Bound and Determined

Point, it seemed like a form letter, and came within a minute of me sending my email, but it does have a signature block from Sara Marie, she may have just been that on the ball at the time.

Oops, I forgot to add the part to the auto response that says its an automated response!

Here's what the response looks like, it may not go out for every email we receive because I do try to add in some rules that prevent it from responding to people who are in a conversation with CS, or spammers or other people's out of the office auto responses (if you aren't careful with these things you can end up in a lovely feedback loop with other auto-responses).

Thank you for contacting Paizo Inc Customer Service.

We are currently experiencing a high volume of customer requests.

We apologize for any delays you may be experiencing with orders or customer service requests. We are working through our backlog as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If you have a critical and time sensitive issue with your order or account, we recommend calling our customer service line during business hours: (425) 250-0800 Monday-Friday 10am-5pm PST.

We appreciate your patience.
Sincerely,

Sara Marie

I've got my copy from Amazon but sadly it had a faulty binding. So I send it back for an replacement. Today I got the replacement which also had a faulty binding... :(

I've got my copy from Amazon but sadly it had a faulty binding. So I send it back for an replacement. Today I got the replacement which also had a faulty binding... :(

Same here unfortunately.

I noticed the binding issue on my copy last week, but I think I'm going to wait to ask for a replacement until the new printing is done in November . . .

Just so folks know, I have a copy of the Starfinder CRB that is not defective. So it's not all the way across the print run. Just a higher than acceptable rate of defect.

So what is the current lag time for answering e-mails about defective copies?

I can also confirm that not all copies are defective. I ordered two copies and gave one away to a friend. His copy is fine, but mine is defective.

How long should we wait from our initial email before following up if we didn't receive an auto-response? I don't want to make the backlog worse.

I've bought 4 copies, 3 of which had defective bindings. When trying to get a replacement for one of them, I went to 2 different Barnes and Noble locations and we went through 4 different copies between them and all had the defective bindings. I ended up just returning it for a refund since I don't currently need 2 copies, and I'm not optimistic that the copies they have in their warehouse are any better. Hopefully they'll mostly be out of circulation by the time I have a game to run and need more copies.

How long should we wait from our initial email before following up if we didn't receive an auto-response? I don't want to make the backlog worse.

Ask and you shall receive, I guess; got my confirmation last night.

I’m still waiting for my confirmation, but I’m in no rush. I have the hard copy if I need to use it, a hard copy printed from the pdf, and the pdf itself. I’m good until I get a replacement.

I sent out an email with attached photos on September 23 and have not received any response yet (automated or not).

Did it get lost in the Drift?

What is the consequences of not taking you up on this generous offer? Like my binding has failed as described, but will the book more or less stay together, or should I expect more book degeneration? If it is just a cosmetic thing, I'm inclined to keep it, but if it will accelerate into total book failure, then I will go get it replaced.

I sent my email to them on the 20th of September, and got a reply on the 30th of September. I can't say you'll get the same results, but be patient at least a little longer.

Yeah, it's taking a bit of time, but the'll get back to you, even if you didn't get the Auto-reply (like I didn't get that).

Well, my replacement arrived today, binding looks much better after quick flip through.

Customer service got back to me and is replacing the book with no additional cost, even though they have to ship it all the way to Germany (50+ USD shipping!)!

Outstanding service, thank you paizo!

Outstanding service, thank you paizo!

Same from me.

We appreciate your patience while we work through this! If you sent an email more than a couple of weeks ago, and you did not get an autoreply, go ahead and send another.

What is the consequences of not taking you up on this generous offer? Like my binding has failed as described, but will the book more or less stay together, or should I expect more book degeneration? If it is just a cosmetic thing, I'm inclined to keep it, but if it will accelerate into total book failure, then I will go get it replaced.

It's hard to say. The signatures are sewn together, so the book does have structure without the spine lining... but it definitely has more structure with it.

My brother's copy is beginning to show signs of the signatures separating from one another

ie when the book is lying open flat at a join between signatures, there's a slight 'gap' between the left-hand page and right-hand page.

It looks to me that it's more than a cosmetic issue and that the book is not going to hold up well to long-term use.

We appreciate your patience while we work through this! If you sent an email more than a couple of weeks ago, and you did not get an autoreply, go ahead and send another.

