Archane's page

This is what I needed to hear. It's just good to hear thank you Paizo. I was so worried that it would cause real damage with this... stuff.

Archane wrote:

It was just a really funny idea to me... but what if a Magus used the feat Raise a Tome ... As a shield and then have an enemy break the tome. It would curse them right?

It is an amusing idea. I don't think I would go for it as a general rule. Too much opportunity for abuse.

Same as shenanigans with Glyph of Warding. No, you can't strap a leather sack warded with Glyph of Warding onto your shield and force an enemy to take the results of the Glyph when you shield block with it.

True, but this is tied to the book when it's destroyed. It's an artifact so not re-creatable. I was just thinking it was a fun way to destroy the evil artifact

Hmm, I don't know about that, it's not a guarantee that I'm holding up the book to be destroyed. I'm using it to give me the AC bonus. I'm not holding any ill will to my book. I don't know the damage they roll before I say shield block. I try and protect my shields to repair them later.

So... I'm playing through Abomination Vault and we recently picked up the Magical Artifact The Whispering Reed right here.

The important thing is the destruction part.

It was just a really funny idea to me... but what if a Magus used the feat Raise a Tome-

You raise up the book you're holding and flip it open to defend yourself and expedite your studies. The book remains raised until the start of your next turn. While you have a book raised, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus to AC and a +1 circumstance bonus to Recall Knowledge to identify creatures using a skill related to the subject of the book (Arcana if you're using your spellbook). This bonus is in addition to any item bonus the book normally gives to the check.

If you have Shield Block, you can use the tome for that feat (Hardness 3, HP 12, BT 6) as though it were a shield. Whenever you use an ability that allows you to Raise a Shield, such as Emergency Targe, you can Raise a Tome instead, changing any requirements that normally require a shield to apply to your book.

As a shield and then have an enemy break the tome. It would curse them right?

thanks a lot for this

Bleh way to cut my own post off at the news. Missed the text below about Lone witness when re-reading and forget to put Rovaug as his god in the hero lab which allows her to use Greataxe. Shoot me.

Still the HP is still off.

I do prep work and figure out stuff before hand like to further balance out encounters so there not a joke. Like the one time I redid a guy all about the fear in a module when the party was rocking two Paladins. I mean he was the boss of the module if he was a lacky I would've left him be, but I digress.

I was looking at Kakishari. However a lot doesn't click with me for him. Just an example that made me raise an eyebrow. These are the stats listed

AC 27, touch 14, flat-footed 26 (+9 armor, +3 deflection,
+1 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 179 (13d8+117)
Fort +17, Ref +12, Will +17

However these are the stats if he doesn't have a chance to buff.

If she’s caught unprepared, Kakishari’s base
statistics are AC 24, touch 11, flat-footed 23; hp 192;
Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +14;

Before Combat At the first sign of intruders, Kakishari
summons and mounts her skeletal horse before casting
see invisibility and freedom of movement. When she
believes an encounter is imminent, she casts ward of the
faithful and divine power. The Divine power would give her 13 temp HP's so I think that's what got mixed up.

What further threw me off though by all I can see and read. Inquistor and Graveknight don't have proficency with Greataxe as her main weapon unless I'm missing something on that. Also she doesn't seem to have any teamwork feats listed as an inquistor should have them.

Feats listed- Furious FocusAPG, Greater Sunder, Improved Critical
(greataxe), Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder,
Lightning Reflexes, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-
By Attack, Sundering StrikeAPG, Toughness, Vital Strike

Hmm, just thought I'd point that out. Though I do enjoy her lore.

Ummm, a couple things. First the critical thing, when you critical, you multiply most of your static damage as well, so if you're doing 1d8+6, a critical will be 2d8+12. Precision damage and things like the flaming weapon enchantment don't double, but most things like your strength modifier, power attack, weapon enhancement, and such do get multiplied.

