Master Soan

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Depending on the party composition. You could go the Bless Equipment route:

Bless Equipment
Improved Bless Equipment
Greater Bless Equipment

Giving you buddy archer (many shot rapid shot ...) the right bane against the enemy creature type is a huge damage boost.

My all time favorit:

Two ratfolks Unchained Rogue/Vivisectionist.

-Flank almost anytime thanks to Swarming (Racial Trait)
-Massiv damage via sneak attack and maybe teamwork feats
-Vivisectionist can heal and does not need many other spells because of sneak attack
- can use a tone of teamwork feats that work while flanking

Debuffing saves can be quite powerfull depending on your party setup:
For example someting like this can debuff saves by 6 on a charge:

Rouge (Scout/Thug) 4/Cavalier (Order of the Staff)

1st Level: Medium Armor Prof
2nd Talen: Offensive Defense
3rd Level: Power Attack
4th Talen: Furious Focus
5th Level: Intimidating Prowess
7th Level: Cornugon Smash

On a charge you deal damage and:

* Brutal Beating (sicken no save for 2 rounds -> -2 to saves)
* Free Intimidate (shaken -> -2 saves)
* Challenge Order of the Staff (-2 saves no save)

So any witch/wizard etc. should have an easy time to finish the debuffed target.

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Power Attack
+ Furious Focus

Belt of Thunderous Charging
Rhino Hide

Class Abilitys for charging:
Rogue (Scout/Thug) level 4 -> Scout’s Charge

If you combine this and add some intimidat skills feats you get something like this:

Race: Half-Orc
Class: Fighter 1/Rouge (Scout/Thug) 6
Level: 7th

STR: 18
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

1st Bonus: Power Attack
1st Level: Weapon Focus (Greataxe)
2nd Talen: Offensive Defense
3rd Level: Skill Focus(Intimidate)
4th Talen: Combat Trick(Furious Focus)
5th Level: Intimidating Prowess
6th Talen:
7th Level: Cornugon Smash


Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
Rino Hide 5165 gc
+ 1 Greataxe 2050 gc

Charge Damage: 3d6 + 1.5 x STR + 2d6 rhino + 3d6 sneak + power attck
+ Target is sickend (-1d6 damage) + free Intimidate with change that target flees


I have a Half-Orc battle shaman and its realy good. Half-Orc fav class bonus lets you add cleric spells to your class list.

So its possible to add divine favor to your spell list and Half-orcs can take the alterntiv trait bonus Sacred tatoo. If you combine this with the Fate's Favored trait you will have +2 to all saves and your divine favor grant X+l uck bonus.

Half-Orcs have great axe proficiency so this is nice weapon to use.
Combine this with power attack and you will deal amazing damage on early levels. Past 8th level the battle shaman has the ablilty to make his weapon bane as a SWIFT action. Expceialy in a low magic compain this will raise the DPR and helps with DR of most some kind.


Take Blood Arcanist (Fey) that will give a flat +2 DC to enchantment(compulsion) spells use sleep for early levels...

Check with you GM enchantment focus can make a GMs live a real pain, ending encounters the where planed for a evening in less than 10 sec.


If your not so keen for FoB. Master of Many Styles can get the Snake Fang feat by level 2. The problem with rogues/ninjas and other secondary frontliners is that the do not have the AC and HP to stay in the heat of battle for long...

Dex based with Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace, Combat Reflexes and Snake Fang. Can stay in battle for much longer. Using ki points for the dodge bonus... 4th level monk is engouh.

Focusing on defense with Offensive Defense rogue talent can give you a high AC bonus. Damage will come for fanking sneak attack bonus and from snake fang.

RAW the feat would work against a single target.

Realy nice feat can you tell me what prerequisites the feat has?

What is the source of this feat ?

Shriga wrote:

This thread is only 2 weeks old so I hope this isn't necro:

Several of you list brawling armor, but doesn't brawling armor explicitly not apply to natural weapons like claws/beak? I'm confused as to how this is useful...Or is it only applying to the kick for your multi-attack types?

