Certain feats, class features, weapon runes, and other effects can grant you additional benefits when you make a Strike with certain weapons and get a critical success. This is called a critical specialization effect. The exact effect depends on which weapon group your weapon belongs to, as listed below. You can always decide not to add the critical specialization effect of your weapon.
Some of these changes seem to be incorporating the "streamline and sameify" approaches from 2e. Kasatha have 4 hands but can only effectively use 2 of them. Seems similar to the 2e approach to winged creatures that have wings but can't use them until PCs have access to flight via spells or equipment. From a player perspective, what's the point of being able to play as dozens of species if they all turn out to be pretty similar in how they play? I understand that this is being done in the interest of balance and ease of design but it has a real cost in terms of player customization and the joy of character creation.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Starfinder 2, just balance the game, don't destroy it!
What I mean, is please don't let mathematical balance flatten the beautiful diversity the Starfinder universe blossomed into! In coming online with Pathfinder 2 rules, I fear we will lose the winged races, Large races, and the damage scale for the epic high-tech weaponry that flatly SHOULD BE better than sword and board -sans epic magic, of course!
Also, I for one LOVE the original starship combat feel which, although complex, provides a great tactical feel that is reminiscent of some of the most notable moments in the sci-fi genre. As this is a somewhat optional component anyway, please don't set Enhaced's streamlined system as the default mode.
I see that the design philosophy calls out for balance, but please try to find a way that keeps the universe strange, alien, and different so player races don't feel like a bunch of costumed humans at a convention. Let aliens be Tiny, or Huge, Fly or whatever make them unique. The balance comes from what they trade from being so different and how they react with other races and ships/gear/etc. built for them.
To keep this positive, any who agree please post things you love about Starfinder 1 you hope to see carry over into the new edition.
Thanks for adding rhe clarity and insight from the design side- the side we only peek at! As another refugee from D&D, a game I loved for years, and love Golarion and hate to see it change. I DO like a lot of the new stuff, just will take getting used to. Will there be a new thing to replace the drow? A Golarion thing?
Fun Fact: in the 90s I didn't allow drow in my home games because they were a Forgotten Realms and everyone was obsessed with them, lol
It's been hinted at quite a few times that the drow mythology on Golarion was created as a 'cover' for ancient civilizations allegedly destroyed by the Azlanti and Cyclopean empires.
One of the more reliable sources about Darklands sorts of things was also doing his level best to suppress knowledge of some of the dangers in an effort to secure against them/prevent those dangers from being aware they'd been 'found out'.
He even quit his job in furious protest over it when his bosses decided to go to press anyways.
We try not to do in-game explanations for standard errata or full edition changes (with the Remaster living between those two extremes, but being far closer to errata than an edition change), because the number of times that a game goes through those changes is so frequent that if we had to explain them in-setting every time, it would make the setting feel ridiculously impermanent and chaotic. Instead, our goal is to make sure that whatever we do to change the rules, that they work to keep the stories we want to tell the same, thematically, going forward.
Otherwise we might as well just start over from scratch and build an entire new campaign setting each time, and that's not feasible.
I get that, and I appreciate what Pauzo is and the circumstances that have come about due to ... everything. But things do feel impermanent and chaotic when things keep changing. Little tweaks and rules are one thing, but this is fairly huge. Rulewise, maybe not so much as an edition, but lorewise it's a reboot in some ways. Feels like a missed opportunity to tell more story and document and acknowledge the things that are going away for those who care about such things
Chill Touch-->Void Warp is now ranged and has no effect on undead
Ray of Enfeeblement--->Enfeeble no longer requires a spell attack roll (relevant for the Magus' Spellstrike)
...and other spells with boosted damage or effects that may outstrip legacy spells, like Acid Spash--->Caustic Blast, again no spell attack and now is an AoE instead of just splash damage.
These are the things I notice immediately as they affect my necromagus build, now possibly imperiled if my GM goes to Remastered.