Second, it takes a while, but a level 14 cavalier with the Mounted Skirmisher feat can make all it's attacks as long as it's charge only takes a single move. So, being hasted and using spirited charge, that's effectively 6 attacks a round with 2 handed strength and power attack damage. So high level cavaliers can be very competent. Especially when they have Chain Challenge as well. Their biggest concern is learning to cope with flying enemies.

Except that when you charge it's a full round action with only one attack. Quote of Charge. To get a full round attack on a charge you need pounce.

Charge
FAQ

Can Vital Strike be used on a charge?

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Charging is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action.

[Source]

Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge

You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent. If you move a distance equal to your speed or less, you can also draw a weapon during a charge attack if your base attack bonus is at least +1.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). You must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can't charge. If any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can't charge. Helpless creatures don't stop a charge.

If you don't have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can't charge that opponent.

You can't take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.

If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge

After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

A charging character gets a +2 bonus on combat maneuver attack rolls made to bull rush an opponent.

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.

Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and other weapons with the brace feature deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

As for the crit thing yeah I know. What I meant was that he thought it was just the dice that got multiplied like a crit modifer without the others. Don't know why he thought that, but there you go.

OKay that explains. I talked to him a bit and yeah Archery is better by a bit with that explanation.

He just thought it was multiplying like a crit where he only increased the number of dice. I didn't read those feats too careful. So it was an oversight...

Thanks for helping to clear that up for us.

Okay so in two of the three previous games I've GMed I had a Cavilar and a Ranger. The cavilar went charge and at the higher levels felt a real limition in his damage output. To the point I was trying to help him and well I gave him a feat to take in a chain so he could full round attack against one enemy. Esstienially pounce, but it did seem like a huge cap on higher level stuff and he didn't want to deversify which I think is on him, but moving on.

In the game where I had the ranger, he didn't use his companion as anything but a mount and he was ranged and he got his full attack while mounted.

Since were preparing for a new game, he cames in and askes as it just occurred to him why couldn't he do that?

So we look up the rules for it. Mounted combat reads as follows.:

With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground.

If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack. Even at your mount's full speed, you don't take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted. If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

Okay looking at all of that. He ask's a question that I couldn't really think up an answer for. Why go a Melee charge build then. You get more power early levels sure, but the downside to losing your all out attack options he thinks makes Cavilar useless for a melee build. Why not just go straight Archery full round attack every round.

So I suppose my question is ranged mounted combat just better period. Because I tend to agree with him reading it this way.

The archer doesn't suffer any penalties until he moves past the double move mark for a -4. Which is a lot, but how many mounts have like 40 move anyway making you able to kite people easily.

Hello there. I've been running a campaign and one of my players a druid is kinda sad with how his druid is pushed back when a guy who was gone came back and made a new character that took over a tanking role so he was looking at other Archtypes and didn't particular care for any of the druid Archtypes and he's been relegated to support caster but is meh about it. So he was asking for my help in making a new archtype. As in the above topic a swarm lord since he enjoys summoning swarms.

I decided to give it a shot and this is my second draft so far.

LV 1- Nature Bond- A swarmlord who chooses an animal companion must select a small creature or vermin. If choosing a domain, the swarmlord must choose from the animal and earth domains.

If animal companion is taken when they advance size category instead of becoming medium or large. They instead became a swarm of that size. -No creature they pick can be fine or diminutive in size

Wild Empathy- A swarmlord can use wild empathy with swarms as a full-round action with a +4 bonus.
Though information is still limited

Swarm Immunity- You are part of the swarm, you are at the center of it. The buzzing doesn't affect you at all. A swarmlord gains immunity to all swarm attacks. Is no longer affected by their distraction. You are also not affected by any swarms special attacks. ex. Centipede swarm poison or Monkey Swarms steal. Replaces Venom Immunity.

Wild Shape- You may only wild shape at 6th level and into a swarm of worm's or other creature that fits your desires. You gain the swarm sub type and are a swarm of small creatures. You lose access to Elemental and Plant wild shapes.

