Advanced Class Guide Preview: Warpriest

Tuesday, June 17, 2014


Illustration by Subroto Bhaumik

Many years ago, back in the days of the Advanced Player's Guide, there were plans to open up the paladin class to characters of any alignment. Unfortunately, the constraints of the class and its many alignment-based abilities made it too much of a challenge to fit in the pages of that book. Fortunately, the Advanced Class Guide gave us the opportunity to revisit the idea in the form of the Warpriest.

Blending together the powers of the fighter and the cleric, the warpriest is a class that allows you to represent the ideals of your deity, but to back them up with cold, hard steel. The class had 6 levels of divine spellcasting, combined with an ability called blessings that work like domains, but grant combat focused abilities. It seemed like a perfect blend, but the first version of the class that we put forth to playtest did not go over very well. The powers and abilities, as initially designed, just did not give the player enough martial ability to get the job done. It had some the spellcasting and some of the combat skill, but the two just did not work well together as initially presented. Fortunately, in round 2 of the playtest, we got it right (or maybe a bit too right). We added an ability called fervor that allows the warpriest to channel energy to heal his allies similar to a paladin's lay on hands, but it also could be spent to cast warpriest spells as a swift action, as long as those spells only targeted the warpriest. We also changed an ability called sacred weapon, which allows the warpriest to designate a weapon (or the favored weapon of his deity) and use that weapon to greater effect, increasing the damage and attack bonus.

Unfortunately, that caused a bit of a problem. The class was a bit too good.

The second round of playtest showed us some really interesting data. Everyone seemed in love with the class, which is certainly good, but our surveys also showed us that the class was now at the top of the power curve. After a number of internal playtests, it became clear that attacking with the full attack bonus of a fighter, combined with swift-casting a number of "buff" spells made the class a juggernaut. Since we really liked how the fervor mechanic worked, the sacred weapon rules had to change. Sacred weapon still increases the damage of weapons and it can still be used to grant special abilities to the weapon, but it no longer increases the attack bonus of the warpriest when using the designated weapon. Just like that, everything seemed to fit.

We also took another look at a wide number of the blessings, bringing them all in line with one another and making them a more seamless part of the class. Take the community blessing for example. The major version of the blessing did not fit really well and was outright useless to a warpriest of Erastil. It got changed to the following.

Fight as One (major): At 10th level, you can rally your allies to fight together. For 1 minute, whenever you make a successful melee or ranged attack against a foe, allies within 10 feet of you gain a +2 insight bonus on attacks of the same type you made against that foe—melee attacks if you made a melee attack, or ranged attacks if you made a ranged attack. If you score a critical hit, this bonus increases to +4 until the start of your next turn.

There are a lot of other exciting changes in the blessings as well, but for those, you will have to wait until the book arrives in stores and at Gencon in mid-August. Come back on Thursday to unleash your inner rage, now improved with magic!

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer

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Rynjin wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Read further, Brad, and you'll see why her followers actually USING one makes little sense.

Rynjin, I did read the rest of it and did not see a good reason for them not too. In fact found that a lot of adventures that are devoted to her actually carrie Gold-plated glaives. I could have missed something but at this point I do not think so.

Seems to me that a devotee of Shelyn actually using a glaive is entirely missing the point of what the glaive represents.

It's like being so devoted to the idea of peace that you beat someone to death with a flag of truce. It's just wrong.

Well, more importantly, the tenets of the faith should be waaaaaaaay more important that the use of a specific weapon.

Citing Mikaze from memory: " I prefer a warpriest of Iomedae that use a greatsword and have a great background and good roleplay than a warpriest of gorum because greatswords".

Dark Archive

Rynjin wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Read further, Brad, and you'll see why her followers actually USING one makes little sense.

Rynjin, I did read the rest of it and did not see a good reason for them not too. In fact found that a lot of adventures that are devoted to her actually carrie Gold-plated glaives. I could have missed something but at this point I do not think so.

Seems to me that a devotee of Shelyn actually using a glaive is entirely missing the point of what the glaive represents.

It's like being so devoted to the idea of peace that you beat someone to death with a flag of truce. It's just wrong.

The problem I see with that is that they are willing to fight for what they believe in and to protect beauty. That is what the glaive represents to her followers, being willing to fight to protect the beauty of what is around them. They might not be the most martial religion but they are also not pacifists.


brad2411 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Read further, Brad, and you'll see why her followers actually USING one makes little sense.

