Advanced Class Guide Preview: Warpriest

Tuesday, June 17, 2014


Illustration by Subroto Bhaumik

Many years ago, back in the days of the Advanced Player's Guide, there were plans to open up the paladin class to characters of any alignment. Unfortunately, the constraints of the class and its many alignment-based abilities made it too much of a challenge to fit in the pages of that book. Fortunately, the Advanced Class Guide gave us the opportunity to revisit the idea in the form of the Warpriest.

Blending together the powers of the fighter and the cleric, the warpriest is a class that allows you to represent the ideals of your deity, but to back them up with cold, hard steel. The class had 6 levels of divine spellcasting, combined with an ability called blessings that work like domains, but grant combat focused abilities. It seemed like a perfect blend, but the first version of the class that we put forth to playtest did not go over very well. The powers and abilities, as initially designed, just did not give the player enough martial ability to get the job done. It had some the spellcasting and some of the combat skill, but the two just did not work well together as initially presented. Fortunately, in round 2 of the playtest, we got it right (or maybe a bit too right). We added an ability called fervor that allows the warpriest to channel energy to heal his allies similar to a paladin's lay on hands, but it also could be spent to cast warpriest spells as a swift action, as long as those spells only targeted the warpriest. We also changed an ability called sacred weapon, which allows the warpriest to designate a weapon (or the favored weapon of his deity) and use that weapon to greater effect, increasing the damage and attack bonus.

Unfortunately, that caused a bit of a problem. The class was a bit too good.

The second round of playtest showed us some really interesting data. Everyone seemed in love with the class, which is certainly good, but our surveys also showed us that the class was now at the top of the power curve. After a number of internal playtests, it became clear that attacking with the full attack bonus of a fighter, combined with swift-casting a number of "buff" spells made the class a juggernaut. Since we really liked how the fervor mechanic worked, the sacred weapon rules had to change. Sacred weapon still increases the damage of weapons and it can still be used to grant special abilities to the weapon, but it no longer increases the attack bonus of the warpriest when using the designated weapon. Just like that, everything seemed to fit.

We also took another look at a wide number of the blessings, bringing them all in line with one another and making them a more seamless part of the class. Take the community blessing for example. The major version of the blessing did not fit really well and was outright useless to a warpriest of Erastil. It got changed to the following.

Fight as One (major): At 10th level, you can rally your allies to fight together. For 1 minute, whenever you make a successful melee or ranged attack against a foe, allies within 10 feet of you gain a +2 insight bonus on attacks of the same type you made against that foe—melee attacks if you made a melee attack, or ranged attacks if you made a ranged attack. If you score a critical hit, this bonus increases to +4 until the start of your next turn.

There are a lot of other exciting changes in the blessings as well, but for those, you will have to wait until the book arrives in stores and at Gencon in mid-August. Come back on Thursday to unleash your inner rage, now improved with magic!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:

Maybe the fancy horse is related to one of the blessings? A paladin-style mount would make sense for the Animal domain, actually.

In any case, I'm now a little more excited about the warpriest now that it's mechanics are cleared up. I think that removing the restriction for Sacred Weapon to be your deity's favoured weapon could allow for some interesting character concepts.

Wait I'm confused. I thought the sacred weapon didn't have to be your deity's favored weapon.
It doesn't. However, it did in the first playtest version, though not the second.

Argh, should have worded that better.


TerminalArtiste wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:

Maybe the fancy horse is related to one of the blessings? A paladin-style mount would make sense for the Animal domain, actually.

In any case, I'm now a little more excited about the warpriest now that it's mechanics are cleared up. I think that removing the restriction for Sacred Weapon to be your deity's favoured weapon could allow for some interesting character concepts.

Wait I'm confused. I thought the sacred weapon didn't have to be your deity's favored weapon.
It doesn't. However, it did in the first playtest version, though not the second.
Argh, should have worded that better.

If you didn't I wouldn't have gotten the ninja chuckle. So I for one am glad for the mess up.