At 8th level- You may wild shape partial into a worm that walks template and gain the abilities from template with the exception of – Defensive Abilities, Special attacks, Skills, Abilities, and Feat.

Worm temp.

At 10th Level- Gain Fast Healing

At 12th Level- Gain Worm that Walks Traits and DR 2/-

At 14th Level – Immunities

At 16th Level- Discorporate and DR 3/-

At 18th Level- Squirming Embrace DR 4/-

At 20th Level- Gain any remaining aspects of worm that walks. DR 5/-

The worm that walks was my idea since it seems to fit with the idea of a swarm lord and I don't think how I set up it's power build is too OP but I might be missing it... I first had DR 5/- at level 12 but thought that was too much even if a Druid can wild shape into an elemental with DR 5/- at that level it still seemed a bit too good so this is how I balanced it out. Thoughts, suggestions, people telling me I'm making a horrible mistake by doing this. Let me know I'm open to feedback.

Thanks we were just talking about this during last session and the acting gm was throwing out ideas for roles and my brother is like. Hey you visit the board all the time. See if someone did the work already and you did. This does make combat via ship make more sense at least somewhat thank you.

Let me be clear: I agree that your GM should be more up-front with you about not liking your character, and about why he doesn't like it.

But I also think it's actually pretty obvious what his feelings are. You don't need him to say a special magic sequence of words out loud to you, and sitting around waiting for him to do so just makes you petty. You could try to be the bigger person in this situation; instead you seem wed to the idea of just being the more passive-aggressive person.

If you know that remaking your character would patch things up, then do that. If you don't care and intend to keep your character regardless of how your GM feels, then say that.

That was a slight miscommunication on my part. We all agreed to be evil, but it slide into more MQ area for most of the party. My bad on that.

My feelings specifically. I'm willing to change my character. However when else can I make an Intimdate build? Honestly it just more irks me since I don't think it's an OP build at all.

I guess that was my original mind set that if you want to see OP well I can show you when I first made that post.

I also feel it's a bad thing to do without him clearly saying it. I mean as a gm he needs to learn to make it clear and not just complain about it. Like I said he's new, if he can't even do that it will make it harder in the future when I freely offer him the chance to say I will change my character and he can't even say yes please do that. He can't even say that. That's kinda my point if just do it. Then he got his way with complaints instead of actually taking me up on my generious offer. How would other players react in the long run since some might not even give him the offer.

Are you using some of the tricks to send creatures fleeing from the fight regularly? Is the GM running intimidate properly (a -2 to certain rolls is hardly OP), or is he inadvertently making it stronger by having enemies run or surrender too easily?

Don't bring a crazy-OP character to the table to make a point. The most you should do is explain/show examples of OP builds to give context, but even that is worse than just talking it out as a group, and it probably wouldn't make him like your character any more anyway.

He doesn't complain about that at all, but yes as an AP I can do that. I demoralize to apply shaken and then I can use a touch of corruption to apply shaken again. Since fear stacks like this.

Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative.
A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes
frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened
becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is
made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

The description of stacking fear effects from the core rule book.

Of course that's only one target. I'm sure any caster can do a better control job then that.

I'm just going to toss this onto the pot - just remake your character in a way that fits in with the group.

Okay I'll say it again. My AP doesn't clash with the group, as of so far they have taken slaves, attacked Marines and slaughtered them. The only reason I put them as Moral Questionable is that sometimes the group decides to help out people too even though it seems like something a truely evil group shouldn't do.

But I'll just put that as a vote to remake the damn character. -sighs-

Nicos wrote:

I offer to remake my character if he doesn't like it, he doesn't respond. I offer to play a different character, he's like meh about it. All he says is it's overpowered and keeps complaining about it. I want to bring a character to really drive home the point that no it's not over powered.

He is being annoyingly passive-aggressive about this, but then so are you.

It really doesn't take a genius to figure out that the GM does not, in fact, like your character. I could be wrong, but it seems pretty likely that the reason is not because it's overpowered, but because you agreed to a certain set of character concepts beforehand and then went and deliberately blew off that agreement, and now you're pretending that it's his problem, not yours.

