Hawk Kriegsman's page

roflstomps

Great word. LOL!

Consider it pinched.

Is that really a viable expectation? It's a very brief description of how the item works. Can you reasonably expect it to go into such a corner case as a disguised individual? It doesn't say anything about a polymorphed individual either. Is this supposed to spot shapeshifters as well?

At my table yes it is. Because of the brief description on how it works it leaves me the GM to fill in the details on how I believe it works in my table.

It clearly states it is a special skill check. Not a normal one. So I treat it as special.

For polymorphed creatures I have ruled at my table that you take on the scientific characteristics of the form that they have been changed into.

So human polymorphed into a horse while show up on the microlab as a horse.

As a rule of thumb at my table shapeshifters (depending on the description of how they shape change) would ID as the form they are currently in with every 5 exceeding reveal something odd or off about the creature.

Rules in this game are nested. The biolab refers you to the creature ID rules, and tells you to use those as if you had rolled a 20 to ID the creature.

Yes rules are nested and interact with each other. I am well aware.

You can't just make an argument in one direction from one piece of data.

I actually was not making an argument. I was stating how I rule at at my table. I am not telling anyone that does it differently than I do the are wrong nor am I stating that my way is the only way it should be done.

Just stating how I rule it. No more no less.

But ANYONE can use biological knowledge to identify a creature. The only difference is they need to roll as opposed to just plopping the die down with the 20 up. By your argument a human can't disguise themselves as anything else, no matter how high their score or what equipment they use (including physically changing their shape), because half of john Q public can get a 10 on a life science check without any training at all.

Yes anyone can, but only the biohacker with a microlab can ID disguised creatures.

Everyone else has to get through the disguise first and then can attempt to ID a creature.

That's how I run it at my table.

I understand that you don't like it and disagree.

I am not trying to change your mind and you are not going to change mine.

I have house ruled that the undead immunity to mind-affecting effects only applies if the undead has an INT of - (no score). Anything with an INT score indicates to me it has a mind and is subject to mind-affecting effects.

Quote:

How are the always attacking flat footed AC after level 7?

Being able to Take 10 on their trick attack skill check basically means they will always succeed against something that they don't need to be desperately fleeing from.

Well hell, I missed that little piece about the target being flat-footed to your attack.

Might explain a bit of the operatives attack issues at my table.

They should be hitting 10% more of the time.

Thanks for that.

In practice, Operatives being the skill characters means they dominate every minute of the game outside of combat. It's unsustainable. No one class is THE combat class, and Operative isn't far enough behind in combat to justify being the undisputed king of the rest of the game. In fact, they're stronger in combat than all casters, and freqently top out on damage contributions in combat simply because of how easy it is for them to get into the optimally effective position.

In my experience that is just not the case.

They have 16 class skills but it is unlikely that they get 16 skill points per level. Yes you can get there if you make an int based operative, but then you are lacking elsewhere ability wise.

Unless you spend feats to add class skills, they should not be dominating Diplomacy, Life Science, Mysticism, or Physical Science.

They do not trump the expertise die of the envoy in the envoy's selected skills.

They usually don't trump intelligence based skills compared to a technomancer (who will have his INT maxed out) or the wisdom based skills of a mystic (who will have his WIS maxed out).

Looking at the PCs of my 10th level group the Technomancer beats the operative out in every single INT skill and the Mystic beats out the operative in every single WIS skill.

The soldier is a superior combatant to the operative.

Yes it is true that at 7th level the operative almost always is in position to make a trick attack they are hitting about 25% to 30% less of the time than a solider (assuming same Dex).

I am not so sure that the operative is superior to a spell caster in combat due to the number of different things a caster can do to impede/cripple the enemy without actually causing damage.

For the heroic PC I would give them an automatic critical with no Ref save for half (2x damage and a draw from the critical hit deck.). No damage to anyone else.

If a heroic NPC jumps on the grenade they die.

To all the folks that have complained that they just can't report various crimes, plots and the like to the authorities to deal with, I ask you this.

Did you or your players do this in PF1 or did they take the role of heroes?

In Rise of the Runelords did they report back to Sandpoint's sheriff and then call it a day or did they act like heroes?

In Curse of the Crimson Throne when they start uncovering oddities and plots did they report them to the Temple of Abadar and head off to a nearby tavern or did they act like heroes?

In Second Darkness when asked to take the form of Drow and go into the Darklands under cover, did they thanks but no thanks your on your own or did they act like heroes?

And so on and so on and so on.

I don't ever recall seeing post complaining that their players could not report sinister doings and not be able to walk away.

The whole point of adventures if the players to be the stars of the show, not to say well the authorities should handle this.

You know who goes and asks the authorities to solve problems?

NPCs

If you want others to do the heavy lifting for you I would suggest you play "Computers and Cubicles". No risk, no reward, no fame, no satisfaction.

I GM and players play to get away from C&C not to embrace it in our free time.

