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This is not a serious suggestion, but one idea I had as a potential book would be a gazetteer of the second tier factions, each one tied to a remastered version of one of the non-core classes. The idea would be basically a way to have another class book but in the format of non-core rulebook releases, and would look a lot like the Adventurer Guide or Villain Codex in presentation.

Tier 2 factions (factions big enough to have NPCs in the Character Guide but not a full write up):Aldori Swordlords, Apsis Corporation, Bellflower Network, Eagle Knights, Houses of Perfection, Lion Blades, Red Mantis Society, and Whispering Way

Non Core class: Gunslinger, Inventor, Magus, Psychic, Summoner, Thaumaturge

So, as a prompt for everyone, what classes would you match up with which faction if you were writing this book? Feel free to use a class archetype'd version of the class if that makes the most sense: for instance a wizard who can prepare any common primal spell in their school slot would have been interesting for the Maagabmyan Academy. And since there are 8 factions but 6 classes, what new or returning class might you use to fill in the blank?

Or if you have a different idea on how a book for the 6 remastered classes might look, feel free to share that instead.

With PaizoCon is two weeks away and Gencon coming up fast, I thought it'd be fun to start speculating on the next few books coming out.

We know for sure that Tian Xia Lost Omens books are in the works, and Howl of the Wild (which my brain has dubbed "Where the Wild Things Are") was just announced this morning. With those in the pipeline, what else would you like to see?

For myself, the unscratched itches are:

Bestiary Book: Spirits Lost and Found - All about various kinds of spirits, though by preference leaning heavily on Divine. In general some advice on handling incorporeality at the table. Possibly also including an ancestry that goes at least partially incorporeal some of the time from level 1. I'd also love if both Mediums and Shaman showed up in this. Mediums to be the more martial, body focused class (makes heavy use of the multiclass archetype feats to allow "channeling" ghosts and other spirits so that you can borrow their abilities, probably also picking up Synthecist summoning along the way), and Shaman as an innately flexible caster than can choose to lock themselves out of their spellslots to pick up focus spells and passive abilities (including a mechanic that resembles Unstable letting you cast a focus spell without focus).

General Options: Building Trust - A somewhat more GM focused book that expands on Honor, Social Encounters, Research, and other exploration subsystems that pertain to social/mental skills. Featuring the Auspex class, a divine offensive martial that are even more focussed than clerics or champions, as they push the agenda of a specific domain. As they are in a book using skill systems, they ideally interact pretty well with skills themselves, including sharing skill feats related to their chosen domain with their party.

Campaign Theming: Into the Darklands - Not going to lie, at least 2/3rds of my interest in such a title would be getting a Solarian knock-off into PF2. But given what JJ has mentioned about the need to address LOTS of stuff in the darklands, I can see this getting moved to the top of the list. Ancestries, new character options, expansions on the rules coming out of the Highhelm AP, anything you'd need to have an entire campaign underground, this would be your sourcebook.

Lost Omens (not getting as deep into these, as I'm kind of tired):

Big Setting - Arcadia. 'Nuff said.

Rogues Gallery - Masters of Styles - ton of masters of combat styles from across Golarian, who will teach characters techniques (or use them against your characters)

Character Options - Prophecy/Harrow - Much of the harrow has already been put into PF2, but I wouldn't mind still more expansion on that topic, especially if it is part of a larger book about prophetic techniques and how broken prophecy has further affected diviners

Faction - Hellknights - Ideally tying into an organization book proposed above, but something updating Hell Knight lore to current PF2 design principles would be welcome, including new Hellknight factions.

So, what do we want to see in Rage of the Elements? The designers chatted a bit about it, but by necessity focused on the planes themselves and the Kineticist.

Granted, those two parts are probably going to be half the book, but moving past those, what other options would we want to see in this book? I'm specifically focused on character options, but if you want to see specific bits of lore, feel free to mention it.

Off the top of my head:

- Metal and Wood elemental cantrips. More cantrips in general, but I always want that.
- A barbarian instinct that is focused on throwing bits of elemental matter. Sanityfaire's thread got me thinking of it, and now I want it. Although this may work better as an archetype, to allow Rangers, Rogues, and investigators to also play in this pool.
- Genie summoners! A new arcane eidolon for the summoner class.
- More Elemental monks. Let's get bending!
- Metal druids. Also Metal witches. I loved my Iron witch in Arcana Evolved, but for PF2 I could see lessons based around the decay/rust aspects of Metal.
- Two new planetouched heritages. Maybe a fully elemental ancestry as well? I want to play as a Mephit.
- Elemental wizard schools?
- Class archetype that allows clerics and psychics to use the elementalist list. Also an expansion of the elementalist spell list and archtype in general.
- A couple new options for the Elemental sorcerer bloodline.

Basically, anything that already dabbles in elemental magic/themes, I want more.

One of the issues with talking about the kineticist on here is that many of us have different versions of the class in our heads.

I’ve asked in previous threads what people want to see, and what themes they’d like explored with the class, and others have talked about what tradition they’d like to see. In particular, people keep saying they’d like to see Avatar as a base inspiration, but what would that look like at the table?

My question for everyone is this this: what might a round look like for the kineticist that lives in your head? I’d like mechanical details, but don’t worry about balance or levels or anything like that. I’m more interested in stuff like: what proficiencies does their ability reference, what damage type might they have, what specific actions do they do (names, action costs, some descriptions).

I’d like to ask that no one get too worked up over the specifics of other peoples posts. Like I said, balance is thrown out, I want to see what mechanics you think you’d need to serve the class fantasy you want to see. What WOULD let you play Katarra or Aang or BeiFong? Or Cyclops or Carrie if those are the direction you’d like to see them go.

Probably my greatest personal disappointment with PF2 has been the lack, so far, of additional class path or subclass options. There’s been a few released after the initial class was released, but only a few.

But assuming the floodgates once again unclock, what would people like to see?

Two of mine (partly inspired by discussion in another thread):
1. Firearm/gunsmith path for Alchemist. Alchemists are largely responsible for firearms in Golarian, but re absolutely terrible at using them. I’d like to see something done to…reconcile that shall we say?
2. Explosions/Firearms for the Inventor. Related, I wanted to see more specific interaction between the Guns and Gears portions of G&G, and an entire explosives innovation for the Inventor might fit in nicely. I’m imagining some boffin absolutely incensed that, good, reliable siege weaponry is run by something as woo as alchemy, and working hard to apply science to the tech.

