Grognardy Dangerfield's page

yeap, the ol bumpin uglies

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PT.B=The Devil wrote:

Andostre wrote:

This morning when I'm carrying three bags and heading to the escalator on my way up to the office, and some dude carrying nothing but his phone which he's staring into while oblivious to everything else reaches the escalator just before me and then stops, preventing me from climbing up at my own pace.

As a non-cellphone owner this drives me crazy. Quite frustrating when folks block an aisle at the grocery store, block a walking path, or block anything in general. The worst part, if you politely ask them to move they just look at you like you just insulted their mother.

I feel the same way when a group of people walk out a door and just stop to talk to each other. Right in front of the doorway. Completely technology free rudeness.

Yeap, that happens too. I'm not sure if large segments of the pop have lost their sense of public space and function, or maybe they just never had any?

I think there are about 5 threads on this topic.

We just need someone to comment, "I think 5E did this really well..." and we'll be set.

Nobody thinks that though...

Autotune.

You got a lot more problems than XP, OP. +1/level will ensure that more than 2 levels behind will be suicide to adventure with a higher level party.

Just another feature with no respect I tell ya.

Awfully hard to (optionally) roll stats without ability scores.

One of the hangups here is how D&D has aged. Early days it was to try and simulate lord of the rings and Conan. Ordinary adventurers taking on extraordinary things and somehow winning. You beat your challenges by using your strengths and smarts, not because you are just as capable as your foes.

Fast forward a few decades and folks want more octane in their fantasy. They dont just want to fight awesome monsters and wizards, they want to be awesome monsters and wizards. A paradigm shift in the genre and hobby community. This is all generality of course, the nuances are not important; to me anyways.

Slowly the ability score has become a more mechanical tool and less a descriptive one. Iconic elements like ability score generation, improvement, and drain have become really complex in the 3E era. PF2 is an attempt to simplify the mechanic while giving a nod to nostalgia.

Another hang up is rulings over rules. In early days it was expected that the GM would arbitrate situations. There was not piles of rules books to try provide mechanical representation on everything. Some folks got tired of bad GMs and wanted a system to protect them from bad rulings. So enters the rules heavy editions. Along with them came all sorts of odd situations where folks wanted to be able to trip snakes and kill fire elementals with fire. Also, many folks want to be able to be a ninja in full plate.

Fast forward a bit and now design seems to be one foot in each ruling philosophy camp. It gets really confusing because the bridge in philosophies can be real immersion killing for some. Too connected to reality for others.

For that old school feel I'd point int he direction of OSR. There are lots of folks that want to keep that feel of yesterday rockin. I wouldnt wait and hope for modern design to go backwords but YMMV.

GameDesignerDM wrote:

Edymnion wrote:

It was pointless as anything but a vestigial holdover from rolling for stats.

What would you propose for groups (like mine) who only ever roll for stats? Just have a chart that if you roll an 18, your ability... score(?) is a +4? There's no real point to getting rid of them, and it seems like a weird complaint to have.

Honestly, if people don't understand that 3-18 for Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha is fundamental to the definition of D&D and its descendants, they shouldn't poke holes in other people's design.

I know right? They got optional rolling in the rulebook! You gotta love the respect.

Edymnion wrote:

Quote:

3. There are still ability scores. Just because they only added the bonus doesn't mean they just don't exist. They probably just realized it wasn't needed for monsters and was just wasting space on the paper.

Again, why?

They serve no purpose. Nothing uses them. EVERYTHING is based on the modifiers. Nowhere I see right away has the raw score being used. Its a leftover from earlier days that should have been cut entirely.

Could not disagree more.

Not listing the ability score is extremely jarring and counter-intuitive. The bonus is a function of the ability score, but it isn't the actual ability score. The barbarian has a Strength of 18, he doesn't have a Strength of +4.

Though oddly nothing will ever change that 18 in strength except level bumps. No traps, poisons, or spells will change that number. Those things will change the modifier check though.

Ability score is only in the game so grogs like us can feel more at ease. Thats some respect I tell ya!

Grognardy Dangerfield wrote:

I hope not. I like a tight resource attrition work day in my TTRPG.

Short rests don't remove resource attrition. What they do is make multiple resource windows that different classes interact with differently.

For example, in 5e, a Warlock gets all their spells back on a short rest, but they only have 2 spell slots on levels 2-10. If you average 2 encounters between short rest opportunities, that's 1 spell per encounter. I played a warlock for 10 levels, and a couple times there were days where I had 4 encounters without a rest, short or long.

A GM can still have a very heavy hand in influencing the availability of rests, and resource management can become critical.

