It's a trap? (But is it XP?)


Rules Questions


XP for traps is based on the trap's CR, just like a monster.

It's less clear when the XP should be awarded. I can always just do what feels right, of course, but I'd really like a specific citation of the RAW.

What seems right to me:

Full XP if you detect the trap and disable it.
Full XP if you detect the trap and avoid it without disabling it (even if you intentionally trip it with no harm to anyone present.)

No XP if you detect the trap, try to disable it and fail.
No XP if you fail to detect the trap (whether or not it's sprung.)

Any XP awarded is divided among the party members present, as with mnoster encounters.

Traps seem kind of all-or-nothing to me so I don't see situations where I'd award half XP.

Sczarni

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber

Unless the trap has negitive side effects to the story, if the PCs survive the trap, I give the PCs experience. I think of it similar to if they find a cultist's body on the floor, and when they go to look at it, they wake him up and he fireball's himself, killing himself and damaging the party... they still get experience for killing the cultist (although his CR would be lowered to account for his almost dead-ness), so why wouldn't they get XP for setting off the trap that deos the same thing?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Greetings, fellow traveller.

Not sure if it's RAW, but JJ said in the forums, that XP for a trap should be awarded, if the party somehow encounters it and somehow survives it's effects, e.g.:

  • trap detected and disable --> XP
  • trap detected and disabling it fails, setting it off --> XP
  • trap not detected and is set off --> XP
  • trap detected and avoided --> tricky

    The last point is tricky, e. g.: the party in a dungeon encounters a trap, detects it and circumvents it by choosing to proceed along another tunnel --> I would not award XP.
    If the same party encounters a trap, detects it and circumvents it by jumping over the trigger plate --> I would award XP, because they "survived" the trap by a move which a least threatened to set the trap off.

    Ruyan.


  • RuyanVe wrote:

    Greetings, fellow traveller.

    Not sure if it's RAW, but JJ said in the forums, that XP for a trap should be awarded, if the party somehow encounters it and somehow survives it's effects, e.g.:

  • trap detected and disable --> XP
  • trap detected and disabling it fails, setting it off --> XP
  • trap not detected and is set off --> XP
  • trap detected and avoided --> tricky

    The last point is tricky, e. g.: the party in a dungeon encounters a trap, detects it and circumvents it by choosing to proceed along another tunnel --> I would not award XP.
    If the same party encounters a trap, detects it and circumvents it by jumping over the trigger plate --> I would award XP, because they "survived" the trap by a move which a least threatened to set the trap off.

    Ruyan.

  • I use the encounter trap = XP philosophy also, but I also use more dangerous traps. If the trap itself is not that dangerous then it is setting you up for something else.


    Cpt_kirstov wrote:
    <snip> I give the PCs experience. I think of it <snip>

    Perfectly valid POV but not what I was hoping for: a specific citation of RAW. I'm asking for clarification rather than advice. Thanks, though.

    RuyanVe wrote:
    Not sure if it's RAW, but JJ said in the forums,

    Would still prefer RAW, but I'll try to find that in the forums.

    wraithstrike wrote:
    I use the encounter trap = XP philosophy also,

    More validity, but still not a citation of RAW.


    Damon Griffin wrote:

    XP for traps is based on the trap's CR, just like a monster.

    It's less clear when the XP should be awarded.

    Traps should not be wandering monsters.

    Its a silly statement, yet people think traps exist in and of themselves.

    Someone made this trap and they made it for a purpose.

    Traps don't stand alone, but rather further a purpose.

    Once you buy into this, then awarding xp for traps makes sense. Think of the trap as a sentry and the job is to get past him. You might trigger the alarm but that just makes the next combats harder.

    -James


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Traps seem kind of all-or-nothing to me so I don't see situations where I'd award half XP.

    Look at it this way. Let's say I roll initiative on a BBEG (get a 22 to his 21) with my super lucky raging barbarian, charge him and, despite the fact that he has 1000 AC and 99% miss chance, I get hit/confirm 20s with my vorpal scythe -- along with my 100 on a d100 for miss chance -- and kill him instantly. The challenge level for the fight may have been CR infinity, but because I instantly killed him before he could react, there was effectively no challenge. According to the rules, I should award the barbarian's party CR Infinity XP.

