If you could cast one spell per level in real life what would you pick?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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CL 20 SLA. Times per day = 10 - spell level. I can work with that.

It hasn’t been mentioned but I threw a lower-level spell (7th) into a higher level slot (8th).

0. Prestidigitation
1. Comprehend Languages
2. Fox’s Cunning
3. Tongues
4. Stoneskin
5. Telekinesis
6. Heal
7. Greater Teleport
8. Mage’s Magnificent Mansion
9. Time Stop

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I've been pondering whether foresight might actually be a strong 9th level choice. Given that some people's strategies seem to involve high levels of publicity, having a perfect "spidey sense" might pay off bigtime.


Isonaroc wrote:
Keep Calm and Carrion wrote:
I'm also surprised not to see a lot of interest in spells like Seek Thoughts and Discern Lies, which could transform human relationships.
That's why I went with detect thoughts. Also, with shadow enchantment, you can just drop a zone of truth. Or, hell, pop dominate person and order them to speak the truth. Though I am reticent to mess with dominate spells unless in dire straits. I stayed away from stuff like [Protection from Arrows} partly because I don't plan on getting shot at, but mostly because HP are an abstraction, so having DR 10 is a nebulous concept at best.

Zone of Truth appeals to me too, except that the subjects are aware of the effect and could pivot away from questions or simply not answer.

Suggestion might be a less ethically troubling spell than Dominate Person for compelling the truth.

Protection from Arrows can be cast on others, too. I understand what you mean about hit points being an abstraction. Since modern firearms can fell an elephant (93 hp) and shoot through 1/3 inch of cast iron (hardness 10, hp 10), DR 10 starts to sound less than impressive.


alternate divine emissary list:

0. Light
1. Comprehend Languages
2. Calm Emotions
3. Tongues
4. Restoration
5. Raise Dead
6. Heal
7. Regenerate
8. Greater Teleport
9. Miracle


0. Prestidigitation (yay, I am always clean)
1. Endure Elements (yay, I am always comfortable)
2. Locate Object (yay, I found my cell phone and/or wallet)
3. Tongues (yay, no more subs or dubs for me)
4. Bountiful Banquet (yay, I no longer need to worry about a basic human need for survival and it is delicious!)
5. Commune (yay, the mysterious powers just helped me derive the Powerball numbers and definitely removed awkward moments from my dating life)
6. Heal (yay, I am always in perfect health and no longer need to sleep)
7. Mage’s Magnificent Mansion (yay, I no longer have to worry about another basic human need and I live in comfort)
8. Resurrection (yay, live and death is meaningless to me)
9. Interplanetary Teleport (yay, I am anywhere I want to be with no risk of failure)


0 Prestidigitation: there's really nothing else as useful
1 Polypurpose Panacea: hello magical sleep aid
2 Silence: because I sure could use a nice quiet spot every so often
3 Create Food and Water: I never have to worry about starving, combined with presti' to take care of that bland taste bit
4 Greater Make Whole: in case make whole doesn't apply to modern-era tech
5 Fabricate, assuming it can be used to put together my 40k models :p
6 Heal: can't think of anything better for this level
7 Greater Teleport: never have to worry about the commute.
8 Polymorph Any Object: using this on myself, I should be able to stay in dragon form for 12 hours per cast, so all day if I want.
9 Shades: mimic any conjuration spell of 8th level or lower, including summon monster for all those juicy SLAs


0 Prestidigitation - no real need to explain
1 Polypurpose Panacea - for the same reason as Darigaaz
2 Greater Detect Magic - it might be important to know what the rest of you have done
3 Arcane Sight - it might be important to know what the rest of you are doing, when you're doing it
4 Plant Growth - for the garden
5 Awaken - so I can have intelligent conversations
6 Heal - staying alive sounds good
7 Greater Teleport - it's alway sunny and pleasant somewhere
8 Moment of Prescience - succeeding at everything should be handy
9 Shapechange - fun!


