Shivok |
Wow. I was waiting for this installment. I'm sure alot of fans, myself included could see the positive changes you all implemented in Dragon and Dungeon.
I recall hearing rumors on the old forum boards of that other company and he employees over there continued to deny it and deny it even calling people liars. It was crazy.
But in times of toughness you sometimes have to reach deep down inside, farther than you think you can go. And look what you got for it... A great product line... loyal fans that actually care about the company.
I believe as long as you do this Paizo will be great. Evolve when necessary... but never to the point where you alienate your fans.
Here's to keeping this company strong and vibrant for many more years to come.
Shivok
Dark_Mistress |
That must have sucked for Erik in James to be told congratulations you are the new Publisher and Editor-in-Chief respectively only to be told soon afterwards. Oh yeah you get to shovel dirt on the dead paper mags as we are losing them in less than a year.
I know if I was Erik I would have been banging my head on the wall at the bitter humor of life. Final get my dream job, only to have to be the one forced to end it. :)
James Sutter Contributor |
cibet44 |
Great story! Thanks for sharing it. Can't wait to read about the 4E announcement and subsequent maelstrom.
"...we decided not to tell the editorial staff about the potentially fatal blow to the company" Eeek!, classic Management by Manipulation and in the end the manipulation was rewarded by faithful loyalty from the manipulated. Woah, heavy stuff. Soul warping indeed. :(
Kellendil |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just wanted to stop by and say:
Thank you!
Thank you for sticking it out, thank you for making Pathfinder a reality.
I played D&D ever since I was little, and while I had a long break for school etc, Pathfinder was what was waiting for me when I got back.
Since that day, I've more or less bought everything you make, and I even resorted to Ebay to get hold of all the RotR volumes.
I love your products, and I love your company. I love that it feels like we, the fans, get an insight into your buisiness, your way of doing things.
I wholeheartedly believe I've become a better GM thanks to Paizo, and I KNOW we've had tons and tons of fun with what you're continuing to give us.
ATM I'm anxiously avaiting the RotR re-release (It's my 30ieth birthday-gift for myself!) and my group is waiting as well, as we've postponed concluding the AP in anticipation of this revamped edtion.
I thank you once more for all you've done in making my life more fun, and I wish you all the best for the coming 10 years. I hope I'll be along for the ride :)
F. Wesley Schneider Contributor |
Lisa Stevens CEO |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
"...we decided not to tell the editorial staff about the potentially fatal blow to the company" Eeek!, classic Management by Manipulation and in the end the manipulation was rewarded by faithful loyalty from the manipulated. Woah, heavy stuff. Soul warping indeed. :(
That is not how we normally do business here at Paizo. We include our employees in key decisions as quickly as possible. However, in this one instance, we were caught off guard. If we had told everybody about the cancellation without having a clue about what we were going to do about it, there very well could have been a catastrophic mass exodus. So management needed to get its ducks in a row before we could spill the beans. It was far, far from manipulation, trust me. If we were the manipulative types, we wouldn't have the loyal employees that we have.
-Lisa
F. Wesley Schneider Contributor |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
"...we decided not to tell the editorial staff about the potentially fatal blow to the company" Eeek!, classic Management by Manipulation and in the end the manipulation was rewarded by faithful loyalty from the manipulated. Woah, heavy stuff. Soul warping indeed. :(
None of us ever took it like that.
Lisa, Vic, Jeff, and Erik have earned all of our trust a hundred times over and we knew even then (as we know now) that one of their primary objectives is to do right by the staff. That they took the time to chart a direction with the possibility that we would all have jobs a month later rather than throwing up their hands was... huge, incredibly huge, just the biggest thing.
And it wasn't easy for them to keep it to themselves either. I've never met a group with such an immunity to ulcers. But when the time did come and they had a plan in place they were at least something like comfortable with and relatively confidant of, they presented each team with the bad news, but also the good. It made the blow far easier - which for some of us was having life-long dreams taken away - and got many of us excited for the next new adventure.
Dennis Baker Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
William Ronald |
This is a great story, and I think is something that should be shared with business school students. Very often, the measure of a leader is how that leaders copes with adversity. Lisa Stevens and Erik Mona were definitely put through the wringer but emerged with a successful company that was ready for even more changes.
