Hamzah Hamas Al Dajannah's page

I've been running the remastered swashbuckler. Panache generation is much easier, but they are still a big hit class like the magus without the severe crit damage potential.

Do you feel the finishers match the aggregate damage of other classes to the point that the Finisher tag should deny attacking a second or third time?

I've noticed that against high AC enemies the swashbuckler damage really drops badly. The fighter is the king martial for dealing with high AC targets. Single big hit classes really have their damage reduced against high AC targets. The Swashbuckler in particularly really suffers with the single big hit strategy.

How do your remastered swashbuckler players deal with a high AC target? Do they start doing multiple attacks and avoid finishers or do they keep trying to land a finisher?

How are you seeing the class perform after the remaster?

Going to play a dual class game. If you were doing a dual class, what would be the best dual class blaster? What would you build and why?

I'm figuring some kind of sorcerer, but what other class would you choose to maximize blasting power?

I've been looking a little closer at the Remastered Oracle. It isn't as interesting as the original oracle in terms of unique abilities, but it does look like it has some nice abilities like Foretell Harm and Mysterious Repertoire.

How is this class? How does it perform in battle?

Anyone try the Remastered Alchemist? Is it better? Is the versatile vile mechanic better than all at once?

I'm going to toss these on here as this is the best I could come up with given the structure of the rules.

My goals with these house rules:

1. Streamline kingdom building.

2. Enable players to build an interesting and involved kingdom that can roll to do anything. Kingdoms should not be limited like players. They should have access to every skill and be able to roll to do everything. Kingdoms are thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of people. Limiting skills like you are regular character is not a great way to simulate this.

3. Make tasks that shouldn't be so difficult easy. If you've claimed a hex before, it shouldn't become nearly impossible to claim at high level. It should become easier to do simple tasks.

4. I provided skill ups every level. Limited skill ups combined with high DC rolls was such a bad way to do kingdom building that I'm not sure how it wasn't seen as a problem. For example, my players' kingdom is level 14 and put no skill ups in agriculture which gives them a bonus roll of +18 with a DC of 36 for level 14 Dominion.

That means they would need to roll an 18 or better to Establish Farmland, something they've been doing since the early levels is now nearly impossible due the way the kingdom building rules are made. If they don't spend multiple skill ups to obtain a Master level in Agriculture, this simple task is nearly impossible. Even if they spend to obtain a Master level, their roll would be +24 with a 14 stability. That means they need a 12 or better at level 14 to Establish Farmland, an over 50 percent failure rate.

You couple this with all the different skills you need to conduct warfare and industry and negotiation and the like, you have kingdom rules that set the players up for a lot of failure and frustrating kingdom building that makes everything far too complicated, difficult, and gives the feeling of a nearly impossible task of building up a successful kingdom.

If they decide to redo the kingdom rules, please get rid of the idea a kingdom should be like a character and focus on making it fun, fulfilling, and far, far simpler like they did in PF1.

I did as much as I could to make kingdom building something the players can enjoy and feel good about. This is what I came up with after trial and error trying to make the kingdom building usable.

Kingdom Building House Rules

KINGDOM CREATION

1. Start all statistics at 12 instead of 10 before applying modifiers during kingdom creation.

2. The kingdom starts with trained proficiency in every skill.

3. Choose Leaders: Each PC provides the kingdom with a skill increase to a Kingdom Skill of their choice increasing the skill to expert proficiency. This is in addition to the stat increases you receive from the other choices made during kingdom creation.

4. All starting choices that provide trained in a skill instead provide a skill increase to a maximum of expert.

INGDOM LEVELING

SKILL INCREASES: Your kingdom gains a skill increase every level starting at 2nd level.

LEADERSHIP ROLES

Key Ability This lists the kingdom ability score that is most impacted by the leader. When this role is invested, all Kingdom skill checks based on this ability gain a +1 leadership bonus. This bonus increases to +2 when the kingdom reaches 8th level, and then to +3 when the kingdom reaches 16th level.

KINGDOM SKILLS

BASIC SKILL CHECKS: Many activities call for a basic skill check—a skill check where the DC is your kingdom’s Control DC.

SIMPLE SKILL CHECKS: Some skills maintain their level of difficulty regardless of your kingdom’s level. These skill actions require a DC 15 skill check modified by the Kingdom Size Modifier.

Simple Skill Actions: Abandon Hex, Build Roads, Celebrate Holiday, Claim Hex, Clear Hex, Demolish, Establish Farmland, Establish Settlement, Establish Work Site, Harvest Crops, Gather Livestock, Go Fishing, Harvest Crops, Irrigation.

KINGDOM FEATS

Kingdom Feats: Special: All kingdom feats that provide a status bonus to a skill stack with the leadership bonus provided by Invested Leadership roles for a skill, but do not stack with other feats that provide a status bonus to the same skill. The additional status bonus for a given skill can only be provided by a single feat.

RUNNING A KINGDOM

Kingdom Level: The Kingdom level equals the PC’s level.

Resource Points: Any remaining resource points can be saved for future use.

SETTLEMENTS
Influence: Villages: 1 Hex. Town: 2 Hexes. City: 3 Hexes. Metropolis: 4 Hexes.

STRUCTURES

Buildings: Keep, Castle, and Palace: Add Residential tag to these buildings.

Buildings: All structures are based on Engineering skill or any skill that acts as Engineering such as Magic if you have the Practical Magic feat. You can also use the listed skill if it is higher than your Engineering or equivalent skill.

This is about as simple as I can make it while enabling players to build a robust, powerful feeling kingdom that enables them to feel like they're not overly limited.

It took quite a few modifications and much testing. I finally hit a tolerable spot for myself and the players.

A few questions to see how people run this:

1. If you forbid strike, do you allow Forbidden Thought to trigger on a subordinate Strike like with Reactive Strike or a Strike as part of another action like a Spellstrike or Draconic Frenzy?

Forbidden Thought says if they try to take the action on their next turn, so I would think it would not trigger on Reactive Strike even if it triggers on a subordinate action.

But not sure if the Strike is part of a subordinate action of something like Draconic Frenzy or Spellstrike.

How do you see it?

2. Forbidden Thought says if you take the action on the next turn, then you make the save. But what if you take the action multiple times on the next turn?

If you forbid Strike and the creature strikes three times during its next turn, does it save each time? Save the first time it tries, then becomes immune for the other actions? Or make the save, then take the damage for each forbidden action for the turn, then the effect ends at the end of the turn then become immune to future attempts?

How do you run this for multiple forbidden actions during the same turn?

I did not expect this level of improvement for so many classes in Player Core 2. A lot of good quality of life improvements as well as power increases. Overall, I like almost everything I've seen.

Swashbuckler: I think this is the most improved class in the Remaster. It went from a techy class over-reliant on rolls to generate panache to probably the best pure dex-based warrior in the game. They made real intelligent mechanical changes to panache and that bravado trait allowed them a wide design space for feats. Adding the bravado trait and smoothing over the mechanics of the swashbuckler was a lot of real intelligent design work. I commend whoever worked on the swashbuckler. Well done. It looks great. My swashbuckler player who loves them is really excited to play one.

Alchemist: This class also looks a ton better. Between the huge number of new alchemical items and the mechanical changes, alchemist looks like the second most improved class in the game. Very playable now with a lot more endurance out of the gate.

Barbarian: Pretty good quality of life improvements making rage work all the time. No more getting knocked out then not being able to rage for a minute. Now it can drawn on as needed in combat. Instincts are a little better. Action economy a bit better as well. Overall good.