Spells definitely work differently.
Finoan is correct. Nothing is changed.
But you know what's funny? Even if it had really changed exactly as you've wrote? You ask about changes in fiction, in-universe. Everything you give as an example, even if true, changes absolutely nothing at all in-universe. Fiction hasn't changed.
Fiction and story don't know what 'spell attack roll' is.
Fiction and story can't distinguish between AoE and splash damage.
Fiction and story don't care if it were 'negative' or 'void' damage when it's the same thing, and especially if you use one version. Or if using both they can be synonyms. Or different people in-universe could use different words.
Fiction and story mostly don't care about spells' names either: basically any caster already can name their spells as they like.
So no, 'spells' don't work differently at all.
Synonyms, fine. Characters are unaware of game mechanics, yes. However, spell attack is a prerequisite for the Magus Spellstrike feature without a specific feat, and there are noted differences in how some spells affect undead. That is in fact different.
The dragons are not warped. We will just focus on ones that have not been in the spotlight before.
Just like everyone took Magi, Oracles and Witches in the setting in stride without batting an eye that we never knew they existed before.
I say "warped" as in they are different than they have been, and spells work differently than they have. This suggests a specific magical anomaly that could at least be alluded to and I could deal.
Also, I don't take these things in stride very well- I waited anxiously for the release of chara ter options to support my preexisting characters is PF2 and STILL await several options that have yet to return (ninja, samurai, bloodmage maybe?). Hard to explain why these characters disappear for a while while the book is at the printer, lol
From experience, sweeping in-universe rationales for game mechanic changes tend to be extremely awkward and rarely (if ever) satisfying to read or experience. Especially given that often these universes don't tend to work all that hard to remain rules compliant in the first place.
It's also not always practical. Like consider your request re: Drow. If the point of removing Drow is to disentangle official setting material from other licenses and IP, then telling a story about where all the Drow went is literally undermining that.
I dunno- I think an attempt at explaining the sudden changes is more satisfying than none at all. I do get your second point though. IP issues like drow could be alluded to and replaced by other creatures, I like the false report idea. I'd like to see a lot more background about these "cavern elves" that appeared in PF2, serpent men and svartalfar could explain the rest. I wanna know about the dragons and magic- as creatures of magic, a disturbance in the fabric of reality would warp them as well... I WANT to like it, just gimme something more than "see the errata and GM Core" Even ther titles feel soulless.
As a longtime player, one of the most jarring things to the continuity of a game world in which our campaigns exist is a new edition or a remaster. Even when the changes are good for the game, it shatters continuity of storytelling. Why not make an in-game rationale for why things are changing? Tell me where the drow went, what evolved the dragons, what warped magic! Was there another Earthfall level event? A war of the gods? Maybe it was to gain freedom from a corrupt cabal of Sorcerers by the Sea... just gimme something to work with and and I'm in!
I was the rogue in this fight. Seemed weird to me to lose agency in something that requires precise (and to my mind, intentional) damage. When you consider that the Confused condition imposes the Flt-Footed condition as well, there would be no way for a character with the sneak attack ability to avoid using it under a strict ruling.
The whole "this race of people are just innately evil" was always irksome less because it's offensive and more because it's lazy.
I think some of this comes from original authors of books, games, etc. created heroes and villains- and told the story from the side of the heroes without much detail given to the other. This is fine for video game minions but becomes problematic when history is treated this way. Fans are now asking for deep explanations of motivating forces for every monster in the book, partially because they want to play them (as I do often), but innate evil is another separate rabbit hole. How about genetic tendency toward aggression, cultural practice of demon worship and/or cannibalism? These are tendencies, but not inviolate rules, but they set a default for monstrous races that I really don't see an issue with.
The problem then is at this point we either just trash pretty much any flavour from the ancestries or we cut from the past by rebranding them. If orcs, drow etc are always going to be problematic due to what some people 10 years ago wrote then they might as well just be cut.
