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The text of delay disease reads:
"The target becomes temporarily immune to disease. Any disease to which it is exposed during the spell's duration does not affect the target until the spell's duration has expired."

My question is: If a creature is exposed to a disease while under the spell, does it have to start making saving throws once the spell wears off? Or is it a temporary inoculation, and one only needs to make saves if it is exposed again after the spell's duration?

Mykull wrote:

Skulks and creepers aren't going to continue a kidnapping/slavery operation once they know that:

(a) Their hide-out is discovered.
(b) Their muscle in Kazmojen and hobgoblins are dead (presumably)
(c) The Underdark buyers are unreachable because they were Kazmojen's contacts.

As for the Keygan's key ring, I think it is very plausible that Kazmojen would not allow a lackey to carry around so valuable an item when not on mission. Just place the key ring on Kazmojen's body.

There is still the Starbrow conundrum. I mean, having them look for Keygan's familiar is a reasonable reason to explore Jzadirune.

"1 ) If they find the secret door, then give them a level for by-passing Jzadirune, because it basically exists to whittle resources and provide XP to level anyway."

Mykull, here is my reservation for this. It leaves the skulks and creepers in possession of Ghelve's key ring, and doesn't stop them from stealing and kidnapping others later. It also doesn't rescue Starbrow.

However, if they don't go back and clean up Jzadirune, I can always have the Stormblades do it.

I do like the idea of giving them "xp" for avoiding the resource drain.

One thing I didn't mention is that I am using the playtest rules, so I intend to level them at the "speed of plot" anyway.

I am running the game for some 14 to 15 year olds, all pretty green players. My question is, as I teach them to play, one thing I should disclose is searching for secret doors. But what if they find the door to the elevator right away, and skip Jzadirune entirely? First level characters may not last long down in the Malachite Hold.

Should I make the entrance to the elevators be only the one further in the complex?


There are some things I really like about the new rules. The downside is, I want to run a game for newer players, and I don't think the playtest is the best place for that. I'd like to run them through an old adventure path that I have using First Edition as a template, but blending some things into it.

For example, I really like the new action economy. I also like the way spells utilize said economy. I like the shield stuff. I even like the way concentrate works. I like that Bards can Inspire Courage all day. So I thought of blending some of that stuff in. What are your thoughts? Anyone else crazy like me? Any success they can tell me about? Failures?

It doesn't seem all that different from PF1 alchemist to me, honestly. Just using RP versus bombs per day, the 2e Alchemist can create twice as many bombs per day. Right?

1st ed was level plus Int mod. 2e has RP at the same rate, but you can also create twice as many, if you prep bombs.

My real beef is that mutagen comes online so much later.

Quick question:
Are you considering the items an alchemist can craft, without the use of RP, during Downtime? It seems to me that, as long as the alchemist succeeds on the craft check, and has the raw material costs necessary, he/she could create any number of consumables to be used on adventure, much like a wizard with scribe scroll.

You know, I see a lot of dissatisfaction with the Class Feats replacing standard class abilities. I think what some of you may be missing is that it seems they have melded archetypal changes to class abilities, switching something out for something else, into Class Feats. You can mix and match archetypes to create the type of character You want to play. And class feats seem to make this possible.

I'll be honest. I'm waiting out the playtest rules because I'm deciding which system I run next. It's between 5th edition, and PF2e.

I say this because I really like some of the things 5th ed has done, but I'm willing to see if Paizo can make changes that I like as much if not more. One of those changes is the Finesse weapon. I think that is an elegant solution to this dilemma.

One of the arguments I am seeing here is if the new rogue is Dex based only, it rules out Str oriented rogues. And the other argument, and what I love how Unchained fixed, was how rogues couldn't hit as accurately unless they were a little MAD. So I hope PF2e "steals" the finesse weapon idea. Problem solved.

And for those who argue that such weapons have less damage die... They should. I know PF is a fantasy game, and isn't tied to reality, but this just makes sense. A guy holding a rapier and a guy holding a greatsword are going to do different amount of damage, depending upon where and how hard the weapon hits. And thus, a rapier in the hands of a dexterous character who also happens to have studied o learned how to do a different type of attack will do a different type of damage than the hulking brute who hits someone as hard as she can with something sharp and heavy.

