Re: Is there a way in the Pathfinder game to supress or cut off someone from their magic?

[ElyasRavenwood]

Often in fantasy books such as the Wheel of Time series, and Fantasy TV series such as Legends of the Seeker, they have ways of either stealing or cutting someone off from their magic. In the Wheel of time they referred to Severing and Gentling. In Legends of the Seeker they had a magical Item (Artifact) called quilion which would absorb and store a wizard's magic.

In the Pathfinder game is there a way to do this?

Thanks

[Shin Bilirubin]

I couldn't find anything that specifically targets spellcasting abilities, though there are some abilities that remove memorised spells or slots temporarily. I did find this, however:

d20pfsrd.com Mage's Disjunction wrote:

If an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities.

[MurphysParadox]

Antimagic fields will do it. Druids in metal armor cannot use spells (a GM friend liked to capture my druid and lock him into a breastplate). A spell caster who has been gagged is also quite limited in available spell options (unless they have taken Silent Spell metamagic).

But there's no specific way as common as severing/gentling in pathfinder. The antimagic field is your best bet and those are not cheap or easy to employ.

[Elosandi]

Nothing that's incurable other than the above mentioned disjunction vs artifacts, but that's more like burning out than severing.

It's...probably a good thing honestly. In a system where even death has a cure, something like that would feel really out of place.

Baleful Polymorph requires a will save or lose all supernatural and spellcasting abilities, and that's of permanent duration, but like a lot of other things, it can be cured by a dispel magic.

[Alleran]

I normally update/transfer the 3.5e spell Laeral's Crowning Touch (from the Waterdeep book) across to Pathfinder for things like this.

When successfully cast, the target takes negative levels equal to the level of the spell being cast each time he casts it. No saving throw, and it's cumulative for each spell cast. You need either a wish or a very lucky break enchantment to crack it. It only lasts for a year and a day, so it isn't permanent, sadly. I suppose you could allow permanency to work on it. Maybe.

[Claxon]

Teleport them to a plane of dead magic. They can get in, but they can never leave.

Really though, denying a full caster their magic is kinda awful. If that happened to a character I was playing, and it lasted for longer than "Let me get out of this antimagic field" I would walk away from the table. A wizard without spells is about as scary as a level 1 commoner.

[Turin the Mad]

Maybe ... but then, a high level Wizard that dabbled in using something like an elven curve blade (for his hand of the apprentice "propeller blade of death") is as formidable as at least ... well, ok, a Commoner. But a really smart Commoner! ;)

[master_marshmallow]

You could take away their bonded object (for wizards) or their familiar and use the 3.5 rules where they get totally screwed if they lose it.

[wraithstrike]

I think one of the outsider types interferes with a divine caster's connection to his deity.

[Are]

If you're willing to do some conversion work (and you can find the book), the D20 system Wheel of Time RPG includes the "Sever" weave; it shouldn't be overly hard to convert that into a spell, since the weaves use similar rules as spells.

[Tempestorm]

Well, there is Feeblemind... seems pretty much like a severing, gentling, tranquiling, etc. to me.

There are also diseases, spell blights, that can make casting, if not impossible, very difficult.

[Zog of Deadwood]

For what purpose?

If, as a GM, you are looking for a way to challenge the spellcasting PCs, that is different than rationalizing a plot point in which an NPC has lost magic (in which case you don't have to worry about things like fairness or balance).

If you are looking for something a PC can do to an NPC, several of the above options (e.g., Baleful Polymorph, Feeblemind, transfer to dead magic demiplane) might fit the bill. Of course, there are options such as tongue stapling that will work if the caster doesn't have the Silent Spell feat, but that would usually be effective in the long term only if you could safely assume the caster in question would never have the opportunity to gain another feat.

In the short term, the easiest way to cut a prepared arcane caster off from magic is simply to take their spellbook. It is amazing how many casters don't have backups, and in some cases those could be taken too.

[Ruggs]

Perhaps "for what purpose" is a good place to start. That is, severing someone's magic can be a strong story element, if used well.

I've always had an idea for crafting a version of the antimagic field (or effect) that worked by degrees. That is, it might begin by cutting off the highest levels, then work its way down. That way, PCs might gain a feeling of increased "oppression" by whatever force is causing the effect.

Played well, this could also create a sense of urgency or alarm.

Just me rambling a little, here. I've always liked the idea of an "incremental" antimagic effect because it's such a good story tool. Too, as a DM I wouldn't feel as bad leaving some parts of it in effect a little longer--as it's only a partial hamper, but still something the PCs will want to get rid of.

[Artanthos]

Remove the wizards fingers, tongue and eyes.

It will be a long time before he memorizes any new spells and unlikely he'll be able use many of his currently memorized spells.

[Claxon]

Artanthos wrote:

Remove the wizards fingers, tongue and eyes.

It will be a long time before he memorizes any new spells and unlikely he'll be able use many of his currently memorized spells.

At low levels yes, at high levels his friends ask, "Where is the cleric who can cast regeneration?"

[Kthulhu]

Claxon wrote:

Artanthos wrote:

Remove the wizards fingers, tongue and eyes.

It will be a long time before he memorizes any new spells and unlikely he'll be able use many of his currently memorized spells.

At low levels yes, at high levels his friends ask, "Where is the cleric who can cast regeneration?"

Unfortunately, he's had his fingers, tongue, and eyes removed.

[Turin the Mad]

Well, if the Wizard was so maimed at high levels, there's a good chance that PC is the sole survivor ...

[Artanthos]

At high level, a well prepared wizard can only really be stopped with Trap the Soul.

