Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play: Double-Take

Monday, July 29, 2013

In another week we will see the newest version of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, the document that lays out the baseline rules, assumptions, and adjustments for playing in the organized play campaign. Over the past few months, whether by podcast, convention panel, or cryptic response to a forum post, Mike and I have hinted at many of the updates. By now, for example, practically everyone knows about the disappearance of the Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge. The new format for Pathfinder Tales novel boons has been available for download for several months. We even spoiled the new system for wealth and "playing up" during a panel at PaizoCon a few weeks ago. There is, however, at least one thing that we have not teased: Replay.

Already I can hear the hissed intake of breath from some worried readers. We've read, heard, and sometimes even personally made the argument that replay opens the door to myriad forms of abuse. I agree that unlimited replay of more than just Tier 1 scenarios and Tier 1-2 modules would be disruptive. I still remember meeting a Pathfinder Society player who proudly boasted that he and his group had just run through The Godsmouth Heresy six times in the course of a weekend simply to level-grind a host of characters to 2nd level. Campaign leadership has been very careful in exploring replay so that we might avoid classic pitfalls.

What tipped the balance for us was realizing that replay might also address an ongoing push to expand rewards for GMs who have dedicated their time to the campaign. In my estimation, most GMs who have at least one star have had to "eat" a scenario by preparing and GMing it before having the chance to play it. In my experience, those who habitually GM for organized play also have considerable practice when it comes to suppressing personal knowledge. In my time as a volunteer and employee, I find that those who GM first and play later are also among the most dedicated to wanting the whole group to have fun and enjoy experiencing a scenario without spoilers. That got the gears turning.

When Version 5.0 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play goes live, campaign participants who have been recognized for their efforts as a GM by receiving GM stars will be able to replay or "re-GM" a limited number of scenarios—specifically one scenario for each star earned. In this way a participant may earn a third Chronicle sheet from a given scenario: one for playing, one for GMing, and one for either playing or GMing that scenario a second time. No character may ever have two of the same Chronicle sheet, so one must apply each sheet to a different character each time. When earning a third Chronicle in this way, the GM should write "GM Star Replay Credit" on the Chronicle sheet.

Let's say you're a two-star GM—thank you for your help, by the way. You can now replay or re-GM (for credit, that is) two scenarios once each. Perhaps you thought Pathfinder Society Scenario #3–14159: Death by Pie was amazing when you played it the first time, but you are sad to have missed the opportunity to play it with your pastry totem barbarian who took the mathematical prodigy trait. You replay it for credit using one of your replay credits, and now you have one replay left. If you later use that to replay #5–513: The Doppelganger's Prey, you are now out of replays until you earn that third star. Only then would you be able to replay #4–117: All the Doors are Trapped for credit.

At this time, the Guide does not say anything about gaining more replay credits each season. For now that's alright by me; let's see how this works for one season before making promises about what will happen a year from now. As many as five replays won't be enough to make a character completely unbalanced. Instead I envision this being for those who have played/GMed almost everything, managed tables for most of a convention, and saved the last slot to just play.

There may be other rewards tied to GM ties in the Guide, but we'll just have to wait to see those when the new document goes live next week.


Amiri and Ezren are both replaying the scenario pictured above, and our iconic barbarian is trying to remind the wizard not to spoil what's about to happen next for the other players. Ezren is just aghast that all of the other characters put on the masks without first discovering the black lotus extract smeared on the interiors. What a great (nonexistent) scenario...

John Compton and Mike Brock
Developer and Campaign Coordinator

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Tags: Pathfinder Society
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Shadow Lodge 4/5

SCPRedMage wrote:
Bring cookies.

Cookies make everything better.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

13 people marked this as a favorite.

