Your Least Favorite Thing?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Bill Dunn wrote:
Chuck Mount wrote:
ryric said wrote:
Also remember that THACO was added in late in the 1e cycle. Originally 1e just had big "to hit" tables where you had to cross-reference attack rolls with AC. THACO was introduced as a simplification.
This confuses me because I started playing with Basic D&D and I used THAC0 for that. When I started playing AD&D, there was still THAC0. Maybe you're thinking of Chainmail? I don't know what system they used for that as that was before my time.
No, it was definitely late to 1e. I don’t believe it appears at all in the first two publications - Monster Manual and Players Handbook. And it’s in an appendix in the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Plus, it isn’t even an exact fit in 1e because of the series of repeated 20s on the combat tables.

My 1e AD&D DMG (1979, original printing May, "revised edition" December) is right in front of me, and it has no mention of THAC0, not even in a appendix that I can find.

But Basic evolved in parallel to AD&D, didn't it? AFAIK it's not zeroth-edition AD&D, it's simplified whatever-edition-is-out AD&D. So finding THAC0 in Basic just means in was in AD&D at that point.


Ugh, I remember ThAC0.....back in the day when I was the champion LG Paladin with castle and followers...oh to be young and have a DM who just wanted to play and was around mainly to throw dice...come to think of it, I think we even had gold dragons as mounts....which is a little OP now that I think of it :D

As to my least favourite thing, I love making backgrounds for my characters and getting right into the setting....some of the people I play with don't.....and it bugs me to no end.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:


My 1e AD&D DMG (1979, original printing May, "revised edition" December) is right in front of me, and it has no mention of THAC0, not even in a appendix that I can find.

But Basic evolved in parallel to AD&D, didn't it? AFAIK it's not zeroth-edition AD&D, it's simplified whatever-edition-is-out AD&D. So finding THAC0 in Basic just means in was in AD&D at that point.

Check Appendix E of the DMG. Third column of the alphabetic monster list is To Hit AC 0. At least it is in my printing...


Bill Dunn wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:


My 1e AD&D DMG (1979, original printing May, "revised edition" December) is right in front of me, and it has no mention of THAC0, not even in a appendix that I can find.

But Basic evolved in parallel to AD&D, didn't it? AFAIK it's not zeroth-edition AD&D, it's simplified whatever-edition-is-out AD&D. So finding THAC0 in Basic just means in was in AD&D at that point.

Check Appendix E of the DMG. Third column of the alphabetic monster list is To Hit AC 0. At least it is in my printing...

Oh, hey, there it is. Still doesn't say "THAC0" though. :-P


SmiloDan wrote:

My least favorite things are random lists and rolling on tables. Rolling on tables is the only reason I would never run a Wild Magic sorcerer in 5th Edition, I hate using wandering monster tables in play (but they can be inspirational in designing mini side quests; I particularly like the non-monster options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything), and I'm annoyed by random magic items like the Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder. Most PCs are chaotic enough!!! Even the paladins, LOL!

One of my favorite things about PF is how they changed Turn Undead (besides getting feats every odd levels and streamlining skills and getting rid of dead levels).

tables can be fun depending on how you use them, i made 4 tables of various different food items because the party were given food packets that were completely random with the food that they gave but had some beneficial effects

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Lady-J wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My least favorite things are random lists and rolling on tables. Rolling on tables is the only reason I would never run a Wild Magic sorcerer in 5th Edition, I hate using wandering monster tables in play (but they can be inspirational in designing mini side quests; I particularly like the non-monster options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything), and I'm annoyed by random magic items like the Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder. Most PCs are chaotic enough!!! Even the paladins, LOL!

One of my favorite things about PF is how they changed Turn Undead (besides getting feats every odd levels and streamlining skills and getting rid of dead levels).

tables can be fun depending on how you use them, i made 4 tables of various different food items because the party were given food packets that were completely random with the food that they gave but had some beneficial effects

I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page. I just don't like it! Also, it's supposed to be random, but it can only express selections from that list. It might have a 1% of summoning a pink elephant, but it is impossible to summon a blue rhinoceros or a green hippopotamus. Why? Also, I get flashbacks from Hackmaster character creation sessions, which are typically longer than Hackmaster campaigns.... :-P

Your PCs play Iron Chef/Chopped??????


SmiloDan wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My least favorite things are random lists and rolling on tables. Rolling on tables is the only reason I would never run a Wild Magic sorcerer in 5th Edition, I hate using wandering monster tables in play (but they can be inspirational in designing mini side quests; I particularly like the non-monster options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything), and I'm annoyed by random magic items like the Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder. Most PCs are chaotic enough!!! Even the paladins, LOL!

