Augmented Gearsman

D3stro 2119's page

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As the title says. Are there any sort of free use premade layout/format templates for Starfinder for the purpose of making "official" looking homebrew like DnD5e or PF2e have? I know there is the free Starfinder Infinite template, but I don't think that is licensed for commercial use.

Thanks for any help you can give!


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CastleDour wrote:
It would have cheapened the setting if the most prolific villainous deity was a meme conjured by the fandom. I thought it was amazing, I hope they make a novel to flesh things out.

Arguably it cheapens the setting for the super duper mysterious god Norgorber to have literally been a dude named Gorb.

I was always picturing like 4 halfling slaves from Cheliax scrabbling to become a god from nothing; Gorb literally is just the meme of the surprisingly well adjusted rogue.

And in any case, we didn't need outright confirmation that all of the ascended are, indeed, humans. Even just a halfling or gnome in the mix would have helped.


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WWHsmackdown wrote:
Just off of my memory of book 1 of the adventure path I remember a barhop with robo tinkerer hands, robot bank guards, a crashed blimp with a literal machine spirit (40k style), a diesel looking crane in a junkyard fool of scrapped steampunk inventions) and a mass production style brewery with magitech refrigeration units. Outlaws of alkenstar checked all the steampunk boxes in my eyes. All of that being couched in wild West chiq is what gives it a unique identity instead of being a derivative, posh, vaguely British steampunk like you see in many renditions (not Arcane though).

To be honest, it’s precisely because all those things are included that the default setting (especially the flintlock obsession*) feels awkward and disjointed. The design requirements of a simple mechanical revolver a la the Colt SAA or Nagant M1895 pale when compared to what would be necessary for literally any of those examples (at least, the non-mystical ones). Everything looking drab and dusty is a flavor complaint on top of that.

To talk about a potentially more story relevant point, there’s still the fact that pyronite is hyped up a bunch in the story yet utterly ceases to be a relevant point after OoA concludes.

*I may as well note that irl there were two whole stages of firearms development (the matchlock and the wheellock) before the flintlock even existed that Paizo seems to have forgotten about


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Finoan wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:
Finoan wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:
Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.
For more advanced technology to import into PF2 adventures such as Outlaws of Alkenstar, you may need to wait for Starfinder2e to become available. That should have plenty of high technology mechanics that can be re-themed to steampunk non-flintlock weapons and equipment.
Point being, it would be really easy to introduce revolvers and the whole Red Dead armory now already. Complaints about ""deadliness"" really hold no water considering how high pulp fantasy Golarion already is.

My point being that such things are most likely going to be added in Starfinder.

A revolver is basically a capacity weapon. And a semi-automatic pistol would be a repeating weapon. So the mechanics are already there. We just don't have published weapons that use them (without also having some significant drawbacks) because they would outshine the various bows, crossbows, and flintlock firearms that the setting is built with.

So if you want to homebrew steampunk firearms with more power, you can do that. If you want published weapons that already have that level of power, look to Starfinder2e when it arrives and re-skin.

It's mostly a flavor complaint about the flintlock stuff at this point.

Having said that I don't think using the idea of anything ""outshining"" or ""obsoleting"" anything really matters in a setting like Golarion, especially not with the more Wild West stuff.


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Finoan wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:
Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.
For more advanced technology to import into PF2 adventures such as Outlaws of Alkenstar, you may need to wait for Starfinder2e to become available. That should have plenty of high technology mechanics that can be re-themed to steampunk non-flintlock weapons and equipment.

Point being, it would be really easy to introduce revolvers and the whole Red Dead armory now already. Complaints about ""deadliness"" really hold no water considering how high pulp fantasy Golarion already is.

nephandys wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:


So since I’ve recently come off of watching Arcane and reading through Outlaws of Alkenstar (still holding out for a Numeria based campaign in 2e), I’d like to discuss the Alkenstar of 2e, since Outlaws of Alkenstar was our first firsthand view of the place in this edition since like one module in 1e.

To be honest, it’s really disappointing to see that they decided to emphasize the “”Bronze Dead Redemption/cowboys with flintlocks”” thing, instead of really focusing on the steampunk/ pulp-weird tech elements.

Maybe this is just a case of a tremendously good portrayal of something being compared to a merely ok portrayal of something, but every time I look at the worldbuilding and ambience of Piltover/Zaun in Arcane and compare it to Skyside/Smokeside of Alkenstar the latter winds up looking like a poor imitation.

Having said that, I believe a great deal of things could be fixed by giving up the weird obsession with flintlock muzzle-loaders that Pathfinder seems to have and replacing them with simple mechanical revolvers and rifles, and more exotic things like maybe the Golarion/Mana Wastes version of thasteron-powered guns (would add subplots for mining that stuff as well).

A new dedicated clockwork automaton ancestry like Golarion’s version of the warforged would help the flavor as well. Lean into the mad science subplot opportunities (possible interplanetary/interplanar adventures might happen here). And depending on personal preference, maybe replace some of the dusty streets with neon lights?

What are your thoughts on this?

ps: the fact that the main plot character of OoA seems to disappear after book 1 and how the overarching plot about “”pyronite”” simply doesn’t seem to be enough of a high stakes enough plot (and that any mention of the stuff vanishes completely after the AP ends) doesn’t help anything

Personally I think the theme of mad science is a bit more Ustalav than it is Alkenstar.

Honestly that's literally only one trope. Ustalav's ""mad science"" bit is greatly outshadowed by the ""undead everywhere"" bit. That trope fits Alkenstar more tbh.


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Ravingdork wrote:

I think the reason it has more of a western cowboyesque feel over 1st Edition's steampunk vibe is because game developers don't like doing the same thing twice. Redundancy in theme is boring and doesn't sell as well.

Another issue is the fact that you're comparing it to Arcane, one of the most cinematically stunning works of art to be released in over a decade. That is a VERY high comparative bar. Not much is going to have the awesome, cool, gravitas that Arcane has. Most things will pale in comparison.

However, that doesn't mean Paizo and other developers can't strive for such a high ideal in interest and quality, but even in doing so they are going to want to keep their identity unique and not simply copy what others are doing (because, again, redundancy is boring and doesn't sell well).

Yeah lol I guess most of it is just a case of ""something amazing compared to something ok"". I mostly just brought it up since I've seen some players I know be disappointed about this.