Here's what I would go for:
0th: Prestigitation (obviously)
1st: Polypurpose Panacea (sleep is for the weak)
2nd: Apport Object (All the convenience of never losing your cell phone assuming you stay in range with the added utility of minor teleportation!)
3rd: Fly (I would go with Overland Flight, but it lives in level 5 alongside Telekinesis....)
4th: Dimension Door (What can I say? It's teleportation)
5th: Telekinesis (Because it's the coolest power ever)
6th: Permanent Image (Because I want to, that's why.)
7th: Limited Wish (There's a ton of spells I would want to cast of lower levels on occasion that simply aren't common enough to warrant their own spell slot. Things like curing diseases, repairing my computer, creating magical houses/making my own food, and other events that could really benefit from magic, but just aren't that common.)
8th: Polymorph Any Object (Last I checked, technology was neither magical nor 'of great inherent value,' meaning I should be able to transform a pebble into a computer. Plus, you know, I can turn into a dragon and stuff.)
9th: Wish (This is for the big stuff that needs to get done and its little brother cant deal with. Stuff like long-range teleportation, raising the dead, curing fatal wounds, creating demiplanes, and similar stuff like that.)


I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Asumming 1) no do-everything spells: wish, shades, miracle, variants (including minor variants)

0) Mending (cellphones, computers, house repairs, cars...)
1) Unseen Servant
2) Tears To Wine (+10 to wis/int checks - that's the equivalent of a +20 to Int & Wis - and your CL and # of castings mean it's going all the time. you are now the smartest individual in the world)
3) Magic Circle (planar binding)
4) Dimensional Anchor (planar binding)
5) Grand Destiny (stacks with tears to wine, and works on opposed Cha checks and SR checks)
6) Geas (lets keep the inevitable betrayals and backstabbing to a minimum)
7) Greater Teleport (travel)
8) Greater Planar Binding
9) Summon Monster IX (general utility, including combat and the ability to generate clerics on demand...)


pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.


Avoron wrote:
pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.

Not sure I would buy that. Depends on the cosmology.

It's obvious that some magic exists in the "universe" (or dimension) that is theorized - you have castable spells. So there is magic for outsiders/conjured things to work with. Futhermore, a bunch of other spells are apparently bringing in energy (fireball anyone) from somewhere : ??? other universes ???

You're binding/calling them from other dimensions/universes (which are presumably other universes) - presumably more magically active dimensions than ours. One implication of what you have proposed is that dimensional travel spells open into empty planes of no critters... allowing infinite resource exploitation. There are others...


pad300 wrote:
One implication of what you have proposed is that dimensional travel spells open into empty planes of no critters... allowing infinite resource exploitation.

Actually, what I'm proposing is that the real world doesn't have any planes other than the Material, and gaining the ability to cast spells doesn't change that. So if you want a demiplane to travel to, you'll have to make one yourself.

Of course, there are other perfectly valid interpretations as well, and I don't want to overthink things by insisting that this "what if you had magic?" scenario isn't realistic enough. It just seems a little bit off to assume that all these fantasy creatures would just be hanging around for you to bind in an otherwise nonmagical reality. At the very least, it would imply that these creatures could easily show up on Earth by other means.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Avoron wrote:
pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.

There could be. No one knows for sure. Science has yet to prove that either way (as far as I know anyways).


Chris Ballard wrote:
Avoron wrote:
pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.

There could be. No one knows for sure. Science has yet to prove that either way (as far as I know anyways).

Scientifically proving nonexistance can be pretty hard.


Chris Ballard wrote:
Avoron wrote:
pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.

There could be. No one knows for sure. Science has yet to prove that either way (as far as I know anyways).

It is very, very difficult to prove something does not exist.


Chris Ballard wrote:
Avoron wrote:
pad300 wrote:
I am surprised no one has gone with planar binding...

Maybe because there isn't anything to bind?

You get these spells in real life, remember, and in real life there aren't alternate planes full of magical creatures waiting for you to call them. Planar binding just brings creatures to you, it doesn't create creatures that weren't there in the first place. Summoning spells should probably likewise be off the table, and even simulacrums (other than of yourself, of course) are iffy.

