Advanced Class Guide

I would much rather have new classes especially ones that fill a niche(or trope) that I have been looking for. This book might fill some of those but I never liked multi-classing and am fine the way things work now.

Of the two, Id rather see a book that helps multiclassing, but I still want to see where this one goes, too.

Add me to the camp of "I wish they'd just fixed multiclassing instead." Yes, I understand they need to sell new books, but imagine the following: instead of a new base class for every conceivable multiclass combination in the world, we have some general multiclassing guidelines that actually work, and then additional books full of "Class Synergy Features" that would work like favored class bonuses -- but would be specific to multiclass combinations. E.g., "Spell Combat (Ex): If you have at least X levels in fighter and Y levels in wizard or sorcerer, you can..." Stuff like that would allow the "kewl new mechanics," but would (a) make naming conventions a lot easier (no need for new base class names), (b) retain some semblance of a reason for having multiclassing rules in the first place, and (c) neatly balance the "favored class" bonuses with an equivalent "favored multiclass" bonus. It would also make designing new combinations a lot simpler, and it still allows Paizo to churn out book after book of new multiclass features!

Ah, well, too late now.

Not necessarily "too late now." I don't know if Paizo would do that, but it seems like you could add that idea to the current system. It might contribute to some redundancy but you'd probably also still be able to build some pretty unique characters.

I know what you're really getting at is having fewer base classes and then having multiclasses fill things out but you could probably to some extent still have the "class synergy" idea in the current system.

Would actually be a neat project for a 3rd party to do for the time being.

i apologize if i missed the answer to this somewhere in this thread, but has there been any announcement on when 'this fall' the playtest(s) will be?

i apologize if i missed the answer to this somewhere in this thread, but has there been any announcement on when 'this fall' the playtest(s) will be?

Not that I know of. If it goes similarly to last year's Mythic playtest, maybe November?

Odraude wrote:

Schrodinger's Wizard is also the concept that a wizard will always just so happen to have the spell he needs. Which usually means the player is cheating and just casting out of his spellbook, and not actually preparing a full list :D

In practice Schrodinger's wizard is primarily a messageboard fallacy. Whenever a situation is presented that should challenge a wizard, the other poster will then claim the wizard just casts X and wins automatically. I've never seen it used in an actual game. The closest I saw was a wizard I saw played back in 2E, and most of his power came from a heavy aversion to the standard battle-magic that was common back then. It made it harder for the DM to adapt. Additionally, he was in a party with a fighter/wizard, so there were more slots to distribute towards rarely used spells.

We had a couple wizard (and Cleric and Druid) players who always seemed to have the spell they needed.

Oddly, when the GM declared you had to hand over your spell list before play, they stopped having the perfect spell memorized.

It was weird...

Their spell list wasn't determined until it was observed? Crazy!

We had a couple wizard (and Cleric and Druid) players who always seemed to have the spell they needed.

Oddly, when the GM declared you had to hand over your spell list before play, they stopped having the perfect spell memorized.

It was weird...

It amazes me how many people feel they need to cheat in tabletop roleplaying games. It seems self-defeating to me. The whole point of the dice is to provide a sense of excitement of the unknown, to create chance. The whole point of the rules is to put everyone on equal footing, put them all on the same page. Take these away and you are basically left with cooperative story telling.

If that's what you wanted, then what are you roleplaying?

Just never made sense to me. (And yes, I've had a few "false rollers" in my games over the years.)

ciretose wrote:

We had a couple wizard (and Cleric and Druid) players who always seemed to have the spell they needed.

Oddly, when the GM declared you had to hand over your spell list before play, they stopped having the perfect spell memorized.

It was weird...

It amazes me how many people feel they need to cheat in tabletop roleplaying games. It seems self-defeating to me.

In their defense, it was usually in tight spots to save the party rather than showboating how awesome they are.

An evil act with good intent.

When the house rule was added, no one protested. But we did start being a lot more cautious as a party.

Be a soulknife!

Truthfully, I would like to see a Soulknife that didn't use the wonky Psionic rules that clearly didn't work well with the rest of D20. Mana and Spellpoints should be in another RPG, not this one.

I was very disappointed with the re-interduction of it in the current edition of our favorite game, with very little that worked well with the overall set up that came before it. (The classes ends up being spammers that keep the same spells throughout the life of the character)

I think Psionics can be a very good alternative power source in Pathfinder, just not with the wonky Psi point mechanic.