I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

4/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I posted this elsewhere, but I've started doing quick, mini self-audits at the tables I run. I've only tried it once so far, but it went well enough that I'm planning to do it whenever I can from now on:

Before the game, while you're setting up, hand each of the players a notecard. Ask them them to put the following on the card (may want to include an example for them to follow):

  • Character name
  • PFS # (as a backup for my signup sheet)
  • AC breakdown (source of any bonuses and total, including any planned buffs like Mage Armor)
  • Highest Attack Breakdown (all bonuses and total) or Highest Spell DC Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Highest Skill Check Bonus Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Most Expensive item they own

The players get the chance to correct any mistakes as they're adding stuff up, hopefully avoiding the delay and awkwardness of you having to do it later.

The players are doing the work, so you only need to take a few seconds looking through each card. You can make sure all the bonuses make sense and that they aren't stacking Deflection bonuses, etc.

Finally you look at their most expensive item, look at the Fame table, and ask them how much Fame they have.

You also now have a card that tells you the highest totals they can get (barring any additional buffs) so if a Skill Check comes in at 45, you can verify that.

Shadow Lodge

Michael Brock wrote:
I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

Oh, I will, but not because YOU told me to! :P

5/5

Peet wrote:
Garble Facechomper wrote:
All the pie is mine! Kingdom of Zog will have all the pie in the world!

You mean Albania?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zog_of_Albania

No! This Zog!

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

John & Mike wrote:
(last sentence in the blog post) There may be other rewards tied to GM ties in the Guide, ...

GM ties? Is this a new dress code expected at the table?

Silver Crusade 2/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
redward wrote:
Before the game, while you're setting up, hand each of the players a notecard. Ask them them to put the following on the card (may want to include an example for them to follow):
  • Character name
  • PFS # (as a backup for my signup sheet)
  • AC breakdown (source of any bonuses and total, including any planned buffs like Mage Armor)
  • Highest Attack Breakdown (all bonuses and total) or Highest Spell DC Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Highest Skill Check Bonus Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Most Expensive item they own

Self-audit practice time!

Spoiler:

Armor Class
10 base
2 DEX
9 armor (+3 mithral breastplate)
4 shield (+3 buckler)
2 natural armor (Armor of the Pit feat)
1 enhancement bonus to natural armor (amulet)
1 deflection (ring of protection)
1 luck (jingasa of the forunate soldier)
----------------
30 total
+2 (shield of faith, actually +3 but doesn't stack w/ ring)
----------------
32 while buffed

Highest Attack
That's my +1 longsword:
+6 BAB (8th-level cleric)
+4 STR (3 base, 1 belt)
+1 enhancement (+1 longsword)
+2 morale (heroism, either as domain spell or domain aura)
+2 luck (divine favor, cast round 1 of most fights)
----------------
+15 total (most of the time)

Highest Skill Bonus
Diplomacy:
+6 (ranks)
+3 (class skill)
+8 (Touch of Glory domain ability, if used)
----------------
+17 total, or +9 without ToG (in which case Kn[planes] is highest)

Most Expensive Item Owned
Pretty sure that's the +3 mithral breastplate at 13,200gp. Anyone know the Fame needed for that? I can't finish my self-audit without knowing. :(

Silver Crusade 4/5

John Francis wrote:
John & Mike wrote:
(last sentence in the blog post) There may be other rewards tied to GM ties in the Guide, ...

GM ties? Is this a new dress code expected at the table?

I'll only wear a tie at the table if it has a Pathfinder goblin on it.

5/5 *

Michael Brock wrote:
I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

OOOh AWESOME! Thanks Mike! There is a level of Thornkeep I want vengeance on as well.


Fromper wrote:
I'll only wear a tie at the table if it has a Pathfinder goblin on it.

I would buy one of those!

Grand Lodge 4/5

I'd rock a goblin tie at the table. Not sure how well it would go with the PFS t-shirts however.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Goblin Tie, would be bought by me for sure.