Here are some of the house rules I have at my table:

Weapon specialization is equal to you character level for all weapons.

Grenades now benefit from weapon specialization.

Grenades prices are for a box of 6.

No experience points. Level up is done when appropriate and in character downtime. No leveling halfway through a complex or the like.

Equipment upgrades. Hand waved and abstractly played. Trade/ Sell your found loot and get the level appropriate gear you want up to WBL amount. No hobo adventurers in my game with hodgepodge scrounged gear (unless the player wants to).

Critical hits go right to wounds. Critical hits should be critical, not merely annoying.

Real critical hit effects, in conjunction with the critical hit deck.

Lose limbs, have internal bleeding, insta-death is possible. Additionally a critically wounded PC / NPC must make a fort save (DC depending on severity) or be stunned until save made (roll per round). No more have a limb blown off and acting immediately. In my experience wounded people stare in horror at their bloody stump or try stuffing the insides back in all while screaming/crying. A good example is "Saving Private Ryan" by in large the reactions of the wounded is accurate.

Critical fumbles, in conjunction with the critical fumble deck are critical. Ruined weapons, bad wounds, broken equipment, critical hits to your allies all possible. The bigger the whiff, the more dire the consequences.

NPCs in the world have appropriate backgrounds and trappings for their station in life and are not limited to leveled equipment lists. If it is appropriate for them to have an item based on background.

The authorities of a galaxy, sector, system, planet, metropolis, city, village, hamlet, colony, outpost do give a $hit about what happens in their environs and will act appropriately to defend themselves or enforce their laws. No PCs running amuck without consequences. My players know this and are perfectly fine with it. They also know, that no matter what level / how bad a$$ they are, there is always someone bigger and badder out there.

Lastly, I never let the rules get in the way of the story. I and my players are subject to countless rules and regulations in our every day lives. We game to get away from this. The story reigns supreme.

There are probably more that I use, but this is what I have for now.

Wait, what?

It's just the opposite for us. The trick attack is an automatic success. But the operative doesn't have full BAB and misses a lot. How is your operative failing their trick attack roll?

The DC is 20+CR, so for the CR11 baddie would be 31.

By that level, the operative in our test party had 10 ranks in the skill, plus 3 for it being a class skill, 7 points of stat, 4 points (if I recall correctly) of operative bonus, 4 points from a class feature, and 2 points from race (ysoki). +30 to roll a 31.

Even if you dropped the race bonus and lowered the stat bonus to +6, it's still +27 to hit a 31. *Much* better than the operative's chance to hit, in our hands.

Or one could take the NPC operatives in Pact Worlds, specifically the Mercenary Commando (p. 157). A pair of these were an encounter in one of the modules we used for playtest. They have Stealth +25, or +29 when using trick attack, per their description. They succeed automatically against PCs of their level (DC30).

I will look at the numbers in the rest of the post when I have access to my player's character sheets. But this jumped out at me. We've been wondering if we're playing it wrong as the roll appears trivial, but we checked the rules carefully and can't see a mistake. Trick attack was hard at very low levels but had been automatic success for a while by 10th.

Sad but true. The operative has the detective specialization.

10 ranks sense motive, +1 Wis, +3 class skill, +3 operative's edge for a total of 17.

Now the detective specialization gives a +4 to sense motive trick attacks.

This would be a +21.

Now the part being missing at my table, as BNW pointed out is the ability to take 10 on a trick attack with a skill that you have the Skill Focus feat with.

The player always rolls.

It looks like I need to point out to the player that they should try taking 10 with their sense motive trick attack.

I would like to politely ask that the response to "This doesn't work for me" not be chorus after chorus of "Go play something else, then." If you are going to have a thread on "What is your experience with Starfinder?" it is quite legitimate for people to mention negatives as well as positives. Maybe those who are upset should start a thread "What are your positive experiences with Starfinder"?

If it was a case of someone saying this doesn't work for me then fine.

But it if it is a case of always bashing Starfinder without pointing out positives and then continuously mentioning another game that is the greatest game ever then no I am going to ask them to go away and play what in their mind is the far superior game.

Also it is not upset at all, more nauseated with the same drivel over and over with only dismissive comments to ideas and solutions, while never offering anything useful to make the game better.

You do understand that there is a difference between:

I think mechanic Y of Starfinder is suboptimal here is a way to make it better......

and:

Starfinder stinks in most aspects of its design, not like Computers and Cubicles, which gets it right and is superior.

With very little effort on the GMs part and some reading of the source materials you do get a feel for a city / nation state. You then can come up with what YOU as the GM want in societal detail. I do not need Paizo to do it for me.

In my SoS game.

When the PCs ship came into Verces they were greeted by 2 patrol craft. They had to ID themselves and submit to a scan of their ship.

When they landed at Cuvacara they were greeted by 2 custom's officers who scanned their ID's and did a physical walk through of their ship.

*************SPOILER TIME*******************************************

At Eclipse HQ:

I put Eclipse HQ in the corporate section of the city where it is stated that the are armed corporate mercenaries running around.