I hear ya but it doesn't look like there is any 5E warlocks in PF2 development and I hope it stays that way. Unlimited scaling cantrips, spell point pools, and skill feats just make short rest unnecessary in pf2.

I hope not. I like a tight resource attrition work day in my TTRPG.

A day without CE orcs, is like a day without sunshine...

I like Druidic being a druid only thing, but I understand class systems are rapidly going out of style.

I was kinda hoping that magic missile would no longer be an auto hit..

It wouldnt be magic missile then...

Ranged healing spells!?

Yes.

Wow. Modern players are just plain weird.

Rolling stats added flavor and rp challenge. The game wasn't about mechanics, and so things like random stats were just find as they added interesting wrinkles to characters.

Modern players don't like it because modern players don't rp. Not like the way rp was when the designers of d20 and earlier dnd played anyway. The difference isn't in what rules are used, but the place the rules have in the overall game.

Modern players place the rules front and center. Modern players view the rules as being the game instead of being a mere tool to make the game more fun.

The focus on rules and how that focus changes they way rules are used is the biggest factor in why random has such a bad rap. If the rules are the entirely of the game, then the rules also become the meterstick by which things are judged.

The old school players were not less advanced, nor less refined. They were quite literally playing an entirely different game, and I'm not talking about system either. A game with my old group using 3.5 would literally be a completely different game from modern players playing 3.5.

Yeap, oldschool has come a long way from chainmail days that were all about characters and story....oh wait.

Any chance of a PF funnel for PF2?

In my opinion, the only way to eliminate "dump stats" at all is to eliminate the ability for players to "choose" ability scores.

Roll up stats, build the best character you can think of for those stats, play that character, and if and when that character dies, roll up a new one.

From a fellow who has been playing for a while now, I just want to say that the game, as it is played, is very different from the one I played many years ago, and a fundamental component of that difference is that characters today are, in fact, "created" and there was a time when they were not. They were "rolled-up" and that, as I see it, is a very different thing indeed.

Yeap, and when we didnt like what we got, the character ran face first into every buzzsaw. Good times indeed. Choosing? No respect I tell ya.

Whats wrong with fighting-man, thief, and magic user?

You kids and your balance and point buy... Back in my day we rolled 3D6 in order and liked it. My characters were so poor, stupid, and ugly that Nilbogs gave them their prized possession and wiped its own memory! No respect I tell ya!

I collected bayblades and then UBIFUNKYs (utterly garbage product but gosh darn I love em) and Bakugan and all the while yu-gi-oh and Pokemon from there. Yet some how have no connection to the place emotionally.

I don't understand the words coming out of your post....

Clearly flustered by the lack of respect around here.

Damn straight! Combat was a failure state you were lucky to survive. It aint no fun unless the homies trip and impale themselves on their own weapons every single fight now is it???

So about chainmail coming from wargaming again.....

I Rox, as in, I-Rox-Z? Cool.

Dnd was designed for the story side of the spectrum.

I thought D&D came from Chainmail, which came from wargaming?

Last time I had Chinese dinner my fortune cookie said, "That wasn't chicken" no respect I tell ya!

Orville Redenbacher wrote:

What ive gathered so far is that Players and GMs should communicate about what they want out of their games and meet in the middle. Unless of course the player shows up with a drow noble, in which case, you promptly tell them to GTFO.

Actual question in a FR Facebook group for Adventurers League Play. Because apparently drow are now considered a standard race choice there.

"It says that one out of every 20 drow is a drow noble. Can I play a Drow Noble if I roll a nat 20?"

What is the difference in Drow with 5E? In 3E it was usually an indication the player wanted to be especially unique plus super powerful and basically ruin everyones fun.

He was also the kind of GM who described the environment saying "you walk around a plain. Ask me all you want". So we have to ask him if there were trees, houses, ruins, etc. If we didn't ask him if there was a house in front of us, all we knew was that we had hit an invisible wall. And we had to ask him specifically if there was a house in front of us. Asking him if there was something there was "too lazy".

I love these guys.....I read about a group that spent like 4 sessions trying to get through a maze. When the party finally made it the GM triumphantly announces, "the walls were only 3ft high and you could have simply stepped over them if you had asked about their height...." :)

Stuffy Grammarian wrote:

Grognardy Dangerfield wrote:

I understand that being too ridged can lead to being too inflexible. Though the trend seems to be towards such loose standards that its hard to find anything of passable quality anymore.

As your post illustrates.

You missed "yougins".

Also I wish I could afford nice formal clothes to wear.

you can buy mine ive been let go...

OK, here's one that baffles me, that seems to afflict Gen Xers and beyond:

We're interviewing people for a plush technical job: Pays roughly $80k/year, you get to work from home, good benefits, etc., etc.