Also, where did they say that sacred weapons can be weapons you have weapon focus with? I don't remember reading that in the second playtest.


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Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:

Maybe the fancy horse is related to one of the blessings? A paladin-style mount would make sense for the Animal domain, actually.

In any case, I'm now a little more excited about the warpriest now that it's mechanics are cleared up. I think that removing the restriction for Sacred Weapon to be your deity's favoured weapon could allow for some interesting character concepts.

Wait I'm confused. I thought the sacred weapon didn't have to be your deity's favored weapon.
It doesn't. However, it did in the first playtest version, though not the second.
Argh, should have worded that better.

If you didn't I wouldn't have gotten the ninja chuckle. So I for one am glad for the mess up.

Also, where did they say that sacred weapons can be weapons you have weapon focus with? I don't remember reading that in the second playtest.

It's the second sentence of Sacred Weapon:

Warpriest wrote:
Sacred Weapon (Su): Weapons wielded by a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat (if he has multiple Weapon Focus feats, this ability applies to all of them). Whenever the warpriest is wielding a sacred weapon, he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for attacks made with that weapon, stacking with any base attack bonus from other classes or racial Hit Dice.


Still no new Iconic in the blog? Any news why the jumped one week?


The guy responsible was sick.


Tels wrote:
Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ralanr wrote:
TerminalArtiste wrote:

Maybe the fancy horse is related to one of the blessings? A paladin-style mount would make sense for the Animal domain, actually.

In any case, I'm now a little more excited about the warpriest now that it's mechanics are cleared up. I think that removing the restriction for Sacred Weapon to be your deity's favoured weapon could allow for some interesting character concepts.

Wait I'm confused. I thought the sacred weapon didn't have to be your deity's favored weapon.
It doesn't. However, it did in the first playtest version, though not the second.
Argh, should have worded that better.

If you didn't I wouldn't have gotten the ninja chuckle. So I for one am glad for the mess up.

Also, where did they say that sacred weapons can be weapons you have weapon focus with? I don't remember reading that in the second playtest.

It's the second sentence of Sacred Weapon:

Warpriest wrote:
Sacred Weapon (Su): Weapons wielded by a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat (if he has multiple Weapon Focus feats, this ability applies to all of them). Whenever the warpriest is wielding a sacred weapon, he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for attacks made with that weapon, stacking with any base attack bonus from other classes or racial Hit Dice.

Obviously I am blind.


Undone wrote:
As I mentioned animal companions, immunity auras, inborn spells and the ability to fly all mimic spells often times important. The difference being these function in all cases and provide allies with valuable abilities (resistances to fear, disease, exct) passively.
Deadmanwalking wrote:


Almost none of these are utility powers in the sense normally used. They're all almost exclusively useful in direct combat and nowhere else. To reiterate, that's not what utility means.

You'd have to tell me what you consider utility if flying does not count. Same thing with mounts that let you travel further each day.

Undone wrote:
Nothing the WP gets compares to paladin auras, the AC, <flight> +5 foot reach, free resistances, or 4 levels of arcane spells vs divine spells
Deadmanwalking wrote:


They have the full Cleric list up to level 6. That's a huge amount of utility if they prep right.

My argument is that some of the paladin/Ranger exclusive spells at 4th level are at least 5th and in some cases 6th level spells. The cleric spell list isn't nearly as good as the personalized spell lists. As a result the "Utility" you claim they gain either lets them be bad out of combat or be mediocre in it.

Undone wrote:
(The magus being closest with the blood rager being the weakest of the three as printed due to no personalized spell list).
Deadmanwalking wrote:


I...have no idea what you just said.

The blood rager is the weakest of the full BAB/4th level casters but is still really good. The magus has the problem that he becomes worse as he levels up due to immunities, SR, resistances and so on.

Undone wrote:

The issue is simple.

The WP has almost exclusively combat passive abilities for class features.

