I’ll only speak for the ones I know a fair amount about
Sorcs: pretty close to perfect to be honest, I would maybe suggest some of the blood magic effects need tweaking, since some are just generally whilst others are so bad you may as well forget they exist.
Oracle: Divine access should come with their curse/mystery at level 1 I feel. Also some of the curses are so much harsher than others. Like bones for example. They need to either tone them down or up the benefits.
Investigator: When I built an investigator I felt like I was constantly asking myself, “and then what?” Like it felt as though the class had a fairly narrow use case, and all the tools it needed to do that one thing very early on. Then never really got anything else after that, like every combat was gonna be extremely similar from level 1-20 regardless of what you’re facing.
It strikes me that if putting heroism on your striker and synthesia on an enemy is enough to demoslih everything a team is facing, perhaps they’re not facing many encounters with multiple enemies.
The more enemies you introduce the less valuable buffs like heroism and debuffs like synth become.
Giving rise to AOEs and battlefield control becoming more useful
The Shifter is, in my view, prime real estate to be implemented as a Druid Class Archetype that trades out all of their non-Focus Spell Spellcasting for additional Aspect and Wildshape functionality.
Heck, the PF1 Class Description even just literally says it outright, it's a "druidic discipline."
It could force the Wild Order, trade out Spellcasting for Martial Proficiencies, and grant Focus Cantrips to allow for at least minor all-day/at-will Wild Shape functionality and they could be done with it. There is just simply not enough meat on the Shifter concept to make it an entirely new Class without copying/pasting half of the Druid in the first place.
Big old disagree with that one
For one thing, a lot of people very vocally didn’t like that.
And the shifter concept has all the werewolf/were whatever themes tied into it where you partially shift, it has the idea of only changing an arm. Or your legs or whatever, a different kind of partial shifting. And shifting into anything other than an animal or plant. Like an ooze or dragon or demon or angel.
The problem with the 1e shifter was the features the forms granted had very underwhelming powers and there was basically no point staying with the class post level 5 (I made 3 of the suckers, I'm fairly familiar)
The concept of "turns into a monster/animal and fights as it" was never the issue.
I feel like shifter archetypes were going in the right direction though.
Shifter traditions being "changes in animals vs changes into an ooze vs changes into other planar beings vs changes into dragons" would be a great place to start.
It just needs those shifts to be actually impactful. Developing the strengths those forms impart should in my opinion lean big into the feats element.
Ancestor magic/general ghost magic/land spirit magic/ animal spirit magic and I imagine those differences could be how you break up their traditions.
I’m not sure if I’d want them to be a full caster, or maybe closer to something the Thaum, where they have access to skme form if magic but not full caster.
In terms of sensitivity, honouring ancestors, having a connection to landscape, or having a connection to the dead on general, is a mythology that occurs in all sorts of human civilisations all over the world, it’s not culturally specific.
So I don’t think using those ideas in fantasy is particularly abhorrent, especially if you ground them in people/places from your own setting, which are obviously distinct from real human earth dwelling ones.
Maybe drop the word Shaman for something less culturally specific. Spirit speaker or medium (is that just as culturally specific) or Seancer (not a word?) ♂️
So as some of you will know, I've been steadily learning pf2 by making characters, but so far all I've made is spell casters.
I started with a barbarian doing animal path cause I like the stag aesthetic, but I sort of ran out of steam with it. Then I was reading an investigator guide and it struck me it seemed to be about delivering one big attack around, which sort of appeals to me (I always wanted vital strike to be better in pf1)
One big strike lead me towards sniper rifles, and then I thought, why not try doing a Investigator hybrid into a gunslinger, it'd certainly teach me new stuff about the system between archetyping and weapons and leaning more martial and also guns. Given I'm understand they have slightly janky rules.
So without further a doodle, here is Myron West, the uptight Elvish investigator.
Investigator Feats:
1: Known Weaknesses
2: Gunslinger Dedication
4: Lie Detector
6: Slinger’s Readiness (One shot, One Kill)
8: Basic Shooting (Defensive Armaments)
10: Practiced Reloads
12: Firearm Expert
14: Foresee Danger
16: Reconstruct The scene
18: Trickster Ace
20: All the time in the world
Its pretty straightforward I think, just have a tone of skill based tricks for knowledge that I'll completely forget I can do. Do some stealthing, do some scouting, do some sniping, do some knowledge checks all that.
Range seems better for investigators anyway, since you've got to do the whole Devise Strat and doing knowledge checks and stuff, doing one bit hit saves moving around if you're ranged.
I mean it seems like a rule set worth investing in though doesn’t it?
It’s not like only wizards could use it, it could be wizards main thing, and dedicating unto wizard might let another caster create one spell.
Like a wizard could get 2 spells (one at max level one at half rounded up or lower if they choose) when they get expert, again at master and again at legendary, so by max level wizards get 6 spells they made up.
So they could end up with 1x 2nd level, 2x 4th level, 1x 5th level, 1x 8th level and 1x 9th level.
Let people live their bigby’s hand fantasy. Or whatever.
And then maybe a feat route for classes like the sorc or witch to build 1 or 2 of their own.
It could also be a dedicated arcane thing, to give the people who think arcane has been laid low, something to smile about.
I used to think the Swashbuckler should just be a Fighter. Once Swashbuckler came out on its own, I gave up, and now if a flavor concept seems like it should be built into Fighter somehow my default stance is that it should either be another class or and archetype because *gestures broadly at everything so far*.
Love it or hate it, Fighter is a highly effective, simple, beginner-friendly, flavor-neutral package. At this point, it's better to just embrace it as it is.
Edit: Also, Chromantic Durgon <3 said Martian instead of Martial and I think that's just the best.
I can't imagine looking at the Psychic and Thaumaturge as the most recent PF2 classes, with the Kineticist coming soon, and thinking "they're really sticking to safe, boring class design."
Not being safe or boring doesn’t immediately equate to odd
I'll bite - what does it mean, then?
The Thaumaturge is stapling arbitrary Weaknesses to enemies and substituting Charisma for a bunch of Lore stuff, while the 9 Implements offer some of the most modular class design in the game as it stands.
That’s an elaborate way of saying spends an action to gain a damage bonus and some other small but helpful bonuses to checks.
The oddest thing about the class to me is the implements it has to wonder round with drawing power from, but due to the clunky rules around empty hands you’re sort of pigeon holed into working a certain way.
Quote:
The Psychic has things like a subclass that ping-pongs between Cold and Fire, and has a completely novel design space around Amping cantrips. The Kineticist isn't shaped like any other class in the game.
