Isonaroc's page

Isonaroc wrote:

Uh, no, you really couldn't get 7 billion simulacra in three days. Granted, there's no GM to consult, but I highly doubt that creating billions of simulacra is covered by the powerful request clause. And your simulacra would be highly unlikely to be able to use miracle themselves to self replicate (it's hard to say, because this gets into that whole abstraction thing again).

Uh, yeah, you really could get the simulacra, no special requests necessary. Each simulacrum has half of your class levels in commoner or expert, but all of its abilities not based on class level remain exactly the same. Your simulacra can absolutely use miracle themselves. So you can cast miracle to duplicate simulacrum in less than six seconds, then your simulacrum can make another simulacrum, and that simulacrum can make another. So at the end of day one you'll have 14,400 simulacra. The next day, each of you get your miracles back, so you can each create a new chain of 14,400 simulacra, leaving you with around 207,360,000. On day three you can just repeat the process to get seven billion or far more.

Even if they could still use miracle, which, sure, let's just say they can, you would still have to order each one to cast miracle, and then you would have to order your simulacra to order their simulacra (because their simulacra would not be under your direct control), and then you'd have to order your simulacra to order their simulacra to order their simulacra. And that's assuming simulcra are capable of actually creating simulacra and commanding said simulacra as they aren't actually capable of thought. Has there ever been any rules hammered out regarding simulacra creating simulacra? It's possible that would run afoul of the "cannot become stronger" clause, hard to say because simulacrum is really poorly designed. Regardless, for every level you go down you add in another level of communication that is necessary. That makes things way more complicated

Isonaroc wrote:

Someone will inevitably disagree. Strenuously.

Sure, just like plenty of people strenuously disagree with the mosquitoes. The difference being that those people get mercilessly slaughtered.

Yeah, it's not like a war would throw a wrench into the whole "saving lives" thing.

Stuff about simulacrum

Uh, no, you really couldn't get 7 billion simulacra in three days. Granted, there's no GM to consult, but I highly doubt that creating billions of simulacra is covered by the powerful request clause. And your simulacra would be highly unlikely to be able to use miracle themselves to self replicate (it's hard to say, because this gets into that whole abstraction thing again).

Stuff about playing god

What's wrong with that is you will be unable to respond to everyone equally. You are limited by your number of castings and by your location. Even if you attempt to be purely egalitarian, you are still by the very nature of existence, going to be choosing to save one person at the expense of another. I mean, you can spam simulacra I guess, and they can probably take care of the minor stuff (again, how powerful a simulacrum would be in this scenario is incredibly undefined). Inevitably people will get angry, and things will get really ugly. And that's what I don't like: the idea that I am valuing one person's life over another.

Coidzor wrote:

The question boils down to what kind of god you would choose to be and how you would go about it, after all.

Yeah, call it hubris, but I'm fairly confident that I'd be better at wielding ultimate power over life and death than a mosquito.

Someone will inevitably disagree. Strenuously.

Stuff about stabilize

Here's a list of cleric and wizard cantrips that almost certainly would save more lives than stabilize: create water, detect poison, purify food & drink, drench, resistance, daze, mage hand, prestidigitation. Granted, some of those are pretty situational, but they're still less situational than stabilize, which may not have a situation outside of Pathfinder.

Stuff about pain

As someone with a chronic pain condition, I'm well aware. It's still a less useful spell than the others I mentioned.

Stuff about accept affliction

A fair point, but there's probably a more efficient way of doing it that doesn't risk the golden goose (e.g. You)

Stuff about reincarnation

Yeah, but the fact is that, regardless of how egalitarian you try to be, you're going to be leaving some people, huge numbers of people, out. Regardless of your intentions, this will cause pandemonium on a planetary scale. Once people become aware that there is someone literally walking around with the key to eternal life in their pocket, there will be riots in the streets trying to get to you. Without any hyperbole, this is something that would start wars. The irony is that eternal life would result in the death of millions or billions. Unless they just kill you. Either way, it's a pretty rough sell in my opinion.

0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

No, it doesn't stop death. It stops a very ill defined specific form of death that doesn't translate well to the real world. It wouldn't do a thing to stop someone from bleeding to death, because stabilize doesn't stop bleeding. This is why I stayed away from spells that deal with abstractions like DR and HP, because the things the game is simulating don't correlate to the simulations.