Hm. I really like the Psionics rules Dreamscarred Press put out, but I guess as with most things, YMMV.

Truthfully, I would like to see a Soulknife that didn't use the wonky Psionic rules that clearly didn't work well with the rest of D20. Mana and Spellpoints should be in another RPG, not this one.

...er, can you point out where the Soulknife uses power points? In either edition?

thaX wrote:

Truthfully, I would like to see a Soulknife that didn't use the wonky Psionic rules that clearly didn't work well with the rest of D20. Mana and Spellpoints should be in another RPG, not this one.

...er, can you point out where the Soulknife uses power points? In either edition?

Well, to be fair, there's an archetype (Gifted Blade) that gives him 4th level Psionic powers.

Okay. So that means the one that doesn't use psionics rules is the standard one, right?

Not that I know of. If it goes similarly to last year's Mythic playtest, maybe November?

It is Fall where I live, the leaves are changing and will soon be falling. Also it is only 4 weeks ago that this blog was put up so who knows when it will come out but Bullman and Mona are from Wisconsin and Minnesota so they should know that November is actually Winter and Fall ends in October.

However, I'm not sure how much design work they had time for between the Summer Conventions to get material play test ready and it has only been about a month since Gencon. Then there is the week or two after Gencon to sleep, recover, catch up on daily stuff and then process all that happened. I would not be surprised if they are just feeling like they have their heads above water again and can take a vacation :)

So hopefully we'll see it before November.

DeathQuaker wrote:

Not that I know of. If it goes similarly to last year's Mythic playtest, maybe November?

It is Fall where I live, the leaves are changing and will soon be falling. Also it is only 4 weeks ago that this blog was put up so who knows when it will come out but Bullman and Mona are from Wisconsin and Minnesota so they should know that November is actually Winter and Fall ends in October.

However, I'm not sure how much design work they had time for between the Summer Conventions to get material play test ready and it has only been about a month since Gencon. Then there is the week or two after Gencon to sleep, recover, catch up on daily stuff and then process all that happened. I would not be surprised if they are just feeling like they have their heads above water again and can take a vacation :)

So hopefully we'll see it before November.

Actually, it is still summer time in the northern hemisphere until Sunday. And 75% of December is actually autumn, and winter doesn't begin until 2 days or so before Christmas. Halloween isn't the last day of autumn.

So, being a "fall release" for the playtest, that means the earliest would be this Sunday, and the latest would be a few days before Christmas. Any time during those 90 days they could release the playtest and not have lied about a fall release for the playtest.

I am curious what the other 3 - 4 classes will be.

I think they may have been using 'fall' colloquially, rather than literally.

I think they may have been using 'fall' colloquially, rather than literally.

I sense a SAI (Season as Intended) vs. SAW (Season as Written) argument brewing...

:P

Golo wrote:

DeathQuaker wrote:

Not that I know of. If it goes similarly to last year's Mythic playtest, maybe November?

It is Fall where I live, the leaves are changing and will soon be falling. Also it is only 4 weeks ago that this blog was put up so who knows when it will come out but Bullman and Mona are from Wisconsin and Minnesota so they should know that November is actually Winter and Fall ends in October.

However, I'm not sure how much design work they had time for between the Summer Conventions to get material play test ready and it has only been about a month since Gencon. Then there is the week or two after Gencon to sleep, recover, catch up on daily stuff and then process all that happened. I would not be surprised if they are just feeling like they have their heads above water again and can take a vacation :)

So hopefully we'll see it before November.

Actually, it is still summer time in the northern hemisphere until Sunday. And 75% of December is actually autumn, and winter doesn't begin until 2 days or so before Christmas. Halloween isn't the last day of autumn.

So, being a "fall release" for the playtest, that means the earliest would be this Sunday, and the latest would be a few days before Christmas. Any time during those 90 days they could release the playtest and not have lied about a fall release for the playtest.

I am curious what the other 3 - 4 classes will be.

Try living in Florida, where Fall for us essentially starts in December.

Then again, we have three seasons. Summer, Hurricane, and February. :D

There's also the two weeks of "Winter" (rainy, cold, and miserable).

We call that February ;)

And November and the 3 days of December around Christmas. =)

I thought our seaons were Fire, Hurricane, Summer, Hotter/Muggier Summer, and Winter/Februrary.

The season of Fire is a cheerful time when they won't let you set off fireworks.

Better than the four seasons in New Orleans.