Other stuff: a helmet Innovation, an animated dream Eidolon, Death druids, Divine Operative methodology.

What are some of yours?

Yes, yet another kineticist thread, but I actually have a different thing I want to talk about: what narrative themes does the class mean to people?

I am (probably quite firmly) on record as wanting a slotless caster, but not particularly caring what class actually gets attached to that mechanic. As long as it has caster proficiencies but no slots, I’m happy (meaning the alchemist in some ways hits this for me, if had been just a bit more magical). But we all know that the current PF2 designers normally don’t think like that when designing classes. They start narrative first; what kinds of stories does this class design reference, what RP is enabled, what characters aren’t well served by current mechanics that could use more?

For the PF1 kineticist, for example:

Ascalaphus wrote:

Eh, they're different but also similar. Kineticist clearly gives a big nod to bending from Avatar, and the power source tends to be more impersonal. But there was enough archetype support for more uncanny types of energy to throw around so you could certainly make a good facsimile of a warlock with it. And both classes catered to the "blast all day" niche.

I thought this as well, but then Paizo actually explained that it was inspired by Carrie O_O

The psion or mage that burns themselves inside out channeling power seems to have been the starting point. I suspect it was a “take-two” riff on the 3.5 warlock, the same way the witch was an earlier design that was inspired by the same 3.5 class, but the metric ton of horror and gritty fantasy tropes about burn also inspired it (I also just finished the Wheel of Time tv series, so that example is fresh in my mind).

Is this still something people want to see in PF2? What kind of mechanics might enable that? And what other kinds of characters/stories/roleplay do people associate with the class and want to see come back?

Please cancel my subscription to the Lost Omens line, and also the accompanying PFS subscription.

There's no real indication they're doing anything but kicking around concepts at this point, but I'm going to go ahead and start this thread to get the kids off my lawn.

So, like it says on the cover, what do you want to see in a kineticist?

My personal wants:
-Run off focus instead of burn. Worst case, your top level abilities can use a font/infusion like mechanic. Anything except either spell slots or dropping your HP with unhealable damage in a game where it is possible to have full health after each fight (now that lethal and non-lethal damage are no longer separate).
--to clarify, focus would be used to reduce actions or empower a basic at-will ability, which would most likely be a focus cantrip.
-Kinetic blasts as spell attacks, not unarmed strikes, and using Con as their spell attack ability.
-Arcane flavored. I think using the power of the kineticist's mind to reach through the ether to reach elemental planes most closely matches arcane's combination of mental and material essences, as well as follows the description of PF1 kineticists, which was: "At 1st level, a kineticist chooses one primary element on which to focus. This element determines how she accesses the raw power of the Ethereal Plane, and grants her access to specific wild talents (see below) and additional class skills."
--This hits something of a flavor mismatch when you use either Wood element or Elysian infusions, but I'm willing to live with it.

As reference points, I strongly suggest looking at the Azerketi ancestry and some of the unarmed strike feats in the ancestry guide, which shows some of the ideas the developers are kicking around. I personally would prefer some of those not be moved forward, but I wouldn't be shocked if they did either.

Do you hear that sound?
That’s the sound of hundreds of gamers around various tables calling out “Dibs!” and “I saw him first I get to romance him first!” all at once.

The natural lead out for this campaign is, of course, Ruby Phoenix, but what other ideas might you have to extend this campaign past level 10?

I had some off the cuff ideas, but I thought it might be interesting to see what others thought:

Option 1: Obviously, there's a shadow version of the Gauntlight in the Shadow plane. And you dealing with the material plane version has caused structural damage to it. While it held up, it was a solid Fetchling stronghold, but now various creatures have seized their chance to invade and try to take over the vaults.

D'ziriak, Shadow Wisps, a Shadow Yai, a family of Umbral dragons, Velstrac, and various undead all vie for individual levels, sometimes fighting the established denizens, and sometimes each other. A Fetchling dream prophet guides you to the lighthouse, begging you to come assist them from being wiped out.

Of course, other factions may try to earn your assistance as well. Playing each group off each other is the only way to survive in the long run, given how far you are from home. Along the way to the final level (passing through the individual layers of protections the fetchlings had used to seal off travel between levels in their hasty retreat), you can also encounter more neutral and even good allies, such as a colony of Fungus Leshies that had become trapped on the 8th level, led by a Shadowy fey.

Option 2: Nhimbaloth has not entirely forgotten you. Well, actually, she has (elder god after all, would you notice an ant?), but her herald has not. Given her herald is a level 23 troop of Dread Wisps (called the Breath of Nhimbaloth), this might prove...interesting when it decides to help and harass your party, as fits its mood.
Feeding it Undead, including advanced Shadow Wisps, might help its mood.

Option 3: No good deed goes unpunished. The complete collapse of the Gauntlight into itself killed a LOT of people. Enough to cause an entire series of undead and haunts, some that have begun to spread out. Someone probably ought to deal with that.

No reason these ideas can't be combined as well. Instead of structural damage, the collapse and creation of undead might have resulted in an influx of Nightshades on the Shadow Plane side of things. Even one or two could be enough to have caused the initial retreat, and the sudden rush to take advantage by other creatures.

Plus I always liked Nightshades. I think I'd enjoy converting them to PF2.

As the previous threads on this topic seems to be six months to a year old, rather than pulling either back up, I'd like to start fresh in light of what we now know about the SoM and GG classes, as well as the new developments over in SF land.

I was somewhat inspired by the "Solarian" thread, in that I would like to see both that and about half a dozen other SF classes make something of a jump to Pathfinder. I would like to see the flavor updated to be more in line with the higher fantasy of Pathfinder, so maybe not a "Nanocyte" class, but instead a "Shadowcrafter" or "Mistweaver" taht covers similar mechanics with new fluff. Mistweaver was a random name but I'm suddenly thoughtful about it. There's enough sinister and beneficial connotations associated with the concept of "Mist" to cover all 5 Nanocyte faculties in the playtest.

An artificer/crafter class was a popular ask from the last threads, but now that we have something of that in the Inventor, I continue to want to see:
-Focus/Cantrip classes (possibly based on porting over SF classes in fact)
-Envoy/Marshall/Warleader class
-Something having to do with manipulating fortune effects
-Waterslethe's idea of "Dragon/Monster, the class" (a synthecist summoner/shifter may get us close to this)

Edit: Revising because why not?

I'm going to turn this thread into a collection of all my various homebrew, rather than littering the forum with each wild idea I pull out. First up, Antiquarian!