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

Are you a doctor? Because you're probably not going to have a whole lot of use for this if you aren't. Additionally, the way the spell is worded I don't know if it would work on things like autoimmune diseases or cancer, which are the two conditions that generally prove the hardest to nail down a diagnosis, nor would it work on genetic diseases or the like. As far as I'm aware, all Pathfinder diseases are infections or parasites. Again, it's getting into abstractions. Assuming it does work, you can diagnose a few people each day, I guess that's something.

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

We have stuff to deal with pain. You'd probably be better off with lesser restoration, soothing word, or even CMW.

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

So, instead you'll condemn yourself to death? Because that's what accept affliction would do in that case. If you could cure the condition, just do that instead. And how would you choose between two mothers who have dying children? In any case, remove disease and remove blindness/deafness are the same level, you'd be better off with one of those. You could also pick up symbol of healing, make it permanent, then anyone who gets near it gets some love.

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

Yeah, but who do you give it to? You're not going to cast the spell 7 billion times, in the end you're going to be playing god. I don't like that very much.

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Except raise Dead doesn't destroy death, it delays it (and significantly weakens those you use it one). Eventually they'll still die of old age (unless you deign to use your limited reincarnate resources on them), and each time they come back it saps them of their vitality.

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

Solid choices all.

8th - Greater Planar Ally

Because the world needs more angels.

The only wrinkle in this is whether or not you're able to pay the price.

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.

Yep

Can I just mention how I feel the name "Drogon" is a stupid name for a dragon.

In fairness, it was named after a dude named Drogo.

Matthew Downie wrote:

In a world where everyone has access to a dozen magic items, and you can fall two hundred feet onto pointy rocks and still punch out an elephant, it's basically anime.

(Whether the anime martial who can cut through walls and defeat dozens of foes in a few seconds can keep up with a flying teleporting mind-controlling angel-summoning wizard is another question...)

Western fantasy is deeply rooted in mythology.

Like, say, The Tain. Where Cuchulain goes friggin' super Saiyan and does all manner of ridiculous over-the-top nonsense.

Oh, but they'll say that Cú Chulainn (or Heracles or Gilgamesh or whoever) was a demigod and isn't comparable to "mundane martials." No nevermind to the fact that a 17th level martial should be anything but mundane.

EDUT:

The King In Yellow wrote:

Sixth, this isn't an anime. Martials shouldn't be doing anime stuff, unless they have access to magic. The game world should be (mostly) internally consistent. Guy with sword may know all kinds of tricks with that sword, but in the end, he's STILL just a guy with a sword. Not an anime character. (Note, I watch a lot of anime, but if I want to play with anime characters, I'll play in an anime-themed RPG. - That's what BESM and TFOS are for.)

My problem with this is that there's no point to a level system if that's the case.

A level 20 fighter is hundreds of thousands of EXP higher than a level 17 wizard. If the level 20 PC wealth fighter is a CR 20 encounter, he is worth more EXP than TWO fully equipped level 17 wizards.

Nobody in their right mind would ever choose to fight 2 level 17 wizards instead of the level 20 fighter unless the fight takes place in a dead magic zone because fighting something with a really dangerous full attack is not particularly hard for competent adventurers but fighting two enemies with 9th-level spells is a nightmare even if you know what you're doing. Most people wouldn't prefer to fight ONE level 17 wizard boss as opposed to a level 20 fighter, because the former has the power to stop time, summon tyrannosauruses, and then teleport away to fight you later while the other has a good critical hit and a small amount of damage reduction.

Why are these both being presented as equally viable classes if it goes without saying that getting all the way to the peak with the one is still much less powerful than getting most of the way there with the other?

If a level 20 fighter is a regular guy with a sword, a level 20 wizard should be a slightly better Houdini, not Doctor Strange. Similarly, if a level 20 caster is functionally a demigod from the PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER of their magics, a level 20 martial should similarly be capable of godly feats of prowess.

It feels extremely inconsistent to me that an orc fist-fighter can kill a...

This. Basically all of this.