Having said that, I still really wish that the weird flintlocks-only thing gets discarded, and that the theming gets changed a bit.

Ruzza wrote:


Alkenstar has to reside in a something of a living shared world which makes it somewhat difficult to throw a lot of rules out the window on a system-wide scale. Now, that's not to say that you can't just do your own thing in home games, but as more math-inclined people than I have pointed out, revolvers in PF2 would either unbalance things or be so weak as to not fulfill that fantasy that those clamoring for them would want.

Also, are automaton's not to your liking when it comes to "warforged-esque" ancestry? It always felt like a bit of a bone thrown to the warforged crowd.

Like, I suppose what I'm saying is, a lot of what your asking is just a difference in perspective. If you want to tell a story of Alkenstar where there's neon lights and mutagenic drugs running rampant, your world can have that. You can even just take Outlaws of Alkenstar and tell the story in that way. But it does seem that's not where the writers are heading with the area.

I would argue that the LoL world is no less ""living and shared"" than the Paizo world is.

Automatons have this weird baggage to a really obscure part of Golarion lore that I feel ultimately makes them even less accessible than the actual literal androids on the world. Tying them more to Alkenstar would give it something that makes it stand out; in fact I recall a great deal of 3.X Eberron material had small tips on how to include Warforged in other settings.

Oh sure. Again, I'm not saying that all Alkenstar stuff is bad. I just wish that, what with the Inventor class and Alchemist class and other pulp stuff being a thing, that at the very least the weird ""flintlock-only"" stuff gets discarded.


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An AP I came up with after discussing interworld adventures.

Swords against the Worlds (working title-- all titles are working rn tbh)

Themes: Sword and Planet, War, Technological Advancement, Magic, Interworld Travel, Politics,

Location(s): Technically the entire solar system, but with a heavy focus on all the parts of Golarion, with Castrovel and Akiton being second (and other places not to feature much until book 4-- tentatively speaking)

Book 1 : A Powder Keg, Ignited (Levels 1-3)

The PCs are a group of world travelers (of varying composition) representing various exploratory societies (possible source of campaign traits) on a mission in Qadira, hoping to follow up on leads of an incredible discovery. While in the city of Katheer, however, an act occurs which rapidly plunges the city-- and soon the world-- into chaos: the assassination of a major political figure from Kelesh. The PCs must contend with the consequences of already fraught international relations exploding into open tumult, from outraged civilians to government patrols seeking to apprehend any they suspect of the crime. In making their way out of the country, however, the PCs may have to deal with the remnants of the forces behind the unrest as well.

Book 2: The Burning Red World (Levels 4-6)

Having escaped the unrest in Qadira in the previous book, the characters find themselves transported to the world of Akiton via an ancient portal located in a Thassilonian temple since converted into the headquarters of a cell of the Cult of the New Eon, the anarchistic group responsible for the assassination in Qadira. There, the PCs join a passing trade caravan between the city-states of the Akitonian continents. Upon their arrival in Seldo, a major trade hub of the region, the PCs find themselves embroiled in the intrigue of the city-state's changing relations with other places on Akiton, culminating in a daring battle with Casmoran Empire soldiers on board an experimental skyship over the burning ruins of Seldo.

Book 3: Storming the Gates (Levels 7-11)

The PCs are back on Golarion, after miraculously surviving the Ardent Sirocco 's first (and only) in-action usage of its experimental crystalline wind drive. The PCs are rapidly extracted from their crash site in the Inner Sea region by Taldan soldiers of the United Avistan Alliance (or the Allies for short), and brought before a local Taldan military governor, who inducts them into a special unit of the Taldan military as a result of the UAA declaring their exploratory societies military assets. They are promptly sent out to aid and assist in securing potential magical gates and portals to other worlds, against Casmoran occupation, taking them one end of the war front to the other, where they must confront the war and its aftermath up close.

Book 4: Shooting Over the Moon (Levels 12-14)

With the final Casmoran-threatened gate secured, the PCs are called back from the world of Castrovel to the Allied command in the famous city of Absalom, where the salvaged parts of the wreck of the Ardent Sirocco have contributed to the creation of new ships to traverse space and travel to different worlds on the Material Plane. The PCs are given the honor of being on the first to travel offworld with these first generation ships. Their first mission? Travel to the Moonscar and recover vital intel on the suppliers of Casmaron's new war material.

Book 5: A Wartime Tour (15-18)

The battle between demon residents, Casmoran forces, and Cult of the New Eon agents on and over the desolate landscape of Somal has concluded, in the UAA's favor. However, the Casmoran empire has found other allies in secretive alliances with the Bone Sages of Eox. In the face of this assembled fleet, the UAA scrambles to build up industry and alliances throughout the other worlds of the system. The PCs are sent to attend major diplomatic missions on Castrovel and Akiton, investigate and counter New Epoch plans throughout Triaxus and Verces, and ultimately lead a major battle in space for the safety of all the system.

Book 6: Having Done All, Stand (19-20)

With the ultimate deception of the Cult of the New Eon revealed, and their forces shattered, the PCs must ally with one-time enemies and old allies alike to prevent the Cult's plans for the awakening of Aucturn. Traveling past the Diaspora, the PCs must battle the remnants of ancient and modern foes alike to make a final stand against the plots of the New Eon in the depths of Aucturn, with the knowledge that their universe might change-- for better or worse, is up to them.


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So since I’ve recently come off of watching Arcane and reading through Outlaws of Alkenstar (still holding out for a Numeria based campaign in 2e), I’d like to discuss the Alkenstar of 2e, since Outlaws of Alkenstar was our first firsthand view of the place in this edition since like one module in 1e.

To be honest, it’s really disappointing to see that they decided to emphasize the “”Bronze Dead Redemption/cowboys with flintlocks”” thing, instead of really focusing on the steampunk/ pulp-weird tech elements.

Maybe this is just a case of a tremendously good portrayal of something being compared to a merely ok portrayal of something, but every time I look at the worldbuilding and ambience of Piltover/Zaun in Arcane and compare it to Skyside/Smokeside of Alkenstar the latter winds up looking like a poor imitation.

Having said that, I believe a great deal of things could be fixed by giving up the weird obsession with flintlock muzzle-loaders that Pathfinder seems to have and replacing them with simple mechanical revolvers and rifles, and more exotic things like maybe the Golarion/Mana Wastes version of thasteron-powered guns (would add subplots for mining that stuff as well).