Strong disagreement. Orcs and drow were written as enemies, their species influenced by evil outsiders and/or cultivated specifically for nefarious purpose. You're special exceptional character (Drizzt) was a breakout requiring story explanation. Rebranding feels a cheap fix to imagined parallels to real world humans that these fictional species are not.
A lot of the "wrong ancestry" argument comes from optimizers- a halfling barbarian who exceeds an orc barbarian given the cultural and genetic tendencies for each species is exceptional, legendary even. Why cheapen that?
Flies, being monstrous creatures with animal intelligence, are gonna do what flies are going to do...
...which could include just flying off into the swamp where there are most certainly a population of hundreds more just like them doing whatever they do.
Skeld wrote:
The Devils in your example, OTOH, can be negotiated with...
...BUT are the epitome of Evil and will, by their very nature, try to twist any deal to corrupt the souls of all they can and send them to Hell.
Events have come about that have prompted a somewhat shady challenger to run against the current respected mayor of the town our campaign is set in, as well as one of my PCs entering the race. The challenger has recently gained some headway and respect, and the incumbent mayor has recently had to deal with some troubling familial matters (but this has cost him both focus and funding for his campaigning). My party is currently exploring the megadungeon near town (and likely to soon trigger events that directly and adversely affect one or more participants), and the election I set for two weeks hence.
How would you run this election? I am leaning toward two political debate mini-games wherein my PC-candidate makes skill checks against the other two, with options for the other PCs to assist by working the crowd, digging up dirt on the opponents, glowing testimonials of the PC's deeds, etc.
I want to make this fun and interactive, but I am cool with anyone winning. Campaign specific details with minor AV spoilers posted in this thread.
I actually started using Christmas wrapping paper! Many have 1" grid on the back and are perfect for maps, they can be obtained cheap after Christmas and/or at dollar stores, and have jarringly festive prints to balance the gloom and doom you'll be scrawling on the reverse side, mwahaha...
I really love this stuff- I work with my daughter and her crayons, I do the line work, she draws and colors the furnishings. I purchased a roll of plastic that covers my map and allows for dry erase markers to be used, and you can put blank sheets under or over the plastic to add "fog of war" in unexplored regions. I no longer do this, however, I simply place "dummy tiles" over secret doors/regions.
@Rysky- we can converse and even disagree without the snark.
@CorvusMask- "I don't really see why there needs to be playable ancestry that is always chaotic evil..." ALWAYS would be terrible, DEFAULT to vary from is what I'm after. It's OK if that's the norm, but this character, or even this story is different!
@keftiu- I feel like the only dissenting voice and you seem to speak for what most here seem to want, so I see no need to argue difference opinions. I always enjoyed homebrewing things to be different, rebelling against the expectation with monsters, but when it becomes the norm it feels less special I guess. Very, VERY different from the games I grew up with.
How many times can you do that story, though? The first Drizzt novel came out in 1988 - the singular good guy Drow in a world that hates and fears his kind has been a fantasy genre mainstay for coming up on 40 years.
...but what of the players that never experienced that because unlike me (and maybe you) they're under 40 years old?
keftiu wrote:
Sometimes, you just want to play a Gnoll because you think hyenas are cute, or you reach for a Hobgoblin because you like the sound of being a military-trained alchemist - demanding those characters all have suspicion baked into their stories is frustrating and limiting. All of these published Ancestries are meant to be used! It’s a big, fantastical world out there in Golarion, and there’s places for damn near anything to find a home.
Sure, but then there really needs to be some differentiation between these races to make them into the different species that they are, otherwise it feels like a great big costume party- humans in funny suits trope.
I get the desire for one big happy world, but adventure often comes in response to adversity. I LOVE playing around and through difficulties, but this isn't everyone's style. I LOVE when characters break stereotypes, but they have to exist to stand out against them.