It’s pronounced like the g in gif, of course.

Yeah, like I said, hard G.

I wonder though... how would you word a wish for a feat...

Same way you'd wish for anything that's an abstract concept representing something in game. You'd tell the DM what feat you wanted and your character would wish to be able to do what the feat does. If you wanted exotic weapon proficiency in the whip, you'd wish to be able to use a whip. If you wanted combat reflexes you'd wish to be able to react quickly in battle, etc.

I generally tend to err on the side of hard syllables rather than soft, so I always used the hard G.

Cavall wrote:

Look around your house.

Look at your shower.

Look at your sink.

Look at your clothes hamper.

If you're not saying unseen servant you picked the wrong spell and are lying to yourself.

Absolutely agree. If I got one spell, and one spell only to use, it would b e Unseen Servant.

Shadow conjuration gets you that, plus just about every other conjuration spell.

I am a little surprised how few look at the Mental/Physical stat improving spells for second level. Fox's Cunning providing a +4 to INT, means you go from a likely 10 INT commoner to a 14 INT Math expert for 9 minutes per day 8 times a day.

Any of the Physical or mental stat boosters have short durations, but can make you an expert or master level Human in a task. Not sure if giving up Tongues, or major image for meta magic extended spell for 18+ mins per day is worth it though.

EDIT: +4 to CHA would be sweet for dating, and I would have the CHA to excuse myself every 8 minutes to reapply without it being weird =D

I mostly didn't go for those because they're a little more abstract and have a lot of questions when you start looking at real world use (if you increase your intelligence, can you still comprehend thing you figure out after the spell ends? Stuff like that). Plus, honestly, charm spells make a lot of that stuff superfluous. You can get your friends to do your math for you.

I'm also surprised not to see a lot of interest in spells like Seek Thoughts and Discern Lies, which could transform human relationships.

That's why I went with detect thoughts. Also, with shadow enchantment, you can just drop a zone of truth. Or, hell, pop dominate person and order them to speak the truth. Though I am reticent to mess with dominate spells unless in dire straits.

Protection from Arrows would work against bullets, right? Probably worth the slot.

I stayed away from stuff like that partly because I don't plan on getting shot at, but mostly because HP are an abstraction, so having DR 10 is a nebulous concept at best.

Well, technically nothing is beyond the purview of wish, however it's at the GM's discretion. For practical purposes though, like the others said, no.

I just kinda skimmed, but I'm surprised no one has taken any of the shadow school spells. They really cover a lot of ground. Here's mine:

0 - Prestidigitation
1 - Comprehend Languages
2 - Detect Thoughts
3 - Major Image
4 - Dimension Door
5 - Shadow Evocation
6 - Greater Shadow Enchantment
7 - Greater Shadow Conjuration
8 - Polymorph Any Object
9 - Wish (more for duplicating other spells than for the more dangerous stuff)

You shouldn't need the exotic weapon proficiency as a bard, at least going by the AA entry which I guess the devs intend to be the default, has whip proficiency already, thus allowing scorpion whip proficiency.

I really hate multiple entries in different sourcebooks that differ from each other.

Also ultimately the meta reason is the only reason that makes sense short of all the high tier NPCs being aggressively apathetic about low CR issues. I mean in roughly any given metropolis you can find scrolls of wish for sale. Ergo there is some wizard with 9th level casting lurking around. Now you might say "Surely Merlin is too busy spending his days writing scrolls to bother helping the low level scrubs with the Kobold Warren in ye olde Hamlet McNowhere" but on the other hand Merlin's got 9th level spells. He can spend about 10 minutes summoning some outsider to G Teleport and massacre the kobolds at likely no cost to himself because he can wreck the planar binding charisma check with enough mods. Now you can say he's too aggressively apathetic for even that too, but it gets weird when even the _G clerics spending their time writing miracle scrolls can't put the time of day to be good people and crush some evil.

One of those things you're not meant to look too closely at in Pathfinder lest you fall down the rabbit hole entirely and get lost in how utterly nonsensical the bones of the setting are.

Technically I think metropolises cut off at 8th level spells, but that's still a 15th level wizard.

