Bard died. Starting with a 25 point buy Level 6 Magus. RoTRL. However im overwhelmed with options.
Bladebound/Kensai? I love the flavor of the bladebound and the synergy of the Kensai archtype however all i see are Dervish Builds for some reason. Isnt the Falcata Better in every facet? Kensai gets you an exotic weapon why not utilize it.
Staff Magus + Card Magus = Gambit (ironically this was my original idea with arcane duelist bard however the feat cost and cost of harrow decks dissuaded me) This would be fun and they stack. I dont mind lobbing cards and hitting with quarterstaves but i appear to be missing a hand to make this worthwhile.
Straight NOVA magus? Shocking Grasp explosion damage?
Any of those Archtypes broken up?
This is one of those situations where i have too many attractive choices.
Hexcrafter, always hexcrafter, gives the magus longer legs so to speak as well as giving you access to all spells with the curse descriptor. Three good ones right out of the gate with that are the 0-level Brand, 1st Ill Omen, 2nd Blindness/Deafness. And your character can start with the fly hex, which alleviates a lot of mobility issues ground based characters can have.
Half-Elf or Tiefling are the races I'd say are the best.
Half elf can get you an exotic weapon prof off the bat, has good FCB (because gets elf human and half-elf ones as options), or instead of the weapon prof you can get a +2 to your will save allowing you to semi dump wis.
Tiefling is good for str based magi of all varieties because of armor or the pit feat that gives you +2 natural armor, covering one of the bigger weaknesses of a low level str-magi build. Even if you don't want to blow the first level feat the scaled skin alternate trait gives up two of your resistances for +1 natural armor. Considering you are starting at 6th though you only have one more level till you start stomping around in medium armor anyway.
Falcata is worse since the crit mutliplier for spells from spellstrike will always be x2, and it gives up crit range over rapier, scimmy, etc. If you are going strength based and your DM lets you get away with it, using longsword + the sword scion trait (give +1 trait bonus to hit with longswords), can be a decent 'patch' for the lower BAB of the magus, and as it is a trait bonus it stacks with Weapon Focus. This last option gives up the expanded crit range so I recommend it for frostbite magi more than nova magi because you need to hit your foes to stack the insane amount of Debuff on them.
Now there are going to be lots of differing opinions on weather or not Str or Dex builds are better, but for my thoughts Str wins out simply because magi are not awash in feats and dex builds have you using two just to become as offensively as effective of a str build out of the gate. Also str builds have the option of two handing their one hander for some extra oomph when not using spell combat.
Regards,
DRS
Hexcrafter is a lot of fun but will add all the hexes to further complicate your available options!
Mix it with a couple of levels of White Haired Witch and take the Frostbite route to be a super debuffer. Fatigued plus Entangled plus Shaken plus Grappled can really ruin a monsters day!
Prehensile Hair, Rime Spell, Enforcer, Bludgeoner, Final Embrace (constrict). Pump the hell out of your INT score and use Arcane Accuracy to never miss again!
The dervish builds are so popular because of the dex-synergy, high crit range of the scimitar and the fact that spell combat works well together with dervish dance. Crits with spellstrike are still only times two, so high crit ranges are generally better for magi.
As far as the cart magus goes, won't you be fine because of quarterstaff master? One hand quarterstaff, one hand card?
25 point means you can afford a STR magus.
16 14 14 14 10 10
With no racial adjustments, really solid stats.
16 16 14 16 10 8
With human racial after your one ability point from leveling up to 4.
Personally not a fan of Kensai or Bladebound, I've seen DMs really mess with a player who had an intelligent weapon. Dervish Dance is there because point buy is a thing and being able to buy in only two good stats is great for a class who only uses two and a half stats.
Hexcrafter is okay, It really depends on whether or not you find flight more important than spell recall, which I do not.
Straight Nova magus who spont. casts Shocking Grasp and recalls them is usually the most effective and versatile way to go, since you can prepare anything you want and essentially convert Arcane Points into burst damage with Heighten and Preferred Spells.
master_marshmallow wrote: 25 point means you can afford a STR magus.
16 14 14 14 10 10
With no racial adjustments, really solid stats.