A new dedicated clockwork automaton ancestry like Golarion’s version of the warforged would help the flavor as well. Lean into the mad science subplot opportunities (possible interplanetary/interplanar adventures might happen here). And depending on personal preference, maybe replace some of the dusty streets with neon lights?

What are your thoughts on this?

ps: the fact that the main plot character of OoA seems to disappear after book 1 and how the overarching plot about “”pyronite”” simply doesn’t seem to be enough of a high stakes enough plot (and that any mention of the stuff vanishes completely after the AP ends) doesn’t help anything


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Joynt Jezebel wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:


Ironically my intro into Sword and Planet was this obscure article in the back of Dragon magazine 102 (or 101) called ""Iron Lords of Jupiter"" (?) which basically was ""John Carter of Mars but on Jupiter and also Jupiter just has really thick cloud cover over its rocky surface in the same way Venus is the steamy stone age jungle planet"".

Edgar Rice Burroughs actually wrote a novel where John Carter wound up on Jupiter. It wasn't a jungle world and the reason the gravity wasn't heavier than on mars was "centrifugal force". This would appear to be the extreme opposite of hard SF, not soft but gaseous SF, like Star Wars.

I was in love with the John Carter and Carson of Venus books when a kid and never quite got over it. So D3stro 2119 you are commanded to move to Perth, Western Australia immediately so I can play in your Campaign.

I have a sword and planet type campaign planned, which rips off the idea of stargates from, well Stargate, and the PCs will go to a Dyson Sphere and interact with the 3 godmind type AIs that maintain it. One, the one charged with defending the Dyson Sphere, has had nothing to do for billions of years and has gone insane.

On another topic, PF1 with high tech and Starfinder are not nescessarily in competition. You go for PF1 with high tech if you want higher fantasy with more powerful magic.

On the topic of ""hardness"" of scifi, I would argue that that whole thing is basically meaningless (in fact a great deal of so called ""hard scifi"" is actually ""gaseous"" as you put it), and that simply categorizing scifi as "high", or "medium" or "low", etc. makes much more sense.

Having said that, I've been working on making a setting that is in the sub genre of "Sword and Stars" which is basically a classification I use to describe a setting that incorporates medium/high scifi stuff with medium/high fantasy elements. I am also working on writing campaigns and adventures for this setting.


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OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Seeing as Starfinder 2 will be compatible with Pathfinder Remastered, I feel it is in itself a massive addition to PF2R. And vice versa if you are a SF fan.

Personally I’d like to see the Paizo team stick their necks waaaaaaay out and really get creative with a bunch of options (feats, spells, equipment, ancestries, heritages, archetypes) and bolt-ons (like campaign mods) to really take people’s Pathfinder games into the future of gaming. Essentially Remastered Unchained, but even more ground- and lImit-breaking. Obviously none of this would necessarily be Society-conversant, and, to take it even more into the realms of never-gonna-happen, possibly completely removed from Golarion lore.

But a player can dream…

Seeing as that first one is probably gonna be the thing that represents the ""Tech Guide/Distant Worlds book of 2e"" I hope that whatever they release remasters that setting as well. Or at the very least, we get a bunch of toolkit books (ie I recall discussion about wanting an alternate time periods/tech levels support book).

Also, seconding your other point.


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Andostre wrote:

I've always felt like interplanetary adventures are akin to interplanar adventures. An alien environment, alien cultures, and even alien physics. The only difference in my mind is that on another planet, you can look up at the stars and know that your own home is out there somewhere.

Even in standard fantasy planetary teleport exists for a reason.

To note, I've heard of Legendary Planet by Legendary Games, but personally that crosses the thin line between ""sword and planet"" and ""basically bog standard fantasy with a slight palette swap"" too much.

Ironically my intro into Sword and Planet was this obscure article in the back of Dragon magazine 102 (or 101) called ""Iron Lords of Jupiter"" (?) which basically was ""John Carter of Mars but on Jupiter and also Jupiter just has really thick cloud cover over its rocky surface in the same way Venus is the steamy stone age jungle planet"".

I do like Scifi x fantasy, which is basically what the old pulp stuff is, but I feel sometimes stupid stuff goes unexplained. Dragonstar for DnD 3.0 is a setting that I also feel is sort of like Starfinder before Starfinder, but it has it's own problems.

ps: I also dislike ""planetary teleport"" since it's a really awkward stealth retcon of spell mechanics/lore that I feel is rather underhanded/needlessly confusing.


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Dragonchess Player wrote:

D3stro 2119 may have a different opinion, but a Sword and Planet game would be a lot closer to High Science Fantasy to me than "normal" Starfinder. Starfinder pretty much has more or less omnipresent high-tech, just with magic included (closer to Star Wars than Barsoom).

It's probably less about the rules than the feel; for example, the thasphalt weapons from Drift Crisis, along with the various living weapons in the Starfinder Armory, fit in much better with a Sword and Planet setting than most standard Starfinder guns/weapons.

A mix of this and the fact that the Starfinder setting just really doesn't work for me. I guess it just feels to me like a somehow less coherent Shadowrun lol. Although I would argue that Starfinder's problem is that it IS ""high science fantasy"" but in a really awkward mishmashy way with no discernible themes or tone.

It's in terms of this point basically that I'm planning to homebrew.


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AnimatedPaper wrote:

Just…no. I mean this in the least condescending way possible, but you have a bunch of assumptions about starfinder 2e where the developers have already said there might be changes.

My advice is for you to step back and assume the majority of starfinders mechanics are not hanging around, most especially the class designs. We simply don’t know enough about how even the playtest versions of the classes will look like to see if there’s going to significant overlap between PF2 and SF2 classes. And that “we” includes the developers, as they aren’t even finished writing those classes out yet.

Edit: and then also check out the starfinder forum where the playtest is being teased. That’ll help answer your questions, or at least give you better questions to ask.

https://paizo.com/community/forums/starfinder/secondEditionPlaytest

Well this was a product of reading another thread talking about this issue on this same forum. I’ve also read the play test stuff and all signs point to there being at the very least a common set of rules between the two.

Incidentally, saying that you aren’t being condescending, and then implying that a question intended to provoke discussion is a dumb question to ask at all honestly comes off as disingenuous.