Scrolls could be explained away via traders, so you can still get the scrolls even if there are no casters with high level spells in the city, but purchasing 8th level spell casting services is pretty hard to work around having actual casters.

Isonaroc wrote:

Does the scorpion whip give you 15' reach? I'm pretty sure it just has the reach quality and lacks the whip's specific 15' description. And does the scorpion whip threaten, or is it like the whip in that regard? It doesn't spell it out in the description either, so I'd say it does. Really, even with this change, it's still pretty poorly written.

Honestly, they should really just scrap the scorpion whip entirely and remove the non-leathal and armor problems with the standard whip. Would really keep the waters from getting so muddy. I never got why the whip was a non-lethal weapon in the first place. A good whip can shear sheet metal and cut flesh. Hell, there are accounts of Inuit who are able to hunt caribou with a whip.

You can use it as a whip except it does lethal damage, so yes.

Scorpion Whip wrote:

If you are proficient with both the scorpion whip and whip, you can use a scorpion whip in either the normal way (as a light performance weapon) or as a whip. When you use a scorpion whip as a whip, it is equivalent to a whip, but deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus.

According to the linked Reddit post, the AA version, which is now the PFS version is different, and doesn't include the text you wrote, instead having "This whip has a series of razorsharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. It deals lethal damage, even to creatures with armor bonuses. If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip." The only reason I am unsure is I do not have access to the actual source right now to confirm whether or not it is true.

Does the scorpion whip give you 15' reach? I'm pretty sure it just has the reach quality and lacks the whip's specific 15' description. And does the scorpion whip threaten, or is it like the whip in that regard? It doesn't spell it out in the description either, so I'd say it does. Really, even with this change, it's still pretty poorly written.

Honestly, they should really just scrap the scorpion whip entirely and remove the non-leathal and armor problems with the standard whip. Would really keep the waters from getting so muddy. I never got why the whip was a non-lethal weapon in the first place. A good whip can shear sheet metal and cut flesh. Hell, there are accounts of Inuit who are able to hunt caribou with a whip.

Why not just slap the Throwing and Returning enhancements?

Because that allows you a single attack because a returning weapon doesn't come back to you until just before your next turn. This allows you to ricochet your rocket fist and hit as many opponents as you have attacks.

EDUT: I'm so doing this build, by the by.

If I understand your goal, you might find it simpler to buy a Sharding gauntlet.

Yeah, but that's not as cool as your gauntlet literally flying off, striking, and returning back to your fist.

I still want a class that revolves around something like a caster gun from Outlaw Star. (And, no, that's not the spellinger. The class I'm envisioning is NOT a casting class), or a class that uses magic armor to enhance their abilities (something like the Guyver, or Iron Man, though not necessarily with the same abilities). I'd still also like a hybrid class that incorporates Paladin and barbarian, synthesizing their flavors into something new.

Thing is, most people weren't looking for an MMO combat simulator when they bought a product labelled "Dungeons & Dragons" - they were looking for a roleplaying game...

I don't know about you, but when I played 4e I did just as much roleplay as when I played 3.5/PF. Then again, back when I regularly played MMOs I did roleplay with those too.

Pfft...forget fighter, wizard, and rogue; throw that mess on a Paladin. Take quicken SLA and focus on bow fighting. Then smite and start dropping quickened magic missiles while full attacking with the bow. I don't know if they ever FAQed whether or not smite damage applies to each missile or just the spell as a whole. If it is each, you're basically a machine gun. If just the spell, well, at 10th level it's an extra couple rounds of 5d4+15 force damage that bypasses DR and automatically hits.

Is there a dazing SLA feat? If so this suddenly gets a whole lot nastier.

Vermithrax Pejorative has always been my favorite dragon name.

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

3. No, there won't be any aura for this theoretical magical law enforcement to detect, because faint auras dissipate in a matter of seconds. Leaving behind a faint aura of conjuration gives the detect magic cops at most one minute after the criminal's exit before the crime scene is magically sterile. If they got there in time to detect the aura, they should have caught the thief red-handed

Greater Detect Magic sees residue from every spell cast in the last CL/days, and let’s you identify a magical signature to fingerprint the guilty caster. It’s meant for precisely this sort of problem.