You say several times that you want your GM to "take a firm stand," but I don't really understand what that means. What is it you want him to do? Do you want him to make it clear that he's unhappy with your character? He's already done that. This "firm stand" business is just being deliberately obtuse.

When you offer to remake your character, are you making that offer in good faith? If so, then just remake your character. If you just want to keep your character and don't care what he thinks about it, then you need to tell him that, explicitly.

Constructing elaborate schemes to "teach someone a lesson" is something that only works in sitcoms and cartoons, not in real life. It is childish. It will not make your GM suddenly see things your way. It will just make you look dumb and him more upset.

Firm stance. Your character is breaking the game please do something about it. There that is it that is what I want him to say, to do, to do something like that. I am making that offer in good faith and how did I break character concept before hand. It was supposed to be an evil party! What character class is more evil then an Anti-Paladin!

So let me rephrase this... perhaps I should make a new post on the thread so people stop saying this.

-takes a deep breath-

Was about to go on a rant. Okay, my point is, that I keep trying to make I suppose is. That I'm not trying to get back at him and you know sometimes using an extreme just once is a good way to teach someone a lesson.

I just thought that might work, so here's my real question. If you guys were in this postion. What would you do about this then? Your DM is constantly complaining about your character being over powered. Should I ignore it, remake my character, or try to do something to show him it's not over powered, or other. I have tried talking to the guy several times about it, but he won't take a firm stance. He won't give an opinion other then he thinks it's over powered simply because I can use Intim. all the time. I mean maybe I'm crazy is that a valid compliant?

Okay, perhaps I should make myself a little bit more clear in this regard then. The point I'm trying to make to my GM is that I want him to take a firm stand in this. None of the other players think my AP is overpowered but the inexpericed DM keep complaining about it. He keeps nagging me about it, he keeps telling me how it's over powered. BUT HE WON'T TAKE A FIRM STAND!

I offer to remake my character if he doesn't like it, he doesn't respond. I offer to play a different character, he's like meh about it. All he says is it's overpowered and keeps complaining about it. I want to bring a character to really drive home the point that no it's not over powered. That really just having the ability to negate something so that a build works isn't over powered in my opinion.

What I'm trying to show him is that as a DM since he doesn't seem to get it. Is if there's a problem with your game, something truely game breaking in it. Then you need to step up and say something to that player besides just complain about it. That's my real reason for trying to do this... Though I was trying to get that point across by saying that perhaps it's just me and that I'm being petty because he keeps complaining about it. Maybe that's just me.

Honestly I just want to make the point once so that he gets it. I've talked to him like 3-4 times before and he just won't give me an answer. I mean I've also done other things to make it easeier for him since we have a big group, by not picking summons of any kind since that bogs combat time as well.

I mean he complains about it so much I am at the point that I just want to bring someone else to get him to be quiet about it. I hope that helps to see my point. His complaining is making it less fun to me and that's something a DM shouldn't do in my opinion. And I mean that constantly if he just did it once and put his foot down yeah it crushes the fun once for some people, but at least it's over. This just goes on and on every session and anytime we talk about it.

Once the point is made I'd want to give up the OP character.

I at least thank Ryden and My Self for some advice in this regard.

Archane wrote:

So this might be a bit petty of me, but I'm the usually GM for my group and one of my players wanted to give it a try and since I don't play that often I thought why not. So he got the Skull and Shackles module and played it and we all agreed that were were going to be a questionably moral party not straight up evil, but not good ether.

You deliberately suborned the group guidelines to create an Anti-Paladin. Anti-Paladins aren't of "questionable morality" they're the worst of the worst, because that is the classes mission statement.

And now you want to compound your malfeasance with some petty revenge and you're looking for help in this enterprise. Pray that your GM does not read these boards becaue if I were him or her, and saw this, I'd bounce...