Sorcerer: Lost a little, gained a little. The class feels a bit more unique now leaning into the power of bloodlines. I like that sorcerous potency is a class feature now not easily poached. Makes them the king of blasting against like PF1. Loss of cross-blooded evolution hurts some, but it was too good as it was. Now it feels more like crossblood than a feat to pick up a random high value spell.

Investigator: Definitely better. Still a niche class, but still much better even for those that want to play one in any campaign. Allows their features to be used more often.

Champion: Not sure about this one. I'll have to see it in play. Looks roughly the same with less obvious upgrades. Wish they had completely rid the class of the need for Charisma as it has too many stats necessary to make it work for all its features.

Oracle: Definitely not sure on this one. Going to take time to figure how this class works now. Probably the biggest mechanically changed class in the remaster.

Monk: Not many changes. Tightened up Monastic weaponry. Weakened the monk archetype to make the monk master of Flurry of Blows.

Overall, I like the player core 2. Nice design work. Should improve the game and make more classes competitive choices in group play.

I do not recall the divine list having the fly spell in PF2 before the Remaster.

Fly is listed on the Divine list now on Archives. Is that accurate?

What other spells expanded to other lists in the Remaster? I can see Divine having fly, but I was surprised when I hit level 7 and fly was available for a divine caster as I was used to having to use air walk for a divine caster.

I am going to document my inexorable iron magus build and damage comparable to the two-weapon flurry ranger and a fighter.

Human (Nephilim) Inexorable Iron Magus

I've tested a d12 non-reach weapon and a d10 reach weapon. I'm thinking the d10 reach weapon is better for a spellstriking inexorable iron magus.

Reach can avoid more AOOs and set up more of the inexorable iron abilities like spellswipe and devastating spellstrike. I think it is worth the slight loss of damage for the increased reach since the majority of magus damage comes from the spelstrike spell damage. I want to have more opportunities for positioning attacks for the extra little bits of AOE damage and swiping when it sets up right.

Magus is up to level 3 with a starting strength of 18.

Level 2 feat: Force Fang: I like this ability as it is guaranteed damage and recharges the spellstrike as well as hitting incorporeal creatures and have few creatures resistant to it.

I was looking at the oracle. Given the new refocus rules allowing full points back all day the oracle is now penalized for relying on focus points. Before their curse advances, they are limited to a single focus point use after advancing their curse to minor for the rest of the day as advancing their curse past moderate overwhelms them.

So first encounter you can use two focus points, then every other encounter for the rest of the day you can use 1 or you become overwhelmed even if you focus to recover multiple points.

For a class heavily built on focus point use for revelation spells, this pretty terrible.

Have they given any viable workarounds for this prior to the remaster? It really puts them at a disadvantage given how other classes can get their focus points back much easier.

I'm playing a fighter. I'm a bit tired of the optimized two-hand trip build with knockdown.

What are some other interesting somewhat optimized fighter builds?

I have a real problem playing a character that performs poorly due to obviously bad feat or tactical choices. But there has to be a few builds that work somewhat well other than the obvious alpha trip build.

Are there any good two-weapon builds?

I've heard of some quality forced movement builds.

Has anyone tried a dual falcata two-weapon fighter? Or would that be far better as a ranger?

I've played so many trip characters at this point with monks, fighters, and barbs that I would like to give some new at least somewhat decent strategy a shot.

Does anyone know what they actually intended with this Accurate Flurry level 20 feat?

Impossible Flurry
[three-actions]
Feat 18
Flourish Ranger
Source Player Core pg. 163
Requirements You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand
You forgo precision to attack at an impossible speed. Make three melee Strikes with each of the required weapons. Your first attack with each weapon takes the multiple attack penalty as though you had already made one attack this turn. All of the remaining Strikes take the maximum multiple attack penalty.

Accurate Flurry
Feat 20
Legacy Content
Ranger
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 133 2.0
Prerequisites Impossible Flurry
Requirements You are wielding two melee weapons, each in a different hand.
You refine the precision of your unbelievable storm of blows. When you perform an Impossible Flurry, your first attack with each weapon instead takes the multiple attack penalty as though you had already made one attack this turn. All subsequent attacks take the maximum multiple attack penalty, as though you had already made two or more attacks this turn.

These look exactly the same. Did something change between PF1 and PF2 with the ranger to alter these feats?

Do all these feats interact to in essence make you effectively hidden unless you critically fail at a Stealth check or desire to be seen?

Legendary Sneak: Hide or Sneak with no cover or concealment. Avoid notice during exploration and another activity.

Sneak Savant: Only fail a sneak check on a critical fail.

Blank Slate: Immune to detect, scry, or revelation spells under 10th level.

Can you tell the DM you are always sneaking? How do some of you play this combination?

Is a rogue with Disappearance and Blank Slate really as brutal as it seems?

I cast this spell after getting Blank Slate in a dual class rogue/magus game and it was like I was unlocatable. Nothing could challenge this invisibility other than a Seek check just to locate the square you are in and you're still invisible or a non-divination spell like faerie fire hitting you. It works against all senses and blank slate blocks nearly every possible divination locate you.

How do some DMs deal with this combination?

Any guidance on hitting the second target when using Imaginary Weapon with Eldritch Archer?

Eldritch Archer provides less explanation than Magus for corner cases like Imaginary Weapon. So how are people doing Imaginary Weapon amp with Eldritch Archer?

I'm finally giving this combination a shot. It seems insanely overpowered. It is far superior to any other archer option in the game with few weaknesses. It seems to match even fighters for damage if not exceeds what they can do.

Today I just hit a Lesser Death for 193 points of damage with an amped imaginary weapon with a natural 20. Sure, it was a natural 20. But even so, it was an absolutely insane critical hit. I was able to do this while the Lesser Death had already used its reaction.

Starlit Span is one of the few classes I've seen that seems a real peg or two above the PF2 power scale. If there is a Tier 1, they are Tier 1+.

Did any of you do anything to rein this option in without banning it? Or do you think PF2 designers will nerf this option at some point?

Since I love to rag on classes I think are terrible which are fortunately fairly few in PF2, I'd like to admit I was wrong about the summoner. I whined quite a bit during the playtest feeling like the summoner was getting shafted with this dual hit point pool and the fact summons aren't that great. The eidolon seemed weak to me too, but once you see how it works with the summoner it works very well.

I would rate the summoner as an upper tier class. Very powerful. Very useful. Lots of role versatility all rolled up in one package.

The summoner class name doesn't really fit what the class does well. They have so few spell slots and summons are not a great use of the small number of spell slots. So it is best to view the eidolon as a sort of super summon that acts as a summoned weapon or tool created from your lifeforce.

I personally would have still preferred a summon font or a focus point driven summon spell to make the summoner summoned creature enhancement feats far more useful, but that isn't the direction they went with Master Summoner feat.

Even without the summons, the class is still very good.

What does the summoner do well?

Action Economy: The summoner is probably the best action economy class in the game. I can't think of another class that can do so much in a round.

As we know in PF2 action economy is a big deal. So a class that is the best at action economy allows for a lot of build options.

I've found through testing the summoner can do a lot of builds. Some of the things I've done:

1. Defensive Build: A caster eidolon and summoner can maintain two Forbidding Wards on two different characters while still doing other things like moving and attacking.

2. A healer summoner is quite good. You can use a 2 action heal and a battle medicine in the same round while still having the eidolon attack.

3. Movement with tandem movement is fluid and is a worthwhile feat tax.

4. You can make the main eidolon weapon useful for a variety of actions if you want to build around a particular combat maneuver.

5. It's easy to use intimidate to lower AC on a target while attacking with the eidolon.

6. The stat array of the eidolon is quite nice. You can build a powerhouse physical eidolon with the extra boosts so you end up with a Master level weapon with a 24 main attack stat that can hit fairly hard.