There will need to be some monsters left to fight. I was kinda annoyed with the sudden acceptance of goblins, and the frequency of casual tieflings everywhere. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE playing monstrous races, but I feel to take away the struggle for acceptance in the civilized world robs them of an important character-building experience (and one that many players can relate to). I certainly don't love racism or xenophobia, but the struggle (and victory) over such forces for the monsters who overcome their circumstances of birth is something I prefer to put in the hands of players rather than cannon.
I think diversity makes things more fun/interesting in general, but I'm against rote "party balance" for its own sake. I prefer a more organic, story-driven party composition. Play what you want and enjoy the results. Unless the group is hand-picked by an outside force, it doesn't make sense to always have a formulaic party.
I think the best option 3 is to jsut let people choose. A spray of bludgeoning water is fine, but no reason to shut out the ice mages to let it happen.
I completely agree. I feel like these are possibly subdomains of the water element, as lightning could be seen as being of air OR arguably fire. See also Azula.
Fighter doesn't have to be as bland as some may unintentionally make them sound. They don't have to be one-trick ponies! Pick a weapon or two you like with useful traits- say, a polearm with Reach and Trip. Take all the feats that get the most out of these, like Lunge and Assurance: Athletics. You'll be surprised how much utility you'll get at range, Tripping with your 3rd action, flanking with the champion for big damage- just have back up weapons/tricks in case something gets broken or doesn't work with an enemy type you weren't expecting!
I played a scythe-wielding Inexorable Iron Magus, a Sparkling Targe in another campaign, as well as helping build a number of other types. I found a couple interesting points to consider for Iron Magus (my favorite so far):
1. Arcane Cascade stance is great, and gives the Iron Magus temp HP each round. The extra damage is just a cherry on top, until it exploits an enemy weakness- then it's pure gold. As a stance, you only need activate it once during combat and will remain in stance until knocked down, disarmed, etc. OR you can re-enter stance after casting a different spell to change your extra damage type. (I like to think of it like residual dweomer from your spell captured by your weapon's movements).
2. Shield is a solid cantrip for you because you can use it with your two handed weapon, and it adds Force damage to your strikes. When in doubt, open with this cantrip and enter Arcane Cascade stance. Safe and defensive, and almost all monsters are affected by force damage.
3. Unless you plan to use Expansive Spellstrike or cast a lot of spells outside of Spellstrike (which you might, with your stated wizard free archetype) you don't really have to have a high INT. Spellstrike requires your weapon to hit (that's STR for Iron Magus or maybe DEX for others). Unless it requires a saving throw your INT doesn't really matter for most spells. Some add damage per spellcasting modifier, yes, but by and large you don't HAVE to. Just pick spells that don't depend upon INT for damage and have no saves, round out with a few utility spells (summons, buffs) and you're fine.
-I'd likely, since it fights/corrals demons, have its natural attacks count as cold iron.
It has that per the Infuse Weapon ability, but I believe older editions granted damage resistance bypass to creatures of high hit dice, so good call there.
Castilliano wrote:
I'd scale back the weapon drop, giving more (if not all) of the abilities via Infuse Weapons.
Here's the real sticker: in [That Other Game] 2nd edition abyssal weapons were keyed to their wielders- soul-bound if you will- and dissolved once tha fiend was slain. If not, they were likely forged elsewhere... or so the text I'm paraphrasing read. In order to wield that axe, you have to steal it and keep the molydeus alive, who naturally would hunt you day and night without ceasing to bring the thief to torturous ruin. Imprisonment comes to mind, and I've since seen versions of this fiend that give it this ritual with the focus being a grand gem set in the pommel of this very axe...
I actually started using Christmas wrapping paper! Many have 1" grid on the back and are perfect for maps, they can be obtained cheap after Christmas and/or at dollar stores, and have jarringly festive prints to balance the gloom and doom you'll be scrawling on the reverse side, mwahaha...