We've actually had to turn the auto response off sporadically to prevent it from going into infinite loops and its currently off now due to the mailing that was sent out earlier this week. Its also got a number of rules set up to try to prevent infinite loops and other annoyances so its not a guarantee for folks to always get one of the "delayed response time" auto replies.

At this time, if your email is older than Sept. 20 and you have not gotten a response/resolution from an actual customer service person, go ahead and send a follow up. My team has been doing overtime for the last couple weeks to try to help cut down on the backlog as well as triage new arrivals in the inbox. We've cut the queue in half since the beginning of September and are making really strong headway, but still have quite a few emails to address.

Thanks,
sara marie

I received my replacement today, and I'm really happy, but also getting a bit paranoid.

The yellow strip of paper? that's against the white fabric strip is letting loose at the top, how important is that strip?
Can I just put a few drops of glue in there and attempt to get it to stick to the white fabric strip?

Has anyone had any luck with repairing a defective copy? I'm thinking if you were able to slide a long and sharp blade between the fabric strip and the spine, you might be able to separate them, and then using a long-necked glue applier you could maybe squeeze some glue in between the fabric strip and the signatures, and somehow get them to reattach maybe?

Has anyone had any luck with repairing a defective copy? I'm thinking if you were able to slide a long and sharp blade between the fabric strip and the spine, you might be able to separate them, and then using a long-necked glue applier you could maybe squeeze some glue in between the fabric strip and the signatures, and somehow get them to reattach maybe?

I have a number of copies, so I didn't mind cutting the back cover completely off with a stanley knife.

Then I reglued the fabric strip to the pages using a flexible, cloth/paper glue. I left it to set for a couple of days - my theory is that the problem arose due to the cover being reapplied too soon at the factory. When I cut it open, some of the publisher's glue had 'bled' through so that the fabric strip was stuck to the spine - I think that's what caused the damage over time.

Once it was completely dry, I tried to replicate the tension on the front cover - via a bunch of short strips of tape 'crosswise' and then a long, strengthening strip to hold those together.

I've been reading it pretty extensively since (and not being gentle as I have a replacement coming) and it's holding up well. It isn't pretty if you look at the back cover map though, but the rest of the book is fine (and I figure the map on the front cover will suffice).

With regard to regluing via a long applicator, I suspect there will still be a problem. From cutting mine open, it seemed that the problem arose due to the strip sticking to the cover as well as the pages. So just replacing the glue between strip and pages won't address the core issue if the strip is still attached to the cover.

At the very least, if I were to try your method, I'd also be sure to use the knife to separate the fabric strip from the cover. It isn't supposed to be attached to the spine of the cover, just to the internal paper.

Steve, that's why I suggested

'm thinking if you were able to slide a long and sharp blade between the fabric strip and the spine, you might be able to separate them

:D

I see. I wasn’t sure if you meant separating the fabric from the pages or from the cover (in fact, I thought you meant inserting it between the pages and the fabric strip).

No I meant between the fabric strip and the outermost casing.

In case it's of use. These are my before and after photos:

How it looked after a flip through from the publisher.

My post-repairs equivalent shot.

The ugly looking back page.

Although the back page isn't pretty I am very happy to have paid that price. The spine appears very strong and I never look at that page anyhow.

So you actually cut it open, huh? I can imagine how that would make it so much easier to really get in there and do the work. I'm going to have to stew this over and consider whether I want to sunder the back spread integrity.

I would also imagine that a big sheet of contact plastic would serve the purpose better than a lot of small strips of adhesive tape. Maybe.

I would also imagine that a big sheet of contact plastic would serve the purpose better than a lot of small strips of adhesive tape. Maybe.

I’m extremely not-crafty. I had no experience, negligible skill and a lack of proper tools.

Having cut it open though, I was able to ensure the glue was evenly and thoroughly applied. Plus I could leave it ages to dry before closing it up again and risking a repeat of what I suspect the original problem was.

One reason I went with lots of little strips over one long one was I was trying to replicate the tension you see if you lie the book flat with just the cover open. It kind of pulls up the first few pages. I used the shorter strips to do the same on the back cover then held all of those down with long, vertical strips.

