Gazragar's page

So I had an interesting conflict come up in a game I played last night, in which the Cavalier had the Impressive Mount dedication feat (https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=53), making his mount mature and unlocking "During an encounter, even if you don't use the Command an Animal action, your animal companion can still use 1 action on your turn to Stride or Strike."

The issue came up when someone else at the table pointed out the Mounted Combat rules (https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=463) - TL;DR, if you don't command a mount, your mount can't act.
"You must use the Command an Animal action to get your mount to spend its actions. If you don’t, the animal wastes its actions. If you have the Ride general feat, you succeed automatically when you Command an Animal that’s your mount.
For example, if you are mounted on a horse and you make three attacks, your horse would remain stationary since you didn’t command it. If you instead spent your first action to Command an Animal and succeeded, you could get your mount to Stride. You could spend your next action to attack or to command the horse to attack, but not both."

So there's the question - which rule overrides which, given the context? It seems rather odd that such a Feat would get a portion of it hampered just by virtue of being in the saddle rather than next to the animal, but it could also be argued that you still get the intrinsic benefit of having a hardier steed.

Honestly, if you are encountering a GM who isn't allowing this, and they are unwilling to listen to reason, escalate the issue to the people above them, and eventually you'll get everyone on the same page.

Er, isn't allowing what, exactly? As I said, my concern is that the Feat, as written, says: "You spend time teaching an animal to do a certain action. You can either select a basic action the animal already knows how to do (typically those listed in the Command an Animal action) or attempt to teach the animal a new basic action", and Command an Animal mentions Leap, Seek, Stand, Stride, and Strike explicitly as common knowledge actions.

The Basic Actions they don't know, according to this list - https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx - are:
Aid (requires their being Trained+ in a skill, so likely disallowed due to "It’s usually impossible to teach an animal a trick that uses critical thinking.")
Crawl
Drop Prone
Escape
Interact (limited viability, and a lot of GMs might just allow that out-of-hand depending on the animal)
Invest An Item (see Aid)
Ready
Release
Sense Motive (again, see Aid)
Step
Take Cover

None of which strike me as... particularly useful to know, outside of Step to not provoke an AOO, but since that's a lot less common in 2e, it's not as much of an issue.

And all this said, it would be nice if they issued some guidelines regarding that Feat for Society play, such as example DCs or examples of what types of "Tricks" an animal can learn beyond the core few.

I think the biggest benefit of the fest is in its ability to train animals that aren't your companion, and that not not have a purchase price. It's a pretty cool thing fir a character to be able to do, that does not translate well into society.

Which is all well and good... except the Bonded Animal feat explicitly states "Bonding with a new animal ends any previous bond you had. You can’t have both a bonded animal and an animal companion (though you can have both a bonded animal and a familiar)." Which kind of defeats the purpose of doing it with a Beastmaster build, which is what I plan on going for.

Nefreet wrote:

You cannot reasonably expect the Guide to lay out everything that's already been written in the Core Rulebook, can you?

7 days is the default. If Leadership wants to change the default, they can. They do not, however, need to confirm the default.

That's what the Core Rulebook is there for.

I'm not going to have this fight with you, nor do I think you're fairly characterizing what I'm saying. There's a world of difference between clarifying every ambiguous statement ever written in the Core Rulebook and adding a sentence acknowledging the very obvious question "Ask your GM question" that anyone would have about this particular downtime activity.

The Org Play team doesn't have to do anything. They could leave it as is; they could clarify it marginally in the Downtime section of the guide like I suggested; or they could say "You know what, this is too ambiguous and maybe isn't right for organized play so we're going to restrict it." We've obviously gone a year without it. I'm not trying to die on this hill and I'm not attacking them by pointing this out, so I don't think the Org play team needs you to white knight for them on this.

But to answer the OPs question, in the absence of any clarification the Train Animal feat and any background that grants are it are, at best, open for a lot of table variation and, at worst, completely useless.

Agreed with you on this one, as the CRB doesn't always reflect what is allowed in Society play - and that said, I'll likely swap to the Refugee background, as it grants similar benefits and a more useful Feat. Thanks for the input!

As a long-delayed update, I finally settled on the Mechanic idea, and just hit level 3 - which means I'm now deliberating on my second Feat (the first one was Advanced Melee Weapons Prof), and would appreciate advice with THAT now.

I was leaning towards Improved Unarmed Strike for the horns, but now that I'm realizing I took Advanced Melee, I may be rethinking that. That said, I could use a Mk 1 Mnemonic Editor to swap Advanced Melee Weapons out for it, but that'd still leave me with a Feat to pick yet.

Looks good and to anyone who thinks she needs bigger muscles. That does not say much about strength. Bodybuilders for example are not nesc. the strongest. They just have the muscle build after training for it and the usage of certain dietary supplements^^.

And if anyone thinks wiry people are not strong enough anyone remembers Bruce Lee for example^^?

And rereading this I kind of dread the Iconic Evolution of Seoni.