The Rot Grub |
This is a gripping account -- thanks so much for writing these.
I am reading through the Savage Tide Adventure Path right now and am having a blast. It seems like you guys were responding to the news by going out with a bang.
This blog gives me chills because this is the birth of Paizo. And the even more dramatic events are yet to come!!
Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me Wizards' thinking when they cancelled the magazines? Did it cost them money to license out the magazines? I don't get it!
Reckless |
This is a gripping account -- thanks so much for writing these.
I am reading through the Savage Tide Adventure Path right now and am having a blast. It seems like you guys were responding to the news by going out with a bang.
This blog gives me chills because this is the birth of Paizo. And the even more dramatic events are yet to come!!
Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me Wizards' thinking when they cancelled the magazines? Did it cost them money to license out the magazines? I don't get it!
Essentially, they wanted to bring the licenses back in-house, and integrate them into their digital content. They wanted to be able to produce articles instead of full print magazines, taking advantage of the online subscription model. Their concept was that they would compile these weekly articles into a digital "magazine" roughly monthly, and that this would be the future of the "magazines". I believe they also thought that this would enable the articles to be fully integrated into their character builder software, which is commonly accepted as one of the best innovations of the 4th edition.
Someone with more 4e knowledge (like Scott Betts) could tell you how well or poorly they succeeded at this. I only followed their initial free offerings, deciding they were little more than the free articles and adventure WOTC had on their website in the 3.0/3.5 days and were not an acceptable substitute for the work produced by Paizo.
Dennis Baker Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me Wizards' thinking when they cancelled the magazines? Did it cost them money to license out the magazines? I don't get it!
My understanding is WotC wanted to sell it as part of the larger "Digital Initiative". Essentially a paywalled resource for D&D gaming, where you would get game rules updates, articles, blogs, etc. More or less everything you might need for gaming would be chased down at one site.
BigWeather |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think the cancellation of those two magazines (though I must admit to being more partial to Dungeon -- I still have all 150 issues and a handful of module rejection letters from Roger E. Moore) is one of the biggest blunders WotC has made and a true blow to the hobby.
I had always dreamed of being published in Dungeon and the news of the cancellation hit hard. Not having time to muster up a proposal (it had been almost two decades since my last one) I decided the prudent course of action was to consider getting a letter published in Dungeon "good enough" to fulfill my dream (when the bar's too high, lower the bar!). You guys ended up publishing my letter in #150, the couple of copies of which I treasure to this day. Thanks!
There is consolation that Pathfinder rose from those ashes but I still wish the two publications were around today. Great blog and thanks for letting us peek behind the curtain!
Steve Geddes |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The blogs have nearly reached the point where I became an ardent Paizo fan (2008/9). Although it's a minority view, I wasnt particularly enamored by Dragon/Dungeon magazines - so for my part the way things turned out was a spectacularly good thing. I'm much happier with you guys doing what you're doing now than with what you were doing then.
What is clear, both from these blogs and from all the interactions I've had with Paizo in the last three or four years, is that the owners and managers are not only smart business people but also ethical and decent. I'd echo the comments above - having taught a few business courses, I think there's a significant number of "future business leaders" who could learn a phenomenal amount from people like you. It's really quite inspiring and (in some hard-to-explain way) reading accounts like this makes me feel part of the whole thing (even though I hadnt bought a single thing from you at this stage in the narrative!)
I hope that the heartache and stress of these early years has been more than countered by your ongoing, spectacular successes.
Charlie Brooks RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32 |
In terms of RPG history, WotC's decision to pull the magazines is a major turning point in the direction of the industry. That Paizo managed to weather that storm and come up with what is currently the top-selling RPG out there is an amazing feat. WotC made a huge miscalculation and wound up creating their own biggest competitors.
Jason Bulmahn Director of Games |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If I recall correctly, the door to the pit was only closed those two times. The day I learned that we were losing the magazines was one of the saddest in my life. I had been reading Dragon since I was a kid. The magazine launched the same month I was born (under the name Dragon anyway). When I got the job to be Managing Editor, I thought it was fate. I had hoped to one day become Editor in Chief. Ah well, it was not to be, but in the end, I think it all turned out for the best.