    The CR value isn't just about the actual loss of resources in taking out a monster. . . it's also about the *danger* the CR poses. If a trap poses a threat ("danger") to a party, you should always award full experience. If someone fails to trigger the trap, the question becomes, "is the trap a threat to the party?" If the trap was in a room and the PCs just managed to not trigger it -- maybe by luck -- they should still get full XP because of the threat the trap presented. If the party never encountered a room with a trap in it, the trap was never a threat to the party, thus they should get no experience. If a party avoids the effects of a triggered trap, they should get full experience -- they avoided the effects, but the initial threat was still there. If the DM invents a silly encounter where a sign exists in a room that says, "there's a trap 5 ft behind this sign, watch out!" the party might get a CR reduction in the difficulty of the trap (depending on the trap) -- but it still poses a potential threat to the party.

    Just substitute "monster" for "trap", and typically it's the same thing.


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Perfectly valid POV but not what I was hoping for: a specific citation of RAW. I'm asking for clarification rather than advice. Thanks, though.

    All the rules really say is that you get XP for "overcoming" a trap (or monster or other challenge). What is "overcoming" a trap? I'd say that anything you do to neutralize the trap is "overcoming" it, but there's no game-specific definition of that term that I'm aware of.


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Cpt_kirstov wrote:
    <snip> I give the PCs experience. I think of it <snip>

    Perfectly valid POV but not what I was hoping for: a specific citation of RAW. I'm asking for clarification rather than advice. Thanks, though.

    RuyanVe wrote:
    Not sure if it's RAW, but JJ said in the forums,

    Would still prefer RAW, but I'll try to find that in the forums.

    wraithstrike wrote:
    I use the encounter trap = XP philosophy also,

    More validity, but still not a citation of RAW.

    PRD wrote:

    :Awarding Experience

    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game characters advance in level by defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures.

    The issue is that "overcoming" a trap is not defined anywhere in the book.

    edit:ninja'd by Hogarth


    wraithstrike wrote:


    The issue is that "overcoming" a trap is not defined anywhere in the book.

    edit:ninja'd by Hogarth

    Again that's because traps are not wandering monsters.

    They exist for a purpose, defeat the purpose then you overcome the trap-- the obstacle.

    If it's an alarm to warn (as well as soften up the enemy) then bypassing the trap has avoided being detected. If it's essentially a lock to prevent people from passing then bypassing it has defeated it.

    You need to ask yourself 'why is the trap here?'

    If there's no answer then, indeed, you have made a trap a wandering, random monster. Shame on you. Of course you're having problems deciding if the trap's purpose was overcome or not.. because it didn't have one.

    -James


    Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    From the 3.5 DMG, p. 39, under Challenge Ratings for Traps

    Quote:
    Overcoming the challenge of a trap involves encountering the trap, either by disarming it, avoiding it, or simply surviving the damage it deals. A trap never discovered or never bypassed was not encountered (and hence provides no XP award).

    emphasis mine

    Granted, this is from 3.5 and thus is not RAW for PfRPG, but in general things not called out as specifically changed seem to endure.


    Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Like others have said, its a matter of what you take the word 'overcome' to mean. For instance, lets say you have an encounter planned where the party must encounter the guards to a fort and fight their way in. Instead the party A sneaks in the back, or B talks their way in. Do you award full xp for the guards for A or B? I personally give full XP if you get past a challenge regardless of the means. So if there is a trap, if the players end up past it (towards their goal) by whatever means they get xp for 'overcoming' the trap, even if they simply took the damage and survived or went around/avoided it somehow. The same way I would give XP if they talked/sneaked past the guards I had planned on them fighting.


    Kolokotroni wrote:
    Like others have said, its a matter of what you take the word 'overcome' to mean.

    Well, my personal opinion is that overcoming an obstacle means encountering it and then keeping it from its intended purpose or effect. Traps placed around someone's house presumably exist to harm unwanted intruders, pershaps softening them up for easier kills by the house residents.

    The PCs in my game ran across several such traps. Some they found and disarmed (full XP); others they didn't find -- in some cases, didn't look for -- and tripped with the result that the trap did grievous bodily harm and softened them up for the next encounter. In the latter case, it seems like "PC's 0, Trap 1" and giving the PCs XP for "overcoming" those traps is tantamount to awarding XP on the basis of the characters current hp total rather than his actions.

    I started this thread seeking clarification on the offical position, and for that purpose my opinion doesn't matter, only coming into play when I can weigh the RAW and decide if it bugs me enough to houserule it. But I don't want to houserule something I'm merely ignorant about.

