
Sanityfaerie |
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Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else. (Significant other? Younger sibling? Kid?) Regardless, that person is willing to let you have a lot of influence over their build, and you can make your own build, and you're specifically looking for a situation where the two of you have lots of fun synergy and support that you can provide one another, while still getting along with the rest of the party. So... what kind of interesting builds are there out there to work with?
It was commented that we should have more CharOp types talking about party op, and this is explicitly an attempt to get the ball rolling on that one a bit.
To get thigns started, I introduce the moderately unintuitive classic - two paladins. With two of you, you can provide a pretty solid steel wall to keep the enemy from getting past you, and if you stay close enough to one another, it doesn't matter who's getting swung at - the other one can punish. Having the lay on hands able to work both ways gives a nice bit of sustain, too.

Iron_Matt17 |

Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else. (Significant other? Younger sibling? Kid?) Regardless, that person is willing to let you have a lot of influence over their build, and you can make your own build, and you're specifically looking for a situation where the two of you have lots of fun synergy and support that you can provide one another, while still getting along with the rest of the party. So... what kind of interesting builds are there out there to work with?
It was commented that we should have more CharOp types talking about party op, and this is explicitly an attempt to get the ball rolling on that one a bit.
To get thigns started, I introduce the moderately unintuitive classic - two paladins. With two of you, you can provide a pretty solid steel wall to keep the enemy from getting past you, and if you stay close enough to one another, it doesn't matter who's getting swung at - the other one can punish. Having the lay on hands able to work both ways gives a nice bit of sustain, too.
I very much agree with this, 2 Paladins is a lot of fun. Especially the combo of a Weapon Ally & Shield Ally. But honestly, Paladin synergizes well with most Martials. I really like Giant Barb/Paladin combo for high damage and high defence. Gang Up Thief Rogue/Paladin combo is great as well. Then of course there’s the Fighter/Paladin combo…

Kilraq Starlight |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

Since it never gets enough love or recognition, for a planned duo team I've always been a fan of a Fighter(or Gunslinger) with the Sniping Duo archetype, and a fellow melee (Barbarian, Ranger, Fellow fighter, Rogue, Thaumaturge, Magus, etc).
The additional damage bonus from the dedication stacks with most melee classes bonus to damage, and the other goodies the archetype gives are just fun and very thematic.
Best of all, once you have the feats you want you can branch either of them into fun alternatives, such as the Eldritch Archer, Unexpected Sharpshooter, or whatever else fits with the theme the pair desires.

SuperBidi |

Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else.
PFS characters, so you'll have to adapt to any kind of party. You must be able to handle a bit of everything (especially skills as skill challenges are extremely important in PFS) so your double Paladin example is exactly what I would not bring in a PFS party. I'd focus on characters able to complement each other before looking for any kind of combo.
For example:
Minotaur Barbarian + healer: A heavy hitter raising crazy attention and a healer, a very nice combat combination that can get into any party. Also, very different skill set covered.
Alchemist + 2-weapon martial: The Alchemist can really duplicate the damage output of a good 2-weapon handler. Also, once again, you contribute to very different areas and can fit in most parties. Only question raised: what will Alchemist look like after PC2.

Ruzza |
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While not quite in the spirit of the question, I did have something similar come up around the launch of the APG. A friend and I both had some time off and wanted to meet for a one-shot where I would play around with some monster and encounter design while he would run a four-person party himself. Let me just get this out of the way - doing this was incredibly not fun for either of us at the end of the day. Turns out that besides the obvious social element missing with so many others, turning inward to strategize and plot left us both really drained.
But my friend made a team with one single goal: support the fighter with the heavy pick. Now it's been years, but I want to say that his characters were all level 7. His group was...
Elven fighter with a heavy pick and Sudden Charge.
Human (Half-elf) monk with Flurry of Maneuvers and Assurance (Athletics).
Human bard.
Elven wizard with Quick Repair.
This was around the time that my player was fairly insistent that if a group forms around "one DPR" then they would be successful. He did prove that somewhat correct, but also ammended that statement to "it's pretty inflexible if you play that way." Fights would start with him immediately Delaying everyone in the party to stack up their initiative together. This way the bard could start things off with buffs, the wizard could control/debuff/buff as needed, the monk could leap in and trip a number of foes before darting out again, and the fighter would Sudden Charge a prone enemy and then run out again. He was using the Speed of the elves to keep distance on opponents and the Trips to suck away their actions. This meant that most of the creatures could only "Stand, Stride, Stride" or resort to another tactic.
At least in theory. He's a whiteroom kind of guy.
The first encounter definitely went the way he intended, with him steamrolling a group of redcaps and winter wolves. Things got a little trickier versus a handful of elite pixies, however, who harassed the group from afar with longbow attacks. It did force him to admit that going all in on a single melee weapon did mean that he needed a backup. The wizard, if I recall, cleaned them up nicely. There were a few more encounters, but the one that stood out to me was a pair of remorhaz that ambushed the group. After the creatures' Heat aura broke the fighter's pick, I felt pretty safe in saying that the "all-in" strategy wasn't going to pan out. He did have the Quick Repair come into play at that point, so I had to admit he was thorough.
He stands by this strategy, even though he has opened up to the idea of bringing the right tool for the right job. While his most recent character is a psychic, he did manage to pair up his great pick fighter with a weapon inventor who was using a reach+trip weapon innovation to great success in our Kingmaker game.