MicMan |
+1
When I received the notice that my subsricption of Dungeon was to be discontinued I was actuall really sad, because
1. this magazine was D&D for me more than the rulebooks
2. I saw what Paizo had done with Dungeon and I feared that WotC was unable to pick it up where Paizo left it
Imagine my joy when I cracked the first Rise of the Runelords module, read it and felt that this is exactly how I hoped it would turn out.
Gorbacz |
The Rot Grub wrote:Sorry for my ignorance, but can someone explain to me Wizards' thinking when they cancelled the magazines? Did it cost them money to license out the magazines? I don't get it!My understanding is WotC wanted to sell it as part of the larger "Digital Initiative". Essentially a paywalled resource for D&D gaming, where you would get game rules updates, articles, blogs, etc. More or less everything you might need for gaming would be chased down at one site.
The Digital Initiative was supposed to be a subscription-based service that would offer you Dungeon and Dragon in digital form, virtual tabletop, rules database, character manager, monster builder, adventure creator, Gleemax social website, online games, and instant coffee. The idea was for it to serve all your gaming needs and never ever have you forced to venture outside of Wizardofthecoastlandia for your gaming needs.
Things didn't go exactly as planned. The VTT and Gleemax died a spectacular and fiery death (the former never materialized due to a perfect storm of internal and external flustercucks, the latter hang around for a year pretending to be gaming Facebook but never really getting anywhere before being quietly taken down), Dungeon and Dragon became a shadow of their former selves, and in the end it boiled down to char builder, rules database and monster customizer (of course, everything for 4E only).
gbonehead Owner - House of Books and Games LLC |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The main thing I remember is unbridled anger at the sheer stupidity of taking the only things that seemed to be keeping D&D alive (Dungeon and the Dragon), taking 'em out behind the barn, and putting a bullet in their collective heads.
It still makes no sense to me. Sure, I understand what they thought they were going to accomplish, I'm just mystified why they thought it would work.
It felt like a big one finger salute to all their customers.
The Rot Grub |
The Digital Initiative was supposed to be a subscription-based service that would offer you Dungeon and Dragon in digital form, virtual tabletop, rules database, character manager, monster builder, adventure creator, Gleemax social website, online games, and instant coffee. The idea was for it to serve all your gaming needs and never ever have you forced to venture outside of Wizardofthecoastlandia for your gaming needs.
Things didn't go exactly as planned. The VTT and Gleemax died a spectacular and fiery death (the former never materialized due to a perfect storm of internal and external flustercucks, the latter hang around for a year pretending to be gaming Facebook but never really getting anywhere before being quietly taken down), Dungeon and Dragon became a shadow of their former selves, and in the end it boiled down to char builder, rules database and monster customizer (of course, everything for 4E only).
Thanks for the answers, folks. So I suppose they calculated that licensing out the magazines was a lost opportunity, and by reimagining them as a monthly expansion of the WotC rulebooks they could funnel people into the digital subscription. But it seems like they forgot that people valued what Paizo had brought to the magazines, and that without Paizo the magazines wouldn't be quite the same.
And besides: I like cherishing a physical copy in my hands. And I'm also a sucker for good page design.
In the late 1980s, I wasn't actively playing tabletop games, but I bought Dragon magazine religiously in the late 1980s for their computer game review articles. So I'm kind of sad that Dungeon & Dragon magazines are gone. But at the same time, we never would have gotten Golarion and the Pathfinder Adventure Paths otherwise.
I don't know if the blog will get into this, but I'd also love to hear from about how, once you were able to publish your own magazine, the doors might have opened up artistically for you guys. I really appreciate this blog because it's clear that not only were the magazines a paying job, but also your dream jobs and where you could show your creativity. And what was it about this crazy new "Pathfinder" project that was different from Dungeon and Dragon magazines and got you excited to write for it?
Thanks again for this retrospective.
Kvantum |
2006 was really the year that sealed things for me as a Paizo fan, OK, fanatic. I've run Age of Worms to its conclusion, as well as the Shackled City hardbound. They are some of the best-written, most enjoyable experiences I have ever had in tabletop RPGs in the 20+ years I've been playing.
It may have been one of the worst years for the company, one that left it without its entire remaining underpinning, but it also was the year that cemented in place something else that could hold Paizo up and let it on to, well, all that's happened in the last six years: fan loyalty. The kind of loyalty that a corporate entity just can't even comprehend, let alone earn.