Deadmanwalking wrote:


Possibly, but he also has the Cleric list. And going through the Warpriest's shortcomings, while certainly relevant to this thread, is not sufficient for your argument with me, since you made a lot of general statements about all 6-level casters that I was disagreeing with, not just ones about the Warpriest (which I wouldn't have disputed the same way...since we simply don't know enough about the final version to say much about it).

The 6th level magic isn't as strong as the 4th level spells granted to exclusive spell lists. Holy sword is a good example of a spell significantly more powerful than 4th level and most 5th level magic. There are plenty of spells on the ranger and paladin spell list which are significantly more powerful than their 4th level slot would indicate and in some cases they have blatant 5th level magic. My point is that much like summoners who have "6th level magic" but really have 9th level magic rangers and paladins have "4th level magic" which is really 5th or 6th. The war priest actually has 6th level magic. ONLY 6th level magic since it doesn't have a specific list. The cleric 6th levels are good but they aren't 7th, 8th exct. My point is that the printed level of the magic isn't important. The effective level of the magic is far more important.

Undone wrote:
The WP has to use his spells for combat or utility.
Deadmanwalking wrote:


Yes. And?

Either they can have poor utility or average combat abilities.

Undone wrote:
The Paladin (what I feel is closest) has utility passively in auras, immunities, and a bond or mount.
Deadmanwalking wrote:


Those aren't utility. They're very nice, but don't meet the definition of utility abilities that other people are using.

Unless people use utility basically to mean skill checks I'm sort of at a loss. Flight is a huge one. Mounts move you faster around the world. Immunities are the same as having the remove X spell permanent. If people are meaning skill checks the WP gets 2+int which is pretty low on that front compared to ranger and paladin.

Undone wrote:
The paladin has stronger in combat capabilities.
Deadmanwalking wrote:


Possibly. Hard to tell given we lack the full class at the moment.

It's not that hard to tell. The paladin, ranger, and barbarian have the highest non cheesy outputs either via archery or lance (Summoner edilons using guns >>).


Fun >>>>>>>>> Power :)

Liberty's Edge

Undone wrote:
You'd have to tell me what you consider utility if flying does not count. Same thing with mounts that let you travel further each day.

Oh, flight counts. It's pretty much the only thing on your list that does. Though, as I mentioned in another post, it counts a lot less if you can only use it while Raging (since that limits it's out-of-combat uses sharply).

And everyone can buy horses cheap. Animal companions are a combat advantage, but less than 100 gp of utility advantage. Which is to say not a meaningful one.

Undone wrote:
My argument is that some of the paladin/Ranger exclusive spells at 4th level are at least 5th and in some cases 6th level spells. The cleric spell list isn't nearly as good as the personalized spell lists. As a result the "Utility" you claim they gain either lets them be bad out of combat or be mediocre in it.

That's maybe justifiable with the Warpriest (though given the awesomeness of the Cleric list, I'm not convinced).

It's utter crap regarding the other 6 level casters, who also get several spells above their official level (as I mentioned previously, Bards and Inquisitors get Overwhelming Presence, which is a 9th level spell for anyone else).

Undone wrote:
The blood rager is the weakest of the full BAB/4th level casters but is still really good. The magus has the problem that he becomes worse as he levels up due to immunities, SR, resistances and so on.

The Magus does not have these problems, as others mention. Or rather, such problems are easily overcome.

Undone wrote:
Either they can have poor utility or average combat abilities.

If they have less utility than Clerics, but more than Paladins, and more combative stuff than Clerics but less than Paladins...that actually sounds ideal. Dunno if that's what we'll get, we'll have to wait and see.

Undone wrote:
Unless people use utility basically to mean skill checks I'm sort of at a loss. Flight is a huge one. Mounts move you faster around the world. Immunities are the same as having the remove X spell permanent. If people are meaning skill checks the WP gets 2+int which is pretty low on that front compared to ranger and paladin.

Flight is huge if you can do it for more than a few seconds. It's only okay if it's that limited. Mounts are purchase-able. Immunities are only like Remove Condition spells for you not other people (and using them on other people is the main utility use for such spells...stuff that protects just you is more like high Saves, which are not a utility effect in a meaningful sense), and condition removal is a tiny subset of utility anyway.