One of my favorite things about PF is how they changed Turn Undead (besides getting feats every odd levels and streamlining skills and getting rid of dead levels).

tables can be fun depending on how you use them, i made 4 tables of various different food items because the party were given food packets that were completely random with the food that they gave but had some beneficial effects

I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page. I just don't like it! Also, it's supposed to be random, but it can only express selections from that list. It might have a 1% of summoning a pink elephant, but it is impossible to summon a blue rhinoceros or a green hippopotamus. Why? Also, I get flashbacks from Hackmaster character creation sessions, which are typically longer than Hackmaster campaigns.... :-P

Your PCs play Iron Chef/Chopped??????

no they got a bunch of pre made magical food from an old granny b4 they left the starting area to go questing


Okay. I see what you're saying about the tables. They just gave it a name later on. It was still THAC0, only instead of figuring you're number needed to hit AC0, it was a chart showing what you needed for a slew of AC's, not just zero. Later, they just simply said "you need a 20 to hit AC0" and you figure what you needed to AC4 rather than have a table to use with all the numbers in front of you. When they gave it a name, they also updated the numbers a little. Still all the same system only they gave it a cool name later. I still like the sound of, "I hit AC negative 4!", better than "I hit AC 35". I don't know why. I just like the sound of it. :)


SmiloDan wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My least favorite things are random lists and rolling on tables. Rolling on tables is the only reason I would never run a Wild Magic sorcerer in 5th Edition, I hate using wandering monster tables in play (but they can be inspirational in designing mini side quests; I particularly like the non-monster options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything), and I'm annoyed by random magic items like the Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder. Most PCs are chaotic enough!!! Even the paladins, LOL!

One of my favorite things about PF is how they changed Turn Undead (besides getting feats every odd levels and streamlining skills and getting rid of dead levels).

tables can be fun depending on how you use them, i made 4 tables of various different food items because the party were given food packets that were completely random with the food that they gave but had some beneficial effects
I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page. I just don't like it! Also, it's supposed to be random, but it can only express selections from that list. It might have a 1% of summoning a pink elephant, but it is impossible to summon a blue rhinoceros or a green hippopotamus. Why? [...]

You just need bigger tables spreadsheets!


I can quote the particular entries in the BECMI and 1E AD&D if you really want, but for brevity's sake I'll keep it to the first named entry of THAC0

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: Second Edition (1989 TSR, Inc.), p. 89 wrote:
THAC0 is an acronym for "To Hit Armor Class 0." This is the number a character, NPC, or monster needs to attack an Armor Class 0 target successfully. THAC0 depends on a character's group and level (see Table 53 on page 91). The THAC0 number can be used to calculate the number needed to hit any Armor Class. THAC0 is refigured each time a character increases in level. Using THAC0 speeds the play of combat greatly. (emphasis added).

The chart on page 91, by the way, is also the first instance where the Hit Chart (now called Calculated THAC0S) varies by class.

Concerning rolling on random charts, I found this little gem while I was researching all this THAC0 business.

Dungeons & Dragons Expert Rulebook (July 1983 TSR, Inc.), p. 25 wrote:

Overusing Dice

A common error while Dungeon Mastering is the use of random dice rolls to determine everything. An entire evening can be spoiled if (for example) an unplanned wilderness encounter on the way to the dungeon goes badly for the party. The DM must use good judgment in addition to random tables (emphasis added). Encounters should be scaled to the strength of the party and should be in harmony with the theme of the adventure.

The DM may choose a number within the given die range rather than roll for the amount of damage, number appearing, etc. This may be necessary to allow for a more enjoyable game; heavy damage early in the game may spoil some of the fun.


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Meh. If the party ignores rumors of wyverns nesting in the Hills of Wyverny Doom and decide to go traipsing through there anyway, that's their own fault.


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SmiloDan wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My least favorite things are random lists and rolling on tables. Rolling on tables is the only reason I would never run a Wild Magic sorcerer in 5th Edition, I hate using wandering monster tables in play (but they can be inspirational in designing mini side quests; I particularly like the non-monster options in Xanathar's Guide to Everything), and I'm annoyed by random magic items like the Deck of Many Things and Rod of Wonder. Most PCs are chaotic enough!!! Even the paladins, LOL!

One of my favorite things about PF is how they changed Turn Undead (besides getting feats every odd levels and streamlining skills and getting rid of dead levels).

tables can be fun depending on how you use them, i made 4 tables of various different food items because the party were given food packets that were completely random with the food that they gave but had some beneficial effects

I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page. I just don't like it! Also, it's supposed to be random, but it can only express selections from that list. It might have a 1% of summoning a pink elephant, but it is impossible to summon a blue rhinoceros or a green hippopotamus. Why? Also, I get flashbacks from Hackmaster character creation sessions, which are typically longer than Hackmaster campaigns.... :-P

Your PCs play Iron Chef/Chopped??????