Lisa Stevens CEO |
7 people marked this as a favorite. |
It may have been one of the worst years for the company, one that left it without its entire remaining underpinning, but it also was the year that cemented in place something else that could hold Paizo up and let it on to, well, all that's happened in the last six years: fan loyalty. The kind of loyalty that a corporate entity just can't even comprehend, let alone earn.
Amen! Our customers are our secret weapon. Without the loyalty and support of the folks who buy Paizo's products, we would be nothing. As Paizo maneuvered itself through all these trials and tribulations, it was our customers that pulled us back up, believed in us when we had to make changes, and supported us with their hard-earned money, allowing us to build Paizo into the company that it is today. That will become so much more obvious once we get into the 2007-2009 blogs. The years of great change. :)
-Lisa
Marc Radle |
2006 was really the year that sealed things for me as a Paizo fan, OK, fanatic. I've run Age of Worms to its conclusion, as well as the Shackled City hardbound. They are some of the best-written, most enjoyable experiences I have ever had in tabletop RPGs in the 20+ years I've been playing.
It may have been one of the worst years for the company, one that left it without its entire remaining underpinning, but it also was the year that cemented in place something else that could hold Paizo up and let it on to, well, all that's happened in the last six years: fan loyalty. The kind of loyalty that a corporate entity just can't even comprehend, let alone earn.
Agreed. I'd read Dragon since I was a kid in the late '70s and early '80s. When Paizo first took over the magazine(s) I took little notice ... as long as Dragon continued to arrive in my mailbox each month I was happy.
2006, the pulling of the magazines and the way Paizo conducted itself as a result really turned me into a HUGE fan of Paizo.
Shem |
WOTC did not only cancel the licenses for the magazines during this time but they pulled back the license for Ravenloft and Dragonlance. I think this was all partly a move to be able to release 4e stuff for those settings and to make everything D&D 4e in some way.
I was not only unhappy that Dragon and Dungeon went away but upset about the loss of other licenses. That whole year was a tough transition for Paizo and fans alike.
The change to 4e also stopped Necromancer Games in its tracks and now has spawned the Dungeon Crawl Classic RPG as Goodman Games decided to no longer support 4e.
And this next couple of years will see even more changes in the industry.
Lisa Stevens CEO |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
WOTC did not only cancel the licenses for the magazines during this time
Just a quick note of correction here. WotC didn't cancel the licenses for Dragon and Dungeon. The licenses themselves reached their expiration date. They did decide not to renew the licenses once they had run out. I think that is a big distinction. Canceling a license is the act of taking a license away from somebody before its term had run its course. Sometimes you have to do that as a licensor. WotC didn't do that for Dragon and Dungeon. They just didn't give us a new license to make the magazines.
-Lisa
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Wander Weir |
For all my disappointment with WotC over the years in regards to some of the decisions they've made, including that of not renewing the licenses, I agree that they deserve a great deal of respect and appreciation for not only giving Paizo lots of notice that the licenses weren't being renewed but also in extending the license for a few extra month. They didn't have to do that and if they didn't things would likely have been a lot different.
They've earned my appreciation for that.
Love the retrospective post, as always.
James Jacobs Creative Director |
6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Dungeon was (and still is) my favorite print magazine. I remember back when it was announced in, I believe, Dragon #111 or thereabouts, and immediately started sending in adventure proposals at the age of 11 or so. "Scepter of the Underworld" was my first published credit—it got into Dungeon #12 (aka the one with the green cows).
That bit of proof that you could make money doing something you love hit me at a pretty impressionable age of 13 or so, and it's what made me want to some day work as a game designer. I went to college and majored in creative writing, then moved 800 some miles north after college in order to be nearby a game company I admired so that I might get a job there. When that company bought D&D... I was pretty stoked. Eventually I got a job there, and eventually I moved on from WotC to work at Paizo, and eventually got to be Editor in Chief of my favorite Magazine for a year.
My sentiments more or less exactly echo Erik Mona's. I'm immensely proud to have had a chance to work on Dungeon magazine, and I miss it like hell to this day.