I really love this stuff- I work with my daughter and her crayons, I do the line work, she draws and colors the furnishings. I purchased a roll of plastic that covers my map and allows for dry erase markers to be used, and you can put blank sheets under or over the plastic to add "fog of war" in unexplored regions. I no longer do this, however, I simply place "dummy tiles" over secret doors/regions.
Pics later tonight if anyone is interested as I am finishing up level 7 for tomorrow's game.
Have the barbarian be the bodyguard of one of the aspiring mages, given their resistances to spells they could be an excellent counter to rival spellcasters.
Nox Arcana, Midnight Syndicate, Erang, or your favorite "dungeon synth" are all solid choices. I use Cryochamber for creepy/otherworldly ambiance, and Summoning is an amazing band in general. Also, Dance with the Dead is great for high-energy fight music.
We had an inventor from Guns & Gears (then the playtest) in group when we encountered the clockworks who were "beyond repair". She took them back to her shop in town and they became NPC assistants. Now that automaton is an ancestry, these two (dubbed Cogsworth and Phoebe) are back-up PCs if someone drops or a new player drops in as a guest.
Through painstaking comparisons of the molydei across various editions of [That Other Game] as well as balors and mariliths that persist into Golarion I have been able to conjure this faithful representation of the Molydeus (once called a "guardian tanar'ri") to keep the denizens of the Abyss under the sway of the demonlords:
MOLYDEUS:
CREATURE 19
CE HUGE DEMON FIEND
Source ... Recall Knowledge - Fiend (Religion): DC44
Perception +34; darkvision, true seeing
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic; telepathy 100 feet
Skills Acrobatics +33, Athletics +36, Deception +34, Diplomacy +33, Intimidation +36, Religion +30, Society +30, Stealth +31
Str +9, Dex +6, Con +11, Int +6, Wis +6, Cha +8
Items +3 greater striking dancing vorpal cold iron greataxe `
Attack of Opportunity
________________________________________
Speed 40 feet
Melee +3 greater striking dancing vorpal cold iron greataxe +38 [+33/+28] (evil, magical, reach 15 feet, sweep), Damage 4d12+17 slashing plus 1d6 evil + decapitation Activate envision (death, incapacitation); Frequency You roll a natural 20 on a Strike with the weapon, critically succeed, and deal slashing damage. The target must have a head; Effect The target must succeed at a DC 37 Fortitude save or be decapitated. This kills any creature except ones that don’t require a head to live. For creatures with multiple heads, this usually kills the creature only if you sever its last head.
Melee bite (canine head) +36 [+31/+26] (disarm, evil, fire, magical, reach 15 feet), Damage 4d8+17 piercing plus 1d6 evil
Melee bite (snake head)+36 [+31/+26] (evil, magical, reach 15 feet), Damage 4d6+17 piercing plus 1d6 evil plus transformation.
Melee tentacle +34 [+31/+28] (agile, grapple, evil, magical, reach 15 feet), Damage 4d6+17 bludgeoning plus grab
Transformation (poison, polymorph, transmutation) Trigger The molydeus bites a living creature with its snake head. Effect The victim of the molydeus’ snake head bite must succeed on a DC 38 Fortitude save or transform into a dretch in 1d6 rounds. A neutralize poison, remove curse, or remove disease spell stops the transformation. Once transformed, the victim is beyond restoration, short of divine intervention or a very carefully worded wish.
Divine Rituals DC 38; 1st abyssal pact, imprisonment
Dimensional Dervish A molydeus can cast their 5th-level innate dimension door with only a single action.
Infuse Weapons (divine, evocation) Any weapon becomes a +2 greater striking weapon made of cold iron and silver while a molydeus wields it. The molydeus can change its evil damage to chaotic whenever it attacks.