There could be. No one knows for sure. Science has yet to prove that either way (as far as I know anyways).

Sure, there could be, in the sense that there could be a teapot orbiting the Sun somewhere between Earth and Mars. But saying that "science has yet to prove that either way" is woefully misrepresenting how science works. If entities resembling powerful Pathfinder outsiders did exist, they would be highly likely to have some observable effect on the material world, and so every single scientific observation that has not observed any such extraplanar influence serves as strong empirical evidence against their existence.

But even if that weren't the case, the burden of proof rests pretty heavily on the ones proposing the existence of complicated undetectable alternate universes. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, and so on.


Several of us took survivability and long-range teleports, right? Just buy a teapot and get to work.


Loren Pechtel wrote:

Amazing how many people chose lists without some heavy duty healing in them.

Heal and remove disease are extremely important spells and can serve as your source of income. (Plenty of rich people would pay huge sums for those spells.)

And Regenerate. What would insurance companies pay for new limbs?

Raise Dead (Resurrection, True Resurrection, etc...) is definitely a cash cow.

Restore Youth (from Advanced Arcana, Volume 2) would be the king of cash spells.


0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

8th - Greater Planar Ally

Because the world needs more angels.

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.


JDLPF wrote:

0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

8th - Greater Planar Ally

Because the world needs more angels.

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.

Heal will make Stabilize, Diagnose Disease, Delay Pain and Accept Affliction redundant. Heal will stabilize the target cure it's disease and remove whatever gives it pain. it will remove all conditions that accept affliction will transfer.

So 4 of your 9 spells are redundant with one of them. That's why people pick up fly and prestidigitation and similar.


Metamagic Spells allowed? Specifically to raise levels to avoid overlaps


Dastis wrote:
Metamagic Spells allowed? Specifically to raise levels to avoid overlaps

I always get that should be a class feature for all casters.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have no clue why anybody would pick unseen servant... When you could pick unseen crew!

I mean, think about it: You could have 1 invisible force do your chores, but it has to stay within 75 feet, can only preform 1 task at a time, and it only has 2 str...

OR you could have 10 invisible pirates doing your chores! They have a str of 10, and can wander 1,200 feet away- That should cover most residencies. You can lounge wherever you like in your house, and your invisible pirate butlers will clean your house, without you having to be within 75 feet.

Also, they can't fight... But they could most certainly help team lift a fallen tree out of the way, help out in a car crash, speed up grocery shopping exponentially... ext. ext.

Grand Lodge

Okay so my spell list is making the assumption that they're SLA and don't have costly components and the no one has more than 4 HD, not picking any of the spells that replicate lower level spells because that's cheating.
0th-Mage Hand
It's a really sweet quality of life spell that just feels so good. You get to be a jedi, how sweet is that.

1st-Feather Fall
So I don't have to worry about falling off things or people around me falling off things/ being crushed by stuff. Not something I ever hope to encounter but is something I wouldn't be able to forgive myself for if it did.

2nd-Gentle Repose
For when I want to go unnoticed by people, it's a really versatile spell the effectively lets me go through life unmolested. It wont work through cameras but it's still worth it.

3rd-Remove Disease
Now this may be a bit odd but in real life their is no such thing as death by old age, only death by disease. If we step away from pure game design for a moment and look at medical science, assuming this spell removes all diseases from the target it should cure everything from bacterial/viral infections and genetic disease to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's. Effectively this spell alone is the key to immortality, you'll still age but your body will never hit the point of sever atrophy as long as you make an effort to remain fit. Do that and with this spell short of violent death you'll live forever and not have to worry about your health. And on a personal level this spell can do so much good for people in the world, not only will it let you make a killing healing cancers and such from the wealthy but it can also be used to save lives, combined with Hidden Presence no one even needs to know you were there, sidestepping the unfortunate attention.

4th-Emergency force sphere
The number 1 spell to protect yourself and people around you from sudden violence. Seriously, this spell will save your life for however long you may live I cannot over state this.

5th-FeebleMind
There will come a time when you need to defend yourself, or when someone really really crosses a line. This spell provides a nonlethal but permanent way of removing people, crush the mind but leave the body whole.

