Advanced Class Guide

There might be a non LG Paladin archetype in the book.

Or you could just toss alignments out the window, rename the Paladin "Holy Warrior" and let one exist for each religion. ;) Adjust one or two abilities in turn to suit their specific divinity.

Or you could just toss alignments out the window, rename the Paladin "Holy Warrior" and let one exist for each religion. ;) Adjust one or two abilities in turn to suit their specific divinity.

You mean a cleric?

Does sound familiar, doesn't it? ;)

Tangent101 wrote:

Or you could just toss alignments out the window, rename the Paladin "Holy Warrior" and let one exist for each religion. ;) Adjust one or two abilities in turn to suit their specific divinity.

You mean a cleric?

With very different abilities. We could ditch ranger and barbarian for fighter by that logic

More seriously, I actually customized the Paladin class for each God in my old AD&D world. The Paladins of Marashieb could heal and affect the Undead. The Paladins of Lantan detected lies and could force the truth out of someone. The Paladins of Surn would be able to smite their foes and had defensive abilities. And so on.

More seriously, I actually customized the Paladin class for each God in my old AD&D world. The Paladins of Marashieb could heal and affect the Undead. The Paladins of Lantan detected lies and could force the truth out of someone. The Paladins of Surn would be able to smite their foes and had defensive abilities. And so on.

That is how Paladins and Clerics should be.

In fact, in 2nd edition there were such Clerics. We were supposed to have them progress as the Druid, as it was a "specialty class", but we had them progress as normal (and there was no generic cleric).

It made clerics cool. It made people actually want to play one. :)

I have always viewed Paladins as the "holy warrior" of a deity, and we had Paladins for every deity. This could be done now, just having each deity have an Archetype.

Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous had Holy Warriors for every alignment, and it was updated to 3.5. At one time I started to convert it to Pathfinder and have my notes somewhere (I hope). I think that will be my fall season project.

-- david

Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous had Holy Warriors for every alignment, and it was updated to 3.5. At one time I started to convert it to Pathfinder and have my notes somewhere (I hope). I think that will be my fall season project.

-- david

Great book, and I loved how you could use their custom system and perfectly reproduce a standard Paladin, or any of many dozens of variations, based on the themes / domains / portfolios appropriate to the god chosen.

Unlike the somewhat generic normal Paladin, whose themes don't necessarily fit any of the settings gods (unless one of them is written up specifically as 'the Paladin god'), this was much more setting-friendly and thematic.

I also considered converting it, but it proved a more daunting task than I had anticipated, due to the changes to the PF Paladin and my own ADD. :)

Dennis Baker wrote:

Cheapy wrote:

I dunno, the war priest sounds pretty close to that. Especially if it happens to be full BAB. It's a holy warrior of any alignment.

I can't see any 6 or 9 level casting class having Full BAB. Particularly not if it has abilities other than casting. Not even if it's using the cleric spell list. It just doesn't make sense in terms of balance.

One big problem with BAB ¾ is the fact that so many feats that is useful for a Warpriest have a +1 BAB prereq. I’m thinking of feats like: Quick Draw, Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Cleave, Deadly Aim, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Step Up, etc.

This is one reason I don’t like BAB 3/4, but perhaps the Warpriest can pick those feats without meting the prereqs?

That would be cool, but it's already the same issues that the Cleric faces. So limited on feats, and for the combat ones, when they qualify, they are too far behind to really make them worth it a lot of the time.

I kind of hope this class is not a Paladin of any alignment, but instead a Warrior Priest. One that can be used to sort of play a paladin-like class that's not LG, ok, but the inference should certainly be on Cleric + Fighter, and not Paladin. Strong spellcasting rather than Mercy's or Auras. Part of me actually kind of wants it to be a "divine magus", as that's one archtype I've really wanted for a while.

I also considered converting it, but it proved a more daunting task than I had anticipated, due to the changes to the PF Paladin and my own ADD. :)

Yes, the Pathfinder Paladin got quite a boost from the 3.5 version, and adding stuff is what made me stop working on it, as well as the person I was doing it for left the group so the pressing need was no longer there.

-- david

mdt wrote:

Sword & Sorcery put out a supplement called Cityscape that had an Acrobat in it.