If you read that closely I said the party. My AP is defintly the worst of the worst. Just because someone is Chaoitic evil does not mean they will not hang out with people of questionable morality. If anything they make much more easily controlable minions by bribes and plunder and such. Besides in Skull and Shackles your shanghaied.

I mean when it was decided we all thought evil party, so I went all into that but the party seemed to end up just at that questionable morality as a whole instead of straight up evil.

So this might be a bit petty of me, but I'm the usually GM for my group and one of my players wanted to give it a try and since I don't play that often I thought why not. So he got the Skull and Shackles module and played it and we all agreed that were were going to be a questionably moral party not straight up evil, but not good ether.

I however went all in playing an Anti-Paladin because hey when else are you going to get to play an Anti-Paladin like ever. Knowing that I went with a build that not a lot of people use I think, mainly because so many things can ignore it. I went with an intimidate build because an anti-paladin it's a guarantee I'm not wasting my time.

He has come to the conclusion that it is the most over powered thing ever because my aura allows me to use my feats that would be useless against these things and gives them negitives to resist it. I call BS on it since the -2 that I debuff them for never seems to harm them. So I wanted some advice on that regard so I can bring the most overpowered character that I can possible make to the table. Granted were only at level 5. I like my paladin more for the other stuff... but I feel a lesson needs to be learned or maybe I'm just cruel... most likely cruel but I still think it needs to be done.

In anycase here's what I have set up so far. Also if you can recommend an over powered anti-paladin build that is better then this. That would also be great. Oh yes he's also complaing that I'm overpowered at level 5 and only a 15 point buy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ra7tpmf85bjf05s/Fia.pdf?dl=0

Also, having someone swear at me doesn't endear me to his cause.

Who, what, where? When I said Damn question... that's swearing at you...

And just to call it out: HeroLab, while an excellent program and licensed to use Paizo's source material, is not made by Paizo.

When a conflict arises between the apparent RAW and what HeroLab allows, HeroLab is not valid evidence that the apparent RAW is incorrect.

I know that, but it still causes confusion.

Also to play Devils Advocate then. Why should I listen to you over the program that helps me create my characters quickly and efficently and seems to have all the rules down in it?

My goal with the thread was to get it in the FAQ as well, not to debate it again. Plus, it has a headstart :)

I already clicked that, but I figured a more clear thread that it needs to be FAQ rather then trying to start the debate again... which people seem to be just saying it works this way. Not that it should be FAQ which was my point but people keep saying no it works this way. Again not the point of the thread.

The point is it should be in the FAQ period. But yes I did hit the FAQ part Cheapy on your thread.

Again the point of the thread is to help point out it should be FAQ because it's just all opinions everywhere no solid evidence and again I know the author said his intent and once again he said that's his opinion and can't be taken as a ruling.

There's nothing to answer. It's an ability whose power depends on Druid level. You gain the ability at level 6. An archetype modifies the potency of the potency of the ability depending on the form you take. There's no language that changes when the ability is granted. There is no official ruling needed.

Think of it in terms of "caster level" if that helps. Your ability modifies the CL of the ability, not when you gain access to it.

Then how come it doesn't say replace. How come Hero Lab gives it to you at Level 2. How come the question keeps getting asked. Why are the devs and the orginal author in conflict. The author who says that was his intent but is just his opinion so you can't take it as an official ruling.

Hence my point that it needs to be put in the FAQ and needs a definite ruling just not opinion.

Check out this thread.

Yes I did see that thread, I've also seen threads with the orginal author of said archtype too. Again not my point. My point being it needs to be in the FAQ. So please click that thank you. Their are way too many posts about this question and while I did start looking for the answer by doing that. I found so much conflict about it that I feel it needs to be in the FAQ for an offical ruling.

No FAQs not even the OPs? That is sad, allow me to be the first:)

Yep the only question relating to any animal Shaman is about the Eagle Shaman and how you can apply the huge template to a basic eagle for that wild shape since Paizo material had nothing for it. So thank you.