7. Summoners always have something to do. If you look at Boost Eidolon as something to use constantly, it seems somewhat lacking. If you look at boost eidolon as one of many available options, it's a great 1 action option when you don't need to cast or do much else but hit and do some damage.

8. You can flank with your eidolon.

9. The 10 hit points is pretty nice for a secondary caster who can spend a heavy number of ability boosts on Con, while focusing the Eidolon's main attack stats up.

10. The eidolon can operate at range with a feat or in melee, so you can build to be a switch hitter much easier than most classes.

11. Picking Eidolon AoO allows for a good use of your shared reaction.

12. Evolution Surge allows you to simulate feats you need not take to fit a given situation. So you have a lot of feat flexibility due to Evolution Surge.

13. Most of the eidolons are fairly well built. I'd personally like more customization, but this class has so much already I can see why they tried to keep it simple.

14. Healing at two points can be extremely tactically useful. You can use this to your advantage.

15. From a pure aesthetics and creative perspective, this class leads to an extensive amount of creativity in builds. You can make your eidolon look like whatever you feel like and come up with whatever weird reason you want to look a certain way.

I made a psychopomp eidolon that looked like a giant raven and when it manifested, I had the summoner look like the crow character from the movie.

I made a metal elemental summoner and the summoner's eyes turn the color of steel when it manifested. The eidolon looks like a Valkyrie made of steel with a versatile weapon that changes according to the needs of the fight.

I made a samurai that summoned a dragon eidolon as his weapon like a Bleach character summoning a bankai form from their sword.

You can dream up whatever you want as a summoner.

What are the downsides?

1. The joint hit point pool can be exploited if attacked at two points. It does happen on occasion, but not near often enough to make a summoner unplayable. It can be quite brutal when it happens as the summoner is much weaker defensively. So you have to be on your toes for this type of assault on the summoner. Getting attacked at two points can eat your big hit point pool up quite quickly.

Of course, AoEs can be brutal making protective bond a feat tax. I might house rule at some point that Protective Bond is gained around level 11 as a bonus feat. Unlike Tandem Move, Protective Bond feels like a punishing feat tax. It should be a class ability.

Overall not as bad as I originally thought and it can be exploited advantageously for healing.

2. Summoners aren't good at summoning. Then again summons aren't very good. Until summons are more useful at higher level, the summoner's summoning feats are a trap. I would stay away from them and build the summoner to have lots of other actions and abilities.

3. Skills. Be nice if the eidolon had separate skill ups. It's kind of odd as a summoner to have to build up Athletics and Acrobatics so your eidolon can have those skills at a high level since they are in combat quite a bit and want to use combat maneuvers. Since these skills are also useful to the summoner, it could be worse.

Some remaster rules that might make eidolons even better:

1. Removing the stat from cantrip damage. Eidolon casters having to spend points to build up their casting stat to do good cantrip damage since that is their primary attack form will have it better when they can ignore their casting stat and still do good damage with cantrips.

You may at that point be able to not bother with the ranged unarmed attack feat eidolons get and pick up Eidolon casting for a couple of cantrips. One can be shield and one a ranged cantrip for when they might want to use a ranged attack. Damage should still be decent with no developed casting stat.

That's my 2 cents. I wanted to give the designer of the summoner class (Mark Seifter?) a kudos. I was wrong about the class. It's a great class with amazing action economy. I see now they they had to be very careful as Act Together is even now a borderline too good ability.

Draconic Rage damage has the Arcane and Evocation trait.

Arcane: This magic comes from the arcane tradition, which is built on logic and rationality. Anything with this trait is magical.

Evocation: Effects and magic items with this trait are associated with the evocation school of magic, typically involving energy and elemental forces.

Are magic immune creatures like golems and will-o-wisps immune to draconic rage damage?

I've always played any magic immune creature is immune to Draconic Rage damage. Magic immune creatures are fairly rare overall, but golems seem to show up quite a bit.

How do most people run this? What is your rule basis for doing so if magic immune creatures are not immune to draconic rage damage.

I'm reading over dragonhide armor. It doesn't seem to have any better hardness than leather. It doesn't seem to provide any other benefit than the following:

1. Armor is immune to an energy type.

2. You get a +1 circumstance bonus to AC and saves against the energy type.

You pay an exorbitant amount for just the above? Is it really that bad or am I missing something?

We know positive energy cannot heal undead.

But it also says under the undead trait that nothing with the healing trait can heal undead unless something else modifies it like Stitch Flesh.

We know negative energy healing effects like Harm can heal undead.

What else can heal undead? A couple of my players plan to play undead archetypes. I would like to know what kind of pain is to heal them?

I decided to give a Trip specialist a shot. They are indeed brutal. Almost nothing is immune to being knocked prone. Prone only provides a bonus against ranged attacks if you take cover while prone. Reflex saves are usually the lowest on many creatures.

I want to make sure I'm running this right in regards to flying creatures because knocking them out of the air seems pretty powerful.

The questions:

If you trip a flying creature, they are knocked to the ground prone if they are less than 500 feet up?

They can use the Arrest a Fall reaction to prevent themselves from taking any damage when falling, but are still knocked prone? Or they land without going prone because they don't take damage? Tripping doesn't require damage, but going prone when falling does. What rule applies? Trip or not taking damage when falling?

Even flying creatures must take an action to right themselves before taking other actions after being knocked prone? They can't fly off from the prone position?

Is anything immune to being knocked prone? From what I'm seeing everything can be tripped. Is that true? It trip the most powerful maneuver in PF2? The God Maneuver?

Why do castles, keeps, and palaces lack the residential tag? These types of buildings housed an enormous number of people within a community, yet they lack the residential tag.

I can't see why they would not have this tag. I know for a fact castles, keeps, and palaces housed entire groups of families, soldiers, servants, and could even have trade shops inside of them. It seems like an oversight if an Inn or Orphanage is considered residential.

Is this how it works?

I'm really enjoying Kingmaker in PF2. The ruler in this edition is a Fighter and in PF2 a fighter can truly be a powerful king unlike in PF1 where you had to play soft so they didn't end up the puppet of a wizard or caster.

The encounters have been fun and well designed and fun. It's much easier to run without a lot of modification of the enemies.

Kingdom building is a little off with the experience, but the rounds are more interesting and engaging for the DM and players. I feel I have more flexibility with event design and the players feel more engaged picking which activities to undertake in a given round.

So for a great experience. Materials are nice with the pawns and map design.

Overall, a great experience. I now consider Kingmaker the best PF2 Adventure Path.

My group is about to establish their kingdom and start kingdom building rounds. This system is a lot more involved than the previous system. I'm wondering for those groups that have already reached the kingdom building phases, how is it going?

Any major issues? Any good fixes? Are the players enjoying it?

I want to pick up some pawns.

Is there going to be a Elemental Rage Instinct or a Elemental Eidolon added as class options in the Rage of Elements book?

It's been a while since the summoner was released. How is the class performing? How does it compare in damage to other classes?

I was thinking of a dual class summoner concept, but I'm still not sure how well the summoner performs. It's one of my favorite classes, but the PF2 version seems incredibly underwhelming and didn't seem to perform very well in play against many other classes. It wasn't low level wizard bad, but more on the lower end of optimization.

I'm wondering if anyone else has tried to optimize a summoner and made it standout as one of the stronger classes in a group in terms of damage and overall effectiveness. If anyone has come up with optimized summoner builds that do well against boss monsters (CR+3 or +4).

If you were doing a summoner dual class, what would you make for an optimal combination?