Rainy HOT
Rainy HOT HUMID (AKA Early Hurricane Season)
Rainy COLD (AKA Late Hurricane Season)
Rainy Mardigras

Or the four seasons in Duluth, Minnesota...

Spring (last two weeks in July)
Summer (August 1st)
Fall (first two weeks in August)
Winter (the rest of the year)

My wife's sister-in-law lives there.

Back on topic, I've been pondering the lack of Arcane options (beyond Bloodrager). I wonder. What if there is a Arcane Shifter class that takes ques from Druid but focused on Alterself and Polymoph?

Back on topic, I've been pondering the lack of Arcane options (beyond Bloodrager). I wonder. What if there is a Arcane Shifter class that takes ques from Druid but focused on Alterself and Polymoph?

Well, there are 2 arcane classes: Bloodrager (barbarian sorcerer) and Arcanist (wizard sorcerer). Warpriest is obviously divine, but what about Shaman? I am going to assume a divine hexer. Not sure if the Hunter will have any sort of spellcasting abilities, since it is part druid.

I think a monk/paladin mix would be interesting. Will they have a class based on alchemist or summoner?

Will they have a class based on alchemist or summoner?

They should have a class based on the alchemist and the summoner.

As pointed out above by several other posters, an alchemist/summoner hybrid could make a great artificer class. It could have inventions that work like extracts and a construct servant that resembles an eidolon.

DeathQuaker wrote:

Not that I know of. If it goes similarly to last year's Mythic playtest, maybe November?

It is Fall where I live, the leaves are changing and will soon be falling. Also it is only 4 weeks ago that this blog was put up so who knows when it will come out but Bullman and Mona are from Wisconsin and Minnesota so they should know that November is actually Winter and Fall ends in October.

However, I'm not sure how much design work they had time for between the Summer Conventions to get material play test ready and it has only been about a month since Gencon. Then there is the week or two after Gencon to sleep, recover, catch up on daily stuff and then process all that happened. I would not be surprised if they are just feeling like they have their heads above water again and can take a vacation :)

So hopefully we'll see it before November.

More or less officially, the autumn months in the northern hemisphere are September, October, and November, regardless of the weather you personally experience where you live. :) (Alternately you can go by the solstices and equinoxes as another poster suggested, which means fall starts around Saturday and ends around December 21. The position of the Earth in relation to the sun seems like a reasonable metric IMO.)

I'll stick by my guess of November until we have more information, based on the following, non-weather-related basis:

- The Mythic Playtest Began in November
- Mythic Adventures came out at GenCon
- The Advanced Class Guide is slated to come out at GenCon
- Ergo, the Advanced Class Guide is probably roughly on a similar production schedule to Mythic Adventures

Of course if it does come out earlier I shall be delighted to be wrong. :)

At the same time, I am not going to set expectations I am bound to be disappointed by.

Where I live in upstate NY we have 4 seasons.

Cold
Damn Cold
Mud
Road Work

I really wonder what the "theme" of an Arcanist is going to be.

Wizards are individuals who master arcane magic through intense study.

Sorcerers are people whose magic is derived from a magic bloodline.

So what exactly is an Arcanist?

There are two seasons, no matter where you live: Winter, and Road Construction. Sometimes the latter moves into the former, or is ongoing when the former begins. (Those places without an effective Winter only have Road Construction Season instead.)

I would truly love to see an Artificer class for making clockwork minions. It would be... cool. And steampunkish!

Adjule wrote:

Will they have a class based on alchemist or summoner?

They should have a class based on the alchemist and the summoner.

As pointed out above by several other posters, an alchemist/summoner hybrid could make a great artificer class. It could have inventions that work like extracts and a construct servant that resembles an eidolon.

I had seen that suggesstion, and completely agree with such a thing. I had made an attempt at making a construct version of the summoner class. My brain wasn't wanting to work properly when I tried, so I stopped. I would love if such a thing would happen, as I would probably play it most. But I won'tbe holding my breath on it coming in Advanced Class Guide.

Where I live in upstate NY we have 4 seasons.

Cold
Damn Cold
Mud
Road Work

That sounds about right for Central NY where I'm at.

I'm looking forward to seeing the Hunter class among other things.

I would love a Summoner/Alchemist combo that bonds to a suit of armor and or a weapon. Have those be customizable like an Eidolon but powered by the awesomeness of alchemy. Give them some extracts, throw anything like an alchemist, and a new SLA to summon things like a Summoner but more fitting to weapons and armor.