Awesome! Now you just need to examine every magic user you don't personally know in the city while they're casting another spell until you find the guilty party!

"His/her magic looks like this" isn't super-helpful if you don't find the person that signature belongs to and observe them using magic again. You'd be better off just shelling out for the expensive divinations that let you just look back in time or locate a particular piece of the merchandise or crank-call God to give you the details of the robbery.

Which is kind of reinforcing my point that magic is overpowered, not countering it.

Yes, fingerprinting has never worked for solving crimes for very similar reasons.

It works if you have a small pool of people to check them against or a database of such fingerprints to reference. Good luck finding a random person who has no recorded fingerprints in a city of thousands.

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

And the shopowner gets those wonderful locks and finds the following day he's been robbed anyway because a thief with magic simply enchanted them open or teleported inside, took everything that wasn't nailed down and on fire, and teleported back out. The guards noticed nothing because the thief was invisible. Was the shopkeeper a fool because he quite reasonably can't afford to hire wizards to make his store dimensionally locked?

So, the thief spends:

* 2,250 gp for a scroll of teleport. But since he's buying a powerful spell for a theft, he probably doesn't want the transaction registered, so he goes to the Black Market and pays significantly more (3,375 - 5,500). The DC to Use Magic Device on that scroll is 27 (assuming minimum caster level of 7). This is generic NPC thief, so he probably has a 16 DEX. +3 DEX and +3 Trained brings it down to 21. If he's eleventh level, that'll bring the DC down to 10. And he Takes 10 on it, presto, spell is cast. Except, of course, that one can't Take 10 on Use Magic Device. So even an average 11th level npc rogue who's just dropped 2,250 minimum is relying on a 50/50 die roll to not have flushed those jeeps down the chamber pot.

* Let's assume skill focus (Use Magic Device) and a whole slew of other specializations that make it reasonable to assume that the 11th level thief will be able to cast the spell. There'll be no signs of forced entry and the faint aura of Conjuration (teleportation) for the Magical Threats Agency to detect. Thief knows that there aren't that many casters in town that can cast teleport and they'll have alibis (since they didn't do it). So the thief knows he'll need non-detection to cover his tracks. 750 gp a piece for 5 hours of non-detection. Figures he'll need 48 hours of obfuscation to make his getaway, so that's ten scrolls, or another 7,500 gp to cover his escape.

* So, the thief is looking at an outlay of 10,000 gp minimum to rob the place. Is this...

Or the 1st level dimensional jaunter rogue used his jaunter's hop ability and spends exactly nothing. And why, in this scenario, would the thief need non-detection? If the CL of the scroll is 7 (as you indicated), the lingering aura would last 60 minutes at most, so the crime would have to be discovered, the authorities summoned, and the spell detected all within an hour (or less, given the aura could disappear after 10 minutes). So there will be no indication at all what happened.

Also, you're assuming the thief isn't a caster (thief =/= rogue) who doesn't have to spend anything but spell slots. And, really, knock still gets you past anything but an amazing lock without much hassle, no need mucking about with teleportation. Or use blink and just walk through the wall.

Merm7th wrote:

Wizards are okay until they come up against a character with UMD and access to 1,650gp. My brawler spent all his money I scrolls of antimagic field(after buying armor). Loved casting it, giving himself step up, and beating the casters to a pulp.

Enemies with antimagic field come up in just about every non-PFS game I've played.

"The best way to beat casters is by casting at them" isn't exactly encouraging, all the issues with this plan aside. I dunno about you, but when I decide to play a Brawler it isn't so that I can spend all my money faking being a Wizard.

That reminds me of a previous M/C D thread where someone more-or-less argued that the disparity wasn't a think because martials can get wizard cohorts and hire spellcasting services. "Casters aren't overpowered because martials can get their own casters" is an amusing argument.

Yeah, if you run it right the "gargantuan creature with multiple individual parts" thing can work pretty well. I've done that with krakens and the Armageddon Engine before and it was fun. Single monster battles, iconic as they are, are nearly impossible to run effectively otherwise unless there's some sort of puzzle mechanic at work too. The action economy is too one sided, and if you bump up the monster to compensate they get too deadly too fast.

Omnius wrote:

Encounters have goals.