I'm thinking of letting my players try dual classing. How much extra power is it? Does it make DMing much more difficult?

My players think PF2 magic items are uninteresting other than weapons and an occasional item here and there like a Greater Cloak of Elvenkind. What do you think of magic items? Are they unappealing and mostly unnecessary?

My players don't use many talismans or temporary magic items and have little trouble still winning. The only magic item that has an noticeable effect on combat is magic weapons and at very high level a stat enhancing item.

I would say casters using wands or spell items are more useful. But even those often get overlooked for using innate powers and abilities.

If your players don't find them very interesting, have you done anything to make them more interesting?

I've written up the following house rules to make the summoner operate in a way I prefer for my home games. This should make them the undisputed best at using summoned creatures in the game as well as smooth over some of the issues with the eidolon and using self-only buffs. Let me know if you see any issues that might allow an excessive mechanical advantage or an imbalance.

Break Connection (Level 1): Reaction. Trigger Your eidolon suffers an attack that takes it below 0 hit points or kills it. You sever the connection between you and your eidolon remaining conscious with 1 hit point. This ability does not prevent you from dropping below 1 hit point or falling unconscious if both you and the eidolon are struck for damage at the same time such as being hit by the same area of effect attack.

Eidolon: You and the eidolon do not share a multiple attack penalty or a reaction. You and your eidolon each have their own reaction with the usual limitations on reactions. Remove all rules language that indicate a summoner shares its multiple attack penalty and reaction with the eidolon.

Link Spells and Cantrips: You can cast a spell or cantrip that is normally self-only on your eidolon. The spell moves through the link’s connection and manifests from the eidolon up to the same range you can exert control over the eidolon. If you cast the spell affecting the eidolon, you must use your actions (including reactions and free actions) to activate any abilities such as a shield block with a shield spell. If the eidolon casts the spell, then the eidolon must use its reaction or free action in accordance with the ability.

This ability is in addition to the normal benefits provided by Link Spells.

Master Spellcaster: Add: Your proficiency ranks for spell attack rolls and spell DCs for spells with the summoned and incarnate trait of your eidolon's tradition increase to legendary.

Summoner Feats

Master Summoner (Summoner 6): Add: Any summons cast using your Summoner spell slots gain a +2 status bonus to attack rolls.

Legendary Summoner (Summoner 20): Add: You can summon creatures 1 level higher than the highest level your spells allow so a 10th level slot can be used to summon a Level 16 creature rather than a level 15 creature. A level 9 spell can be used to summon a level 14 creature rather than level 13.

I finally played the current iteration of the summoner. I have to say I don't like it.

Why?

1. The Joined Hit Point Pool: I understood why they did this. I see there are ways to exploit it. It sure feels bad in play. Sending your eidolon into battle leaves it open to getting smashed. When it gets crit and goes down, then you drop it feels pretty lame.

If you are far away, then the healer has to make its way to you to heal if they are close to the melee battle which sometimes takes a move or two depending on how far away you are from the eidolon.

Then getting back into battle is pretty clunky. Three action summon providing the eidolon one action to move back into battle is very action intensive in these short fights.

Someone clarify for me. If my eidolon is knocked down, do I gain the dying condition? I roll the death checks right? If they are critically hit when knocked down, I'm dying 2?

2. Shared MAP: Shared Map feels pretty terrible. You can't cast an attack cantrip while the Eidolon attacks and have a good chance to hit. So you're stuck with save cantrips which is pretty limited.

You also can't use a weapon, so you're very limited in actions which usually consist of Boost Eidolon, a save cantrip or spell, or a skill check like intimidation.

3. The Eidolon's damage output isn't that great for all the actions it takes to do. If you're going to have this eidolon that plays much like a martial with no shield, there should be some advantage to their damage output.

4. Limited Spell Slots: Just not fun with the summoner. If you take something to deal with invisibility so your eidolon can keep attacking, that can take quite a few spell slots until you're high enough level to get the eidolon it's own means to see invis.

This can be somewhat mitigated with magic items.

Now it's not all bad. The summoner has some interesting advantages:

1. Sustaining Spells: You can sustain some spells on yourself using the eidolon with Act Together. That can useful if you want to use the eidolon to sustain a spell while you cast or do something else.

2. You can build a decent eidolon caster: You can add spells to your eidolon turning it into a caster. You can build a pretty nice caster eidolon if you focus on it. It's an interesting option.

What has been the experience of the community with the summoner? How are you using them What interesting ways have you found to use the summoner? How do you like the class?

Option to purchase slave on the Archives of Nethys

Option to purchase slave on the Pathfinder 1 SRD

I can't believe I missed this on the SRDs all these years. Then again until COVID I played at my buddies' houses using books and we never bought the book this trash is in. But this should just be gone. I am so happy I don't have players that tried to "buy a slave" as a player purchasable option.

No wonder the writers are pissed off and a certain segment of the player base.

What's next? I'm supposed to role-play with my player the life of a slave? Have some guy telling how he was taken from his family or people, beaten until he submitted to servitude, and if he gets out of line or tries to escape let the player hire a slave breaker to put him back in line?

The people that run these SRDs that think is an ok option to have on there as a player purchasable option should get rid of that trash. Fricking terrible idea.

My players feel PF2 magic items are lackluster other than striking weapons.

Magic armor doesn't seem to do anything as they get crit or hit easily by boss monsters.

Saving throw items are ok, but DCs are so high for enemies even with items they don't seem to do much.

They don't feel the bonus from buying skill improving items is satisfying.

They sort of like staves, but don't care much about wands.

PF1 they focused on high value items like stat increases, fortification armor, staves, wands, and items that provided a feeling of substantial improvement and power.

How do your players feel about PF2 magic items? And have you done anything to make them more interesting and attractive to your players?

Posting my groups house rules. The aim of these rules was the following:

1.Make playing a caster more fun and flexible

2. Smoothing over Swashbuckler play.

3. Giving the alchemist an item worth taking that they were most likely to use.

4. Make the wizard more desirable and competitive as a class.

5. Make Polymorph spells operate in a more internally consistent manner within the world.

6. Make summons spells threatening to enemies of an equal or level+2.

7. Make the crossbow a competitive weapon someone might use.

It's a fairly small list of house rules compared to PF1.

___________

MAGIC ITEMS

Alchemist Goggles: Item 4+ Invested Magical Transmutation Usage worn eyepiece

These brass goggles are engraved with flame patterns and have thick, heavy lenses. While worn, they give you a +1 item bonus to Crafting checks to Craft alchemical items and add +1d4 precision damage to attacks with alchemical bombs. The extra damage is not applied to splash or persistent damage or a bomb that does not do damage. You can also ignore lesser cover when making Strikes with alchemical bombs.

FEATS

Shield Block: change to, “You and the shield each take any remaining damage, possibly breaking or destroying the shield, divided between the shield and the player equally with the player taking the higher damage in the case of odd totals.”

SPELLS

Magic Fang:[b] add line, “This spell works for animal companions.”

[b]Acid Splash:: Add the splash trait.

Chill Touch, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Divine Lance: Increase damage and heightened non-persistent damage to d6.

Summons: Summon spells use the caster’s spell attack roll for their attack roll for their attacks.

Polymorph: These effects transform the target into a new form. A target can’t be under the effect of more than one polymorph effect at a time. If it comes under the effect of a second polymorph effect, the second polymorph effect attempts to counteract the first. If it succeeds, it takes effect, and if it fails, the spell has no effect on that target. Any Strikes specifically granted by a polymorph effect are magical. Unless otherwise stated, polymorph spells don’t allow the target to take on the appearance of a specific individual creature, but rather just a generic creature of a general type or ancestry.