Utility effects solve problems. Skills are definitely a utility effect, but so is Overland Flight, or real condition removal, or Discern Lies, or Teleport. Things that make a problem not a problem any more.

Undone wrote:
It's not that hard to tell. The paladin, ranger, and barbarian have the highest non cheesy outputs either via archery or lance (Summoner edilons using guns >>).

Yeah, but you were saying it was better than the Warpriest's, which may be true, but we don't know, since we lack the final version of the Warpriest for comparison purposes.


Quote:

Oh, flight counts. It's pretty much the only thing on your list that does. Though, as I mentioned in another post, it counts a lot less if you can only use it while Raging (since that limits it's out-of-combat uses sharply).

And everyone can buy horses cheap. Animal companions are a combat advantage, but less than 100 gp of utility advantage. Which is to say not a meaningful one.

I'd have to disagree. Animal companions mean that you don't have to spend thousands of gold replacing your mount every time you get attacked.

Flight even for a few seconds lets you 4x across a chasm, up a cliff, or to reach a roof. And for 20+ rounds (admittedly while raging only) still counts. The ranger can just take a griffon AC which is pretty similar in terms of strength to a lion and flies.

Quote:

That's maybe justifiable with the Warpriest (though given the awesomeness of the Cleric list, I'm not convinced).

It's utter crap regarding the other 6 level casters, who also get several spells above their official level (as I mentioned previously, Bards and Inquisitors get Overwhelming Presence, which is a 9th level spell for anyone else).

Bards as with summmoners are exceptions due to them being "6th level casters" Bards get Irresistible dance. When I read Overwhelming Presence I was not impressed. It's an AOE save or suck with the following things on it

Quote:


School enchantment (compulsion) [emotion, mind-affecting]
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will negates, see text; Spell Resistance yes

Most things will be immune and a first level spell negates it, additionally on a save (Will is the second highest on average) it doesn't significantly effect casters unlike dance and it allows for SR. It's not terrible but honestly it's not very scary when a first level spell and half a dozen monster types negates it.

Quote:
The Magus does not have these problems, as others mention. Or rather, such problems are easily overcome.

I'm just going to have to disagree after running bonekeep with a fairly well built 5th level magus. He couldn't use his spells for a LOT of the adventure because "Immune X, Resistant to Y, Immune to magic, SR resisted the spell". I've also seen higher level magus (Magi?) struggle whenever faced with something remotely challenging like demons, devils, dragons, and aberrations.

Quote:
If they have less utility than Clerics, but more than Paladins, and more combative stuff than Clerics but less than Paladins...that actually sounds ideal. Dunno if that's what we'll get, we'll have to wait and see.

My problem is that combat they are Paladin>Cleric>WP at levels after 4-6. WP is in the middle for the first few levels but then drops off as the cleric gets 10/level and hour/level buffs that begin to last all day. It's true that the WP gets them eventually but by then the cleric is on to even higher and even more powerful buffs in addition to the previous. If they actually fit in the middle that's fine. But the problem is they only fit in the middle at very low levels.

Quote:

Flight is huge if you can do it for more than a few seconds. It's only okay if it's that limited. Mounts are purchase-able. Immunities are only like Remove Condition spells for you not other people (and using them on other people is the main utility use for such spells...stuff that protects just you is more like high Saves, which are not a utility effect in a meaningful sense), and condition removal is a tiny subset of utility anyway.

Utility effects solve problems. Skills are definitely a utility effect, but so is Overland Flight, or real condition removal, or Discern Lies, or Teleport. Things that make a problem not a problem any more.

Paladin lay on hands is real condition removal, last check and he can do it more times per day than most casters.

Quote:
Yeah, but you were saying it was better than the Warpriest's, which may be true, but we don't know, since we lack the final version of the Warpriest for comparison purposes.

The war priest does not have a significant attack and damage steroid which is comparable to smite evil. In addition to losing BAB there is no comparison damage wise. It's easy math.

