Elemental Proofing Paste

Inkfist's page

Organized Play Member. 67 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.

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You know the feedback threads posted after every playtest? The ones where Paizo talk about internal testing, and external perception and how people play?

Well, I'd love to see that once or twice a year in regards to Pathfinder 2e as a whole.

Things like talking about how Warpriests are perceived vs internal playtests, or how they were expected to be 'selfish' casters using things like 'heroism' to keep up with other martials.

Or how Witches are seen as the weakest of the current casters, but that there is a slew of new lessons (I hope) on the horizon that should bring them into line with everyone else.

It could be paired with a 1-2 times a year errata update where they can explain their choices and reasonings.

I think it would be healthy for the game and the community as a whole.

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Unicore wrote:
Getting 5 "better than a cantrip blasts" per fight is probably a pretty close DPR over an adventuring day

The issue is less pure math on a blast vs blast ratio and one of choice, agency and cost.

For example say I have to pick between say a Druid and a Psychic.

The Druid can tailor their cantrips to hit every save with a couple left for utility, they get better hp, armour, shield block. They can have an animal companion and have enough spell slots to keep some for things like general healing and Utility. By level 4 they can have 3 focus points.

The Psychic gives all that up for having the option to (initially) tank their AC and cast up to 5 of their comparatively weaker focus powers.

Now compare the Psychic to what Bards get as a package and see if any bard would ever give up their class features, composition cantrips, and 1/3rd of all their spells for the chance to cast an amped 'daze', 'mage hand' or 'telekinetic projectile' an extra 2-3 times per combat?

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Hey, HEY! it also does 3 + 1 (for every 2 spell levels) damage for your focus point.

Surely that's worth 1-2 8th level spells at high level...right?

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Mark Seifter was talking about how you know class design has worked when something *is* balanced but looks 'broken and amazing' (paraphrasing here)

An obvious example would be class feats that allow a draconic barbarian to *become* a dragon.

The issue with the Psychic is that the 'broken' wow factor draw of the class needs to be in its amp cantrips. Because they are picked as a set you give up a *lot* of choice, power and utility for your conscious
mind selection.

...and as it stands a 1d8/spell level version "telekinetic projectile" that's incompatible with metamagic and requiring a spell attack roll doesn't seem like its worth 1-2 level 1 spell slots let alone an 8th or 9th level spells.

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Gisher wrote:
CRB, p. 302 wrote:
If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.

The wild order druid focus spell version of wildshape/animal form etc, gives a specific exception allowing you to use your regular to-hits with a +2 bonus if you use your own stats rather than that given by the spell.(page 401 of the CRB)

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graystone wrote:
Inkfist wrote:
quick draw
Quickdraw doesn't do anything for a seedpod so I'm unsure why you mentioned it.

Its a round one option. Hunt target, command companion, strike with seedpod at up to double the range increment without penalty.

Round 2 if the enemy has closed the gap. Strike with quick draw, Strike, command companion for move and strike (the lack of MAP and the companions access to precisions bonus damage makes this viable.

Quick draw enables a switch hitter play style at no action cost if you start every encounter mode with your hands empty.

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It's also viable for precision Rangers from level 2 onwards when quick draw becomes an option. With a bird companion that's an opener of 1d4+4+1d8+1d4 bleed and inflicting a 20% miss chance

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I was a bit miffed about utility spells taking a hit too, until I realised what Paizo did.

A lot of the big utility options have been moved to rituals. Is unseen servant nowhere near as good? Sure, but with a bit of downtime and an attempt or two you can make some animated objects that do the same job.

Moving utility to rituals also opens them up to all characters which means as more content comes out everyone is strengthened rather than just extending the Gulf between casters and martials that we can see in 1e.

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I think It's less users making people feeling unwelcome and more calling out some *really* bad faith arguments.

For example look at this one literally from this threads OP:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42ux7?Unlimited-Martial-Fireballs-How-the-Pend ulum

Where he claims that barbarians 3 action options outperform casters blast options and can do so all day vs a limited resource.

Which assumes that the barbarian in question:

Is already raging
Is wielding a reach weapon
Is a Giant Instinct Barbarian
Is Level 15+
Has taken the feats for Whirlwind Strike
Is positioned in the middle of a horde of enemies
Can Safely use 3 actions and not move when surrounded by enemies
Can consistently manage to meet all the above criteria several times a day.


