Which class to play?


Advice


(I am new here, so forgive me if this is the wrong forum.)

So, my first character just died. Yey. I need a new one, but I don't know that much about the different classes. what class would be a good fit for this party composition: We have an Investigator, an undeath Sorcerer and a Champion. My last character was a battle oracle and I felt a bit redundant. The Champion hits harder than me and the Sorcerer solves all the charisma-based stuff. Also, I kept forgetting my curses effects, etc. So, any recommendations on what class to play? Without multi classing?


A Thaumaturge built for offense: you can support the Champion in melee and leverage the protection they can lend you, while having fun abilities.


I think a Druid with an animal companion might be good. The companion to help beef up the frontline and some primal spellcasting for backup.


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Strictly speaking, the answer to this question is almost always fighter, given that it is the best martial class in the system and is a good addition to just about any party. If you want to play a caster, pick Maestro bard for similar reasons. If you want to play a melee hybrid/gish consider a dragon or plant summoner.


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Is the investigator melee or ranged?

Because the champion needs a melee ally to properly shine.

If the investigator is already melee, you can go with several options.

Starlit span magus, for example, with psychic dedication would make you feel great, dealing a massive amount of damage, while saving supportive spells for your front line.


HumbleGamer wrote:

Is the investigator melee or ranged?

Because the champion needs a melee ally to properly shine.

If the investigator is already melee, you can go with several options.

Starlit span magus, for example, with psychic dedication would make you feel great, dealing a massive amount of damage, while saving supportive spells for your front line.

Thansk for the advice! The Investigator isn't melee. He avoids close combat as good as he can. So we ideally need another melee character? Idk if I want to play a magus. Any other suggestions?


Lorkan wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:

Is the investigator melee or ranged?

Because the champion needs a melee ally to properly shine.

If the investigator is already melee, you can go with several options.

Starlit span magus, for example, with psychic dedication would make you feel great, dealing a massive amount of damage, while saving supportive spells for your front line.

Thansk for the advice! The Investigator isn't melee. He avoids close combat as good as he can. So we ideally need another melee character? Idk if I want to play a magus. Any other suggestions?

Talking about melee classes, you have plenty of possibilities.

I'd probably go with a fighter, as already suggested, mostly because of the extra hit chance.

Some extra info may help here:

Ancestry?
Weapon?
Stats ( dex or str based? )?
Want to multiclass or not?


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You'd probably be well-served with something melee, yes, and you don't want anything that's *too* complicated. Still, there's a bunch of options out there for you.

- Fighter: Well-beloved of white-room theorists everywhere. Simplest and most straightforward theming. Also has the least utility of any class, to balance out the combat advantages. This is the classic "does one thing and does it very well" class, where the "one thing" is "stab them until they die".

- Barbarian: Big, beefy rager. Doesn't hit quite as often as the fighter (because no one hits as often as the fighter) but makes up for it by hitting harder. The way you can tell if you ought to play a barbarian is you go to https://2e.aonprd.com/Instincts.aspx, you look down the list of instincts, and if any of them look *really awesome*, then seriously consider playing that. Worth noting that if you take the right feats, the Animal Instinct can eventually turn all the way into a beast when raging, the Dragon Instinct can turn all the way into a dragon, and the Giant Instinct can get very large indeed. Spirit Instinct gets some cool semi-magical stuff about spirits helping you out. The Superstition Instinct is a bit of a trap, though, and should be avoided. If you look at Rage and the instinct list and Big Numbers Loud Noises and you don't think it's awesome, then Barbarian is not for you.

- Ranger: Ranger can be cool, if you know what you're doing, but it's kind of all over the place. Want to be a trapmaster? Want to fight alongside your animal companion? Want to use a bow? Want to be a murderblender that fights with two weapons? The ranger can do any one of those things, and maybe any two, but you kind of have to pick and choose. Still... thematically, this is basically the same "Aragorn: the class" that all rangers are everywhere, and you already know if that excites you. If it does't, pick another.

- Rogue: You've got a champion out there, so you've got a designated flanking buddy, which means that rogue is a go. It's got the same sneaky stabbing themes that rogues always have. It's the other side of the spectrum from fighter as far as utility - rogue has a bunch of extra skills and out-of-combat utility, but loses a bit off the combat edge to pay for that. You're also going to have to pay a bit more attention to tactics and positioning than you might with some other classes. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you.

- Monk: Do you like doing Lots Of Things on your turn? The monk will let you do Lots of Things. Very high mobility, and great at getting into the backline and making enemy casters very sad. If the idea of bouncing all over the battlefield isn't of interest, though, then this is probably not for you. "High-mobility striker" isn't the only think that monks can do, but everything else is various forms of weird build or is setting up for combo moves with kinds of party members that you don't seem to have. Regardless, best left for later.