I mean if seeing part of her leg got someone to write about her being not "dressed right" I fear what kind of outfit she could get to not have page after page of discussion about it drowing out the interesting stuff about her and the scorcerer.

While true, Bruce Lee used either his bare hands or fast weaponry - I'm pretty sure his build would have been vastly different if he'd been using the sword of a Frost Giant :P.

And I was picturing more the "World's Strongest Man" competitor, (aka Zarya-like build) rather than the lean & mean build that bodybuilders go for in competitions.

Edit: Fixed to respond to the correct person.

I managed to get the Nuar boon for society play from a generous GM, and have yet to actually build the character fully.

So, as the title suggests - what suggestions would you all give for a good melee build?

My primary options are either a Blitz soldier or an Exocortex Mechanic - I'm open to further suggestions, and would appreciate some solid arguments for them. While "because it'd be cool!" is acceptable, it's also not a very substantial argument :P

Edit: Also, any buzz around maze cores suddenly becoming acceptable for Organized Play? That was part of my draw to the race to begin with, I'll admit

I have to admit, I wish she had a bit more muscle to her. It kind of makes sense that she'd be more pale, what with being a Northerner, but not so much the skinny, waifish look when she's hauling around the massive bastard sword.

Official Clarification: A "new character" is a Starfinder Society character with 0 XP. Unlike race boons, a Capstone boon CANNOT be removed with the pre-2nd level character rebuild.

Developer Logic: Capstone boons are intended to be something momentous for a new character. While I appreciate the joy of theory-crafting on GM babies, I don't necessarily want to see a bunch of characters running around with crazy capstones only for people to remove them with a rebuild and test them out on another character.

Basically, be sure that you want to apply this capstone onto a specific character. Choices matter :)

Now is this solely in regards to the Capstone boons, or does this extend to the Instructor boon as well? Presumably the latter, but clarification is always a good thing :P

The alchemist erratum isn't doing what we had hoped (we were trying to clarify that you definitely do get 8, since people weren't sure between 4 and 8). This will be reflected in the next errata update!

"We apologize for the fault in the rulebook. Those responsible for sacking those who have been sacked have just been sacked."

Incidentally, clarification on how Advanced Alchemy works (the pre-gen Alchemist confirmed for me that you CAN use it multiple times at the start of the day!) would be nice, as would the Alchemist's Tools requirement for using Quick Alchemy, as the aforementioned Level 1 pre-gen character simply doesn't have them. At all. And the Level 5 version has it stowed, which would defeat the purpose of requiring it for Quick Alchemy.

Gazragar wrote:

And unfortunately, the newly-released Errata shows that nope - we only get 4 starting formulas.

Mark said it was meant to clarify that you DO get 8, not 4. It seems that the clarification is going to need clarification.

"We apologise again for the fault in the rulebook. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked have been sacked."

So in the base handbook, Quick Alchemy states "You must have alchemist’s tools (see page 184), the formula of the alchemical item you’re creating, and a free hand."

Now, the Free Hand bit has been discussed before (e.g. the Alch Tools require 2 hands to use, so how do you have a free hand, etc.), but the reason I bring this up now is because I just downloaded the Pregenerated characters, and the Level 1 Alchemist simply doesn't have them. At all.

Was this an oversight on the pre-gen, are players using that sheet not expected to rely on Quick Alchemy at all, or are the Alchemist Tools requirement something that Paizo has re-thought? I ask partially because the tools are listed as "Stowed" on the Level 5 pre-gen character sheet, which would negate its usefulness for Quick Alchemy purposes.

Also, I will say it's nice to see that the Advanced Alchemy CAN be used multiple times at the start of the day, and that (somehow) doesn't require the use of Alchemist's Tools, so maybe it is deliberate? Either way, some clarification would be greatly appreciated.

AH they just clarified that in the blog.

It should be 8.

Can you link to that? Because the Updated PDF reads: "In the alchemist’s Quick Alchemy action, change “common alchemical item” to “alchemical item in your formula book”. In the Formula Book section, change “The formula book contains formulas for your choice of 4 common 1st-level alchemical items.” to “The formula book contains the formulas you gained from Alchemical Crafting.”

Because that reads as Alchemists getting 4 first-level formulas.

And unfortunately, the newly-released Errata shows that nope - we only get 4 starting formulas.

In the Formula Book section, change “The formula book contains formulas for your choice of 4 common 1st-level alchemical items.” to “The formula book contains the formulas you gained from Alchemical Crafting.”

So guess that's a firm answer, if nothing else.

And while looking into it, a question occurred to me. Does the big cat's "Special: Your cat deals 1d6 additional precision damage against a
flat-footed target" scale as it grows, or are the additional damage dice exclusively for the base unarmed strikes? I'm assuming the latter, but I figured it's worth asking, especially since the Rogue's Sneak Attack - which works similarly - DOES scale with leveling.