I haven't decided if this will be a full class in its own right or a class archetype for the Alchemist.

Here is the link to the placeholder document: Antiquarian. I will make modifications there, and update this thread accordingly.

Elevator pitch:
More than a keeper of lost lore and hoarder of ancient objects, an antiquarian is able to sense and make use of the resonant psychic energy in items and places. Antiquarians channel their psychic might through implements-items that allow them to focus their power and produce incredible effects.

Basics: A support class along the lines of the Alchemist (I seem to like them), my plan is to swap out Alchemy for Resonance, which is the same concept but allows the crafting of magic items like Talismans, Scrolls, and Potions. I'll also steal my own idea from the Medium class and give them "Haunts" that are magical snares.

Unlike the Alchemist, I plan for 2 modifications: master weapon proficiency at level 15, and a suite of level 0 items that can be Quick Crafted but do not consume resonance when you do so.

Oh, and I'm just going to give them Enduring "Alchemy" because screw THAT feat tax.

Besides feats that are available to scroll trickster, talisman dabbler, and revised versions of the snare crafter feats, I'll also throw in Archeologist ones. Haven't decided how potions will work, but I'll think of something.

In order to test some of my theories, I ran a level 7 Tengu Drifter through the final level of Abomination Vault 1.

Yes, I am aware Ji-Woo is Korean, not Japanese, but character refused to be called anything that did not start with the sound "Ji".

Craft is a weird addition to the class, when you don't actually do anything with it. I'm certain now that I'd like a 1st level class feat that gives basic alchemical benefits and the ability to use reagents to craft bullets for free every day.

I was pleasantly shocked when Blast Lock actually saw use, though I did eventually switch it out for Risky Reload. I hadn't realized how powerful the ability to pick a lock at ranged is in this edition, with no equivalent of Ranged Legerdemain so far. Even more once legendary proficiency kicks in, 2 levels ahead of the ability to get legendary thievery.

Alchemical Shot seems to have too many drawbacks for its utility. It is essentially a Striking Spell kind of mechanic, except limited to a certain weapon group and with an extra drawback. I would remove the misfire chance on a failure, and only have it happen on a critical failure, as it is bad enough to spend 3 actions on something that might not hit at all.

Sword and Pistol wasn't as useful as I hoped, but others have made the case for that already.

I wish Reloading Strike worked to accommodate Unarmed/2hander style, but as it was I didn't bother with it. The Dueling Pistol was my backup, not my main weapon.

In fact, I didn't really care for Misfire at all, aside from something like Risky Reload. A Strike ability that is an action saver makes sense to have as a failure state an action penalty, but otherwise it was more annoying than flavorful. If Alchemical Shot and Scatter Blast were 1 action instead of 2, Misfire would make more sense on those abilities, though even there I'd still prefer failure to simply fail and only misfire on a crit failure (with Scatter Shot, having no damage at all on a failure when you'd normally at least get splash damage is penalty enough).

As I suspected, getting splash damage felt different than getting fatal damage, even if they roughly mathed out to equally damaging abilities (scatter being slightly stronger if you can get multiple enemies in the cone). I personally preferred being able to at least pick away at bosses even on a miss. My perception may have been slightly colored by being able to light the Worm that Walks on fire; as it turns out I don't mind using 3 actions on an enemy that I can hit on a 7 and that reliably got hit for around 1/4 the creatures health on a hit (2 got the max 26 damage). I didn't crit at all that fight (rolled badly, even misfired twice), but at least it was over in 7 rounds even with my luck.

That said, the Dueling pistol did have a few moments in the sun. I ran away from the poltergeist the first time I encountered her, but came back once I had a second ghost touch rune. I crit with a Ghost Charge'd shot against a poltergeist (37+6 persistent positive damage), followed up with my ghost touch beak (13 damage). And poof went Candace the Unfriendly laundry maid.

Reload continues to be a killer. That really needs to be addressed in the final version of this class. In a game where bows did not exist, I think it might be fine to have all range strikes take 2 actions per strike (though firearms are arguably not high range enough to be truly "ranged"), but bows are just way too powerful. As a patch, I propose a solution that I call "Reactive Reload", to be introduced as a general feat but given to Gunslingers as a bonus feat at level 1.

Reactive Reload ↙ General Feat 3
Trigger You make a strike with a reload weapon.
Interact to reload your weapon if it is reload 1 or less, or reduce the number of actions needed to reload your weapon by 1.

Final thought: I actually enjoyed myself a lot more than I thought. It had an uphill battle because I enjoyed Midnightoker's Drifter homebrew so much, but in the end I had fun. I think I'll continue this character into the next AP entry, except surrender to the inevitable and revise it to just be a dual class alchemist/gunslinger character. Though I'm keeping all the treasure I scrounged up in this entry. He is a Tengu, after all.

I really like this "add 1 damage" enchantment that we see on this and a couple of the beginner box items. I hope some form of it comes out as a general low-level weapon enhancer.

Can the older threads on the Pathfinder Second Edition/Paizo products subform be migrated to a new, visible location? We are able to discuss things on the product page itself of course, but that is only for items currently posted, not stuff further down the pipeline.

Discussions like this thread (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42x9u?Books-you-would-like-to-see-in-the-Futu re) are currently obscured, and have been ever since the new Pathfinder Beginner Box subforum was added.

These two orders were unfortunately miss shipped to my old address, and I'm told the building owner sent them back to Paizo. I just want to confirm that you did in fact receive the returned packages, and I would like to reorder all 4 items.

As this was mostly due to my own error, if I need to pay the shipping charge again, that is perfectly acceptable. In fact, if you could combine these items with one of my upcoming shipments, that would be ideal from my point of view.

I sent an email regarding the first package in September, but have not yet received a reply. I was holding off on writing a second email so as to not further clog the mail queue, but at this time I'll make this single thread for both shipments and you can simply discard the emails.

In a fit of madness, I decided to tackle an update of the Medium class. As this version is quite different from both the OA playtest AND the final version, I decided to place it here rather than in the conversion subforum.

Medium Class, version 1

All class features and class feats up to level 4 (as well as a couple level 6 ones) are written, though I'm sure there's some clean up left to do.

Apologies that I'm not using the format everyone else uses; I get confused trying to use PF Scribe.

In the spirit of my previous incorrect guess, I'm going to go ahead and start the ball rolling on this one.