I've been trying, trying for hours to go through this message board and you know what I've found that you need to put this under your FAQ with a clear ruling! Because you have author of the original archtype and other writters saying different stuff about this!

Wild Shape (Su)

At 6th level, a (insert animal type) shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a (insert animal type), she instead uses her druid level + 2.

Does this mean that an animal shaman only gets to transform at six or is it just a modifier and should be more ruled like this

Wild Shape (Su)

A wolf shaman’s wild shape ability is modified as such functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a canine, she instead uses her druid level + 2. So she gains canine wild shape at Level 2 but cannot use wild shape to transform into any other creature till 6th level.

Or should it be changed to this.

Wild Shape (Su)

At 6th level, a wolf shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a canine, she instead uses her druid level + 2.

This ability replaces Wild Shape!

I was making a shadow dancer for my group that I wanted to introduce as an ally and plot hook down the line in the pahtfinder module Kingmaker.

Anyway I have to get his fighting style down and reading all the way through and how I built him I'm wondering if this fighting style works or perhaps I'm missing something.

Before Combat- Arim always keeps himself stealthed with his rogue talent to move at full speed so unless he has to interact he will not be out of stealth. Also if he sees a group of people that seem particular capable or obvisouly using Detect Magic or other such things. He will uses his wand of Non-Detection before sneaking by them.

During Combat- If Arim is forced into combat or wishes to attack. He starts combat off in two ways. If he has 2 s round, he will start by casting allegro and expeditious retreat using his metamagic rod of swiftness, on the second round he will start his inspire courage performance if alone or his Rallying Cry with allies and cast darkness on one of his weapons and a swift action use his sipping jacket to became enlarged.

Then he throws his shadow dagger at one of his enemies causing it release a stored darkness spell inside it.

During this time he will send his shadow to hide among the enemy so it can pick up the dagger to give you a moving darkness void.

After that he will then use spring attack or shadow jump to close the distance and with his lunge ability to strike 15 feet away from them in the dark. Along with his Duegeur abilites he'll continue to use the two darkness spells to keep the enemy guessing as he slashes at them with his reach to keep them unsure.

Morale- If he near 150 damage he'll have his shadow companion start to move away so he can shadow jump to that and heal himself up and hide. During this time he will also stop attacking and stealth in the darkness so as not to give himself away.

Summed up- I'm thinking that using the darkness like that as Bard Lv 2 spell and using his shadow companion to have an extra cloud so to speak. I can move in, slash at someone with a 15 foot range and thanks to the HIPS, hide in plain sight right again with a new stealth check.

Thus effectily blinding most teams and him being a Fetchling he'll keep his 50% concealment.

Asking because I came to the thought... this is rather powerful sounding, perhaps too much. Perhaps I should make a character or a build around doing that.

Hmm, my search before posting that didn't hit that... Must have missed it. Hmm...Thanks

Kingmaker module six Sound of a Thousand Screams. One of the encounters in the module.

Part D. The Nightmare Spire pg 28-29

He's stat's are in the link provided above but if you want to look right at the source go ahead. I welcome any help.

Someone objected to the word (and concept) of "brothel" appearing in our core rulebooks, so it was changed to "dance hall."

I thought it was something like that. -sighs-

Well glad to know someone else agrees on the trade route. Just want to hear a confirmation were not all in group think in our game when we read over the rules you know.

I've seen Moulin Rogue I am one of the people who wonders why people like it so much.

I suppose my point is why not keep it the same, why change it like that to only cause confusion.

Still not seeing anything about the trade routes though.

Archane wrote:

... Why would a paizo module though use a third party feat to design their creature. I mean I was aware of that, but I thought; that can't be it cause it's a third party feat. I mean their not official feats one can use without GM's permission are they?

Are you saying that Paizo can't use third-party material designed for use with Paizo's game?

I guess we should all throw our copies of the Tome of Horrors, Complete and Kobold Quarterly in the trash...