6th-Geas
Lets you direct people into acting how you wish. As a SLA it only take a standard action, no save, nothing. Really, the implications this spell has is, disturbing but I would rather have it than not.

7th-Teleport, Greater
Travel,see the world! Also useful for throwing off pursers, with access to Google maps you have vision pretty much anywhere in the world and can go everywhere.

8th-Polymorph Any Object
Yeah, stay young forever? Done. Plastic surgey? Done. Turn that gun into an equal amount of paper clips? Done. Change harmful toxic waste/pollution into something more eco friendly. Convert basic materials into more rare and useful ones. Repopulate endangered species by turning housecats into tigers ect ect.

9th-Terraform
You expect to live on this planet for a long, long time. Having the ability to repair environmental damage from climate change will be the single, most, valuable tool in your arsenals. Being able to convert inhospitable dessert into a bread-bowl is nothing short of miraculous, live long enough to assist in terraforming Mars, litteraly. Repair polluted industrial wasteland, clean up dumps that you ploy-morphed into dirt, regrow rain-forest. Will it take time, yes but you'll live long enough to make an impact.


Will.Spencer wrote:
Restore Youth (from Advanced Arcana, Volume 2) would be the king of cash spells.

If only Paizo would print volumes of spells instead of having to rely on third party publishers.


JDLPF wrote:

0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

All handled by

Quote:

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

Quote:

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

Astral Projection from a secure location (demiplane) defeats both time and death. Regeneration is moot when your body can be recreated in seconds after a non-fatal injury.

Quote:

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.

9th level spells cannot be duplicated with Miracle, and it is a 9th level spell that both stops the aging process and makes you unkillable.


Balancer wrote:


5th-FeebleMind
There will come a time when you need to defend yourself, or when someone really really crosses a line. This spell provides a nonlethal but permanent way of removing people, crush the mind but leave the body whole.

As someone who has watched both his grandmother and great grandmother die from Alzheimer's, I would say this is a fate far crueler than death.

Both to the target and to their family and loved ones.

Quote:

9th-Terraform

You expect to live on this planet for a long, long time. Having the ability to repair environmental damage from climate change will be the single, most, valuable tool in your arsenals. Being able to convert inhospitable dessert into a bread-bowl is nothing short of miraculous, live long enough to assist in terraforming Mars, litteraly. Repair polluted industrial wasteland, clean up dumps that you ploy-morphed into dirt, regrow rain-forest. Will it take time, yes but you'll live long enough to make an impact.

Given time and resources, Create Demiplane allows you to build a better world, literally.


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Balancer wrote:

2nd-Gentle Repose

For when I want to go unnoticed by people, it's a really versatile spell the effectively lets me go through life unmolested. It wont work through cameras but it's still worth it.
Quote:

Gentle Repose

Components V, S, M/DF (salt and a copper piece for each of the corpse's eyes)
Target corpse touched
You preserve the remains of a dead creature so that they do not decay. Doing so effectively extends the time limit on raising that creature from the dead (see raise dead). Days spent under the influence of this spell don't count against the time limit. Additionally, this spell makes transporting a slain (and thus decaying) comrade less unpleasant.
The spell also works on severed body parts and the like.

What the heck are you doing with your life that this would prevent people from hassling you?!?

Are you in some kind of Weekend at Bernie's situation?


Just a thought, but fox’s cunning might be worth it or owls wisdom, if equivalent magic items are not available @being able to temporarily be smarter when you have a problem?

What caster level - it matters for durations.


Teleport without error. Free round-the-world travel, no lines, no waiting, and no carbon footprint!

Grand Lodge

The Gentle repose spell was an error from an earlier list, it should read Hidden Presence. Don't know how that slipped by me.


Zautos' wrote:
JDLPF wrote:

0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

8th - Greater Planar Ally

Because the world needs more angels.

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.

Heal will make Stabilize, Diagnose Disease, Delay Pain and Accept Affliction redundant. Heal will stabilize the target cure it's disease and remove whatever gives it pain. it will remove all conditions that accept affliction will transfer.