This reminds me that I have heard anecdotally of a D&D group going to a Mexican restaurant, at which one of the players got their words tangled up, and accidentally tried to order a THAC0 . . . .

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Bill Dunn wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:


My 1e AD&D DMG (1979, original printing May, "revised edition" December) is right in front of me, and it has no mention of THAC0, not even in a appendix that I can find.

But Basic evolved in parallel to AD&D, didn't it? AFAIK it's not zeroth-edition AD&D, it's simplified whatever-edition-is-out AD&D. So finding THAC0 in Basic just means in was in AD&D at that point.

Check Appendix E of the DMG. Third column of the alphabetic monster list is To Hit AC 0. At least it is in my printing...

I found that when I checked my copy at home. I couldn't find anywhere that it was actually explained, though. A lot of assumptions were made in the writing of the 1e books.


The DnD/Golarion Great Beyond. Nothing makes sense, everything's stupid, deities should just be patron saints/sinners or something.

In more general terms: When a player goes behind the DM's back to present an idea to another player that the DM won't approve of, gets the other player all hyped for the idea, and then tries to paint the DM as the badguy for saying no.


What's stupid/doesn't make sense about the Great Beyond, exactly?

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blahpers wrote:
What's stupid/doesn't make sense about the Great Beyond, exactly?

Good souls end up in Heaven/Nirvana/Elysium, so it shouldn't be evil to send good souls to good planes by writing their names in the deadbook.

I think I saw a thread about this, and didn't bother to click on it. :-P


o_o

I mean, is that supposed to apply to real life as well? That's a pretty frightening outlook.


blahpers wrote:

o_o

I mean, is that supposed to apply to real life as well? That's a pretty frightening outlook.

Only if you happen to live in a world with an afterlife.


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That's honestly a thing I don't care for- players, and player characters especially should not have reliable information about what happens to you after you die because that's an enormous can of worms that it's not at all necessary to open.


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In my world, different things happen to different races when they die. When a character dies, I tell them nothing. If they are resurrected, I take the player aside and tell them what happens to their soul. They then have the choice to accept the resurrection or not. If they accept it, I then tell the player that their character cannot remember what happens in the afterlife and I ask them not to discuss it with the other players.

Most of my players are into the story, so they keep their mouths shut. Some talk, whatever, it's a game, so I try not to get too bent about it.

Except Elves; elves are immortal, only being killed by injury or illness. But that immortality comes with a price: Elves cannot be raised from the dead; they have but one life to live.


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Having to settle on just one build for my PC.

Silver Crusade

SmiloDan wrote:
I just think keeping the PH open to a specific page just so you can roll on a table is awkward. As is copying the table or photocopying that page.

That's where a laptop, tablet, or phone can come in handy. When I DM I use my laptop, and keep pertinent stuff open or tabbed so I can just click over to it easily. Really helps for encounters too when the monster's stat block isn't on the page you are.

Silver Crusade

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D4s on the ground at 3AM


Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
D4s on the ground at 3AM

Oh, my Holy Ouch! That's just . . . beyond the pale.


Mykull wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
D4s on the ground at 3AM
Oh, my Holy Ouch! That's just . . . beyond the pale.

at least they aren't legos


Lady-J wrote:
Mykull wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
D4s on the ground at 3AM
Oh, my Holy Ouch! That's just . . . beyond the pale.
at least they aren't legos

D4s *can* be worse. One of the people I played with in college had a set of dice with the edges so sharp you could literally cut yourselves with them (like a papercut) if you weren't careful. I don't know why these things existed, but I sure wouldn't want to step on one.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Mykull wrote:
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:
D4s on the ground at 3AM
Oh, my Holy Ouch! That's just . . . beyond the pale.
at least they aren't legos
D4s *can* be worse. One of the people I played with in college had a set of dice with the edges so sharp you could literally cut yourselves with them (like a papercut) if you weren't careful. I don't know why these things existed, but I sure wouldn't want to step on one.

id take a paper cut over losing a 2-3 inch strip of flesh by being gashed by a lego piece anyday


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Now, now, don't squabble. There's no need to pick one best pseudo-caltrop. We'll put lego pieces and extra-sharp d4s on all your floors.

The Exchange

Chaotic Evil Monsters!

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I have twelve-sided d4s!!! They go 123412341234. When I cast magic missile I feel like I'm a hasted nigh-epic barbarian with a greataxe!!!!!!

You can buy them here on paizo.com!!!!


^I tried searching for these, but couldn't find them. Also tried to find rolling pin/prismatic/long dice, but didn't turn up anything.


Picking up d4s. It's one reason my reach builds use glaives (1d10) rather than guisarmes (2d4).