16 16 14 16 10 8
With human racial after your one ability point from leveling up to 4.
Personally not a fan of Kensai or Bladebound, I've seen DMs really mess with a player who had an intelligent weapon. Dervish Dance is there because point buy is a thing and being able to buy in only two good stats is great for a class who only uses two and a half stats.
Hexcrafter is okay, It really depends on whether or not you find flight more important than spell recall, which I do not.
Straight Nova magus who spont. casts Shocking Grasp and recalls them is usually the most effective and versatile way to go, since you can prepare anything you want and essentially convert Arcane Points into burst damage with Heighten and Preferred Spells.
Problem is anything that is Elec resist or immune can really nerf your damage with the shocking grasp build. Hexcrafters get a lot more tricks than just flight. Everything from charm for semi party facing, to the hair hex for tons of options, to nails, to free brew potion, to slumber (Considering the campaign has a bunch of weak will save foes as I recall), to water breathing at will, even a little healing, just way too many good things in that bunch and thats just the low end hexes.
Regards,
DRS
Arcane points not spent on arcane accuracy are points wasted imo. AA makes you hit every time.
But hey, playing a class with so many solid builds is a great place to be! You're going to get a lot of people telling you what is best!
DRS3 wrote: master_marshmallow wrote: 25 point means you can afford a STR magus.
16 14 14 14 10 10
With no racial adjustments, really solid stats.
16 16 14 16 10 8
With human racial after your one ability point from leveling up to 4.
Personally not a fan of Kensai or Bladebound, I've seen DMs really mess with a player who had an intelligent weapon. Dervish Dance is there because point buy is a thing and being able to buy in only two good stats is great for a class who only uses two and a half stats.
Hexcrafter is okay, It really depends on whether or not you find flight more important than spell recall, which I do not.
Straight Nova magus who spont. casts Shocking Grasp and recalls them is usually the most effective and versatile way to go, since you can prepare anything you want and essentially convert Arcane Points into burst damage with Heighten and Preferred Spells.
Problem is anything that is Elec resist or immune can really nerf your damage with the shocking grasp build. Hexcrafters get a lot more tricks than just flight. Everything from charm for semi party facing, to the hair hex for tons of options, to nails, to free brew potion, to slumber (Considering the campaign has a bunch of weak will save foes as I recall), to water breathing at will, even a little healing, just way too many good things in that bunch and thats just the low end hexes.
Regards,
DRS But he doesn't have to nova with grasp against those enemies, that's the whole point of making it spontaneous.
Also Elemental Spell is a thing.
In situations where you need burst damage, there's no substitute.
Also do not forget that against enemies wearing metal armor, Shocking Grasp grants a +3 bonus, the same that his INT is before magic items.
EDIT: Also he can still use Arcane Accuracy, he just needs to make sure he still has points later to recall his utility spells or his buffs that he burned on Shocking Grasp uses.
No, no, no! His INT will start at 20.
stuart haffenden wrote: No, no, no! His INT will start at 20. Read edit.
He'll have 6 monsters debuffed to oblivion with one casting of frostbite - spell recall is nice but you really don't need it to rock.
Plus the constrict will double his damage output.
Bab 3, INT 5 AA 5 Pool 1 +14 (1d4 + 8, + 1d6 + 6 non-lethal cold) Ave. 20 damage plus another 10 from constrict, total 30 plus fatigued, entangled, shot at shaken and grappled!
So With Heighten Elemental and Preferred, with no doubt intensified and empowered in there, are we to spend feats on anything other than meta magic to use on one spell, that even if you switch its damage type around is still subject to spell resist? Or even spell immunity? I dislike any build that puts the vast majority of its resources into one trick that can be blanket defeated by a 7th level cleric or wizard with globe of invulnerability/spell immunity.
Now, I am not saying that it isn't effective, just realize that at some point your DM can literally just decided to have an opponent be immune to the one trick you've spent perfecting. Finally spell recall is not that awesome. Its built in Pearls of Power which if you are building to metamagic the crap out of your spells via magical lineage or waywang spellhunter provide roughly the same benefit, are cheap.