Wolfthulhu |
cibet44 wrote:"...we decided not to tell the editorial staff about the potentially fatal blow to the company" Eeek!, classic Management by Manipulation and in the end the manipulation was rewarded by faithful loyalty from the manipulated. Woah, heavy stuff. Soul warping indeed. :(That is not how we normally do business here at Paizo. We include our employees in key decisions as quickly as possible. However, in this one instance, we were caught off guard. If we had told everybody about the cancellation without having a clue about what we were going to do about it, there very well could have been a catastrophic mass exodus. So management needed to get its ducks in a row before we could spill the beans. It was far, far from manipulation, trust me. If we were the manipulative types, we wouldn't have the loyal employees that we have.
-Lisa
So, is THAT where those friggen ducks came from. Always getting out of their rows, creating chaos and confusion. I think you need better trained ducks. Or better yet, platypi!
Wolfthulhu |
Dungeon was (and still is) my favorite print magazine. I remember back when it was announced in, I believe, Dragon #111 or thereabouts, and immediately started sending in adventure proposals at the age of 11 or so. "Scepter of the Underworld" was my first published credit—it got into Dungeon #12 (aka the one with the green cows).
That bit of proof that you could make money doing something you love hit me at a pretty impressionable age of 13 or so, and it's what made me want to some day work as a game designer. I went to college and majored in creative writing, then moved 800 some miles north after college in order to be nearby a game company I admired so that I might get a job there. When that company bought D&D... I was pretty stoked. Eventually I got a job there, and eventually I moved on from WotC to work at Paizo, and eventually got to be Editor in Chief of my favorite Magazine for a year.
My sentiments more or less exactly echo Erik Mona's. I'm immensely proud to have had a chance to work on Dungeon magazine, and I miss it like hell to this day.
I was SO going to bring my 'green cow' issue for you to sign this year... :(
PaizoCon 2013!
PJ |
James Jacobs wrote:Dungeon was (and still is) my favorite print magazine. I remember back when it was announced in, I believe, Dragon #111 or thereabouts, and immediately started sending in adventure proposals at the age of 11 or so. "Scepter of the Underworld" was my first published credit—it got into Dungeon #12 (aka the one with the green cows).
That bit of proof that you could make money doing something you love hit me at a pretty impressionable age of 13 or so, and it's what made me want to some day work as a game designer. I went to college and majored in creative writing, then moved 800 some miles north after college in order to be nearby a game company I admired so that I might get a job there. When that company bought D&D... I was pretty stoked. Eventually I got a job there, and eventually I moved on from WotC to work at Paizo, and eventually got to be Editor in Chief of my favorite Magazine for a year.
My sentiments more or less exactly echo Erik Mona's. I'm immensely proud to have had a chance to work on Dungeon magazine, and I miss it like hell to this day.
I was SO going to bring my 'green cow' issue for you to sign this year... :(
PaizoCon 2013!
I'm already a huge fan -- I didn't think it could grow any larger! Great installment. I love Paizo!
Michael Dean |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Great entry. Having grown up reading Dragon since around 1981, the loss of both Dragon (and Dungeon) hit me pretty hard. I had just gotten used to this "Paizo" outfit I never heard of printing "my" magazine. (Paizo? Sounded like an italian takeout restaurant. Paizo Pizza!).
But I liked them. They made it easy to reup my subscription on-line, the mags looked great. And then...I was stunned when I realized they were going to be gone. And then when Paizo announced the monthly Adventure Path subscription, I must admit I was skeptical. $20 a month almost for a magazine I used to get for a fraction of that? Fortunately, you guys offered to carry over whatever was left on the old subscription, so I decided to use the couple of months I had to check it out.
Looking at my bookshelves now, loaded with every PF core book, module, and AP; it's hard to believe I ever had any doubts. It certainly reassures me now that WOTC is coming out with a new edition that Paizo will keep ahead of the curve and stay at the top of their game.
Wolfgang Baur Kobold Press |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah. I was not a fan of the decision to go to online form, though I think in some ways digital content has come a long way since then.
Lisa, Erik, James, and the whole crew handled themselves exceptionally well in what must have been an extremely difficult time. And the silver lining, as several people have pointed out, has been extremely worthwhile for gamers everywhere. Beware of idle hands forged in the crucible of magazine publishing, when those hands are turned to creating great gaming material. :)