Rynjin, I did read the rest of it and did not see a good reason for them not too. In fact found that a lot of adventures that are devoted to her actually carrie Gold-plated glaives. I could have missed something but at this point I do not think so.

Seems to me that a devotee of Shelyn actually using a glaive is entirely missing the point of what the glaive represents.

It's like being so devoted to the idea of peace that you beat someone to death with a flag of truce. It's just wrong.

The problem I see with that is that they are willing to fight for what they believe in and to protect beauty. That is what the glaive represents to her followers, being willing to fight to protect the beauty of what is around them. They might not be the most martial religion but they are also not pacifists.

Maybe I should just say it blatantly.

Her glaive is an evil soul sucking weapon that could bring about massive destruction. Turning around and saying its your favored weapon is a very very strange thing to do as a God even before you start training your clerics specifically in their use and potentially granting class features based on whether they use a like weapon.


Not a guru on golarion, but I think there is a faction of sanranrae churh in Osirion that do not use scimitars because Qadira. Depending on the importantce of the feat chain warpriest of that faction might be screwed.


Analogy time:

Im the mayor of a village that defeated a bandit lord and took his super evil halberd. Now I decide that halberds are my favorite weapon though I pointedly do not use the halberd I got. Now I demand that my costituents learn how to use halberds and refuse to give them vital resources in their time of need if they do otherwise. I also deny them if they lose their halberd or are otherwise unable to wield.

Thats favored weapons in a nutshell though Shelyn's in particular.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I do see the point of alot of people who say that sacred weapon should be limited to their deities favored weapon (or not), but to me the answer lies more in terms of the weapon the player chooses for other reasons,

example 1: I always felt that at some point Abadar would choose the firearm as a favored weapon as times/cultures change and the firearm becomes adopted, it's not like it hasn't happened before.

example 2: Does anyone know the weapon Shelyn favored before the age of darkness and her brothers fall into Zon-Kuthon? I mean before he fell and she took his glaive, she must have used something else.

example 3: Paladin's are holy warriors to their church as well as to their code yet most paladin's use longsword and not the other weapons of their faith. Plus they are not limited to their religions favored weapon.

We also have to remember that clerics don't get trained in any martial weapon except their deities favored. and these priests of the faith are better in divine spells and religious duties than the warpriests whose job is to lead their faith into battle, where many of the favored weapon choices aren't common implements. so they train with martial weapons so that if a warpriest of Gorum does not have a greatsword, but the magic longsword next to him is useful, he can still wield it.

Cause in the midst of battle any weapon if better than none.


It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?


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redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?

The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.


So could a sacred fist snag crusader's flurry and go to town with say, a tetsubo? Has anyone seen the text for pummel style yet, can that be mixed in?


Rynjin wrote:
redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?
The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.

I had some problems parsing that, but the question of whether Shelyn and her followers would or should wield a Glaive is not an issue specific to the Warpriest.


redward wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?
The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.
I had some problems parsing that, but the question of whether Shelyn and her followers would or should wield a Glaive is not an issue specific to the Warpriest.

I'll give this to you from the beginning. This is a summary of the events leading to this discussion.

Platest Warpriest version 1: Warpriest is given the "sacred weapon" ability. Sacred weapon only applies to the deity's favored weapon.

Player reaction: incredible amounts of disagreeing with this. Arguments similar to mine about why it made no sense are everywhere.

Playtest Warpriest version 2: Paizo devs concede that Warpriest should not be tied to only their deity's favored weapon due to the sensical arguments people made during the playtest. Sacred weapon now applies to any weapon the Warpriest takes weapon focus for (But also applies to the favored weapon too, as a nod to their "importance.")

Release Warpriest: Sacred weapon still applies to weapon focused weapon and deity's favored weapons. Sweet. This is good and what everyone wanted.

ACG's Weapon of the Chosen feat line: These feats are intended for warpriests, but only interact with the Warpriest's favored weapon, instead of all the weapons that their Sacred Weapon applies to. Feedback on Sacred Weapon was ignored. People in this thread are now upset.


Adam B. 135 wrote:
redward wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?
The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.
I had some problems parsing that, but the question of whether Shelyn and her followers would or should wield a Glaive is not an issue specific to the Warpriest.
ACG's Weapon of the Chosen feat line: These feats are intended for warpriests, but only interact with the Warpriest's favored weapon, instead of all the weapons that their Sacred Weapon applies to. Feedback on Sacred Weapon was ignored. People in this thread are now upset.