    @joana - This may be as close as I can get to PFRPG RAW, and I agree it may be taken as such in the absence of any stated rule to the contrary.


    Joana wrote:
    Quote:
    Overcoming the challenge of a trap involves encountering the trap, either by disarming it, avoiding it, or simply surviving the damage it deals. A trap never discovered or never bypassed was not encountered (and hence provides no XP award).

    Good catch! I forget that a trap could exist in a room -- but if the party just happens to be lucky and not trigger it, they get no experience.

    I guess it is difficult to experience something you never actually experience. . .


    Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Kolokotroni wrote:
    Like others have said, its a matter of what you take the word 'overcome' to mean.

    Well, my personal opinion is that overcoming an obstacle means encountering it and then keeping it from its intended purpose or effect. Traps placed around someone's house presumably exist to harm unwanted intruders, pershaps softening them up for easier kills by the house residents.

    The PCs in my game ran across several such traps. Some they found and disarmed (full XP); others they didn't find -- in some cases, didn't look for -- and tripped with the result that the trap did grievous bodily harm and softened them up for the next encounter. In the latter case, it seems like "PC's 0, Trap 1" and giving the PCs XP for "overcoming" those traps is tantamount to awarding XP on the basis of the characters current hp total rather than his actions.

    So if players take a beating from a monster they dont get xp? If the big bad evil guy puts a bunch of mooks in the next room to soften up the party before he gets to them, and the mooks succeed in damaging the party then they achieved that purpose and thus the party gets no xp?

    For me at least tripping and surviving the trap is more worthy of reward then just succeeding on disabling it. If you trip the trap you give up resources (HP). Disabling the trap is just a couple skill roles.

    Quote:

    I started this thread seeking clarification on the offical position, and for that purpose my opinion doesn't matter, only coming into play when I can weigh the RAW and decide if it bugs me enough to houserule it. But I don't want to houserule something I'm merely ignorant about.

    The Raw is quite vague on the subject, so unless Jason gives us a ruling on the subject, our interpretations of the vague wording is all we have. There is no 'official position' to look out. As a DM we have to make a choice.

    Additional argument that includes a minor spoiler for council of theieves:

    Edit: To go along with my argument against the whole 'intended effect of the trap' argument, in Council of Thieves AP #3 what lies in the dust, in the old pathfinder lodge delvehaven there are 1 traps that are basically not meant to be disabled. The party is meant to go through them in a specific way and sort out how to get past them. Despite the fact that my party set them off and pretty much had to, there was still a CR and XP total for both of them. So I do believe at least there is evidence within the Adventure Paths that traps that are set off still award xp regardless of their 'intended purpose'.


    the best advice i can give by raw is XP awards in general per raw. and that is thats it's completely up to the GM when and how much XP to award. monsters have a rated XP amount but according to raw the GM does not even HAVE to give out the listed XP. That's one thing the GM has total control over like it or not, there awards not givens.

    with that said it's generally advised to award XP based on danger, perceived danger, and avoiding detected danger. Even if the encounter has no real danger to the party if they perceives it a danger to them then XP can be rewarded.

    ex-

    xp for killing monsters, negotiating them to leave something alone or leaving, routing around a dragon and avoiding him successfully are some examples. though XP can and should be adjusted for the real danger, you shouldnt get full XP for circumventing a dragon, but you should get something.

    traps are no different.

    # trap detected and disable --> XP
    # trap detected and disabling it fails, setting it off --> XP
    # trap not detected and is set off --> XP
    # trap detected and avoided --> XP

    the only case where traps shouldn't award XP if there not detected and not set off.

    on a side note i would also like to point out if a rogue moves ahead detects a trap and disarms it while the party remains out of range of the trap then ONLY the rogue should get the XP-per the lone encounter rules.

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 5 people marked this as a favorite.
    Damon Griffin wrote:

    XP for traps is based on the trap's CR, just like a monster.

    It's less clear when the XP should be awarded. I can always just do what feels right, of course, but I'd really like a specific citation of the RAW.

    I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

    ALL XP awards in the game are handed out when the thing they're attached to is defeated. Be that a monster or a trap or a haunt or a tense political standoff. Be "defeated" akin to "killed" or "driven away" or "disabled" or "endured.