What would be odd, if not those?
Caster that Amps cantrips is different but I wouldn’t say it was odd at all, seems like a reasonably logical place to go design wise.
To me oddness isn’t about having a slightly jaunty mechanic/action economy
It’s about the flavour being slightly left of field and the mechanics enabling that. The implements sort of go in that direction but then the mechanics don't co-operate.
It’s like a sanitised toned down version of the occultist from pf1, going round with tons of weird magical items all with their own weird powers attached. Like a novelty magical Christmas tree.
Having a magical talking sword (or whatever) as a class feature or communing with ghosts and spirits of the wild to fight for you or whatever else.
Not just, has a magic item, they have to have in their hand. That they use an action to gain a bonus from.
I can't imagine looking at the Psychic and Thaumaturge as the most recent PF2 classes, with the Kineticist coming soon, and thinking "they're really sticking to safe, boring class design."
Not being safe or boring doesn’t immediately equate to odd
I don't feel much in the way of emotion in these discussions. So when I ask the above, I want to know what the other person's experience level is playing the game. It was a genuine question that was answered in an adequate manner.
If it was a genuine question why did you start by already assuming you know the answer?
“How much game experience have you got to inform this opinion” is a genuine question.
“You don’t play this game much do you?” Is a patronising assumption.
I think you’ve made your statement too broad and opened yourself up to easy rebuttal.
There is a trend in post CRB classes towards muddied up action economy to achieve comparable or weaker results next to core classes.
Obvious examples include the thaumaturge, magus and summoner.
Having actions needed to get your ball rolling isn’t a new idea, bards and barbs for example have those “taxes” they’re not really a problem.
The problem with the post CRB classes that are hampered by this is they’re overly complex (summoner) or overly fiddly for relatively little gain in exchange for not really matching simpler classes.
With a couple exceptions it feels like we're arguing in circles.
There is a camp that believes Mesmerist has a place, be it as a hypnotist, or an illusionist/duelist or both.
And a camp that believes its irrevocably tied to overtly nasty mind control elements. To them it seems no class can exist in this design space without crossing uncrossable lines.
To the latter any suggestion seems doomed to be interpreted in the most seedy way possible, "they could implant tricks to aid their allies in combat" becomes "they will invade the minds of their allies without permission and control them."
To the former, there is a wealth of obvious avenues to take the class, be it a dedication or archetype or class of its own, as bounded/wave caster.
Correct me if I'm wrong in my reading of the situation, but as it stands, I doubt we're going to reach an accord, as 131 posts in we seem to have gotten further way from an accord if anything.
I'll say this though, whether you think the class has a place or not, mind control, deception, and coercion are already well and truly embedded in the game, used by PCs everyday and have been since the core rule book. So the idea that Paizo doesn't want these elements to be used by a PC seems pretty far fetched to me. Yes some of them come with a sensitivity warning, but they're still a core part of the game.
Illusionist is probably one of the best supported Wizards there is though. It works really well.
If we are talking about someone who is not actually casting illusions but doing slight of hand, then it really seems like scoundrel rogue is there and is a really good base, right?
We are not going to get a better martial damage booster than flat-footed with sneak attack.
The difference is a wizard illusionist is a character that relies on illusions and falls back on other magics when the illusions aren’t working.
A mesmerist illusionist would fall back on being a partial martial and implanted tricks.
Most likely as a bounded caster.
The sleight of hand would be in addition to illusions and magic, not instead of it.
This mesmerist was a hybrid, I think that’s the thing perhaps not clicking with people and perhaps not clicking with PF2 design space in general.
It doesn’t seem like it’s that good at facilitating hybrids. Which is the design space the mesmerist would have to live in.
Its martial ness would be buffed by being generally weaker than your average full martial, but against the focus of their gaze, they’d compete.
Its casting would be hamstrung by the bounded ness but it would have special features that made it better at a particular sub type, what that sub type was would maybe have a lot to do with their order or discipline or whatever it ends up being called.
And then their final feature, after bounded casting and the gaze would have to be the implanted tricks. The hypnotic elements.
These I think would be the most interesting part of the mesmerist design space. Buffing with implanted hypnosis could be like mini contingency spells for your party. And little moments of tweaked perceptions of reality for your enemy, like them suddenly seeing two of you in two different parts of the board. Or perhaps believing a miss was actually a fatal blow against them and reacting according etc.
It is more than just flavor though. Paizo doesn't make new classes just to fit in mechanical options, they build classes to fill a narrative space in the world of Golarion. Class narrative is where the purpose of this class is explained to players and justified in the world. The PF1 class narrative is not one that I think needs to exist in PF2. What narrative is this class going to fill and where does it fit in the game world? Why the class exists needs to be the starting point of fitting the class in the game.
Paizo has already demonstrated they’re more than happy to include those mechanical elements in the game with update flavour.
The mesmerist was a trickster, an illusionist, a hypnotist, a duelist, a liar and an enchanter.
You seem to think the one paragraph of flavour with 3 problematic clauses is the core uncompromising essence of the class.
I disagree, I think it’s entirely possible to maintain the “a trickster, an illusionist, a hypnotist, a duelist, a liar and an enchanter.” And change or update those problematic clauses.
Drop “usually for their own personal gain” change “frequently form cults of personality” to ”have been known to form cults of personality” and add another paragraph about, diffusing battles before they break out, helping lead revolutions and overthrow dictators, and relieving people threw therapeutic hypnosis and boom, done.
As for the that paizo shouldn’t or doesn’t want to introduce those mechanics into the game, they already have, multiple times in multiple ways from the core rules onwards.
I will say that arguing with people whether mind control thinga should make people uncomfortable seems... wrong. The key fact is even if it does not personally make you feel uncomfortable it is a touchy subject for enough people that it should be given the proper care (I mean, there's a reason "Reprehensible use of mind-control magic" is one of the five things listed as "things PCs should never do" in the Pathfinder baseline).
You don't debate whether something that makes people incredibly uncomfortable *should*, you just accept that it does and act accordingly. This shouldn't be a debate on whether the elements in the PF1 overly-edgy description that people have issues with are alright to base a class around and instead should be on whether you can avoid those things and still make the class work (honestly, with lots of the ideas in this thread I reckon there is room, all be it I feel a different name would be better with mesmerist perhaps as just a subclass, but that's a separate matter.)
But the debate isn’t “should every body be okay with mind control at the table”
The debate is, should it be blanket never used as a class mechanic everywhere because it makes some people uncomfortable.