Feral Combat Training (Combat)

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

So the this allows you to use not use the natural attacks with style feats, monk unarmed strike damage with the natural attack and many this more .... it's not only for flurry of blows...brawling armor alters unarmed strikes so with this feat it alters the natural attack too...

Warpriest Sacred Weapon reads:
"...Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level ..." Its an allways on ability that alters the damage dice for example the natural attack dice from the tengu claws increase from 1d3 -> 1d6 if a warpriest has weapon focus (claws)


I am quite certain it allways was a standard action. I personly build a heavy crowsbow using gnome. So i could reload and fire every round.
If you could have used explosiv missle with fast bomb it would be realy powerfull to the edge of been broken and in this case more than 100 threads about the topic would exist on this board...


Spirit’s Gift to give your Animal Companion fast healing 1 or damage reduction 5/adamantin is realy powerfull and fits the build...


The Primal Companion Hunter (Hunter Archtype) gains an evolution pool like the one a summoner gets for his eidolon. A Primal Companion Hunter can apply the evolution to himself if he has no animal companion.

So this can be realy good with a race that already has some natural attacks.

For example level 6th (9 Evolution Points):
- Energy Attacks (2ep, all natural attacks deal 1d6 energy damage)
- 2x Ability Increase (4ep, +4 Str)
- Magic Attacks (1ep, treat natural attacks as if they were magic)
- 2x Improved Natural Armor (2ep, + 4 Natural Armor)

This evolutions can be activated as swift action and can be used for a number of minutes per day equal the hunter level.

The selected evolotions completly free the neck slot you do not need the amulet of mighty fists but it sill does not hurt because you get you natural armor bonus from the evolution.


I personly like the range investigator...
Something like:

1st Human: Weapon Focus (Longbow)
1st Level: Ranged Study
3rd Level: Point-Blank Shot
5th Level: Precise Shot
7th Level: Rapid Shot

3rd Level: ???
5th Level: Quick Study
7th Level: Sickening Offensive

For melee trip buils can work wonders. I like Sickening Offensive as 7th level talent for both melee and ranged builds. Its a free debuff on EVERY attack against your studied target...


There are already classes that do extactly this...

1. Primal Companion Hunter that does not have an animal companion can apply the evolutions to itself.
2. Synthesist can wear his eidolon and applies so the evolutions to himself.

Both classes are quite powerfull. Makeing a new class with no spells and more or allways active evolutions and full bab will be most likly impossible to balance...


You can generate spelllists in many outputs formats on the site below. Takes ages to load but you can save the list in excel format and then apply autofilter to in excel...


Good guide!

But i think you underrated the Blood Arcanist. For some builds this can have a huge impact.

For example a caster specilised in enchantment (compulsion). The fix +2 to DC is realy powerfull. At 5th level this caster could take Potent Magic.

With a 18 Int and Spell Focus/Greater Spell Focus and a Headband of Vast Intelligence +2. This resulsts in huge DCs...

DC for compulsion spells
10 Base
+ 5 Int
+ 1 Spell Focus
+ 1 Greater Spell Focus
+ 2 Fey
+ 2 Potent Magic
+ X Spell level
21 + Spell level

Clear anyone playing such a thing must hate his GM but it is still nice in theory ;)


i am not sure but why bribe a dm ??

You can take weapon focus with natural attacks so why can't you take slashing grace for claw attacks ?

I am currently working on a dex focused hunter but some of the stuff is universal useable by any melee hunter.

1. Feat: Spirit’s Gift
This can be picked at 1st level. Each day you can give you animal companion DR 5/adamantin (stone spirit) or fast healing 1 (life spirit) for 24h. Makes any animal companion any animal companion nearly unkillable for early levels.

2. Teamwork feats: Outflank, Precise Strike, Pack Flanking, (Tandem Trip)
With this setup you get +4 to hit and 1d6 damage anytime you and you animal flank an opponent. Thanks to Pack Flanking you flank most of the time you and your animal attack the same opponent. In the case of wolf as animal companion i surgest to add Tandem Trip. So you wolf can roll twice on most trip attemts.