Yes I modified the front door to be locked and sign posted so some random dope doesn't get fried looking for a bathroom.

My PCs rented a cargo van and then went to a hardware store and bought a slew of janitorial supplies. The pretended to be the cleaning crew

They the disabled the lock and trap and entered.

They took care of business. At the security station they turned on the fire suppression system, hit the fire alarms and called the police stating the building was on fire and there was gun shots fired please send help.

The police and fire departments responded. The PCs were long gone.

The bomb (and there is only one bombing in SoS despite what is posted by some).

It went off. Guess what? The hotel manager called the police and 2 detectives arrived within the hour and questioned the PCs.

The ambush outside the Blue Room.

It was over in 8 rounds or 48 seconds. The police were called by those in the area and they arrived in under 5 minutes. The PCs were long gone.

The ambush in the Shade (which is described as buildings riddled with bullet holes). NO ONE CARED

The incident at the Lizard Lounge. Went as described with the PCs winning. The same 2 detective from earlier arrived (and were none to happy). At this point they warned the PCs (and stated to them that they suspected they were involved in other incidents in the day) that one more visit from them and they would be escorted to the spaceport, the craft escorted out of atmosphere and then escorted again until the Warped out of the system (yes I use warp not drift and Verces is a system not a single planet and the Pact Worlds are more akin to a cluster sized area than a single system)

And finally when the PCs head to the spaceport the final ambush is waiting for them inside.

The battle sees the drow all killed but not the sniper. The two detectives that had visited the PCs earlier had actually been assigned to follow them at this point were waiting at the PCs ship with a warrant of expulsion in hand.

The loaded the PCs onto their ship and when the took off a wing of fighters from the Vinmal Defense Force where there to escort them to near space where a Verces Systems Defense heavy cruiser was waiting for them.

When the PCs ship was near the pass off point they cut the engines and activated cloaking. The plummeted back towards the surface before engage their engines and flying nape of the earth to Darkside.

So as we look forward to tonight's session.

The PCs are wanted criminals in the Verces System. I look forward to see what they come up with to escape the planet and the system without being blasted out of the sky or space.

*************************END SPOILERS************************************

Starfinder can be what ever you want it to be. The game is only limited by you imagination and willingness to put some effort in.

It will never be perfect. No game is.

And to those who keep mentioning a different game over and over and over and over and over and over....................................................................... ..............................................and over agian.

Go play that flipping game.

As others have said, you are the GM and you set the parameters.

I absolutely forbid rules debate at the table. I make my best judgement call and we move forward. If I was wrong and it wound hurting the group I as the GM have unlimited ways in which to rectify the situation all while staying within the story.

A few times over the years I have players that turned into Estes rockets.

So I launched them.

Even then, damage dice slip and small arms with full spec are still inferior to longarms. You'd probably have to reduce the full attack penalty for it to be worth it.

Its not that great of a spread (yes I am sure you can find jarring examples if you look hard enough).

As I look at it the most simple fix to narrow the damage difference would be to make weapon specialization equal to character level for all weapons that you are proficient with.

The specialness is in the PC not the weapon.

Combat Rifle (L10) 3d8 +10 = 23.5 on average

Elite Semi Auto Pistol (L10) = 3d6 +10 = 20.5 on average

Dueling Sword (Corpse Fleet) Officer (L10) 3d4 +10 = 17.5 on average

Mindspike, Microserrated (L10) = 3d8 +10 = 23.5 on average.

These are reasonably close enough that a PC can use the weapon they want without being left behind.

Narative sense would also depend on how long a starship combat round is. If its minutes of dodging weaving and firing Running from one station to another seems doable. if its 6 seconds.. not so much.

I often cover science and engineering in starship combats. I'll descibe my characters sitting in a rolling office chair on a phone book rolling left and right with the ship to go to the two different stations

"Bank left, i need to go repair the shields!"

I have always taken starship combat to be taking place at a minimum of 1 minute per ship comabt round with gunners actually taking multiple shots (with the single roll being the cumulative effect of their fire for the turn) and pilots making multiple within each hex (again with the one piloting check be representative of what the did).

Never thought it was six seconds.

And lol on the rolling chair.

No, in the adventure the police only comes when specifically called by an NPC. But open battles, including the use of grenades, on a busy street alone does not attract police attention. And even if the PCs are out on bail this does not mean anything. There are no restrictions placed on them, they still have all their weapons and can fight again on the streets hours later and even can freely access their starship and simply leave with no fuss at all.

As the adventure is written yes, you are 100% correct.

As I run the adventure you are 100% wrong.

In my game the PCs will not be armed to the teeth without being very clever and sneaky.

If the PCs get too out of hand, then the authorities will respond.

As for just hopping on their spaceship and leaving.

When the PCs entered Verces space, Verces Systems Defense fighters approached the ship, they had to identify themselves and were subject to a security scan.