So we get a candidate, and her resume has typos on it, and she shows up late to her own REMOTE interview! It's not like she can claim there were traffic issues, or she didn't know she'd need network connectivity, or whatever.

In my (non) generation, there were two simple rules of job-seeking:
(1) Typos in your resume? Into the trash it goes.
(2) Late for your interview? No deal.

I have absolutely noticed that candidates over 40 fall into the "no typos, right on time" variety, and those under 35 are definitely the, "Whatever. You know what I meant, and I was there no more than 10 minutes late. What's the big deal?" variety.

Really interesting when our job is for developing technical training, where a single typo can result in a massive system crash...

I've noticed this too. My perception has been that America is in an race to be as less formal as possible. My company had moved into Canada and when our partners came to HQ to meet us, they thought we were a bunch of stiff ass bankers. "It's not going to be fun working here!" Simply because we had a formal dress code. The reason was to stop slobs from wearing packer's jerseys and leggings as pants to work. (That just adds more fuel to my perception.)

This isn't just the yougins or about clothing either. I had a director for several years who would often use "are" to mean "our" in email communication (she is close to 50). I just left a meeting discussing writing annual reviews which included directors and their direct reports. The HR rep put the directors on the spot, "do you want written paragraphs and stories, or just a list of bullet points?" There was an overwhelming cry of "bullets!!!" they didn't even say points.... People hate work so much they don't even want to complete sentences or spell out words!

I understand that being too ridged can lead to being too inflexible. Though the trend seems to be towards such loose standards that its hard to find anything of passable quality anymore. /shrug

Probably as close to the "aristocrats" as well get around here.......

Let me tell you about my new pet kobold though named Osirion. He leaves a pyramid in every room.....

2016 has been pure bol locks on many levels. Though this one is about pathfinder so here goes;

-As GM, longtime group on definite hiatus due to real life stuff. Mummy Mask AP stopped at mid-point.

-As player, second longtime group GM got burned out on Jade Regent AP midway and we stopped indefinitely to play DCC. (Fun for a few nights, but is getting extremely long in the tooth at this point)

Sorry to be a downer but 2016 has been rubbish.

For 2017;
-I'm hoping to get first group back together to pick up where we left off in Mummy Mask.

-Going to ask second group if they want me to run Iron Gods because I cant take anymore DCC.

You tell em darklighthitomi; you tell em!

The longer you have played, the more role you become......

Maybe epic level

DO NOT TOUCH MA RANGER!!

We were so ugly as adventurers back in my day. One time we faced a Nilbog and it gave us its treasure and wiped its own memory. No respect.

Dice in my day were soft plastic and the sides were prone to ware. In an effort to preserve our cheap box set dice, my wife and I agreed to roll them only after having sex. I havent rolled mine in years, and she rolls hers at least three times a day......no respect i tell ya!

I dont get you kids and dumping these days...3D6 down the line gets no respect I tell ya!

I think the Paladin went wrong and lost its respect when it stopped being a prestige class.

Grognardy Dangerfield wrote:

Sure, my favorite is Third Imperium for the Traveller system. A system I say needs a lot more respect.

I think the thread refers specifically to fantasy settings in the title, or I'd have suggested the 2300AD Traveller variant. I love the Third Imperium in some ways, but it often feels like it's too big and too well known for the players to matter in many parts. 2300AD has more of the 'frontier explorer' feel that I rather prefer.

Cant get more frontier than the Spinward Marches. Though I know 2300AD has its fans.

Sure, my favorite is Third Imperium for the Traveller system. A system I say needs a lot more respect.

Enough about you kids and your forgettable realms, when is Blackmoor or greyhawk getting their respect???

That said, I still would never play a martial character, being stuck in suckland while the casters laugh and solve every problem/destroy every enemy just doesn't seem like fun to me personally....

Listen to you kids and your unearned magic. In my day, nobody laughed at the fighting man. Sure magic users had incredible power, but we didnt worry about it because they were always murdered by a mundane fighting men before getting any of it. The fighting man gets no respect I tell ya!

...Captain Yesterday, the Superman of Tomorrow!

Incidentally, Superman is an example of a non-anime character who exhibits many qualities that are frequently decried on this website as being "too anime." Laser vision and the ability to punch planets are both frequently cited as examples of something that would be "too anime." Superman, the Man of Tomorrow, is not anime, though, given his American origin and the fact that he is not (usually) drawn in an anime-esk style.

Superman falls under "too supers"

As for a guy who gimps his character deliberately for ANY reason... not sure if there is a specific name for it beyond "problem player"

Jabroni?

Back in my day, if you had to make an edit you had to use white out. We called it manual correct. No respect I tell ya...