To me clearly the answer is no, because as I and others have already pointed out, mind control and class features based on coercion already exists and are popular in the game.
Certain tables don’t like it, they don’t have to use it, no-ones saying they do. People just disagree with the sentiment that a class shouldn’t exist because certain tables don’t one certain aspect of it.
And I don’t really appreciate the suggestion that anyone who disagrees the mesmerist should not be blanket written off is some how trying to ride ruff shod over anyone else’s feelings regarding a sensitive issue.
That’s not what people are doing and it’s pretty inflammatory to suggest otherwise.
I have to say I’ve always found the line in the sand people draw over charm spells quite odd.
People build characters that are designed to suck the life force out of people
Characters that raise peoples friends corpses and have said corpses kill said friends
Characters designed to burn the skin off someone’s bones
Or assassinated someone before they ever see you coming
Or literally scare someone to death
But for some reason coercing someone into letting you into a locked cabinet, or a prison or to fight their boss for you is the line.
I fail to see why that character is any more inherently evil than the others I mentioned.
I know some people draw a direct line between “character with enchanting” to “will use this character to coerce sex out of NPCs” but that seems like a massive failure to trust your players, unless you know that’s exactly what they’re planning to do.
To me, the best thing about 5e is accessibility, the rules are simple, yes there are holes in them, which tends to lead to house ruling or GMing on the fly. But to me that isn’t a weakness.
I very much doubt there was a group in the world running pf1 rule perfect, every table has house rules and makes mistakes. I suspect the same is true in pf2 although I’m not experienced and can’t say for sure.
The difference is 5e’s looseness made it feel easier to do that, especially from a GM point of view. And the low difficulty ceiling made it much more accessible for players who aren’t incline to go on forums and ask how to best build their concept.
Pf2 is absolutely more balanced but I’m not sure how much of a selling point that is. You don’t have to worry about the fighter chopping down the enemy in one round, or he wizard tangling everything up in a cloud of something, but I suspect for a lot of people that was part of the fun.
For the barbarian with the hurt feelings who felt underwhelming next to his learned wizardly associate it’s great, but I always felt the scope of that problem got over blown on these forums.
The type of people that come here are details oriented with a higher than average investment in mechanics and those kinds of issues, most of the people I played with were quite happy with their martials cause “yeah the wizard banished one enemy just like that, but did you see how much damage I just did? He couldn’t do that” was a much more common attitude.
For someone who wants to play a fighter the power fantasy is blending a monster to bits and they could absolutely do that.
I’ve played 5e and pf1 and I’d be very happy to play pf2. All the systems have pros and cons, but to me more often than not how much you enjoy the game is at least 75% to do with the people at the table with you.
If those people are casual about the game and don’t wanna have to do so much research I’d suggest 5e
If they’re interested in a fairly gritty system and real challenging encounters I’d suggest pf2
If they’re super details oriented and/or excited about the power fantasy I’d suggest pf1
I don’t have anyone to actively play with at the moment but back when I did it was probably between 0-3 a day usually.
But we were a fairly high RP group, we weren’t just doing encounter after encounter in a session, that felt a bit boring to us.
If you’re doing 7 encounters with enough space between to medicine up all your Martians but never enough time to full rest I feel like yeah obviously the caster is going to feel shit lol. You’ve reduced them to their 1 focus spell and maybe 2 or 3 combat cantrips they know for most of the day?
But I feel like that’s more to do with running the game in a way that sets casters up to fail.
If the idea of pf2 is most combats run 4-6 rounds, and casters around level 7-12 have around 11-18 spell slots, the game doesn’t really work at 7 encounters a day, that’s like 28-42 rounds.
It wasn’t me but a girl I was playing with got kicked out.
She was playing a gnome kineticist, the refused to learn how attack rolls worked, which was start of the problems.
She knew the GM outside the game and seemed to have a sort of bickering flirty relationship with them, which she tried to carry into the game, but constantly bickering with a GM isn’t really as cute as she thought it was and tended to slow things down.
Then a couple of the later sessions when she’d chilled out of the constant bickering she started to nap at the table lmao
Its me again! I took a little break from my character building to home brew a whole class. I like to take things slow lmao.
Anyway, I picked it back up and made a druid which I think will be my last one for a little while cause none of the other classes are really inspiring me atm.
With this one I wanted to go in the direction of a controller/blaster hybrid, which is sort of how I envision the "god wizard" play style, translating to pf2. Since it seems like not specialising in it, per say, but still being able to do AoE damage is stronger in this system than it was in Pf1, where it was really only worth doing if you went all in on it.
1: Assurance (survival) B)
2: Bon Mot
4: Acrobatic Performer
6: No Cause for Alarm
8: Glad Hand
10: Consult the spirits
12: Aerobatics Mastery
14: Kip Up
16: Consult the spirits
18: Assured Identification
20: Legendary Negotiations
other feats:
With these choices I was mostly just trying to give myself useful options, I went leaf into stone for healing and some fun blasts. I know storm is probably better than stone but stone still seemed extremely good to me and I preferred it for flavour reasons.
General Feats:
1) Shield Block
3) Incredible Initiative
7) Canny Acumen (Fortitude)
11) Toughness
15) Untrained Improvisation
19) A home in every port
I know you can switch em out each day, but lets be real, most of the time we have our go too spells. So I went through the list and picked ones that looked mostly useful, and fitting to the character. You'll notice an absence of fire spells, thats not by accident.
Focus Spells: Good Berry, Stone spear, Impaling Briars
Spells: (+ Illusory Disguise, Illusory Object, Illusory Scene, Veil)
Cantrips: Scatter Scree, Ray of frost, Dancing Light, Detect Magic, Guidance
1) Charm, Pummelling rubble, Heal (probably at every level), Fear
2) Acid Arrow, Dispel Magic, Entangle, Heat Metal, Obscuring Mist
3) Aqueous Orb, Blindness, Crashing Wave, Haste, Lightning Bolt, Slow, Stinking Cloud, Wall of thorns
4) Air Walk, Coral Eruption, Freedom of movement, Murderous vine, Petal Storm, Stone skin (probably keep upcasting this one)
5) Cone of cold, Healing well, Impaling spikes, Lightning storm, Wall of stone
6) Baleful Polymorph, Chain Lightning, Tangling Creepers
7) Eclipse Burst, Mask of terror, regenerate
8) Earthquake, Polar Ray, Punishing winds, Whirlwind
9) Storm of Vengeance (honestly felt a bit underwhelmed)
10) Indestructibility, Nature Incarnate, Revival
[spoiler=familiar stuff]
After level 4 I'll be picking 4 powers a day, I figured probably from this selection below. Honestly the whole familiar rule set seemed fairly underwhelming to me, its a nice ribbon though.