When they landed in Cuvacara their ship was boarded, their manifest was examined and they had to show valid ID.

Their ship is on a landing pad at the spaceport. That ship is secured on the landing pad (similar to how airliners are secured on a runway) and the landing pad is secured by spaceport security.

So no, the PCs cannot just hop in their ship and leave if they have caused a bunch of trouble.

They can and will be arrested if the situation warrants it.

And no none of that is in the published adventure, but it is how I have run adventures for better part of 40 years.

I let the published adventure do the heavy lifting by proving the setting, plot and some details.

I then add details and background to fit my campaign, my liking and my players liking.

For me it takes very little time or effort and I enjoy it.

@Iaxl

Wow just wow. First thanks for insulting my post by calling it nonsense.

It really shows who you are. You hate Starfinder we all get it.

I really do not understand why you are here.

I was not defending the scenario. I was pointing out how you can easily make sense of it.

********************************************************************

Spoiler Alert

********************************************************************

There is no police investigation against the company, the adventure specifically says they won't interfer, and the trap is fixed. And even if it would be as you describe the police still does not leave deadly traps in public areas.

Actually it does not say that. You can go file file a police report, get questioned and they say the will look into it when resources are available.

I did not say the police trapped the door. All I said was Eclipse Innovations was doing an internal investigation in cooperation with the police.

Here's an alert for you: Eclipse is lying!!!

Shooting up a office building, abandoned (not really though) or not attracts attention, yet no such things happen in the adventure. There is also no investigation for breaking and entering.

Did you read the setting for Cuvacara at all?

It is somewhat akin to a bright and shiny Gotham city.

Well armed corporate mercenaries are the norm in Cuvacara and the authorities don't get involved with them most of the time.

Graft and corruption are everywhere in this city.

If a small time operator like Scuttle has the police well greased, can you fathom how large corporations like Eclipse Innovations have the police in their pocket?

Here is how the average residence views this in my opinion.

Person 1: "I hear gunfire at Eclipse Innovations."

Person 2: "Probably mercenaries from Solar Flare Software trying to steal the code for The Penumbra Protocol."

Person 1: Do you have any friends or relatives that might being involved?

Person 2: Nope. Hey you want to go to Lee Ho Fooks to get some beef chow mein?

Person 1: Yep lets turn left here.

Just another day in Cuvacara.

Of course there is no investigation for breaking and entering at Eclipse Innovations. They don't want the police there.

If the PCs aren't clever here there will be witnesses seeing them break and enter and most likely someone will call the police who arrive in 4d4 minutes.

The enemies have their full gear so the adventure assumes that the PCs have their full gear too even while shopping for items.

Not in my game they don't. They will be close to full, but things like assault rifles and sniper rifles will not be openly carried. Never has in my games and never will be.

My players like this fact and have no problem using clever solutions to overcome a few missing pieces of gear.

Despite being involved in multiple shootings, at least one on a busy open street while shopping and possibly a bombing in the "generally safe city" the OCs are never detained (time critical adventure) or questioned (adventure tells you the police, described as vigilant against violent crime, is desinterested)

You clearly did not read the adventure.

1st ambush: mercenaries disguised as police, witness cleared from scene.

2nd ambush: ambush in The Shade section of city, where the buildings are described as having bullet holes and crime is rampant.

Bolded part: really??!! Reread page 23. Arrested, detained overnight, 2,000 credit fine per PC sure sounds like the police WILL get involved.

Evade police?? Now ever encounter in Cuvacara has a 30% chance of having 2 police officers involved.

If the PCs are dumb enough to attack the police then the full might of Cuvacara's police force WILL come down on them.

3rd Ambush: yep in a crowded area for sure. Really good chance of harming innocent NPCs.

With precedent set on page 23 that the police WILL get involved, as this takes place with lots of innocent NPCs around.

Oh sure, I can alter large parts of the adventure to make it sensible, but that it is written the way it is shows Paizo's mindset and their complete disregard for how modern societies work and instead stick to heroic fantasy scenarios with the PCs being the only competent people and having all freedoms and no limits.

LOL! I am not altering large parts of the adventure.

Paizo is not disregarding how modern societies work at all.

You are ignoring Verthani society as described in the Cuvacara article.

Keep in mind the society is Verthani not human. The way Cuvacara is described they love their city, they are proud of the city warts and all.

But it is also not a universal problem. See Shadowrun for example where this is integral to the system.

The thing this, the game has to be build with this in mind. Sadly Starfinder has not. Despite the science fiction setting Paizo paid no heed to futuristic or even modern concepts and technology and instead just copied over fantasy assumptions with the PCs being the heroes and that there is no one else to rival them in power.

This is not true for my game. I use futuristic and other sci fi concepts. The PCs are not the most powerful thing in my universe.

At times they are the big fish in a small pond, but I don't hesitate to show them that that they are plankton in the vast ocean when needed.