I don't have the ACG yet, but from what I gathered Weapon of the Chosen is not specifically for Warpriests, rather anyone who uses a Deity's Favored Weapon.

Regardless, the ensuing discussion of what is an appropriate Favored Weapon for a specific Deity or her followers, or whether the concept itself is flawed, is not specific to the Warpriest, and the last couple pages of comments seem pretty focused on that issue. Which is why I suggested it might be best served as its own subject.


redward wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
redward wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?
The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.
I had some problems parsing that, but the question of whether Shelyn and her followers would or should wield a Glaive is not an issue specific to the Warpriest.
ACG's Weapon of the Chosen feat line: These feats are intended for warpriests, but only interact with the Warpriest's favored weapon, instead of all the weapons that their Sacred Weapon applies to. Feedback on Sacred Weapon was ignored. People in this thread are now upset.
I don't have the ACG yet, but from what I gathered Weapon of the Chosen is not specifically for Warpriests, rather anyone who uses a Deity's Favored Weapon.

Yes, but it is advertised being very good for Warpriests by one of the developers in order to convince people that Warpriests didn't get a raw deal in the ACG. Besides, a divinely charged set of combat feats screams "This was for warpriests" even if it does not say "warpriest level 2" in the feat prerequisites.

redward wrote:


Regardless, the ensuing discussion of what is an appropriate Favored Weapon for a specific Deity or her followers, or whether the concept itself is flawed, is not specific to the Warpriest, and the last couple pages of comments seem pretty focused on that issue. Which is why I suggested it might be best served as its own subject.

You are right on that account. The argument that the Weapon of the Chosen feat line which was advertised as being an awesome Warpriest feat need an errata due to its lack of interaction with Sacred Weapon does belong here though. When people argue against it, they will probably bring up favored weapons and the off-topic argument will start again.


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Adam B. 135 wrote:
redward wrote:
Adam B. 135 wrote:
redward wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
redward wrote:
It sounds like this is an issue with favored weapon in general rather than anything specific to the warpriest. Maybe a new thread would be the best place to explore it in more depth?
The problem here in a specific sense is the Favored Weapon rules interacting with this Feat which makes the concession to not needing to use the Favored Weapon of your deity seem like more of a placation while they slip things under the radar to make it a poorer option regardless.
I had some problems parsing that, but the question of whether Shelyn and her followers would or should wield a Glaive is not an issue specific to the Warpriest.
ACG's Weapon of the Chosen feat line: These feats are intended for warpriests, but only interact with the Warpriest's favored weapon, instead of all the weapons that their Sacred Weapon applies to. Feedback on Sacred Weapon was ignored. People in this thread are now upset.
I don't have the ACG yet, but from what I gathered Weapon of the Chosen is not specifically for Warpriests, rather anyone who uses a Deity's Favored Weapon.
Yes, but it is advertised being very good for Warpriests by one of the developers in order to convince people that Warpriests didn't get a raw deal in the ACG. Besides, a divinely charged set of combat feats screams "This was for warpriests" even if it does not say "warpriest level 2" in the feat prerequisites.

Owen never said "the Warpriest is good because of Weapon of the Chosen". He said

"The war priest operates at its best when you look at what it maximizes and work with that as a build, rather than try to make it work like an fighter, inquisitor, or cleric."

and

"What makes that build particularly attractive is Greater Weapon of the Chosen. It is easiest for war priests to pick up (since they get Weapon Focus and bonus feats & are less likely to be penalized for selecting their deity's favored weapon)."

I don't have the ACG yet, so I don't yet know how the class stacks up. I've been happy with my Warpriest and I'm not terribly concerned with the loss in BAB, but I'm also playing a ranged character and my preliminary math is telling me I should be okay.

But I think the key to the class is that you can't try to use it like a Fighter with spells or a Cleric with full BAB (especially since it doesn't have that anymore). It has different mechanics that require a different approach.

Owen's build isn't going to work for every Warpriest. I don't think he was implying it would. Nor do I think he was trying to prop it up as "this is how the Warpriest is good." He was saying "you can make productive characters with the Warpriest, here's one example."

It may well be that the class turns out to be a subpar option on the whole. That doesn't concern me as long as I can make a character that I enjoy playing and that can contribute effectively to my party. If I can't, I'll be adding my criticism to the chorus. But I'm not going to make that call until I've looked at the book and had some time to see how the final product interacts with everything else.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed a post and reply. Accusations of trolling add nothing to the conversation. Let's try to dial back the hostility here.