I like the mix of Oracle(Life) and Spirit Guide Archetype(Life Spirit). That will give you a huge amount of channel charges per day. Some alterativ way to use the channel charges can be realy good. This will result in more like a caster/support build. Something like this feat chain:

Bless Equipment
Improved Bless Equipment
Greater Bless Equipment

Giving your friend the archer bane for a few round by spending two of your channels can be realy good. On early level giving the fighters mace disrupt looks cool, too. With an Phylactery of Positive Channeling the duration increses by 2.

Actualy i would like such a build not only for the mechanics. I think it is possible to build a cool story around that. A guy that saw his father the cleric die on the battlefield. The clerics last words "I will always be with you my son...". That is where the oracle abilties start to manifest. The PC talks to his fathers spirit in the middle of a figth and the spirit gives him his channel power.

cheechako wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Or apprenticed to a master. Wizard is a studied class, so it takes the extra time.
Exactly. The concept is: wizards need specialized training, and that takes time. This is supported by RAW. However, the concept is broken as soon as a dumb level-1 fighter kills enough goblins (perhaps in just one day) and suddenly becomes a Fighter-1/Wizard-1. And thus, because of conflicting rules, I think this is a concept that can't be realized in RAW.

hmmm a fighter that becomes a wizard in one day by killing engouh goblins can be done by RAW. It's just realy bad roleplaying. A player could study his fathers spellbook for year and then suddenly could have a breakthrough ... that at least is ok roleplaying. If the dumb fighter becomes a wizard after 1 day ... i as GM would call down the 100d6 anvil (no save) and that would be bad GMing...

The best rgp that supports any concept does not prevent bad roleplaying...

Umbranus wrote:

There is a trait that would help with your concept but it lacks some rules background for extracting poison:

yeah, that is exactly the problem. It gives a bonus to a check that to my knowlege has no DC stated anywhere in the rules.

With the current rules most GMs will still make you pay at least 1/3 the listed poison price to preserve the poison... the reason should be clear if you get nearly unlimited poison doses this gets broken as hell....

Rules that are missing:
* How much can u extract from a creature without harming it?
* How long can you store this poison? Does it decay?
* How long does this take?
* What is the DC to extract?

Without this info it is unuseable and if this has no feat tax and can be used/stored for an infinate times/time it would be to powerfull ;)

I like the approach i have seen in much older rpgs where most monsters had an entry about which parts can be salvaged from the creature and what skill it takes to do so.... (hide for armor, poison, tooth as magic components etc.)

1. A PC that uses mainly poisons without blowing huge amounts of gold. Like milking its own pets (familar, animal companion, trained pets, etc.)

2. An alchemist who uses alchemy to temporary enhance items (Weapon oils, Armor polish stuff like that...)

I have concepts for both but there is so much stuff that has to be house ruled or that fits not fluffwise that i am not willing to bring this stuff to most tables.

For example for build 1. i would go with Vishkanya Alchemist (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist) but i would like to have someother way to uses the poison form pets. The the poison user can be done but the sub concept "milking" pets cannot...(with existing rules)

If a player wants to do somethings like this with me as a GM. I would try to do a feat or feat chain that would allow this stuff... like:

Poison milker
Prerequisites: Craft (Alchemy) 5 or poison use

Benefit: You can milk poison from trained poisonous creatures with an handel animal check DC equals poison DC plus creatures HD. If you fail the check no useable poison can be extracted, if you fail the check by 5 or more the creature bites you dealing attack damage plus poison. The procedure takes 1 hour of work and the creature looses is poison attack for 24h. You can get a number of poison doses equal to the creaures constitution modifier. The poison decays after 24h.

I allway like the brute Rogue. Focusing on a two handed weapon and str as a rouge gives some combat options a normal fighter does not have. If you deal sneak attack/power attack damage you can intimidate/debuff enemys for free... + so many skills.

Something like this:

Race: Half-Orc
Class: Fighter 1/Rogue (Scout/Thug) 6

STR: 17 +2 race + 1 @ 4th level
DEX: 13
CON: 13
INT: 13
WIS: 8
CHA: 12

1st Bonus: Power Attack
1st Level: Weapon Focus (Greataxe)
2nd Talen: Offensive Defense
3rd Level: Skill Focus(Intimidate)
4th Talen: Combat Trick(Furious Focus)
5th Level: Intimidating Prowess
6th Talen: ???
7th Level: Cornugon Smash


Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
Rino Hide 5165 gc
+ 1 Greataxe 2050 gc

VRMH wrote:

Don't have a build, but:

Drill Sergeant.