If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties. Your battle form can speak if a common creature of the type you are transformed into has the means to speak. You can cast spells if the form you transform into allows manipulate actions that would allow somatic components. You can only cast spells using verbal or somatic components while in a battle form that allows speaking and manipulate actions. You may use any actions including skills and skill feats the battle form would allow. (If there’s doubt about whether you can use an action, the GM decides.) Your gear is absorbed into you; the constant abilities of your gear still function, but you can’t activate any items.

ENCOUNTER RULES

Switching Hands: Switching from one hand to two hands or vice versa is a free action for a weapon.

Drawing a Weapon: You can draw a weapon as part of a move action and you can draw two weapons as part of move or as a single action if you are trained in dual weapon fighting of some kind.

Downtime Healing and Persistent Damage

Post-Combat Persistent Damage: Post combat persistent damage will continue for 1d4 rounds if a standard 15 check. If a natural 20 is required to end persistent bleed damage it will continue on for 1d20 rounds or until a check or healing is completed that would end it. A DM should adjust the number of rounds up or down by 1 for every five points of the DC lower or up 1 round for every 2 points of DC higher than 15.

An Administer First Aid check to halt persistent bleed damage reduces the post-combat bleed damage by 1 round on a success and 2 rounds on a critical success.

Hero Points

Your heroic deeds earn you Hero Points, which grant you good fortune or let you recover from the brink of death. Unlike most aspects of your character, which persist over the long term, Hero Points last for only a single session.

The GM is in charge of awarding Hero Points. Usually, each character gets 1 Hero Point at the start of a session and can gain more later by performing heroic deeds—something selfless, daring, or beyond normal expectations. You can have a maximum of 3 Hero Points at a time, and you lose any remaining Hero Points at the end of a session.

You can spend your Hero Points in a variety of ways. Neither of these is an action, and you can spend Hero Points even if you aren’t able to act. You can spend a Hero Point on behalf of your familiar or animal companion.

Spend 1 Hero Point to do the following:

You can reroll a check. You must use the second result or a 10, whichever is higher. This is a fortune effect (which means you can’t use more than 1 Hero Point on a check).

Roll twice on a single attack or saving throw. You can choose to roll twice before making the roll. You must accept the result of the higher dice roll. This is a fortune effect (which means you can’t use more than 1 Hero Point on a check).

Regain a key ability that can be used more than one time per day. You cannot use this on an ability that can be used only once per day. You can regain a focus point, start a rage, gain a panache, or any similar ability by spending a hero point. You can only use one hero point in this fashion per ten minute rest.

Use an additional reaction. You can use one hero point to use an additional reaction ability. This is a fortune effect (which means you can’t use more than 1 Hero Point on a round).

Heroic Action. You can use a hero point to modify a spell on the fly to put out a fire, use one of your skills in an unusual and heroic way, or something else similar. The GM will determine what is possible after hearing the player’s suggestion.

Spend all your Hero Points (minimum 1) to avoid death. You can do this when you’re dying condition would increase. You lose the dying condition entirely and stabilize with 0 Hit Points. You don’t gain the wounded condition or increase its value from losing the dying condition in this way, but if you already had that condition, you don’t lose it or decrease its value.

EQUIPMENT

Crossbow: d10 Fatal trait.
Heavy Crossbow: d12 Fatal Trait.

CLASSES

Class Abilities

Bard, Cleric, Druid, Magus, Oracle, Sorcerer, Summoner, Witch, Wizard

Weapon Specialization: You’ve learned how to inflict greater injuries with the weapons you know best. You deal an additional 2 damage with weapons, unarmed attacks, and cantrips, focus spells, or spells with the attack trait that require an attack roll to hit in which you are an expert. This damage increases to 3 if you’re a master, and 4 if you’re legendary.

Unlimited Signature Spells (All casters and multiclass casters): All of your spells are signature spells. That means that if you know a spell, you can heighten it freely by casting it from a higher-level spell slot, up to the maximum level of spell you can cast. You can similarly cast any of its lower-level versions without learning them separately.

Note: These rules alter the rules for heightening, but do not alter any additional rules such as spellbooks, special focuses, or the like.

Class Feats

Nimble Dodge: Change to, “Trigger A creature hits you with an attack and you can see the attacker.”

Swashbuckler

Thrill of Battle (lvl 1): The swashbuckler gains panache when he rolls initiative.

Finisher Tag: Finishers are spectacular finishing moves that use your panache. You can use a finisher only if you have panache, and you lose your panache immediately after performing a finisher. You can only use one finisher per round.

Some actions that have the finisher trait also grant an effect on a failure. Effects added on a failure don't apply on a critical failure. If your finisher action succeeds, you can still choose to apply the failure effect instead. For example, you might do this when an attack deals no damage due to resistance.

Wizard

Arcane Thesis: During your studies to become a full-fledged wizard, you produced a thesis of unique magical research on one of a variety of topics. You gain a special benefit depending on the topic of your thesis research. The arcane thesis topics presented in this book are below; your specific thesis probably has a much longer and more technical title like “On the Methods of Spell Interpolation and the Genesis of a New Understanding of the Building Blocks of Magic.”

You gain the Spell Substitution Arcane Thesis for free and can choose one additional Arcane Thesis.

Arcane Focus Spells

Protective Ward Focus 1 Uncommon Abjuration Wizard
Cast Single Action somatic
Range: 60 feet Targets: 1 creature
Duration sustained up to 1 minute

You place a shimmering aura of protective magic around a target. The target gains a +1 status bonus to AC and damage resistance to magical attacks equal to the spell level. Each time you Sustain the Spell, you maintain the ward around the creature.

Heightened (+2): Increase the number of targets by 1.

Augment Summoning Focus 1 Uncommon Conjuration Wizard
Cast Free Action verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 creature you summoned
You augment the abilities of a summoned creature. The target gains a +1 status bonus to all checks (this also applies to the creature's DCs, including its AC and damage) for the duration of its summoning, up to 1 minute.

Heightened (+4): Increase the status bonus by +1.

Diviner's Sight Focus 1 Uncommon Concentrate Divination Fortune Wizard
Cast Reaction verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 willing living creature
Duration the triggering saving throw or skill check.

You glimpse into the target's future. Roll a d20; when the target attempts a non-secret saving throw or skill check, it can use the number you rolled instead of rolling, and the spell ends. Casting it again ends any active diviner's sight you have cast, as well as any active diviner's sight on the target.

Heightened (+4): Roll an additional d20 as your glimpse into the future allows you to better assess how best to influence events.

Force Bolt Focus 1 Uncommon Evocation Force Wizard
Cast Single Action somatic
Range 120 feet; Targets 1 creature or object

You fire an unerring dart of force from your fingertips. It automatically hits and deals 1d6+1 force damage to the target.

Heightened (+2) The damage increases by 1d6+1.

Call of the Grave Focus 1 Uncommon Arcane Attack Necromancy Wizard
Cast One Action somatic
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 living creature

You fire a ray of sickening energy. Make a spell attack roll.

Critical Success The target becomes sickened 2 and slowed 1 as long as it's sickened.

Success The target becomes sickened 1.

Failure The target is unaffected.

Heightened (+2): 1d4 negative damage. Double damage on critical.

Physical Boost Focus 1 Uncommon Transmutation Wizard
Cast Single Action verbal
Range 60 feet; Targets 1 living creature
Duration until the end of the target's next turn

You temporarily improve the target's physique. The target gains a +2 status bonus to the next Acrobatics check, Athletics check, Fortitude save, or Reflex save it attempts.

Heightened (+4): Increase the bonus by +1.