    AKA: You get full XP for a trap if you detect it/disable it, if you trigger it and survive its effects, or if you detect it and avoid it. You don't get the XP more than once (so if you detect and avoid it then come back later and disable it or endure its effects, you don't get to double dip).


    James Jacobs wrote:


    I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

    It wasn't obvious enough (to me) because my question wasn't "how many XP is a trap worth?"

    But now that I have an authoritative answer on the designers' intent, I can move on to considering whether to houserule something different for situations where you merely survive. I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Thanks, everyone.


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    James Jacobs wrote:


    I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

    It wasn't obvious enough (to me) because my question wasn't "how many XP is a trap worth?"

    But now that I have an authoritative answer on the designers' intent, I can move on to considering whether to houserule something different for situations where you merely survive. I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Thanks, everyone.

    I only put traps on places the PC's have to go through so they either disable it, endure it, or creatively bypass it. That takes care of a lot of issues. Now once they get to higher levels they be able to circumvent things, but they just won't get XP for those. I give enough XP that it won't matter though.

    Liberty's Edge

    Damon Griffin wrote:
    James Jacobs wrote:


    I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

    It wasn't obvious enough (to me) because my question wasn't "how many XP is a trap worth?"

    But now that I have an authoritative answer on the designers' intent, I can move on to considering whether to houserule something different for situations where you merely survive. I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Thanks, everyone.

    If you ever have PC's setting of traps for free XP then just make traps that aren't "free". Once you've killed a few of them off with deadly traps you'll see them take traps seriously.


    Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    James Fenix wrote:
    Damon Griffin wrote:
    James Jacobs wrote:


    I'm really not sure how listing a trap's XP in its stat block (which is what we do for EVERY trap in EVERY adventure we publish) isn't obvious enough, to be honest.

    It wasn't obvious enough (to me) because my question wasn't "how many XP is a trap worth?"

    But now that I have an authoritative answer on the designers' intent, I can move on to considering whether to houserule something different for situations where you merely survive. I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Thanks, everyone.

    If you ever have PC's setting of traps for free XP then just make traps that aren't "free". Once you've killed a few of them off with deadly traps you'll see them take traps seriously.

    Plus, they're not really "free" XP since they get the same reward for tripping the trap and taking the consequences as for saying, "Hey, there's a pressure plate under this stone; don't step there." The only way they don't get trap XP is through dumb luck (i.e., tramping obliviously through a room and just serendipitously managing to avoid the trigger).


    Damon Griffin wrote:

    I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Thanks, everyone.

    How is intentionally setting off traps just for the extra XP different then intentionally fighting monsters just to get the XP? You seem to imply this is a bad thing, why?


    cibet44 wrote:
    How is intentionally setting off traps just for the extra XP different then intentionally fighting monsters just to get the XP?

    In that it's not roleplaying, it's gaming the system. A ranger might be eager to fight a favored enemy; a paladin will certainly want to smite evil at every opportunity; a fighter may live for battle and so on. Yeah, the players may just want the extra XP but they'll at least have a plausible in-character excuse for pursuing them.

    Someone who intentionally walks into a wall scythe trap and says "Score! 1200 XP! Heal me up, cleric-dude" probably needs to be playing some sort of video game instead.


    Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Someone who intentionally walks into a wall scythe trap and says "Score! 1200 XP! Heal me up, cleric-dude" probably needs to be playing some sort of video game instead.

    I think the 3.5 DMG rule nicely avoids this, as the PC will get the same 1200 XP for noticing the wall scythe trap and then not setting it off, without wasting healing.


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    cibet44 wrote:
    How is intentionally setting off traps just for the extra XP different then intentionally fighting monsters just to get the XP?

    In that it's not roleplaying, it's gaming the system. A ranger might be eager to fight a favored enemy; a paladin will certainly want to smite evil at every opportunity; a fighter may live for battle and so on. Yeah, the players may just want the extra XP but they'll at least have a plausible in-character excuse for pursuing them.

    Someone who intentionally walks into a wall scythe trap and says "Score! 1200 XP! Heal me up, cleric-dude" probably needs to be playing some sort of video game instead.

    Why walk into a trap if you can avoid it?


    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Someone who intentionally walks into a wall scythe trap and says "Score! 1200 XP! Heal me up, cleric-dude" probably needs to be playing some sort of video game instead.

    Not sure why this is an issue, since once they detected the trap they can just as easily say "Oh look, a scythe trap. Let's not walk into it. Score! 1200 XP!"