As far as repairs go I took a somewhat different tact. After doing some rebinding research I took one of my wife's long metal knitting needles along with a long artist brush and applied / repainted a healthy amount of acid free book binding glue between the fabric spine and the page block. then after protecting the edges with cardboard I placed wood dowels along where the cover flexes at the spine, used rubber bands to apply pressure the spine and then stacked a whole heap of other RPG books on top of it and let it set for 48 hours.

The Dowel rods force the crease of the spine to pinch inwards and help create proper adhesion. The side affect of this process is that the spine and page block are much stiffer than they used to be but the book lays flat just fine and I have had no trouble with it since and as a added bonus the book looks good as new.

As far as repairs go I took a somewhat different tact. After doing some rebinding research I took one of my wife's long metal knitting needles along with a long artist brush and applied / repainted a healthy amount of acid free book binding glue between the fabric spine and the page block. then after protecting the edges with cardboard I placed wood dowels along where the cover flexes at the spine, used rubber bands to apply pressure the spine and then stacked a whole heap of other RPG books on top of it and let it set for 48 hours.

The Dowel rods force the crease of the spine to pinch inwards and help create proper adhesion. The side affect of this process is that the spine and page block are much stiffer than they used to be but the book lays flat just fine and I have had no trouble with it since and as a added bonus the book looks good as new.

Similar approach here. Eased the strip far enough away from the signatures (with a broad-bladed skewer) to be able to apply glue with a flat wooden applicator between strip and signatures, then pressed together, made sure no glue had leaked at the top/bottom and so onto spine/pages, and left to go off. Seems ok so far (+1 week of use), no cosmetic harm, will be easy to redo if I find I've missed a bit.

Seemed easier than wading back through a 3rd-party distributor over the internet to the UK...

Any chance we can buy defective copies as non-mint?

I received a couple of replacement copies which unfortunately were both similarly afflicted.

I’m hoping that I can take preemptive action this time around - I slid a long sliver of metal between strip and spine and wiggled it around a bit to separate them without putting any stress of the fabric/pages join.

I’ll put the books into circulation next week and see how it goes. I’m reasonably confident that they should hold up much better this time around.

I received a couple of replacement copies which unfortunately were both similarly afflicted.

I’m hoping that I can take preemptive action this time around - I slid a long sliver of metal between strip and spine and wiggled it around a bit to separate them without putting any stress of the fabric/pages join.

I’ll put the books into circulation next week and see how it goes. I’m reasonably confident that they should hold up much better this time around.

Im sorry to hear your replacements were bad as well. Mine is on its way so im crossing my figures that its not the same way. Sounds like a very large portion of this run was defective.

I couldn't tell from your description did you re-glue the replacements as you did before? or just try to make sure the cloth strip was completely free of the spine back? My method pretty solidly glues the whole spine together and the strip to the spine backing but it still lays flat and has held up great so far. Just curious in case I want to experiment with a different method assuming the new one is bad.

This time I didn’t reglue the strip to the pages.

When I cut one of my copies open completely, it seemed to me that the root cause of all of this was that the glue had seeped through the fabric strip and stuck to the outer spine. That then produced tension, pulling the strip away from the pages it was supposed to be strengthening. It didn’t seem to me that the glue was weak or failing to hold - just that it was sticking the wrong things together.

My hope is that by taking preemptive action, that tension won’t be there and the book will hopefully last as intended.

My replacement copy had the defective binding too. I just had to lay it down flat and the binding started to fall apart.

Here’s an image comparing the binding with the Pathfinder CRB

I’m curious to know if the white stripe must be attached/glued to the cover or not. The Pathfinder CRB does, as many other RPG manuals, but the Eclipse Phase one does not, so I’m not sure if that’s part of the binding problem or a conscious binding decision.

Could someone with a proper binded book post a photo for comparison?

Vic has a link to what this kind of binding is supposed to look like in this post. The pages should be attached to the fabric strip, but the strip should not be attached to the spine of the book, as I understand it.

My replacement copy had the defective binding too. I just had to lay it down flat and the binding started to fall apart.

Here’s an image comparing the binding with the Pathfinder CRB

I’m curious to know if the white stripe must be attached/glued to the cover or not. The Pathfinder CRB does, as many other RPG manuals, but the Eclipse Phase one does not, so I’m not sure if that’s part of the binding problem or a conscious binding decision.

Could someone with a proper binded book post a photo for comparison?