When will we be hearing about the remaining four classes?

There are two seasons, no matter where you live: Winter, and Road Construction. Sometimes the latter moves into the former, or is ongoing when the former begins. (Those places without an effective Winter only have Road Construction Season instead.)

I would truly love to see an Artificer class for making clockwork minions. It would be... cool. And steampunkish!

There is no true winter in Florida. Road construction is year round.

Yes and an artificer would make a great companion to the Gunslinger and Numeria setting.

I am hoping for a "Rune Warrior" class like the Runecaster from the 2e AD&D Viking Campaign and Forgotten Realms Giantcraft books or the Runeblade from The Book of Experimental Might from Malhavoc Press. There are no spells, just runes for scribing on things and locations, martial weapon proficiency, and a full BAB progression. I really hope a Runecaster/Runeblade-type class is one of the remaining classes.

When will we be hearing about the remaining four classes?

I'm pretty sure at the latest when the playtest starts (unless they decide to do that one in more phases than usual). Which can't be that far away, if they want to keep it having started in "fall" of this year. Of course with Paizo's insane workload, schedules can and have slipped in the past, so who knows?

I'd rather have one unique class like the artificer/inventor than these 10 ''new'' ones.

I'd rather have one unique class like the artificer/inventor than these 10 ''new'' ones.

I can't favorite this post hard enough.

I'm kind of confused why everybody thinks these classes aren't unique just because they're hybrids.

The Magus is a hybrid of the Fighter and Wizard classes. Can you really tell me it's not unique as compared to the other classes?

People are way too much into pre-judging things, without having even seen them.

People are way too much into pre-judging things, without having even seen them.

This is the internet, that's part of what happens here.

magnuskn wrote:

People are way too much into pre-judging things, without having even seen them.

This is the internet, that's part of what happens here.

FTFY. ;-)

Doesn't make it smart behaviour.

Some people have to watch an entire program or read an entire book before coming to the conclusion that they didn't like it and have wasted two hours of their life. Others can tell from the previews or the jacket blurb that it's not going to be their cup of tea, and that they would rather spend their time and money elsewhere.

Doesn't make it dumb behavior, either, to be able to decide whether or not something smells good or bad before putting it in your mouth.

I've decided that I like the idea, without even seeing the finished product. I don't consider that any more or less irrational or 'dumb' or 'smart' than if I'd decided that I didn't like the idea...

I agree with Set. Some people will not like the idea of this book enough—either because it differs with their philosophy of gaming or are afraid that this indicates rules bloat—to not bother with it. Which is cool. These are optional rules after all.

Now if the same people start trying to say that those of us looking forward to the book are wrong, then I would object to that statement. But no one here seems to be doing that: those who are negative are expressing their disappointment with the concept of the book from their perspective.

I'm kind of confused why everybody thinks these classes aren't unique just because they're hybrids.

The Magus is a hybrid of the Fighter and Wizard classes. Can you really tell me it's not unique as compared to the other classes?

My issue isn't with the uniqueness of the magus. Uniqueness is overrated.

My issue with the magus are:

1. That it largely fails to do what it was made to do (make a gish) while...
2. Adding somewhat complicated new mechanics to the game that...

3. Mean all interactions/feats/spells in the future have to now consider how it might be abused by spells combat such as...

4. Dervish dance would probably not have happened post-magus, because it makes a single option for a single class so much better than other options that it becomes "the" option. Which is bad for any class.

Conversely, I think the Inquisitor largely got it right.

The Inquisitor is kind of a Bard/Ranger/Cleric. It has new features, but not new mechanics that cause interactions problems. Judgement are bonuses, so is bane, monster lore...nothing "new", nothing untested, but definitely a different option than what exists.

The Magus isn't "Bad". It's just not particularly good as a class. There aren't a lot of different kinds of Magus running around, as a GM when you have a Magus you have to make sure you understand this new mechanic that is very different than any other class...and it still isn't a particularly good gish.

They could have made a variant Ranger with divine spells, and that would have been much more Gish like (Full BaB with limited spell selection) but instead they tried to get to fancy and complex.

Simple is better.

Playtest might start before November, because If we look back to the Advanced Race Guide, it's playtest was released on October 4th 2011. I'd say the two benchmarks for the ACG playtest release would be approximately between beginning of October to mid-November. Either way, it will come out eventually!