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So as it seems that Starfinder 2e is going to be fully compatible with Pathfinder 2e (our wishes for a 2e tech guide/distant worlds book seem to have been granted in a way), I wanted to discuss how the combination of classes will work.

For example, the Starfinder 1e Soldier and Operative classes were basically ""fighter and rogue in space"". How would you handle the differences, if any, in your home games?

To put up a somewhat more complex example, the Mechanic and Biohacker classes of Starfinder 1e greatly parallel the Inventor and Alchemist classes of Pathfinder 2e. Do you feel these overlap too much in terms of their niches?

Finally, on the spellcasting/magic classes, how would you handle PF2e Cleric and Wizard and other such caster classes in with Starfinder Mystic, Technomancer, etc.? Lorewise, how do you justify any differences in casting and spells?

All helpful and insightful discussion is encouraged.


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NerdOver9000 wrote:
The-Magic-Sword wrote:


Maybe they're talking about Starfinder 2e being compatible and ORC? What with the word "Gap"

It will be nice for tech fabs, we're already planning on introducibg a lot of it to our PF game as JRPG style magitech.

That's the thing I'm most excited about with the two systems being compatible. I'd love to craft a time hopping Chrono Trigger style campaign, hopping between times and picking up party members as we go. I doubt we'll ever see official support for it, but I can dream...

I recall there was a push for, if we get a ""tech guide"", for it to be a multiple time periods support thing instead of just a gear list basically.


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AestheticDialectic wrote:
In my opinion Starfinder isn't science fiction at all, it's space fantasy

I agree, but I also think it just really doesn't work for me, having read through several of its books and adventures. I suppose, to me, it's a combo of just feeling really unfinished and being really restrictive and confusing.

steelhead wrote:

Doesn’t an Age of Ashes books visit one of the other planets?

I agree that the tone of Starfinder is much different, and I would rather have a dark fantasy setting with sci-fi elements sprinkled in than a straight up science fiction and added swords.

Could not say anything about Age of Ashes, unless someone else wants to clarify this specific point.

I would argue that it's basically space fantasy, and that your example describes a different setting much better (ie something like W40k lol, which I'm incidentally also working on working into my setting), but it's because of feeling really undeveloped and restricting at the same time that really causes me to dislike it.

Finoan wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:
Having said that, any opinions/ideas about the main topic of the post?

I have not read Legendary Planet 3pp AP or Distant Worlds for 1e. I also don't have enough time for creating a custom setting.

My thoughts on the matter are:

* I enjoyed the Starfinder setting. But I can see how that setting may not match what you are trying to build.
* Lore and setting is separated from mechanics. In the Pathfinder2e rulebooks the two are presented together and somewhat linked, but unlinking the two and re-theming the classes, feats, and items is not terribly difficult. Setting is even easier to unlink. The setting books from previous editions, such as Distant Worlds, can have the lore and narrative borrowed from them and imported into a PF2 game without much difficulty at all.
* I agree with Captain Morgan that Starfinder2e is going to be fantastic for your game mechanics needs. Even if you don't use the setting of that game, having the ancestries, classes, starships and other interplanetary transport mechanics, items, and weapons available will be very useful.

And I feel like this is what several other people have already said. So while it may not be the answer that you wanted, it is certainly the answer that we are able to give. And it may be a more helpful and correct answer than you are expecting.

I think this is a pretty decent answer considering what we have and can expect from Paizo. I'm personally planning to take advantage of your second point to incorporate a bunch of stuff from my own scifi media collection for worldbuilding.


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James Jacobs wrote:
snip

Oh ok. I'm genuinely still confused about why it would be set so far in the past when every other AP was set around a decade of each other, especially since it all seems very isolated in a single small area, but it seems I'll have to wait until all the books are released so I can buy them to make any sense of that.


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So excuse me if there's some big twist in a later book that clears up all my issues, but what is the deal with the game's date (is it a different calendar form the Inner Sea one?) and the time period being 100 years before even the 1e APs?

The latter especially confuses me. What is the point of this? This is a four parter that takes place in an isolated region of the world that seems to have nothing to do with the other APs. Why could it not be set in the game's ""present date""?

(minor art confusion as well-- how could Yoon, a child in the time of 1e, be portrayed as a PC in Season of Ghosts as an adult?)


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Boomerang Nebula wrote:
I just checked: page 70 of Planar Adventures states that demigods have stat blocks and deities are “beyond the concept of rules”.

Maybe it's my experience with Exlated, Scion rpg, DnD 4e and comics like Marvel and DC talking, but frankly I rather dislike the portrayal of deities as limitless and omnipotent creatures of plot device-- ""beyond the concept of rules"" honestly just sounds really awkward and edgy/confrontational, almost like a middle finger to people who do want to use deities more directly in their games.

ps: as a side note, it especially rankles me to see the likes of Cayden Cailean, a low-mid level fighting man, become orders of magnitude more powerful than the strongest Empyreal Lords and Archdevils by accident.


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To get back on this topic, when I talked about the ""stone age milieu"" I didn't actually mean needing to make up a ""distant past Golarion"" (most fantasy settings are pretty wonky with this sort of thing anyways). I was more meaning making up a ""mini-setting"" of a sorts so to speak, maybe in a demiplane or something.

I think Starfinder is a very bad rpg and would not really want to use it for anything, tbh.

In terms of what I think is likely (which coincidentally is something I actually would want) is more stuff on Casmaron, since its a big part of the world's setting that has received practically no support.


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Most of my base problems come from the system itself, but I suppose that is a different topic.

Specifically, I want to see more guns and tech (including magitech) outside of the "theme park zones" (ie not just "more Numeria" or "more Alkenstar"). I would want to see guns being "core handbook weapons" Also, implementing at least a late 19th/early 20th century level of guns and such would not be a problem for me, considering it would clear up a lot of problems with needing to compensate for a inherently bad weapon (like in 1e) and allow for more options and possibilities.

And on the topic of "more tech" I don't necessarily mean "more Numeria," I mean maybe more "Golarion setting" tech as well (and not just "steampunk" which is overused at this point).


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Aristophanes wrote:

My internal logic for so many fantasy settings being humanocentric, was expressed by Ambassador Delenn on "Babylon 5": Humans share one unique quality. They build communities. If the Narns or the Centauri or any other race built a station like this, it would be used only by their own people, but everywhere humans go, they create communities out of diverse and sometimes hostile populations. It is a great gift and a terrible responsibility, one that cannot be abandoned."