Sanityfaerie |

Flames Oracle and a Fire-focused Caster/Kineticist is a match made in heaven.
Kineticist with aura, flame order druid, and bomber alchemist are particularly notable for their ability to toss out chip damage in fire to set off the oracle's aura. Goblin with Burn It particularly notable for ability to crank up chip damage a bit on the one side and the triggered ongoing damage a bit on the other. You probably want to invest in fire resistance as well (...which goblin can do via heritage, and kineticist can apply via aura, and if you're dealing with an alchemist then consider the backblast mantle)
Sanityfaerie wrote:Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else.PFS characters, so you'll have to adapt to any kind of party. You must be able to handle a bit of everything (especially skills as skill challenges are extremely important in PFS) so your double Paladin example is exactly what I would not bring in a PFS party. I'd focus on characters able to complement each other before looking for any kind of combo.
For example:
Minotaur Barbarian + healer: A heavy hitter raising crazy attention and a healer, a very nice combat combination that can get into any party. Also, very different skill set covered.
Alchemist + 2-weapon martial: The Alchemist can really duplicate the damage output of a good 2-weapon handler. Also, once again, you contribute to very different areas and can fit in most parties. Only question raised: what will Alchemist look like after PC2.
Okay, it's entirely possible that the PFS GMs that I've dealt with have all just been really lenient (I haven't played outside my local area) but in my experience it hasn't really been a problem? Like, sure, you'd want to have the two paladins focus on different secondary stats and different skill loadouts, but the requirements just aren't that tight.
Regardless, the two-player combo side of things is kind of the point of the exercise here. "Take a healer and a DPR" is diluting it a bit far. If you can't accept the idea of focusing on two-player combos for PFS, then just imagine the same setup for an AP.
Though... I am interested to hear more about what you were saying about the synergy between alchemists and two-hander martials. I don't think I'd heard that one before, necessarily.

SuperBidi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Okay, it's entirely possible that the PFS GMs that I've dealt with have all just been really lenient (I haven't played outside my local area) but in my experience it hasn't really been a problem? Like, sure, you'd want to have the two paladins focus on different secondary stats and different skill loadouts, but the requirements just aren't that tight.
I GMed a game with Barbarian, Warpriest and Kineticist x 2. They failed 2 skill challenges out of 3, ending up with no real info about what's happening and the clear feeling of being the wrong party for the job. It was the first time I had a party who was really "failing an adventure", if anything like that can exist in PFS.
Regardless, the two-player combo side of things is kind of the point of the exercise here.
Well, ok. Then don't say it's for PFS :)
Though... I am interested to hear more about what you were saying about the synergy between alchemists and two-hander martials. I don't think I'd heard that one before, necessarily.
Two-weapon wielders:
- Use two poisons.- Can avoid the drawbacks of Weapon Siphon if they play with Double Slice.
- Add in an Energy Mutagen and you end up with a significant bunch of extra damage.
The main issue of the Alchemist is that its buffing abilities are extremely party dependent. Two-weapon wielders and ranged attackers can really get a lot from an Alchemist and as such allow it to shine despite being a subpar class.

Sanityfaerie |

It seems like getting the poison applied properly, and especially reapplied, would be a bit of a hassle, though. Is it not so? Or is the idea that you're seriously boosting the alpha strike and then you don't worry about it afterwards?
Weapon Siphon seems like its value falls off pretty quickly as you reach higher levels, but I guess that PFS lives in the lower levels anyway, so....