I am firmly convinced that an Inventor class will be announced within the next year, possibly within the next few weeks when the playtest goes up next month. There's just been too many hints, too many NPCs in both LO Legends and LO Pathfinder Society (I counted, there's about 10 named Inventors, Smiths, or Engineers between those two books) for me to think it is all just smoke with no fire. So I'd like to speculate to see what it might be, and get all of your thoughts as well.

Inventor:
-Largely built on the Alchemist chassis, the inventor gets a series of Epiphanies that work like field discoveries (minor to major improvements on whatever item the Inventor specializes in).
-3 or 4 area of focus to start: Talismans, Tools*, Smithing, Gunslinging. I wouldn't mind seeing a more steampunk or artificer slant with golems and/or mecha suits.
-*Strong possibility that this one winds up an Alchemist research field instead. That actually makes more sense to me, but Avernus (one of the named inventors) seems to specialize in Alchemist Tools, so I put it here for completeness.
-Similar ability to craft items for free each day. Talismans, Tools, and Gunslinger (bullets) are relatively easy to guess, but I'm vaguely stumped on Smithing. Perhaps temporary runes are coming? I would also not mind an ability like Inventive Offensive which allows you to apply traits to your weapons temporarily. Something that gives bonus HP or hardness to your shield would work well too.

As they get neither strong healing nor bombs, I would wager that Inventors are somewhat better at striking than alchemists, and have closer to martial proficiency. This would also allow them to be the baseline Gun martial.

The inventor class would also need some other baseline abilities that are different than a knock-off alchemist, or they may as well combine the two classes (or make the inventor a class archetype that swaps out Alchemy crafting for other kinds). What might that be, assuming this is indeed coming? If this is absorbing the Gunslinger class, perhaps some old grit abilities?

Howdy. I organized some notes for my own use, but like my Basic Ancestry Guide, thought others might find my analysis useful.

For the below, I list the levels in order of how common, for instance 3/5/7-9 means the chassis gets something most commonly at 3rd, then 5th, then at 7th or 9th just as frequently. The dashed frequency almost always means only one class gets the feature at that level so far.

Caster Chassis guidelines:
-2 class features and a "feat" (usually either a bonus feat or focus spell from your subclass) at 1st level, plus your spell casting. These can be formatted in various ways; for instance the bard muse is both a class feature and a feat, where a cleric's doctrine I only count as a feat. Sorcerer bloodline counts as both class features and the "feat" due to how much it gives out.
-Capstone class feature at 19th or (rarely) 17th.
-1 expert save at 1st. 2nd by 3/5/9. 3rd by 9/5-11-13.
-1 master save by 17/9/11/7.
-If getting a legendary save, that's at 17th and the master save before at 7th or 9th.
-Expert Weapons 11, Weapon Specialization 13, Armor expertise 13,
-Alertness at 11/5-3-1. Only bards get Master Perception so far, and they get that at 11.
-Expert Casting at 7th, Master 15, Legendary 19

Martial Chassis Guidelines:
-At least 2 class features and a class feat at 1st, determined by the player irrespective of subclass. For this purpose, I count the fighter's higher proficiency with certain weapons as a class feature.
-At least 1 additional class feature at both 9th and 19th, plus 3 more at various levels for a total of 7 class features. 3rd and 11th are popular levels, but each class does it slightly differently.
--Swashbucklers are an exception, and get a total of 11 class features, proving that a class that has a lot of features might not translate to at-table power.
-2 expert saves at 1st. About half the martials get their 3rd save at 9th, but others at 3/7-1.
-Master save 1 at 7/11/9. Master save 2 by 15-11/17.
-1 Legendary save at 13/15/17. Fighters and Champions do not get one.
-Expert Weapons at 5, Master 13 (fighters getting increased proficiency at the same levels with certain weapons as their class feature). Weapons specialization at 7th, Greater at 15th.
-Armor expertise is generally at 13, but 1 each get it at 1-7-11. Master armor at 19/13/17. The two that get master at 13 get legendary at 17.
-Class DC goes to expert->master at 9->17, 11->19, or 9->19.

Others
Alchemists and Warpriests are weird, and should not be used as guidelines for the most part (though I'm basing my Medium off the alchemist chassis, so grain of salt there).

I do not have enough examples of the Rolling casters (Magus and Summoners) to draw too many conclusions, though they seem to be following a rough martial chassis with a focus spell instead of a picked class feat at 1st, if you assume the Eidolon's proficiencies are the real ones and the summoner's are the bonus class feature ones. Apparently they will have a lvl 1 feat to choose in the final version, but we'll see. No legendary proficiency at all on either though.

My Analysis
Part 2
Ignore the blue ones, those are just homebrew WIP

In order to encourage rampant speculation and, frankly, because I'm bored right now, I'd like to ask the forum what they think the next rulebook after Secrets of Magic will be, and what classes will be in it. If we follow the pattern of 3 rulebooks a year, there should be a late 2021 release still to be announced. So I'd like to get the ball rolling in guessing what it will be.

A couple rules for this game:

1. Name the book and theme. Can be as vague or as tight of a theme as you'd like, but please bear in mind that they're looking at books that can be dropped into or out of a campaign to heavily tilt the theme of it, the way Ultimate Intrigue really went deep into Intrigue and Social Encounter type of playing.
2. Name the 3 classes you think will be in that book. All should in some way relate to the book's theme. You can pick fewer than 3, but what fun would that be?
2a. Of the 3, one should not be based on a PF1 class. What new thing do you think they're cooking up for us?

I'll start. I actually have 2 ideas, but I'll stick with 1 for now.

Rulebook: Art of Technology
An equipment focused book, featuring several types of items and how they fit into the setting. Also includes rules for adjusting the technology of the setting from Bronze Age to High Futuristic, with new items to support each of these technological levels. Basically take the tech chapter of Ultimate Combat, the magic item section of Ultimate Magic, the entire Technology guide, a sampling of items inspired by Ultimate Equipment (suitably updated to PF2), and a passel of new rules and character options intended to make use of or craft up the equipment in new ways, and put it out as a release.