-- Delenn in Babylon 5:"And Now For a Word"

Tbh that's more of a reason to have humans in a lot of communities, and less "humanocentrism --even the most cosmopolitan areas are 80+% human".

If anything there is more reason to have mixed, cosmopolitan places.


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keftiu wrote:

Don't expect any familiar members of the Cthulhu Mythos in my games. I love the setting's unique cosmic horrors, but our old friends from the public domain have worn out their welcome with me.

...except Hastur. I've always got a little room in my heart for Hastur. Who doesn't?

[Insert rant about how Cthulhu is massively overrated in practically all media involving him; he was bonked and damaged by a low-powered steam/sailing boat and gave up]

Also, I actually like the elf lore, even if I have changed the ancestries as a whole. The idea that "elves are aliens" is a really good one and sets one of the tones of the setting (something I really wanted the setting to play into more rather than just being "bog standard fantasy").


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CrusaderWolf wrote:

I don't have much to add here that others haven't, but my major changes:

1) far less humanocentric, in the sense that the major nations of the Inner Sea have waaay more nonhumans in them and this is considered normal because it's always been that way. Giants, kobolds, goblins, firbolgs, and lycanthropes in particular are not random encounter material but often long-established citizens of various nations, or recognized holders of their own fiefdoms that engage in trade/intrigue/conflict with their neighbors like any other polity.

2) Firearms are more common (radiating out primarily from Alkenstar, the Shackles, Irrisen, Ustalav, and Oprak) with clockpunk in particular becoming more and more common in those specific areas. My "pirate party" campaign had a ship that could fly thanks to a genie wish and they weren't subtle about it, so rigid-framed airships are becoming popular as other powerful leaders see the Queen of Disaster and wonder why they don't have a flying ship too! And once one area has them, everyone else gets in on it as well.

3) space-fantasy connections in the sense of witchwyrds with space-capable vessels seeking out trading partners, and Verces is also building their own such vessels. Triaxus is going to have an industrial revolution soon.

4) currently GMing a Reign of Winter campaign, and I'm not at all certain Irrisen's fate will match the Lost Omens canon; I think it was a wasted opportunity not to make a larger change there.

5) I also have Yggdrasil, though it's more fey/First World flavored! I like the concept of the irminsul, but the statblock execution was atrocious--so I use them as living site of connection to the World Tree.

And I reeeeaaaaallllyyy want to run some adventures in southern Garund, the part of the continent Paizo hasn't visited yet. I keep hoping they'll give us more than the bare hints we've gotten so far.

I like this take on the setting. Personally I really lean into the "magic/science" thing and allow a lot of gadgets and devices based on that (mostly because I think "steampunk" is really overdone).

I also really like the decrease of humanocentrism, which has never made sense in these settings.

Golarion is also medium industrial or industrializing across the myriad different parts of the world, though it is different in different places. Magic/science definitely has a major impact on it as well.

Incidentally, as much as I love advanced themes, I've brought all the planets of the system more or less in line with each other since some of them are bafflingly more developed than others, which only gets worse of you use the original way-too-long timescales (something I think the writers didn't really plan out). I've also changed their qualities slightly, in different ways.

Having said that, the nature of Golarion and its system in my setting means that a lot of space-fantasy/scifi stuff can and will happen.

Ps: incidentally, in terms of paizo publications, I really want more Casmaron stuff, so I can adapt it to my "Golarion" setting.


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D3stro 2119 wrote:

On the talk of "outsiders" and deities, in keeping with making things more "epic", but also less "cut and dry", I've made it so not only do the "half-outsider/spirit" races (and races in general) have "greater" abilities so to speak, but outsiders and deities in general are things I've been trying to make more "mysterious", while also not being obtuse.

Incidentally, MnM's Warriors and Warlocks supplement gives surprisingly good general advice for worldbuilding in terms of directly making a fantasy campaign-- I vaguely recall a reviewer claiming that its writers could handle DnD better than the current holders of that property.

To note, on ancestries/races, I wanted to give them flexibility/variety in choice as well as actually useful and awesome "racial abilities/powers". Feats/class abilities also got a lot of revision in the same vein.

Also, one more detail: guns and the like are more prevalent in my setting, being "core handbook weapons" so to speak. Because honestly, I don't see why they should be so excluded in a fantasy setting that specifically has support for them, and I think that overthinking their "irl lethality" and other related minutia is pretty ridiculous.


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CrimsonKnight wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:

So I was recently thinking about worldbuilding the "Golarion setting" based off of inspiration from Guns and Gears and "universal" rpgs like MnM/GURPS, for a personal project.

Thus, I wanted to write down some ideas for an "Industrial Age period" for Golarion.

In terms of weapons, I really don't see the problem in having at least "World War" (roughly corresponding to irl 1 and 2 as well as late 20th century stuff) level firearms in the setting, in order to bypass the wonkiness of the "early firearms" thing (minor digression, but due to some bad experiences with certain rpgs, overemphasizing equipment and the minutia of the system is a pretty bad design decision), alongside swords and bows and other things-- it's perfectly appropriate for high fantasy "genre-mash" settings.

a few for every "class" of gun should be good we don't need to go into details of every caliber and the number of grains and there wasn't many types during that time period (like no machine pistols). even during the age of sail the sword was more of a backup weapon. what I thought was a missed opertunity was "outlaw star" style caster guns.

D3stro 2119 wrote:


Vehicles could finally play a greater role with the rise of cars, planes, and trains (the last also doubles as a source of great action scenes). Communications would also obviously improve.

a word of warning even mounted archers have angered many of my players or a GM when my character converted a wagon to a hussite warwagon (mobile greater cover) more advanced mechanized infantry tactics would be available at steam or above tech (characters rolling up with an ironclad for land)

Yeah I definitely DON'T want to deal with "gun nuttery" and other meaningless minutia.

The second problem is more the problems of the base system itself than anything else tbh.


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Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
D3stro 2119 wrote:
Fwiw "alchemy" is basically a subset of magic anyways.

In the sense that it has a wide variety of fantastical effects clearly not possible in our own world, definitely. In the sense that it's actually linked to the forces of magic in any direct way, no, not quite so. It takes no knowledge of spellcasting or magic to perform alchemy, and alchemy continues to function even within an antimagic field.