Former "black-ops" soldier "reincarnated" as a somewhat blind reluctant healer.

I'm digging this thread. But that's not all I came here to say.

I love spontaneous casters. But I've also always had a penchant for thematically building them. As a GM, I used to get pretty annoyed when a player would build a pyromancer of sorcerer and go, "But I know mage armor." Really?

But I then I got to thinking about "the nature of magic" and how things look. And I got less stuck on spells being exactly what they are. So now, if I build a caster, I tend to refluff a spell. Today, if I were playing a pyromancer, and I wanted mage armor on my list of spells known, I'd tell the GM, "So really, I want it to be essentially a heat related wall of force. It does exactly what the spell states, no added heat damage or anything, but I'm just manipulating fire to do the force armor thing."

When it comes to using materials...doesn't a sorcerer have eschew materials? So the bat guano and the swallowing a spider thing don't compute. I like the idea of feeling an affinity for the costly materials for adding necessary energy to spell.

I'm also all about refluffing now. I play an oracle. I won't bore you with the backstory, but know he isn't excited about being what he is, and doesn't even know why he can do the things he does. When he casts bless, his somatic component is to twirl his spear, and slam the butt onto the ground. His verbal component is to shout "Stand Firm", because he's a former soldier and that's just how he expels the energy necessary to cause the bless effect. I've told my DM about it, and likes it. We've even added the whole "whooshing air" effect as it extends out to the 50 ft area it affects.

Never mind. I see it. So the player would also have to take branding ray.

Conductive is a ranged quality. But once per round, you could do this as long as the brand judgment was active?

So let me ask this. Could the inquisitor get an additional 1d6+ Charisma bonus every time it lands a hit with the bow while the judgment is active? And if so, if said player takes the holy brand greater brand, does the weapon also do 1d6 + Charisma damage to creatures with the evil subtype?

The kinslayer archetype for a dhamphir has a judgment called brand that replaces the destruction judgment. At 1st level, a kinslayer gains the following judgment.

Slayer's Brand (Su)When using this judgment, the kinslayer gains the ability to brand undead creatures with positive energy. To do so, she must make a successful melee touch attack against the undead creature. This attack deals an amount of positive energy damage equal to 1d6 + the kinslayer's Charisma score, and burns her personal symbol into the undead creature's flesh, bone, or even its incorporeal form. From that point onward, the kinslayer can sense the existence of the branded creature as if it were the target of a locate creature spell (caster level equal to 1/2 the kinslayer's inquisitor level). A slayer's brand lasts until the undead creature is destroyed or until the kinslayer uses this ability on another creature. This ability replaces the destruction judgment.

So, when said judgment is active, it would be active until the combat is over. So, could it be used with a conductive weapon?

I really am looking for this with the kinsalyer's brand judgment. If that makes a difference. It is a melee touch attack and thus falls under the conductive sphere of ability. Just not sure if it would work because in the conductive text is mentions using up multiple uses to do it once, but as brand is active throughout a combat (as long as the inquisitor doesn't shift to a different judgment) I think it should work.

Can conductive weapons be used with judgments as they are always "on"?

I get that BCA is primarily a place for the noble youth of Cauldron to learn. And a place for PCs to research. But what if I end up with a player who came to the area to enroll in the academy? How would that work? It takes tuition, which a PC may not be able to afford, unless he well connected or has a patron. Thoughts?

I was wondering whether inspire competence worked with ability checks. (The contest is set up as Constitution checks. Not skills or Fortitude save based.)

Ah well...appreciate the help. Back to the drawing board...

Great feedback!

I like the idea of a perception check to notice the competing NPC suddenly seeming more competent.

As for the bard's performance itself... The NPC party is made up of nobles, so I have a hard time seeing her doing a "Chug! Chug!" bit. More likely she'd be singing and then, subtly insert inspire competence if she sees her ally lagging.

I don't necessarily want the NPC to win. I want there to be suspicion of cheating to cause tensions to heat between the two parties. Not like they could prove it, or even that it would be "cheating" to begin with. Just trying to fan the flames a bit.

Planning on running a "mini-game" during my campaign where a PC is pit against a NPC of a rival adventuring party in a drinking contest. Essentially, they make repeated Con checks until one fails and passes out. The rival party has a bard. To heighten the sense of competition, I was going to have the bard use Inspire Competence to help her party member win. As she would be "performing" all night, she'd just kick in her bardic performance when needed.