1/5 **

TriOmegaZero wrote:
What you need to do is involve all the players in the audit. Have every player pass their character sheet and chronicles to the next player, and then tell them what to look for. This allows them to learn what they need to be looking for on their own sheets, and get to know who they are sitting with if they are at a con or gameday with strangers.

Wow, that's a really good idea.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Which means I obviously stole it from someone smarter than me. :)

1/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas, the Tiefling Hero! wrote:
redward wrote:
Before the game, while you're setting up, hand each of the players a notecard. Ask them them to put the following on the card (may want to include an example for them to follow):
  • Character name
  • PFS # (as a backup for my signup sheet)
  • AC breakdown (source of any bonuses and total, including any planned buffs like Mage Armor)
  • Highest Attack Breakdown (all bonuses and total) or Highest Spell DC Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Highest Skill Check Bonus Breakdown (all bonuses and total)
  • Most Expensive item they own

Self-audit practice time!

** spoiler omitted **

Self-audit

Spoiler:

10 Base
0 Dex
0 Armor
0 Natural Armor
0 Deflection
0 Dodge
-----------
10 Total

Wow, that was easy! Wait...did you mean my character? ;-)

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Michael Brock wrote:
I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

Thank you.

Sovereign Court 5/5

TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'd rock a goblin tie at the table. Not sure how well it would go with the PFS t-shirts however.

maybe if it was a clip-on?

Silver Crusade 4/5

Todd Lower wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'd rock a goblin tie at the table. Not sure how well it would go with the PFS t-shirts however.
maybe if it was a clip-on?

For the sake of the tie, I'd be willing to wear a shirt with a collar to a game day or convention. As long as the tie is good for a reroll, that is. :D

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Fromper wrote:
Todd Lower wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I'd rock a goblin tie at the table. Not sure how well it would go with the PFS t-shirts however.
maybe if it was a clip-on?
For the sake of the tie, I'd be willing to wear a shirt with a collar to a game day or convention. As long as the tie is good for a reroll, that is. :D

Someone in my local group showed up to the last game day with a custom-printed PFS tie with the local lodge's logo on it.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I am glad to see some replay begin to be available, however for me it is probably to late. I have had a lot of fun with PFS for the past year but I am down to less then 10 senarios I can still play in. In that time I have also managed to get 3 GM stars so I could potentially replay a couple senarios, but thats it. I have played quite a few modules in that time as well, so slim pickings there as well. I do GM my fair share of senarios, but I have no intention of becoming a full time GM. Although I would travel 150 miles round trip in the past just for a game, I really don't think I would do the same to GM.

I know I am in the minority of PFS players, but I guess the question I want to ask is will there possibly some boon that allows some more replay such as if you play 100% of PFS senarios you can replay 20 and have a gm check them off as you do? I saw discussions on the boards about publishing more senarios per month, but have no idea if that went anywhere. If my time in PFS is done then I had a great time, but I would like it to last a little longer.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Melavis Clay wrote:
I have also managed to get 3 GM stars

*Garble holds up his hand and begins counting fingers*

5/5

Melavis Clay wrote:
Stuff

Go play modules and Adventure Paths for PFS credit.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Kyle Baird wrote:
Melavis Clay wrote:
Stuff
Go play modules and Adventure Paths for PFS credit.

Or maybe stop playing four times a week, since that's about the only way you'd be able to go through that many scenarios in a year.

*

Cool, thanks Mike

5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

Cool. Thanks.

Sczarni 2/5

Michael Brock wrote:
I have added modules to the reward. Enjoy!

Oh, this is good news, indeed! Now both the Demon Hunter and Golarion's Most Terrifying Librarian will get to decimate the Moonscar!

Spoiler:
Or, ya know... Die horrible, horrible, deaths. :D

Many thanks, Mike!