Hexcrafter gives offensive actions that target a completely different weakness from the Zap based magi which gives you flexibility. Futhermore, nothing is stopping a hexcrafter from using shocking grasp but, any other type of magi can not use hexes (which auto scale in DC up to a theorectical 10th level spell I might add).
Regards,
DRS
stuart haffenden wrote: He'll have 6 monsters debuffed to oblivion with one casting of frostbite - spell recall is nice but you really don't need it to rock.
Plus the constrict will double his damage output.
Bab 3, INT 5 AA 5 Pool 1 +14 (1d4 + 8, + 1d6 + 6 non-lethal cold) Ave. 20 damage plus another 10 from constrict, total 30 plus fatigued, entangled, shot at shaken and grappled!
Why not do both? Hexcrafter still gets spell recall, but not until 11th level, and you never get its improved version.
But by then you can do all the things.
DRS3 wrote: So With Heighten Elemental and Preferred, with no doubt intensified and empowered in there, are we to spend feats on anything other than meta magic to use on one spell, that even if you switch its damage type around is still subject to spell resist? Or even spell immunity? I dislike any build that puts the vast majority of its resources into one trick that can be blanket defeated by a 7th level cleric or wizard with globe of invulnerability.
Now, I am not saying that it isn't effective, just realize that at some point your DM can literally just decided to have an opponent be immune to the one trick you've spent perfecting. Finally spell recall is not that awesome. Its built in Pearls of Power which if you are building to metamagic the crap out of your spells via magical lineage or waywang spellhunter provide roughly the same benefit, are cheap.
Hexcrafter gives offensive actions that target a completely different weakness from the Zap based magi which gives you flexibility. Futhermore, nothing is stopping a hexcrafter from using shocking grasp but, any other type of magi can not use hexes (which auto scale in DC up to a theorectical 10th level spell I might add).
Regards,
DRS
You get plenty of feats to spend on other things, Heighten and Preferred are really the only things you need, since Intensified doesn't really come on until 7th level realistically. That bonus feat helps a lot.
Far from one trick, you still have an entire spell list of things to prepare and Grasp is there in your pocket when you need it.
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I didn't actually say your build was a one trick pony but adding hexes does nothing but make you better in every way - what's not to like about that? Everyone has grasp in their pocket.
Going with a STR based hexcrafter bladebound myself at the moment, using Enforcer + rimed frostbites for fun, shocking grasps(lineage) or Brand for damage or melee, and evil eye when nothing else seems appropriate. Fly hex is useful, but not mandatory (you'll be using overland flight at late levels, and can get flight with Monstrous physique, if needed).
You _can_ push power attacking until level 7 and Intensified spells up to level 9 (the difference with damage potential isn't all that significant when compared to monster HP before that), if you need the feats for something else (I'd go for Big game hunter for a nice, fairly generic to hit/to damage boost).
For a decent debuffing experience I'd suggest getting extra traits (spell hunter or metamagic master for fireball) and get that sickening spell for it. Add lingering pain arcana for versatility, and you'll have a nice "negative bard" character targeting pretty much any save you want, with multiple elements in case of resistances. Add those funky [force] spells that magi have, and you can try some maneuvering as well.
A bladebound magus suffers a bit from the smaller pool, and even with that intelligent weapon nastiness to be expected from your GM, it's still worth the trade in my book. If you can pick up both human and elf FCBs, you'll be able to compensate for both the loss of one arcana (elf FCB) and the smaller pool (human FCB).
The thing about hexes is: Every single debuffing hex is a (Su) ability, and as such, not subject to spell resistance (or globes of invulnerability). Even if you take just one or two, you'll have a really good tool for higher levels.
Even when you aren't doing top damage, you'll be saving your party's hide with debuffing goodness.
i really like hexcrafter just for the resource management... one of the downsides to the magus is that they can nova hard but burn through resources quickly if they have a long adventuring day... hexes completely alleviate that issue.
there are builds that can nova harder (and depending on your party/campaign resource management might not be a big issue) but hexcrafters are more versatile and always have something they can contribute. throw in the pragmatic activator trait and UMD (which is a class skill) and you'll really have a trick for every occasion (even more so if you built as a samsaran- you could take mystic past life to add 4-5 wiz/sorc spells to your list).