Sorry that you got another bum copy. Mine should be coming soon. Crossing my fingers. I fixed my old copy to look like the Patfinder CRB and its held up great ever since. Not sure I am a fan of the other binding type but that is probably just do to all this trouble. Really hoping this is the last book this is a issue for.

So I got the replacements for both my Limited edition and regular edition. The limited edition binding is fine, sadly the binding for the replacement for the regular edition is bad. I sent customer service an email.

I'm not returning my defective copies, because i don't have the guarantee to get functional ones as replacement and what's even more problematic is, i wouldn't have any rules left to play and GM until at least december.

I guess i'll buy a second printing once it's available in germany, which may very well be early next year.

I'm not returning my defective copies, because i don't have the guarantee to get functional ones as replacement and what's even more problematic is, i wouldn't have any rules left to play and GM until at least december.

I guess i'll buy a second printing once it's available in germany, which may very well be early next year.

You could return one defective copy. Wait to see that the replacement is okay. Then return the second, third, etcetera (depending on how many you have).

Surely your local gaming store would be on board with that? (If you show them now you have defective copies, they can get started on the return process at least for the first).

The day this thread got started I checked by book and it had the defective binding. (See my above posts) I purchased it from amazon.com and worked with their customer service to get a full refund even after the period for refunds was closed. I then went to my local game store, spent about 10 minutes inspecting a new SF CRB with the store employee to ensure I got a book without a defective binding. Then the book sat on my book shelf for weeks as I mostly use the pdf I purchased from Paizo for game planing. My wife used the book this past weekend to start creating a character and after about 30 minutes of page turning with the book laying flat on the table... the binding completely separated just like the previous book.
I contacted the game store where I bought the book (I was sure to keep the receipt!) They let me know that they are waiting on replacement copies and have added me to a list of customers to call when the the replacements arrive. They told me to keep my copy for now and bring it in for a replacement when they contact me. There was already a plan in place from the store's end.
What I take away from this is that both the store where I purchased the book and Paizo have placed customer satisfaction ahead of the money being lost shipping these not-featherweight books back and fourth. Well done.

I'm not returning my defective copies, because i don't have the guarantee to get functional ones as replacement and what's even more problematic is, i wouldn't have any rules left to play and GM until at least december.

I guess i'll buy a second printing once it's available in germany, which may very well be early next year.

I purchased directly from Paizo and they told me I dont have to return the defective copies. Now I have two defectives copies, which I will try to repair and donate to a RPG association in my city once I get an alright copy of the book.

Well I am happy to report my replacement came to today and the binding looks great! With all the reports of the replacement copies having issues I had my doubts. I used the new hardback break in method of laying the covers down one by one then slowing lowering a few pages of each registry from each side until I had reached the middle of the book and it arched correctly with no separation even after leaving through it a bit more roughly each time. It's hard not to knee-jerk baby it but so far so good. It's a beautiful book.

Vic has a link to what this kind of binding is supposed to look like in this post. The pages should be attached to the fabric strip, but the strip should not be attached to the spine of the book, as I understand it.

Then it looks like my replacement copy is doomed -- the fabric strip is definitely stuck to the back of the book and does not form an arch when I open the book. Everything is still intact, but I am guessing that it won't be for very long.

By the way -- Where in the book is the text saying whether the book is a "First Printing" or a "Second Printing"?

The text "Second Printing" will appear on page 2 at the bottom of the masthead (that's the fancy publishing term for the credits), near "Printed in China." (The first printing does not say "First Printing.")

Note that the second printing has not yet arrived, so at this moment, every copy out there is First Printing.

A side-effect of having two replacement copies shipped is paranoia for the third copy, and watching the ends like a hawk.

Current plans for the two defective versions will be to try and get them bound into a ring at the local print shop, and use those for 'traveling' books.

Thank you for the update, Vic!

A side-effect of having two replacement copies shipped is paranoia for the third copy, and watching the ends like a hawk.

Current plans for the two defective versions will be to try and get them bound into a ring at the local print shop, and use those for 'traveling' books.

Thank you for the update, Vic!

Just get some good Acid Free Binding glue and a nice long artist brush and glue the fabric to the page block. it will glue the whole spine together so that it no longer arches but it will solve the problem and cost less than having it re-bound :)