This leads to the PCs walking around armed all the time, the adventures encourage it after all, and that there is no authority to stop the PCs and that the classes are very unbalanced when you introduce concepts like weapon restrictions as they were build under the assumption that PCs always have their full arsenal.

The PCs only walk around fully armed all the time is because YOU allow it and don't create scenarios and situations that call for them being unarmed.

If the is no authority to stop them then it is because YOU did not put the authority there.

There are hundreds (thousands?) of planets out there with thousands (tens of thousands) of nation states and aliens out there. If you think you are going to get rules to cover every societal laws, crimes and punishments you will have a long wait.

It is YOUR job time come with a system of actions and consequences.

The Penumbra Protocol is a very good example of how badly Starfinder handles this.

You could not be more wrong here.

Did you read the Pact Worlds book about Verces?
Did you read the article about Cuvacara in The Penumbra Protocol?
And finally did you read the adventure in The Penumbra Protocol?

Based on comments you have made many, many, many................many times about this I am not convinced you read it or understand it

**************************************************************************

SPOLIER ALERT

**************************************************************************

Eclipse Innovations Building exterior door trap.

You do realize the the exterior door is locked right?

You do realize that the building is mostly abandoned correct?

You do realize that all that is inside the building are killer robots, zombies and stupefied workers right?

This building is not meant to be entered at any point in time by the general public.

Easy GM fix: Sign on door. "This building is closed pursuant to an Eclipse Innovations internal investigation in cooperation with The Cuvacara Police Department. No Trespassing. Active video monitor and anti-intrusion devices are active. Media inquiries should be directed to 867-5309. Thank You."

So no random NPC getting fried because they opened the door seeing if they could use the restroom.

The package bomb.

If it goes off. They manager of wherever they are stay phones the police. Cuvacara detectives arrive in 1d3 hours to question them.

If it doesn't go off the PCs have a bomb to use later.

The first ambush.

They are disguised as Cuvacara police. The ambush takes place normally.

Fact: the average police response time in the US to an active shooter situation is 4 to 11 minutes.

Easy GM fix: the actual Cuvacara police arrive in 4d4 minutes. If they PCs are still there they have some explaining to do.

Keep in mind in the Cuvacara article it does say that well armed corporate mercenaries are common. Authorities generally look the other way as long as innocents are not harmed.

The second ambush.

It takes place in The Shade where the buildings are described to have bullet holes in them.

Also the police seldom if ever patrol here.

Easy GM fix: Cuvacara police "Shade Pacification" convoy comes through The Shade. Residents of The Shade scramble indoors, while those who don't get hit by water cannon fire, rubber bullets and tear gas.

*************************************************************************

END SPOILERS

**************************************************************************

You either want to work with what Starfinder gives you or you don't.

I don't think you like Starfinder. I actually don't know why you come here to continually bash it.

One final question.

Did you hate Star Wars when Han shot Greedo on Tatooine and no police showed up to question him?

Of course not!

I was amused by a scene in a recently published AP where a gang shakes you down for protection money after you dock in the seedy portion of a corporate owned and operated space station. There are apparently zero consequences to just gunning them down unless the GM wants to make them up.

Which is...potentially plausible in this particular area of this particular station, maybe, but what's to stop the same security risk (i.e. PCs) from setting up bombs to blow up that underpoliced arm of the station rather than just gunning down some gangers?

This problem is not unique to Starfinder. I have played everthing from original DnD to Top Secret, To Deadlands, To Kingdoms of Kalamar to PF1 to Starfinder now.

It has been my experience that most systems do not do much in the way of crime and punishment. Even less is covered in an adventure due to page count issues. Actually Ptlous was good at an incredibly detailed background with crime and punishment. It was also 806 pages and $100.

It is the GM's job to know the setting with the given printed materials and them make judgements and them apply it to his game.

In my game if the PCs were to gun down the thugs, then they would most likely be in trouble with the authorities.

I feel that if you read the background books like the Pact Worlds and items like the article on Cuvacara in The Penumbra Protocol it gives you enough of a feel that it is relatively easy to determine what the local authorities would do when the PCs take certain actions.

In my opinion it is the GMs job to keep the players in line, not the authors of Starfinder

I'm a little confused by what te first part thete meant. Strictly by which definition? The dictionary definition or the Starfinder rules definition?

Because by CRB page 242, I think the answer is "yes" by even the strictest reading.

Quote:

Allies and Enemies

Sometimes an ability targets or requires an enemy or an ally, such as the envoy’s watch out improvisation. You count as your own ally unless an ability says otherwise. The GM has the final say on whether someone is an enemy or ally; you can’t declare one of your fellow party members to be an enemy or an enemy to be an ally just to trigger a special ability.

I was going by dictionary definition.

I completely missed (or forgot) the part about you are your own ally.

Sorry about that.

The smoke grenade as written in the rules is really more of a tear gas grenade.

Military grade smoke grenades really don't hamper your breathing (well, ok if you are standing right next to it and huffing the smoke).

The absolutely block line of sight when looking into it or through.