Quote:
Fun >>>>>>>>> Power :)

I agree but death is unfun.


Can I get a quick rundown of the versioning of this class? I'm seeing references to first and second playtest versions, and some of the older threads are clearly way out of date.

I just picked up Hero Lab and built a warpriest of Irori, and then found this thread where people are talking about changes that I don't see either in Hero Lab or the downloadable preview here on Paizo. (like the BAB change). I can't tell if this discussion is just based on the blog post above or if there's a newer version of the class I can't find.

thanks!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It's just based on the blog post and commentary from Jason here in this thread; the newest fully-released version is still the second playtest.


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"I'm just going to have to disagree after running bonekeep with a fairly well built 5th level magus. He couldn't use his spells for a LOT of the adventure because "Immune X, Resistant to Y, Immune to magic, SR resisted the spell". I've also seen higher level magus (Magi?) struggle whenever faced with something remotely challenging like demons, devils, dragons, and aberrations."

I find this highly suspect.

To reiterate the basic Magus strategy, Elemental Intensified Shocking Grasps will carry you to atleast 12th level. Magical Lineage makes that a 2nd level spell. Wayang Spell Hunter makes it a 1st level spell. Add Piercing if you are really having that much of an issue with SR (which is pitifully easy to defeat, short of ludicrously bad rolls). If theyre immune to magic, use spells that ignore sr like Snowball.


It seems like we are also ignoring the sacred weapon damage and the fervor mechanic.


Scavion wrote:

"I'm just going to have to disagree after running bonekeep with a fairly well built 5th level magus. He couldn't use his spells for a LOT of the adventure because "Immune X, Resistant to Y, Immune to magic, SR resisted the spell". I've also seen higher level magus (Magi?) struggle whenever faced with something remotely challenging like demons, devils, dragons, and aberrations."

I find this highly suspect.

To reiterate the basic Magus strategy, Elemental Intensified Shocking Grasps will carry you to atleast 12th level. Magical Lineage makes that a 2nd level spell. Wayang Spell Hunter makes it a 1st level spell. Add Piercing if you are really having that much of an issue with SR (which is pitifully easy to defeat, short of ludicrously bad rolls). If theyre immune to magic, use spells that ignore sr like Snowball.

He didn't use Snowball so I guess there is that. I've never seen someone use Snowball in an actual game (Yes It's OP and it should be used) but in PFS you have to own that book. He was using intensified shocking grasps. Unfortunately first two rooms are immune, third room is trapped, fourth room has DR and takes no elemental damage fourth room he failed a save and feared, fifth room was easily handled before he got an attack. He was unable to manage the construct or contribute meaningfully to the final encounter where he was killed.

Quote:
It seems like we are also ignoring the sacred weapon damage and the fervor mechanic.

I'm not. Sacred weapon does not meaningfully contribute to damage. A great sword does 2d6. Fervor is the core of the discussion but doesn't really contribute much to combat. Self buffs are required to break even with full BAB. It effectively strips you of a spell and a fervor use and your first round swift action. Having full BAB is significantly better than the entire fervor mechanic.

Liberty's Edge

Undone wrote:
I'd have to disagree. Animal companions mean that you don't have to spend thousands of gold replacing your mount every time you get attacked.

If the horses are getting killed more than once a level or so, you're probably doing it wrong. That's 3k gp by 20th level. And assuming you never kill some folk and take their horses.

Undone wrote:
Flight even for a few seconds lets you 4x across a chasm, up a cliff, or to reach a roof. And for 20+ rounds (admittedly while raging only) still counts. The ranger can just take a griffon AC which is pretty similar in terms of strength to a lion and flies.

The Ranger has solid utility, as I've mentioned previously. And rounds of flight are indeed some utility...but not very much, comparatively, especially since they eat into your combat ability significantly if you use them much for that.