Of course, one might well headcanon that the fantastical effects possible through alchemy are some bizarre hyper-innate form of metaphysical interaction that doesn't actually use any magical power at all, but I don't know if that's very well supported.

Alchemy is a good example of how even mundane science on Golarion might be called upon to make things a little weird when crafting a 'future' scenario.

Oh yeah that's what I meant.

The thing is (as far as I headcanon) that Golarion is highly magical and so many things we think are "mundane" are influenced by magic somehow.

But of course this links to the topic of needing to actually worldbuild magic.

Incidentally the lack of worldbuilding (or even themes or tone) for Starfinder is why I really dislike that game and its take on things related to this topic.


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YuriP wrote:
snip

Well then I feel the implicit question/assumption here is actually worldbuilding magic better than what the base setting and system gives us.

I feel Golarion has a lot of precedent for magitech and such. Frankly I already headcanon that Golarion's planet and life, humans, etc. aren't exactly the same as irl but that's a digression.

More on topic I feel all this could work really well in terms of describing a "transitional stage" so to speak of this setting, which will require more real worldbuilding on the GM's part to actually figure specifics out since the base setting does not elaborate on certain things.

Incidentally there's an agnostic rpg book called "Magical Industrial Revolution" that could be interesting and/or useful in some way for this.

Fwiw "alchemy" is basically a subset of magic anyways.


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YuriP wrote:
snip

I feel you have done your work in showing the different "periods" of this. That is really neat!

In my opinion, I believe we sort of have to decide the role of magic in this as well. I feel magic would greatly bolster science and the "industrial revolution."

In terms of devices and such, I personally really don't like the overused "steampunk" milieu. As such, I think magic would open up new possibilities.

For example, a progression could be internal combustion engines later turning into advanced magic powered devices.

In terms of the setting, I think the world is large enough to hold all these ideas. I'm really not too worried about guns and armor. Tbh this is where I feel the fantasy side should come in-- maybe there is a new means of armor making, or supernatural skill with certain weapons means they are still used.

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

standard coal industry stuff are too boring

steampunk with clockwork construct or victorian ustalav gothic are a little better

more high magic stuff like automaton flesh forge and flying city would be better

quantium are a great example with the heavy magical industry pollution

Yeah I feel playing up the fantasy merging with the setting is a very good idea.

Another idea: interworld travel themes and adventures.


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D3stro 2119 wrote:
_shredder_ wrote:

My biggest gripe with paizos golarion is how human centric it is, a trope that I never liked in any fantasy media with multiple intelligent ancestries. I find fantasy much more interesting were humans are neither especially common nor especially well liked or influential compared to other ancestries. I was especially disappointed when I read that even absalom is like 80% human, when I always imagened absalom as a fantasy metropolis where all kinds of cultures exist right next to each other, where it's normal to see a conrasu barkeeper or a strix courier and small parts of the city are almost entirely controlles by sprites or poppets.

But it's not a big deal, I just add NPCs to adventures to make uncommon/rare ancestries seem more common and slightly change the lore.

This.

I also modify a lot of races/ancestries in many different ways.

For example, there are differences between elves native to Castrovel and elves from Castrovel that now live on Golarion, not to mention elves found elsewhere. I also am a lot more generous with "racial abilities" for lack of a better term, all to fit the setting better.

Incidentally, to clarify this a bit more, I take some inspiration from MnM and generally try to both make ancestries/races more "super" so to speak and allow for more options and possibilities.

Fwiw PF2e has already done a surprisingly decent job of expanding options (unlike, say, DnD 5e where that game's inherent limitations make certain things genuinely a pain to try to work with/homebrew for).


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aobst128 wrote:

Magitech is always my go to for how a high fantasy world would advance. It already has in some parts like in places like Nex. Lots of cool stuff you can find in impossible lands.

For firearms, perhaps the secrets of the star guns have been unravelled and they've been able to reproduce them in a limited fashion. With magic involved, I like the idea of tech completely "skipping" what would be logical steps so they'd go from breach loaded flintlocks straight to laser guns.

Yeah, I feel also a theme with a lot of "genre-mash" superhero stuff is how the "super-people" archetype or their equivalent have some kind of "super-tech" in their society.

However, I also feel that there is a lot of room for what I have outlined as well, to represent "transitional" phases and such. Including things like "alternate tech levels" which would cover your suggestion.

Fwiw I've written up another thread on "what does your Golarion look like?" that more deeply covers the changes in design and theme I have done/am planning to implement.


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So I was recently thinking about worldbuilding the "Golarion setting" based off of inspiration from Guns and Gears and "universal" rpgs like MnM/GURPS, for a personal project.

Thus, I wanted to write down some ideas for an "Industrial Age period" for Golarion.

In terms of weapons, I really don't see the problem in having at least "World War" (roughly corresponding to irl 1 and 2 as well as late 20th century stuff) level firearms in the setting, in order to bypass the wonkiness of the "early firearms" thing (minor digression, but due to some bad experiences with certain rpgs, overemphasizing equipment and the minutia of the system is a pretty bad design decision), alongside swords and bows and other things-- it's perfectly appropriate for high fantasy "genre-mash" settings.

Vehicles could finally play a greater role with the rise of cars, planes, and trains (the last also doubles as a source of great action scenes). Communications would also obviously improve.

However, I feel the most important aspect is to play up the "fantasy" factor. Things like magitech, or even "alternate physics" super-science like gadgets and devices (with precedent from GnG, and they don't need to be "steampunk" either). New spells and forms of magic as well.

Personally, I think Golarion changes to fit this setting very easily, considering the many precedents already in published material. I mostly just made changes in terms of reducing arbitrariness of certain design decisions as well as cutting down many overly long timescales.

Any and all constructive input on the topic is welcomed.


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So I've been doing some reading on the area and realized that, like many other non-Inner Sea areas tbh. such a large and seemingly important area has had very little comparatively written for it.

As such, I am writing to ask whether anyone might be interested in a possible Casmaron based AP, whether focused on the obvious locale of Qadira or further in Kelesh. In any case, it would be useful to get more information on those areas (beyond the stereotypical "Arab Land" stuff).

If such a Casmaron based AP were to be written, what do you think it would be about? Feel free to post your own ideas as well.