The caster is using a fireball in a 7th level slot as opposed to one of the more powerful level appropriate spells

Someone pointing out the above argument isn't realistic and doesn't reflect actual play experience *isn't* saying that posters like OP are unwelcome, rather that the argument they are putting forth is flawed or misleading.

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I'm playing a warpriest so I sit between martial and pure caster for action usage, and anyone defaulting to just move+cast is hurting themselves and their party.

Sure there are times you need to move, but recalling knowledge,demoralizing groups of enemies, sustaining spells, 1 action focus powers, spells, and cantrips or even weapon attacks are all conditionally more useful.

At low levels blending crossbow strikes with electric arc (and reloading every second round) will likely out dpr many martial builds due to the half damage on a save effect.

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OrochiFuror wrote:

It's fools gold. Any martial that's spending those rounds on attacks spends the subsequent turns with the dying condition.

Agreed. On paper it seems like martial classes have a distinct edge, but trying to leverage 3 actions next to an enemy often means blowing your hero points in the next round of so.

Martial have some great 3 action sequences, but without magical assistance (taste, greater invisibility etc) they have very few practical opportunities to use them.

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The Halloween special.

A (Pumpkin) gourd headed leshy ranger with the farm hand background.

Take the precision edge and a bird companion for your first feat.

Now you are a pumping headed scythe-weilding scarecrow that attacks people with a 'dire-crow'

The damage is much better than you'd think, and the persistent bleed and miss chances you hand out are

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From what you said it looks like you ran a Strength based vanguard. Asides from running with a Shobhad for the reach 40 foot speed, strength and extra arms it looks really hard to make a Strength vanguard work at low levels. (Hell, I don't think you *can* get a returning spear, riot shield and anything more than the cheapest heavy armor at character creation, which negates the point of the shield as spending even half of its cost on better armor yields better permanent results.

A dex build looks to take care of any reflex issues, though I agree they are susceptible to will based effects.

Personally i'm OK with entropic strikes doing less damage compared to solar weapons, mainly due to hitting TAC vs KAC. I'd actually wouldn't mind seeing the math DPR wise of full attacking using your weapon for the primary strike and entropic strikes for the others using TAC to offset the penalties.

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Combat Monster wrote:
That flat check on the Armor of Fortification seems pretty rough.

As a flat check it still works out as 15/30% chance of critical negation (same as 1e) the big difference that with anything that's 10+ higher than your AC counting as a crit (and Frits doubling damage+higher level potancy of weapons) suggests that fortification may be stronger in 2e than it is currently.

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Alchemaic wrote:
Inkfist wrote:
Yeah ignoring feats, and abilities like rage sure make things look like trap classes. By that standard barbarians and Fighters are utterly useless too...
What's currently being left off of the list for the Shifter in that comparison then? Bearing in mind it should probably be posted in the math thread.

Wolverine aspect notably gives rage and rage powers. He's also missing the feat for the extra scaling attack.

Due to items like Bestial rags, a level 8 shifter should have three aspects to chose from and can pick the most beneficial minor aspect bonus.

If we are comparing DPR shouldn't we be comparing the higher damage options? Tiger is a combat form yes, but it exchanges the damage and survivability of the wolverine for pounce, grab and an extra 10 feet of movement.

Seeing as the "Kineticist does less DPR than a commoner with a bow" did the rounds for a solid six months after release, shouldn't we be more honest in our comparisons and builds?

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David knott 242 wrote:

Has anyone compared the Shifter to the Unchained Monk? That would probably be the most comparable previously existing class.

Significantly less damage than a Umonk 2 hand power attacking with a sansetsukon for those first few levels. Though your defences should be slightly higher. There is a bit more parity between fists vs claws with the shifter doing well if they could snag a race with a primary natural bite or gore attack.

At 4 Shifters get a nice boost with the size and stat bonuses from wildshape. Things like grab, trip, rage and super early access to pounce are all very nice toys. (actually Umonks with flying kick are the only full BAB class that get access to a pounce like ability anywhere near as soon, though they have wait several levels before its quite as strong)

Later on the UMonk tends to make more full bab attacks and has a stronger nova options and shenanigans like medusa's wrath. Shifters get options to hit harder and look to have ways of boosting their HP, defences and survivability more easily.