I always really loved the flavor of that class, but it was underpowered. :( I'd love to be able to redo it as a monk archetype. Basically it was a quarterstaff monk with some dancing dervish and bard flavor mixed in.

I think you're referring to the Fantasy Flight Games 3.0 sourcebook "City Works", written by Mike Mearls.

"Cityscape" was a Wizards of the Coast 3.5 product, and did not have such a class.

Yep, that was it. Sorry, didn't have it at hand when I posted.

Like I said, loved the flavor of the class, but it was very underpowered for 3.0, much less 3.5 or PF.

Sample Swashbuckler talent / stunt I'd like to see;

Fools Rush In (Ex) You can spend a point of chutzpah/moxie/panache to move up to your standard movement without provoking attacks of opportunity and ignoring the effects of difficult terrain, or any damaging effects or traps in any spaces between your starting and ending square. Was there a rope? A chandelier? A curtain or tapestry? Did you just bounce over the heads of the people in your way, stepping on their shoulders as if they were standing still? Doesn't matter. You did it, and you looked fabulous.

Or you could just toss alignments out the window, rename the Paladin "Holy Warrior" and let one exist for each religion. ;) Adjust one or two abilities in turn to suit their specific divinity.

I could but that'd require me to rework how a lot of spells work and change the Paladin's abilities (Detect and Smite, mostly) to be entirely non-alignment based.

As I'm already utilizing one big overhaul in this game (I made a Freeform Class Selection thingy and I'm trying it out), and want to see how balanced it is, it's not really an option CURRENTLY.

It'd be better if the devs did all the work for me. =)

I reeeeaally hope at least one of the four mystery-classes is a bard-crossover.

Tangent101 wrote:

Or you could just toss alignments out the window, rename the Paladin "Holy Warrior" and let one exist for each religion. ;) Adjust one or two abilities in turn to suit their specific divinity.

I could but that'd require me to rework how a lot of spells work and change the Paladin's abilities (Detect and Smite, mostly) to be entirely non-alignment based.

As I'm already utilizing one big overhaul in this game (I made a Freeform Class Selection thingy and I'm trying it out), and want to see how balanced it is, it's not really an option CURRENTLY.

It'd be better if the devs did all the work for me. =)

Lazy. ;)

I like where this is going, but not to be a spoil sport but, Jason, you really need to work on your naming conventions.

Bloodrager = great idea but terrible name. Please consider Marauder, Conqueror, or vanquisher. Something less fake compound word sounding.

Hunter = It sounds more like a warden.

Shaman and Slayer are ok.

Warpriest = Templar, crusader, champion or perhaps sentinel.

Swashbuckler = Normally just fine, but there is an archetype by that name. To avoid confusion consider buccaneer.

There I got it off my chest, otherwise I'm really looking forward to this one.

Buccaneer implies he uses a "Buccan"

^_^ nothing wrong with the name... its just that the object to which they owe their name is a green(Fresh from the tree) wood rack on which you cook a pig.

I am so happy to see a swashbuckler that isn't a rogue I'm probably going to buy a physical copy of this book (I have been on the all pdf plan since just after the ARG).

I must admit some curiosity as to if a beta-test will be done with these races like was done with the Mythic Rules. I know I'd be curious to beta-test a couple of the classes like the Swashbucker. Heck, it might be fun to create a test-group and run it through Wrath of the Righteous to see how they work out.

Every single new class that has come out since the Core Rulebook got a playtest. Well, as did all of the classes in the Core Rulebook.

Did Adept get a playtest?

They stated a playtest would be coming this fall...whenever they realized the mythic playtest might be a good clue for when the Advanced Class Guide playtest will be held.

Did Adept get a playtest?

It's not new. :p

Did Adept get a playtest?

of course he has one... did u missed that one?

A monk/cleric mash up has some interesting possibilities for me. Or ... A barbarian monk. The "raging monk". Heh.

A monk/cleric mash up has some interesting possibilities for me. Or ... A barbarian monk. The "raging monk". Heh.

"Torq grew up an orphan in a monastery. Monks told Torq to find inner peace. Torq did find his inner peace, and it made Torq MAD!"

deuxhero wrote:

Did Adept get a playtest?

It's not new. :p

Only Pathfinder Chronicler was new in the core book.