This is so easy to build Flagbearer (Feat) and Banner of the Ancient King (Item) are will most likly be the core of such build.

A bard can have so many different fluffs but buffing (self or party) will always be a part of the concept.

If i get the chance i would like to play a archer bard (Arcane Duelist) with a Designating (lesser/ greater) bow. That seams to be fun but is only good past 8th level.


Scavion wrote:
How does this bard take Flagbearer? The prerequisite is Cha 15.

I took this from a pre build char of mine and changed the stats form point buy 20 to point buy 15. I forgot the requirments ...So the stats have to look like this:

STR: 14 DEX: 13 CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 10 CHA: 15


Meet Mr. Drillsargent:

Race: Human
Class: Bard (Arcane Duelist)
Level: 9th

STR: 13 (+1 @ 4th Level)
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 13 (+1 @ 8th Level)

1st Human: Toughness
1st ADFix: Arcane Strike
1st Level: Flagbearer
2nd ADFix: Combat Casting
3rd Level: Dodge
5th Level: Lingering Performance
6th ADFix: Disruptive
7th Level: Weapon Focus (Rapier)
9th Level: Improved Init.

Banner of the Ancient Kings 18000 gp
Amulet of natural armor +1 2000 gp
Cloak of resistance +2 4000 gp
Chain shirt +1 1200 gp
Shield, light steel +1 1000 gp
Ring of Protection +1 2000 gp
Scimitar +1 2100 gp
Flagpool 0100 gp
Belt of giant strength +2 4000 gp


Saving Finale
Dazzling Blade
See Alignment
Cure Light Wounds

Mirror Image
Cure Moderate Wounds


This build lifes from giving as high as possible bonus on bardic performance as possible. +5 Attack and damage with bardic performance.
Saving Finale as a nice save buff.

Combat look like this:
Round 1: Start bardic performance (move) + Cast spell (Mirror Image or Hast)
Round 2: If any opponent closes in and you think you can handle him ativate arance strike and full attack ...


I personly would take the champion archtype (other compain trait). Just because it has some paladin offensive goodies i don't want to miss:

1. Mythic Smite (Ability) 5+ more smits per day
2. Impossible Speed (Ability) + 30 ft. to base land speed
3. Fleet Warrior (Ability) Pounce like ability. You want the full attack
4. Fleet Charge (Power) additional attack and move action

I am not sure but i think you can get some of this goodies from the Hierophant via the ability that lets you take one ability from an other path but that is only one.

If you do not mind losing trapfinding the best combo in my opinon is Scout + Thug archtype.

1. Power Attack + Furious Focus
2. Cornugon Smash (to demoralize as a free action on a hit)
3. A Weapon with high base damage greate axe/greatsword
4. Some equipment to boost the damage Rhino Hide (2d6 on a charge), Belt of thunderous charging (Weapon on size larger on a charge attack), Baldric, Bane ...
5. Some ways to increase Intimidate checks Intimidating Prowess,Skill Focus (Intimidate)

That all adds up to some nice damage and free debuffs on each charge/sneak attack: I. You can sicken on a hit (-1d6 sneak, no save), II. You can demoralize as a free action giving you a chance to render you opponent shaken or frightened.


Race: Vishkanya
+ Feat: Ability Focus (Toxic)
+ Sleep Venom
+ Sticky Poison
+ Weapon Finesse


Thank you for the explanation!
I realy missed the extra lines in the dervish dance discription. ;)

nate lange wrote:
(all of which use your dex for attack rolls and damage, and all of which gain 1 point of precision damage

I am a bit confused.

1. How do you get the dex to damage with your unarmed strikes?
2. The dualist gives precision damage only for light or one-handed piercing weapons. The scimitar is not ligth nor a piercing weapon. So i think this will not work? Or did i miss something?