Featured Class
1. Antiquarian (renamed Occultist)- An Occult Partial caster, they draw on the power of seemingly ordinary objects, though whether they imbue the objects with their own abilities or simply tap into overlooked potential is a matter of debate. The three main groupings are Relic Masters, Runic Mages, and Talisman Crafters.
2. Drifter (renamed and expanded Gunslinger)- With a steady hand and a stern gaze, these men and women rarely go looking for fights, but they certainly finish them, sometimes before they truly begin. Armed not just with pistols or blades, they draw on powerful reactions called Retorts based on the actions of their enemies and allies, and are also able to make further use of fortune and misfortune effects than any other character. Depending on how they make use of fortune, Drifters are categorized as either the Bold, the Desperate, or the Chaotician.
3. Inventor - Taking the tried and true as mere starting points, Inventors push equipment to their limits and then passed. Focusing on non-alchemical crafting, the basic ability of an inventor is to manipulate and add traits onto equipment, mostly weapons and armor, but some also gain the ability to add traits to other types of equipment as well (note: this would require a new pool of traits for general items). All inventors have an uncanny knack for improvising weapons and armor out of almost anything. Some of these jury-rigged contraptions are as deadly to the inventors as their enemies, but an inventor is always learning, even from their own mistakes.
I really want to justify making Inventors partial primal casters, because that would be hilarious, but it just doesn't fit the theme

A pretty minor homebrew, but one that I need to get into writing or it will continue to occupy a corner of my mind until it is out of there.

2 new conditions:

Staggered: Similar to Stunned, except that instead of losing actions, you lose your reactions. Staggered usually includes a value, which indicates how many total reactions you lose, possibly over multiple turns, from being staggered. Each round, you may use your reaction to reduce your staggered value by 1. Staggered might also have a duration instead of a value, such as “staggered for 1 minute.” In this case, you lose all your reactions for the listed duration, as you are essentially using your reaction every round for the duration reducing that duration.

Ardent: You gain an additional reaction that you can use. Ardent sometimes has a value. In that case, you gain a number of reactions equal to your ardent value each round that you are ardent. If ardent does not have a value, it is treated as if its value is 1. Many effects that make you ardent specify what reaction you may take using this extra reaction. If you become ardent from multiple sources, your ardent value does not increase, but you can use any single reaction allowed by any of the effects that made you ardent up to a number of times equal to your ardent value. You may also always use your ardent reaction to reduce your staggered condition. You may use the extra reaction in the same round that you are become ardent.

I'd never played, or even read, this particular AP before, so I decided to try my hand at converting it to Second Edition. I had to make pretty extensive use of PF Easytools, but thanks to that I managed to avoid having to create any creature stat blocks of my own.

Shadow in the Sky
Milestone note: Adventurers start at level 1, should reach level 2 before the Attack on the Foamrunner, level 3 as they enter the caverns under the Golden Goblin, and level 4 by the end of the module.

For those tracking XP, in order to pull this off, I had to create a new Influence encounter to open the adventure and add the set piece into the story at level 1.

Use the following stat blocks. In some case, I swapped out the monster entirely, changing the encounter slightly.

Riddleport Thief Elite Rebel
Riddleport Thug Abberton Ruffians
Angvar Dhampir Wizard Replace Grim Tendrils with Lock
Thuvallia Nalla, Rebel Leader Replace Telekinetic Projectile with Daze
Saul Vancas Burgler
Cindersnake Sea Snake
Lymas Smeed Noble
Otsk Icy Rat
Beltias Kruen Doppleganger
Braddikar Faie Watch Officer
Jaskar Gant Pruana Two-Punch Increase speed 5' and remove chainmail
Croat Thugs Bloody Blade Mercenaries
Wererat Wererat Apply Elite template
Bojask Archer Sentry
Flesh Eating Cockroach Swarm Cockroach Swarm
Swamp Barracuda Tatzlwyrm
Darkland Sentinel Icicle Snake
Fungal Crawler Fungus Leshy Apply Elite
Aquatic Grick Greater Shadow Wisp
Depora Azrinae Ship Captain Divine Innate spells as Drow Fighter
Dretches Shadow Drake

So, in a blatant rip-off of Inqusitive Teifling's thread, my question to the forum is, what do we want out of a shifter?

I didn't put a lot of thought into it, but on the chance we get a playtest for it later this year, might as well start.

I think I want Ooze, Animal, Dragon, and Plant forms from level 1. Construct and Undead are problematic, and the various planar entities (including Fey) I'd rather push out to later books.

Something that perked my interest during the adventure path panel was Paizo mentioning that while players seem to mostly interested in seeing particular locations in Adventure Paths, the devs are more likely to be excited by a particularly strong theme.

With that in mind, I thought I'd ask everyone, what theme do you want to see explored? Be as specific or esoteric as you please: "Kingdom Building", "Giants", "Civil Insurrection", and "Cosmic Horror" have all been themes used, so there's some variation on how big your idea needs to be to get traction. Naturally, I'd also like to hear where you'd set it.

Here are my top 4 wants:

1. Occult themes. I feel through several decades of play, we have a pretty solid handle on "Primal", "Arcane", and "Divine", but I want them to take the time to really establish what Occult means in PF2, and where it is different not just from previous takes on Dungeons and Dragons, but even what changed between PF1 and PF2 (for instance, I sort of feel Psychics no longer fit into the "Occult" bucket, and are thematically and mechanically closer to being the spontaneous Arcane caster than prepared Occult). Rituals, folk magic, invocation of legends, psychadelia, spirit summoning, all of it. I think Razmiran or Nidal would be good places to base these, with perhaps excursions to the Shadow plane and other transitive planes like the Dreamlands or the Dimension of Time.

2. I want to see work put into decoupling all the spell traditions from the trappings of their main associated classes, to work on for instance having the Arcane list feel distinct from the Wizard class, and even more so in the case of Druids/Primal and Clerics/Divine. New archetypes and old organizations that access the traditions in interesting ways should play a part. I think the Impossible lands would be a good place for this one, with elemental monks, the weird landscape of the Mana Wastes, guns making mockery of the old rules of martial combat, and so on.

3. There's a description of the Arcadian continent that the Western half is very lightly settled. I want to know why. I want to know if the Arcadians know why. If Aranzi knows anything. This would be the case of a fragmented legend becoming slowly revealed to the players, and then the players killing it to bits.

4. A vigilante adventure path. Most APs you can’t really dictate a pc’s class, but the free archetype variant could make the concept work. This would be the Batman on Golarian Adventure path, more or less. I’m hard pressed to think of a better place than Galt to stick this, but Ustalav or again Razmiran might work too.

I've been playing with some ideas for a class that is based around an AOE ability like the 3.5 dragonfire adept, but with different flavor due to wanting something a little different. I wound up not quite satisfied with how well I tied the flavor into it, but oh well.