Familiar (mini me)
Go to familiar Abilities:
Speech
Spellcasting
Familiar Focus
Share Senses
Tremor Sense
Spell battery
The relevance is I suggested baring in mind some DMs don’t like the new ancestry ability score rules when creating your character.
Since OP doesn’t actually know their DM yet it seems prudent to me to at least keep options open for if they want to stick with old ancestry ability scores.
Like the Druid or cleric or if they’re set on oracle, avoiding relying on DCs and spell attack roll reliant play styles.
Arcane is not the better blaster. That is entirely on Primal who has not only the better blasting spells, but also the better focus spells. Not to mention more exclusive blasting spells.
The only good thing about arcane in regards to blasting is that people can poach it for electric arc.
Focus spells are to do with the class not the casting tradition.
What you’re saying is druids and the elemental bloodline sorcerer have good focus spells. Which is not what I’m discussing.
Where is a wild witches amazing blasting centric focus spells? Cause I’m drawing a blank.
Arcane has a huge reservoir of blasting spells to draw from at every level, it has the best blasting cantrip, and it has access to some damage spells that primal doesn’t.
Maybe primal is the over all better blasting tradition”, but “because druids have good focus spells” really is missing the point as far as I’m conscerned.
Do you always assume the only reason anyone who ever disagrees with you’s only reason is “just because”
Of course not.
But you also haven't actually listed one for these GMs in question either.
And I am not able to think up any on my own - the concept of forbidding a valid character creation choice for a different person's character just seems a bit odd to me.
So I currently don't have any other reasoning.
It is just 'meh, some GMs don't like the rule so they won't let you play a Dwarf as a high CHA class'. Because reasons.
You never asked, you just assumed they couldn't possibly have one and ploughed on.
The reality is for a lot of people those racial traits are very closely tied to D&D type fantasy worlds.
Elves are dextrous but frail, dwarves are group and hardy, Orcs are strong, halfings have an easy charisma about them.
If a dwarf lives inside a mine his entire life, and an elf skips among the trees, how is it that both naturally just as dextrous as eachother?
How is every Gnome just as strong as every orc.
Of course there were always out-liars, a gnome stronger than the average orc, after all, a gnome could have started with 14 strength, to an orcs 12, thats entirely possible and makes sense to a certain extent.
But now you're telling me that the strongest possible Orc is exactly as strong as the strongest possible gnome, is exactly as strong as the strongest possible elf is exactly as strong as the strongest possible dwarf... suddenly things are stretching.
Its disrupting, not only an established (and reasonably popular fantasy) it also challenges verisimilitude.
Maybe I can get behind the idea that a dwarf is no more genetically predisposed to be wise, or grump than a halfling. But it is somewhat challenging to imagine a Orc is no more genetically predisposed to being strong than a gnome.
Personally I don't care, people can build their characters how they like as long as its within the rules. Heck if it makes sense I'm quite happy to bend the rules, in pf1, one of my favourite characters concepts was a Naiad watersinger only it was only available to undine, I had waved that cause it made sense to in my opinion.
But to pretend there is no possible valid reason why someone might object to the idea of completely homogenising every race in the book beyond recognition. And to say any objection to you doing exactly what you want with your character means a power tripping GM seems slightly over the top to me.
Its always been within a GMs preview to not use every single bit of published material if they didn't want to.
But that's the thing. If a GM can't give any better reason for it than "Well I just don't like it, and I don't care that it makes your character concept not work" then my response is probably going to be to find a different GM.
As if they’re abundant, growing on trees, all over the world DMs just begging for a group of 3-5 friends to play pathfinder in their campaigns lol.
Do you always assume the only reason anyone who ever disagrees with you’s only reason is “just because”
“I’m not allowing that rule at my tables” that’s the end of the battle. There’s no higher power to appeal to, either you play with the Gm or you don’t.
Dating Profile: Detail-oriented, good with his hands, able to nerd out about smithing techniques, herbalism recipes and the natural beauty of minerals for hours, perpetually tired because the nightmares make sleep inconsistent, and has strong moral reservations about needless death and destruction, since he sees enough of it in his nightmares that he doesn't want to bring more into the waking world. I don't know how dating profiles actually look.
Cousins: Admittedly haven't thought beyond his immediate family, but he DOES have two younger brothers.
Favorite Holiday: Crystalhue, even though it's technically Shelynite, he deeply appreciates the exchange of handmade gifts.
Favorite Drink: White wine, especially chilled.
This dating profile screams Druid to me a lot. I think the clash is with smelting thing, cause druids and metal and all that.
So what about introducing a wrinkle, his parents tried to introduce him to smelting to show him fire isn’t to be feared, but it didn’t take, maybe it scared him, maybe it felt violent.
He dives into his elvish heritage looking for answers and finds Yuelral, but it’s not in the making of jewels that he finds comfort.
It’s jewels in their raw unhewn form than speak to him.
He never does get over his fear of fire, but he gains an appreciation for nature and rocks. Cut to, rock Druid.
You probably could do a sword, but you could do Shillelaghs and later stone spear.
Also as others have said, a cleric of one god being sent visions by another adversarial one is a totally valid concept.
Oracle also works, but minuses to Cha would make that real clunky. You couldn’t rely on anything with a DC or spell attack roll.
Edit: you could even take wave as a second order, as a direct challenge to flames you see in your visions.
You can also start with a concept and work backwards.
An example would be a a 5e character i made recently. I decided I wanted to make a Mary poppins reference, so I started with the idea they’d be named for P.L.Traverse who wrote Mary poppins. And I’d also been looking for a reason to make a cleric that worshipped the twilight domain. So I had that I mind.
I thought I’d like her to lead with a first name, so I decided in Pamela L.T.
I asked, what does L.T stand for, Little Traveler came to mind, so why would she be called that? She mustn’t have a surname, so perhaps she’s an orphan. Perhaps she used to run away a lot, hence little traveler.
Why would she run away? She wasn’t like the other kids, why not? Different race maybe? So what race could have a nice orphanage, that gives kids affectionate names like little traveler. Well I went to the twilight domain now, see if any races had gods that fit, and they did, the master of the halfling pantheon in a goddess of motherhood.
So it’s a halfling orphanage but she isn’t a halfling. Let’s make her a half elf, just different enough and works with the mystery parentage.