So in my game all smoke grenades do is block LOS and grant total concealment.

Smoke grenades per RAW are called now called tear gas grenades and function as written.

@Senko

You are ready way too much into that side bar on page 35 in my opinion.

There is nothing to indicate that an AI gets free skills, free android body, class levels etc.

If you build it as a 15th level NPC then it is capped at 5 skills (3 Master & 2 Good) assuming an expert array.

All I read there is that it becomes an NPC under the GMs control, nothing else changes.

It is the same exact build as it was as VI. All that changes is the personality.

Its your game, so have at it.

We will have to agree to disagree here.

It should be pointed out the OP's original formula is incorrect.

Scanning another ship is 5 + (1.5 x enemy tier) + defenses.

The DC would be 19 (5 +9 +5)not 21.

Neat! How'd you go about figuring the various distances?

I took the Mass Effect Andromeda map online and made a decision on what 2 systems where 10 light years apart. This became the base measurement.

I am using distances had to be relative to each other and not absolute.

I wanted to give the feel of warping through space and it taking some time without having travel take years.

Then it was measuring the distances between all the systems to create at table of system A is x light years from system B.

I have an excel spread sheet that someone made for Star Wars RPG that I found online.

I converted the calculations to suit my needs.

I suspect someone more versed in Excel could really make this work even better.

So when my players travel between two points we enter the distance, the warp rating of the ship, the total pilot skill and the total engineer skill. The pilot and engineer both roll a D20 and it is entered.

So for example: A warp 3 vessel travelling 20 light years with the pilot and engineer both having a +15 in their respective skill and each rolling a 10.

It will take the vessel 6 days, 2 hours and 47 minutes to complete its trip.

If the vessel had a warp 4 engine instead of 3 then the travel time would be 4 days, 16 hours and 8 minutes

There is a change per day of a random encounter, which can alter the time.

My players love it. Gives a nice sense of travel.

I think that's the point. It doesn't say anything about making perception checks or penetrating disguises, so inserting that in yourself and insisting that's the rules feels kind of weird and overbearing.

It is neither weird or overbearing.

There are lots of rules in Starfinder that have giant descriptive gaps in them. This is further complicated by sourcebooks that have rules that are also lacking descriptive text. So as the GM for my group it is my responsibility to determine how to rule on something that is reasonable and thematic to my players and our campaign.

Using the microlab to identify creatures and using perception to see through a disguise are two completely unrelated checks using completely unrelated skills.

Using perception to see through a disguise does not allow you to identify a creature.

Let's take a look, bolding mine.

This check is opposed by a Disguise check attempted by the disguised creature. If you succeed, you realize the creature is disguised and not who it seems, but not necessarily who or what the disguised creature is beneath that disguise.

So all the perception check does is tell you the creature is disguised nothing more and nothing less.

It is another check (which is not a perception check) to identify the creature.

We look at the microlab's ability to identify creatures as a purely scientific one. Scan the creature to get its biosignature details and then make the appropriate science check to determine what it is. At my table a disguise has no bearing on it.

By the same token the microlab will not tell you if the creature is disguised.

It makes perfect sense to me, to my players and that's how we do it at my table.

If that is their general response to "This target has something suspicious about it", your players have some serious issues. Best solution: give them some adventures where killing random people is a bad idea and makes things harder for them. "Congratulations, you successfully killed an agent of the local crimelord! His actions in the adventure were only tangentially related to anything you cared about, but now the crimelord very specifically is interested in ruining the day of the people who up and shot one of his operatives!" Or so on.

Better yet an undercover agent of local law enforcement or the government.

You're free to run it that way at your tables but that basically turns monster ID into an automatic disguise breaker that completely bypasses any modifier or ability the disguised creature has, which definitely doesn't seem like a reasonable and balanced use of identify.

It only is a disguise breaker if a creature is attempting to disguise itself as another creature type.

If it is a creature trying to look like a different creature of the same creature type the microlab is useless.

I don't see this as a game breaker at all.

As I see it a 20 CR disguise kit doesn't get you very far is a universe of highly advanced scanning and detection devices.

The raw also says the disguise is opposed by a perception check.

Does the microlab have to make a perception check to identify a creature?

No it does not.

It scans the creature and the biohacker uses the science skill to interpret the scan.

It is not attempting to see through the disguise.

After reading the microlab again, I am absolutely going to allow it.

Lets look at what the microlab says.

As long as you have your custom microlab, as a move action you can target a creature within your line of sight and within the microlab’s range (60 feet at 1st level) and attempt a special skill check to identify it. If the creature is living, this is a Life Science check. If it is unliving, it’s a Physical Science check. The DC of this check is determined by the creature’s rarity, as presented on the Creature Rarity table on page 133 of the Core Rulebook. You can attempt this check untrained regardless of the DC, and you always treat your die roll result as a 20.

So it states you can target a creature. There are no listed exclusions or conditions to this check other than range.

So a dragon disguised as an orc is still a dragon.