Hail! I am an aspiring necromancer traveling through Varisia. We have made somewhat of a name for ourselves in Sandpoint as arcane researchers and problem solvers, specializing in matters of the undead. I would prefer to practice my craft openly to show the townsfolk that neromancy can be used to aid the living, but wish not to violate local law. Any and all undead in my thrall are animated from slain monsters, summoned from my Robe of Bones, or temporarily summoned via spells. Any dangerous undead captured in the field are destroyed before they can slip control. Is it possible to keep a few undead pets in my retinue (perhaps with a special writ from the mayoy/governor) or is this actually against local law?
Ok, let me try to respond to everything by supplying more details:
The item we made is a pair of gloves that can cast cure light wounds at will as a standard action (it's a touch spell after all). We have, nor need, no dedicated healer in the party. Later, I intend to make an opposite glove that casts inflict light wounds- for the undead of course.
The only similar item I found was the Gloves of Bony Power. from the Armory of Nethys.
Also, I very carefully considered the rules of the chart as far as CL (we chose 1, because you can set the CL as low as you like) and spell level (also 1). "Use-activated or continuous" items cost Spell level x caster level x 2,000, ergo 2000gp in total. Giving it "charges per day" reduces the cost (and effectiveness), but the party can easily pony up the cash for the downtime healing.
I have missed no detail so minor as "forgetting a step" or consulting GM approval, merely given the above facts both he and I are on the fence about this. I have read all posts I could find related to the topic prior to posting.
So accordind to the item creations rules, it seems that my over 3 necromancer can craft a wonderous item that casts Cure Light Wounds all day for 2000gp (spell level 1 * caster level 1 * 2000). The party bard is assisting the crafting by casting the spell. This feels cheap somehow, but is it legal? The gm will allow it if rules support it.
Also the lead singer of Behemoth, which leads me to my next idea- black metal names. Black metal bands and their members often take on awesome, archaic sounding monikers like Lord Abrimahn, Themgorath, Blackmoon, Shagrath, Vortex,etc.
Not into black metal? Too bad, really, but you can still mine it for badass names, lol.
Another neat source to borrow names from is video games. We fought a pair of reoccurring skeleton warriors named Biggs and Wedge (of Final Fantasy). Younger players may not get the references and just think you made up neat names, those who know will appreciate it.
The Diablo series had cool boss names that may suit, and a quick wiki search should turn up a list.
I recall Soulpus, Rotfeast the Hungry, Rotcarnage, The Butcher, Bilefroth, Stareye the Witch, etc., etc., etc...
Hahaha... after reading all the other entries, I also offer you these:
355. How to Cook Humans- A dusty old tome written in an unknown language (except for the title, of course) appears to be a culinary manual of some kind from a monstrous race (insert creature type or leave ambiguous) involving... wait... clears off some dust...the title seems to be:
How to Cook For Humans- ahh, much better. But wait, there's still more dust... clears off some more dust...now it says:
How to Cook Forty Humans- Well that's terrible! ...no, still more dust... clears off the last of the dust...at last, the true title reads:
How to Cook For Forty Humans- well, it seems clear who the monsters in this library really are.
DC10, 15, and 20 perception check to reveal each portion of the title
356. Lady Cottington's Pressed Fairy Book- This is a reproduction of the diary of Lady Angelica Cottingham, which features pressed garden fairies. Or rather the psychic images of the fairies, who quickly turned it into a game, where they leapt between the closing pages in an effort to outdo each other to produce the most outrageous poses. The book claims to be the facsimile edition of the notebook of Lady Cottington who, it is said, took the infamous photograph of a group of fairies that was authenticated by Conan Doyle, but later discredited. She was determined to prove the existence of fairies and began to capture them between the pages of her notebook, in which she had previously pressed wild flowers. This is a record of the fairies she caught, and of the disruptive influence they had on her otherwise sheltered life. (images from the real book)
352. The Books of Blood- This collection of spellbooks appears to have belonged to a necromancer named Pogrist the Great. Penned neatly on bleached vellum in what is purportedly his own blood, these leather bound tomes describe the wizard's research of blood magic and necromancy in many strange lands, treatises justifying this pusuit of forbidden knowledge, the fates of various mentors and later apprentices, and his eventual ascension to lichdom to extend his tenure indefinitely.