So I know her childhood, but what is she now? Well she’s the mistress of the orphanage of course, and a cleric to Yondalla.
But that begs the question, why would she leave her orphanage, we need an inciting incident. Yondalla also have protection of territory within her domain.
So Pamela protected something, the halfling village she lived in. From what, goblins, why not? But something happened, two of the older boys died helping her defend the village. So why would that make her leave?
To bring the, back perhaps? Perhaps she’s heard legends of clerics powerful enough to raise the dead, so she leaves to become powerful enough to do the same.
And there I have it, Pamela L.T, a twilight domain cleric of Yondalla, who used to ran an orphanage, defended her village from a band of roaming goblins, but has left with the hope of becoming powerful enough to cast true resurrection.
All from wanting a twilight domain cleric with the initials P.L.T
Here's something I wished they "addressed": why +3 maximum, and not +5? How hard would it have been to balance a +5 bonus, in addition of making Striking "the bonus times the die"?
+3 was the compromise between people who didn't want items to matter and people who wanted items to matter.
If you allow +5 what it does is equivalent to increasing level by 2, without actually giving more abilities. Making the game much easier for martials, and a bit easier for weapon using casters. If you don't give pure casters something extra they will however feel even worse than now (Bet people will say its fine because casters can just use abilities without rolls).
I never really understood the whole we want items to matter, therefore we’re making them an essential part of the maths for any martial character to keep up.
This is one the things I think Mathew mercer should get some credit for. 5e attaches maths accuracy to magic items just like 2e. But he was able to come up with rules for magic items that made them feel special and enhanced classes flavourfully rather than generically.
I think most people would be okay magic items having powerful abilities that ramped up, so long as they weren’t essentially to their fighter actually doing their job. As in reliably hitting what they’re swinging at.
Don’t make them rich and symbolic, make then people.
Imagine a boring person, in a boring village, with a boring family, with a couple of special things about them. Just like everyone has a couple special things about them.
Maybe they’ve got an identic memory and voracious appetite for books. They’d read every book in the village by the time they were 10.
Maybe they get on better with animals than people. Maybe they knew intuitively what plants needed what flourish and which ones needed to be kept out of the garden.
Then pick something that happened to them, a landmark moment in their life. Their village is attacked, or washed away in a storm, or a powerful wizard came through the village and marked them out for greatness. Or a green man visited them one day or a travelling circus came to town and they joined it and ran away.
Then work out what that person would be like, how that event would effect/change/scar them.
And that’s it. They don’t need to be a metaphor or a symbol.
For what it’s worth, I think most people’s wizard fantasy is in a powerful dude who casts a load of spells for every little thing, even when it’s extra and realistically you can just do that with your hands.
Less so the pack rat that rummages through his bag of a bajillion scrolls at the drop of a hat.
Anyway, I’ve home brewed a witch, it’s in the home brew section I’d be interested to see if y’all thought it got closer to the fantasy than the official material.
The idea was to make a class that is really all about sustaining hexes over the course of the day, re-usable powers that feel as much like giving people the cold shoulder or a scary look as they feel like magic to begin with.
Then getting more overtly powerful as you level up. Hopefully it feels balanced and fulfils the fantasy people had put in place for the witch.
Hexes, Major Hexes and grand hexes might seem OP but remember, the witch is only working with 2 spell slots at each level. They're paying for their power.
Skills:
Trained in Occult
Trained in a number of additional skills qual to 2 plus your intelligence modifier
Defences:
Untrained in all Armor
Trained in unarmoured defence
Spells:
Trained in Occult Spell Attacks
Trained in Arcane Spell DCs
Lv1 feature: Patron & Familiar & Spell casting – Familiar works the same as before. Spells and patron are addressed further down.
Lv3 Chant – Instead of the sustain a spell action a witch may take a chant action. The chant action allows the witch to sustain one spell with the sustain duration that you have in effect. In addition, a witch may sustain one hex with the sustain duration at the same time. The duration continues until the end of your next turn as normal. A which can only cast cantrips and hexes whilst chanting.
You may expend a focus point to allow you to sustain a spell until the end of the next turn without using the chant action. You may pick up the chant action again in the following turn.
Lv5 Hag’s resilience (Expert fortitude)
Lv7 Expert Spellcaster
Lv9: Mysterious frame (Expert Reflexes)
Lv10: Cackle – The witches chant action may now be used to sustain a spell at the same time as they sustain a hex or major hex. You may also sustain a hex and a major hex at the same time in place of a sustained spell. You may not sustain two major hexes. You can expend a focus point to extend this as with the chant action.
Lv11: Wise old eyes (Master perception)
Lv11: Weapon Expertise
Lv13: Defensive Robes & Weapon Specialization
Lv15: Master Spellcaster
Lv17: Stubborn Mind (Master Will)
Lv19: Supreme Witch, Grand hex & Legendary Spellcasting
Spell slots/Spell prep: Witches learn and prepare spells exactly as they do in the current rules, however they only get 4 cantrips and they only have 2 spell slots per spell level, not three. They never get 10th level spells.
Patrons:
You patron will grant you one hex of your choice at level 1 from the list of hexes available to that patron. At level 8 you will gain one of the Major hexes available to your patron, of your choice. At level 19 you will gain your grand hex and the associated supreme status.
When you gain a new spell level you will also gain a patron spell, your familiar automatically knows these patron spells. You may also cast these patron spells once per day without expending a spell slot, but only at their original level.
Your patron also grants a boon, an extra feature or skill granted to you at first level.
Spoiler:
Maiden: You patron connects you to the beauty and enchanting power of youth, destiny lays at your feet, your path is yet to be written and you have more control over it than most.
Patron Spells:
1) Charm
2) Lucky Number
3) threefold aspect
4) Veil
5) Tongues
6) Mislead
7) True Target
8) Uncontrollable Dance
9) Foresight
Boon: Trained in Society
Mother: Your patron connects you to the life-giving power of the mother. You nurture, heal, comfort, and protect. Your power is a warm hug and a hard shield against the world.
Patron Spells:
1) Heal
2) Create Food
3) Threefold aspect
4) Soothing spring
5) Breath of life
6) Raise Dead
7) Regenerate
8) Moment of renewal
9) Overwhelming presence
Boon: Trained in medicine
Hex: Fortune/Warming Embrace/Earthen Clutch/Shielding Shroud
Major Hex: Earthen ally/Boundless Hope
Supreme Status: Life bringer
Grand Hex: Eruption of life
Crone: Your patron connects you to the wisdom of the crone. You’re familiar with the facts of life and with them death. You know what it is to endure time and you’re ready to use it as a weapon.