A ysoki disguised as a human is still a ysoki.

The creature did not change.

Disguise is opposed by perception as per the perception and disguise rules. Disguise is not opposed by a microlab's ability.

RAW the microlab has no interaction with the disguise rule. This function is purely to identify a creature using science.

Until a FAQ says other wise I am going to have it function as written.

I would allow the microlab to assist in a few limited circumstances.

It would not work if a human was disguised as another human. Microlab would confirm human.

I would allow it to assist say if a human made a quick disguise of pointy ears, solid color contacts and a blonde wig and claimed to be Legolas the elf. So while the disguise check may beat the biohacker's
perception check I have no problem saying to the biohacker "Yes that is Legolas the elf, however the readings on your microlab indicate something is off."

If the human put on a ysoki costume and said Hi I am Bob the rat. Even though the biohacker fails the perception check to pierce this poor disguise (biohacker needs to invest in some perception ranks) the microlab would indicate that in fact that is a human standing before him.

Now if the human is some sort of deep infiltrator who has been given a disguise in a lab with implants and what not then I would say the microlab would be of little use as the disguise would include things to foil a scanner / microlab.

If disguise self or similar magic is used then that nullifies the microlab altogether.

Have not run across this yet, but it is how I think I would rule it in my games.

There's no need to get into internal logic, its not going to fetch you an answer you like or that makes much sense.

Agreed. Ship combat is so abstracted that is very difficult to explain what is going on in any detail or with any sense.

But my players ask questions so I have to provide answers as best I can.

Like this gem from my players.

"Why does the enemy ship get an armor bonus while it has shields up? The weapons are hitting the shields not the armor. The enemy ship should not get an armor bonus until it is attacked in a facing that has no shields."

Make sense to me and I had no good answer for then other than that how the rules are written.

I then gave them each a copy of the Traveler D20 ship combat rules.

I get far less questions now. LOL!

But I will say, I'd rather have a better ability to eat damage than a 40% chance to shoot down a missile. Its worse if the PD has to be manned, now I'm losing out on the damage from a gunner to have a bad chance at not being hit by a tracking weapon.

You don't lose out on the gunner taking an offensive shot. A point defense weapon gets to make one free gunnery check per round to eliminate an incoming tracking weapon attack.

A weapon with this special property is always short range and can’t be fired against targets that are outside the first range increment. If a tracking weapon would hit a ship in an arc that contains a weapon with the point special property, the gunner of the targeted starship can attempt an immediate gunnery check with the point weapon against the incoming tracking projectile using the bonus listed in parentheses in the weapon’s Special entry (instead of her usual bonus to gunnery checks). The DC for this gunnery check is equal to 10 + the tracking weapon’s speed. If the attack hits, the tracking weapon is destroyed before it can damage the ship. A point weapon can be used to attempt only one such free gunnery check each round, but this usage potentially allows a point weapon to be fired twice in a single round.

How I rule it is to use the PD weapon offensively it must be manned like any other weapon. To use it defensively any gunner on the ship can activate it provided he has not activated another PD weapon in the current round.

My players have recently discovered how a PD weapon can foil tracking weapons. They hit the enemy ship 5 times with a light plasma torpedo.

The enemy ship had a laser net in a turret. I rolled 5 straight 14+ and blocked all the attacks. The player's ship had 4 critical hits on it before the destroyed the enemy ship.

Upon repair and refit they added a laser net in a turret.

We shall see if it works as well for them.

For its relatively low cost and free use I think it is a pretty good item.

CR = APL was not a challenging encounter in Pathfinder 1E either, unless your party was particularly new or intentionally made weak characters.

Well crap, there it is in 1E rules. CR = APL = average. No wonder the players have kicked my behind for the last 11 years.

I have been carrying this over from 3.5. Oh the horror and embarrassment.

Well its payback time.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

1) Yes

2) No. Wearing or holding implies an item in your possession that you're picking up, which unless you're holding a tiny car for a striefella or something doesn't sound feasible.

I think I agree with this. My original knee-jerk reaction was that vehicles aren't items, but they are right there in the equipment section of the CRB. Making a vehicle survive small arms fire for 1 round as a move action sounds like a decent, but not broken thing to do.

Now that you put it this way. I rescind my knee-jerk reaction and agree that it should be allowed.

I also would not allow it.

Here is the rule.

Aid Another
The GM might rule that you can help someone succeed at a skill
check by performing the same action and attempting a skill
check as part of a cooperative effort. To do so, you must attempt
your skill check before the creature you want to help, and if
you succeed at a DC 10 check, that creature gains a +2 bonus
to his check, as long as he attempts the check before the end
of his next turn. At the GM’s discretion, only a limited number
of creatures might be able to aid another. You cannot take 10 or
take 20 on an aid another check, but you can use aid another to
help a creature who is taking 10 or 20 on a check.

As stated above there are other specific actions to assist others in combat.

AHAH I'm not crazy.