Actually, was that in the playtest?

how about an Artificer class

Cheapy wrote:

deuxhero wrote:

Did Adept get a playtest?

It's not new. :p

Only Pathfinder Chronicler was new in the core book.

Actually, was that in the playtest?

Stop poking holes in my under qualified statements :)

- Mythic waitress going adventuring with the rest of an adventuring party and whacking things with a frying pan through most of the story. I guess it would be more fitting if she hit things with knives, forks and spoons. Perhaps she dishes out damage with the dishes, but most likely she use her serving tray.

But I'm the waitress, not Stab Girl, not the Murderer!

Arssanguinus wrote:

A monk/cleric mash up has some interesting possibilities for me. Or ... A barbarian monk. The "raging monk". Heh.

"Torq grew up an orphan in a monastery. Monks told Torq to find inner peace. Torq did find his inner peace, and it made Torq MAD!"

"That's my secret cap. I'm always angry."

Wow! Two MCA props in a row, and from Mythic posters. I had to call out my Advanced avatar for this one...

It's a grey area, but you can definitely enlarge your eidolon from first level due to a special exemption in the targeting rules for eidolons.

Now, there's still the matter of the mount evolution, which my GM takes to mean that the creature is "well-suited as a mount" and thereby waives the -5 penalty to ride checks for ill-suitedness.

Now, that's still a 1-round windup before you can use your mount. It's a hefty price to pay, but worth it, IMO, for the coolness. There is a multiclass archetype that helps make this a little better, but I like doing it by RAW.

[Emphasis mine]

Cheapy wrote:

Mythic +10 Artifact Toaster wrote:

I be interested to see what they vould do with a nature based alchemist. Hello pumpkin bombs.

There's the Bramble Brewer half-elven archetype!

I love that archetype, I just want to see it taken a step further...AND I want a Pumpkin leshy familiar. Is that too much too ask? There was an MCA that took that concept on, but a Paizo official version just sounds groovy.

[Emphasis mine]

There were two ways to build new classes in Pathfinder. Either you take an existing class and swap out features from another with unqiue flavoring. This is how we got the Samurai and Ninja. And the Antipaladin basicaly. Alternative Classes.

Then there is archtypes.

This sounds like more of the former.

And the Warpriest and Swashbuckler, and maybe the Archanist have my attention.

I hope there is a "blast it with magic" class, like the Warlock was.

It was always a good option for those players who have poor system mastery, and just want to kill things with magic.

I hope the Arcanist is a wisdom-based caster. "Wizard" does mean "Wise man" after all.

I hope the Arcanist is an intelligence based caster.

I hope we will get archetypes for all classes not just the new ones.

I hope the Shaman is a charisma based spontaneous caster with the druid spell list.

I hope for new prestige classes like the dragon disciple but for other sorcerer bloodlines such as fey, celestial, etc..

I hope for bloodline feats, some for all classes, and some for sorcerers only.

I hope for polymorph spells that will allow us the forms of fey, outsiders, constructs, and oozes.

I hope they change the name of the Warpriest to Templar or Crusader.

I hope they come up with a better name then Bloodrager.

I hope for a full base attack bonus non-spellcaster shapeshifter class.

I hope there will be some new sorcerer bloodlines, oracle mysteries, and more.

I hope for a mute oracle curse that is complete.

I hope for rules for unarmored character options.

I hope for an Engineer/Inventor/gadget using class.

I hope for a Ranger/Monk Tarzan/Jungle Girl type class.

I hope for a Beastmaster type class with a magical beast version animal companion maybe a Fighter/Druid or fighter/summoner with no spell casting.

I hope for a magical girl class, maybe a magus/summoner or magus/oracle.

I hope that if the Shaman uses the witch spell list they call it a Wicca or Witchdoctor.

I hope for a class that creates weapons out of magical energy, elemental forces, or force.

I hope for a rouge/sorcerer class with illusion, divination, abjuration, and transmutation spells.

I hope I like this book at least close to how much I liked Advanced Players Guide and Advanced Races Guide.

What's a magical girl class?

What's a magical girl class?

I'm curious about that myself. All I can think of is magical girl anime like Sailor Moon etc.