So 4 of your 9 spells are redundant with one of them. That's why people pick up fly and prestidigitation and similar.

Except you only get 2 or 3 heals /day and a few regenerates.

You can help 10x more people by having more options. Why waste a heal when you can use a cure spell.


*Thelith wrote:

Except you only get 2 or 3 heals /day and a few regenerates.

You can help 10x more people by having more options. Why waste a heal when you can use a cure spell.

That's why you just make permanent symbols of healing. After all, there are lots of people to save, and there's only one of you.

Until you start making simulacra, of course. Then there are an arbitrary number of you, and you can save everyone.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

I just don't encounter enough dying people within seconds of their injury to make stabilize worth it. Maybe if I was an EMT, sure, but I've only had to provide serious first aid like twice ever in my whole life.


*Thelith wrote:

Except you only get 2 or 3 heals /day and a few regenerates.

You can help 10x more people by having more options. Why waste a heal when you can use a cure spell.

That's what your replaceable planar bound creatures are for if you selected Greater Planar Binding.

Planetar Angels are the obvious choice, though if you combine one with an Akhana Aeon, you've got cure serious wounds and gentle repose at-will along with the Restoration and free Raise Deads to deal with getting through the backlog eventually. Even without the Akhana Aeon, though, Planetars have

It'd only take a bit more than 6 years to have one of them for the ~4416 cities with populations of 150K or more, and the Planetars literally cannot be killed by any means that the people of Earth have at their disposal. That's without opting to use Miracle to replicate Simulacrum and stepping your time table up.

Ghaele Azatas and Trumpeter Archons would have their own potential uses, as would Morrigna psychopomps and Couatls.

Of course, the problem then becomes getting them to do what you want instead of accidentally a totalitarian regime of angels.

Granted... if you have Miracle, then all you'd really need to do would be to cheese out enough Simulacra of yourself to become your own demographic and then the next day they could use Miracle to replicate Greater Planar Binding thanks to Summoners, or just regular Planar Binding if that's too cheesy for the powers that be. Akhana Aeons are even still accessible via regular Planar Binding.


Alex Mack wrote:
No one down with invisibility?

All fun and games until you try to cross a street and get run over because a driver does not see you.

Silver Crusade

JDLPF wrote:

0th - Stabilize

A four year old boy falls off his bike, not wearing a helmet, and inside his brain an artery tears open. A father of two, driving home late at night, has an accident and his pelvis is crushed on impact, pinning him inside the wreck. A pregnant woman is the victim of domestic abuse, arriving in an emergency room as blood soaks the towel she holds between her legs.

This spell stops death. Keep your Prestidigitation.

No, it doesn't stop death. It stops a very ill defined specific form of death that doesn't translate well to the real world. It wouldn't do a thing to stop someone from bleeding to death, because stabilize doesn't stop bleeding. This is why I stayed away from spells that deal with abstractions like DR and HP, because the things the game is simulating don't correlate to the simulations.

Quote:

1st - Diagnose Disease

Know your enemy. This is the foundation of victory. Save precious hours, prevent unnecessary suffering and invasive testing. Remove risk of misdiagnosis.

Are you a doctor? Because you're probably not going to have a whole lot of use for this if you aren't. Additionally, the way the spell is worded I don't know if it would work on things like autoimmune diseases or cancer, which are the two conditions that generally prove the hardest to nail down a diagnosis, nor would it work on genetic diseases or the like. As far as I'm aware, all Pathfinder diseases are infections or parasites. Again, it's getting into abstractions. Assuming it does work, you can diagnose a few people each day, I guess that's something.

Quote:

2nd - Delay Pain

If all you can give is mercy, give it to the best of your ability.

We have stuff to deal with pain. You'd probably be better off with lesser restoration, soothing word, or even CMW.

Quote:

3rd - Accept Affliction

Because I could never look a mother in the eyes and say I sacrificed the power to save her child from death for a few minutes of flight per day.