That said, it seems REALLY counter-intuitive that not only does the Work Together with the cat not include allies (which arguably makes sense, as rendering an enemy flat-footed for ALL attacks is arguably OP), it doesn't work for anyone EXCEPT the Ranger - not even the cat, whose special ability is dealing that extra 1d6 damage to flat-footed targets, is included for it.

Honestly, the "no item bonuses" seem like they mean PERMANENT bonuses, or ones that require the use of a Resonance Point - meaning that the Antidote, since it has no activation cost, could reasonably be done. But yeah, some additional clarity on that would be helpful.

Gazragar wrote:

Actually, upon closer reading this morning, it seems that bombs NEVER cost Resonance to use - it even says as much on page 359 (357 of the PDF).

"Bombs don’t need to be activated in the same way as other alchemical items, but drawing, preparing, and throwing a bomb takes one hand."

Meaning that, during down time, you could craft (or buy) a bunch of bombs and be able to use them whenever you like WITHOUT expending Resonance Points. That said, it also requires you to have a GM that will give you the downtime you need to do so.

an important note for Alchemists in specific...

ANYTHING you make during downtime does not have the infused trait. Meaning. they will not benefit from anything your class gives. no empower bomb etc.

The alchemical bombs worth crafting, and handing out to your friends and allies, or yourself, are things like Bottled Lightning or Ice Flasks, Tanglefoot bags. Craft for the effects, not the damage.

Yeah, I realized that later - the only way to change that is with a Feat you get at LEVEL 20! That's just... absurd.

As a side note, I’m unsure of the damage dice for Liquid Ice. The item entry lists 1d4; however, the Ranger Blog and the Hunter’s Snares imply it should be 1d8.

I think the 1d4 is right, as the Freezing Snare is a level 8 Uncommon item - so at the commensurate level, an infused Liquid Ice bomb would be dealing 3d4.

I wanted to bring up something I don't think anyone has pointed out.

The Level 17 Feat, "Alchemical Alacrity", is completely useless to anyone that DOESN'T get the level 4 "Enduring Alchemy" feat. Why?
Because AA reads: "When using the Quick Alchemy action, you can spend up to 3 Resonance Points to make up to three alchemical items as described in that action (1 per Resonance Point spent). These items need not be the same." But as we've definitely discussed, Quick Alchemy items fade by the START of your next turn - so you've just used 1 action of 3 to grab 3 items, of which you can only POSSIBLY use 2, short of an ally coming to take one off your hands.

What the hell, Paizo?

Beyond that, I was initially holding out hope regarding the bombs, as actually using them does NOT require the use of a Resonance Point... but it's functionally required because of the wording of the level 3 Feat "Empowered Bombs", which applies only to bombs you've crafted AND have the Infused trait. So much for the idea of crafting a bunch during downtime!

Right - there was confusion here, however for additional clarification, the sidebar on pg. 51 gives a sample 1st level Formula Book that shows 8 formulas.. Pg. 46 says you get a formula book with 4 common 1st level. Then on Page 45 says you get the 4 additional from the Alchemical Crafting Feat.

I wonder if the Formula book should be placed before the Advanced Alchemy paragraph. That should clear up any confusion.

Even worse because the wording of the text makes it sound as though those are just examples of items you COULD put in there regardless of amount - so yeah, they really do need to make that more explicit. Maybe just move it to the Formula Book section entirely and state unequivocally "You gain 4 formulas in addition to the Alchemy Crafting Feat's 4 formulas", or something along those lines.

Actually, upon closer reading this morning, it seems that bombs NEVER cost Resonance to use - it even says as much on page 359 (357 of the PDF).
"Bombs don’t need to be activated in the same way as other alchemical items, but drawing, preparing, and throwing a bomb takes one hand."

Meaning that, during down time, you could craft (or buy) a bunch of bombs and be able to use them whenever you like WITHOUT expending Resonance Points. That said, it also requires you to have a GM that will give you the downtime you need to do so.

It's the one DC outside of poisons which is affected by potent Alchemy feat, and poisons are nigh unusable with potent Alchemy due to it being up only for the round.

So...

It's actually even worse - "Potent Poisoner" is the name of the feat, and it applies ONLY to poisons.

Edit 1: Nevermind, you were looking at Powerful Alchemy, which still applies solely to Quick Alchemy items - but that said, what IS the Class DC for Alchemists? I can't recall reading it anywhere in the section!

Edit 2: Found the Class DC on page 43 is locked to your Key Ability, so presumably it matches your INT score alone - I'm guessing we're supposed to get magical items to push our INTs above 20 in that case, then?

Reading through the Empower Bombs section and cross-referencing with the actual bombs, it struck me as weird that the Thunderstone is stuck as a DC 15 Fortitude Save. Was this purposeful or just an oversight, as the other bombs with lasting effects are either the flat DC 20 check to resist, or can't be resisted at all (e.g. Liquid Ice and Bottled Lightning)?
Because that secondary effect would be nigh-useless by the time you hit level 10.