It's a girl who goes naked into battle, sort of like the Barbarian/Sorceress in Gluttony's Runelords game. =^-^=

Depends on wich version, not all of them go naked for there transformations, not all them fight evil though that would be a useful in this game. Though I would like it to be a d8HD, bard spell progression, two good saves(ref, will), 4-6 skill points/level. I could see them getting the ability to "transform"(or summon) a different costume(s) with abilities related. Maybe even chosen during character creation that determines your abilities and theme. I would prefer healing/ curative, some light based and good aligned based spells, some abjuration and boosting spells, and some extra spells known based on theme. Maybe stat boost and other buffs for there transformation wich would last like rage or bardic music limited use mechanics. Some "themes" could be healing, light, fire, water, air, lightning, earth, ice, time, plant, animal, purity, dragons, illusions, taro etc..

Examples of magical girls
Sailor Moon
Rainbow Brite
Jem(kinda but tech based)
Cutey Honey(Android version)
Cardcaptor Sakura
W.i.t.c.h.
Devil Hunter Yoko
She-ra
Princess Tutu

It's a girl who goes naked into battle, sort of like the Barbarian/Sorceress in Gluttony's Runelords game. =^-^=

...yea, probably leave that one for the 3pps...

Why is it called "magical girl" though? Why can't it be "magical person-of-no-fixed-gender-if-gendered-at-all"? Just curious - if it's an anime trope then I guess I understand. ;P

Why is it called "magical girl" though? Why can't it be "magical person-of-no-fixed-gender-if-gendered-at-all"? Just curious - if it's an anime trope then I guess I understand. ;P

Yeah, looks like I was on the money. It's an anime trope. Think Sailor Moon, Magic Knight Rayearth, all that sort of stuff.

I hope we will get archetypes for all classes not just the new ones.

My understanding is that while perhaps not all existing classes will get archetypes (I can't recall if they said all or not) they are providing archetypes for existing classes to take advantage of the shiny-shiny new mechanics presented in the new hybrids. Yeehaaa!

I hope I like this book at least close to how much I liked Advanced Players Guide and Advanced Races Guide.

This of all your hopes is really the only one I can get on board with. As for the rest, I just hope they are creative and enjoyable. If you have a sacred cow, eat it. Life is much better without it. ;P

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Why is it called "magical girl" though? Why can't it be "magical person-of-no-fixed-gender-if-gendered-at-all"? Just curious - if it's an anime trope then I guess I understand. ;P

Yeah, looks like I was on the money. It's an anime trope. Think Sailor Moon, Magic Knight Rayearth, all that sort of stuff.

Yep.

Tinkergoth wrote:

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Why is it called "magical girl" though? Why can't it be "magical person-of-no-fixed-gender-if-gendered-at-all"? Just curious - if it's an anime trope then I guess I understand. ;P

Yeah, looks like I was on the money. It's an anime trope. Think Sailor Moon, Magic Knight Rayearth, all that sort of stuff.

Yep.

While it might be dangerous to consult Thundarr-is-a-PFRPG-character-pedia....
Wikipedia on Magical Girls

Never really watched a lot of the Magical Girl anime stuff when I was a kid. Much preferred stuff like Tekkaman Blade.

I can't really see us getting a class with that sort of concept in this book though. Not that I dislike the idea particularly, but I don't really see it happening. That said, I'm sure there's a 3PP out there somewhere who'll be all over that idea like me on a bowl trifle (and by bowl, I mean the bowl the whole damn thing was made in, not a tiny bowl for a single serving. I sure do love me some trifle).

More technically, the magical girl genre started with the U.S. television show Bewitched, so basically the Witch class is already a Magical Girl/Boy class. ;)

Cheapy wrote:

What's a magical girl class?

I'm curious about that myself. All I can think of is magical girl anime like Sailor Moon etc.

Power Rangers about to begin developing breasts?

More technically, the magical girl genre started with the U.S. television show Bewitched, so basically the Witch class is already a Magical Girl/Boy class. ;)

Wut? No, it predates Bewitched by a decade. (At least in Manga form)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Knight

Or at least 2-3 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himitsu_no_Akko-chan

Both came out long before there was Sally The Witch inspired by BeWitched.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_the_Witch

I really don't like the idea of calling the Warpriest class Crusader or Templar, those have far too many negative connotations for me.