Depending upon the completeness of the set (GM's discretion) they also contain several necromantic spells, as well as spells dealing with blood (such as blood transcription, blood biography, etc.). A caster preparing spells from these books gains +1 caster level to all necromancy spells thus prepared, and some more complete copies may grant the benefits of the metamagic feats Thanatopic Spell and/or Threnodic Spell (with the usual cost in spell level as though the reader had said feats).
353. Planewalker- A weathered, unsigned journal describing what seems to account for several lifetimes of exploration and study in strange yet strangely familiar worlds named Toril, Azeroth, Faerun, Nirn, ...and Golarion- all the while posing as a native in each. A DC20 skill check in Proffesion: Scribe or similar skill will reveal the penmanship remarkably similar to another lengthy work...
354. Master Engineer Kaang's Compleat Collection of Schemata on All Things Clockwerk, Mechanikal, and Steamcraft- An intricately illustrated technical manual (in long-winded, archaic gnomish) detailing the (presumably) theoretical applications of magic, clockwork, and steam power to create various bizarre devices including firearms, automatons, force field generators, and airships devised by a Master Engineer Kaang. Studying this work for one week may provide a +2 insight bonus to crafting rolls pertaining to any device described within, although the actual odds of a given device working are up to the GM of course.
I read some weird RAW where a guy stated his spell component pouch contained fire- FIRE- because of some silly interpretation of the item's description and the pyrotechnics spell.
To put it another way ... if the creator of something is always right, why aren't we still driving around in Model Ts?
Because people's tastes suck now? I'd TOTALLY drive a steampunked model T... haha
Here's the Paladin's Code from D20 PFSRD:
A paladin must be of lawful Good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.
Loopholes are identified. Nothing I read there necessitates a zealot (although it certainly can include them), rather requires a character to have high yet attainable moral principles.
Back to the OP though, even the best, most flexible paladin will likely have trouble in such a group, and I have my doubts this player is making such a paladin anyway.
I don't see how being Lawful Good is a ridiculously unkeepable code, but perhaps you've only encountered "Lawful Stupid" paladins or bad GMs. Same defense I used for the necromancers in the thread suggesting they should be banned.
True, under the right circumstances a paladin could work with evil creatures/characters, aiding and abetting evil actions will definitely (quickly if not immediately) violate even the most lax code.
Summary:
Paladins and necromancers? Possibly difficult if they follow stereotypes, but possible
Paladins and Chaotic Evil necromancers? VERY difficult, but not impossible, given good RP reasons (see Bardess' post above)
Paladin in an all Evil party? Unless HE is the captive, or some extreme situation (which would be a lot more interesting a topic and more on the OP) I can't see it.
Before you ask how such a party would or wouldn't work, ask yourself how such a party would even happen!
(An evil dwarf, minotaur, and necromancer walk into a bar, when along came pally...)
I made a scythe-weilding,LE tiefling cleric with Death and Artiface domains- esentially a Phyrexian or Cryxian (depending which other game you play, mwahaha...). Great damage dealing reanimator who also healed a bit. Klyfe Doomsayer, a.k.k. "Doctor" Klyfe.
Sounds like a poor candidate for a necromancer, with the inexperience and "gimme-gimme" attitude. This is a problem player, regardless of class. Tread carefully, but remain in charge without being directly confrontational. You are the referee, and as such, the rules will play him out if you enforce them.