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It's unfortunate they removed the only thing that made the class compete. without full BAB it's just a bad cleric. The self buffs are needed to equal a paladin for a few times a day. The spell progression is insignificant in it's improvement over paladin spell list and is too weak to compete with a cleric.

You burn through resources like an addict. I can literally see WP's telling the GM "We've got to sleep man, I've gota get my fix!"


I really can't wait until Thursday to see how this class and the feats stack up. God, I really wanna see how the Archetypes stack up and modify existing abilities.

Shadow Lodge

So, book in hand, not terribly impressed.

Some of the changes I've noticed:

If a warpriest also has levels in a class that grants cleric domains, the blessings chosen must match the domains selected by that class. Subject to GM discretion, the warpriest can change his former blessings or domains to make them conform.

Scred Weapon does not stop for thrown (ranged is not specified, just thrown) weapons.

Bonus Feats: At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a warpriest gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. The warpriest must meet the prerequisites for these feats, but he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus for these feats. . .

Channel Energy is still in (why), but is based off of Wis. So can we finally fix the cleric then?

Can use both Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor at the same time by using 1 use of Fervor (1 Swift and 1 Free Action).

Negative Channeling Warpriests still get sorta screwed.

A few minor tweeks to Blessings.

Shadow Lodge

Major_Blackhart wrote:
I really can't wait until Thursday to see how this class and the feats stack up. God, I really wanna see how the Archetypes stack up and modify existing abilities.

Most of them seem less about tweeking the class to account for different styles of Warpriest and more to make them function similar to multiclassing. There is the Paladin, the Inquisitor, the Witch, the Cavaier, Wizard (crafter type), and the Monk ish Warpriests. All in all, pretty surprisingly not good options for a class that a lot of people questioned it's place in the hybrid class design/theme slot, and not really taking to many of the ideas for what a Cleric/Fighter mesh = Warpriest could be. It does offer the Paladin of any Alignment, but not the Divine Magus, Domain Fighter, Battle Cleric, or the various others that where mentioned a lot.

The Sacred Fist (WarMonk) stands out amongst the rest, both for being pretty mechanically good and interesting. Odd as the straight Warpriest, if nothing else, already makes at least the Monk cry.

I did also notice a lack of Extra Fervor Feat, though for some odd reason Extra Channel is reprinted. Probably would have been a lot better to place the extra bits in the Warpriest write up rather than as a disclaimed here, but the Feat does not change. (ie Warpriests get +4 Fervos, but only for 2 extra uses of Channel Energy, no different than what the Feat actually does by adding 2 extra uses of Channel Energy).

None of the Warpriest/Cleric Spells really jumped out though most of the other classes did.

Favored Class options are kind of meh, and noticeably lacking Aasimar. And for whatever reason, they decided to get very specific with some of them. Elf Warpriests: ". . .but he can use these additional blessings on only those from the Air, Animal, Charm, Magic, Plant, or Sun domains." Dwarf Warpriest: ". . .but he can only use these
additional uses on blessings that affect weapons or armor."

All in all, it's pretty clear that the writers love some classes and not others, and Warpriest was probably at the bottom. Not terrible. But certainly lacking the "that's freakin' awesome" and love that all the other classes seemed to get, which was pretty evident in the playtesting.

Weapon of the Chosen line is not really particularly impressive, honestly. Maybe for archers. Weapon of the Chosen works on 1 attack, and basically just lets you reroll against concealment. Improved bumps that up to all attacks. Greater would be nice, but requires a single attack with the Standard Action Attack Action to use, which drops it's usefulness significantly (roll twice and take the highest roll). Temped to call it more of a trap Feat Chain outside of a few builds, (mostly ranged).

Scarab Sages

As pointed out by Owen, Greater Weapon of the Chosen really shines with Vital Strike. And as a Warpriest, you are in the unique position of having a lot of feats to grab but not a lot of BAB, so you are in many cases better off using Vital Strike than full attacking, as you can take the feats before your BAB would be high enough to get an iterative.

I'm thinking a Warpriest of Ragathiel or Feronia with an oversized bastard sword with Vital Strike and greater weapon of the chosen would be pretty sick. 4d8 damage with rolling twice to hit? yes please.


Imbicatus wrote:

As pointed out by Owen, Greater Weapon of the Chosen really shines with Vital Strike. And as a Warpriest, you are in the unique position of having a lot of feats to grab but not a lot of BAB, so you are in many cases better off using Vital Strike than full attacking, as you can take the feats before your BAB would be high enough to get an iterative.