Undone wrote:

Bards as with summmoners are exceptions due to them being "6th level casters" Bards get Irresistible dance. When I read Overwhelming Presence I was not impressed. It's an AOE save or suck with the following things on it

Most things will be immune and a first level spell negates it, additionally on a save (Will is the second highest on average) it doesn't significantly effect casters unlike dance and it allows for SR. It's not terrible but honestly it's not very scary when a first level spell and half a dozen monster types negates it.

I think you're exaggerating the difficulties there, and in any case it remains a 9th level spell and an encounter winner when it's useful. Also, an example. It's hardly the only such effect.

Undone wrote:
I'm just going to have to disagree after running bonekeep with a fairly well built 5th level magus. He couldn't use his spells for a LOT of the adventure because "Immune X, Resistant to Y, Immune to magic, SR resisted the spell". I've also seen higher level magus (Magi?) struggle whenever faced with something remotely challenging like demons, devils, dragons, and aberrations.

As Scavion notes...well built may not be the proper description if he's really having this much trouble.

Undone wrote:
My problem is that combat they are Paladin>Cleric>WP at levels after 4-6. WP is in the middle for the first few levels but then drops off as the cleric gets 10/level and hour/level buffs that begin to last all day. It's true that the WP gets them eventually but by then the cleric is on to even higher and even more powerful buffs in addition to the previous. If they actually fit in the middle that's fine. But the problem is they only fit in the middle at very low levels.

We don't know this. Because we don't have the actual class to look at. We have a playtest version...but it's clearly been pretty radically altered, which makes your assumptions highly premature.

Undone wrote:
Paladin lay on hands is real condition removal, last check and he can do it more times per day than most casters.

It is indeed! As is Diplomacy, which a Paladin is also likely to have. It's also highly limited to specific conditions, though, while a War Priest can, at 7th, get rid of almost all of them with a day's prep.

I never said the full BAB classes had no utility. I said they had less than the 6-level casters, for the most part, and that what you were listing wasn't it.

Undone wrote:
The war priest does not have a significant attack and damage steroid which is comparable to smite evil. In addition to losing BAB there is no comparison damage wise. It's easy math.

It is if you assume nothing else has changed about the class except the things mentioned in this thread. That's an assumption, though, and a poor one.

Liberty's Edge

Undone wrote:
He didn't use Snowball so I guess there is that. I've never seen someone use Snowball in an actual game (Yes It's OP and it should be used) but in PFS you have to own that book. He was using intensified shocking grasps. Unfortunately first two rooms are immune, third room is trapped, fourth room has DR and takes no elemental damage fourth room he failed a save and feared, fifth room was easily handled before he got an attack. He was unable to manage the construct or contribute meaningfully to the final encounter where he was killed.

Elemental Spell and Corrosive Touch pretty much fix this problem for a Magus who's, y'know, paying attention.

Only idiots and the inexperienced walk around with only one damage type. Especially elemental damage.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Undone wrote:
He didn't use Snowball so I guess there is that. I've never seen someone use Snowball in an actual game (Yes It's OP and it should be used) but in PFS you have to own that book. He was using intensified shocking grasps. Unfortunately first two rooms are immune, third room is trapped, fourth room has DR and takes no elemental damage fourth room he failed a save and feared, fifth room was easily handled before he got an attack. He was unable to manage the construct or contribute meaningfully to the final encounter where he was killed.

Elemental Spell and Corrosive Touch pretty much fix this problem for a Magus who's, y'know, paying attention.

Only idiots and the inexperienced walk around with only one damage type. Especially elemental damage.

He had corrosive touch. It was unable to effect any of those encounters. Elemental spell wouldn't have been much more effective but would have let him bypass some of the immunities and do half damage with spells.


Ralanr wrote:
It seems like we are also ignoring the sacred weapon damage and the fervor mechanic.

Well if we are going to bring *that one* up again; how many people see Sacred Weapon doing something before it reaches a level higher than 1D8? I choose that point for those who want "flavourful" weapons or ones that match their diety. How many two handed builds is anyone planning that makes use of Sacred Weapon at all?