Patron Spells:
1) Fear
2) Silence
3) Threefold Aspect
4) Seal Fate
5) Death Ward
6) Necrotize
7) Finger of Death
8) Canticle of Everlasting Grief
9) Wail of the Banshee
Boon: Master in Perception, when you would increase to master, instead increase to legendary.
Hex: Evil Eye/Misfortune/Old Rot/Chilling Sweep
Major Hex: Royal Aspect/Withering Presence
Supreme Status: Friend of Death
Grand Hex: Quintessence stream.
Night: You patron connects you with the night. You don’t fear the darkness or the creatures that reside within it, you rule them. You wrap yourself up in the night and draw enemies into your clutches, protecting yourself and your allies.
Patron Spells:
1) Bane
2) Darkness
3) Chilling Darkness
4) Dimension Door
5) Moon frenzy
6) Blanket of stars
7) Eclipse burst
8) Polar Ray
9) Storm of Vengeance
Swamp: You control the very ground beneath your feet, your enemies, stumble, struggle and fall around you.
Patron Spells:
1) Mud Pit
2) Water Walk
3) Earthbind
4) Stoneskin
5) Transmute rock and mud
6) Flesh to stone
7) Corrosive body
8) Horrid Wilting
9) Shapechange
Boon: Trained in survival
Endless hair (LV1): You may use the Endless hair action, your hair gains a reach of upto 30ft and may be used to deliver touch spells.
Tangling hair (Prerequisite: Endless hair) (LV4): You may grant the trip or grapple property to your hair once its grown with the endless hair action. You use your spell casting proficiency modifier for the sake of performing this manoeuvre. You may take this more than once.
Hair Trap (Prerequisite: Endless hair & tangling hair granting trip) (LV8): Once you’ve used the grow your hair action your hair counts as threatening for the sake of attacks of opportunity with a reach of 30ft. A 30ft radius around you counts as difficult terrain, for creatures you view as hostile.
Crushing Hair (Prerequisite: Endless hair & tangling hair granting Grapple)(LV8): Once you’ve grappled an opponent with the tangling hair action you may use the crush action. Dealing 1D6 x half your character level + your intelligence modifier, bludgeoning damage.
Extra Hex > Patron Wanderer
Extra Hex (LV1): You learn another hex from your patrons list of potential hexes. You may take this feat twice.
Patron Wanderer (LV10): You may learn one major hex not usually permitted by you Patron. You also gain 1 extra focus point to be added to your focus pool (can’t exceed 3)
Coven Witch (LV6) (Prerequisite: Maiden, Mother or Crone Patron) – When you prepare your spells in the morning you may invite a number of allies upto your intelligence modifier to commune along with you. For doing so, the first time you would expend a focus point during the next day, a focus point is not expended. Your allies all gain access to the casting of one Cantrip you know, using your spell casting proficiency for the sake of DCs and attack rolls.
World Witch (LV6) (Prerequisite: Night or Swamp Patron) - When you prepare your spells in the morning you may take your time to commune not only with your familiar with the world at large. For doing so, the first time you would expend a focus point during the next day, a focus point is not expended. In addition, the first time you roll a natural 1 for a skill, save or spell attack roll, you may reroll, you must take the second result.
Scarred Familiar (LV10) – Your familiar gains a scar, that carries the weight of your hexes. You may treat your familiar as the target of a Hex, which the familiar may then reflect towards any target within 30ft of it.
Unsettling Whispers > Horrifying Cackle
Unsettling whisperes (Lv4): Creatures within 15ft of you gain a -1-circumstance bonus to hit you with attack roles if you performed the chant action on your last turn.
Horrifying Cackle (Prerequisite) (Lv12): After you perform the chant action creatures within 30ft of you must make a will save against your spell DC, on a critical failed save they’re frightened 2 until the end of your next turn. On a fail they’re frightened 1 until the end of your next turn. On a success nothing. On a critical success they’re immune to the effects of horrifying cackle until you refocus. You also gain an extra focus point (can’t exceed 3)
Master of hexes (LV18): You gain 1 extra focus point to your focus pool (can’t exceed
3) and regain 2 when you refocus.
Witch Queen (LV20): You may cast your grand hex one additional time per day.
Generic Caster feats witches can take under class feats:
Cantrip Expansion
Steady Spell Casting
Soulsight
Effortless Concentration
Counterspell
Conceal Spell
Enhanced Familiar
Reflect Spell
Hexes:
Hexes function like cantrips only unique to a witch and they may only be acquired through your patron and the extra hex feat. They all have a range of 30ft and may all be sustained for upto a minute.
Spoiler:
Hex list:
Evil Eye (2 actions) - Your fix your eye on the target, imposing a malevolent hex. The target becomes frightened based on the results of its Will save. This condition value can't be reduced below 1 while the hex is active and you can see the target.
Success The target is unaffected.
Failure The target is frightened 1.
Critical Failure The target is frightened 2.
Fortune (2 actions) – You reach into the fabric of reality and tweak things in your targets favour. The target of this hex gains a +2 circumstance bonus to attack rolls and AC.
You may sustain this hex.
Reaction: As a reaction when the target of this hex would fail a save or be hit with an attack you may change the result of the roll to be one more effective. A failed save becomes a successful save, a critical hit against the target becomes a hit. You may not make things critically fail or critically succeed with this reaction.
Misfortune (2 Actions)– You reach into the fabric of reality and push misfortune towards your foe. (Will save)
Critical success: Nothing
Success: The target is clumsy 1 until the end of your next turn.
Failure: The target is clumsy 2 until the end of your next turn
Critical Failure: The target is clumsy 2 until the end of your next turn and it loses one action point on its next turn
Reaction: As a reaction when the target of this hex would roll a save or be targeted with an attack you may change the result of the roll to be one grade worse for the target. A save becomes a fail, a miss against the targets AC becomes a hit. You may not make things critically fail or critically succeed with this reaction.
Chilling sweep (Reflex) (2 actions) – You brush the target aside with a chilling blow of disdain. You deal cold damage equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting ability modifier.
Sustain: On a failed save frost encases the target and you may sustain it on subsequent turns to decrease its movement speed by 5ft. You may not target a creature with chilling sweep that you’re sustaining frost against.
Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 1d4.