5/5

Hey all! The actual PFS Q&A was recorded (thanks to Lady Ophelia & Know Direction Podcast) and is available Here

Their description is *far* better than anything we have discussed so far - I am duly impressed. Fixed play-up pressure *and* the wonky Season 4 tier system all in one.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Majuba wrote:

Hey all! The actual PFS Q&A was recorded (thanks to Lady Ophelia & Know Direction Podcast) and is available Here

Their description is *far* better than anything we have discussed so far - I am duly impressed. Fixed play-up pressure *and* the wonky Season 4 tier system all in one.

The link doesn't seem to work for me. I get a "forbidden" message when I follow it.

How does one get permission or is the recording available on another site?

5/5

Mistwalker wrote:
Majuba wrote:

Know Direction Podcast Here

Link Fixed
The link doesn't seem to work for me. I get a "forbidden" message when I follow it.

My apologies - link fixed in this post (you have to include "http://") when posting links.

Also..

Terrible Transcript!:
some bolding is my emphasis

John: "Came up with a respectable compromise that meets most of the design goals for it. ... What we ended up coming up with is called "Out-of-Subtier" (OOS). The idea of OOS is that there is effectively an average between the two that lies between. In addition to addressing wealth, this also addresses what sub-tier one plays. For example, let us say we have a tier 1-5 scenario. Normally if you have people fall at level 3, they decide whether to die horrifically but make more money, or have a pretty good time and cakewalk things. Now it is going to depend on how many players you have.

If you are APL 3, and you have four players, then you will be playing the low sub-tier, w/out a four-player adjustment. If you are six players [sic], then you would be doing the high sub-tier, w/ the four player adjustment. In either case, you will be getting the out-of-subtier gold. ... That is our answer for it right now. If you fall in the natural sub-tiers, then you do those as normal. The out-of-subtier is effectively, there is no question as to what we are going to play. We feel we have created four virtual sub-tiers that people can play:

Natural Low-tier
Low-tier w/out adjustment (Four 3's)
High-tier w/adjustment down (Large group of 3's)
Natural High-tier

Q (Bakwucha (sp? - d20 radio network forums name)): "If you're level 1 with a group playing natural 4-5, what do you get?"

John: You'll get the out-of-subtier gold, which is why it's called out-of-subtier. That way, even if you're constantly following in the footsteps of a much higher power group, you won't become quite so bloated on gold.

Q (Lady Ophelia): "What happens if you choose to play down?"

John: You've used an opportune word there, "choose".

Mike: We've changed the wording from "may" to "will". It was as simple as changing one word. [paraphrase ahead] Whatever your table is, your sub-tier and adjustment is specified, not a choice.

Q (Lady Ophelia): If a table of 1's and a 5, what gold does the 5 get?

John: They don't fall into the (1-2) category. They will be getting the out-of-subtier, even though everyone else will will get 1-2. The level 3's, no matter what they do, will get the out-of-subtier gold. Which is roughly balanced between the two. We had the recommendation on the forums to just mandate how much gold they get per level. That's kinda rigid. What this does is softly reinforce that.

Q (Bakwucha): If you have a level 3, playing with five L.5's, the 3 is still getting out-of-subtier gold?

John: Yes, because the 3 is not a 4-5.

Q (Bakwucha): So in some cases the 3 is getting less gold than the original podcast proposal?

John/Mike: [paraphrase/discussion] Yes.

Mike: We're working on clear language in the guide to avoid confusion. Guide to be released (hopefully) by first Monday in August [Tomorrow].

Discussion continues with Afflictions...

Grand Lodge 4/5

So, anyone know if the "Out of sub-tier" gold would also apply to GM credit, when appropriate?

Sovereign Court 5/5

kinevon wrote:
So, anyone know if the "Out of sub-tier" gold would also apply to GM credit, when appropriate?

Can't really know until tomorrow, but since there is already a mechanic in place for how gold is given out to GM characters I would doubt that there will be a change.