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Oh no! They've been discontinued! :-O :-( :-<

I'm glad I got 6 of them. I really like them. I stopped making characters and running monsters that used d4s before getting them.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:

Oh no! They've been discontinued! :-O :-( :-<

I'm glad I got 6 of them. I really like them. I stopped making characters and running monsters that used d4s before getting them.

People interested in 12-sided d4s can check at Chessex or check with your FLGS and see if they can special order them from Chessex.

You can also check:
The Dice Shop Online
Amazon for Koplow's version (Koplow's own site is hard to find them on)

I LOVE my 12-sided d4s. Easier to roll. Easier to read. Easier to step on without massive pain.


Does anyone know if there is an equivalent to the d4, but for a d3. Perhaps just a d6 with a repeating 1-3?


ChaiGuy wrote:
Does anyone know if there is an equivalent to the d4, but for a d3. Perhaps just a d6 with a repeating 1-3?

I have one of those (a 123123 cubic) but I don't know where it came from.

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I used to have one of those.

It was from a game where you had to slide a puck through a maze by tipping it 1d3 times, and your opponent would try to do the same, I think. Or you had to slide 4 pucks out without sliding the red puck out. Something like that.

It was fun to use during a game of 3-Man. :-P


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Am I the only one who googles stuff?

Chessex
Dice Shop Online

and check this out: Walmart


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My least favorite thing, as both GM and player, is when people are on their phones or Facebook. It's annoying as a player but downright infuriating as a GM. I'm incredibly busy and have precious little time to prepare games for you, at least show me the respect of playing.

*grouse rabble grump*


TheBlackPlague wrote:

My least favorite thing, as both GM and player, is when people are on their phones or Facebook. It's annoying as a player but downright infuriating as a GM. I'm incredibly busy and have precious little time to prepare games for you, at least show me the respect of playing.

*grouse rabble grump*

a phone can be a really good resource if you need to look up game mechanics, a spell you want to use or how one of your feats/items work


Not being able to start an AP because party members keeping dying before we can.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Skimming through this thread has been quite encouraging to me, given that THIS solves the bulk of the complaints listed. :D


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Lady-J wrote:
TheBlackPlague wrote:

My least favorite thing, as both GM and player, is when people are on their phones or Facebook. It's annoying as a player but downright infuriating as a GM. I'm incredibly busy and have precious little time to prepare games for you, at least show me the respect of playing.

*grouse rabble grump*

a phone can be a really good resource if you need to look up game mechanics, a spell you want to use or how one of your feats/items work

I agree - if that's what they're being used for. In my groups, it generally isn't.


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Body Oder...

I spent 5 years driving a garbage truck, if your BO is so bad it makes me want to gag, you probably shouldn't be out in public until you reacquaint yourself with soap and water.

I honestly feel bad for the owner of a small game store here in town, because even heavy handed use of bleach doesn't completely remove the smell of his customer's BO.

The distracted player used to bug me, but I have found just some random dice rolls pulls them back in pretty quick.

Silver Crusade

TheBlackPlague wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
TheBlackPlague wrote:

My least favorite thing, as both GM and player, is when people are on their phones or Facebook. It's annoying as a player but downright infuriating as a GM. I'm incredibly busy and have precious little time to prepare games for you, at least show me the respect of playing.

*grouse rabble grump*

a phone can be a really good resource if you need to look up game mechanics, a spell you want to use or how one of your feats/items work
I agree - if that's what they're being used for. In my groups, it generally isn't.

what about bored grappled casters during a combat?


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Nodrog wrote:

Body Oder...

I spent 5 years driving a garbage truck, if your BO is so bad it makes me want to gag, you probably shouldn't be out in public until you reacquaint yourself with soap and water.

I honestly feel bad for the owner of a small game store here in town, because even heavy handed use of bleach doesn't completely remove the smell of his customer's BO.

The distracted player used to bug me, but I have found just some random dice rolls pulls them back in pretty quick.

I used to belong to a LARP organization, imagine those individuals after a couple days of camping and running around in the mountains....


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ChaiGuy wrote:
Does anyone know if there is an equivalent to the d4, but for a d3. Perhaps just a d6 with a repeating 1-3?

Just search "d3 dice" and you'll probably find someone selling them.

I don't actually like dice that have repeated numbers on, because they're too easy to mix up with other dice of the same shape.

"I've been rolling badly this session. I don't think I've got anything higher than a ten all day."
"That's... not a d20."

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I have a dwarf cleric that sometimes never rolls over a 4 for initiative. Even though I use a d20, a few of them! It's only initiative that affected, though.


Quote:

what about bored grappled casters during a combat?

Hopefully it convinces the GM how dull and slow life gets when grapples appear


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thenovalord wrote:
Quote:

what about bored grappled casters during a combat?

Hopefully it convinces the GM how dull and slow life gets when grapples appear

Or that the caster learns they need to have ways to deal with being grappled.

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