    The issue is awarded for dealing with the trap. Tripping it, or deciding not to trip it, are the same xp-wise.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    I don't buy your reasoning, Mr. Griffin.

    I still adhere to what I wrote earlier in this thread concerning how I award XP for traps in my games I want to add, that the game lives by what you make out of it and what you add to it(s rules).

    And if they have to get past a trap due to advancing to the final chamber with the final encounter, a trap is the same as a monster - an obstacle placed there to be overcome.
    The same way an encounter with a monster can be handled in different ways (kill it, sap it, use diplomacy/bluff) and be awared XP, the same goes for traps.

    The rules as written will never give you answers to all the questions which might arise from the way you and your players, well, play the game.
    I don't think it's game breaking to give the players a couple extra XP from a trap or for a clever move to avoid a tight situation (be it a trap, a monster, or any other situation). *shrug*

    Whatever works and is fun for your group - go for it.

    Ruyan.

    Liberty's Edge

    Damon Griffin wrote:
    I expect I will, just because I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Who in their right mind would spring a trap when it can be disabled for 'free'?

    Scarab Sages

    Damon Griffin wrote:
    …I don't want to encourage PCs to intentionally set off traps just for the extra XP.

    Umm…what?? /boggle

    Either someone didn’t read the whole thing, or somebody’s party isn’t interested in detecting traps at all. Are you saying they’d rather just run into a room hoping for traps to trip for the exp? In that case I can see your point.

    Otherwise, ANY scenario of “here is a trap, what do we do with it” that ends with “let’s step in it for exp!” is a scenario performed by those who almost certainly don’t understand the rules (specifically: detect and avoid = same exp as detect and spring). :)


    Its the same as any other monster. You don't need to kill it to get XP from it.

    Grand Lodge

    first, i think too much thought, and overthought have gone into this. i agree w RunebladeX, in that any of the 4 scenarios = xp. well done and well said

    second, my first point being said, my question is more from a repetitive trap series (snare type traps meant to catch and disable anything that enters them) set up in a road intersection or along a trail, that has a perception DC of 20, and then your party has a ranger or druid with a passive perception of 20+, and thereby is able to detect them and either avoid or circumvent or even then to set the rogue to disarm them. if you have 5-6 of these, do you get full xp for each one? serpent skull adventure path first module.

    Thoughts?


    meabolex wrote:
    Damon Griffin wrote:
    Traps seem kind of all-or-nothing to me so I don't see situations where I'd award half XP.

    Look at it this way. Let's say I roll initiative on a BBEG (get a 22 to his 21) with my super lucky raging barbarian, charge him and, despite the fact that he has 1000 AC and 99% miss chance, I get hit/confirm 20s with my vorpal scythe -- along with my 100 on a d100 for miss chance -- and kill him instantly. The challenge level for the fight may have been CR infinity, but because I instantly killed him before he could react, there was effectively no challenge. According to the rules, I should award the barbarian's party CR Infinity XP.

    The CR value isn't just about the actual loss of resources in taking out a monster. . . it's also about the *danger* the CR poses. If a trap poses a threat ("danger") to a party, you should always award full experience. If someone fails to trigger the trap, the question becomes, "is the trap a threat to the party?" If the trap was in a room and the PCs just managed to not trigger it -- maybe by luck -- they should still get full XP because of the threat the trap presented. If the party never encountered a room with a trap in it, the trap was never a threat to the party, thus they should get no experience. If a party avoids the effects of a triggered trap, they should get full experience -- they avoided the effects, but the initial threat was still there. If the DM invents a silly encounter where a sign exists in a room that says, "there's a trap 5 ft behind this sign, watch out!" the party might get a CR reduction in the difficulty of the trap (depending on the trap) -- but it still poses a potential threat to the party.

    Just substitute "monster" for "trap", and typically it's the same thing.

    That gives me a fun idea for a goblin dungeon full of traps with scribbling on the wall that says "ouchy trap here" with an arrow pointing at the floor. The players get used to having every trap marked for them, then they run into something really nasty.


    Spoiler:

    Awarding Experience
    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game characters advance in level by defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures—in so doing, they earn experience points (XP for short). Although you can award experience points as soon as a challenge is overcome, this can quickly disrupt the flow of game play. It's easier to simply award experience points at the end of a game session—that way, if a character earns enough XP to gain a level, he won't disrupt the game while he levels up his character. He can instead take the time between game sessions to do that.