SuperBidi |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

It seems like getting the poison applied properly, and especially reapplied, would be a bit of a hassle, though. Is it not so? Or is the idea that you're seriously boosting the alpha strike and then you don't worry about it afterwards?
Yes, you never apply poison during combat, that's just a waste of actions. But 2 potential poison applications can be really nasty.
eapon Siphon seems like its value falls off pretty quickly as you reach higher levels
Not that much on a 2-weapon build. It doesn't cost anything for the first weapon as you'll never make any secondary attack with it. For the Agile weapon, it may be an issue if you don't use Double Slice, so you may avoid this one.
Overall, with all these buffs (Poison+Weapon Siphon+Energy Mutagen) you boost a Strength-based Double Slice Fighter damage by roughly 30%, so it's rather nice considering that it doesn't cost combat actions. On Dex-based builds, it's way higher as they don't have Strength to damage.

Sanityfaerie |

Not that much on a 2-weapon build. It doesn't cost anything for the first weapon as you'll never make any secondary attack with it. For the Agile weapon, it may be an issue if you don't use Double Slice, so you may avoid this one.
Oh, I'm not saying that it *costs* all that much, really... more that it doesn't seem like it's possible to make the thing spit out more than 1d4 damage per hit. That potentially means a fair bit at level 1, but maybe not so much at level 15.
If you are planning on holding on to Weapon Siphon for the long term, though, it might be worth looking into dual weapon warrior. Flensing Slice can help give you something to do with your third action that won't care about MAP, and Dual Onslaught is just useful.

Calliope5431 |
Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else. (Significant other? Younger sibling? Kid?) Regardless, that person is willing to let you have a lot of influence over their build, and you can make your own build, and you're specifically looking for a situation where the two of you have lots of fun synergy and support that you can provide one another, while still getting along with the rest of the party. So... what kind of interesting builds are there out there to work with?
It was commented that we should have more CharOp types talking about party op, and this is explicitly an attempt to get the ball rolling on that one a bit.
To get thigns started, I introduce the moderately unintuitive classic - two paladins. With two of you, you can provide a pretty solid steel wall to keep the enemy from getting past you, and if you stay close enough to one another, it doesn't matter who's getting swung at - the other one can punish. Having the lay on hands able to work both ways gives a nice bit of sustain, too.
Honestly, most of the parties that I and my friends build take this sort of coordination into account...
Two rogues (or multiclassed rogues) to bounce opportune backstabbers back and forth and cover literally every skill.
The two champions thing is good - though you can get most of the benefit from two fighters/thaumaturges/whatever multiclassed into champion.
Monk multiclassed bard and a normal bard. Because getting ALL the good bard auras while keeping up halfway decent damage is criminally good (monk has a spare action because of flurry).
At one point we had flurry ranger (with share edge), a two-weapon fighter, a sorcerer with haste (to let the ranger use impossible flurry every round and gave the fighter more attacks) and a cleric with cast down in one party. Flurry ranger + two-weapon fighter alone is very nice - but it's sickening with haste.

SuperBidi |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

Oh, I'm not saying that it *costs* all that much, really... more that it doesn't seem like it's possible to make the thing spit out more than 1d4 damage per hit. That potentially means a fair bit at level 1, but maybe not so much at level 15.
Energy Mutagen really starts at level 5 with Collar of the Shifting Spider and high level Poisons are much much much better. So overall it tends to be rather balanced between levels.

Ryangwy |
It comes in relatively late, at 9th level, but the best synergy my players have access to is the sniper gunslinger plus a trip fighter (though any biild capable of inflicting off guard consistently works) because Vital Shot does ridiculous, consistent damage, especially on a crit but frankly works fine without, so long as you always have an off guard enemy to target.

Squark |

Sanityfaerie wrote:Basic premise: You're creating a new character for PFS, specifically as part of a plan to share that experience with someone else.PFS characters, so you'll have to adapt to any kind of party. You must be able to handle a bit of everything (especially skills as skill challenges are extremely important in PFS) so your double Paladin example is exactly what I would not bring in a PFS party. I'd focus on characters able to complement each other before looking for any kind of combo.
I'm going to disagree here somewhat. When you're consciously building two characters, you can deliberately avoid redundancies compared to what would happen when two people don't coordinate. I wouldn't necessarily go with 2 paladins, but a strength paladin and a dexterity redeemer/liberator could provide a lot of the same synergy woth less redundancy.