Still unfinished, but I wouldn't mind feedback on the class abilities I've written so far:

Dreamshaper Class
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSZOsywvFbyA1DfbHfzY7nve1UGtSDP kSSqvR_HaL-F0Iltn1ROpIiIfySeKsJljej3Ep7If8D1phU2/pub

Here are the salient bits:

First Dream
Before they learned to see the morphic nature of reality, Dreamshapers first followed a particular dream into the Dimension of Dreams. This first path forever shapes your connection to that dimension, adding a cantrip to your spell repertoire and granting you a class feat.
Fantastical - You are shaped pleasant day dreams and fancies. You learn the Dancing Light cantrip and gain the Dazzle Effect dreamshaper feat.
Insightful - Whether prophetic or simply presenting a daylight problem in a new form that allows you to solve it, you were shaped by dreams of insight. You learn the Detect Magic cantrip and gain the Finding Effect dreamshaper feat.
Nightmare - Dreams of darkness, madness, or monsters from the furthest realms have shaped your connection. You learn the Daze cantrip and gain the Fear Effect dreamshaper feat.

Figments
You can impose the morphic nature of the Dimension of Dreams onto the material plane via unique spells called Figments. A Figment is a type of focus spell. It costs 1 Focus Point to cast a focus spell, and you start with a focus pool of 1 Focus Point. You refill your focus pool during your daily preparations, and you can regain 1 Focus Point by spending 10 minutes using the Refocus activity to daydream, attempt to read signs, or otherwise engage your dimensional connection.

You also gain access to a special figment called Dreamwarp. A Dreamwarp is a cantrip figment that does not require the use of a focus point to cast, and allows you to choose from several options each time you cast it to create just the effect you need, including the choice to spend a focus point to reduce the number of actions to cast. Learning new options for your dreamwarps is done via class feats.
At first level, you know the following options:
Area: Cone 15’, Line 30’
Damage: Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing
Effect: Empower, Hasten

Widen Warp - Level 3
You expand the area of your dreamwarp. At 3rd level, your base area options increase to 30’ cone and 60’ line. At 11th level, they increase again to 60’ cone and 120’ line.

Morphic Master - Level 19
You can achieve seemingly impossible feats with your dreamwarps. The dreamwarp damage die increases to 1d6 (1d8 when empowered) and you can now apply 2 damage options (spell deals 10d6 for each selected option) and 2 effect options to each dreamwarp you cast.

Dreamwarp Cantrip 1
{Uncommon} {Dreamshaper} {Cantrip} {Evocation} {Flourish}
Cast somatic, verbal
Saving Throw basic Reflex
You channel the morphic nature of the Dimension of Dreams to change reality itself before you. Choose from the options available to you to create an area effect. A dreamwarp must have one each of Area, Damage, and Effect options.
All Dreamshapers know the following options:
Area
Cone: 15’ Cone
Line: 30’ Line
Damage
Bludgeoning: 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier bludgeoning This damage is both physical and magical.
Piercing: 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier piercing This damage is both physical and magical.
Slashing: 1d4 + your spellcasting modifier slashing. This damage is both physical and magical.
Effect
Empower: Damage die is increased from 1d4 to 1d6
Hasten: Casting changes to Cast somatic; Cost 1 focus point
Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 1d4.

I still have to write all of the class feats, but it'll be some basic casting ones (reach spell, widen spell, steady spellcasting, overwhelming energy, and magical sense), along with about 10-15 dreamwarp options and as many focus spells as I can find that fit the theme, hopefully at least 4 powers each for the First Dreams.

I'm sharing my notes on how I would create a basic ancestry, mostly compiled while trying to convert the Warforged to PF2, and refined by analyzing the current heritages trying to notice patterns.

Here are the patterns I've noticed.

Base Stats
Defaults: 6hp, 25' speed. Choose a mental boost, physical boost, and 1 flaw. The character also gets a free boost.
Races get between 1-3 points to spend on the following:
HP: 1pt for +2hp, max 2 pts
Speed: 2pts +5ft
Vision: 1pt Low-Light Vision, 2pt Darkvision
Attribute: 2pts for no flaw and 2 free boosts
Heritage: 1pt Additional passive ability equivalent to a heritage

Distribution of current ancestries
1pt: Halfling
2pt: Dwarf, Gnome, Goblin, Human, Shoonie
3pt: Elf, Hobgoblin, Leshy, Lizardfolk

Options
Requirements to select an option are in parenthesis. At each level, you can also choose an option from the proceeding level. Almost needless to say, but unless otherwise stated, any choices are made by the DM, not the player. Also, please note that many of the below options are deliberately underpowered compared to official options.

Basic Heritages
Choose 4. Most can be chosen multiple times.
Bonus General Feat: Choose a 1st level general feat to be given as a bonus feat.
Environmental Resistance: Choose between Cold, Heat, or Poison Adaptation.
Cold: Gain cold resistance equal to 1/2 level, rounded up. Environmental effects of cold are 1 step less severe for PC. Environmental effects of heat are 1 step more severe.
Heat: Gain fire resistance equal to 1/2 level, rounded up. Environmental effects of heat are 1 step less severe for PC. Environmental effects of cold are 1 step more severe.
Poison: Gain poison resistance equal to 1/2 level, rounded up, and successes against poisons are one step more successful.
Equivalent ones can also created, for instance:
Storm: Gain electricity resistance equal to 1/2 level, rounded up. Reduce the penalty from precipitation environmental effects by 1.
Health Bonus: Increase HP from Ancestry to 10.
Movement bonus: Choose between Climbing, Flying, Stepping, or Swimming:
Climbing, Flying, or Swimming: Treat a success as crit success when a check is required.
Stepping: Choose a terrain type from the Favored Terrain feat. The PC can ignore difficult terrain when striding or stepping in that terrain.
Perception Bonus: Gain an imprecise sense with a range of 30 ft.
Skilled: Gain +2 to a specific untrained skill task.
Spell Save bonus: Choose a spell trait. As a reaction, the player can gain +2 against spells of that trait.
Storage Upgrade: Bulk encumbrance limit is increased by 2. Max bulk remains the same.
Vision upgrade: Gain low-light vision, or darkvision if the ancestry already has low-light vision.
Unarmed strike Upgrade: Either gain lethal melee unarmed strike, or an unarmed strike loses the nonlethal trait.