Familiars seem like a forgotten class ability in PF2. I have player who likes to play witches. He has played two witches so far and neither one uses their familiar for anything. It's like a wasted ability.

He spent some feats to obtain a faerie dragon, tried to use its breath weapon once, the creature succeeded on its save, and he decided there was no point wasting actions using the familiar again. He doesn't even place it as a pawn on the board any longer because he never uses it.

No one in any of our games even thinks about familiars. They seem completely useless. Casters don't often build up stealth. The familiar doesn't get improved stealth on its own. Monsters have high perceptions and will likely see any creature that doesn't have a higher stealth. So they are fairly useless for scouting save for perhaps an imp that can turn invisible.

So what do your players do with familiars? Are they in the game for no reason? Their hit points are so low that one AoE hit and they usually die at higher level. Not sure how to protect them or what use they have. Love to hear what people are using them for and how you keep them alive at higher level.

The Grikkitog is this nightmarish creature that implants itself in stone and brings the stone to life as a weapon.

How do you run it? Do you make the players roll the DC 41 perception check to find the location where it implanted its core while it attacks in a 120 foot radius wherever there is stone? Or do you make it so the core is obviously visible once it starts attacking?

It seems that this creature once implanted would be able attack in a 120 foot radius wherever there is stone and the players could not attack the main creature until they found it with a DC 41 perception check.

This makes the creature extremely dangerous, especially with its Barbed Maw ability that holds whatever it hits in place.

I would love to know what other DMs experience is running this creature. I've run it one time before and it really demoralized the group. It took them some lucky rolls to find the main core.

I could not customize the eidolon within the PF2 balanced math and make it as interesting as PF1. I gave it a try for a few iterations, but the math is too tight. You won't get much variation. I'll leave that up to them.

I'll list what I think the class needs at the moment:

1. Summoning Font: I think the class needs a summoning font up to 10th level. Anything less than 10th level summons will be ineffective against the highest level enemies. Hopefully this will be included with Master Summoner option. The summoning font will need an accuracy boost. Somewhere around +2 to +3.

2. I would prefer a separate eidolon and summoner, but if not possible then some way to sever the link and still be standing if the summoner takes enough damage to take it to 0 or lower. Maybe you can't re-summon your eidolon for a number of rounds equal to its wounded condition or something like that.

3. This is how I think Manifest Eidolon should work which makes it the equivalent of drawing a weapon and having 2 actions to do something:

MANIFEST EIDOLON [three-actions] CONCENTRATE CONJURATION MAGICAL MANIPULATE SUMMONER TELEPORTATION
Your eidolon appears within 30 feet of you. If your eidolon was already manifested, choose whether to unmanifest them or teleport them to an open space within 30 feet. When you manifest your eidolon, it can use 2 actions.

4. The misfortune effect of rolling twice and taking the worse result has to be fixed. Disadvantage on saves for damaging attacks can be devastating. You should not have to roll twice and take the worst roll increasing your chances of a failure or critical failure.

5. Apex items and skill feats need to be worked into the eidolon.

6. I think the stat array for the eidolon should allow for a maxed stat at 24 like a player character. It is currently maxed at 20. Given the eidolon is the focus of your offense, it should be able to get a 24 stat like a PC.

I would prefer a stat array myself with +1 boosts without normal PC limitations, just to eliminate the odd of feeling of a useless stat increase at lvl 20. Or start with an odd stat array like 17, 17, 17, 10, 12, 10.

7.Visual Manifestation like this instead of sigils: The link between you and your eidolon has a visible manifestation on each of your bodies. This can be anything from flaming eyes if you summon a fire elemental, the symbol of your deity blazing with holy light if summoning an angel, your eyes crackling with electricity if summoning a blue dragon, and so on. You determine the visible manifestation when you choose your eidolon and its association. This visible manifestation cannot be hidden while your eidolon is active. It is clear to any intelligent enemy that this visible manifestation is a link to your eidolon.

8. More action flexibility including at least one independent action for the eidolon.

These are my current recommendations for this iteration of the summoner.

My concerns are:

1. 4 slots doesn't seem like enough casting. I certainly hope this isn't was is intended to be used for summoning as it will be far too weak to be useful in most combats.

2. The overly generic nature of the eidolons really feels lacking. It would be nice if the customization chain with symbiosis and transcendence added a little bit more to each eidolon to make them feel more like the creatures they emulate. Flesh them out a bit more as they increase.

3. If there is not a plan to allow summoners to use summoned creatures to support the eidolon with up to lvl 10 summons, then I hope their damage gets boosted. Because their damage is on the low end with using boost eidolon and that isn't a good feeling at all to use 4 actions to boost and attack doing low damage than other comparable martials with weak cantrips, shared MAP, and even weaker agile options further lowering damage.

A balanced summoner is a priority that we all understand, but a summoner that does lower end damage won't be very attractive or fun.

That's all I've been able to figure out with this version of the summoner. I hope they can spruce it up with all the feedback and make it more interesting, effective, and competitive against other class options before release.

I witnessed Scared to Death used against lower level monsters and it is devastating. Much better at killing things than a spell for 1 action.

The high charisma paladin at lvl 16 was able to annihilate some level 13 elite Calikangs with ease using Scare to Death.

16th level + 5 charisma + 8 Legendary Charisma + 2 Circumstance intimidating Prowess +2 item Demon mask = +33 Intimidation.

Will save Elite Calikangs +22.

9 or better on dice roll a critical success on intimidation.

DC 43 Fortitude save or die.

+25 fortitude save elite Calikangs.

So a skill is far better than magic at killing things than a spell like finger of death. That seems odd.

Anyone have experience with this skill feat?

What I'm seeing at lvl 20 with a fully developed intimidate character, you could Scare to Death balors. Your Intimidate skill would be +39 against a DC 44. So on a 15 or better you can Scare to Death a Balor and force them to make a DC 49 Fort save or die. They have a 45% chance of outright dying.

Pretty nasty. Much more dangerous than a spell.

I rewrote the eidolon ability and added some new functionality. Give it a read and let me know any issues or what you think. I modified it a bit conceptually and mechanically.

Eidolon: You have learned to summon and form the essence of another plane into a formidable creature known as an eidolon. You use your life force as a conduit to manifest the eidolon into the mortal world. An eidolon is a being formed of ephemeral essences of another plane and given life through its link to your spirit, mind, and body. It’s appearance, personality, and values are a reflection of your own view of the type of bond you have with the creature and the nature of the plane you summoned it from.

Choose what type of eidolon you have from the options beginning on page 18. In this playtest, the options available (and the spellcasting tradition each option grants you) are angel (divine), beast (primal), devotion phantom (occult), and dragon (arcane). When you choose your eidolon, you also determine their appearance and general form within the parameters for that particular type of eidolon. Once you establish your eidolon’s type and general appearance, these features can’t later be changed.

The link between you and your eidolon has a visible manifestation on each of your bodies. This can be anything from flaming eyes if you summon a fire elemental, the symbol of your deity blazing with holy light if summoning an angel, your eyes crackling with electricity if summoning a blue dragon, and so on. You determine the visible manifestation when you choose your eidolon and its association. This visible manifestation cannot be hidden while your eidolon is active. It is clear to any intelligent enemy that this visible manifestation is a link to your eidolon.

Your eidolon is no mere minion; the two of you share the same life force and have a magically infused bond. When you manifest the eidolon, your actions are reduced to two and your eidolon gains two actions as it is imbued with a portion of sentience from you. Your eidolon shares your hit point pool but gains temporary hit points equal to its level times its Constitution modifier that cannot be healed when it manifests. When these temporary hit points are reduced to 0, it draws from your shared life force for continued existence. Each round, either you or your eidolon can use your reaction.