What I'm saying is it's odd they would use such a feat in extra material, without writting out what it does. They did use the Tome of Horror extras monsters in earlier modules and did write out any abilities that didn't show up in the bestiary or other core books. Then to give him a feat as a Defensive ablity that he doesn't even qualify for in the prerequisites. That's what I find odd.

It's also why I think it has to be something else.

So... a dance Hall = Brothel... an estblishment for dancing, drinking, carousing, and holding celberations = A place to pay for companionship of any sort.

I'm not quite getting the connection to be honest and how a black market gives on a discount on a Dance House...I mean at best that sounds like a lover lane for middle age times or the current era of Golarion, but meh...

Another thing I found that's an error in Ultimate Campaign was in the Kingdom Making section.

Two things. Under Black Market Discount- It mentions brothel for a discount. Yet their is no brothel building. Now I know their is one in the original King Maker book but none here. Also their are events that mention brothels like

Drug Den- For every type of buildings brothels included adds to the check.

Then we have the Trade Route Optional Rules for Kingdoms which is a pain in the ass to figure out but here's my problem.

DC= Control DC + your settlements Corruption+ the RM+ the LM - Your settlements Productivty.

So we have TRL (trade route length) divide it by 10 to get RM (route Modifier.

Then we subtract the TRL from your Kingdom Size to get LM (length modifier)

So lets do some math lets see say this formula.

DC= 65 + 5+ the RM+ the LM - 5 (Kingdom Size is 60)

But lets use two different length. Lets have a TRL of 50 and 5.

80= 65 + 5+ the 5+ the 10- 5 (TRL 50)

121= 65 + 5+ the 1+ the 55- 5 (TRL 5)

And I didn't even get into the theory crafting for faster hexs and what not since it really doesn't matter with all things taken equal. It's easier to do a Trade Route 50 hexs away aka about 600 miles then the 60 miles away. Even though it says under the rules that shorter routes are easier. Then again maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I've read it over 3 times along with friends and we all seem to come to that conclusion.

... Why would a paizo module though use a third party feat to design their creature. I mean I was aware of that, but I thought; that can't be it cause it's a third party feat. I mean their not official feats one can use without GM's permission are they?

And besides the nightmare Rook doesn't qualify for that feat. He has no ranks in bluff.

Thanks though.

Okay I have this creature in the next Module. Seems rather cool with what he does, besides his combat block, but their's one defensive ability they put on him that I can not find anywhere in my Bestiary books or any of my other player hand books.

Here he is.

Nightmare Rook.

And the ability is feign death as is implied by the title. However as I said before. I can't find it in any of my books. I get that you know he's Feigning Death which means he's going to pretend to die, but how does it work. Checks, can my PC's see through it, is an illusionary spell he can cast on them. Etc, etc.

-clicks tongue-

Well... I just learned something new. Kinda seems stupid, I always just read primary natural attacks = main hand and then the other attacks are secondary...Seems right to me, but hey, who am I to argue with the designers of the game...

If he is not using any manufactured weapons, he has no reason to be taking TWF, as TWF has nothing to do with natural attacks. If you have 3 primary attacks, all 3 attacks hit at your full bonus, there is no subtraction from it.

Why I pointed out Multi-Attack. Multi-Attack is still needed for natural attacks otherwise you suffer the penalties. As I said before. Direct copy from the PDF

This creature is particularly skilled at making attacks with its natural weapons.

Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.

Benefit: The creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

You still take penalties when making more then one natural attack. Just not as big with TWF. I was merely laying out all the options for it and that he should understand that.

As for the five foot step. I apoligize. I did mean move back a full 30 feet or so then shoot him with a crossbow. If the enemy doesn't have more then one attack at this point then he has no reason to only take a five foot step. The problem of course is the Attack of Oppiritny, but he's still getting one less attack then.

Honestly though if you find him just Stomping your encounters with his set-up their are a few monsters that will make him cry at the proper CR. Let's see. We could have him encounter this.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/oozes/ooze-gray

It's acid power would deal 1d6 acid damage to him unless he makes a reflex save and he would have to do that on every attack.