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greystone wrote:
Has there been a confirmation that the shifter gets Size bonuses?

Seeing as It is worded as shifter Wildshape counts as Beast shape two the following is in play

"Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus."

David knott 242 wrote:

The major problem with this item (Bestial rags) is that it competes with the Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes for the body slot.

Why buy a bodywrap of mighty strikes when for most forms an amulet of mighty fists is the better option? Seeing as you get scaling bonuses to natural armour it's not competing for your neck slot in terms of the big six.

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Sat down last night with herolab and worked out the numbers for the Shifter. Turns out once you factor in things like the major form abilities, feats and things like Bestial rags they are a lot tankier/stronger than predicted.

I took a look at the Dire bear, Dire Tiger and Dire Wolverine forms and the second they hit 4 they are pretty nasty. Things like rage, size bonuses and super early access to pounce make them rather potent.

Bestial Rags are a steal for the price and open up picking up a utility/movement aspect much more palatable. (8k gold for evasion/improved evasion? +5 minutes of minor aspects? yes please). This means you can have a combat form/ a flight form and a utility form by about levels 6/7.

Strength builds are more viable than I thought with Size bonuses alleviating a lot of the MAD concerns I had on my first read through.

Later I plan to see how a high dex build goes with both the published and errata versions of Shifters edge in play.

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There are options for grenade arrows to up the damage, but the cost makes them 'for a rainy day' option as opposed to an every attack one.

Crossbolters can also take them while doing scaling damage.

at the very least it looks like they have more options than the carbonedge shuriken at least.

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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Brandon Hodge wrote:
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
...the Occultist options aren't all terrible in their mechanical benefits, they're just laugh out loud bad in what you have to do to get and keep them. A fair universe would award you a couple of mythic tiers for pulling that stuff off.
The occultist archetypes have been pretty well received and the critique doesn't seem to match the mechanics. Are you sure you're talking about the right class?
Medium! Occultist archetypes were amazing.

Playing with Herolab and the Haunt collector Occultist is a massive buff to the class. (actually due to the wording it may be on the level of the primalist bloodrager) Trading out weak resonance powers for a buff to your prefered playstyle is amazing.

At low levels an unbuffed transmutation/champion occultist hits like a barbarian, and the swift action spirit bonus shores up the biggest weakness of the melee occultist (you needed knowledge of whats coming up to prepare yourself adequately, now you can be effective without needing 2-3 rounds of prep)

For blaster occultists an archmage spirit is like free damage on all your spells, that stacks with the free damage evocation gives you. (did you really need that conjuration resonance power? free damage, a new power and still being able to keep your standard action 10 round summons sounds like an amazing deal. )

Being able to punch haunts is just icing on the cake.

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graystone wrote:
Inkfist wrote:

If anyone is on the fence about mystic bolt at higher levels (when all those resistances become an issue), there is a nice interaction between the 'Arcane striker' and 'returning weapon' vigilante talents.

For a two feat investment ('quick draw' and 'clustered shots') whenever something with particularly high resistances turns up just grab a bunch of starknives. The two talents, and a pair of Deliquescent Gloves turns a single +4 'agile' starknife into whats effectively six or seven +4 'Agile' 'Holy' 'Corrosive''returning' +3 extra damage starknives.

returning: "It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn" That means a single starknife can make a single attack. No "effectively six or seven +4 'Agile' 'Holy' 'Corrosive''returning' +3 extra damage starknives"

Look at the 14th level section of returning weapon. It allows you to copy the magical properties of the first weapon to any mundane copies you can throw that round. at level 14 arcane striker is adding +3 to damage and a special elemental ability (such as shocking, Deliquescent gloves adds the 'corrosive' property, and returning weapon adds the returning property. With the 'Quick Draw' feat I can pull out more star knives as a free action. Returning weapon copies across all the enhancements to every subsequent weapon. This lets you get the full bonus on all thrown weapons for your full attack.

at 16 you upgrade the enhancement 'Arcane striker' gives (e.g. Holy)