Damage taken by either you or the eidolon once its temporary hit points are gone reduces your Hit Points, while healing either of you restores your Hit Points (but not temporary hit points). Due to the nature of your shared lifeforce, area damage spells or effects or damaging spells or effects that attack multiple targets within a given range like Horrid wilting affect you and your eidolon only once. When you and your eidolon are caught in an area effect that would heal or damage you both, only the greater amount of healing or damage applies. The summoner can choose to save or have the eidolon save, but must accept the result once chosen. The summoner and eidolon do not have to save twice against a spell or magical damage effect that targets them both. Physical or weapon attacks that target individuals treat the eidolon and summoner as individual creatures as do effects that cause other types of conditions.

If you are able to rest for 10 minutes and are healed back to full hit points, your eidolon regains their temporary hit points.

This life link doubles as a conduit that allows you to manifest your eidolon in this world. You gain the Manifest Eidolon activity, allowing you to make your eidolon appear at your side.

MANIFEST EIDOLON [three-actions] CONCENTRATE CONJURATION MAGICAL MANIPULATE SUMMONER TELEPORTATION

Your eidolon appears within 30 feet of you. If your eidolon was already manifested, choose whether to unmanifest them or teleport them to an open space within 30 feet. When you first manifest your eidolon, it can use its 2 actions.

Special This action has the trait matching your eidolon’s tradition (arcane, divine, occult, or primal).

Your eidolon doesn’t have the summoned or minion trait, but the conduit that allows them to manifest is also a tether between you. They must remain within 100 feet of you at all times and can’t willingly go beyond that limit. If forced beyond this distance, or if you’re reduced to 0 Hit Points, your eidolon’s physical form dissolves, and you need to use Manifest Eidolon to manifest them again.

Your connection also allows you to communicate with your eidolon telepathically at all times, even when they aren’t manifested. This ability lets you coordinate your actions with your eidolon to accomplish more than either of you could alone. You gain the Act Together and Share Senses actions.

ACT TOGETHER [one-action] SUMMONER TANDEM

Frequency once per round

You or your eidolon can grant the other an action. You choose which of you gains the action. This action is added to your action pool at the start of your round and the actions can be used individually or as part of a multiple action ability.

SHARE SENSES [one-action] CONCENTRATE DIVINATION MAGICAL SUMMONER

Requirements Your eidolon is manifested.

You project your senses into your eidolon. When you do, you lose all sensory information from your own body but can sense through your eidolon’s body for up to 1 minute. You can Dismiss this effect.

Special Your eidolon can also use this action to project their senses into your body.

While your eidolon can’t wear or use magic items except for companion items that specifically mention that they work for eidolons, their connection to you means they benefit from certain items once you invest in those items. Your eidolon gains item bonuses to Perception and skills from any magical items you’ve invested, as well as the benefits of the potency and resilient runes on your armor or the item bonuses of any bracers of armor you’ve invested. Your eidolon benefits from the potency, striking, and property runes on your handwraps of mighty blows, and you can Invest a single magic weapon to share the benefits of those runes from the weapon as well, even though you normally can’t Invest a magic weapon. Your eidolon gains the ability bonus increase gained from an invested apex item.

Your eidolon can benefit from any spells that have only you as the target like true strike or fire shield which activate on them if within the 100 foot range. You can target invisible creatures if either you or your eidolon have abilities or spells like see invisibility or true seeing active if you or the eidolon can also see the target.

Your eidolon gains the benefits of all of your skill feats it meets the prerequisites for and its form allows it to use.

Whoever made the PF2 druid made a super fun, versatile, and powerful class. The druid in PF1 was a good class, but I didn't find it all that interesting or fun to play. It was much easier to build a crazy damage caster with a wizard or sorcerer. The druid had some cool elements, but shapechanging and druid orders overall didn't seem that memorable. Over the years maybe one player has played a high level druid in my groups.

But man, this PF2 druid is so much fun. They nuke hard. They have great order abilities. Their feats are worth taking. They can heal. They do a lot.

Even tonight I launched a chain lightning against 8 targets with the following result rolling 79 damage: 2 successes, 5 fails, and a critical fail doing 631 damage. Then next 2 rounds turned into a blue dragon, flew up and breath weaponed two targets for another 82 points. Total damage in 3 or 4 rounds of combat at lvl 12 was 700 damage. She obliterated the encounter almost alone.

The druid has been performing really, really well over the course of 3 and 1/3 books in the Extinction Curse AP. The druid is the most fun class I've played to date in PF2. So much versatility and power. You can really build a monster druid.

Whoever designed the druid or the team that did, kudos to you. You made the druid super fun on top of being powerful. They play great in so many ways.

I'm wondering what people envision the summoner doing from round to round in combat? What does three or four rounds look like in your mind?

Average fight in PF2 seems to be 4 to 8 rounds. What do your rounds look like in the mind's eye? What's our damage source? What kind of actions are you taking?

My particular group is focused heavily on combat. I know combat is the primary focus of these types of games with some exceptions for those who enjoy non-combat elements. I'd like to hear how some of you rate the classes in battle after a year of playing.

Barbarian: This class starts off rough. You are almost always pretty easy to hit and crit, especially if Giant Instinct. But boy, you hit like a mack truck. If you get going with a string of good rolls, the barbarian starts mowing things down. Their crits are nuts, especially if using a greatpick.

You start to be able to absorb damage a little better once you get renewed vigor, which makes you more durable. If you're fighting creatures that are affected by your damage resistance, you do even better.

Barbarian is a very fun and powerful class. I put them on the upper end of the power scale with damage and abilities that scale very well.

Rogue: This class stays good from start to end. Damage scales very well. Tons of useful feats. You are the absolute master of skills. You can scout. You can clear hazards. You work in tandem with your party to rip things apart in combat. The rogue has been returned to it's pre-3rd edition glory.

Both the Ruffian and Thief are worthwhile. Either one performs at a high level.

Champion: Most annoying class to DM of all the classes. Hard to kill. Makes attacking anyone but them very costly. Not the highest damage, though with a good weapon very solid. Very powerful class in the group dynamic. Thematically cool. Overall Champion is an impressive class with powerful defensive capabilities that make them the best tank for a group.

Ranger: Ranger is a fun class. Really captures the old edition archer or two-weapon style specialist. Flurry and Precision are both great for combat. I think they are the best switchhitting class in the game given it takes one low level feat to be good at ranged or melee with action economy.

Good perception, reflex saves, and can be stealthy. They also can access an animal companion for a reasonable feat cost or group improvement abilities that are both useful.

Ranger archer or two-weapon fighter both feel like powerful, worthwhile options to play. They get better as your weapons and abilities scale up.

Fighter: Best version of the fighter I've seen in years. Defensive saves much better than in 3E/PF1. They truly are the best at fighting. The extra accuracy is meaningful and powerful. They are not the most interesting class in terms of feats and abilities, but the chassis is very well done if you want to make a powerful martial or a multiclass of some kind.

Fighter is very solid and effective that does good damage that scales well as their weapons improve.

Monk: Thematically interesting. The most versatile of the martial classes. Excellent mobility and defenses. On the low end of the damage scale for martials. Ki Powers don't scale well for damage. Makes them feel a bit lacking in a group environment as they do very standard damage without anything like increased accuracy to offset the lack of substantial damage increases. Monk feats are attractive and interesting, but I'm still not sure how to build one.

Monk feels very overshadowed in combat effectiveness in groups with other martials. Perhaps the one monk attempt hasn't found an optimal build, but in a party with a fighter and rogue the monk felt weak.