Leadership or if your GM allows Eldritch Heritage with Wildblooded bloodlines Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan).

Pupsocket wrote:
I'm looking at a sword & board warrior who doesn't focus on shield-bashing, and ...

Please define "sword & board warrior" ...

Has this to be a figther or can it be any full BAB class. Is it ok to multiclass or can we use a 3/4 BAB class as long as the build is melee focused and uses a weapon and a shield ??


Just of the top of my head so please do not flame at me if somthing is a bit off:

Tengus + Alternate Racial Claw Attack

Gives you 3 primery natural attacks. You can use this with weapons but all primery natural attacks become secundary. Tengu Claws are treated as having the Improved Unarmed Strike feat for the purpose of qualifying for other feats -> Crane Style + Crane Wing

1st Level: Weapon Finesse
3rd Level: Dervish Dance
5th Level: Multiattack
7th Level: Piranha Strike
9th Level: ??

I call this poor mans TWF because you this will give you a hell lot of attacks with min. number of feats. The attacks are realy low damage but with smite you will deal rock solid damage.

Attacks @ 10th Level with Dex 20, Str 14: +15/+10 Scimitar, +13 Bite and +13 Claw

That is 4 attacks at 10th level and 5 attacks at 11th. With smite this will do serious damage.


d20pfsrd wrote:
Duergar are humanoids with the dwarf subtype

So by raw you count as dwarf for feat traits reqirments. It is not strictly clear (or at least i cant find it) if you need to be the race or have the subtype dwarf to take levels in this archtype. But as i read the rules it is engouh to have the subtype ...

FAQ wrote:

Racial Heritage: Can a human with this feat take levels in an archetype that requires you to be of a specific race?

Yes, the Racial Heritage feat allows you to qualify for archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement, assuming you still meet all of the other requirements to take levels in the archetype.

—Jason Bulmahn, 07/27/12

Racial Heritage is like you gain the suptype and it allows you to take archetypes that have the chosen race as a requirement. So i am quite sure the dwarf subtype a duergar already has qualifies to take Forgemaster archetype.

Why does you friend say you have to come up with the hell of a background ?? Even if he disagrees on my reading ... this archtype seams to fit well. Or has your friend a problem with you playing an evil race ?!


The wording on this item is not clear depending how you read it it gives a +4 DC:

Belt, Serpent

This items gives you the ability to create poisons a few times per day. If you do not spend ... gold low poison DCs are a smaller issue ;)

Jacket, Poisoner’s


Resentment wrote:
I have heard of the brute rogue, though I haven't tried it for myself. Unfortunately, I do like the idea of keeping trapfinding on my rogue as it seems like the only redeeming factor of being a rogue (and even then, some classes do it better).

Is it only the trap finding? Some people altough dislike the idear of sneak attack with a big axe ;) If this is not the case the the build could work without the Thug/intimidate part...

What about multiclassing has the build you are looking for to be pure rogue?

ArmouredMonk13 wrote:
That looks like an awesome build, Breiti. Mind if I make one minor suggestion though? if you don't, read the spoiler.** spoiler omitted **Finessing a light shield with TWF might be nice, may I suggest the [url=[/url]? It counts as a light wooden or steel shield with armor spikes according to the ultimate equipment, and does a d6 damage.

The armor would work but i picture more like savage rowdy so the rhino hides fits this thema. The defense is not realy the problem adding sneak attack dice as dodge bonus once the charge hits is nice and the penalties on your target give this build a virtual +4 to AC against single enemies.

The poster asked about a rogue build so i changed this on the fly. My plan for this build would be Rouge (Scout/Thug) 4/Alchemist(Vivisectionist) X. This way if chaging is not an option i can drink in invis extract. The mutagen and extracts could push my AC to a level that it does not hurt to much ;)


Resentment wrote:
(as it is the only optimal build for them; although I'd be happy if someone could prove me wrong).