Experience is given for overcoming encounters.

If you are setting forth to kill Steve the Necromancer and you come across a group of enemies between you and Steve the Necromancer, the goal of the encounter is to get past them and get to Steve.

If the party manages to go around them and continue on, then they have overcome the encounter and earned their XP.

What's more, the choice of tactics for dealing with an encounter are up to the party. If they choose more sound tactics than MURDER EVERYONE, turning around and offing an NPC for being, you know, actually intelligent instead of murder hobos? That's just being vindictive and adversarial.

There's more to being the stalwart hero of the land than kill-n-loot. And getting back on topic, mages are WAY BETTER at outside-the-box solutions than muggles, because they're actually given the tools to do so.

Non-lethal damage, grapple to tie up, diplomacy to convince them to abandon their evil ways.

There are plenty of honorable ways to deal with an encounter besides murder-hoboing, skirting the battle is not one of them. If you teleport past enemies you did not deal with the encounter at all. If you teleport to the end of a dungeon do you expect to get the XP from all of the encounters you skipped over?

It's situational, but sometimes, yeah, absolutely. If your party manages to stealth past the guards you should totally get the XP for the encounter. If you just teleport to the bottom of Rappan Athuk, no you shouldn't get all the XP of everything you bypassed. But if your goal is to kill the evil duke in his keep and escape, you absolutely should get the experience for evading fights and traps via judicious magic.

Mykull wrote:

I grant a bonus for good roleplay, but never a penalty for bad. However, I conversely don't like when a DM requires a roll even when the roleplay was so above and beyond it shouldn't be required.

If you never requires rolls when people roleplay well, you can run into the problem where it's not worth putting ranks in social skills. I used to see that in old LARPs where buying social adeptness with XP was considered a waste because the player "will just roleplay that stuff."

I've seen the 5 Cha dwarf with a silver-tongued player. You need to do the rolls to make their self-imposed penalty meaningful.

Yeah, foregoing rolls for social stuff due to roleplay is like foregoing attack rolls because you describe your attack really well.

thenovalord wrote:

I had a 1st ed half orc cleric assassin called Nightshade!

How unoriginal was I?

I played Gambit once in a GURPS supers game, so I've forfeited the right to ever criticize anyone else's originality, in perpetuity. :)

I mean, it wasn't Wolverine or anything (who seems to be the Drizzt of superhero games), but the shame still burns.

Oh, we've all done similar things. Hell, I've played ersatz Sephiroth, River Tam, and Chun Li. Doesn't get much worse than that.

Bloodrealm wrote:

Dalaan wrote:

A wizard played well plays chess when everyone else is playing checkers.

So a well-played Wizard is an idiot who plays the wrong game? Yes, I know what you meant, but I'm not a fan of that analogy.

It's a good analogy. Most classes can't even move onto the red squares, can only move one at a time, and get forced into detrimental situations as a matter of course.

Wizards are given so many more tools at their disposal and can most often pick where they chose to act or strike.

Not everyone would agree that it's a good analogy.

I don't think there are any firm rules, different items would probably react differently. Personally I kind of like the finality of an item serving its purpose and then either being lost, destroyed, or mundane.

Isonaroc wrote:

Not exactly the same, but I had a Paladin make a single use wondrous item that popped greater angelic aspect, banishing blade, fire of vengeance, eaglesoul, sacred nimbus, greater stunning barrier, deadly juggernaut, and a delayed blaze of glory (I think, I don't have the list at hand) after which the user is reduced to dust as per the disintegrate spell. I called it her "last stand in a can." She hasn't had occasion to use it, yet.

I love it! How much did the GM charge you for it?

I honestly can't remember, the game has been on hiatus for a while. I've got the info for it on my computer somewhere, but not readily to hand. I do know it was less expensive than it should be because of the finality of it, as it was clearly intended to be the character's last hurrah should things get really bad

The Ring of Ultimate Survival

Ring of Prot +5 50,000
Greater Ring of Inner Fortitude 66,000
Ring of Regeneration 90,000
Ring of Energy Resistance (fire) 44,000
Ring of Energy Resistance (cold) 44,000
Ring of Blinking 27,000
Decoy Ring 12,000
Mind Shielding 8,000
Force Shield 8,500
Ring of Sustenance 2,500
Ring of Feath Falling 2,200
Ring of Ferocious Action 3,000

Yours now for the low, low price of 490,800 gold. (Tack on an additional 66k per resistance if you feel you REALLY need acid, sonic, or electricity resistance)

Never seen anyone go quite that far, but I've seen close.