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Lucas Yew wrote:

1) Any True Elixir of Life drastically slows down your aging speed to a practical zero, for about a month.

2) Monks who unlocked the Timeless Body ability DO potentially live forever unaged (until they "ascend to a higher existence" or do something similar).
3) Your soul doesn't get degraded to building blocks for the Outer Planes if you want so, and no harmful repercussions at all.

Those are what I'd immediately change. Others, I might think of in some other free time...

Fwiw this really exhibits the shortcomings of the system (that existed in 1e and SF as well) in failing to reconcile story with mechanics. Or even make a solid benchmark system for that kind of thing.


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keftiu wrote:

In the same reason that Osirion and Ustalav serve very specific niches, so too do Numeria and elf-gates to Castrovel. The greatest strength of the Lost Omens setting is that some corner of it is likely to be the flavor you want, and ignoring whatever you don’t is trivial.

Some groups would play Quest for the Frozen Flame as a very grounded faux-Ice Age narrative… and others would allow an Android PC from the nearby eastern lands. Both can be happy!

To focus solely on the example raised, this is another reason why I feel PF's setting needs more "different time period support" (while also having at least some kind of justification for that).

Like, Quest for the Frozen Flame is clearly intended to depict adventures in a more or less Neolithic region (though it fails to commit in certain ways) in a fantasy world. In the same vein I would like for maybe a Bronze Age area, perhaps in a different place.

Oh, and the specific image of something like an Android neolithic tribesperson just feels really fun to me (probably for the same reason I found Numeria to be novel). This is even sort of implemented in the AP itself via allowing characters that join the focused-on neolithic tribe to be from outside of the actual region.


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keftiu wrote:

“Thuvia-as-fantasy UAE” (in terms of coping with being dependent on a single export) is a really, really compelling angle. Between that and the desertification in Rahadoum, I love the potential for some super nonstandard plotlines in the region.

TBH I think the Sun Orchid Elixir as a whole is not really a good plot point for the whole place, considering its a pretty pitiful accomplishment when stacked up against every other person at that level, so to speak. And monopolizing the generic "immortality" thing to a single item in a world of magic feels awkward to me.

I understand from a meta reason it's meant to be a sort of "priceless plot-starting object" but I feel better things can carry that title.


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Darth Game Master wrote:
snip

Frankly, I feel as if what this whole trend really needs is more "bronze age" and "relative time periods" support. Egypt just happened to be the most well-known Bronze Age civilization due to its survival (more or less) into the modern era (and romanticization in a lot of pulp fiction, etc.).

Oh, and another note on races: I really dislike "humanocentrism" (something something Absalom of all places still being 80% human) and "race stereotypes." Specifically, on the latter, I've actually written up a whole campaign world where half-orcs are considered a major race, to the point of composing a strong nation promoting equality.


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WatersLethe wrote:


The classes from Starfinder are too narrow thematically, trying to go for specific niches that don't actually give you nearly as much freedom as PF2 classes do. Most SF class flavors could live comfortably as class paths, archetypes, or feat trees inside PF2 classes.

The de-emphasis of magic was a bit of a waste, since every group I was in had someone who wanted to play a full on Space Wizard but really couldn't to their satisfaction, so bringing back PF2 style magic would be a boon. Fully embracing the PF2 caster-martial balance allows tech and magic to fit together gracefully without magic taking an overly back-seat position as it felt in SF. Also, the long level gaps between new spells in SF was the pits.

Zero of the people I played with enjoyed the equipment of SF, finding it fiddly, overwhelming, treadmilly, and tedious. I had to prepare so many shortlists of options for my groups because they didn't know how to tackle the massive lists, even with search functions. So, wholesale borrowing the PF2 equipment system, and putting the word "Futuristic" in front of every item would be preferable.

Yeah TBH I feel the "big problem" of SF was that it lacked any real theme or tone, which is vital for any RPG (even the "universal" ones). This made it really awkward and difficult to familiarize players with anything and even to worldbuild as a GM.

Frankly, in retrospect, SF suffered a lot from basically almost being a proto-testbed for things that would later be hammered out in PF Playtest and 2e proper.


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If anything, I think as the official setting is becoming less and less "bog standard fantasy", which is a great thing, the sci-fi stuff belongs more, not less.


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On the talk of "outsiders" and deities, in keeping with making things more "epic", but also less "cut and dry", I've made it so not only do the "half-outsider/spirit" races (and races in general) have more concrete and "greater" abilities so to speak, but outsiders and deities in general are things I've been trying to make more "mysterious", while also not being obtuse.

Incidentally, MnM's Warriors and Warlocks supplement gives surprisingly good general advice for worldbuilding in terms of directly making a fantasy campaign-- I vaguely recall a reviewer claiming that its writers could handle DnD better than the current holders of that property.


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mikeawmids wrote:

While I have dabbled in many different AP, I have only run Rise of the Runelords to completion, so it is only the changes from that adventure that I would consider 'canon' for my ongoing home-interpretation of Golarion;

The Heroes of Sandpoint befriended and 'civilized' the goblins of Thistletop. Sandpoint now has a small micro-community of good goblins (called either Hope, or Stinkpoint depending on who you ask). Goblins are now unlocked as a playable race in future campaigns.

Ameiko Kaijitsu married dwarf PC Rast Sternhammer and they have a baby called Gara.

The Heroes of Sandpoint involved themself in the elections for the new Mayor of Magnimar and saw Haldeem Grobaras thrown out on his fat arse. Leis Nivlandis is voted in to replace him. There is even a goblin on the city council now (and goblin lawyers!).

The Broken Arrows are restored under human PC Ben Kotek.

The Paradise riverboat is now a floating casino/fortress owned by half-orc PC Grogg.

The lost city of Xin Shalast is found and (following the exodus of Xarzoug's giant allies) reclaimed by the yeti. The yeti are unlocked as a playable race in future campaigns.

That's really neat, in terms of continuity.

Incidentally, on the topic of Numeria, that's another major country I had to change up. Instead of only being famous for being only a crash site of a single ship, I made it so that Numeria was the site of a massive artifact built to channel the energy of the cosmos (well, more or less), that went haywire during one of the cataclysms and wound up summoning a bunch of alien starships and generation ships to Golarion, and severely damaging them. Over time, these "visitants" forgot their origins, but continue to live in the ruins of their ships in varying degrees of development, as well as traveling outside to other lands (this is my way to have a lot more races in the game).