Between demi-planes, clones, contingency and Astral Projection not much else will do more than inconvenience him.

[Kthulhu]

Artanthos wrote:

At high level, a well prepared wizard can only really be stopped with Trap the Soul.

Between demi-planes, clones, contingency and Astral Projection not much else will do more than inconvenience him.

Or an angry barbarian with a flying mount. That will put quite a cramp in his day. And an end to his life.

[Artanthos]

Nah.

All you would manage is to pop his astral projection.

[Turin the Mad]

I do hope that particular Wizard is dripping with all those costly material components ... he'll run out eventually. ;)

[Zog of Deadwood]

Artanthos wrote:

Nah.

All you would manage is to pop his astral projection.

Astral Projection IS a good protection, but it is important to remember the the wizard employing it is always dependent to some degree on chance or the kindness of the GM. The silver cord is a weakness that is relatively easy to exploit if one knows how. Many caster PCs, NPCs, and powerful monsters have the ability to detect those cords at a glance.

[Kthulhu]

Also, instead of cutting off fingers, tongues, and eyes, there's always the time-honored tradition of cutting off their head.

[Claxon]

Kthulhu wrote:

Also, instead of cutting off fingers, tongues, and eyes, there's always the time-honored tradition of cutting off their head.

Yeah, if you have the time and capability to remove the caster's finger, tongue, and eyes then you can probably just kill him. If you really want to be a jerk then you just capture his soul at death.

[Lincoln Hills]

Well, let's see. You could lay a mark of justice, lesser geas and geas on the character - all with the instruction "don't cast any spells" - and see if they're willing to risk the immediate multiple penalties for doing so. The 8th-level wizard spell binding has at least one option that reduces the character to a powerless head in a jar. Applying permanent ability drain to the caster's stat until it drops to 9 or lower would do it. They haven't converted it to Pathfinder as far as I know, but the old Psionics Handbook had varieties of shackles that would restrict the wearers to low-level effects or (for the most powerful version) prevent all manifestation. And technically, if you combine sovereign glue and ring gates inventively, you could disable a spellcaster by holding their head captive somewhere far away from their body... Oh, and there's using miracle and hoping your deity will back you up with a good old-fashioned intervention.

But as far as effects designed to forever remove a character's ability to employ magic, the only one I can think of has already been cited - namely, the unwholesome side effects of aiming Mordenkainen's - whoops, excuse me - mage's disjunction at a major artifact. I suspect that not building this sort of permanent power loss into the game was a deliberate choice. If you introduce something into your campaign with this ability, be kind enough to warn the PCs ahead of time that the possibility exists.

[Queen Moragan]

How about Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Sandman bard can steal some spells...

[Odraude]

Cast insanity but instead of making them confused, give them amnesia.

[Howie23]

master_marshmallow wrote:

You could take away their bonded object (for wizards) or their familiar and use the 3.5 rules where they get totally screwed if they lose it.

What 3.5 rules are those? The standard penalty for a familiar dismissal or death in 3.5 is XP loss.

[Howie23]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Often in fantasy books such as the Wheel of Time series, and Fantasy TV series such as Legends of the Seeker, they have ways of either stealing or cutting someone off from their magic. In the Wheel of time they referred to Severing and Gentling. In Legends of the Seeker they had a magical Item (Artifact) called quilion which would absorb and store a wizard's magic.

In the Pathfinder game is there a way to do this?

Thanks

Sure. Pathfinder makes use of the Open Game License, which basically allows anyone write game rules that add to the game system. Write something that does what you want.

[Kthulhu]

Howie23 wrote:

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Often in fantasy books such as the Wheel of Time series, and Fantasy TV series such as Legends of the Seeker, they have ways of either stealing or cutting someone off from their magic. In the Wheel of time they referred to Severing and Gentling. In Legends of the Seeker they had a magical Item (Artifact) called quilion which would absorb and store a wizard's magic.

In the Pathfinder game is there a way to do this?

Thanks

Sure. Pathfinder makes use of the Open Game License, which basically allows anyone write game rules that add to the game system. Write something that does what you want.

The OGL is really only necessary for this if you intend on publishing said work. For use in you own game, it doesn't matter if the system you are using makes use of the OGL.

[Howie23]

Kthulhu wrote:

Howie23 wrote:

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Often in fantasy books such as the Wheel of Time series, and Fantasy TV series such as Legends of the Seeker, they have ways of either stealing or cutting someone off from their magic. In the Wheel of time they referred to Severing and Gentling. In Legends of the Seeker they had a magical Item (Artifact) called quilion which would absorb and store a wizard's magic.

In the Pathfinder game is there a way to do this?

Thanks

Sure. Pathfinder makes use of the Open Game License, which basically allows anyone write game rules that add to the game system. Write something that does what you want.

The OGL is really only necessary for this if you intend on publishing said work. For use in you own game, it doesn't matter if the system you are using makes use of the OGL.

True. But this also gives a clean way to get someone else to provide the rules for someone who isn't up to doing it themselves. And, the concept of the OGL overall is a general reminder that no one is limited to what someone else has written as rules for. A campaign may make limits, but the game does not.

[Glutton]

Spellblights?

[ArgentumLupus]

Curse works under specific circumstances. Want a prison for spellcasters that prevents their casting but stops if they are let free? Curse each inmate within the prison. As a gm it gives an awesome jailbreak scene and as a local lord it gives you a repository of spellcasters to uutilize in exchange for their freedom.

[Turin the Mad]

I prefer a disjunction promptly followed by a quickened feeblemind - the feeblemind is a Spell Perfection spell. ;)