Not exactly the same, but I had a Paladin make a single use wondrous item that popped greater angelic aspect, banishing blade, fire of vengeance, eaglesoul, sacred nimbus, greater stunning barrier, deadly juggernaut, and a delayed blaze of glory (I think, I don't have the list at hand) after which the user is reduced to dust as per the disintegrate spell. I called it her "last stand in a can." She hasn't had occasion to use it, yet.

Can y'all just agree to disagree? Because the historical connotations of honor aren't really relevant to PF, which uses honor colloquially to refer to honesty, fairness, or integrity in one's beliefs and actions.

Also, just to touch on "you're giving the wizard too much downtime if they're scribing so many scrolls"

Dwarf wizard alternate favored class bonus.

If you develop a rep as a hard core no downtime gm, expect them.

Oh, my...I basically never play dwarves so I never noticed that before. That's insanely useful for crafty types.

I am guilty of this....but I want to emphasis that despite their pretty decent roll, role play is an important aspect of the game and comes first and foremost. Decent roleplay can even not even necessitate a roll with me.

I'm not going to say I've never rewarded a player for good RP rather than a roll, because I totally have, but it's metagaming. Mechanically, roleplay really shouldn't matter, rewarding a player for RP rather than making them roll a bluff check (or punishing them for bad RP regardless of their bluff skill) is no different than a player knowing where the traps are because they've played the AP before or knowing monster stats when their character would not.

It's tough, because (in my opinion) the game is greatly enhanced by good role play and it should be encouraged, but I also think it's unfair to give a mechanical advantage or disadvantage based on something that isn't mechanical in nature.

The odds of something hostile stumbling across your camp by random is vanishingly small, and if it does the chance that it will be of a CR to actively challenge you is also pretty small.

A level 1 commoner with a scythe and a Str mod of +1 sneaks up on you while you are sleeping and CdG you, assuming middling damage (say, 20, all told), that's a DC 30 fort save to avoid dying outright. That's something that can potentially one-shot a 20th level character. When you are helpless there are very few things that are to low CR to be a threat. Hell, your basic goblin straight from the beastiary using standard kit sneaks up on you and CdG you with its small short sword, rolls middling, deals 4 damage. That's still a DC 14 fort save, which is enough to get about a 50% kill rate on any level 5 party member who isn't fort focused.

I can't remember if this has been mentioned yet, and I'm not going to reread the thread to check: I hate when DMs punish players for being bad at talking. I'm talking DMs that force you to roleplay diplomacy checks and punish you for not being as charismatic as your character that has a +18 to their diplomacy check. I don't see you forcing the Barbarian's player to actually break down a door. Yeah, it's fun to proper roleplay, but not everyone is good at it. In fact, people who aren't good at it might be drawing to charismatic characters for that reason, to pretend to be someone who is witty and socially adroit.

Same goes for DMs that punish their players for not being as intelligent as their characters.

I have no idea where they fall in the hierarchy, but Paladins can be absolute monsters with a bow.

Yeah, absolution looks super situational and largely pointless as far as Paladins falling. Breaking charms and compulsions is nice, making the spell a slightly less useful version of break enchantment, but unless someone is really Johnny on the spot it's not going to help the dominated Paladin from falling. Unless you just ignore the ludicrous rule in the first place.

Same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Deities give these Paladins Divine Grace. With it they are to use it to resist evil. If the Paladin fails a save maybe they don't deserve to have it if failed attempt caused them to brake their code

This is the worst thing to ever come out of a Paladin thread. There is always ALWAYS a chance to fail a save because a nat 1 ALWAYS fails. It doesn't matter if it's a DC 15 Will save and you've got a +27 to Will. If you roll a nat 1, you fail. That isn't the Paladin's will being weak, it's getting a bad die roll.