The question is: Would it be detectable? Would someone know she was "pushing" her party member to do better? If so, how?

It does look to have a lot of utility. With the right amount of prep...could ALMOST out Batman the wizard.

So this wandering hex gives them an additional known hex for the day? And wandering spirit gives them access to additional known spells for the spontaneous and prepared casting?

I have a player looking to run a shaman and I am having trouble grasping the mechanics of the way it gets hexes. Can someone help? Specifically, I don't get if it can only know the hexes granted on the class ability table or if it gains "free uses" somehow. Thanks!

So would you just rebuild Cora as a single class swashbuckler?

What is the point of taking the duelist prestige class when it seems as if the Swashbuckler hybrid class does it better?

And what about when gaining a level? If I understand correctly, at 2nd level, when the occultist has 3 implements, he knows 3 first level spells and 3 knacks, and he doesn't learn anymore spells until 4th level where he essentially learns 3 2nd level spells, but no new 1st level spells or knacks until 6th level when he picks up his 4th implement and for that he would learn one knack, one 1st level, and one 2nd level spell. Correct?

What about those schools with one knack? If you double (triple) up, do you just lose out on a knack?

My concern with range is, as I am taking the clouded vision curse, anything beyond 30 ft I can't see anyway. So I have to be within 30 feet to attack.

My current "default" attack plan....

Cast obscuring mist
Get close enough to use frostbite (nonlethal damage but gives the fatigued condition, no save) and then go from there.

The only other offensive spell I'll know is inflict light wounds. So I could spam that or take wintry touch, which seems to me, optimal or not, to fit the character concept better. Add to this mix that I intend on using the variant multiclassing from PF Unchained to get the Elemental bloodline, which at 7th level gives me, essentially, a ranged version of wintry touch.

That is kind of where I am going. My group isn't optimizers so it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.

I get Wintry Touch is suboptimal. It really is more for flavor than anything else. In the campaign we are playing in, there are different factions cooperating for a common goal. One faction is Winter of the Fae Courts. So, I am wanting to represent winter as it currently has no one on the team who is representing Winter.

I am going with melee touch because anything beyond 30 ft I can't see. Plan on using obscuring fog (hence the water sight) to give me a bit of an advantage.

Again, not optimizing...just sounds fun.

I am toying with the idea of running an oracle. I want the clouded vision curse and plan on using the Waves mystery. Going to use samsaran with the mystic past life trait to grab some cold spells from the druid list.

My question is whether I should choose Extra Revelation at first level to grab Wintry Touch (using 1st level revelation to grab water sight, trust me, it makes sense) or whether I should grab Combat Casting instead.

If I grab Combat Casting, I still have a chance to lose spells, but not as high as I would without it. With Wintry Touch, I don't need combat casting as the ability is Supernatural.


Thanks for the input, Guru. I told him that holy water doesn't heal living and thus cursed water doesn't heal undead. I am pretty comfortable with that.

Just wondering if anyone has ever/would ever be creative in that regard.

Again, thank you!

My son is 10 and currently plays at a table that I run with several adults. Not to say that he understands everything, but he has a lot of fun and doesn't bog the table down.

I think if you are worried about thebmatueity level of some modules, make something of your own. Even if it is a random dungeon crawl. My son loves Pathfinder. Your kids might as well.

I have a player who is running a dhamphir inquisitor. He's trying to think outside of the box in regards to healing. He thought since holy water hurts undead, cursed water should heal.

Now I am pretty sure the rules don't allow for this and I am comfortable with the idea of how positive/negative energy works. If holy water could also heal living, then I would be cool with allowing cursed water to heal undead.

So I know the rules say no. But I am asking for advice. It is a modern setting. Would you allow holy/cursed water to work as a minor healing potion in your game? And am I unreasonable in saying no? I allowed him to take the sin eater class feature in lieu of his domain. He has access to inflict wounds on his spell list, and fast healing works regardless of energy affinity.

On the other hand, we don't have a "dedicated healer" and I kind of like to reward out of the box thinking.