I'm thinking a Warpriest of Ragathiel or Feronia with an oversized bastard sword with Vital Strike and greater weapon of the chosen would be pretty sick. 4d8 damage with rolling twice to hit? yes please.

I assume 4d8 is a typo, because 4d8 damage only averages out to 18. That's not super impressive.


Well, 4d8+modifiers is pretty good at lower levels.

Scarab Sages

At level six it's nice. It's also just the weapon damage, not counting STR or any other bonuses that are up, or the highly boosted chance to critically hit from rolling twice.


Eh, I guess. I'm just kind of biased against caring about damage dice because, save for when a character invests in vital strike, they just stop mattering after a while.


Though the -4 to-hit from using an oversized weapon is not so great. Better off as a Gorumite, probably.

Scarab Sages

It's only a -2 for oversize weapons. Easily offset by Divine Favor.


Considering you're using buffs to merely match a full BaB character to begin with, tacking an extra -2 on top of that just seems like a poor option.

With a Greatsword you lose about 2 damage, but gain an extra 2 to-hit, which is a better tradeoff.

Shadow Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:

As pointed out by Owen, Greater Weapon of the Chosen really shines with Vital Strike. And as a Warpriest, you are in the unique position of having a lot of feats to grab but not a lot of BAB, so you are in many cases better off using Vital Strike than full attacking, as you can take the feats before your BAB would be high enough to get an iterative.

I'm thinking a Warpriest of Ragathiel or Feronia with an oversized bastard sword with Vital Strike and greater weapon of the chosen would be pretty sick. 4d8 damage with rolling twice to hit? yes please.

Actually, the Extra Damage is based specifically on the Size of the Warpriest and their level, not the size of the Weapon. So you would not gain any benefit at all, as it seems 20th's 2d8 is max. Well, not any that any other class would not also get.

"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before
the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage."

1st level commoner with a large Bastard Sword = 2d8
1st-19th level Warpriest with a large Bastard Sword = 2d8 or less
20th level Warpriest with a large Bastard Sword = . . . 2d8

As for Greater Weapon of the Faithful, if it is indeed intended to work with Vital Strike, it needs to be errata'd. As written they are both Standard Actions, so would not work just like you can't combine Cleave and Vital Strike.

Making a Single Attack is a Standard Action. Each is done as a single attack as a Standard Action, and thus do not combine. So, again, it's a bit of a trap Feat Chain outside of some specific builds. It also can't be used with a Charge, (outside of Surprise Rounds).

Normal version allows you to treat you weapon as if magical for DR and Inorporeal (AS A SWIFT ACTION), and allows 1 reroll vs Concealment per round. Isn't limited to a Standard Action Attack, just one attack per round. (And so while a level 1 Warpriest can get this at level 1, they are probably going to have an actual magic weapon asap so they can start to add on magic properties as soon as possible.)

Improved version allows it to apply to all attacks in a round.

Greater has nothing to do with the others, and allows you to, as a Standard Action roll twice for one attack.

Scarab Sages

DM Beckett wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

As pointed out by Owen, Greater Weapon of the Chosen really shines with Vital Strike. And as a Warpriest, you are in the unique position of having a lot of feats to grab but not a lot of BAB, so you are in many cases better off using Vital Strike than full attacking, as you can take the feats before your BAB would be high enough to get an iterative.

I'm thinking a Warpriest of Ragathiel or Feronia with an oversized bastard sword with Vital Strike and greater weapon of the chosen would be pretty sick. 4d8 damage with rolling twice to hit? yes please.

Actually, the Extra Damage is based specifically on the Size of the Warpriest and their level, not the size of the Weapon. So you would not gain any benefit at all, as it seems 20th's 2d8 is max. Well, not any that any other class would not also get.

"Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table 1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before
the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or other weapons that only deal energy damage."

1st level commoner with a large Bastard Sword = 2d8
1st-19th level Warpriest with a large Bastard Sword = 2d8 or less
20th level Warpriest with a large Bastard Sword = . . . 2d8

As for Greater Weapon of the Faithful, if it is indeed intended to work with Vital Strike, it needs to be errata'd. As written they are both Standard Actions, so would not work just like you can't combine Cleave and Vital Strike.

Making a Single Attack is a Standard Action. Each is done as a singe attack as a Standard Action, and thus do not combine. So, again, it's a bit of a...

The scacred damage scaling is unimportant in this case.