Edit: Just re-read your post. How could you ever be out of tier? Let's take a 1-5 adventure. If you character is 1st,2nd, or 3rd level you get the 1-2 gold, if he is 4th or 5th you get the 4-5 gold. The level that the game was run at doesn't apply to the GM credit.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Todd Lower wrote:
kinevon wrote:
So, anyone know if the "Out of sub-tier" gold would also apply to GM credit, when appropriate?

Can't really know until tomorrow, but since there is already a mechanic in place for how gold is given out to GM characters I would doubt that there will be a change.

Edit: Just re-read your post. How could you ever be out of tier? Let's take a 1-5 adventure. If you character is 1st,2nd, or 3rd level you get the 1-2 gold, if he is 4th or 5th you get the 4-5 gold. The level that the game was run at doesn't apply to the GM credit.

I think it would be fair for a third level GM character to get the out of tier gold.

Dark Archive

What are the new playing up rules?

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

We should be finding out in today's blog. :)

Silver Crusade 4/5

Jiggy wrote:
We should be finding out in today's blog. :)

Blog? Isn't the new version of the Guide to Organized Play coming out today?

5/5 *

Guide will be released on the blog :p

Grand Lodge 4/5

When is All the Doors are Trapped being released? I seriously wanna play this one!

4/5

Madclaw wrote:
When is All the Doors are Trapped being released? I seriously wanna play this one!

Contrary to popular belief, All the Doors are Trapped has nothing to do with traps. Instead, you see, all the doors are Trapdoors.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Silver Crusade 4/5

Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

I thought that one already existed, though I haven't actually played or read Haunting of Hinojai, so I'm just going by reputation.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Fromper wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

I thought that one already existed, though I haven't actually played or read Haunting of Hinojai, so I'm just going by reputation.

The haunts aren't what kills you in that scenario.

Most of the time.

Silver Crusade 1/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

So, ummm, any ideas as to when this gloriously rewritten piece of modern literature will be released today for general consumption? Some of us have a convention to attend next week, and getting current on the rules is important!

4/5 ****

Noon PST is most likely.

Silver Crusade 1/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Pirate Rob wrote:
Noon PST is most likely.

By the Dawnflower, I will be nearly ready to leave work by then! When am I supposed to read it, if not at work?

Silver Crusade 4/5

Bear in mind that even though it'll be available for download today, it won't take effect until GenCon on August 15 (or maybe the 14th - not really clear on that yet). Until then, continue to use the old Guide.

4/5

Fromper wrote:
Bear in mind that even though it'll be available for download today, it won't take effect until GenCon on August 15 (or maybe the 14th - not really clear on that yet). Until then, continue to use the old Guide.

Based on this post, it's the 14th, but we shall see.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

It is the 14th so people can make adjustments accordingly in time to play their character at the first slot at Gen Con.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Jiggy, to easy to counter with a party of Paladins! :)

Paladins are immune to the effects of a Haunt (being immune to fear and Haunts are fear and mind effecting effects), but not the secondary effects if any. They would just rely on their great saving throws instead :)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Deanoth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Jiggy, to easy to counter with a party of Paladins! :)

Paladins are immune to the effects of a Haunt (being immune to fear and Haunts are fear and mind effecting effects), but not the secondary effects if any. They would just rely on their great saving throws instead :)

Ah, but the kicker is it's gonna be the new Intro scenario, so it's exclusively for 1st level: no Divine Grace, no Aura of Courage. >:D

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Jiggy wrote:
Deanoth wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

I'm submitting a pitch for the sequel, Every Room is a Haunt. Why use a trap when you can call it a haunt and guarantee it goes off?

;)

Jiggy, to easy to counter with a party of Paladins! :)

Paladins are immune to the effects of a Haunt (being immune to fear and Haunts are fear and mind effecting effects), but not the secondary effects if any. They would just rely on their great saving throws instead :)

Ah, but the kicker is it's gonna be the new Intro scenario, so it's exclusively for 1st level: no Divine Grace, no Aura of Courage. >:D

*scribbles down notes and checks the product calendar for openings*

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