Also anything with DR might help like a few low level Werewolves.

Also a grappling monster might be good also. Like a Shambling Mound.

Just a few suggestions.

A barbarian depending on Rage Powers can get more natural attacks. I also believe their is a half-orc feat that gets them the bite. Though I thought it was tusks if memory severed right might be ether.

In any case I wanted to bring this up because I didn't see if anyone asked. Does he have Multiattack, or two weapon fighting?

Table: Two-Weapon Fighting Penalties
Circumstances Primary Hand Off Hand
Normal penalties –6 –10
Off-hand weapon is light –4 –8
Two-Weapon Fighting feat –4 –4
Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat –2 –2

Natural attacks are considered Light, but even so if he's only Lv 3 with 18 str that means his attacks should be. +3 to each attack to hit. Also unless he has Double Slice he doesn't add his strength to attacks with his off hand.

Now the feat Multi-attack would work.

Multiattack (Monster)

This creature is particularly skilled at making attacks with its natural weapons.

Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.

Benefit: The creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

Also this is something some new players miss so sometimes it's not brought up. To get multiple attacks with TWF or Multi-attack or with the +6/+1 AB chart that is a full round attack. Meaning one can't charge and get those three attacks out from them. I know their are ways around that, but I'm pretty sure Barbians don't have any pounce like rage powers.

So if you want to keep him from getting more then one attack off. After he Charges you can have the enemy five foot step away and shoot a crossbow bolt at him or something.

... What do you mean. Discoveries are like Rogue Talents in a sense just part of the class. You could then take a feat to augment it. I mean as long as you quality you can take the feat to use your muiltiple arms.

I have a dawnflower Deverish Bard who gives up their Bardic Knowledge Skill and I wanted to later take Pathfinder Chronicler to get it back. The problem is in Hero Lab it still stacks the Bard Levels with the Pathfinder Chronicler... I'm pretty sure that shouldn't work that way if I'm using an Archtype that gets rid of it.

I also couldn't find a ruling that ether supports or denies that. So I'm wondering if I should contact the company that makes it to say it's a slight bug or hic-up or have I stumbled onto something kinda cool.

I really don't think so but hey other opinions are always good to hear.

Okay so Inspire Courage says

At 5th level, and every six bard levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +4 at 17th level. Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability. inspire courage can use audible or visual components. The bard must choose which component to use when starting his performance.

Then we have some races with alt Skill bonus that read like this

Bard Choose one bardic performance; treat the bard as +1/2 level higher when determining the effects of that performance.

Now I know it says maxium but it seems more like because of the level cap of the phrasing... or perhaps I'm just trying to get around it in my own head. Since I know you can get past the +4 with Dervish of Dawn and Dervish Dancer. So for example lets say I took 12 levels of that and applied it to my bard. So that when he hits level 17 would it became a +5.

This is way late to the party but I disagree. Their is a feat that lets you use all those arms.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/multiweapon-fighting-combat

I'm having a debate with a fellow GM over an issue that arose when he invited me to his game. I decided to go with this build that I've been wanting to do for a bard and got his okay, but he's backing up a bit on it as we've both run into an issue he I think it taking the wrong way or maybe I am. I'm asking your guys opinion an official response would be great.

I wanted to make a Bard, a Dervish of Dawn Bard so I could get the feat Dervish Dance and the other backround story that goes along with it. I also thought it would be good considering if I take a single level of Magus to grab Spell Combat. My idea is that spell combat doesn't say anything about offensive spells or the like so I could use that to get my buff spells and few offensive spells out their faster.

The issue were running into though is that in the magus spell combat it says and I copy and paste here.

At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast.

The feat down below says- You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat

He is convinced that the magic spell I'm holding in my hand should count as a weapon and make the feat invalid when I use spell combat. Perhaps were both missing something obvious but I do have to emphasize this is about Spell combat and not spell strike. Anyway any help you guys can offer is appreciated.