Unchained Monk VMC Barbarian works a little too well together.


Advice


This is another did I miss a pitfall question, but I have been looking at a n Unchained Monk VMC Barbarian, and the synergy is almost too good. Am I missing any positives or negatives?

Lets look at the most basic issue with VMC:

It uses up 5 feats.
- UnMonk isn't exactly feat starved.
- 11 feats remain after the 5 lost (12 if you go human)
- The 5 abilities gained from Barbarian are feats that almost any unchained monk would take
- a number of rounds per day equal to your con + level add 4 to str and con
- cannot be caught flat footed
- rage power
- DR3/-
- increase first perk to 6 for str and con

Going further into positive things now:

1) By Raging, you help stop some of the MAD hemorrhaging of the UnMonk. You can devote less to STR which means
2) You can devote more to WIS which you need for Ki points
3) Raging is a free action, so there is no worry about tying up the Un Monk swift action economy top fit in this new option
4) By gaining Uncanny Dodge, suddenly your AC boost are good in almost any situation
5) Many Rage powers works ridiculously well. I for one like the idea of using the Lesser Celestial Totem power to make the wholeness of body ki power more reasonable (1d8 + Character Level + Monk Level) while raging. 2 ki to heal 1d8 +20 at level 10 is nothing to sneeze at.
6) The qinggong ki power restoration removes fatigue for 2 ki. Rage cycling at level 8
7) Everyone loves DR.
8) Furious AoMF

A few negatives I see :

1) The extra rage feat would almost be a requirement
2) Even with more focus on Wis, Ki pool is still going to be something of an issue

Neither Good nor bad :

1) Ring of Ki Mastery makes this all work even better


Almost all of these points apply to the fighter as well.


Rub-Eta wrote:
Almost all of these points apply to the fighter as well.

Are you saying that UnMonk VMC fighter shares most of the same advantages?

Grand Lodge

Fighter VMC barbarian I assume.


Well, I would say that it doesn't play quite as beautifully with Fighter, but yes it does help them quite a bit too, and fighters have feats and feats and feats to spare.


Seems fine to me.


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It's certainly a nice option, but it's far from overwhelming.
When it comes to damage, Rage is nice, but the other options (Ascetic Style, Dragon Style, Jabbing Style, or even not using a style chain at all) catch up quick.
When you pick Reckless Abandon, the damage is very good, but that's at a hefty AC penalty.

Ageless_Bum wrote:

- UnMonk isn't exactly feat starved.

- 11 feats remain after the 5 lost (12 if you go human)

Since Monk generally want to build up the style path, and the bonus feat don't really help, Monk doesn't exactly have feats in abundance at lower levels. Most of these 11 feats are either from a crappy list, or to late to really matter.

Ageless_Bum wrote:
6) The qinggong ki power restoration removes fatigue for 2 ki. Rage cycling at level 8

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

What works "a little too well together" is unMonk VMC Magus: Ki Leech Qinggong Power + Ki Arcana + Accurate Strike = always hitting touch AC.


Oof. "Flurry of Misses" my porcine butt.


Derklord wrote:

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

Maybe im off but my understanding is unless otherwise stated spell llike abilities were standard actions.

Derklord wrote:


What works "a little too well together" is unMonk VMC Magus

Absolutely agree on this one. I made a question about that in another thread. You and I discussed arcana haste vs boots of speed in it. I was just looking at alternatives


blahpers wrote:
Oof. "Flurry of Misses" my porcine butt.

It would be a thing to see...


Ageless_Bum wrote:
Derklord wrote:

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

Maybe im off but my understanding is unless otherwise stated spell llike abilities were standard actions.

Sorry.

Quote:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.


avr wrote:
Ageless_Bum wrote:
Derklord wrote:

You can't use it in combat (three rounds cast time), so I wouldn't call it rage cycling.

Maybe im off but my understanding is unless otherwise stated spell llike abilities were standard actions.

Sorry.

Quote:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description.

Well there you go. I missed that part.


Do you not have an alignment restriction for VMC?


Some VMCs do, but strangely VMC barbarian does not have the alignment restriction.


As for as I can see the only VMC that mention alignment are:

Cleric - 1 step of diety
Monk - only matters when determine if your ki strikes are lawful
Inquisitor - 1 step of diety
Paladin - Has to follow the paladins code which requires lawful good
Cavaliers - Has to follows the chosen order edicts which may require an alignment


VMC druid has to adhere to the druid code of conduct, which prohibits changing to a non-neutral alignment.


Thanks. I am having a red letter day for overlooking parts of rules today.


Ageless_Bum wrote:
Absolutely agree on this one. I made a question about that in another thread. You and I discussed arcana haste vs boots of speed in it. I was just looking at alternatives

Looking back, you're actually the one who made me aware of it. If it hadn't been such a long time this would have been embarrassing, but man, that's been almost a year ago!


Ageless_Bum wrote:
Thanks. I am having a red letter day for overlooking parts of rules today.

I feel ya. The thread on firing +1 arrows from +1 bane bows left me dizzy for a while.

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