Earthen Clutch (Reflex) (2 actions) – The ground beneath the target reaches up grabbing hold of the target, crushing and pulling it down. You deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting ability modifier and creating difficult terrain beneath the targets feat.
Sustain: On a failed save the earth takes hold of the target, until you stop sustaining the target counts as always starting, and ending its movement in difficult terrain.
Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 1d4.
Warming embrace (2 actions) – You extend warming power towards your target encircling them in healing energy. You target heals for 1d4 plus your spell casting ability modifier.
You must refocus before you can target the same creature with warming embrace a second time.
Sustain – On subsequent turns you may sustain the hex to heal the target by your spell casting ability modifier again.
Heightened (+1) The initial healing increases by 1d4.
Enchanting force (2 actions) – Your direct your force of personality towards the target, compelling it to feel deference towards you.
The target make a will save whenever it rolls an attack against you or your allies.
Sustain: on subsequent turns you may sustain the hex on this target.
Critical success – Nothing happens
Success – The target takes a -1 circumstance bonus to their attack roll
Fail – The target takes a -3 circumstance bonus to their attack roll and takes psychic damage equal to your intelligence modifier.
Critical fail – The attack roll counts as having rolled a fail.
Old Rot (fortitude save) (2 actions) – You extend a powerful force of age towards your target. You deal negative energy damage equal to 1d4 plus your spellcasting ability modifier. If this damage would knock the target unconscious or kill them, you may deal half the damage again to another target within 30ft.
Sustain: On a failed save the old rot lingers and you may sustain it against the target to deal half the damage again (rounding up) on subsequent turns. You may not target a creature with old rot, if old rot is being sustained against it.
Heightened (+1) The damage increases by 1d4.
Shrouded by night – You may target yourself or an ally with this hex, the target counts as concealed until the end of your next turn. If targeted by a magical light effect the target’s concealment is negated.
Sustain: you may sustain this hex.
Major Hexes (LV8):
Major Hexes are focus spells unique to a witch and they may only be acquired through your patron and the patron wanderer feat. They all have a range or radius of 30ft and may all be sustained for upto a minute. You may never sustain more than one major hex.
Spoiler:
Major Hex list:
Earthen Ally (focus 4) (2 actions) – The very ground beneath your feet counts you as an ally and heads your guidance to strike down your enemies. Until the end of your next turn a 30ft radius around you counts as difficult terrain for your any creatures you regard as hostile. This area moves with you.
Sustain – If you use an action to sustain this spell you may make a spell attack roll, against one opponent if you hit the opponent takes 4D6 bludgeoning damage. On a critical hit they’re knocked prone.
Heighten (+1) The damage increases by 1D6
Death Stare (Focus 4) (2 actions) (Will save) – Debuff/Damage. You fix a target with your gaze, channelling all your understanding of death into their mind and must roll a will save.
Critical success – Nothing happens
Success – The target takes half damage
Fail – The target takes 5D10 mental damage and is frightened 1. This effect stacks with evil eye.
Critical Fail – The Target takes 5D10 mental damage and is stunned.
Sustain – On a failed save you may sustain this hex and the target must save again or take further damage, on a failed save the frightened condition is also sustained. On a critical fail the stunned condition is also sustained.
Heighten (+1) the damage increases by 1D10
Draw in darkness – (focus 4) (2 actions) The night wraps around you and your allies protecting you from harm. Until the end of your next turn a 30ft radius of darkness you, but your allies see normally.
Sustain – If you use an action to sustain this hex enemies within the darkness must make a fortitude save on a fail it takes 4d4 negative damage. On a critical fail they’re blinded.
Heighten (+1) the damage increases by 1D4
Royal Aspect – (Focus 4) (2 actions) You project your power to manipulate reality out into the world and allow it to wash over allies and enemies alike. Allies within 30ft of you gain a +1 one circumstance bonus to AC, hit and save rolls. This bonus stacks with fortune.
Enemies within the radius must make a will save or take a -1 circumstance bons to AC, hit and save rolls. This bonus stacks with Misfortune.
Sustain – On each turn you sustain this hex all allies heal for hit points equal to your spell casting ability modifier.
Withering Presence – (Focus 4) (2 actions) You project the boundless age of your patron out into the world and allow it to grind away at your foes. Any foe within 30ft of you must make a fortitude save or take 8d4 negative energy damage. On a success they take half.
Sustain – You may sustain this hex for upto a minute.
Heighten (+1) the damage increases by 2d4
Boundless Hope – (Focus 4) (2 actions) Hope pours out of you filling your allies with such certainty that their bodies begin to believe there is no way they might lose. Allies within 30ft of you heal for 4d4 hit points and any additional healing they receive from other sources is doubled.
Sustain: You may sustain this hex for upto a minute.
Heighten (+1) the healing increases by 1d4
Grand Hex LV19:
The grand hex is the pinnacle of a witches power and can only be granted via their patron. Each grand hex comes with an associated supreme status.
Spoiler:
Mistress of fates
Supreme status – The fates bend to your whims with barely a glance you can save a doomed creature or doom a saved one and bad luck is a thing of the past for you.
Whenever you would critically fail an attack, save or skill check you may reroll, you must take the new result
Once per day you may treat a failed save or hit roll as a success.
Grand Hex -
Control Fate (2 actions): You reach out and grasp control of another creature’s fate for the next minute. Once per turn as a free action you may alter saves and hit rolls by one grade, from success to critical success. If you attempt the degrade a result the creature may make a will save.
Upon casting the control fate hex and with a control fate action (1 action) on subsequent turns, you may teleport the creature to any un-occupied space within 60ft, including in the air.
As a reaction when another creature makes an attack roll you may switch the grasped creatures position with that of the attacks target and the grasped creature becomes the target. You may teleport the creature out of the line of an attack roll that targets it.
Life bringer
Supreme status – Life energy pours out of you, you cease to age and you may choose how old you appear each day when you commune with your familiar. If you stay in one place for more than hour plant life starts to spring up at your feet.
Whenever you must make a recovery check you gain a +5 circumstance bonus and your dying condition counts as 1 lower.
Whenever you receive healing from any source the result is increased by 1.5 times.
Grand Hex –
Eruption of life (2 actions): Pick one target creature (it can be yourself) and it is treated as being the target of the regeneration Spell. A 30ft radius of positive energy erupts from this target, healing all allies for 10D8+40 hit points, any healing over the creatures max hit points becomes temporary hit points. Any undead in the area take an equal amount of positive energy damage, on a fortitude save for half.
Friend of death
Supreme status – The lady of graves is familiar with you, and is in no rush to claim your soul, you continue to age but suffer no more ill effects of age.