So, instead you'll condemn yourself to death? Because that's what accept affliction would do in that case. If you could cure the condition, just do that instead. And how would you choose between two mothers who have dying children? In any case, remove disease and remove blindness/deafness are the same level, you'd be better off with one of those. You could also pick up symbol of healing, make it permanent, then anyone who gets near it gets some love.

Quote:

4th - Reincarnate

The only way to cure old age.

Yeah, but who do you give it to? You're not going to cast the spell 7 billion times, in the end you're going to be playing god. I don't like that very much.

Quote:

5th - Raise Dead

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Except raise Dead doesn't destroy death, it delays it (and significantly weakens those you use it one). Eventually they'll still die of old age (unless you deign to use your limited reincarnate resources on them), and each time they come back it saps them of their vitality.

Quote:

6th - Heal

Even if it will never be enough.

7th - Regenerate

Missing limbs, missing organs, all restored in seconds.

Solid choices all.

Quote:

8th - Greater Planar Ally

Because the world needs more angels.

The only wrinkle in this is whether or not you're able to pay the price.

Quote:

9th - Miracle

When all else fails.

Yep


Isonorac wrote:
Yeah, but who do you give it to? You're not going to cast the spell 7 billion times

Sure you can. By using miracle to create simulacra of yourself you can get seven billion casters in about three days. Of course, you'd probably want to progress a little bit more slowly than that so you can get the infrastructure in place to organize and sustain them all, but it still shouldn't take too long to make death stop being a thing.

Quote:
in the end you're going to be playing god.

And what's wrong with that, exactly? If you don't play god then the cancer cells and malaria-carrying mosquitoes will.

Quote:
I don't like that very much.

Not to be rude, but whether you like it or not really doesn't matter in the slightest. What matters is whether the people whose lives the spell is saving like it.


The question boils down to what kind of god you would choose to be and how you would go about it, after all.


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Coidzor wrote:
The question boils down to what kind of god you would choose to be and how you would go about it, after all.

Yeah, call it hubris, but I'm fairly confident that I'd be better at wielding ultimate power over life and death than a mosquito.


Give me suggestion, mass suggestion and a recliner and I'm good.


Isonaroc wrote:
No, it doesn't stop death. It stops a very ill defined specific form of death that doesn't translate well to the real world. It wouldn't do a thing to stop someone from bleeding to death, because stabilize doesn't stop bleeding. This is why I stayed away from spells that deal with abstractions like DR and HP, because the things the game is simulating don't correlate to the simulations.

I don't care if it doesn't stop someone bleeding to death from a severed artery. I don't care if it doesn't stop them from dying of blood poisoning. Because at the end of the day, nothing else I could choose has the potential to save more lives than this spell, and if I only get one choice, I'm gonna take the one that at least gives someone a chance at survival. This spell makes someone who's dying stabilize and heal naturally. In my books, that's a miracle.

Isonaroc wrote:
Are you a doctor? Because you're probably not going to have a whole lot of use for this if you aren't. Additionally, the way the spell is worded I don't know if it would work on things like autoimmune diseases or cancer, which are the two conditions that generally prove the hardest to nail down a diagnosis, nor would it work on genetic diseases or the like. As far as I'm aware, all Pathfinder diseases are infections or parasites. Again, it's getting into abstractions. Assuming it does work, you can diagnose a few people each day, I guess that's something.

I don't need to be a doctor, so long as I have one standing next to me ready to hear everything I can tell them about the disease. I'd have no intention of trying to handle the workload on my own. I'd surround myself with the best team of experts I could gather. And given enough time during the hours I can't use magic, you can bet your ass I'd be earning my doctorate of medicine.

Isonaroc wrote:
We have stuff to deal with pain. You'd probably be better off with lesser restoration, soothing word, or even CMW.

Bull. Go look around a palliative care ward. Or just watch this. Plenty of people reach the point where painkillers are simply ineffective, either due to resistance or the sheer scope of their illness. Ever seen someone vomiting nonstop from morphine side-effects when they're not too busy moaning in agony? Giving someone 20 hours without pain would be a pure miracle. People don't want to see the truth of human suffering that occurs during end of life care, but it's a real fact that our modern medicine is often inadequate when it comes to treating suffering of terminal illness.