So I have decided on a tengu zen archer/inquisitor mix. Entering the scene at second level. Intending to take one more level of zen archer (free feats? Yes, please!)

My current build looks like this:
STR 15
DEX 19 (17 + 2 RACIAL)
CON 12 (14 -2 RACIAL)
INT 16
WIS 19 (17 + 2 Racial)
CHA 13

Taking Point Blank as first level feat, then Precise Shot as Bonus Zen Archer feat. I get Improved Unarmed Strike, Perfect Strike for free as well as flurry of blows with bow.

And then I will take a level of inquisitor. Plan on taking my 3rd level as zen archer to get Weapon Focus and Rapid Shot, and taking Focused Shot as my third level feat. I should be on track to have Snap Shot by 9th level.

Is the tradeoff of not having one spell less per spell level worth it considering we are doing an episodic campaign?


Dip one level (at first)into Zen Archer for the point blank/precise shot combo. Plus threaten ALL the time not just from bites but from unarmed strikes!!!

Tengu for this...

The setting is "modern" (ripping off ALOT from the Dresden files in terms of the Accords, White Council, Faerie Courts, etc.) and the team is a modified version of the Wardens, but having representatives from different "powers" of the Accords on it instead of just White Council wizards.

The party currently consists of two kitsune (a witch and ninja), a human druid, human alchemist, and a human paladin (Knight of the Cross). The idea is we will rotate GMs (I am the primary GM of our group) and the campaign will be episodic in nature.

So yeah...the idea of being a tengus inquisitor really appeals. I also really like the idea of the dwarf inquisitor idea too.

I love the Inquisitor class. In an upcoming campaign, I am going to reflavor him as a monster hunter. But I am torn between races. I am NOT looking at this from an optimizing perspective.

The races I am torn between are:
Human - Pro: Extra feat so I can be a bow wielding inquisitor and have point blank and precise shot from the get go.
Con: Party has three humans already and the story idea behind the campaign is to have a diverse group as monster hunters/protectors.

Elf - Pro: Nice bonuses to Dex and Int to help with range and skills. Being an alternate the aloofness potential.
Con: have to take Precise shot later and won't be quite as effective.

Dwarf: Pros: Bonus to Wisdom. Free access to dwarf weapons and can be a "get up in their grill" inquisitor thanks to a bump to Con. Fits into the party as an alternate race.
Con: Would be more melee focused than range.

Tengus - Pro: Similar to elf in exotic. Range and bump to casting stat. Lots of flavor involved.
Con: Same as elf...

So, thoughts?

Did twice, please delete this thread.

I am considering developing a changeling (green hag heritage) oracle (Wave Mystery)/ Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline water) as a potential character or a potential NPC. (My group is discussing revolving GMs).

I got to looking at Marid's mystery. It is a great single person debuff. But it what about as a buff? Could a caster cast create water, leaving a sizeable puddle on the floor for Marid's mystery to work?

I am considering developing a changeling (green hag heritage) oracle (Wave Mystery)/ Sorcerer (Elemental Bloodline water) as a potential character or a potential NPC. (My group is discussing revolving GMs).

I got to looking at Marie's mystery. It is a great single person rebuff. But it what about as a buff? Could a caster cast create water, leaving a sizeable puddle on the floor for Marid's mystery to work?

Was GMing for a party going up against a half-troll/half dwarf fighter (don't ask) with crazy high AC for their level. How did they win? The party wizard keptnspamming acid splash...

Honestly, have the NPCs do it. I have found that showing it is possible broadens the horizons.

If it works like alter self:

Is there a time limit?

What is the +10 to disguise for?

Alter self doesn't appear to give a saving throw so I don't understand why a disguise check is necessary.

Thank you!


Because they are considered conditions and not diseases/afflictions?

Not that it really matters. The dice would have to hate the player for her to fail the save.

Thank you!

Would you care to elaborate, please?

I am about to pit my 4th level party against four rat swarms. One of the PCs is a paladin. I know she shouldn't be concerned about the filth fever contraction, but what about distraction/nauseated? Could a paladin with divine health be sicked out by rats crawling all over her and biting her?

Erlkings would be the best bruisers. But they probably wouldn't be grunts.

I considered the Test of the Smoking Eyenas a beginning place as well. What are some of the negative reviews? Can you share them here or give me a link?

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