I'd say that inventor, swashbuckler, and thaumaturge are all potentially viable melee as well, but they're a bit more complicated to play properly. I *might* have pulled the thaumaturge out anyway, for various reasons, but one of the things that the thaum is really good at is running both lores and charisma skills at the same time... and you're in a party with both an Investigator and a Sorceror who "solves all the charisma-based stuff". So maybe not so much, there.

The magus and the Summoner are both capable of offering your champion a flanking buddy in one form or another while also having spells to throw around (if you like having spells to throw around) but I'd count both of them in the "complicated enough that it's probably best to leave them for later" pile as well.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Was gonna plug my class selection guide

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs43e0g?Captain-Morgans-Class-Selection-Guide

But Sanity actually did a really good job of breaking down your options already. I'll add that barbarians love a champion dance partner. The AC penalty means they get hit more which gives the champ lots of trigger opportunitie, and the barbarian will love the damage resistance. Plus if you're worried about the champion hitting harder than you, then worry no more.

I'll also note party temperament should be considered. Do y'all want to kick down the door every time, or start using trickery You're lacking arcane or occult casting, which is super good for trickery but your group may not make room for that.


Sanityfaerie wrote:

You'd probably be well-served with something melee, yes, and you don't want anything that's *too* complicated. Still, there's a bunch of options out there for you.

- Fighter: Well-beloved of white-room theorists everywhere. Simplest and most straightforward theming. Also has the least utility of any class, to balance out the combat advantages. This is the classic "does one thing and does it very well" class, where the "one thing" is "stab them until they die".

- Barbarian: Big, beefy rager. Doesn't hit quite as often as the fighter (because no one hits as often as the fighter) but makes up for it by hitting harder. The way you can tell if you ought to play a barbarian is you go to https://2e.aonprd.com/Instincts.aspx, you look down the list of instincts, and if any of them look *really awesome*, then seriously consider playing that. Worth noting that if you take the right feats, the Animal Instinct can eventually turn all the way into a beast when raging, the Dragon Instinct can turn all the way into a dragon, and the Giant Instinct can get very large indeed. Spirit Instinct gets some cool semi-magical stuff about spirits helping you out. The Superstition Instinct is a bit of a trap, though, and should be avoided. If you look at Rage and the instinct list and Big Numbers Loud Noises and you don't think it's awesome, then Barbarian is not for you.

- Ranger: Ranger can be cool, if you know what you're doing, but it's kind of all over the place. Want to be a trapmaster? Want to fight alongside your animal companion? Want to use a bow? Want to be a murderblender that fights with two weapons? The ranger can do any one of those things, and maybe any two, but you kind of have to pick and choose. Still... thematically, this is basically the same "Aragorn: the class" that all rangers are everywhere, and you already know if that excites you. If it does't, pick another.

- Rogue: You've got a champion out there, so you've got a designated flanking buddy, which means that...

That is super helpful! Thanks! After looking a bit more at the Rouge, I am pretty intrigued by it. Damage and out of combat utility? Hell yeah. But I also took a look at the archetypes and I have to say, they look very cool. Would you recommend taking an archetype for a new player? Or should I just go pure Rogue? Which archetypes are cool for Rogues? I found bastion to look pretty sick, but I guess that archetype is better for a Fighter?


Lorkan wrote:
That is super helpful! Thanks! After looking a bit more at the Rouge, I am pretty intrigued by it. Damage and out of combat utility? Hell yeah. But I also took a look at the archetypes and I have to say, they look very cool. Would you recommend taking an archetype for a new player? Or should I just go pure Rogue? Which archetypes are cool for Rogues? I found bastion to look pretty sick, but I guess that archetype is better for a Fighter?

In general, I'd say to skip the archetypes at first. Basically, archetypes are useful in the following scenarios:

1 - You are playing Free Archetype, and you have feats to spend there that just won't spend anywhere else.

2 - You have a particular concept for your character, and the archetype is a big part of making that happen.

3 - You have a fair bit of system mastery, and you can pick and choose between the various archetypes to find the ones that actually fit your build really well.

4 - You look at your available in-class options for your next class feat, and you really don't want *any* of them.

It doesn't sound to me like any of those are accurate for you at the moment.

Now, you *could* change that. Like, if you're super-excited about this, and want some way to pour effort and time into it, you could read through and internalize the archetypes list in the Archives of Nethys, and also learn the Rogue feat list cold and get yourself up to the kind of system mastery that would make #3 true... or just read until you get super-excited by one of them and effectively make #2 true. Basically, though, if none of those are not true, I'd say it's probably not worth it. By default, archetypes are interesting and flavorful and weaker than spending the feats on your own in-class stuff. It's possible to take picks that will make you stronger overall, but you have to know what you're doing, and even then the gains are not huge.

Liberty's Edge

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Just noting that 2 Champions in a party (at least one a Paladin) is pretty sick. 2 Paladins with tridents will make the GM cry.


The Raven Black wrote:
Just noting that 2 Champions in a party (at least one a Paladin) is pretty sick. 2 Paladins with tridents will make the GM cry.