And the Greater Weapon of the Chosen specifies "When you make a single attack as an attack action" which is the same language as vital strike. The reason vital strike doesn't work with charge or spring attack is because those are not attack actions, but a full round action that allows an attack. Vital Strike is an attack action, as is GWotC. They can be used together.

Shadow Lodge

No, it's because an Attack Action is a Standard Action. CRB page 182:

Standard Actions Most of the common actions characters take, aside from movement, fall into the realm of standard actions.
*Attack Making an attack is a standard action.

Some other attack allow you to replace normal attacks with them, while others are Attack/Standard Actions. For example, "Disarm: You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack."

Others you can not, like "Overrun: As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge, you can attempt to overrun your target, moving through its square."

Vital Strike Read: When you use the attack action (which is a Standard Action), you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage.

Greater Weapon has similar words. I am not going to copy it as I'm not sure it's cool to do so yet, but it also specifies it takes an Attack Action, (which is itself a Standard Action).

Scarab Sages

Per the Vital Strike FAQ:

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.

Quote:


Greater Weapon of the Chosen (Combat)
Your deity guides your hand when you fight with her
favored weapon.

Prerequisites: Improved Weapon of the Chosen†,
Weapon Focus with deity’s favored weapon, Weapon of
the Chosen†, worship and receive spells from a deity.

Benefit: When you use your deity’s favored weapon to
attempt a single attack with the attack action, you roll two
dice for your attack roll and take the higher result. You do
not need to use your Weapon of the Chosen feat to gain
this feat’s benefit.

Vital Strike is part of an attack action. Greater Weapon of the Chosen is an attack action. They can both be used.

Shadow Lodge

All your FAQ quote is saying is that Vital Strike uses an Attack Action, which is a Standard Action. I'm not saying you can combine a Standard Action with a Full Round Action. I'm saying both use a Standard Action, so can't be combined.

I'm thinking agree to disagree, and maybe we will get some errata/clarification at some point. In a home game, I'd allow it.

Scarab Sages

I'm saying greater weapon of the chosen isn't an action at all, it modifies the attack roll on a attack action. Since vital strike is explicitly an attack action, and it's attack roll is a single attack made as part of an attack action, Greater Weapon of the Chosen applies.


It sounds like you are at an impasse. I'm inclined to allow it, as well, regardless of how the rules really read. (I'm still waiting for my subscription to process. *sigh*)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
zergtitan wrote:


example 2: Does anyone know the weapon Shelyn favored before the age of darkness and her brothers fall into Zon-Kuthon? I mean before he fell and she took his glaive, she must have used something else.

My guess would be none, actually. Our standard assumptions are tied into the gaming setting which is present day. A story background however doesn't require that the rules are used the same the players do now. Shelyn's favored weapon is the glaive because she is a trustee of the weapon that corrupted her brother and she's trying to redeem it.

We don't have present gods without favored weapons because players would have a conniption fit, but there is nothing that says that you can't have gods of clerics that don't have a feature without any compensatory benefit from it.


Imbicatus wrote:
I'm saying greater weapon of the chosen isn't an action at all, it modifies the attack roll on a attack action. Since vital strike is explicitly an attack action, and it's attack roll is a single attack made as part of an attack action, Greater Weapon of the Chosen applies.

So, reading over the two feats, here were my two thoughts.

"What Imbicatus is saying makes sense and seems intuitive. He's probably right."

"'Attack actions' almost never work the way I think would in Pathfinder. He's probably wrong. "

Shadow Lodge

Well, as we can see with Lissala, the importance the faithful place in the "favored weapon" is only a small portion of it, as even deities without faithful still have a favored weapon. If it was primarily what the faithful believed/insisted, than Sarenrae would probably loose Scimitar very quickly.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm tempted to rekindle the "What would be the favourite weapon of Jesus Christ" debate. These are always fun!


So, after looking over the finished class, I can safely say that my assumptions of how it was going to turn out were 100% correct. Sadly.

Sacred Fist is pretty baller though.


Gorbacz wrote:
I'm tempted to rekindle the "What would be the favourite weapon of Jesus Christ" debate. These are always fun!

Everybody knows Jesus rocked his nine millie gat like a friggin' boss.

Scarab Sages

Major_Blackhart wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
I'm tempted to rekindle the "What would be the favourite weapon of Jesus Christ" debate. These are always fun!
Everybody knows Jesus rocked his nine millie gat like a friggin' boss.

Nah, he rocked the glaive from Krull Which I guess would be a Starknife in pathfinder.

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