1st level ancestry feat
Choose 6
Action training: (character able to perform the chosen action) Choose an action that requires a check (besides strike). Gain +2 to that check.
Ancestral Lore: Choose a skill. The character becomes trained in that skill and in the lore of the ancestry. If the character is already trained in that skill, they may choose a different skill to be trained in.
Bonus Feat: Choose a feat type. The player chooses a bonus feat of that type.
Bonus Heritage: The character gains a bonus equivalent to a heritage.
Cantrip: Choose a magical tradition. The player chooses a cantrip to cast as an innate spell of the appropriate tradition. If the player has the Refocus activity, they gain an additional use of the innate spell when they refocus.
Ranged Unarmed Strike: Gain a ranged unarmed strike.
Strike Upgrade: Choose between: Unarmed strike damage is increased 1 die or weapon strikes gain 1 pt of a chosen damage type.
Weapon skill: Choose an uncommon martial or simple weapon. The player is considered trained in that weapon.

5th level ancestry feats
Choose 4
Activity training: (character able to perform the chosen activity) Choose an activity that requires a check. Gain +2 to that check.
Critical training: (weapon skill, unarmed strike upgrade, or ranged unarmed strike) Gains the critical specialization of chosen weapon.
Fleet: Choose a speed. Gain 5' to that speed, up to 35'.
Innate spell: (cantrip) Choose a 1st level spell of the same tradition of the cantrip. Gain it as an innate spell.
Skill Training: Choose a skill, a trained skill task, and a skill feat. The character becomes trained in the skill (or Expert if already trained), gains the skill feat as a bonus, and has +2 to the task.
Speed: (Climbing, Flying, or Swimming movement bonus) Gain a 15' speed of the appropriate type. If flying, flying is clumsy.

9th level ancestry feats
Choose 2
Desperation: Once per hour as a reaction, the character gains temporary HP equal to ancestral HP+con modifier.
Greater Spell (cantrip or innate spell) Choose a second or third level spell of the appropriate tradition to gain as an innate spell.
Heart of the Wild: (environmental resistance) Energy resistance increases to the character's level.
Practiced Task: (skilled, action training, activity training, or skill training) Bonus to Skill task, action, or activity increases to +4. If the character rolls a success, treat as critical success.

13th level ancestry feats
Choose 1
Extra Spell: (cantrip, innate spell, greater spell) Gain an additional use of the innate spell. If cantrip, it becomes an innate cantrip.
Shared Resistance: (spell save bonus) When the character activates their spell save bonus, their party members also receive the +2 bonus. When the character rolls a success against a spell of the chosen trait, treat as critical success.
Weapon Mastery: (weapon skill) When the character gains expert level weapon training from their class, they also gain expert training with the chosen weapon.

Blatantly ripping off Nick's thread, but Im curious what people think on this one.

I'll admit, my investigators were all daring sleuths, so I have little expierience in intergrating alchemy into the class. So I wonder how others think alchemy will become a part of a class that isn't the alchemist. Will it get a similar alchemy pool, but no access to certain alchemical items?

How will inspiration fit in? Having an alchemy pool on top of an inspiration pool strikes me as too many pools for PF2, so what might happen here? Combine them? Turn one or the other into focus? I'm guessing inspiration will be a status bonus if it remains distinct from alchemy, but i can see it becoming an item bonus if they combine them.

I enjoyed my daring sleuths, so I hope inspiration applies to a wide variety of skills. All of them, really.

Cross posting this here, for easier searching.

My system mastery is still shaky at best, so feel free to point out my errors.

Warfored

Hit points: 8
Size: Medium
Speed: 25 feet
Ability Boost: Constitution, Intelligence, 1 free
Ability Flaw: Charisma
Languages: Common. Additional languages equal to your intelligence modifier (if it's positive). Choose from the list of common languages and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits: Warforged*, Humanoid
Composite body: A Warforged can apply an armor rune directly to its own skin. You can invest in your skin, or a suit of armor you are wearing, but not both at once.

Heritages
Armored: Most Warforged that were intended to be soldiers were created with some basic protection. An armored warforged gains a +1 to AC, and can apply light armor runes to its composite body.
Scout: A scout Warforged is small and has increased sensory ability. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus when using the Seek action to find hidden or undetected creatures within 30 feet of you. When you target an opponent that is concealed from you or hidden from you, reduce the DC of the flat check to 3 for a concealed target or 9 for a hidden one.
Prototype: The earliest Warforged were somewhat more like constructs than humanoids when compared to more modern Warforged, and are not quite as vulnerable to the toils of the flesh. If you roll a success on a saving throw against a poison, disease, or fatigue effect, you get a critical success instead.
Body Double: You were made to look like a specific individual. When impersonating the specific creature you resemble, crit failures count as a failure. If you critically succeed, the person you have deceived does not get a new roll to penetrate your disguise for 1 day.

Ancestry Feats
Artificial Metabolism (1): When saving against a necromancy effect, treat your result as if it were one level higher (crit failure becomes a failure, failure a success, success a crit success).
Docent (1): gain an intelligent item that counts as a familiar.
Integrated Weapon (1): You have a simple or martial one-handed melee weapon that you have access to incorporated into your body's construction. You are trained in this weapon, and if it is a simple weapon, increase its damage die one step. You may choose to integrate a weapon into either or both arms, and are always considered to be carrying them, though you must use a Change Your Grip action to Wield them. If you are not actively wielding them, you are not considered to be carrying them for the purposes of Manipulating other objects. They do not count against your bulk.
Jaws of Death (1)
Second Slam (requires Integrated Weapon) (5): You gain the Double Slice Fighter class feat, but can only use it with your Intergrated Weapon.
Tireless (5): Immune to the fatigue condition.
Scion of House Cannith (9): You gain access to dragonmarks as if you were a Human member of House Cannith.
Construct Apotheosis (requires Artificial Metabolism and Tireless) (13): You become immune to necromancy spell effects, unless you cast them on yourself. You gain the construct trait and lose the humanoid trait (and must immediately retrain out of any feats that require the humanoid trait).
Humanoid Apotheosis (13): When targeted by a spell, you only count as a construct if doing so would benefit you, not the caster.
Natural Weapon (requires Integrated weapon) (13): Whenever you gain a class feature that grants you expert or greater proficiency in a given weapon or weapons, you also gain that proficiency with your integrated weapon.

***
Some of these, like Docent for example, are more notes than rules text. That one specifically I'll need the rules from the gamemastery guide before it'll be ready to be an actual feat. But I hope the gist comes across.
Also I was working off this post as inspiration. It lists other ancestral feats for later conversion.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42rk7&page=2?Conversion-Woes-This-is-Me-Ve nting#58

Edit: More notes:
Two additional things I can see necessary right off the bat are replicating the warforged slam attack, and adding a feat for additional armor. Probably more feats to integrate other materials into construction as well. At first, I figured any such feats should be 1st level only, like Elf Atavism, but then I remembered that transhumanism (transconstructionism I suppose) is a huge part of Warforged identity, so the ability to tinker with their own bodies, adding weapons and armor (or removing them) needs to be maintained. For that reason, body double might ultimately wind up a Feat instead of a heritage.