Isonaroc wrote:
So, instead you'll condemn yourself to death? Because that's what accept affliction would do in that case. If you could cure the condition, just do that instead. And how would you choose between two mothers who have dying children? In any case, remove disease and remove blindness/deafness are the same level, you'd be better off with one of those. You could also pick up symbol of healing, make it permanent, then anyone who gets near it gets some love.

Symbol of healing only heals wounds that would heal naturally. It doesn't heal disease, poison, blindness, deafness, or any of the other conditions handled by accept affliction. Remove disease wouldn't give someone their sight back. Remove blindness/deafness wouldn't cure a disease. And I only get one choice. So it's a numbers game, where using accept affliction can let me cure any condition seven times per day, gathering them all upon myself instead, then cure it all with a single heal. I can't see any more efficient way to help as many people per day as with this approach. And so long as the afflictions I receive aren't critically life threatening, I can probably get by with only using a heal spell on myself once every few weeks or months.

Isonaroc wrote:
Yeah, but who do you give it to? You're not going to cast the spell 7 billion times, in the end you're going to be playing god. I don't like that very much.

I'll give it to anyone that needs it. I don't care what their race, religion, wealth or gender is, because they're all humans they deserve to live as long as possible. Maybe I can't save everyone. That doesn't matter. I'd still try anyway, if I had the power.

And perhaps, if the fates are kind, those wealthy few who would inevitably use their riches to try and get first in line might learn a valuable life lesson in compassion and equality for all, if they spent a few decades as another gender, another race, another skin color.

Isonaroc wrote:
Except raise Dead doesn't destroy death, it delays it (and significantly weakens those you use it one). Eventually they'll still die of old age (unless you deign to use your limited reincarnate resources on them), and each time they come back it saps them of their vitality.

I'll take that trade. If I can give someone back their child, husband, father, mother, wife, even if they're weaker afterwards. And I think anyone else would take that trade too.


The above post is the reason why threads like these are a bad idea to make.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The above post is the reason why threads like these are a bad idea to make.

The above post is the reason why threads like these are absolutely fascinating.


Avoron wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The above post is the reason why threads like these are a bad idea to make.
The above post is the reason why threads like these are absolutely fascinating.

People will argue about anything.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The above post is the reason why threads like these are a bad idea to make.
The above post is the reason why threads like these are absolutely fascinating.
People will argue about anything.

No they won't.


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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Avoron wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The above post is the reason why threads like these are a bad idea to make.
The above post is the reason why threads like these are absolutely fascinating.
People will argue about anything.
No they won't.

I disagree, and therefore I'm going to separate every paragraph you wrote into individual quotes and reply to each one separately.

Silver Crusade

Avoron wrote:
Stuff about simulacrum

Uh, no, you really couldn't get 7 billion simulacra in three days. Granted, there's no GM to consult, but I highly doubt that creating billions of simulacra is covered by the powerful request clause. And your simulacra would be highly unlikely to be able to use miracle themselves to self replicate (it's hard to say, because this gets into that whole abstraction thing again).

Quote:
Stuff about playing god

What's wrong with that is you will be unable to respond to everyone equally. You are limited by your number of castings and by your location. Even if you attempt to be purely egalitarian, you are still by the very nature of existence, going to be choosing to save one person at the expense of another. I mean, you can spam simulacra I guess, and they can probably take care of the minor stuff (again, how powerful a simulacrum would be in this scenario is incredibly undefined). Inevitably people will get angry, and things will get really ugly. And that's what I don't like: the idea that I am valuing one person's life over another.

Avoron wrote:
Coidzor wrote:
The question boils down to what kind of god you would choose to be and how you would go about it, after all.
Yeah, call it hubris, but I'm fairly confident that I'd be better at wielding ultimate power over life and death than a mosquito.

Someone will inevitably disagree. Strenuously.