I think its a cool option but when looking at combat potential it doesnt really do much, it comes across soley as a flavor thing to say you swing a mighty staff or dagger when you would otherwise be doing the same thing with a sword.

Liberty's Edge

Undone wrote:
He had corrosive touch. It was unable to effect any of those encounters. Elemental spell wouldn't have been much more effective but would have let him bypass some of the immunities and do half damage with spells.

Indeed. Half damage isn't ideal, but it's quite a bit better than nothing.

Also...a Magus shouldn't rely entirely on his spells for damage. By 5th level, he should've been doing 1d6+7 or so at least, and had enough Arcane Pool to get through most non-alignment DR. And Alignment DR is what Oil of Bless Weapon (or Align Weapon) is for. With that and Arcane Mark, he should be doing 20 points of damage or so per turn if both attacks hit.

Webstore Gninja Minion

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Removed several posts and their replies. No matter how you phrase it, rape jokes are not welcome on the boards.


*scratches head* I was not aware that my post was related to, or was a reply to, any such joke.

Webstore Gninja Minion

Kryptik wrote:

*scratches head* I was not aware that my post was related to, or was a reply to, any such joke.

Yours got snuffed in the removal of posts quoting removed posts.


Aw shucks. It was one of my better puns!

But thanks for your vigilance, Liz. I hate those kinds of jokes.


Was I apart of this? I don't recall making a joke about rape...


Nor do I. But if I did bring any up then I apologize for that was never my intention.


Guess I'll get this out there

What I want from the Warpriest
-Better Sustained combat than the Inquisitor
-Blessings that offer meaningful contribution to situations
-It not to play like an inquisitor (Right now it seems the Warpriest is gonna spend a few rounds swift action buffing with short buffs on a limited use per day. That gameplay is exactly like the inquisitor)
-Capable of being effective at a group of skills that are useful to itself and the party. Also hopefully 4+ skill points
-For it to suceed at being a "any alinement Paladin!"

What I don't want
-For it to be an Inquisitor in medium armor
-For it to be a worse "Warpriest" than a Martial1/Cleric19 or similar "beatstick faith based PrC/multiclass" since the whole point of this book seems to be obsoleting those.
-For it to have trouble offering a new gameplay experience
-Buffed blessing that are still terrible (Standard action blessings that offer tiny gains? Blech)

Only time will tell how the Warpriest turns out, but I find it hard to believe that many abilities were added between V2 and final since they had to rush these classes to meet a publication deadline (SKR said as much in several threads). As things stand it really seems that the Warpriest will play as an Inquisitor in medium armor, the cleric spell list on slow progression, with few skill points, and few compelling class features that offer narrative power.

This saddens me because Warpriest was actually viable in V2 and now it seems the new Warpriest is struggling to find its identity among the scraps of other classes features.


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Why is everyone so hung up on the skill points?

Both of the warpriests parent classes (fighter and cleric) receive only 2+ skill points, I thus can see no reason to give the warpriest more than that.

Aside for it now not having pseude full BAB (a thing that would very likely make that class too good compared to a fighter), I really like every change I heard so far (between Playtest v2 and final).

Fervor not being limited by your CHA (and thus making the class less MAD) is a good thing. I just hope it's uses aren't too few per day. Thinking 1/2 level + WIS.

Being able to gain feats as fast as a fighter and counting as fighter, is a huge thing. (Having a fighter BAB progression on top would be breaking!)

Not having its own spell list is a bonus for bookkeeping. I've seen several people that didn't like the bloodrager gaining his own list and I can see their reasoning:
- Paizo has to include one more class in the header of new classes.
- third party spells have to be assessed by the people allowing them (thankfully not an issue for me, I have enough material from Paizo as is).

(Ramble... I know.)

(I'm not going to reply to Insain Dragoon's reply)

Why isn't it August already?


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That's like saying "My parents both flunked out of High School, thus I see no reason to do more than that"

or "My parent's had me at 16, so I'll knock up a girl while in High School"

2 skill points per level on the fighter and to a lesser extent on the Cleric was a mistake.

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