1. Read the many posts on necromancers that I have defended them in, and note the opposition. While collecting and reanimating minions is "normal" for the class, it cannot be done blatantly without social repercussions (or a LOT of explaining, Bluff and Diplomacy checks). He will need to use discretion, else mobs of outraged villagers are likely to burn him at the stake. Make his cool powers worth something to him by the inherent risk
2. Underpowered? Hardly. There are tons of crippling spells and combos available to an experienced necromancer, like the create undead spell that spawns everything from ghouls to devourers. Don't give him everything he wants or he'll overpower your game. Make him earn the spell he wants, listed above, at the appropriate level. His character is not underpowered, just not yet powerful enough to bowl over the GM. Yet.
3. Necrotic Cysts are D&D 3.6, yes? That can be your first restriction, as they may not prove fully balanced for Pathfinder. How are they unlimited in use? It's a 2nd level spell, am I right? How often can he cast it, and does he not have to succeed in a touch attack to deliver it?
Control your allowed content, if your newish, start simple and add options (as far as 3rd party or D&D3.5, use caution). Make players at least feel like they're responsible for solving their own power issues- want more power? Quest for it, gain experience, research spells, etc. No gimme's. Also, evil characters in a mixed aligned group usually yield difficulty.
What level are you starting/currently playing at?
What are the other players classes/alignments?
What content is permitted in your game?
Arcainist- Gebbite human or dhamphir male
Bloodrager- Ulfen male or female
Brawler- Tien oread male, or Chellish human female (with Hamatulatsu)
Hunter- Ulfen gnoll male with a hyena. Oh yea
Investigator- male dwarf or gnome
Skald- Ulfen half-orc male
Slayer- Chellish half-orc female, or human female from Sunnydale
Swashbuckle- Half-orc female
90% won't happen in Golarion, but these are akin to PCs I'd make.
Also, whatever a "loligoth" is, that's about enough usage of any one word for a while, lol.
I've been playing a lot of the same characters from 2nd ed. D&D since the late '90s, updating them to each edition, although usually in a world nonspecific way. I even make my favorites on MMORPGs and video games like WoW and Skyrim as closely as I can, even though the RP factor is slight in these cases. Now that Pathfinder is in full swing and I'm involved in organized play and modules, I'd like to adapt them properly to Golarion.
I have a character that I originally rolled as an LE antipaladin of no specific god, who is more L than E in character. Think judge Dredd meets Darth Vader, but with a touch of humanity keeping him from being a true villain. In 4e I adapted him as a grim "unaligned" paladin of the Raven Queen. The nearly obvious choice would be convert to Pharasma, but she doesn't have paladins.
Also, given her strict stance on undead, would she ever curse a fallen follower with undeath under any circumstance? In D&D, deathknights can arise from fallen paladins, but what of Golarion's graveknights? (This is important for some end-game stuff, as I've also used high level NPC versions of some characters in games I've DMed, and I'd like to keep character details consistent if worlds are not).
Hopefully one of you better versed in Golarion and /or Pharasma can point me in the right direction.
Oh, the possibilities are ENDLESS! What skills are required? Leatherwork? Taxidermy? Yes, yes, and what of using more powerful or unique creatures? Do they retain any extraordinary abilities?
I have a character that eats babies. Oh Mr Paladin? This offends you? Tough! Mwahaha! It's legal baby!
They have ruled out cannibalism out of hand, to the point of scrapping blood magic and blood drinking dhampir feats with it. Baby-eating is neither a serious contender nor a fair comparison.
I am playing a necromancer as perfect for Society as any could be- NOT bent on destroying all life with undead, NOT dedicated to animating every dead thing, but a seeker of arcane and forbidden lore, morally neutral (more or less, but NOT evil), willing to work with/learn from others, and driven to explore- this seems to coincide with Society goals.
If you play a necromancer or paladin or cleric or unicorn-wrangler who has similar interests- YOU ARE A PATHFINDER CANDIDATE. If you're overarching character goals forbid you to Explore, Report, and Cooperate, YOU ARE NOT A PATHFINDER CANDIDATE. That's simple enough, I think.