Whenever you must make a recovery check you gain a +5 circumstance bonus and your dying condition counts as 1 lower.
You gain resistance to negative energy damage.
You always count as having died within the last minute for the sake of resurrection effects, like raise dead and attempts to resurrect you require no material component.
Grand Hex –
Quintessence stream (2 actions): You reach through the folds of creation dragging a river of quintessence into the material plane and hurl it towards your foes.
Everything in a 60ft cone makes a reflex save, creatures within the cone take 10D10 force damage. On a failed save creatures within the cone are knocked prone, forced back to end of the cones area of effect and the next time they take damage, double the damage dice.
Critical failure: The creature dies.
Queen of the land
Supreme Power – The earth counts you as one of its own, and where you walk, you’re never alone.
No natural landform is ever considered difficult terrain for you.
You count as permanently under the effects of speak with animals and speak with plants.
Once per day you may open a portal inside a tree and use it to travel to any other sufficiently large tree that you know, anywhere in the world, you and up to 10 allies may travel through this portal.
Nature’s rage (2 actions) – Animals, trees and the earth itself stampedes, rages and rips at your whim tearing your enemies asunder.
Animals, boulders and great trees slam into targets in a 60ft cone, anything in the area must make a reflex save for 10D10 bludgeoning damage, everywhere within the area of effect becomes permanently difficult terrain. Any creatures that remain within that difficult terrain at the end of their turn must make a reflex save or become restrained.
On the subsequent you can draw another 60ft cone from anywhere along the end emanation of the first. After the second cone the spell ends.
Critical success: No damage
Success: Half damage
Fail: 10D10 bludgeoning damage
Critical fail: 10D10 bludgeoning and the target is restrained to the ground.
Lady in shadow
Supreme status – The night knows you and follows you, even in broad daylight you’ll always be cast in half light.
You always count as concealed during combat, and can see through darkness and magical darkness as if it were daylight. Whenever you’re in dim light or darker you may use the slip through shadows action.
Slip through shadow (1 action): You teleport 30ft or less to an unoccupied space in dim light or darkness.
Grand Hex -
World of darkness (3 actions):
You summon the night as your ultimate ally to create a world of your own where you’re the master for the next minute.
A 120 ft radius of magical darkness bursts from you. All you allies within this area gain the same magical dark vision as lady in shadow grants you allowing them to see as though it were daylight.
All your allies also gain the slip through shadow action whilst they’re within the radios.
Whilst within the area of effect you gain resistance to all damage types. If you fall unconscious the effect ends early.
But it's not a matter of "This character is more versatile than any other character," it's "This class is more versatile than any other class." We are strictly talking class balance here. Can a Wizard cast Occult spells? What about a Druid, can they cast Divine spells? No? Then these classes aren't as versatile in their spellcasting choice as a Sorcerer is. Even if in practice, a given Sorcerer can only have 1 tradition to cast from at a given time, the fact of the matter is that I can make 4 Sorcerers, each able to cast from 4 different traditions, meaning in a party of 4 Sorcerers, as an example, I could encompass every spell list imaginable. Can I do that with a Wizard or Druid? Again, no, because they are restricted to one tradition (barring multiclassing).
That party of sorcerers can only cover a handful of spells from each tradition though. A party of wizards may lose versatility in being limited to a single tradition, but more than make up for it by potentially having access to the entire tradition's spell list.
Using that as a guage, a party of witches could be argued as the most powerful (in terms of versatility) because they get the best of both worlds: potential access to every spell AND access to every tradition.
Ironic for a class that many consider subpar.
The trouble with this line of thought is 2 fold
1) in real practical terms a wizard won’t have his whole tradition, and the power level of spells have been lowered significantly (rightly) which means more often than not, they’re probably going to have to prepare a lot of staples the same everyday, otherwise they’re liable to have dead slots, which they absolutely can’t afford in pf2 with the aforementioned lowered spell system.
2) sorcerers have fairly easy access to their own spell book for somewhat enhanced versatility, and signature spells, which essentially represent knowing more than one spell per spell (it’s useful to know fear at level 1 and 3 for example.) Sorcs have a lot more versatility than they did formally, relative to a wizard.
All this adds upto the issue that, yes a wizard can in theory be more versatile, but in practice the difference in versatility isn’t gonna be that massive and in exchange the sorc never has to worry about dead slots, and they have more slots to cast with.
And that’s before we even touch on their better focus spells and cantrips.
Whether they get more or less benefits than other classes based on their tradition choice is irrelevant
When your whole point is that the class needs to be weaker than other classes because of that choice, it's anything but. After all, if there's no benefit then nerfing the class isn't balance, it's spite.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not, because that is how Paizo made the class.
I mean it's clearly not. Otherwise they would have made the familiar matter.
I think the issue is, that they think they did make the familiar matter lol
I think that would fall into the same category as playing the lawful stupid paladin.
An alignment isn't an all consuming A.I code that moderates you ever decision without grey area (if anything a neutral character should understand grey area best)
I'd point to the flexibility written into Druid Anathema. Alignment is a guide to help you whilst roleplaying, in a game about fun. Its not a cast iron edict designed to drive a wedge between you and the rest of the game.
We killed this devil now, but this devil killed those soldiers just then - balance.
And again, I think it would be best to pick a thing you think is anathema to balance. Not try to control balance of all things on a macro scale. you're a person not an omniscient god.
I do notice on these boards a lot of people declare "I play my encounters like the PC party, ruthless going for the kill" as if anything else is bad dming and going soft on the party.
When to me it always screams "I play all my encounters with meta knowledge and ignore how monsters and animals are likely to behave in favor of trying to kill the party!" lol
I have noticed building an oracle of Pharasma that a their are a few alignment based feats and spells that would be cool but seemingly do nothing if you're neutral lol.
Like battle prayer, for example, I think circle of protection has the same problem and I'm sure there were a couple more.
I'm not sure if errtaing those spells and fetas would be the best way or just create some true neutral content.
For whats it worth, I think the way a true neutral character should work is pretty simple.
They pick something they think is an anathema to balance and work on getting rid of it, regardless of whether getting rid of it would be considered chaotic or lawful in one place or other. good or evil, that doesn't matter, its just about them nudging the scales in a particular direction.
This would usually be related to whoever they worship. So my bones oracle is very anti undead for instance.
Ostensibly that might be something regarded as good, but she's doing it because its for balance.
I suppose what I'm saying is intention might matter to a true neutral just as much as outcome.