JDLPF wrote:
Stuff about stabilize

Here's a list of cleric and wizard cantrips that almost certainly would save more lives than stabilize: create water, detect poison, purify food & drink, drench, resistance, daze, mage hand, prestidigitation. Granted, some of those are pretty situational, but they're still less situational than stabilize, which may not have a situation outside of Pathfinder.

Quote:
Stuff about pain

As someone with a chronic pain condition, I'm well aware. It's still a less useful spell than the others I mentioned.

Quote:
Stuff about accept affliction

A fair point, but there's probably a more efficient way of doing it that doesn't risk the golden goose (e.g. You)

Quote:
Stuff about reincarnation

Yeah, but the fact is that, regardless of how egalitarian you try to be, you're going to be leaving some people, huge numbers of people, out. Regardless of your intentions, this will cause pandemonium on a planetary scale. Once people become aware that there is someone literally walking around with the key to eternal life in their pocket, there will be riots in the streets trying to get to you. Without any hyperbole, this is something that would start wars. The irony is that eternal life would result in the death of millions or billions. Unless they just kill you. Either way, it's a pretty rough sell in my opinion.


As the question doesn't suggest restricting the answer to a single spell list... I won't.

0) Prestidigitation:
The most versatile of all cantrips, it handles everything from ensuring all food is delicious, to keeping oneself smelling like roses (literally if desired). Mending was still a major contender.

1) Mindlink:
While unseen servant is a contender, the ability to impart 10 minutes worth of complex information to another person in six seconds, regardless of a lack of common language?. For me, the winner is clear, even over comprehend languages.

2) Make Whole:
There were two contenders for me: communal endure elements and lesser restoration. The ability to repair smashed cars, damaged buildings etc in 10 minutes with a simple spell? Hard to beat. Especially since, unlike fabricate it costs nothing to repair said objects.

3) Tongues:
The ability to understand and speak any language? Hard to contend with this one, though major image came close.

4) Reincarnate:
I'm astounded people go for age resistance over reincarnate. Age resistance lets you avoid penalties for aging; Reincarnate lets you (and others) live as long as you want to, by virtue of the fact that it creates a new young-adult body for the subject each time.
The pro is you can, in essence, live forever (if you want). The con is that you don't get to choose your form for each life, and sometimes you'll be a gnome :(

5) Fabricate:
Hard to pass by this one. It's the spell that lets you build, create and most of all, generate wealth. Need a statuette of yourself for contingency? Make your own at 1/3rd the price - or turn the one from your last life into it. The versatility is beyond belief.

6) Contingency:
The backup-plan spell that will save your behind more times than you can count.

7) Regenerate:
No expensive material component, no drawbacks, just restore health, limbs and livelihoods.

8) Create Demiplane:
While create greater demiplane gives more options, this has the main things necessary to create ones own slice of heaven.

9) Miracle:
Wish is more powerful, true, but also comes with a 25,000gp (over $10M USD) to cast, whereas miracle does not unless you are trying to go for something unique, while emulating other spells, such as heal, greater teleport, wall of stone and so on costs nothing. It's the catch-all to fill in the blanks.


Isonaroc wrote:
Uh, no, you really couldn't get 7 billion simulacra in three days. Granted, there's no GM to consult, but I highly doubt that creating billions of simulacra is covered by the powerful request clause. And your simulacra would be highly unlikely to be able to use miracle themselves to self replicate (it's hard to say, because this gets into that whole abstraction thing again).

Uh, yeah, you really could get the simulacra, no special requests necessary. Each simulacrum has half of your class levels in commoner or expert, but all of its abilities not based on class level remain exactly the same. Your simulacra can absolutely use miracle themselves. So you can cast miracle to duplicate simulacrum in less than six seconds, then your simulacrum can make another simulacrum, and that simulacrum can make another. So at the end of day one you'll have 14,400 simulacra. The next day, each of you get your miracles back, so you can each create a new chain of 14,400 simulacra, leaving you with around 207,360,000. On day three you can just repeat the process to get seven billion or far more.

Isonaroc wrote:
Someone will inevitably disagree. Strenuously.

Sure, just like plenty of people strenuously disagree with the mosquitoes. The difference being that those people get mercilessly slaughtered.

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