadia and were able to unite various groups of Arcadia inhabitants and colonists against a common enemy. There is another bastion that could join their fight - the nation of Xopatl, which has been regaining its former prosperity over the past few years, where many of the clerics and champions of Kazutal, who are expelled from Razatlan, have also flocked. The PCs must earn their trust and learn of Charon's true plans.

Book 6: Charon's true intention was not to gain souls, but to force a talented ruler to spark numerous wars. Ultimately, Charon wishes to use the resulting destruction to open a semblance of Worldwound leading to Abaddon. With such a path leading to Golarion, the Horsemen of the Apocalypse would have a chance to break the prison of Rovagug and destroy the entire multiverse. To make matters worse, a suitable conflict threatens to begin very soon. The Cheliax fleet, transporting an entire army, has arrived at Anchor's End. Therefore, the PCs must prevent a large-scale war by infiltrating the capital of Razatlan and defeating the ruler before the war breaks out.

Conclusion: Although a major war was almost miraculously avoided, and the restoration of the Razatlan Empire would be dissolved after only a few years of existence, much has changed on the continent. Now the inhabitants of Arcadia learned much more about Avistan, as well as vice versa. International trade increases when Segada no longer has the ability to comply with the Protocol. However, the tension also increases. Cheliax begins building several forts for his forces on the new continent and creates a new order of Hellknights. Andoran rushes to join the race with Cheliax, securing his presence with military forces. Many other city-states and nations of Avistan open their trade missions.

In my opinion, this book would be a great addition to Lost Omens Arcadia, being a good journey through various parts of the continent, as well as breaking up one part of the canon that in my opinion prevents further delving into the continent. Namely, the low awareness of Avistan and Arcadia regarding each other and the restrictions imposed by Segada. It would also be the first adventure to feature daemons as the centerpiece of the story.

I have a question regarding the code for the paladins of Aroden, as well as what the anathema and edicts of this religion are. I know that at the moment Aroden is dead and therefore these issues were never raised in official materials, because the priests and paladins of Aroden no longer have powers, even if some of them are still alive. I am interested in this question in a historical context, since Aroden's death occurred relatively recently, and information about his faith should be readily available.

My opinion is that Aroden's code should contain some information regarding civilization and progress.

For example: I will never allow the bastion of civilization to be destroyed, just as Aroden preserved the remnants of humanity after Earthfall.

Or something like this: I pledge to help spread civilization and knowledge by spreading knowledge to all living people.

Is there anyone on this form who would like to help with this topic?