This depends on if its still a rogue if you loose trap finding ;)

If it is then i call this the Brute Rogue

Race: Orc
Class: Rouge (Scout/Thug) 7
Level: 7th

STR: 17 (+1 @ 4th Level)
DEX: 13
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

1st Level: Medium Armor Prof
2nd Talen: Offensive Defense
3rd Level: Power Attack
4th Talen: Combat Trick(Furious Focus)
5th Level: Intimidating Prowess
6th Talen: Weapon Training (Greataxe)
7th Level: Cornugon Smash

Belt of Thunderous Charging 10000 gc
Rino Hide 5165 gc
+ 1 Greataxe 2050 gc

On a charge this build deals good damage the target is sickened and maybe shaken or with some luck frightened and flee. If it does rise and repeate ;)


I am not sure this can fit into the build, but maybe someone finds a way to get this into the build above ...

1 level Rogue (Thug)
+ Cornugon Smash

If you hit with your combo and power attack and you manage to demoralize your victim. It will try to fee Standing up (AoO) and move away (2nd AoO).

I would even try 8 level (Scout/Thug)

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Gnomes is red ??

+1 Level for Bomb damage that deal fire damage
and 1/2 bombs per level. Seams not so bad ...

Breiti wrote:
A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction.

I think this is selling agument ;)

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Most cleric achers use Guided Hand feat to use WIS instead of DEX for attacks with bows (e.x. Erastil).


You wizard needs Skill Focus(Spellcraft) and Hedge Magician trait...

I poersonly do think that TWF rogues can be realy good at feinting...
Just do not take imp feint ... the route here will be:

Two-Weapon Feint
Improved Two-Weapon Feint

Past level 8th this can become realy good.

For THW rogue i surgest the scout achetype.

Crown of Conquest

Breastplate of Command

Magic Archer: Is a nice spell that is on the same poser level as Magc Missle and that feels differnt engouh to be a spell on it's own i kind of like it.

Kinetic Barrier: Is good power wise, but TheRedArmy is right why 4 and not 5?

Thunderous Gale Form, Minor: This is a bit greedy. This spell gives the effect of hast, fly and gives you weapons/unarmed strikes a shock enchantment. Why should any high level PC memorize fly/hast when he can have this spell? (I kind of hate spells that make lower level spells make absolutly bad once you have the better version, the exception are some spell chains like the summon monster I- IX linie)

To setup a similar effect to fly, hast and shocking a PC without this spell has to cast hast + quickend fly + some costum item. Thats a level 7 and a level 3 spell slot + X gp for the item. I think this is a bit overdone. The 1 hp damage and fatigue (a condition that is easily removed at this level) can't rebalance this spell onto normal power level.


taski wrote:
I agree with you VM mercenario, and you Odraude. I had a talk with the PC in question earlier today and he is very stubbornly clinging to the idea that it doesn't matter what the party feels so long as he is playing true to his character design.

That's true sticking to character design is good. But he has to aceept that this is true for everone. My pladin would need a reason to take this guy with him into a dungeon. So if there is no good reason he would leave him behind, beacause taking this guy with him would just endanger everyone.

I do not understand why the cowerd does think he has more right to stick to his character design than the other players ...

If he wanted to play a cowardly PC he should have taked to you BEFORE the compain starts. So you could have given him a special propose for the compain. Maybe he is blessed by the gods and only he can open the last door in the dungeon ahead.

This why the other players would have a reason to take him to the dungeon and protect him at all cost, so everyone could stick true to character design.

But doing the the cowardly PC and so force everyone else not to stick to character design is bad play style...


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Poison kind sucks.

Have you done the math?

At Level 10th this build can poison his weapon as a swift action 4 times per day. Each use sticks to the weapon for 4 hits.

The save DC is 10 + CON + 1/2 HD + Ability Focus = 22!!
This poison can deal DEX damage or let the target fall unconscious!
Thanks to Celestial Poisons Evil Outsiders and Undead are not immune!!
And this are the numbers without equipment...

So please show me a melee build that can do a save on suck on a normal attack at a fairly high DC, 25 times per day (asuming 20 con, 20 int with items)

And there is more

- full sneak attack like a rogue
- Swift invis
- Pounce
- Poison bit
- Nearly full "alchemist casting"
- Mutagent can upgrade attack/damage or save DC

I can understand if you tell me its not well optimized or if you don't like it but i am quite sure this build does not suck ;)


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