On a more general note, the new nature of Golarion itself means I have a lot more "magic/fantasy" influenced natural landmarks and formations as well, ie like floating mountains and naturally formed portals, etc. etc.

In addition, I really had to pare down a lot of timespans (even the ones I already pared down), and really making sure there weren't just randomly centuries upon centuries where nothing happens.


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keftiu wrote:
Y'know, I've probably got more firearms than the average Golarion. I've got them proliferating quite a bit across Garund, with how much trade flows across the northern bit of the continent - once one group of caravan guards gets their hands on jezails, everybody's gonna want them, and doubly so once bandits start stealing them.

Yeah, me too. To be more specific, I've tied in increasing magic and tech advancement into my new Golarion timeline as well as in certain areas (ie my revamped New Thassilon, to name one), and am building up for a full on "Worlds War" camapign across the solar system.


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Some other things I incorporated into my setting would be "fantasy megastructures" and their ruins in the post apocalypse. This is a major thing even in the base setting (just look at Varisia) but I take a lot more inspiration from Godbound and Exalted (the latter of which I would probably just run as a setting for the former's system if I got the chance).


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Kobold Catgirl wrote:

Oh, one thing I just remembered! I tend to run a Golarion in which homophobia and transphobia exist. I like to do this in part because my games tend to focus a lot on the social role of adventuring in society. Adventuring is an overwhelmingly queer and disability-inclusive profession in my worldbuilding, because, well, I figure you don't generally become an adventurer if everything in your home life is going swimmingly. There's gotta be a reason you've been pushed to the fringes.

Bigotry isn't universal, though. No, Old Deadeye doesn't go around kicking gay penguin couples off of icebergs. In Varisia, where I usually focus my games, it really varies from town to town. Communities with large Varisian or Shoanti populations tend to be a lot more chill. The Chelaxian- and Taldan-dominated cities are rougher. Sandpoint is, of course, an extremely nice place to move to if you're gay or trans, to the extent that it's sort of a regional joke on par with moving to San Francisco.

I don't necessarily harass PCs with it (and I always check in with them at the start of play), but it is a backdrop. Meanwhile, "adventurer bars" are basically gay bars, and you have to be careful when accepting an invitation to join an adventuring party to clarify whether this is an actual adventuring party, an invitation to someone's four-way, or both.

To be fully honest, I'm genuinely torn between the sheer hilarity of the nuances of this and the sheer wrongness I would feel if I were to actually try to portray racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia in any of my games as the actual GM.


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_shredder_ wrote:

My biggest gripe with paizos golarion is how human centric it is, a trope that I never liked in any fantasy media with multiple intelligent ancestries. I find fantasy much more interesting were humans are neither especially common nor especially well liked or influential compared to other ancestries. I was especially disappointed when I read that even absalom is like 80% human, when I always imagened absalom as a fantasy metropolis where all kinds of cultures exist right next to each other, where it's normal to see a conrasu barkeeper or a strix courier and small parts of the city are almost entirely controlles by sprites or poppets.

But it's not a big deal, I just add NPCs to adventures to make uncommon/rare ancestries seem more common and slightly change the lore.

This.

I also modify a lot of races/ancestries in many different ways.

For example, there are differences between elves native to Castrovel and elves from Castrovel that now live on Golarion, not to mention elves found elsewhere. I also am a lot more generous with "racial abilities" for lack of a better term, all to fit the setting better.


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AceofMoxen wrote:
As a general rule, I multiply all population numbers by ten.

This, at the very least.

I'm also vaguely reminded of the executive meddling that produced a Khorvaire (of Eberron fame) ten times the size of the original, completely messing up a bunch of things based on that.


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In terms of "minor" details I've done a bit of work concerning reworking names to have some kind of link to whatever nation/city state/ancestry/whatever the language is associated with in my setting. This is mostly because I feel there's just a lot of really awkward names in the setting as is (although not as bad as some of what you might find in the Forgotten realms).

In terms of the world I really wanted to emphasize the high sci fantasy nature by making the heroes and villains more "super" so to speak which ties into the new lore. I've also redone some nations (ie Cheliax, Nidal, Andoran, Numeria, to name some) as well. I've also really played up the pre existing post-apocalyptic-ness of Golarion.

In terms of cosmology and the universe and stuff I've worked a lot on expanding it and setting up crossovers.


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After reading through my copies of the Rise of the Runelords and Return of the Runelords campaigns, Guns and Gears, and some other books, I decided to post this thread.

What does your current Golarion setting look like, and what changes, major or minor, have you made to the setting to make it your own?

On my end, having been fascinated by the themes and ideas present in the Rise amd Return of the Runelords lore, as well as themes of interworld travel and technology raised throughout the publications of camapigns as well as Guns and Gears, I decided to place much more emphasis in terms of Golarion's legacy affecting both its past and its future.

Specifically, the "ancient age" of Golarion had basically the same themes as Godbound or Exalted, in terms of the great empires that spread across Golarion and their champions (this is my reinterpretation of a lot of the early "god" lore of the setting). Eventually, a vast cataclysm(s) ended this age. The "current" age of Golarion is set some 2000 years more or less after this (I decided to shorten a lot of overly long timespans), in a vastly post apocalyptic world in the ruins of greatness but also in a time of restoration and progress afterwards, although large tracts of the world are still unexplored.

I've also set up a number of crossover points with my other settings, through my Planescape Future "nexus" setting.

I would very much like to see what you have done! Your input is encouraged.


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keftiu wrote:
Android, Automaton, and Poppet are all construct Ancestries in 2e, while we’re still waiting on 1e’s Wyrwoods to come over. Between those options, is there construct stuff you still feel isn’t covered?

Huh. Not much at this point, besides surprise at the amount of choices for this kind of thing in the setting.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I don't mind robots and tech in my fantasy, I'm just not sure when I would use the book other than "when we're doing an adventure in Numeria". If there's more of a justification for a "hypertech Guns and Gears" than "one part of the map" then I'd love to hear about it.

Fwiw a "hypertech/supertech Guns and Gears" wouldn't actually be a bad starting design point, considering Guns and Gears was as much lore (and story/plot points, etc.) as it was mechanics.

The big thing I would want though is for it to emphasize player and GM design and a sort of tech level table so to speak to base off of.

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