    Spoiler:

    Designing Encounters
    The heart of any adventure is its encounters. An encounter is any event that puts a specific problem efore the PCs that they must solve. Most encounters present combat with monsters or hostile NPCs, but there are many other types—a trapped corridor, a political interaction with a suspicious king, a dangerous passage over a rickety rope bridge, an awkward argument with a friendly NPC who suspects a PC has betrayed him, or anything that adds drama to the game. Brain-teasing puzzles, roleplaying challenges, and skill checks are all classic methods for resolving encounters, but the most complex encounters to build are the most common ones—combat encounters.

    When designing a combat encounter, you first decide what level of challenge you want your PCs to face, then follow the steps outlined below.

    Those two bolded passages taken together are the closest you will get to a RAW quote.

    A. You get experience for overcoming an encounter.
    B. The trap is not the encounter. The hallway the trap is in is the encounter.
    C. If the players make it down the hallway, they have overcome the encounter.


    James quite clearly said you get exp for a trap if you detect it, and subsequently either 1 survive 2 disable 3 avoid it.

    So just about the only time you do not get exp for a trap is when you never even knew it was there because you didnt step on the square that triggered it or never tried to open the chest.


    wraithstrike wrote:


    PRD wrote:

    :Awarding Experience

    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game characters advance in level by defeating monsters, overcoming challenges, and completing adventures.
    The issue is that "overcoming" a trap is not defined anywhere in the book.

    Seems pretty straightforward to me. A trap is designed to protect something. If you get past it (as opposed to just avoiding it), it failed to serve its purpose, meaning you have overcome it.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

    That gives me a fun idea for a goblin dungeon full of traps with scribbling on the wall that says "ouchy trap here" with an arrow pointing at the floor. The players get used to having every trap marked for them, then they...

    But goblins are illiterate?


    As you are now looking at homebrew options, may I make a suggestion?

    Experience should be looked at in the traditional sense of the word rather than a simple reward such as gold pieces. Every time your characters encounter a trap, they should be better able to deal with them in the future whether that reflects the rogue's ability to detect and disable the device or the fighter's ability to reflexively avoid a sprung pit trap at the last minute.

    If your players are intentionally acting contrarily to their character's experience/interest by, as you say, intentionally setting off traps you are fully justified in not awarding xp, but perhaps at that point it is time to sit down with that player and have a chat. It seems to me that a player who acts this way may be degrading the enjoyment of the other players in the group. As GM, your first duty is to ensure all the players at the table are having fun. If these actions are taking away from the experience, you should treat them as any other grief player and try to resolve the actions without loosing a player if possible.


    I might think of it in practical terms:

    "Hey, you want to join us in an adventure?"

    (PC 1 & 2) "Sure!"

    "We need someone who has experienced traps, so they are more familiar with when to look for them, how to identify them, and how to either get through them or avoid them so we can accomplish our goals."

    (PC 1) "Great! I've experienced traps, and have thereby learned some of those skills you're looking for."

    (PC 2) "Sorry, I'm not familiar with traps."

    "Player two, you would be a burden to the party. Gain experience with traps so that you can use that experience to develop talents related to traps, and we'll be back to pick you up on the next adventure."

    ...cheezy explanation, and not what the original post was looking for, but I felt it was worth contributing :)

    Sczarni

    Damon Griffin wrote:
    cibet44 wrote:
    How is intentionally setting off traps just for the extra XP different then intentionally fighting monsters just to get the XP?

    In that it's not roleplaying, it's gaming the system. A ranger might be eager to fight a favored enemy; a paladin will certainly want to smite evil at every opportunity; a fighter may live for battle and so on. Yeah, the players may just want the extra XP but they'll at least have a plausible in-character excuse for pursuing them.

    Someone who intentionally walks into a wall scythe trap and says "Score! 1200 XP! Heal me up, cleric-dude" probably needs to be playing some sort of video game instead.

    That's the problem with trap's design. In AP's, traps are usually mediocre and 1 shot hit for some damage. This is honestly terrible design. Traps can be major hindrance if you know how to design them. Ability damage and Reset factor can add a whole new area of un-healable challenges.


    Malag, are you aware that you are responding to a post from 2010? This thread was long dead and buried until theman... used mythic necromancy to bring it back.

    Sczarni

    @Gisher

    Them necromancers. No, I didn't notice it's from 2010...

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