I don't want to review until more competent readers than me have a chance to weigh in, but my initial read is favorable. This is, perhaps unsurprisingly, a lot like the beginner box demo encounters, and achieves the same goal as those with equal aplomb. As a demo, this adventure is fine. I think the story suffers a bit due to the compressed nature of the scenario, but its not the end of the world.

So as to not clutter up other threads, I'd like to move discussions about Oracles in PF2 over here.

So, just like it says on the title. As one of the most popular classes from PF1, we're certainly going to have oracles in PF2 at some point. What do you all think they'll look like (mechanically, flavorully, etc.) Will they be a full class all by themselves, with all the subclasses and multiclass archetype support that implies? Or might they become a subclass to another class themselves, a sidecar attachment to either the cleric or sorcerer?

My own preference would be for them to become a full class. That's the only way I can see the page count and feats needed to get the mix and match of curse and mysteries onto paper, but I'll admit I'm at a bit of a loss on how that might look. Perhaps they'll combine some aspects of a a barbarian instinct for the curse, and champion's cause feats for the mystery?

I'd also be delighted if their version of the spellstrike feat bestowed all the drawbacks of your curse but none of the benefits onto an enemy.

Has anyone tried to convert Haunts from Pathfinder to Starfinder yet? I wouldn't try to use them quite as written, due to the relative lack of positive energy available in Starfinder, but I was thinking that haunt rules could be a close enough analogue to Star Trek's favorite random encounter: the holodeck malfunction.

I assume the process would go something like
1) take a SF spell
2) build a haunt using PF haunt rules
3) convert it as if it were a pf monster using the SF core rulebook guidelines
4) swap its vulnerability to positive energy with vulnerability to electricity, as well as spells that affect technological constructs

But would that result in an actual usuable encounter? Any advice or experience anyone else has had in using haunts in SF would be appreciated.

Since the "Types/Subtyoes" section of the beastiary was not included with the Alien Archive, and would have been pretty redundant with the rules for building new monsters, where can we find the Starfinder definitions of the following subtypes: Chaotic, Lawful, Evil, Magical, Extraplanar, Native, Good, Technological? None of these seem to affect much beyond certain spell effects, and are straightforward enough that I know what they're all intended to be, but I'm wondering if I simply missed the official definition somewhere.

Credit where credit is due, this archetype was inspired by this post.

Retired: Extremely Dangerous
Sometimes, people turn away from their former lives. Maybe age catches up to them, or they have something to lose now (be that a family or new social station), or they simply tire of their former life as an adventurer. For whatever reason, they've set aside their old ways, and found contentment in a simpler, less dangerous life.
Mostly, anyways. But if duty calls once again, enemies might find that the Retired is not quite as harmless or as out of training as they might prefer.

Local Character: Unlike most vigilantes, a RED vigilante does not have a separate identity they can escape into. Many, perhaps most, of the people they encounter in their daily lives are aware of what a RED vigilante has done and perhaps could do again, should she choose. However, they don't believe the RED vigilante will make that choice.
Instead of a social identity and a vigilante identity, with separate alignments and some protection from divination, a RED vigilante has a vigilante and social reputation. That is, people know that "Warden of the Wood" used to be murder on the local foresters and woodsmen, but few that know her really believe Oreena Hollyoak has it in her to commit such crimes, even those fully aware that they are one and the same person. A RED vigilante gains +10 competence bonus to bluff checks to appear as non-threatening. This bonus does not apply while in combat, but does stack with the Feign Innocence social talent.
This lack of a true dual identity affects several social talents. Renown and the various talents that use Renown no longer require a separate identity, but you only gain the diplomacy and other social identity benefits of that renown from those that have not seen you use an offensive ability or make an attack. The number of people that would treat your social identity favorably and your vigilante identity with caution remains unchanged.
The Immediate Change, Quick Change, and Subjective Truth social talents now require the Many Guises social talent, and refers to assuming and maintaining a mundane identity rather than a social identity.
This replaces the Dual Identity ability, and alters the Social Talent ability.
Out of the Game: A RED vigilante has left their former life behind them, and have accepted in many ways a much simpler lifestyle. The reason they did so varies from RED to RED, but for all of them there are consequences to their time spent inactive. A RED Vigilante gains the penalties and bonuses of an Oracle curse, chosen at 1st level. A RED vigilante's levels in the vigilante class count as effective Oracle levels for the purposes of determining the effects of their curse. Once chosen, the curse cannot be changed, nor can it be removed or dispelled without aid of a deity. Also, if the RED vigilante does not have a Vigilante archetype that grants spellcasting abilities, curses that grant spells known do not grant that ability.
If a RED vigilante gains levels in another class that has an Oracle's curse, that curse (or one of the curses, such as in the case of a Dual-curses Oracle) must be the same for the RED vigilante class and the other Oracle curse granting class.
This ability replaces Seamless Guise.

A RED vigilante may select from the following social talents in addition to their normal pool:
Not Dead Yet: A RED vigilante often does not see herself or really feel over the hill, but is willing to take advantage of other people seeing her that way. This talent lessens the penalties to physical ability scores due to age by 1 per age category, to 0/-1/-2. The penalties still stack as normal, and bonuses are unaffected. An old RED vigilante with this talent also receives a +2 competence bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy, which increases to +4 when they reach venerable. This bonus does not stack with the bonus from Local Character or Feign Innocence, but can be used more generally.
Our Bastard: A RED vigilante with this talent becomes so convincing at appearing harmless that even those that have directly seen her commit violent acts don't believe that she would target them. A RED vigilante can attempt a diplomacy check against someone that would be part of a her social Renown but has seen her use an offensive ability or make an attack, as long as at least one week has past since the target has seen the offending action. If she succeeds well enough at that check to bring the target to at least Friendly, they become part of the RED vigilante's social renown once again.
Essentially, a RED vigilante is rebuilding renown with that one particular person, although without needing to spend time with that person during that week. As such, having either Instant Recognition or Triumphant Return social talents reduce the time needed between action and diplomacy check to 4 hours and 3 days, respectively.
A RED vigilante must have the Renown social talent to select this talent.