Swashbuckler: This class is very interesting. It's more active than most martial classes often requiring a non-combat roll during each round to power finishers. The swashbuckler is more defensive than most martials as well. Their AC tends to be higher than most of the other damage focused martials. They can get the benefits of a shield with Dueling Parry eventually having this every round from a stance. Their finisher damage can be quite high, especially if they crit.

Wit is a very good style. It allows a Swashbuckler to attack will saves to recover Panache as well as Tumble Through. The use Bon Mot to attack will sets up other casters with access to will save spells such as occult and arcane casters.

I'm not completely sure how to rate the Swashbuckler as bad rolls on Panache recovery or a finisher attack can lead to some bad rounds, just as good rolls can lead to a stellar round. It can be a swingy class. I would say somewhere above monk for damage, but not as consistent a damage dealer as most of the other martials.

Don't have enough info on the investigator to judge it. I'll rate the casters in the next post.

Quote from Mark Seifter: "I am pondering changing to a state where Act Together is a variable action activity (one to three actions), where one of the two characters can use all the actions, and the other one does a single action. So for instance, Act Together for three actions, the summoner casts summon animal, and the eidolon Strikes once. This would also allow Summoner two-action-spell via Act Together while eidolon Strides, then eidolon Strikes, so it increases flexibility significantly. from this thread Mark Seifter idea for summoner in this thread.

If they added a Divine Font-like ability for summons, this change would be absolutely awesome. Then you would be able to fight for nearly every battle with 2 summoned creatures avoiding individual MAP due to using a minion where MAP was already worked into the lower capability of the creature. With flanking that would close the gap some as would the damage boost from boost eidolon applying to the summoned creature as well.

With the reduced action from boosting and the reduced ability to hit of Summoned creature, this would likely balance out damage overall while allowing you to become the best at utilizing summoned creatures.

I'm going to play some with this idea. I really like this idea as it would make the summoner conceptually stronger if it can use summoned creatures in conjunction with an eidolon to boost overall damage to levels roughly equal with other powerful martial classes and it would increase the value of certain eidolon feats that were otherwise overlooked.

Eidolon’s designed like animal companion.

Eidolon Trait: The summoner can spend 1 action to give the eidolon 2 actions or 2 actions to give the Eidolon 3 actions.

BOOST EIDOLON CANTRIP 1 UNCOMMON CANTRIP EVOCATION SUMMONER. Cast [one-action] verbal. Range 100 feet; Targets your eidolon. Duration 1 round

You channel magical power into your eidolon through the link between you and your eidolon and boost the power of your eidolon’s attacks. You gain one of the following effects:

Add one 1d4 damage of the same type as its physical attacks and a +1 status bonus to hit.

3rd level: You may instead add 1d4 acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage to its physical attacks.

5th level: You may instead add force, positive, or negative damage to its physical attacks. If you worship a deity you may add an alignment component to its physical attacks that matches the alignment components of your deity.

7th: Increase the damage you can add to 2d4.

9th: You may make the eidolon’s physical attacks hit as silver, cold iron, or adamantine instead of adding damage to the physical attacks. You must possess at least a low-grade piece of the appropriate material as a material component to channel this power into the eidolon’s attacks.

Eidolons: 10 hit points per level with the summoner gaining 6 per level.

Celestial Warrior: Your companion is a celestial warrior who has agreed to serve you from the realms of good.

Size Medium

Melee Single Action fist or weapon, Damage 1d8 choose type of weapon or attack

Secondary Attack Fist, shield, or weapon 1d6 damage bludgeoning

Might Add in some customization to make the shield functional, so the eidolon can raise it with one it's actions.

Str +3, Dex +3, Con +3, Int +0, Wis +3, Cha +2

Note: Higher mental stats fitting for a celestial being. Mental stats for the eidolon to do not hurt combat balance, while showing meaningful differences between a fairly mindless creature like an elemental and a highly intelligent creature like a celestial.

Hit Points 8

Skill Diplomacy, Religion

Associated Spellcasting: Divine

Senses Darkvision

Speed 30 feet, fly 30 feet

Movement: If movement is ok for an animal companion, it should be fine for an eidolon.

Starting Power: Hallowed Strikes. Cast divine lance as a cantrip at will.

Advanced Power: Celestial Aura: Operates like bless.

Greater Power: Divine Power: Cast heal, divine decree, divine wrath, or divine aura once per day.

Weakness evil 5. Weakness evil 10 at 12th level.

Why this system?

1. Creature feels like a real independent celestial creature.

2. Boost Eidolon feels like you get better at boosting it to attack. You can vary the damage and attack weaknesses giving you a good reason to recall knowledge or use your eidolon in a tactical manner with real options as you level. It is more optional than required as your eidolon already does decent damage with its base die of damage.

3. The Eidolon trait gives you to option to increase it's attacks by spending more of your option while still allowing it to act somewhat independently.

This is direction I would prefer to see and am working on myself. I want to see how it compares in capability to other classes. I'm betting it brings them to the slightly stronger end of damage more like a barbarian, rogue, or flurry ranger. I think that is more the right place for a summoner than a low damage monk.

How do you find secondary casters to help with rituals? What are the options?

Hire them? Or is it expected you use other party members? How do you get rituals to work if the party doesn't have the necessary skills?

I've been thinking about why this is important as a player of many summoners. Why am I so attached to a separate hit point pool as a summoner? I'm going to explain my conclusions:

1. Doesn't feel like a separate creature with shared hit point pool: A shared hit point pool makes the eidolon and summoner feel like a single creature. You don't feel like you're summoning a unique and powerful creature from another plane.

This makes it so the class called summoner doesn't actually summon a creature. An animal companion has a separate hit point pool and feels like a unique creature. A summoned monster from a spell feels like a summoned creature as it is truly a separate creature with its own stats and abilities it uses at your command.

The eidolon in its current state feels like a fancy weapon you control from afar that is a manifestation of your will and not a summoned creature.

Suffice it to say you aren't really summoning given how it works right now. You're manifesting a creature of your will. That is not the summoner class. Not sure why Paizo would call it a summoner if you're not actually summoning a creature from another plane.

2. Can't sacrifice itself for the summoner or shield it from damage: A big reason you summon creatures is to have them take the hits for you. The PF1 eidolon was a creature the summoner bound and sent into battle that was expendable and could take the hits in battle against his enemies.

One of the key conceptual abilities of a summoner is summoning a powerful creature that acts at your command in battle. Though an eidolon isn't as expendable as a summon spell creature, you should be able to order it to stand and die if necessary without killing yourself doing so.

The shared hit point pool works great for the synthesist as he is summoning a creature around him. The synthestis truly is bound to the creature he summons.

But it does not work well for a true summoner who wants to feel like he is summoning a distinctly separate creature he can do what he wants with up to and including ordering it to sacrifice itself to help his party or while he runs from battle.

It's hard to call a class a summoner when the thing he "summons" is not a distinctly separate summoned creature. I feel a combined hit point pull is not conceptually fitting for a class called the summoner.

I feel the Paizo developers should think hard about what summoning means and what a summoned creature is supposed to be like. They have captured what a summoned creature is with summon monster spells. I would hope they would conceptually bring that element to the summoner's eidolon as it is supposed to be a truly formidable SUMMONED combatant that is a separate and distinct creature from the summoner. It is the powerful, combat capable form of a summoned creature that can fight on par with level appropriate enemies versus the weaker summon monster creatures who are supposed to do a little damage and not much else.

How does this work with a feat like Primal Evolution or Divine Evolution that provides a single spell slot you can use to cast a set spell like heal or summon animal at your highest level?