It's definitely in the bottom five, but I still think "a Paladin falls for killing anyone for any reason" is worse, as is "thinking about something evil makes your alignment briefly shift to evil, thus a Paladin falls if they ever think an evil thought."

I've never understood the whole 'poison = evil' maxim.

I know it's been around since the first days of D&D paladins, but I've never agreed with it.

It's not that poison is evil, it's that it's "dishonorable." But, yeah, I think it's silly too.

It was extra amusing when they introduced ravages in 3.5. "No, see, these poisons are honorable, because we called them something different so you can use them!"

I haven't been able to find any substantiated cases of pardons for failed executions. There have been cases where a mob interferes and as a result prevents a second go at the execution, but it has never been a part of actual law either written or common law. A lot of the pop culture belief in it comes from failing to understand old timey trials by ordeal, where surviving or not surviving was what determined your innocence or guilt.

Margaret Dickson, hanged, survived, granted pardon.

It's pronounced "Throatwarbler Mangrove"

*can't think of anything that would do this, since I don't think dispel could target a spell on a creature that doesn't exist.

Wish or miracle would probably do the trick, outside of that though...is there a psionic equivalent to AMF?

I managed to die twice before the AP even started.

The GM instituted this weird rule where you roll for your age category, then your age. He forgot to factor in the different aging rates of nonhumans. I ended up rolling a goblin who was 80 years old. The GM ruled that my goblin started undead, in order to avoid having me make a new character.

The first thing the paladin does to the zombie goblin? Smite evil. With a greatsword.

Probably should've just had you reroll taking the different aging rate into account. I hope you poured a drink down the back of the Paladin player's shirt.

We didn't invent ether until the mid-19th, early 20th century. That was the earliest form of anesthetic.

Uh, what? We've had primitive forms of general anesthesia for millennia, the Chinese surgeon Hua Tuo used general anesthesia for complex operations about 1800 years ago, and there are records of GA use going back 500 years before that.

Plus there are published things that would work just fine as GA, blue whinnis springs to mind. And sweetdream sounds fairly similar to midazolam (fun fact: when you are having some procedures done, particularly ones where it would be dangerous to actually induce unconsciousness or where they need you to follow commands, you're not actually unconscious, you're just riding the Versed train, which prevents you from making new memories)

I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page.

That's where a laptop, tablet, or phone can come in handy. When I DM I use my laptop, and keep pertinent stuff open or tabbed so I can just click over to it easily. Really helps for encounters too when the monster's stat block isn't on the page you are.

Low level wizards are excellent at a few things, and good within their limitations.

Mid level wizards are extremely powerful, generally have a spell that can handle any given skill check you might need, and can end fights almost as soon as they start.

High level wizards create whole planes of reality, make legions of simulacra, and if they feel like it can go live on the sun.

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Isonaroc wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

djdust wrote:

it does make sense for a deity to step in and take away a paladin's powers should they become compromised via mind control etc. as a means to mitigate the powers of evil. If a paladin becomes an unwitting tool of evil, take away their class abilities, they are now a less powerful unwitting tool. Once their own will is restored, so are their powers.

Deities give these Paladins Divine Grace. With it they are to use it to resist evil. If the Paladin fails a save maybe they don't deserve to have it if failed attempt caused them to brake their code

That's ridiculous. If the gods were so concerned about such things they would grant Paladins immunity to mind affecting effects at 1st level rather than 17th. You might as well argue that a god should strip a Paladin of their powers for missing an attack roll.

With great power comes great responsibility.

BAB does not come from the deity. and BAB is retained when Paladinhood is lost. plus missing an enemy doesn't break the code.

If being mind controlled breaks the code (it doesn't), then you could as easily contrive a missed attack roll breaking the code. You miss an evil doer, they escape and go on to commit more evil. Your actions have caused evil to flourish. "But they didn't actually commit the evil, it wasn't their fault." *points at mind controlled Paladin discussion* Apparently that doesn't matter. A Paladin who is mind controlled, effectively, isn't a Paladin, they are a meat puppet piloted by whatever is controlling them, they cannot willfully do anything, let alone commit evil. Failing a save is not grounds for falling.

With great power comes great responsibility.

*looks pointedly at 9/9 spellcasters* Oh, yes, clearly.