I wouldn't go that far BNW. You were however correct. :)

...I'mean sure that everyone in 2018 is deeply impressed with your rant about the concept of game balance.

And welcome back to posting.

I see your last post before this was in 2016.

Try to pop in more often.

It's not terribly hard to make Methanol, you could certainly make a methanol powered generator to recharge other devices.

We've got those armor upgrades that generate charges while you're moving, mount one of those to a treadmill or big hamster wheel (depending on what kind of PCs you you have) and have a new downtime chore.

To piggy back on this.

A stationary bike hooked up to a generator. Pedal away!

For hydro power you can use a water wheel of some sort. Just need a flowing river and you are good to go.

Also they could use wind power relatively easily also.

You also could use steam power on a small scale with a tea kettle and token spell. Boil water under pressure spin a small turbine and generate electricity. No fossil fuels required.

Except they do have all that.

What I’ve gleamed from this thread is that you don’t like space pirates (cool) but you’re letting your bias warp your responses in order to to try to justify your dislike (not cool) and that isn’t backed up and has been repeatedly countered in this thread.

Your arguments keep circling around “I don’t like space pirates, therefore they shouldn’t exist” when there’s been plenty of reasons and explanations given, and most likely more to come, on how they’re able to exist.

As do all of his arguments.

I don't like space pirates.
I don't like the Starfinder economy.
I don't like leveled equipment lists.
I don't like the lack of law enforcement rules.
I don't like dungeon crawls disguised as space adventures.
I don't like...………..

Really leaves only one conclusion.

Ixal doesn't like Starfinder.

Makes me wonder why he continues to troll these forums.

It is a variation on the "start of every Elder Scrolls title" in video games.

Fixed that for ya. LOL!

you're fighting a fire elemental in a fireworks factory

Brilliant! Consider this nicked and inserted into my game at some point in the near future. LOL!!

And unless you're shooting a verty specific kind of video there's no reason you can't have second skin skivvies.

What kind of video??? LOL!

Ixal wrote:

And that is the problem. Why would people, civilians who can't even fight and don't expect that they have to, wear armor all the time? Armor which not only costs a fortune but is also restrictive (maximum Dex and speed penalty).

...why do you think they're wearing armor all the time? There are other kinds of clothing in the game

Of the 24 player characters in my campaign not one uses heavy armor or power armor.

A couple have tried it, but when spaceport authorities prevented them from getting off the ship with it on, or when wearing it and venturing into a settlement and then being hassled by local law enforcement, the decided it was better to get light armor and be less obvious about their intentions.

Nobody wears heavy armor / power armor just for S's & G's. You mean business, not necessarily the good kind.

At least that's how it works at my table.

My character is a soldier, and also a guitarist in a speed metal band. Dick Justice doesn't do the opera.

LOL! I love it. Well done.

Reality: sometimes people forget how unrealistic it is.

A further case in point.

A pair of stereo speakers.

speakers

Verses a reliable automobile.

automobile

Please don't talk to me about Starfinder prices.

Entire rant

Clearly your statements tell me you do not like Starfinder. Great no problem. Then please move on. Stop trolling the Starfinder forums with you anti-Starfinder rhetoric.

We get it you dislike the rules. The majority of us here like the Starfinder and are fine with the rules.

Let us discuss the game in relative peace.

Send me a PM with your email address.

I will scan and email you a copy of the card.

My group uses their ship for all sorts of things.

I have a 6 player group. Most of the time in outdoors adventures 2 players stay with the ship and perform as a mission control platform providing surveillance, intel and communications support.

The ship can be used for fire support if need be (yes I am aware that you cannot target an individual or a small group), taking out building, turrets, vehicles or just causing the enemies to scatter as the ground erupts with fire from above.

The player's ship also contains a medical lad, general science lab and machine shop.

Nothing ingratiates the players to the locals more than healing people, finding the scientific answer to the local's problem or building / repairing something important for the locals.

My players regularly use the ship for all sorts of things on the ground.

If their cleverness is reasonable, I am inclined to allow it.

Starting with the grooved shuriken and up, they are sold individually.

Makes me wonder if the (10) is a typo. As if they were originally going to be listed in the ammo section.

If I am not mistaken it may be the only weapon that is listed as more than 1 for the listed price.

85 credits for a single Carbonedge Shuriken makes more sense then for 10. It also seem price wise in line for similar damage Level 1 melee weapons.

Tac Baton: 90, Basic Handaxe 90, Survival Knife: 95

I think I am going to house rule that the price is per shuriken.

Probably a good candidate for a FAQ.

I'm good. I know I won't convince you, and you haven't really said anything that convinces me. But I've laid out my arguments so anyone reading the thread can make up their own mind. After that, the rest would just be repetitive :)

I wasn't asking you to stop trying to convince me.

If you go up a couple of posts you will see it was directed at BNW.

Really only BNW and I have been going round and round.

I understand you position.

When Bethesda studios did something similar, we the train wreck known as Fallout 76.

Lets hope for something better.