Okay. I'll bite. Why tridents?

Also, that leads to an interesting question. What happens if you shield block for someone else (Shield Warden) while they're also shield blocking for themselves?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Sanityfaerie wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Just noting that 2 Champions in a party (at least one a Paladin) is pretty sick. 2 Paladins with tridents will make the GM cry.

Okay. I'll bite. Why tridents?

Also, that leads to an interesting question. What happens if you shield block for someone else (Shield Warden) while they're also shield blocking for themselves?

Thrown Weapons for ranned reprisal presumably, though in my experience champions wind up with pretty bad dexterity. I'd rather just use a reach weapon myself but this does keep a hand free for a shield. And free returning runes are nice.


The Raven Black wrote:
Just noting that 2 Champions in a party (at least one a Paladin) is pretty sick. 2 Paladins with tridents will make the GM cry.

At the end of Siege of Stone we temporarily had two champions in the party, the goblin PC liberator champion Tikti and the dwarf NPC paladin champion Colga. Colga was there to make sure the party did not steal from the dwarven reliquary overrun by gugs, but she was soon impressed by the honest heroism of the party.

Once Tikti and Colga formed a front line for the party at a bottleneck. A gug hit Colga, so Tikti reacted to reduce the damage. A gug hit Tikti, so Colga responded to reduce the damage in addition to Tikti's shield block. A gug hit Colga, so Tikti reacted again to reduce the damage. (Tikti has feats for an extra reaction for shield block and an extra reaction for champion's reaction.) It was delightful.

I will have to add a trident to upcoming treasure to see whether Tikti will claim it. She is a high-Dexterity champion but lacks a good ranged attack.


For that party composition my recommendation is a melee Damage Dealer. Basically fighters (due high hit and critical rate), barbarians, magus, dual weapon rangers, rogues, summoners and thaumaturges may fit this role.

Liberty's Edge

Fighter with Magus dedication if you like going Nova.


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If you want to do damage, not much beats the fighter. They are super boring, but very powerful defensively and offensively. I'm playing a fighter champion MC right now, he is easily the most powerful damage dealing character in the group. All he does is swing his maul and destroy things. No real tactical work or focus spells or anything of the kind. Just wear heavy armor, swing the maul, and use base level magic items. Rely on AoOs after the maul drops things prone. I've reached the point of boredom, but the class is highly effective. And would mix in that group as a big damage hammer very well.

Rogue is pretty good in a group with a champion. Flanking sets up well. You can do a lot of damage and not be as boring as the fighter, though you might step on the Investigator's shoes.

Magus might be fun in that group. They hit pretty hard. And with the champion drawing the aggro, you can move in and slam down hard.

Barbarian might be good too. Just build for pure damage and let the champion control the field with their reaction.

You definitely want some kind of melee so the champion can maximize their reaction.


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Fighter doesn't have to be as bland as some may unintentionally make them sound. They don't have to be one-trick ponies! Pick a weapon or two you like with useful traits- say, a polearm with Reach and Trip. Take all the feats that get the most out of these, like Lunge and Assurance: Athletics. You'll be surprised how much utility you'll get at range, Tripping with your 3rd action, flanking with the champion for big damage- just have back up weapons/tricks in case something gets broken or doesn't work with an enemy type you weren't expecting!


I'd probably go with a summoner then.

- 4 actions rather than 3 ( as well as a double character ) is a lot of fun.

- Your eidolon will provide the ally benefit to your champion, while your summoner will be able to stay safe in the back, supporting or blasting depends the situation.

- 2 exploration activities ( or more, depends skill/ancestry/class feats ), allowing the party to get more benefits.

- Properly built eidolon.

One issue with the summoner in this 2e is that their feats are too good not to be taken, resulting in big issues when it comes down to sacrifice class feats to get a dedication/archetype. Playing with FA will drastically solve this problem, allowing the player to pick either eidolons/summoner feats while being able to invest in archetypes/dedications.

- Different stats ( you can build your eidolon as a combatant, in terms of stats, while you can build your summoner to be a spellcaster, master of social encounters or any other way you want.

- At some point you'll have a wonderful flying mount. Being able to get a huge dragon you can freely ride in the blue skyes is priceless imo.

- all 4 traditions available, resulting in a huge choice in terms of gameplay.

- Good focus spells ( as well as being able to hit refocus x2 and x3 ) and effortless concentration ( lvl 16 ).

As for the free archetype, you can pick whatever you want, depends what you want to enhance:

- Extra spells
- Extra skills
- Specific Perks

Your character can be everything depends what you want them to be.
While all characters have infinite possibilities in terms of customization, the summoner goes far beyond!


Hey, thanks so much for all the replies guys! I decided to go with a ruffian Rogue. I have some cool utility and skills without stepping on the Investigators toes too much. Any suggestions on a background? I am struggling a bit with the backstory, soI figured I start with a background. Any recommendations on which backgrounds are good for a STR Rogue?

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