Quick aside elemental spell requires you to choose the alternate damage type when you take the feat. Thus to have ultimate flexibility you have to take the thing 3 times, which is un-fun. Elemental based damage is a bear to connect with at times.
Regards,
DRS
Well there is always Vamp Touch against those enemies, like I said, the plan is never to actually prepare Shocking Grasp.
The main problem with most Magus archetypes is they give up Spell Recall. While being able to recall spells you've already cast might not seem a big deal it can give you more flexibility in memorizing different spells and can increase the number of spells you can cast during the day.
Matt2VK wrote: The main problem with most Magus archetypes is they give up Spell Recall. While being able to recall spells you've already cast might not seem a big deal it can give you more flexibility in memorizing different spells and can increase the number of spells you can cast during the day. Pearls of power 1st cost 1k, 500 GP to craft, you can have quite the collection of them. That alone makes spell recall meh. Plus any archetype that gives up plain old spell recall but not improved spell recall gets spell recall at 11th.
Those things combine to make spell recall a solid but, ultimately a gravy on the biscuit ability.
Regards,
DRS
Hexcrafter is a good archetype, but spell recall is still a very strong ability and is missed at 4th level.
Pearls are your friends. I'm playing a Hexcrafter White Haired Witch at (7/2) right now and I haven't run out of spells once.
My attack routine is currently...
AA, Attack/hit, intimidate roll, grab, constrict - attack/hit, intimidate roll (not normally needed), grab, constrict. 120 damage average and the target is at -6 to hit, -5 AC, -7CMB and -8CMD Grappled but I'm not.
Another voice for the awesomeness of pearls of power. I've been watching a brutal kensai/bladebound build for months now but lately I've been wondering about a pure kensai with a +1 keen spell storing scimatar and boat loads of level 1 pearls of power. Drop a crit for 41d6+ ability modifier at level 10? Sounds good to me.
Yes they can work really well but a Hexcrafter is more versatile.
Problem with pearls is that they're a pain to use in combat. Spell Recall is a swift action.
Swift Actions are for Arcane Accuracy!
DRS3 wrote: Quick aside elemental spell requires you to choose the alternate damage type when you take the feat. Thus to have ultimate flexibility you have to take the thing 3 times, which is un-fun. Elemental based damage is a bear to connect with at times. I've been pondering this for a while....is it better to get elemental spell as a feat to gain the flexibility of changing the type of damage, or it's better to use a sorcerer bloodline (like marid, etc) or the admixture wizard (any type on the spot)??
Basically, is it better to take a feat or a class level to get the flexibility to change the damage type?
feats are sparse , but class skill delays you, so not sure which is best (BTW: I know we could use rods, but this require an action to get the rod and then you don't have any hand free...so more preparation in combat)
Unless you're a tiefling... Or have that prehensile hair hex...
Cuttler wrote: DRS3 wrote: Quick aside elemental spell requires you to choose the alternate damage type when you take the feat. Thus to have ultimate flexibility you have to take the thing 3 times, which is un-fun. Elemental based damage is a bear to connect with at times. I've been pondering this for a while....is it better to get elemental spell as a feat to gain the flexibility of changing the type of damage, or it's better to use a sorcerer bloodline (like marid, etc) or the admixture wizard (any type on the spot)??
Basically, is it better to take a feat or a class level to get the flexibility to change the damage type?
feats are sparse , but class skill delays you, so not sure which is best (BTW: I know we could use rods, but this require an action to get the rod and then you don't have any hand free...so more preparation in combat)
For me its usually, its better not to take the spell and find a spell that gives me more options, as low as the damage is Elemental Touch is an option, but that spell is more about the status effects it causes than the damage, which is why I don't spell strike it. My Magi end up with a smattering of all knowledge skills so usually enough to know whether its worth his time to cast SG/Frost/Frigid etc. With the curse spells added through hexcrafter I usually have more than enough options to take out my foe without having to resort to outright brute force, but having the option to drop someone in your back pocket is also admirable.
Finally, there is the much maligned arcana pool strike, which while never being a rockstar as far as damage is concerned, it does give you flexibility, can be spellstruck, and I have found use for it when being forced to move in a round, by using it in combination with a two-handed spell strike.
Regards,
DRS
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